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Exciting eCatNews

December 16, 2015

The following list details recent developments destined to bring the eCat to a mass-market, world-changing reality:

1:

 

 

 

 

Posted by on December 16, 2015. Filed under Uncategorized. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

2,832 Responses to Exciting eCatNews

  1. MaxS

    April 2, 2016 at 6:23 am

    So we are down to 7 days, right? But maybe not…
    Now, here is a good one: Brian Ahern accuses Rossi of fraud. He wrote an open letter:

    Constantly performing a bad behavior and expecting a different outcome is the definition of insanity.
    The LENR community must recall that Andrea Rossi is a well-practiced convict plying his trade. He has been claiming outputs one million-fold higher than all other LENR efforts. Yet, after six years of such claims there has never been an independent test. A big lie is easier to promote than a small one. The Lugano test in 2014 was perhaps the best magic show of the 21st century. Rossi convinced the Swedish scientists that thermocouples and water flow calorimetry were unnecessary to verify his claims. Those scientists are rightfully ashamed of themselves and have remained silent of the report. They should confess to temporary insanity. Or as a minimum they should offer an explanation for why the wasted the funds provided by ELFORSK.
    I predicted that the ERV would be a problem. Rossi admitted paying for this INDEPENDENT TEST. Yet he will not divulge:
    A. the ERV person
    B. His location
    C. His report
    D. The customer
    E. The E-Cat location
    F. Operational data
    Hoping that he has not fooled us again is a pathetic emotional response to the great impresario. The hopeful LENR folks are enabling the bad behavior. His suggestion of delaying the release until Stockholm is just another delay tactic that he has employed artfully for the past six years.”

    Source: https://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg108713.html

    • Pweet

      April 2, 2016 at 3:25 pm

      Tut tut tut! Details details,…
      Don’t get bogged down in petty details.
      Just sit back, nibble on some more popcorn and watch the show.
      And make sure you don’t leave now because we’re just about to get to the exciting bit. The magician is going to disappear from the stage with a big bag of cash.

      • maxs

        April 2, 2016 at 5:24 pm

        yeah. Beer is already in the fridge…..and pop corn ready.

  2. MaxS

    April 2, 2016 at 6:35 am

    Hey Prakash,
    how do you find Brian Ahern´s comment related to when Rossi would release the report of the 1 year operation

    His suggestion of delaying the release until Stockholm

    This would blow our Apr8 prediction…..
    And besides, while being in Stockholm, the great genius could pick up two Nobel prizes on the fly. The one for physics and the one for peace. They just need to align their schedules accordingly.

    • Tony2

      April 2, 2016 at 3:04 pm

      Max,

      This is about the time when the Prakash’s of the world leave our comforting fold. They prefer to lick their wounds in private.

      Tony2

      PS- another setup fog you.

      • Tony2

        April 2, 2016 at 3:11 pm

        I meant to say another set up for Prakash. BA’s condemnation of The Inventor has me so upset I can’t concentrate!

        Tony2

    • Prakash

      April 2, 2016 at 9:55 pm

      I’m not going anywhere except to cash my fat royalties checks. With all the money in going to be making I’ll come find all you pseudoskeptics and then we’ll have a chat, face to face. 🙂

      • Frank

        April 3, 2016 at 12:29 am

        Great! – You surely appreciate then that with the help of the sceptics you were able buy your distribution license (or whatever it is for what you wanna cash in royalties) dirt cheap – because the sceptics discredited Rossi’s absurd claims, isn’t it?

        Hope you will remember the support from the sceptics and pay for the beer every time you meet one.

  3. Mark

    April 2, 2016 at 10:36 pm

    I hope that Rossi sues you pseudoskeptics for continuing to call him a fraud. If he is going to sue, it will probably be once there is a decent market penetration so that it will make it difficult for you people to argue that you have not committed libel. I think that’s his plan that he talked about – and then he will use the money for cancer research.

    • Prakash

      April 2, 2016 at 11:41 pm

      Rossi’s not going to waste his time.

      • Mary Yugo

        April 3, 2016 at 12:26 am

        Why not? He already wasted an entire year, if you believe him, holed up in a silly stinking ship container with a collection of non working junk!

    • NTAK

      April 3, 2016 at 1:43 am

      How could he sue us for telling the truth?

      You do know that he was convicted of fraud and was prison for years… right?

      • Mark

        April 3, 2016 at 4:03 pm

        Any bonehead who understands the context understands that you people think that his E-Cat is also a fraud. If you were to try to pull a trick on the judge or the jury by trying to argue that you were only talking about something that happened decades ago, then it might net you some punitive damages, on top of the normal damages.

    • maxs

      April 3, 2016 at 5:00 am

      Bye the way, Brian Ahern is hardly a skeptic. He is a long time LENR researcher. He also thinks Rossi is fraud. See vortex discussion (link posted above)

      • Mark

        April 3, 2016 at 4:04 pm

        Ahern may get his ass sued, as well.

    • maxs

      April 3, 2016 at 6:02 am

      Mark,
      interesting website, bye the way, your personal link to your blog. Embracing Hitler and stuff.

      • Mark

        April 3, 2016 at 3:57 pm

        Yeah, maxs, you’re the exact kind of dude that I was complaining about. I will reiterate what I posted in the Hitler post, along with the part that you left out, probably intentionally. I agree with Adolf Hitler that the building and maintaining of freeways is a good idea. Do you, maxs, disagree? Do you think that the building and maintaining of freeways is a bad thing just because Adolf Hitler thought that it was a good thing?

        • MaxS

          April 5, 2016 at 9:43 am

          Not quite right. The facts are
          1. Planning and construction of freeways in Germany started even before Hitler came to power, in the Weimar republic. During that time, Hitler´s Nazi party opposed the building of freeways. So, it was not Hitler´s idea in the first place.
          2. at a later stage, prisoners and Jewish forced laborers were sent to work in autobahn construction because the regular workers were fighting in the war. Also, child labor was involved.

          • Mark

            April 5, 2016 at 5:52 pm

            So? Hitler still supported freeways, at least at one point in his life. What are you babbling about?

          • maxs

            April 6, 2016 at 9:09 am

            Actually, do you think anybody takes you serious? Just look at your website (https://pissedthefuckoff.wordpress.com/), man, What a collection of trash!

  4. Tony2

    April 2, 2016 at 11:04 pm

    Mark,

    He won’t sue anybody. He’d have to show in a court of law that he has a working device and since he’s nothing but a con artist running a scam he’ll never be able to do that. And there will never be any sort of market for the device because there is no device. The only market for the ecat is the one that exists now – that of Il Douche finding and fleecing his marks while foolish people believe that he actually has something. And that market will be good for many years come it appears.

    Tony2

    • Daniel Maris

      April 2, 2016 at 11:15 pm

      Depends where he sues…in the UK it’s for the defendant (ie the person allegedly slandering or libelling the plaintiff) to prove what they said was true.

      • Tony2

        April 2, 2016 at 11:29 pm

        Daniel,

        Well, we aren’t in the UK, are we? And since I’m here and so is he, he better be able to trot out a working machine.

        Think he can?

        Tony2

        Tony2

      • Mary Yugo

        April 3, 2016 at 12:30 am

        Hi Daniel,

        I am not quite up to date on this but I believe those laws are changing to become more like those of the US where the person claiming libel has to demonstrate both that the statements about them were wrong and also that they were damaged by them.

        I am always amused and puzzled that the believers like Prakash and whatever Greenwin’s latest incarnation is, that they are hurt and angry about skeptical statements. They don’t seem to get that if Rossi has what he claims, nobody can stop him or even slow him down.

        They should be angry at Rossi and at the Swedish professors and at IH for taking so long and being so ineffective in proving that the ecat works. As we have said many times, that’s a two week job that somehow Rossi has perverted into a song and dance deceptive and tangential routine that has already taken more than five years with not a single provable accomplishment.

        So people, get angry with Rossi. Get HIM to prove the ecat works.

        • Prakash

          April 3, 2016 at 6:02 am

          Good things take time. That’s Rossi. Empty vessels make much noise. That’s you!

      • NTAK

        April 3, 2016 at 1:45 am

        In the the Uk… hahaha

  5. Mary Yugo

    April 3, 2016 at 12:33 am

    And just when you thought Hank Mills could not get dumber!

    http://www.e-catworld.com/2016/04/02/a-petition-for-the-publication-of-the-350-day-e-cat-report-hank-mills/

    He amazes. And the comments are hilarious as well.

    • dsm

      April 3, 2016 at 5:39 am

      Mary Yugo,
      .
      Thanks to you and your posts here, I get to see what is going on over at Ecat World (can’t bring myself to stay there and read the comments).
      .
      The interactions here are much more fun.
      .
      Thanks
      .
      DSM 😉

      • Prakash

        April 3, 2016 at 6:04 am

        Lol, I agree!

    • maxs

      April 3, 2016 at 8:36 am

      The discussion there is more than absurd. Acland made a good job over the years censoring all common sense. What a cult!

  6. Pweet

    April 3, 2016 at 7:59 am

    Oh noooooo! This is bad news.
    Hot off the Rossiblog;-

    “Andrea Rossi
    April 2, 2016 at 4:29 PM
    Peter Metz:
    I meant within tens of days.
    Warm Regards
    A.R.”

    “tens of days” can be as long as you like, or don’t like.
    My egg timer doesn’t go that long so I might miss the big release.
    Oh nooo,. what’ll I doooo?

    Oh well, back to sleep.

    • Tony2

      April 3, 2016 at 1:13 pm

      My, my, my. Who could have ever foreseen such a thing? The Inventor seemingly making things up as he goes along and the believers hanging on every word he says as Gospel truth?

      Only every skep here. And we’ve been saying it for 5 years and we have a batting average of 1.000. We’re always right.

      So will it be 10 10’s of days or 100 tens of days? Only The Inventor knows.

      Wake up and smell the scam.

      Tony2

      • Alexvs

        April 3, 2016 at 5:48 pm

        Actually some of Rossi followers are smelling the scam and most of them know that there will not be a satisfactory report even for them. I think Rossi will rescue the sentence IN MERCATV VERITAS leaving the believers in albis.

        • Tony2

          April 3, 2016 at 6:28 pm

          Alex,

          Yeah, that always happens, too. Il Douche winds them all up and lets them down and a couple of the believers get shaky. The rest of the crew reels them back in just in time for The Inventor to come up with some new line of BS to mesmerize them once again. So far, it looks like things are happening like they always do.

          Tony2

  7. Mary Yugo

    April 3, 2016 at 6:12 pm

    Amazingly, the megawatt plant is for sale. But there are no known customers and no known licensing by the state. How does that work?

    Kandace Bushnell
    April 2, 2016 at 8:18 PM
    Dr Andrea Rossi:
    Bravo for the positive exit of the 1 year test of the E-Cat.
    Are the 1 MW plants already for sale ?
    Cheers,
    Kandace

    Andrea Rossi
    April 2, 2016 at 10:59 PM
    Kandace Bushnell:
    Yes.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    You mean to tell me that in the five or more years that Rossi has claimed the megawatt plant has been for sale (since October 2011) there is not a single customer for this wonder of wonders who can be interviewed? Who will say how well it works? Who will say what he uses it for?

    Yah shoore.

    • Pweet

      April 4, 2016 at 8:25 am

      Aldo Proia tried to buy one for one of the customers of Prometeon, but try as he might, he could not get one, even though he was a paid up licensee.
      Not only that, he couldn’t even get any proper specification documents to give to the prospective customer.
      That small anomaly can be explained by this recent announcement on his highly informative blog;-
      “A good product doesn’t need any report, but the pass parole of the Customers. The Report is important for us, for our decisions, for our evolution. Our Customers will be indirectly benefited from it, though.
      Warm Regards,
      A.R.”

      So,.. for anyone who is considering buying one, don’t waste your time with petty annoyances like,.. asking for a product report or specifications. Just pay your money and wait for it to turn up in the mail. And wait,. and wait,.. and wait,..

      After all,. Rossi is not making idle chatterings. He is making products.

      Or,.. another very recent gem from the blog to Peter Gluck when he suggested Rossi release some sort of report;-
      “at this point what counts is not the discussion mumbojumbo- tango, but the massive production of the E-Cats;”

      I read the same about five years ago and it has again appeared a few days back.
      As the saying goes, Everything that’s old is new again.

