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eCat on Dutch TV

September 30, 2011

Those of us interested in the eCat (and many who passionately follow the subject) are puzzled by its lack of media attention. One way or another, this is likely to change in the near future. The latest addition to the small crop of mainstream documentary makers giving it space comes from Holland With thanks to Peswiki for the lead). There are a few interviews in English and the programme is not dedicated to Andrea Rossi’s eCat. Nevertheless, it is a significant and serious snip and perhaps a sign of things to come. The tone is cautious and, at this stage, exactly as it should be.

Unless you speak Dutch (in which case we’d love to hear from you in the comments section!) the most interesting part comes at 2020 via an interview with Professor Kullander.

The following transcript is from that interview:


Since I don’t know exactly what’s in the box – I know it is a Nickel powder,  I know it is Hydrogen but it’s also something else which we were not told what it is. I just calculate how much energy you can get with a chemical reaction and this would clearly be impossible to be reproduced chemically. For example to produce the same mount of energy you would need 3,000 cubic centimetre oil – 3 litre oil – and the box is only 50cm3 so I exclude any chemical process to take place. And the only other alternative would be nuclear. So my physicist side tells me that this cannot happen. On the other hand I have been there. I have witnessed 40 litre  of water goes through and becomes vapour.and I have seen it We have measured the water. I trusted several of colleagues in Bologna who have followed it also and who have repeatedly verified this so there are two sides to it. So either I have to understand some new physics that goes on inside this box or there will be something wrong in the measurements. So something additional of knowledge to me have to come before I can be completely sure and I think it is so radical and changes so much the way people can consume energy in the future that you must be 100, 110, 120% sure that this is correct.


Cold fusion starts around 14.15 and Rossi around 2015.

To hardened skeptics, the scientist’s words are likely to sound like backpedaling and to the eternal optimist he will be seen as cheer-leading Rossi but I think that a careful study of this segment is instructive and highlights one of the many reasons that this thing is so damned interesting. He is not reflecting the cynic’s view but that of a cautious observer. What he has seen and measured impressed him and confounds current understanding. He acknowledges that more data is needed and that trust has to be removed from the quation but he does not appear to be a man trying to squirm away from previously rash statements. From all reports, he and Essen maintain their active interest in Rossi’s eCat and this interview reminds us why.

Posted by on September 30, 2011. Filed under Media & Blogs,Videos. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

21 Responses to eCat on Dutch TV

  1. Ransompw

    September 30, 2011 at 1:16 pm

    The lack of media coverage in this country is really remarkable considering the significance of the issue. While I am still on the fence regarding Rossi, I am becoming more and more convinced that NiH LENR is the real deal. If Rossi’s test next week is positive, the world may wake up this October to a future drastically different then the one they knew in September. A world of potentially cheap abundant energy, a world where the govenor of limits has been removed and the possibilities for the future are truely unlimited.

    Of course, in this age of pessimism such an event must seem impossible to many. For those effected by the pessimism, the doomsayers, the glass half empty folks, the pseudoskeptics, such an event will shake the very foundation of their world and I’m afraid some (not all) may have to be dragged into the new age of optimism kicking and screaming. But they too will find a better world when they enter. Such is the magnitude of the events we are about to witness if Rossi is successful. For the few who have followed this drama, let’s sit back grab our popcorn and prepare for an interesting October.

  2. Richard Binns

    September 30, 2011 at 1:20 pm

    I am among thousands around the world fascinated by this story but have a question which I posted on but was not answered by Mr Rossi. Lets assume that the device works great as it appears to me and many others to do. How can Rossi claim to have it ready to sell in November 2011 when it has not been through product certification of any kind which is required to approve any new equipment before it goes to market – certainly even more stringent requirements if the word nuclear is involved?

    • Ben

      September 30, 2011 at 2:37 pm

      Rossi claims that the certification is already ongoing. Defkalion supposedly also has been undergoing certification with the Greek government and states that they will have some announcements to make in the “coming weeks.” No reliable verification of any of these claims has yet been obtained.

    • CM Edwards

      September 30, 2011 at 4:36 pm

      Because the needed certifications can vary from venue to venue, it’s not unheard of to pursue required certifications for custom-built equipment only after it has been established that the customer will pay for it.

      That said, European nations tend to be somewhat strict about pressure equipment. Most won’t even allow an uncertified boiler into the country without special waivers. If he intends to keep selling them, Rossi would be well advised to pursue certification to the PED or some other internationally recognized construction code for pressure equipment.