  8. Mary Yugo

    April 3, 2016 at 6:30 pm

    Some of the natives, over on e-dummyworld are getting restless.

    LCD • 7 hours ago
    I think the irony or sillliness of this whole saga is that if this report is real, the tech is real, etc, then there should not be another fission plant, coal plant, or any other type of power plant really, or any more new oil wells, or new fracking methods, or new types of vehicle gasoline and diesel engines planned for its opening/creation etc. But there are. And that in itself represents a massive amount of resources, many of which can’t be reclaimed, being used in completely the wrong way. And that in itself is NOT unethical?

    While the bulk of them are dumber than ever!

    ENRespect • 9 hours ago
    With respect for Mr Mills and all others curious for reading the report I fail to see the real advantage of having it on the public table tomorrow instead of in “tens of days”.
    Several of the general benefits claimed by Mr Mills many can agree on but they are then also still valid three months from now.
    Instead I can imagine negatives with trying to force out the report outside the present timeplan.

    First I am sure Rossi will be disappointed if a large number of ECW readers openly show
    disrespect to him and his ability to handle this sensitive moment in the way he thinks is right.
    Why do that to a man who for several years , with his best honesty , respect and knowledge ,patiently tried to answer questions and published news in a way no other commercial inventor or R&D department would ever dream of.

    And then, there is this brilliant gem:

    Michael W Wolf psi2u2 • 3 hours ago
    If alien contact is made, the government has decided it would be TOO disruptive to society, therefore it has decided to keep it from the masses. What if LENR is considered TOO disruptive? They had better get this public before that realization by government.

    ROTFWL!

  9. Mary Yugo

    April 3, 2016 at 8:11 pm

    Higgins on Vortex

    Let’s forget about the skeptics. We are the skeptics but Rossi is probably telling part of the truth.

    Bob Higgins Fri, 01 Apr 2016 07:40:09 -0700

    We should forget about the patho-skeptics (Cude, Yugo), as their tripe is not worth the time spent reading. I don’t know why such people exist in the forums unless they are getting paid to help slow development of LENR.
    I can’t imaging that they get much enjoyment from the time they spend writing.

    On the other hand, there are reputable Vorts and scientists among us who, while being healthy skeptics, are skeptics of Rossi or at least Rossi’s 1MW reactor array and testing. Ask yourself, why do these folks, whose opinions we value, have a skeptical vision of the 1MW test? One answer that keeps getting ignored is *that these people may be in possession of additional insider information that the collective, in general, does not have*.

    I suggest we temper our expectations for the 1MW test until the actual announcements are made by Rossi and IH.

    Absolute nonsense from Bob, as usual. But I wish Standard Oil and General Motors and the Koch brothers would hurry up and send me my check for writing on forums!

    • Ransompw

      April 3, 2016 at 8:42 pm

      Yugo

      He was sure right about his first point, your tripe isn’t worth reading.

      He at least gets points for recognizing that much.

      • Mary Yugo

        April 3, 2016 at 11:40 pm

        Ransom: How would you know? You probably don’t read what I write and if you did, you wouldn’t understand it.

        • Ransompw

          April 4, 2016 at 2:28 am

          Sure MaryYugo,

          You run around the internet contending someone is committing fraud and believe you know more about what constitutes evidence of fraud than a lawyer who litigates those issues.

          You are so dumb it is comical.

          • grenble

            April 4, 2016 at 1:34 pm

            Well yes… But also do not forget that Mary is a “world class expert in calorimetry”!!!

            https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=%22world%20class%20expert%20in%20calorimetry%22

            LoL

          • JNewman

            April 4, 2016 at 2:12 pm

            grenble, you exhibit the keen analytical skills that seem to be the hallmark of the Rossi believer. If you actually read the links you posted, you would see that Mary does not claim to be a “world class expert in calorimetry” in any of them. The quote from Mary is that if “she” were indeed the specific individual that you people insist she is, then she would indeed be such an expert. Of course, subtle analyses such as actually understanding what is explicitly written appear to be beyond you. But good try, anyway.

          • grenble

            April 4, 2016 at 7:25 pm

            What planet are you on JNewman?

            Mary is clearly the “specified individual” to which you refer.

            https://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg62587.html

          • JNewman

            April 4, 2016 at 7:57 pm

            Speaking of other planets, grenble, as apparently the typical angry, irrational believer, please explain how would this revelation about MY, if correct, makes the slightest difference to the validity of his comments other than, perhaps, give them greater weight?

            It is truly remarkable how believers spend all their time trying to impugn the arguments of skeptics by attacking the skeptics rather than their arguments. Oh yeah, I almost forgot. They have no rebuttals other than personal attacks.

          • grenble

            April 4, 2016 at 9:28 pm

            The majority of your’s and “Mary’s” posts contain personal insults… so consider this maybe as some karma.

            As for how this revelation makes the slightest difference, I just think it’s funny that someone can type something so ridiculous as that.

            He’s the literal definition of a “self-proclaimed expert”; a hallmark of weirdos and dubious hustlers the world over.

    • Prakash

      April 3, 2016 at 9:35 pm

      Ah BS! Nobody is paying you jack. You’re an obnoxious troll that’s all you are.

  10. ts

    April 3, 2016 at 9:09 pm

    People – there was a “report” signed off by an ERV about 5 years who supposedly verified/validated the 1 MW plant during a brief test run. Remember that?

    How many 1 MW plants have been sold on the open market to real customers? 0.

    How many e-cats of any type have been sold on the open market? 0.

    Has anyone who signed up on the famous domestic pre-order list received an ecat? No.

    Can you go into a store and buy an ecat almost 5 years after the prior time the 1MW plant was verified/validated? No.

    In order for the Ecat to work, the known laws of Physics have to invalidated. You know, the laws of physics that were recently validated by the Large Hadron Collider and many other recent multi-billion dollar experiments that hundreds of the top nuclear physicists in the world worked on.

    The fact that some people believe that the signature of some random person who happens to have the 3 letters “PhD” at the end of their name on the report will verify that the laws of Physics are invalid is beyond laughable. In my opinion, the report won’t be worth the paper it’s written on in terms of real physics the same as all prior ecat reports. The report could be convincing enough to those who haven’t followed this circus, however, to persuade them to invest in the ecat without performing their own independent tests. That was probably the purpose of the 1 MW yearlong test anyway.

    • Ascoli65

      April 3, 2016 at 10:50 pm

      @ ts,
      yes, there is no reason to wait for the ERV report in order to know the energetic performances of the 1 MW plant tested for one year in the USA. Rossi himself said: “This plant belongs to the first generation, substantially it is equal to the plant tested in Bologna in the Winter of 2011” (1). So, the performances of the USA plant should be “substantially” the same of the 1 MW plant tested in Bologna, and therefore of those of each single module (the so called fat-cat) contained in it. These last have been already released 4 and half years ago, and there is a very little chance that the ERV report can contain any more accurate data.

      These data have been thoroughly reported by Mats Lewan after the public demonstration on one fat-cat held on the 6 October, 2011 (2). The Lewan’s data (but not his conclusions!) are quite accurate and believable, and allow each real “expert” to conclude that the Joule’s effect is sufficient to give reason of all the heat generated during that test.

      (1) http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=892&cpage=51#comment-1149083
      (2) http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3295411.ece

      • Tony2

        April 3, 2016 at 10:58 pm

        Ah, yes. The 2011 demonstration. 480 kW of heat we were told while a 500kW diesel generator ran outside throughout the demo and the e-cat was plugged into the wall the entire time. The test was conclusive in my eyes. 100% fake.

        Tony2

        • Daniel Maris

          April 3, 2016 at 11:11 pm

          Make up your mind. One moment he’s a master forger…the next he can’t even fake something properly.

          • Tony2

            April 3, 2016 at 11:59 pm

            Daniel,

            You’re getting a bit incoherent. My mind has always been made up. He’s not a master forger nor incompetent at his trade. He is a pretty good con man who knows he can’t show the same thing twice. It always has to be different so the fake can be put in place.

            Tony2

          • Mary Yugo

            April 4, 2016 at 2:10 am

            Rossi is mainly a master baiter. Rossi’s main strength is choosing his victims. He doesn’t choose the brightest lights and if he incurs any resistance, Rossi’s guest turns into a snake or a clown.

            And he’s good telling people what they want to hear. He also has the patience to work out and test his mismeasurement methods so that they are reliable enough to use at least once to bamboozle the unwary.

            In addition to con man skills, he seems to have a lot of luck. How could he predict he’d run into person after person who did not require properly calibrated and controlled experiments before yumping to concussions? As they say in Swedish!

        • Ascoli65

          April 3, 2016 at 11:29 pm

          @ Tony2,
          you replied to my comment, but I was talking about the single module demonstration held on October 6, 2011, and not to the 1 MW plant demonstration held on October 28. Here is a synopsis of all the tests held during that year: http://i.imgur.com/rB93G1X.jpg .
          My opinion is that the results of all these tests can be explained taking into account only the heat generated inside the electric heaters by Joule effect. This apply to the October 6 test, hence to the October 28 test, and finally to the recent 1 year test. Ttherefore, the real conclusive test is that held on October 6.
          No need to wait for the ERV report.
          Is it clear now?

          • Tony2

            April 4, 2016 at 12:01 am

            Ascoli,

            Sorry. I misunderstood. Yes, it can always be explained by the mundane and ordinary. No nuclear reaction of any kind needed with any of the demos or tests.

            Tony2

        • Pweet

          April 4, 2016 at 8:38 am

          Yes, but that was for safety reasons.
          He needed the half megawatt genset roaring away just in case the ‘failsafe’ reactor went into thermal runaway and needed another half megawatt heaped into it just to quench the reaction. ?????
          It still puzzles me how this happens but hey, Mr. Rossi says that’s what’s needed so who am I to disagree?
          After all; it’s obvious I don’t know how the reactor works, and it is increasingly obvious, neither does Mr’ Rossi, mostly because it doesn’t.

      • ts

        April 5, 2016 at 11:36 am

        Ascoli and everyone- glad you see my point. There have ben many versions of the ecat which were claimed to “pass” a test only to be abandoned soon after. I read someplace that the ecat people were planning to abandon the 1 mw plant soon too. Everyone on this website knows this pattern will continue indefinitely because it let’s the eat people claim success without ever putting a product on the market.

    • Frank

      April 3, 2016 at 11:40 pm

      Where actually did the (first) “1MW container” end up – at the junk yard?
      This famous blue container, which got shipped from Italy to the US-partner in Mai 2013:
      http://www.e-catworld.com/2013/05/03/e-cat-shipping-pictures-posted-on-the-jonp/

      From JONP (long time ago):
      April 28th, 2013 at 1:22 PM
      Dear Brian:
      We are delivering, this month, to our USA Partner three plants, one industrial plant of 1 MW which is a low temperature heat producing plant, one prototype of Gas fuelled E-Cat and one prototype of Hot Cat plant. The prototypes are to study them and study their industrialization, while their certification is in course. The duty of the 1 MW plant is industrial heat production. The delivery will be made this week.

      What did the US customer (which later turned out to be IH) do with that stuff?

      • JNewman

        April 4, 2016 at 12:23 am

        According to the World Shipping Council, 2,683 shipping containers are lost at sea each year. No doubt many are blue.

      • Pweet

        April 4, 2016 at 8:02 am

        “our USA Partner” ??
        I wonder who that is?
        It can’t be Industrial Heat because they are only a Licensee. I know that for a fact because Rossi said so.

  11. dsm

    April 4, 2016 at 2:41 am

    The heart of the matter from an evaluation perspective, is the relationship between IH and Rossi.
    .
    If they have indeed parted ways (and I can only see speculation on this, no reliable facts) then that would be a blunt statement by IH that their experiment with Andrea’s eCat was going, or went, nowhere.
    .
    If the test were completed, and IH remained involved up to the end. Then IMHO Rossi has his miracle (though where he got it from is a mystery to me).
    .
    Again, if IH participated in the test to the end, then per my earlier assessments, IH would be (IMHO) strange businessmen (esp VCs) to blurt out to the world that this *early* part of their investment is working – WHEN they / Rossi have not secured full patent protection and have not locked in place the process by which the device can be realised as a commercial product.
    .
    Andrea Rossi is the only one (of he and IH) who would benefit in the short term of full disclosure of any success.
    .
    All the blogsphere wailing on both sides of the divide, are not part of the investment, mere spectators with *no* rights other than what each imagines. If Rossi has nothing then we will never see anything no matter how long it goes on,PROVIDED, he doesn’t cross the line in terms on people INVESTING in his venture, other than Venture Captialists, who do their investments based on accepted risk.
    .
    .
    .
    DSM

    • JNewman

      April 4, 2016 at 3:08 am

      The murky part of this is that we really don’t know what it is that IH owns or has rights to. Early on, we were led to believe that they had all the keys to the candy store. Rossi was their employee or CTO, or some such thing. More recently, it seems more like they merely have some sort of restricted license. The truth is, we don’t really have a clue what exactly their standing is at this point. As a result, speculating on what would be prudent behavior on their part is difficult at best.

      • dsm

        April 4, 2016 at 6:11 am

        agree.
        D

      • Daniel Maris

        April 4, 2016 at 10:38 am

        I agree it’s a bit murky but essentially it appears IH have the rights to exploit the IP in about two thirds of the world’s economy.

        • Mary Yugo

          April 4, 2016 at 4:57 pm

          Yay! So they have the right to exploit what? A slew of silly posts on Rossi’s dumb blog and a bunch of useless hardware and junk in a container which is at most an electric heater and maybe not even that. Oh wow.

          • Daniel Maris

            April 4, 2016 at 9:12 pm

            Well, presumably, according to the contract, Rossi or Leonardo have to hand over something to IH at some point to enable them to exploit the IP. I think that is what many – maybe not here – are waiting for, to see what happens with the report on the pilot operation. I would agree if we never hear again from IH in relation to Rossi, the E Cat or Leonardo a rat is to be smelt. But we’re not there yet are we?

    • Pweet

      April 4, 2016 at 8:48 am

      I think Rossi might be telling the truth when he says he is waiting on agreement from all parties before he releases the ERV report.
      I think IH might need some time to work out how to smooth things over with whoever put up the money to buy into this scam before the report is made public.
      Actually, I can’t think of anyone who would benefit from the release of it because I think it will lack credibility in all aspects, and transparently so.

      • dsm

        April 4, 2016 at 11:13 am

        Pweet, that conclusion doesn’t really stack up. If IH pony’d up to obtain ‘rights’ and fund the apparent 50% of the year long test – they are in the driver’s seat. And, even Rossi acknowledges that – what he has said in this regard is realistic.
        .
        If the report were not good, it would not come out. Why should it ? – IH have no desire nor obligation to broadcast a failed venture. That notion is business stupidity. It is counter to their VC mission. Put the failures aside and move on.
        .
        DSM

    • Mary Yugo

      April 4, 2016 at 5:00 pm

      DSM, are you a drama queen? The blogosphere, whatever that is, doesn’t know or care about Rossi. They’re more into people like Trump and Kim Kardashian. The Bachelor or Dancing with the Stars and the newest Batman/Superman movie and whoever has the highest scores today on Youtube and Instagram.

      As for the “heart of the matter” — it’s only about when Rossi’s obvious scam is discovered and what, if anything, IH and his other investors decide to do with Rossi.

      • dsm

        April 4, 2016 at 9:58 pm

        Mary,
        .
        Love the label – but smacks of ‘transference’.
        .
        (Psych term that describes the process of transferring particular emotional issues to other people).
        .
        Mary also said “Rossi’s obvious scam”. It sure as hell is 500% obvious to you (and that mysterious oddball Gary Wright). But on this matter may be you are both right – (just lack the real proof).
        .
        DSM

  12. Alexvs

    April 4, 2016 at 8:20 am

    The relations of Rossi with IH are so obscure, contradictory and opaque as his research and results. What Rossi touches becomes toxic as himself. The ERV report is only the end (or beginning?) of the n-th Groundhog Day. I wonder how many iterations can he sustain before a definitive final.

  13. Alexvs

    April 4, 2016 at 8:35 am

    Goofy goes around JONP writing under several pseudonyms

    April 3, 2016 at 7:59 PM
    Dear Andrea,

    Is this statement below accurate enough??

    Hot Topics,

    .. You will soon have a massive production that will make worthless the work of your competitors. The report has completely resolved the certification issues for retail sales. Very soon ANYBODY will be able to buy an E-Cat and do with it what they want. Leonardo Corporation is working on it, awaiting final test results of the Quark that should be completed within two months or less. The ABB manufacturing systems will be ready when we are done with these tests. Leonardo Corporation is working strong on all fronts. Leonardo Corporation is optimistic about this time-frame. The ECat-Q is wonderful. It works. We love it!

    Frankly, the results of the one year test were too positive. was not only achieved, it was forever destroyed, abyssed even! The COP reported was so high we could not possibly consider having the numbers become public, as the sales cannot support guarantees that require “Andrea Rossi” personal attention 24 hours a day 7 days a week at hundreds, nay … thousands … of industrial sites! This would be ludicrous! The safety issues were likewise resolved – completely!

    All of you who follow this blog KNOW these answers already!

    Sit back.

    Buckle up.

    We are go for launch!

    10 … 9 … 8 … 7 … 6 …

    Rossi answers he,he,he and I believe him. He laughs until exhaustion. I laugh too.

    • Pweet

      April 4, 2016 at 8:55 am

      I’m pretty sure “Goofy” knows which side the bread is buttered on. And I’m pretty sure he is aware it has landed buttered side down.
      I think he always knew it would, but if you say that, you get “The Royal Order of the Boot” on some web sites.
      He seems to be testing the limits in his last post.

      • Alexvs

        April 4, 2016 at 9:13 am

        Maybe. I stated before that some long time believers were smelling the scam.

  14. tony2

    April 4, 2016 at 2:09 pm

    Will it ever end?

    “Giovanni
    April 4, 2016 at 3:07 AM
    Dear Andrea,
    has your ecat-q ever produced (apart from heath, electricity and light) some kind of THRUST?
    Best regards
    Giovanni”

    And, of course, it has.

    “Andrea Rossi
    April 4, 2016 at 5:57 AM
    Giovanni:
    Yes.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.”

    This is really starting to get out of hand. I thought this might be an April Fool’s gig but it’s all from today. Does he seriously expect anybody to believe this crap? I guess he does.

    Tony2

    • Mary Yugo

      April 4, 2016 at 5:01 pm

      Rossi is quite a guy. And while all the ecats are dancing a jig, if you put a whisk broom up his as*, Rossi will also sweep the floor.

    • Asterix

      April 4, 2016 at 6:16 pm

      Well, I’m pretty sure that claims will be made that the eCat can mix the perfect martini and cure hemorrhoids without surgery.

  15. Mary Yugo

    April 4, 2016 at 5:23 pm

    Meanwhile, Gary Wright is on the war path again with a new article about Rossi and Industrial Heat. And it seems, he says, that the original news release linking the two has mysteriously gone missing.

    http://freeenergyscams.com/andrea-rossi-e-cat-industrial-heat-llc-more-on-rossis-floundering-warship/

    Here is where the news release *was*:

    http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/industrial-heat-has-acquired-andrea-rossis-e-cat-technology-241853361.html

    PESN show IH’s web site to be industrialheat.co and that returns a site not found error. industrialheat.com gives the same result.

    Uhho… isn’t this the way Defkalion started to disintegrate and disappear? Can IH and Rossi be far behind?

  16. Mary Yugo

    April 4, 2016 at 7:27 pm

    RansompwReply
    April 4, 2016 at 2:28 am
    Sure MaryYugo,
    You run around the internet contending someone is committing fraud and believe you know more about what constitutes evidence of fraud than a lawyer who litigates those issues.
    You are so dumb it is comical.

    Your comprehension skills seem so dim to me, I can’t imagine how you litigate anything complicated. You see, I never said it was possible to sue Rossi for fraud or that evidence I have is of the sort that would support litigation.

    On a scientific basis, however, Rossi’s ecat fraud is obvious and the circumstantial evidence for it is compelling when one looks at the entire, improbable 5 year fiasco.

    • RansomPW

      April 4, 2016 at 8:27 pm

      Mary Dimwit Yugo:

      In a court of law, an investor would only have to prove fraud by a preponderance of the evidence. That is more likely true than not true. If it so obvious he is committing fraud, meeting that burden would be child’s play.

      The problem is you have no idea what you are talking about. You are so far down the rabbit hole on this you couldn’t appreciate reality from fantasy if you wanted to.

      • JNewman

        April 4, 2016 at 9:22 pm

        Let’s forget about courts of law for a moment, Ransom. With your colossal intellect, surely in five years you have formed some kind of opinion. Regardless of what could be proved in a courtroom, do you believe that Rossi is a deliberate fraud, a delusional fellow, or that he has discovered a new energy source? If you can cast aside your weasel tendencies, please tell us what you think (not what you can prove.)

        • RansomPW

          April 4, 2016 at 10:57 pm

          I think it is hard to believe given the number of people Rossi has invited to observe and test the device (notwithstanding Al’s position that he is a genius at selecting his Marks (try to sell that one in court)) that we are dealing with a deliberate fraud. In addition to the almost universal positive reports (whether they screwed the tests are not)from those given a chance to observe and test, not one individual with privity has come forward and claimed fraud. Given the time and numbers involved that is really unusual for deliberate fraud.

          Delusion, maybe, but then lots of people must be in on the delusion.

          I still think it fits just as well with this scenario. In 2011 Rossi demonstrated at BEST, a very crude lab experiment. Since then the device has continually changed and gotten closer to a prototype. Five years to do that is really pretty reasonable. So maybe a normal start up product development path.

          And most importantly, he hasn’t discovered a new energy source. If LENR is real (and that continues to be the most intriguing part of this) he may have advanced the results.

          I think deliberate fraud is unlikely, delusion is possible involving all those in the LENR field and my last scenario (lab experiment – product prototype)is at least a fifty-fifty proposition. The LENR delusion scenario is close to fifty-fifty in my book but not quite. But I readily admit I have no basis for the LENR evaluation which I would call scientific. I do have experience in litigating fraud claims and this doesn’t fit. And who has he defrauded, a bunch of people with money who were given an opportunity to test and evaluate. Come on, be real, that isn’t even close to fraud. Leading the peanut gallery along isn’t fraud either.

          • Frank

            April 5, 2016 at 12:18 am

            Of course, since nobody knows what is in the contract between Rossi and IH, we don’t know whether Rossi defrauded IH or not.
            One can always speculate that IH might have paid millions just to get the right to perform a test on the e-cat – regardless of the test results (positive or negative).
            Wouldn’t be a very smart deal (from investor perspective), but why not?

            Whatever, two companies linked to Cherokee now in troubles:
            http://www.bloomberg.com/research/stocks/private/snaprshot.asp?privcapId=127890

            Cherokee Investment Partners, LLC Key Developments
            Ashley I And II Planning sale Of Charleston Asset
            Feb 9 16:
            Ashley II LLC and Ashley I LLC, which have filed for file for bankruptcy, are looking to sell assets. The companies are looking to sell Charleston Neck land. An auction is expected to take place in June 2016. Cherokee Investment Partners, LLC owns Ashley II LLC and Ashley I LLC. According to the news report, Ashley II and Ashley I did not respond to requests for comment. It further added that Columbia bankruptcy attorney Bill McCarthy, who is representing the companies, said that he had no immediate comments.

            Some additional background information here:
            http://www.postandcourier.com/article/20160214/PC05/160219751/1177/bankruptcy-sales-a-key-step-to-reviving-magnolia-project-in-charleston

          • dsm

            April 5, 2016 at 12:38 am

            RansomPW,
            .
            Nice summary. Well argued.
            .
            DSM
            (such fair reasoning does tend to get lost here. Few are interested in it – most seem to prefer just the back-slapping ridicule)

          • JNewman

            April 5, 2016 at 2:26 am

            Ransom, thanks for a reasoned answer rather than the usual venom.

            Of course, in my view, rejecting the notion of deliberate fraud out of hand flies in the face of literally dozens of obvious lies and distortions that Rossi has provided over the years. Even those who make excuses for him (they are “strategic moves”) cannot repair out-and-out contradictions, which are plentiful.