      • Peter Roe

        September 30, 2011 at 4:56 pm

        … or move rapidly to a Mark 3(?) variant that uses unpressurised high temperature liquid coolants such as polyalkylene glycol or silicone oil, for the ‘domestic’ versions. Defkalion mentioned such developments in their blog, much of which made good engineering sense.

  3. popeye

    September 30, 2011 at 3:19 pm

    The odd thing about Kullander’s comments is that he does not address the single-most often raised objection to the demo he witnessed: that he claims that 40 L of water is converted to vapor, but does not give credible evidence that this is the case. Visual inspection and measurement of relative humidity is completely inappropriate for the task. My guess is that admitting this failure reveals his incompetence, and no one likes to do that.

  4. H. Visscher

    September 30, 2011 at 3:57 pm

    I am Dutch, I will look at it later today.

    • H. Visscher

      September 30, 2011 at 7:13 pm

      I have just looked at the video and the Dutch comments are not that revealing. First they give some background information on nuclear fusion and the four states of matter (solid, liquid, gas and plasma)
      That Dutch commentator (Tony Donné) is a physicist who works on the ITER project. He is very negative about Rossi. He says that Rossi is not a scientist and does not follow scientific methodology. He is also very negative about the Journal of Nuclear Physics. For the General Fusion Project, however, he is moderately positive. It is scientific sound but the timeline is very optimistic.

      Noteworthy to mention is that the programme had tried numerous times for Rossi to give an interview and to get their hands on an E-Cat. However, Rossi declined each and every time.

      • H. Visscher

        September 30, 2011 at 7:57 pm

        I forgot to mention that the Duch physicist claims that some people on the Journal of Nuclear Physics don’t even excist!

        • Admin

          September 30, 2011 at 11:55 pm

          lol… Thanks,H. V. That’s extraordinary. I appreciate you letting us know.


        • Sebastian

          October 2, 2011 at 1:48 pm

          He is thinking of Prof. George Kelly (University of New Hampshire – USA).
          This guy really doesn’t exist.
          Rossi says that he doesn’t know him very well and met him several years ago. Only he knows who he is talking about.

        • maryyugo

          October 3, 2011 at 7:28 am

          The “Journal of Nuclear Physics” is a pompous, pretentious name for a silly and nonsense filled blog. Anyone can do the same with a simple sign on name and password. It’s not a journal and it is not properly reviewed by qualified people.

          “Rossi says that he doesn’t know him very well and met him several years ago.”

          Great endorsement for a peer reviewer. Who’s next to peer review articles for the “J of NP”? The guy who picks up the trash at the U of B labs?

  5. maryyugo

    September 30, 2011 at 5:27 pm

    Kullander and Essen should be excluded from any further evaluation of the E-cat because they (and Lewan) are clearly incompetent. On the other hand, I’d like to see Dr. Levi involved and I’d like to see him be allowed to repeat his previous liquid flow 18 hour experiment with proper calibration and recording of data so that he could be confident of and publish the results. Done with independent scientists watching over Levi’s shoulder, that is all that would be needed to prove the E-cat works. I have no idea why this has not been done in all this time. It takes less than a week and costs practically nothing. It’s simply mind boggling that if the E-cat works they have not done this.

    • CM Edwards

      October 3, 2011 at 12:09 am

      There is insufficient information to comment on the competency as scientists of any of the researchers previously allowed public evaluations of the e-cat, except to state the obvious: clearly none of them were familiar with steam piping or other steam equipment engineering. It is equally obvious that, with the possible exception of Levi, none of them consulted with anyone who was.

      There should be every effort to remedy this in the coming experimental trial, or it will likely just yield more of the same ambiguous results.

      I say that this does not reflect on their competency because controlled scientific experiments in thermodynamics are not typically conducted in the fashion we’ve seen. Even a field tech with a well known and standardized device will typically cycle the equipment they’re testing a few times to ensure that it’s working, because that’s what’s needed when the temperature varies all over the scale. More rigorous testing requires even more iterations to refine the measurements. The fact that the measurements to date have not been sufficiently rigorous only reflect the lack of sufficient iterations – which is due to the imposed test conditions, not the skill of the technicians.

      That said, it has been made clear that outside inspectors won’t have all month to schedule their tests. They’ve got to get someone on their team who has done this sort of thing before. Otherwise, we can only expect more fumbling. As it is, they would still be unable to cover all desirable tests in the time allotted.