            In any case, the almost universally positive reports have all been discredited completely by anyone analyzing them thoroughly and, in any event, have clearly not impressed anyone at all other than a small group of people. As for the number of people who have observed and tested the device, that is a very small and limited number indeed. Observing, in the context of Rossi’s earlier tests, was utterly meaningless. Such observations (consisting of standing in the same room as a gadget) provide no insight whatsoever. Moreover, there is no reason to ascribe any credibility to any of these people. Rossi supporters deeply respect them for their degrees (if any) and affiliations; none of them have professional track records that lend any credence to their opinion. There is no real reason to assume that anyone actually has had privity to the device. Certainly not Levi and his helpers. We still await the analysis of a demonstrably independent evaluator with appropriate experience and capabilities. I suppose the so-called EVP is expected to change that state of affairs. We shall see.

            The notion that too many people are involved in this for it to be a fraud is quite absurd. There have been much bigger frauds of much greater import throughout the ages. This one, captivating the attention of a rather small group of people only enabled by the Internet, is hardly world-class in that regard.

            In any case, Rossi clearly has the ability to keep this going pretty much indefinitely. Your view of the situation seems to remain constant year after year. Five years of nothing tangible or verifiable seems reasonable to you. I suppose ten will too, when it comes to that.

            In the meantime, fraud is by leaps and bounds the best fit for this saga. I should use a different word because you will jump at the legal aspects of that term. So, to be more accurate, I would contend that the ecat doesn’t work, has never worked, never will work, and Rossi is fully aware of that fact. The rest is up for argument.

            Proving that the ecat actually works would not take a year. It would not take a special evaluator a month or two to sort it out. A suitably qualified test facility could resolve this in a week or two. Make up all the nonsensical “business strategy” excuses you want for Rossi avoiding becoming an instant billionaire and most famous person on the planet. But the only sensible explanation is that the stupid thing doesn’t work.

            But that’s just my opinion. You are entitled to yours. I just hope you don’t put any money on it.

          • Ransompw

            April 5, 2016 at 2:58 am

            Newman

            Don’t you understand how lame all that sounds. People who actually tested and were present for demonstrations are impressed and provide positive support while people with absolutely no first hand knowledge come up with imaginary wires to explain the results.

            You have been reading this site too much. An independent observer would laugh at your rationalized excuses to ignore first hand reports.

            It just demonstrates the lack of real objectivity here.

          • JNewman

            April 5, 2016 at 3:18 am

            Too bad the authors of those reports cannot find any independent observers to read them and publish them. Must be that anti-LENR conspiracy at work again. Of course, you only believe in that if you read the other site too much. It seems as if your definition of objectivity in these matters is, well, subjective.

          • Pweet

            April 5, 2016 at 5:01 am

            re: at RansomPW
            where you say
            ” not one individual with privity has come forward and claimed fraud”

            The comments made by Aldo Proia of Prometeon would surely come close to that.
            You must have read them surely. He wrote quite a disparaging letter explaining the circumstances of his lease buyback from Rossi.
            Had it not been for the money Rossi received from IH when they bought into the “partnership” now called just another licensee agreement, Proia would have been left high and dry with nothing.
            I don’t think Proia paid all that money to Rossi just on the possibility he might get it repaid some time in the future by some other gullible fool taking over the liability.

            I would say the Defkalion people got scammed because they thought they had bought something real but found they had actually bought nothing salable. Hence after all their hype and blurb about imminent release of great new products, they seem to have disappeared.
            I think what we are seeing now is the Rossi /IH partnership going the same way.
            Why esn’t IH make any accusations of fraud? Probably because they still have money on the table and they would like to get it back. That would not be helped by calling the Rossi
            ‘technology’ a fraud. Plus, to openly call it a fraud is an admission they were dumb enough to fall into the trap. That’s not a good look for someone in the business of managing other peoples money. But so far all indications are, they most certainly were scammed.

            Also, although Krivit had no commercial relationship with Rossi, he had been given the facility to observe a test of the device by Rossi himself, and he was so unconvinced it was a fraud he has called it a scam and a fraud ever since. And that’s from a person who is promoting alternative energy.

            In fact, most of those who have observed various tests and demonstrations by way of YouTube videos agree the whole thing is both a fraud and a scam, but by your definition it is neither of these because all those people do not have ‘privity’, a commercial relationship with Rossi.
            Of course they don’t because Rossi astutely filters out those who discern the whole thing is bogus and since they look close enough to determine that it is a fraud, why would they seek any sort of commercial relationship with him.

          • dsm

            April 5, 2016 at 5:48 am

            Pweet,
            Posted = “I think what we are seeing now is the Rossi /IH partnership going the same way.”
            .

            That was well expressed an a very reasonable thought. Why it was well expressed is you stated clearly “I think”.
            .
            The problems with this as an only conclusion are many (even if your thought is one of the better ones).
            .
            It can be argued that success would invoke many more ‘ideas’ as to why IH would clam up and hide.
            .
            If we come back to one issue – being : ‘Rossi still claims a tight relationship with IH’ – if false then Rossi has already hit a brick wall. That as a lie can’t last very long. If true (Rossi in tight with IH today) then IH are ‘going to ground’ because they have many reasons to do so (related to success).
            .
            In pure logic terms, and IMHO, the main issue of focus is Rossi/IH relationship today.
            .
            All the garbage people are posting (like the infamous Gary Wright) that IH’s web site & early press releases have gone into hiding, are mere distractions. Ultimately meaningless fluff that tells us little other than the invented importance created by the posters of those stories.
            .
            What is needed is SOLID evidence of today’s IH/Rossi relationship and not phantom web sites/releases.
            .
            DSM

  17. NTAK

    April 4, 2016 at 9:03 pm

    So, I will ask again… do any of the believers want to say when “very soon” is, based on Rossi’s latest statement:

    “Very soon ANYBODY will be able to buy an E-Cat and do with it what they want”

    And if Rossi doesn’t have a e-cat product for sale by your date you will call Rossi a fraud here an over at E-Con World.

  18. Mary Yugo

    April 4, 2016 at 11:30 pm

    Rossi is quite a guy. And while all the ecats are dancing a jig, if you put a whisk broom up his as*, Rossi will also sweep the floor.

  19. Pweet

    April 5, 2016 at 8:23 am

    re: post by dsm above, which says in part:-
    “If we come back to one issue – being : ‘Rossi still claims a tight relationship with IH’ – if false then Rossi has already hit a brick wall. That as a lie can’t last very long. If true (Rossi in tight with IH today) then IH are ‘going to ground’ because they have many reasons to do so (related to success).”

    Even when it becomes too obvious to dispute that the wheels have fallen off the Rossi /IH partnership it will make little difference to the Rossi travelling salvation show, in the same way that the wheels falling off the Rossi / Defkalion partnership or the Rossi / Prometeon franchise, or the Rossi / Green franchise, or the Rossi Bolognese University research arrangement etc; the collapse of none of these alliances were an insurmountable obstacle to the genius of Mr. Rossi.
    And even the band of faithful followers will, after an initial despondent muttering of disappointment, will fall in behind the piper and follow him faithfully down the road to the next cliff to be led over.
    Most of those whose faith was boosted by the involvement of IH on the basis of the supposed due diligence and all that rubbish, will count that as nothing when it dawns on them that IH has indeed departed the nest, having been financially thoroughly plucked, or something which sounds similar.
    Rossi has far more assets behind him now than when he initially took his circus act onto the public stage, having to sell his house to do so. (he said). With what he has extracted from IH I don’t see any reason why he can’t go on for as long as he likes.
    To believe otherwise would to be believe the world has run out of fools for him to work his magic on.
    Even now there are people who still believe the Papp engine can work and would probably be prepared to invest in it. How unbelievable is that?

    • Alexvs

      April 5, 2016 at 8:50 am

      A significant percentage of people is stupid and against stupidity even Gods fight vainly, so it is no surprise finding Keely, Papp or Rossi supporters. Being so easy to communicate nowadays, to gather them in stupid sites i.e. ECW, JONP… should have been foreseeable.

    • dsm

      April 5, 2016 at 9:14 am

      Pweet
      .
      Pweet Posted “Even when it becomes too obvious to dispute that the wheels have fallen off the Rossi /IH partnership it will make little difference to the Rossi travelling salvation show”
      .
      Why ? – if the relationship with IH (after their announced commitment and the 12 month test), has fallen in a hole NO OTHER VC would even look at Rossi. But if we say the world is full of fantasists loaded with money to burn (that is a bit of a fantasy in itself) and these were to ignore a suggested failure between IH and Rossi, then maybe there is some validity in your premise.
      .
      If Rossi loses IH he loses all credibility other than in fairyland.
      .
      DSM

      • Pweet

        April 5, 2016 at 10:18 am

        You would think so wouldn’t you, but sadly no. The Papp engine is still on the road, not under it’s own power of course, but being propelled along by the insistent pressure of followers that the ‘technology’ can work.
        And the circumstances surrounding the Papp engine are just as implausible as the circumstances surrounding the e-cat, but still a band of faithful followers march on, and on,. and on, after more than 50 years of failures.
        How is that even remotely possible, after the recent laughably pathetic ‘non demonstration’ of working devices hosted by John Rohner a year or so back?
        In remarkably similar circumstances he is said to have extracted millions from gullible fools ready to part with their cash in return for ‘licenses’ to use the technology.
        None of the devices ever worked of course but even then, some of the licensees still claim the technology is valid and all it needs is a bit of fine tuning. Yeah,, right. Tune away.

        If the Papp engine can continue on I don’t see any reason why the ecat can’t carry on as well. There’s now more than enough enthusiastic unflappable followers to support both ‘technologies’ regardless of how many failures they encounter.

        • dsm

          April 6, 2016 at 3:56 am

          Pweet,
          .
          John Rohner (one of the 3 Rohner brothers) had no role in the original Papp engine. Tom & Bob did as they built the last claimed working version (note I stated ‘claimed’ and please don’t turn that into me claiming it working as a fact – I am reporting the story – ok !).
          .
          Tom Rohner had no scientific background, just an engineering one & Bob Rohner had a deep level of expertise in electronics and built the Papp engine controller.
          .
          There is no point in adding in 1000s of words of history here so I’ll move on to the next point.
          .
          John had decided that he had to get control of the Papp rights (Bob & Tom were in their minds in no doubt it worked). John managed to get some control & using his family name (association with Tom & Bob) set up a company called Intelligentry. Anyone familiar with the history would have (IMHO) quickly concluded that John was on a knife edge of sanity (I said so several times in this very blog). John talked himself into a corner that eventually came crashing down after a failed trade show in Texas and the SEC did get involved & John was prosecuted.
          .
          Beyond that there do appear to still be people who believe the Papp engine did work and can be resurrected – good luck to them but I would not invest in that. My defense of Tom Rohner here in the past was *his right* to try. Again, I have stated here in this very blog that I would not invest in Tom Rohner’s efforts because as nice a guy as he was/is, he did not have the insights or intellect to figure out how to make it work (who does?).
          .
          Now, people here have made many ignorant & snide remarks about my supposed ‘support’ of Papp & Tom but distorting what people (like myself) say here is an art form still well practiced. I suspect you are trying it on just to start a controversy. Now if you can find any (at all) posts by me that contradict what I have just said, then repost them and let us see who has the photographic memory & who is distorting the story for devious intent.
          .
          Consider this a challenge. (but you *will* fail.)
          .
          DSM

      • tony2

        April 5, 2016 at 12:51 pm

        dsm,

        If he loses IH, will you leave fairyland or stick around for more of the Brothers Grimm?

        Tony2

        • dsm

          April 6, 2016 at 3:59 am

          JFO

    • dsm

      April 5, 2016 at 9:36 am

      Pweet,

      (part 2) Posted “Rossi has far more assets behind him now than when he initially took his circus act onto the public stage”.
      .
      Does he ? – how ?.
      .
      VCs DO NOT HAND MONEY LIKE CANDY !. They propose a deal BASED ON RESULTS. They usually do not hand it all over then “hope” they get a result. They hand over just enough to make progress but cut the funding the instant things stop. That is one of the VC’s risks.
      .
      But it is possible, that part of the deal *was* (we know this) that Rossi had to get rid of all the citizen investors he sold licenses to (a big legal exposure). So IH most likely assisted in that buy back. But, that would have been part of their risk. Rossi may have received some advance finance as well. But it is simply wild speculation to believe he made a ‘motza’ from a failed relationship with IH – simply naive.
      .
      DSM

      • Pweet

        April 5, 2016 at 10:26 am

        Oh. In that case Mr. Rossi must have won the lotteries which financed his purchase of those condos in Miami. What a lucky fellow.
        He would have passed a lot of that on to help cure sick children of course, as he said he would, but a good lottery win would still leave him with lots to play with.

        • dsm

          April 5, 2016 at 11:39 am

          Pweet,
          .
          Just Think !.
          .
          Rossi had funded most of what he had done from his own sources. But he was running out and that was when he set about selling rights in various regions (to fools who had *NO* business sense – just a fantasy and an element of greed). He raised several millions that we are aware of.
          .
          Part of his deal with IH was that these people had to go (IH would have seen them as a risk plus IH wanted the rights to many of those countries).
          .
          Rossi agreed and IH appear to have provided funding to pay them out, but that payout would have included some money going to Rossi as recompense for what he had put up prior to going begging from his followers.
          .
          So yes Rossi suddenly had a slice of his original investment back. So he spends a few $100,000 on real estate in Miami. Big deal !. Why do you see that as sinister – why ?.
          .
          Rossi had NO need to put more of his money back into the eCat technology because he still owned a major slice and he now had IH.
          .
          The crunch for Rossi would be at what point IH would decide the Venture (as in what VCs invest in) was not going to work out.
          At that point they would tell Rossi – you failed and we are gone. In this sceanrio they would have used up a few million. But as with all VC opportunities a success could return many millions, even billions (& if eCat was real, perhaps trillions).
          .
          Don’t get yourself so worked up about Rossi’s spending. The Condo stories are clutter and irrelevant to the real issues. They may have some meaning to those anti Rossi folk intent on turning *every* sneeze Rossi makes, into proof he is the evil person they portray.
          .
          If we come back to reality (devoid of the floods of emotional side issues about Rossi), the *real* issue is “is Rossi still a partner with IH”.
          .
          Also what has sick children got to do with it ? – we know Rossi makes ‘bleeding heart’ promises. In fact he was claiming he *would do*, what we know Piantelli was already doing (Piantelli did substantial work to help cancer patients – it was his main drive in his work).
          .
          DSM

          • JNewman

            April 5, 2016 at 1:02 pm

            If I may intrude with two pertinent pieces of information:

            As I recall, the fuss about Miami real estate pertained to the fact that Rossi had purchased 16 condos. That is not a “few hundred thousand dollars”. Irrelevant? Perhaps, but suspicious.

            As for IH, it is important not to forget how little we know about them. What evidence is there that they are anything more than a paper company formed for the Rossi investment? Yes, the money came from Cherokee and/or its principals. But if they are genuinely a company with plans and ambitions beyond buying an LENR lottery ticket, they sure haven’t behaved like one in any fashion. Let’s just say that they cast a miniscule shadow. So if the most important issue is the state of Rossi’s relationship with this barely-a-company, that is not very impressive.

            Just a couple of kernals to add to the grist mill.

          • tony2

            April 5, 2016 at 1:08 pm

            dsm,

            Wow! Another episode of “How the Tortured World of AR Turns”! You have absolutely no clue as to what the arrangements were between the Liar and the Stupids and yet you posit this as if it were truth.

            What is truth is that right after the deal was announce AR acquired millions, not 100 thousands, in condo real estate in Miami. This doesn’t play as the actions of a man who is Hell-bent on bringing the world clean, free energy with a with a shot of curing kids with cancer on the side, does it? Of course it doesn’t. It’s the action of a scammer getting his hands on the mark’s money and then translating that cash into something that will be more difficult for the marks to take back when they realize they’ve been taken.

            I’m way closer to the truth that you are.

            Tony2

          • Frank

            April 5, 2016 at 7:11 pm

            ambitions beyond buying an LENR lottery ticket

            I like the analogy with the lottery ticket – that’s might be the intention of e-cat investors: Risk little money, and in case that Rossi’s e-cats really turn out to work as claimed, become filthy rich – otherwise write off the costs for the lottery ticket.

            However, mysterious is the sequence of the events:
            IH got established in 2012.
            http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1584856/000158485613000001/xslFormDX01/primary_doc.xml
            First shares were sold end of April 2013, around the time when IH personnel visited Rossi in Italy.
            If I remember correctly, then we were told that the first investors were private ones (“likeminded people”).

            Afterwards the 1MW plant and some prototype e-cats were shipped to the “US partner” (according Rossi “says”, supported by some shipping manifest)

            But according to this information from Bloomberg, Cherokees made a private placement into IH only end of Dec 2013, or do I understand this screenshot wrong?
            http://www.cobraf.com/showimage.php?image=/forum/immagini/R_123546037_1.jpg

            Sticking with the Lottery ticket analogy: Doesn’t this mean that IH would have had the possibilty to open and check the value of the lottery ticket, before other new investors (e.g. Cherokee – which, to my opinion would anyway raise the question, isn’t this a conflict of interests?) joined IH?

            And about one thing I am sure:
            If I ever buy a lottery ticket which hits the jack-pot, after I know the value of the ticket, I certainly would not let others ones buy a share of this ticket.

          • grenble

            April 5, 2016 at 8:11 pm

            That’s quite some imagination you’ve got there…

            Cherokee set up Industrial Heat.

            You utter plonker.

          • JNewman

            April 5, 2016 at 9:21 pm

            grenble, if you have the skills, you could sort through all existing legal documents pertaining to Industrial Heat and hunt for the name Cherokee. Hint: you won’t find it. Cherokee has no legal relationship with IH. IH was founded by two guys who are indeed at Cherokee, but that does not mean that Cherokee set up IH – and I am sure their legal counsel will affirm that fact with strong emphasis. But facts are not your forte, are they? Calling people who know more than you do (and that is undoubtedly most people) “plonkers” is more your speed.

          • Frank

            April 5, 2016 at 9:57 pm

            Grenble,
            Can you provide a link which proofs that Cherokee is among the founding investors of IH ?!
            With “Cherokee” I mean any of the Cherokee Investment Partner Funds, and not a person who (coincidentally) is – in addition to his IH involvement – a manager for a Cherokee .

          • Pweet

            April 6, 2016 at 3:35 am

            re: various comments from dsm above

            quote “Part of his deal with IH was that these people had to go (IH would have seen them as a risk plus IH wanted the rights to many of those countries).”

            Wild and baseless speculation which I think is almost certainly wrong.

            quote”So he spends a few $100,000 on real estate in Miami. Big deal !. Why do you see that as sinister – why ?.”

            I didn’t say anything was “sinister”, so why are you asking me to explain why I said something I didn’t say?
            I made a comment regarding Rossi now having more money to run is circus post IH involvement than before IH involvement, and that money came from IH, not a lotteries win.
            The strong indication he got money from them is in the fact he now has numerous condos in Miami.

            quote “Rossi had NO need to put more of his money back into the eCat technology because he still owned a major slice and he now had IH.”

            That statement implies Rossi is now free to request IH to finance his circus while Rossi blows his funds on something real, like condos in Miami, which is what happened.

            quote “The crunch for Rossi would be at what point IH would decide the Venture (as in what VCs invest in) was not going to work out.
            At that point they would tell Rossi – you failed and we are gone.”

            Yes. Precisely that. And that’s where I think we are now. In fact I heard the ‘reverse beeper’ going off about six months ago.

            quote “Don’t get yourself so worked up about Rossi’s spending.”

            Me? Worked up? That’s funny.
            As I have said before, this is just entertainment and has amusement value only. I don’t get worked up over comedy.
            The only people getting ‘worked up’ are those who still believe Rossi has a working technology and they think the whole world is not giving Rossi the adoration he deserves.
            Be assured, if he even had half of it I would be his biggest fan.

            quote “If we come back to reality (devoid of the floods of emotional side issues about Rossi), the *real* issue is “is Rossi still a partner with IH”.”

            If we ‘come back to reality’ on all evidence so far, we have to accept Rossi has nothing. That is the reality. Anything else is unsupported fiction.

            As to the last part of your statement, Rossi no longer calls IH his partner. He now uses the term ‘Licensee’. Read his blog. There is a big difference.
            When replying to a question on his blog he signed off a post as the ‘sole owner’ of the ecat IP. “sole owner” means no partner.
            So if that’s the “real issue” for you, the question has well and truly being answered.
            I suggest you step back fifty paces and shore up your next defendable position.

      • Mary Yugo

        April 5, 2016 at 10:00 pm

        Talking about a loss of touch with reality!

        Moreover, in one year and a half of work we found many customers seriously interested in buying the E-Cat, nominally already on the market, and we presented pre-orders and requests for demonstrations to both EFA and Mr Rossi, but we never had any kind of cooperation, we never received the purchasing contracts and it had never been possible to organize e demonstration. As far as we know, also other licensees had customers interested in installing an E-Cat® and they faced similar problems.

        The described situation put both EFA and Leonardo Corporation (Mr. Rossi) under pressure and this could be one of the main reasons why they decided to make their buy-back offer. Obviously we didn’t accept the offer; we had many customers ready to place orders the day after they would have received from EFA/Rossi the purchasing contracts and the due guarantees.

        A few weeks later, in the month of December, we received a formal letter from EFA saying that our license contract was canceled because “we didn’t get enough orders, like it was written in the license contract”!! Obviously this was ridiculous and it was the final confirmation, if still needed, that it would have been impossible to see a working E-Cat®, probably for a long while.

        In the following months we tried in every way to find a friendly solution… etc.

        DSM:

        But it is possible, that part of the deal *was* (we know this) that Rossi had to get rid of all the citizen investors he sold licenses to (a big legal exposure). So IH most likely assisted in that buy back.

        What crap!!!! Rossi repeatedly lied to Aldo Proia,his distributor, and then cheated him by claiming to have ecats for sale and not being able to supply even one. That’s fraud, by the way, Ransom.

        http://www.e-catworld.com/2014/11/24/prometeon-srl-addresses-e-cat-licensee-status/

        • RansomPW

          April 5, 2016 at 11:44 pm

          MaryYugo:

          Again, the above doesn’t fit your overt fraud scenario. It fits the start up product development scenario where the start up couldn’t deliver the product. The License begins by acknowledging the reality of LENR (“This is only a part of the whole story and it lacks of important information about the context and the reasons why we took such an apparently foolish decision, just a couple of months before the release of the second Third Party Report, that we all knew would have been positive” and moved on from Rossi to invest in another LENR company).

          So did Rossi fail to deliver because the whole thing is a sham or because he was too optimistic about delivery. Obviously, Aldo was contending the later, not the former.

          I also know that based on the License Contract I saw posted by Gary Wright, Aldo probably would have had a hard time winning in court.

          The problem with you, Newman and the rest of the people that post here are your failure to understand what you read beyond your own assumptions.

        • dsm

          April 6, 2016 at 12:24 am

          Mary Yugo,
          .
          Is Aldo suing Rossi for this ‘fraud’ ? – is he ?
          .
          Make no mistake, I would not deal with Rossi because I don’t trust what he says. But not trusting utterances is quite a different matter to saying he committed a fraud and then offering no evidence at all that anyone is taking legal action for the alleged fraud.
          .
          Who then has taken action against him (since the eCat) to prove this allegation of yours ?.
          .
          DSM

  20. tony2

    April 5, 2016 at 4:17 pm

    This is interesting. I missed this as it happened but it’s a good read as Gamberale head shots the DGT R5 reactor and exposes some of what DGT did to hide the truth. Reads pretty much like what AR has done all along.

    Tony2

    http://newenergytimes.com/v2/sr/RossiECat/docs/20160226Gamberale-Final-Report.pdf

    • Mary Yugo

      April 5, 2016 at 6:14 pm

      Good find. Those guys were just like Rossi only slightly more overt and flamboyant, arrogant and unpleasant.

      • tony2

        April 5, 2016 at 6:22 pm

        MY,

        What is really important to see is just how easy it was to fake things to give the impression of much, much more heat than was actually produced. Just get a bad number on the flow and have folks that don’t know steam and, Bingo!, you have an overunity device that will change the world.

        As long as nobody else tries to test it, that is. And since DGT said they basically stole the ecat tech, how, then, can anybody actually believe that the ecat was ever anything more than a scam?

        Tony2

  21. Mary Yugo

    April 5, 2016 at 6:06 pm

    A potential partner for KSA to partner with is Industrial Heat LLC that was incorporated in 2012 and is based in Raleigh, North Carolina. This firm has already been granted the license to sell and manufacture energy catalysers “E-Cats” in Saudi Arabia. Therefore, I do not think it unreasonable to envisage the Saudis looking for partners to help start laying the groundwork for commercialisation of LENR within the Kingdom and for export overseas.