    • Haldor

      October 3, 2011 at 3:54 pm

      This is truly hillarious:
      Quote MaryYugo
      “Kullander and Essen should be excluded from any further evaluation of the E-cat because they (and Lewan) are clearly incompetent. ”

      Huge claim Mary and Yugo because who are you really to make such statement. What makes you so competent to accept such a enormous NON-argument from you?

      Strange person(s) you are!

      • maryyugo

        October 3, 2011 at 6:42 pm

        It has nothing to do with WHO I am or WHO they are. It’s about WHAT they did. Who’s on first?

        • Haldor

          October 4, 2011 at 7:35 am

          You don’t know what they did exactly, nobody does. You base you “incompetent” argument on insufficient data.
          So why should I take you serious here, some of your arguments are solid this one here is totally out of line.
          Because you are anonymous it has no added value to the whole discussion to judge people this way and meanwhile remaining safely anonymous.

          It is Krivit style blogging, but from him we know who he is, from you we don not know. Calling people incompetent based upon what you know now is a NON-argument and puts you on the higher level of incompetency because you remain anonymous.
          While Lewan, Kullander and Essen did take the risk to dare to study the workings of the E-Cat, putting there names in the frontline.

          • maryyugo

            October 4, 2011 at 5:02 pm

            You’re right– I don’t know that K&E and Lewan are themselves incompetent. I do know that they tested the E-cat completely and absurdly incompetently. I can say that because I know how and have clearly explained how to test an E-cat.

            Levi is incompetent or negligent, not sure which, in a different way. Clearly, he does know how to test an E-cat. But given the chance to do it, he performed a sloppy experiment, didn’t calibrate his equipment properly and didn’t keep adequate records. Further and most difficult to understand, he never repeated his experiment!

            You don’t have to know who I am to follow the argument. You do have to understand a little bit about the science of heat transfer and fluid flow which clearly, most of the people here do not. And if K&E and Lewan do, they sure didn’t show it. Levi clearly does but he doesn’t seem to be able to do another test. All of this is, of course, very frustrating. And Rossi rejects any decent question about it on his blog while he publishes the weird rantings of fruit cakes. Again: not encouraging about the reality of the E-cat.

  6. Brad Arnold

    October 3, 2011 at 7:20 am

    I find it funny that people vary as to what will prove to them the E-Cat is legitimate. Some take the public demonstrations and testimony by experts as convincing, and others are waiting for the “silver bullet” test that will prove once and for all without doubt that it works as advertised. Some people’s skepticism seems to be a cover for cynicism and obtuse.

    As far as why the mass media still hasn’t picked up this story, think of them as guardians of the holy narrative. The current narrative is that the economy sucks and Obama might not get re-elected. It would be very confusing to a lot of people if that well established narrative was contradicted by a revolutionary new clean energy technology emerging. In fact, expect the first few stories by the mass media to be overly skeptical ones that give the impression that it is all a fake, because that is what their narrative demands. When the mass media finally realizes the significance of the E-Cat and LENR, that narrative will have to change, which will be a sea change that won’t happen abruptly.

    • popeye

      October 3, 2011 at 8:29 am

      > “It would be very confusing to a lot of people if that well established narrative was contradicted by a revolutionary new clean energy technology emerging. In fact, expect the first few stories by the mass media to be overly skeptical ones that give the impression that it is all a fake, because that is what their narrative demands. When the mass media finally realizes the significance of the E-Cat and LENR, that narrative will have to change, which will be a sea change that won’t happen abruptly.”

      Check the papers in the spring of 1989 to see how completely wrong you are. At the beginning, headlines screamed that a new clean and abundant energy source had been discovered. There was no fear of contradicting an established narrative; they were overly optimistic if anything, not overly skeptical; and it was abrupt. When they finally realized the non-significance of cold fusion, the skeptical articles started to come out.

    • maryyugo

      October 4, 2011 at 5:07 pm

      “As far as why the mass media still hasn’t picked up this story, think of them as guardians of the holy narrative. ”

      The mass media will pick up the Rossi story once if becomes of more general interest, either as a success or as an elaborate scam. At the moment, Rossi hasn’t done enough to rise to a position of significance for the average reporter — even for the exceptional one. All of the experiments done so far on the E-cat do not rise above the level of the usual free energy scammers. Those don’t make it to the news media because if they did, the clutter would be gigantic and nobody could find the real news. Want an example? Look at where there is NOTHING but bullshit and scams. Occasionally Sterling publishes an isolated article which is interesting but it has to be by accident and it can always be found also elsewhere.

      Local papers and TV reports apparently did report the news of the various press conferences held by Defkalion and Rossi. And of course the Swedish internet technical news has carried the full, if mostly erroneous, story.