    Over the next 50 years the financial fortunes of the Kingdom are going change as dramatically as the skyline of Riyadh and Jeddah.

    https://www.tradingfloor.com/posts/saudi-arabia-prepares-to-break-oil-wealth-dependency-7386201

    (look at the last few paragraphs)

    Oh, Gak! Someone needs to set them straight about Rossi and IH. Oh yeah– Bill Gates and the Saudis giving money to Rossi! ROTFWL! Ransom will eat this up as evidence that the ecat works. I love it, it’s so funny.

    • JNewman

      April 5, 2016 at 6:38 pm

      Mary, as I gently pointed out to Daniel, there is absolutely no reason to believe that there is so much as a glimmer of interest in LENR in Saudi Arabia. The blog posted is merely the opinion of the author that the Saudis *ought to* be interested in LENR and IH. So this is Frank Acland running off the rails based on the musings of one random financial dude who obviously drank the KoolAId.

  22. Daniel Maris

    April 5, 2016 at 6:11 pm

    What is it these whacky Saudi enviro-nuts, forever sinking their money into idealistic nonsense?

    http://www.e-catworld.com/2016/04/05/market-analyst-saudi-arabia-may-invest-in-lenr/

    Just seen that someone else is concerned on similar if not the same grounds.

    • Mary Yugo

      April 5, 2016 at 6:13 pm

      Next you know, they’re going to be helping children with cancer.

      I read Ransom’s response above and I will find the time to answer it perhaps. Right now, I have had my full dose of stupidity for the day, just from glancing at comments on e-dummyworld, so I can’t look at Ransom’s stuff for a while.

    • JNewman

      April 5, 2016 at 6:28 pm

      I am always fascinated by how your mind works, Daniel. Do me a favor and carefully read the article you linked. Does it say that anyone in Saudi Arabia has the slightest interest in LENR? No, it does not. The author of the blog suggests that LENR is the kind of thing that the Saudis should look into and that Industrial Heat could be their partner. So how about if you try to be accurate? Stephen Pope, some British financial guy, thinks that the Saudis ought to look into LENR.

      Reality: Stephen Pope thinks the Saudis should look into LENR.

      Daniel: the Saudis are investing in LENR.

      Can you even tell the difference?

      • Mary Yugo

        April 5, 2016 at 10:02 pm

        Neither Daniel, Shane nor Ransom seems to understand what they read beyond their own assumptions.

        • JNewman

          April 5, 2016 at 10:30 pm

          It isn’t limited to the wonderful world of LENR. We appear to increasingly be living in the Fact-Free Age.

  23. NTAK

    April 5, 2016 at 7:46 pm

    LENR = Dowsing

    I’m just waiting for some clown to tell me dowsing is real.

    • Alexvs

      April 5, 2016 at 8:14 pm

      If you were a keen pupil you should have learned that dowsing has been employed to detect rossitons emitted by E-Cat with great success.

      • NTAK

        April 5, 2016 at 8:37 pm

        I’m sure a dowsing rod could be configured to detect Believers, assuming it was dipped in lead paint.

  24. dsm

    April 6, 2016 at 12:16 am

    JNewman,
    .
    Re the Condos matter – again I argue it is irrelevant other than to create a sinister aspect to the transaction. It offers *no* *zilch* *any* evidence of fraudulent activity.
    .
    You mentioned 30 condos – if true that *is* a lot and *is* a big investment.
    .
    I am aware of this story of a suggested 8 condos with a total est value (at that time of around $1,200,00 or so. http://www.e-catworld.com/2013/10/16/rossi-now-in-florida-real-estate-business/
    .
    Do you know where your other 22 condos come into the picture.
    .
    What does Rossi buying into the condos prove ? – what ?. The only thing I see it proving is (as said before) that if Rossi sneezes he must have just committed a crime. Many here seem to subscribe such a notion as a proven theory.
    .
    DSM

    • JohnP

      April 6, 2016 at 12:25 am

      DSM: if you had a trillion dollar technology, where would you invest your money: said technology or Miami real estate?

      Returns:

      Miami real estate: 5%
      Ecat: 1,000,000% or more

      • dsm

        April 6, 2016 at 2:16 am

        JohnP,
        You might but Rossi already owned a sizeable chunk of his own investment.
        .
        The point people keep missing is Rossi buying real estate is NOT a prime facie case of crime od *any* sort. Just of him making a decision other than what his ‘enemies’ think he should be making.
        .
        So John, what is Rossi’s crime here ?. There isn’t one. But if people want to see it as an evil act then they will irrespective of the facts.
        .
        DSM

    • JNewman

      April 6, 2016 at 12:31 am

      dsm, I don’t know where you got the 30 number. Read my post. I said 16.
      That being said, the only point is the one made by John P. It isn’t sinister. It isn’t criminal. It is just weird and makes no sense if you actually believe Rossi is sitting on the greatest invention in history. But, I suspect that you don’t. You just don’t like anybody casting aspersions on him for reasons I suppose I wiil never understand.

      But I do enjoy listening to all the creative explanations for Rossi’s behavior by many of the poooe who cruise by here. They are much more clever than Rossi’s behavior itself, which positvely screams scam.

      • JNewman

        April 6, 2016 at 12:34 am

        Damned lack of editing on iPads with WordPress. Don’t hunt for “poooe” in the Urban Dictionary. The word is people.

        • Tony2

          April 6, 2016 at 12:45 am

          JN,

          You had the right word the first time.

          Tony2

          • dsm

            April 6, 2016 at 2:17 am

            JFO

    • Tony2

      April 6, 2016 at 12:44 am

      dsm,

      Do your buddy a favor and give him the real reason Krivit went from believer to skep in less than 24 hours. He actually visited AR in Bologna and was given a demo of the ecat. He wasn’t allowed to really see much but when he questioned the steam output, he traced the output pipe back to a wall where it was pumping out nothing but water. When he returned to the room with the ecat, he caught Il Douche in the act of turning up the power on the ecat to make steam. The picture of the glowering AR is featured on Gary Wright’s page.

      “bachcole > psi2u2 • 2 hours ago

      Krivit is NOT a skeptopath. He IS allowing his hurt feelings (Rossi has a tendency to snap at people.) dictate his belief about Rossi. Krivit believes in the reality of LENR and hopes for it’s success. Krivit must have gotten snapped at by Rossi and is childishly holding a grudge. If there is another better explanation why he is an LENR believer and yet likes to dump on Rossi, I would love to hear it.”

      Of course, once you explain it to bachcole it won’t make any difference. But that’s what happened as far as I remember.

      Tony2

      • dsm

        April 6, 2016 at 2:36 am

        Tony2,
        (To this I will respond in the same tone).
        .
        Krivit, as I have said before, is IMHO one of the sharp minds in LENR. If you have or had followed Krivit’s interaction with Piantelli and Rossi, it is not at all hard to understand why Krivit has such an intense (and I am saying that IMHO it is now irrationally intense) dislike for Rossi.
        .
        Krivit was (back in 2010) very close and good friends to Piantelli. Who, discovered his NiH LENR processes while doing cancer research. Piantelli is the epitome of a genuine caring and dedicated scientist/researcher, who was far more interested in cancer research than making money from his accidental discovery of LENR.
        .
        Rossi very quickly impressed Krivit that he was the opposite of Piantelli. Krivit also visted Rossi with hostility in his heart as Krivit had in his posession documented evidence that Rossi had been leeching solutions to Rossi’s NiH problems by getting Focardi to ask Piantelli to solve them, which Piantelli did while not knowing this was being passed back to Rossi. As you will know, Piantelli and Focardi had a long association since when Piantelli 1st came across his NiH effect. The two wrote papers on the advances. From early 2010, Piantelli never spoke to Focardi again – he was so upset at what he discovered Focardi had been doing. Krivit knew all of this prior to his 1st visit to Rossi. It doesn’t matter if Krivit is right or wrong about Rossi because his attitude is tainted (justifiably IMHO) but tainted nevertheless and it is hard to get Krivit to see anything good in Rossi.
        .
        I actually share Krivit’s perspective of Rossi but I don’t consider myself tainted by it (I was 4 years ago when I discovered for myself what had apparently been going on – I was also in contact with Steve Krivit at the time).
        .
        Point here is that if there aren’t any serious and indisputable facts to back up a claim about Rossi, then one has the right to sort the claims into emotional bias vs logical deduction. Too many statements about Rossi fall into the emotional bias bucket and thus even if right are too tainted to take as evidence (other than the emotional bias of the claimant). Krivit has done a slide into that hole.
        .
        DSM

        • tony2

          April 6, 2016 at 2:03 pm

          dam,

          So Krivit did not go to Bologna to meet The Inventor; did not find the hose stuck in a wall pouring water; and did not catch AR at the control turning up the power in a pathetic attempt to make steam?

          And so what about Piantelli. Tell me about his big, powerful, LENR device. There is none. And there more than likely won’t ever be anything with his name attached to it.

          “Too many statements about Rossi fall into the emotional bias bucket and thus even if right are too tainted to take as evidence (other than the emotional bias of the claimant). Krivit has done a slide into that hole.”

          And it seems you followed in right behind him. All of the “evidence” that can be seen points to a scam and not a revolutionary, OU device. It seems like you have a very emotional bias towards LENR in general and AR in particular when, again, all of the evidence points the other way. You seem like a smart guy but you spend quite a bit of time concocting elaborate scenarios to make the things AR does look like the normal course of affairs when one has a trillion dollar idea that could save the world. None of his actions (including pouring money into Miami real estate immediately after announcing the the IH deal) make any sense if what he has is real. The circumstantial evidence points to the e-cat as a scam. Our learned colleague can’t seem to admit that but folks have been rightly convicted on far less.

          And it is true that while AR has not, probably, technically “defrauded” IH because he’s been careful in how things have been done, he, himself, is certainly a fraud. That’s the bitch I have with him. That and the fact that seemingly normal, sane people can’t see through him to the scam.

          Tony2

  25. dsm

    April 6, 2016 at 3:26 am

    Every time someone imputes (without facts) that IH are ‘crooked’, or ‘flakey’, or ‘greedy’ or ‘dishonest’, or don’t exist etc: etc: (or whatever other critique Mary Yugo thinks up), I come back to these words of Tom Darden. They state in a few words what VCs are about. They reiterate succinctly what I have written myself here, using far too many words (seem to have to keep repeating the points).
    .
    “We believed LENR technology was worth pursuing, even if we turn out to be *unsuccessful* ultimately. We were willing to invest time and resources to see if this might be an area of useful research in our quest to eliminate pollution. At the time, we were not especially optimistic, but the global benefits were compelling. ”
    .
    I keep asking myself what parts of Darden's talk does Yugo not grasp (or want to grasp). What part do the other IH attackers & challengers not grasp. My conclusions are not nice ones in regard to those who dispute Darden's points. It unfortunately becomes very easy to rub their noses in their own myopia and intrinsic biases and plain ignorance of the role of VCs.
    .
    DSM

    • JNewman

      April 6, 2016 at 3:43 am

      Darden’s words are plausible. IH is some folks with money who decided to risk some of it on LENR and, to that end, at least started with Rossi. There is nothing fundamentally wrong with that, regardless of my assessment of its wisdom, which is frankly irrelevant to the issue.

      My problem is with the believers who use IH as vindication of Rossi or proof that he is for real or that any of his claims are legitimate. That is manifestly false. So far, IH has never said anything more than vaguely positive and extremely non-specific remarks with regard to the whole business. So all we really know is that they invested. The rest is unsupported assumptions.

      IH has chosen to keep an extraordinarily low profile to the extent that we pretty much know nothing about them. If you have any facts about them that aren’t based on sheer hearsay or, even worse, Rossisay, I’m all ears. Otherwise, they are a vaporware company whose only known content is a checkbook.

      So be clear: the problem is not with IH; it is with the usual delusional gang who uses IH to justify unfounded assertions. Kind of like Daniel and the Saudis today.

      • dsm

        April 6, 2016 at 4:04 am

        JNewman,

        Agree up to the point I have been making ad nauseum.
        .
        1) If Rossi today has a close relationship with IH then the matter IS NOT RESOLVED.
        .
        2) If IH parted company with Rossi and this can be proven, then Rossi has hit a brick wall.
        .
        So Prove 2) – not with biased speculation, or wilful opinion, but factual data.
        .
        DSM

        • JNewman

          April 6, 2016 at 4:26 am

          What matter are you referring to? If IH and Rossi have parted ways, that would appear to be a negative sign. If not, it is a neutral sign. Like I said, we know almost nothing about IH, so their involvement with Rossi tells us nothing other than they have chosen to invest their money on him. At the moment, there are no conclusions to be drawn.

          I have never understood the hyperbolic fixation on IH. They are a new enterprise conveniently initiated to invest in Rossi (and perhaps others later on.) As such, their support means nothing more than that somebody with money wants to risk it on Rossi. Sure, that is better than nobody being willing to invest, but it isn’t like GE or Google or Siemens or… well, anybody with a track record and expertise.

          You are deeply opposed to biased speculation. I would contend that anything said about IH beyond the fact that they invested in Rossi and have not publically disavowed him is biased speculation.

    • dsm

      April 6, 2016 at 4:25 am

      JNewman,
      .
      Further, I come back to this unbelievably simple point that IMHO you won’t actually deal with.
      .
      ” even if we turn out to be *unsuccessful* ultimately”
      .
      You along with Yugo, prefer the ‘dastardly’ tactic of painting IH as mysterious or phantom or some other ‘sinister’ entity when it is abundantly clear they are doing a very VC activity – those words of Darden could not put it any clearer.
      .
      IMHO, You repeatedly ignore the message because you are so focused on your biased commentary. That in turn raises the specter of your ‘real’ agenda. Simple reality does not seem to be in it. Destroying the role of IH does.
      .
      DSM

      • JNewman

        April 6, 2016 at 4:36 am

        You come back to a point that is simply false. I do not contend that IH is sinister or any such thing. I contend that they are a cipher. They have almost no known attributes. You disagree? Tell me about them.

        Does that make them evil? Corrupt? Incompetent? No, it doesn’t. It makes them unknown and pretty much anything you say about them is biased speculation.

        Destroying their role? What is their role? Do you know? Based on what? Something Rossi said? On which occasion? His statements are all over the map and self-contradictory.

        You seem to think you know a lot about IH. Well, maybe you have inside knowledge. As for me, I know pretty much nothing about them that I would consider reliable information. Almost nothing has come from the horse’s mouth. If you want to base your judgement on Frank Acland, good luck to you.

        In the meantime, until and unless IH publicly states exactly where they stand with regard to the Rossi story, I don’t presuppose to know the answer.

        • dsm

          April 6, 2016 at 5:04 am

          JNewman,
          .
          At this point I believe we are at an impasse.
          .
          I have extensive involvement with investment (Angel investment, White Knight investment & VC investment. (As for VCs, specifically KPCB – google them – very successful VC enterprise based in California). My role has been on *both* sides of the activity (investing and seeking investment).
          .
          I am satisfied I know what *I* am talking about.
          .
          Cheers
          .
          DSM

          • maxs

            April 6, 2016 at 6:11 am

            You think they do (a priori) a good good just because it is Venture Capital or investment management? LOL.
            Well, even Bill Gates thinks that success rate of venture capital is “pathetic”.
            http://qz.com/187959/bill-gates-says-the-success-rate-on-venture-capital-is-pathetic-compared-to-development/
            In sites such as linkedin (which is extremely popular among professionals), even years after starting their LENR venture, there are zero employees of Industrial Heat listed. Zero. IH looks more like a paper company.

          • JNewman

            April 6, 2016 at 12:56 pm

            We are an at impasse because we are talking about two different things. I too have lots of experience with VCs but I am not talking about IH’s role as a VC. The believer story is that IH is a technology company with labs and a factory that will develop, test and build ecats. That is not what VCs do. There is also no evidence that it is the case. That is all I am talking about. As for why IH invested in Rossi and what VCs expect from their companies, I don’t have any quarrel with you. My only point in all of this is that we have no evidence that IH’s role in this has been anything other than that of a VC.

          • dsm

            April 6, 2016 at 7:06 pm

            JNewman
            posted “The believer story is that IH is a technology company with labs and a factory that will develop, test and build ecats. That is not what VCs do. “.
            .
            Hmmm, where did this new line come from. ?.
            .
            Not in anything we have been trying to discuss on VCs here, so what does it have to do with what is being discussed.
            .
            You are tacking this unrelated line onto the wrong discussion. It doesn’t clarify MaxS’s issues an any way.
            .
            DSM

          • JNewman

            April 6, 2016 at 7:42 pm

            My comment was directed at all the believers who think that just because IH handed over $12 million dollars, Rossi’s circus is now being run responsibly, honestly and (most importantly) not by Rossi. Clearly there is no evidence of that whatsoever. You and Max can sort out your issues about VCs. I don’t have a dog in that hunt.

      • Mary Yugo

        April 6, 2016 at 7:21 am

        It’s not that complicated or fancy, DSM. In my opinion, when they took on Rossi, IH principals were negligent, incompetent, and didn’t give a damn.

        If they had, they would have relied on high quality information and experts who were truly independent of Rossi and qualified to conduct proper tests. I can’t prove that this didn’t happen but the results speak for themselves. They also failed to consider Rossi’s extensive and very real criminal history and his long chain of lies, contradictions and failures with not one viable product during his entire career.

        They aren’t necessarily evil. They could simply be careless and stupid. I guess they could tell us which but I bet they won’t.

        • Mary Yugo

          April 6, 2016 at 7:37 am

          Hell, a simple internet search and a couple of hours of reading critically would have revealed the arguments against Rossi and who the competent experts and critics were (not including me. necessarily) and who the whackjobs and incompetents were.

          BTW, where is Dick Smith’s support for high power LENR these days? Is Elforsk still admiring and supporting Rossi? Don’t think so!

        • dsm

          April 6, 2016 at 7:40 am

          Mary,
          .
          Thanks for making your position so clear.
          .
          Pont made.
          .
          DSM

  26. dsm

    April 6, 2016 at 7:01 am

    MaxS –
    .
    As usual classic brain dead response fueled by an inherent fd’up bias – sheesh !.
    .
    MaxS rabbits on. “>>You think<< they do (a priori) a good good just because it is Venture Capital or investment management? LOL."
    .
    Now MaxS – where oh where did I say what you just claimed I said ?. You can't quote it because I never said it !.
    .
    AS for so many posts here – you and others, just like you, can not read or digest the points actually being made so you concoct your biased version of what you imagine was said & claim it is what *was* said when it never was. Then in classic brain dead logic you argue your bias around your own manufactured (and unsubstantiated) point.
    .
    IF you want to debate then QUOTE the *real* words used by someone not your own screwed up biased opinion. You are an intellectual gnat. Come back when you can up your game. You and your inability to grasp what gets said is the bane of this cesspit of a blog. You are not alone.
    .
    Cheers DSM

    • maxs

      April 6, 2016 at 7:55 am

      DSM
      It was a question, not a quote. Anyway, if you disagree to that question, why did you then bring up the point of your successful venture capital experience (“I am satisfied I know what *I* am talking about”).
      Many times we hear this story could probably be real because these investment managers and private equity banksters are so smart, they must know in what they invest. They must have made a proper due diligence.
      My experience is opposite. Investment bankers have no clue about technology and fully rely on consultants. If they work with the wrong guy…

      • dsm

        April 6, 2016 at 8:04 am

        MaxS,

        Where did I say ” your successful venture capital experience”.
        .
        My experience was not successful OK !.
        .
        Again you step in put words in my mouth then talk around *your* point. You just don’t learn.
        .
        As I said your lack the intellectual nous to grasp what is being said and that you are driven by your bias and desire to score points (invalid ones).
        .
        Can I kindly suggest you take a 6 month subscription to ‘Lumosity.com”. It *might* do something for you.
        .
        DSM

        • maxs

          April 6, 2016 at 8:23 am

          above you posted
          “I have extensive involvement with investment (Angel investment, White Knight investment & VC investment. (As for VCs, specifically KPCB – google them – very successful VC enterprise based in California).”
          So you said you were involved and the VC company operated successfully. Wasn´t that your post?
          Is that not “a successful experience?”

          • dsm

            April 6, 2016 at 8:38 am

            MaxS,
            .
            Read my lips ‘N-O’ – the point I made was explaining experience in dealing with various types of investment organizations. You repeatedly leap on anything said that you think you can hone in but just keep getting it wrong.
            .
            It *was no*t a lead in for *you* to find a new avenue of attack based on your undeniable biases and mis-interpretation of the point being made.
            .
            I repeat you are logic deprived and don’t seem to grasp it. JFO.
            .
            DSM

          • maxs

            April 6, 2016 at 8:57 am

            There is no point in further discussing your exact quotes or whatever you have or might have implied with that. This is pointless.
            The issue of relevance here is how do VCs operate, whether we have any reason to assume they operate in an utmost diligent and professional manner, just because they are VC, and whether they must have done a proper due diligence, just because they are VC. Many people obviously assume so, and base their confidence on that point.
            If you disagree or don´t want to discuss this, also fine, just ignore it.

          • dsm

            April 6, 2016 at 9:02 am

            So no apologies to exchange ?.
            .
            Fine. Next time you try the same dishonest brain-dead tactic be prepared for what you get back. It won’t be nice.
            .
            Cheers.
            .
            DSM

          • maxs

            April 6, 2016 at 9:11 am

            You really think I should apologize? LOL

          • dsm

            April 6, 2016 at 9:19 am

            No,
            .
            Actually was sure you wouldn’t. You appear not to know what to apologize for which as far as I can tell is what gets you into these dumb logic traps.
            .
            Cheers D

          • maxs

            April 6, 2016 at 9:36 am

            Blablabla.
            Besides, we will always remember what Gary Wright wrote about Douglas Stuart Marker (but perhaps it wasn´t about you?):
            http://shutdownrossi.com/law-legal-issues/gary-wrights-personal-answer-to-douglas-stuart-marker-dsmdoug-marker/

          • dsm

            April 6, 2016 at 9:47 am

            You dumb twerp 🙂 – so now you are out to prove without doubt why you post on my comments here LOL – (malicious intent – no debate ).
            .
            I am happy with every word said about Gary Wright written there because I would say EVERY WORD again.
            .
            To this day I don’t know what Wright was trying to prove other than what a ratbag he was then and is today. The points he attributes to me are all good descriptions of him even if he rambles on in a very (typical ) confused way while trying to explain them.
            .
            My oh my.
            .
            MaxS you really are a brain dead f’wit.
            It was you who repeatedly posted on what I was saying not me chasing you (why would I). So JFO.

  27. Mary Yugo

    April 6, 2016 at 7:31 am

    So did Rossi fail to deliver because the whole thing is a sham or because he was too optimistic about delivery. Obviously, Aldo was contending the later, not the former.

    I also know that based on the License Contract I saw posted by Gary Wright, Aldo probably would have had a hard time winning in court.

    According to Aldo Proia, and I have no reason to doubt him, it went like this:

    1. Rossi told them to sell his megawatt “plants” and he would provide them. He sold them the distributorship for a specified area.

    2. They found clients eager to buy and submitted the orders.

    3. Rossi failed to deliver for whatever reason. It doesn’t matter.

    4. Rossi asked to buy back their distributorship. They figured that if Rossi told the truth, it was worth a lot and he probably was simply going to sell it to someone else for much much more than they paid. So they refused.

    5. Rossi terminated the relationship, citing a part of the contract which said they had to sell a certain number of megawatt plants to keep the distributorship.

    Obviously, they had done their part in securing clients so the only reason they couldn’t meet their contractual requirement was because Rossi could not deliver.

    Now I am not a lawyer but in common language that is fraud — egregious fraud, duplicity, disingenuous behavior and generally acting like the lowest possible scumbag on the part of Rossi. It is entirely irrelevant that Proia did not file a suit and his reasons also don’t change anything.

    Surely there is SOMETHING in contract law which prohibits terminating a license because of an inaction when that inaction is entirely the fault of the party trying to terminate the contract! Ya think maybe? Do I have to consult our in-the-family student lawyer on this (5/6 Esq so far)?

    It reminds me of the old joke about the Menendez brothers — who murdered their parents. The story goes that they then threw themselves on the mercy of the court because they were orphans!

    Go on, squirm out of that set of facts, you “legal weasal”.

    • dsm

      April 6, 2016 at 7:43 am

      Yugo,
      .
      Just try to stay on topic for once!.
      .
      Is Aldo suing Rossi ?
      .
      Yes or No !.
      .
      DSM
      (PS my sympathies are with Aldo)

      • maxs

        April 6, 2016 at 7:58 am

        Of course he will not sue. When Aldo P. got his money back, Rossi let him sign a document to keep his mounth shut. Don´t you think?

        • dsm

          April 6, 2016 at 8:22 am

          Do you ever ‘think’ ?
          .
          D

          • maxs

            April 6, 2016 at 8:26 am

            You ask again and again, would Aldo sue, yes or no, and I explain why he would not.
            WTF is your problem, man?
            I recommend to you to slow down your arrogance a little bit.

          • dsm

            April 6, 2016 at 8:33 am

            MaxS
            .
            Then you just lift your game. You apologize for putting your words in my mouth (repeatedly) and I’ll apologize for calling you brain dead. If not they I will assume your tactics stand.
            .
            Easy
            .
            DSM

          • maxs

            April 6, 2016 at 8:59 am

            Look, you don´t know the meaning of “?”. Mixed up question with quotes.
            Anyway, I think it is better we just avoid further interactions.

    • RansomPW

      April 6, 2016 at 5:23 pm

      That isn’t what the contract says. Read it, don’t assume things. Contract breaches depend on the contract terms. They also depend on other things associated with reality, not fantasy. Since we aren’t privity to reality (Aldo, IH and Rossi know the reality, we don’t), making up facts and assuming things have no place in Contract evaluation.

      If you really want to play Lawyer, go to law school and learn something.

  28. dsm

    April 6, 2016 at 10:27 am

    The questions that matter this week …
    .
    Is IH still associated with Rossi or not ?
    .
    If not then the news of a separation would end Rossi’s credibility in the investment community.
    .
    If IH are still working with Rossi then why ? and what does that imply about success ?
    .
    DSM

    • Jami

      April 6, 2016 at 11:58 am

      You’re talking nonsense – as usual. Rossi never had any credibility with anybody except utter morons such as yourself and Darden – and of course whether or not he’s still “working” with IH has absolutely no impact on his “success” in any way except in terms of whether other morons continue to believe or rather chose to follow the next false free energy prophet from an endless supply.

      The only question that matters this week is why you’re so smug rather than hang your head in shame. The old Defkalion thread is still around, you know. If Monty Python hadn’t already done the Black Knight sketch, they would have certainly be inspired to do so by your display.

      • dsm

        April 6, 2016 at 12:06 pm

        Jami,
        .
        Anything else ? – perhaps a few more insults to round off ? – why hold back ?.
        .
        DSM

      • RansomPW

        April 6, 2016 at 5:02 pm

        Jami:

        Don’t you wish you were as big a moron as Darden? Then instead of being an insignificant, piss poor, peon posting nonsense here, you might be worth 100 million or so and be on the board of many Universities, Corporations and other prestigious institutions.

        You all crack me up.

        • Mary Yugo

          April 6, 2016 at 5:24 pm

          Darden is excellent at lining his own pockets. He’s not so great, as other noted, at running his fund in a way which makes substantial profits for shareholders.

          But even if he were, he’s still a technological dunce and dummy. Had he bothered to search for and use renown and credible people *not* in the LENR business to evaluate Rossi, he would not have given Rossi money.

          Do you really think Rossi fiddled and farted with grossly inadequate or frankly deceitful tests and demos for more than three years before IH came on the scene and then suddenly gave them a valid one?

          Of course we don’t yet know but the most probably reason Darden created IH was because he doesn’t understand the technical and scientific issues, doesn’t know how high tech fraud is conducted by sleight of hand and other deceitful methods, and didn’t know who to ask to evaluate the problem. As long as he could get money to manage, he also probably didn’t give much of a damn.

          Did Darden know about Rossi’s criminal history in Italy and the great environmental disaster he caused? Did Darden know about the phony diploma Rossi bought from a mill? Did Darden know that Rossi wasted millions of DOD funds on thermoelectric converter claims based on a prototype that almost certainly did not exist and that he delivered nothing but junk? I wonder.

          I suspect but can’t prove that Darden got his experts from the usual suspects — people like the NASA goof offs (Dunn, et. al.) or maybe the Swedish blind mice professors and coffee brewing expert Levi, or perhaps Papp-adherent McKubre. For sure, Darden and staff failed to consider all the misgivings about Rossi on the internet — not by unknown and anonymous people like me, but by reputable scientists like Pomp and excellent reporters like Krivit.

          And notice that Woodford refuses officially to discuss ANYTHING about how they vetted or verified Rossi’s work before they gave millions with IH to research LENR. They’re bozoes as well.

          • RansomPW

            April 6, 2016 at 5:33 pm

            Yugo,

            I suspect Darden forgot more in the last hour about all of that then you ever knew. He is on the Board of Governors of RTI International and has access to better technical minds than you every day.

            Again, why don’t you crawl back into the peon hole you came from and let real minds deal with important stuff.

        • Jami

          April 6, 2016 at 5:50 pm

          “Don’t you wish you were as big a moron as Darden?”

          Doesn’t work that way, unfortunately. Just look at yourself. You probably run rings around Darden in terms of being a moron and you’re not rich either.

    • Thomas Clarke

      April 6, 2016 at 4:59 pm

      IH appear to be a Darden investment vehicle for pushing money into LENR research. There was an idea a while ago that Rossi was central to IH plans, and was their CSO. Now it seems Rossi has no such position in IH, who have a “team of great (LENR) thinkers”.

      Your questions don’t mean much because you are trying to fit two alternatives: no association vs working with Rossi.

      It seems more likely that neither is true. Since IH have undoubtedly got some association with Rossi they are not going to pack this in unless Rossi is found guilty of fraud a la Defkalion. Not likely. For IH to denounce Rossi is simply bad for their business even though Rossi is a complete flake. Lack of results is after all something any LENR investor must expect – or if not will learn to expect!

      However I expect IH is not happy with Rossi – even if he had working stuff he’d be impossible to work with.

      Therefore we have IH distancing themselves from Rossi and saying “it don’t work unless we says it works”. Will they say the “1 year test” has worked? I don’t trust them to do a proper evaluation since they did not, it appears, detect the problem with the Lugano Report, and also if they are controlled by “great LENR thinkers” their level of critical DD will be pretty low. Still, it will be interesting to see what happens…

      • FredZ777

        April 6, 2016 at 5:43 pm

        Thomas,

        IH initially raised $11.5 million in 2014. Rossi got some of it, but probably not all. That’s how he got the money to buy the Miami beach condos. Then Woodford invested $50 million in IH. Then Hydro Fusion claims that the “Chinese government” invested another $121 million. This adds up to over $180 million. Given the truly sorry state of LENR “research,” there are maybe a few hundred active LENR researchers on this planet. So how could IH and company spend $180 million on LENR research?? It would seem to me that what they really need is an actual technology that works, not more money. Maybe they have other plans for the money, like having Mossack Fonseca hide it for them?

      • dsm

        April 6, 2016 at 6:54 pm

        Thomas,

        The real point in the reponses re IH is how people like yourself are ‘attacking’ IH with nothing but speculation. You need to because you know the base questions posed have boiled the Rossi issue down to some basic and obvious choices.
        .
        In the same way, it was always entirely predictable that no matter who might be nominated as the person doing the evaluation of the 12 month test, was going to be shredded very quickly. So fast in fact that Yugo began shredding one possible nominee without anyone know if the person was ever involved.
        .
        Some of the hard nosed ones here choose to argue that there never was a 12 month test. Why ?. Because they have proof ? (no none – see JNewman’s posts), but because the test appears to give credence to Rossi’s claims, especially if backed by a serious VC. So every aspect of this has to be attacked.

        .
        The patterns here are attack Darden (see Yuogo’s posts as well as your own), attack IH, discredit IH, attach VCs in general (MaxS’s theme with me). Attack anyone who defends the VC role in the LENR cycle (as can be seen here in the past 2 weeks).
        .
        There is a great lack of credibility in the ‘apparent motives’ of those here who are always on the attack rather than entering into any sustained dialog.
        .
        What these patterns re-affirm repeatedly is the extent of polarization among differing points of view. I am pro LENR research and that underpins the bulk of my commentary. You and Yugo, Newman and Jami etc etc are anti-LENR as a matter of principal. Rossi is side show to that.
        .
        The anti ‘research into LENR’ line is IMHO pathological and has no merit because it is an intent to ridicule any scientist who is willing to investigate a potentially beneficial technology. If a scientist is willing to spend his time seeking to investigate LENR like potential, he should be encouraged not ridiculed. Dragging Rossi’s circus into the LENR research debate is a smokescreen.
        .
        DSM

        • JNewman

          April 6, 2016 at 6:59 pm

          Personally, I am not anti-LENR research. I am anti anyone who asserts that LENR has already been proven to exist and describes anyone who disagrees as a pathological skeptic. I think anyone who thinks that way is batshit crazy. But as for the research, by all means carry on. Perhaps somebody will actually do something convincing.

        • Thomas Clarke

          April 6, 2016 at 7:48 pm

          DSM,

          You are not reading what I’ve written. Where am I attacking IH?

          Any statement about the future is speculative. The difference is that my speculation is in line with past experience and yours seems to be giving benefit of the doubt to free energy quacks.

          Your analysis of the Rossi 1 year test is so full of speculation I don’t know where to start. You can have no idea what level of control IH have over the experimental setup and results.

          One thing you are not considering is that non-scientists are not competent to put proper controls on an experiment, and scientists are not disposed to detect fraud or fraud-equivalent, and so not competent to deal with somone like Rossi who has an enormous talent at generating demos that have weird positive errors.

          Where you have a self-deluded inventor claiming new science there is no easy way for a VC to evaluate things. Scientists will assume honesty. VCs judging people will fail when dealing with somone who seems to be a passionate and eccentric scientist.

          I’m not saying they could not in theory do proper evaluation. But that Rossi on past form resist that and whether IH has both the contractual power and the scientific understanding to push Rossi into making the test rigorous is very unclear.

          Without this proper evaluation they can’t know whether Rossi is a flake. That will make him no different from all the otehr LENR scientists who claim LENR from dubious experiments.

        • JNewman

          April 6, 2016 at 10:40 pm

          My my, dsm. You have the most uncanny ability to get most adamant about an issue just when it blows up completely. I hope you don’t just disappear completely again right when the Industrial Heat saga has gone completely sideways.

          • dsm

            April 6, 2016 at 10:51 pm

            LOL,

            See my comment further down.
            .
            Now we start an entirely new Rossi saga. Just when it looked like coming to an end (of sorts).
            .
            Rossi sure know how to ring bells 🙂
            .
            Main point is no one seems able to work with him.
            .
            DSM

          • JNewman

            April 6, 2016 at 10:59 pm

            I don’t know. People like Levi and Penon seem to be BFFs. I guess you just need the right colored nose, if you know what I mean.

  29. JohnP

    April 6, 2016 at 1:15 pm

    DSM, there is nothing illegal about buying condos in Miami but tell me: if you had a diamond worth a million dollars, would you sell it for a thousand?

    If you do, it’s because you know it’s a fake. The issue is not that skeptics don’t believe in the Ecat, but that ROSSI does not believe in it.

    • Mary Yugo

      April 6, 2016 at 5:32 pm

      It’s a hallmark of high tech scams that their enthusiasts undervalue the claims. If Rossi really had done table top fusion in 2011 with a tennis ball sized device and produced 10kw, he’d have billions and a Nobel by now, regardless of whether or not the crude prototype was stable, lasted long, or was ready for commercial production. Those items are details. The discovery is the thing.

      Same is true with the supposed high efficiency thermoelectric converter Rossi supposedly made in the early 2000’s. Rossi’s excuse that he couldn’t make them cheaply enough and therefore delivered only garbage to DOD was specious and ridiculous and so embarrassed CERL that they essentially went out of business, renamed the surviving branches and closed their original web site. And of course, nobody involved answered questions about the fiasco.

      Believers and self styled “experts” like Ransom often underestimate the importance and value of the original claim as they chase the inane bait claims such as robotic factories, isotopes made cheaply, and hot cats, X cats and Quark cats, none of which do anything other than consume mains power, if they even exist.

      • RansomPW

        April 6, 2016 at 5:43 pm

        I don’t know if he produced 10Kw back in 2011. I doubt it. That doesn’t mean he produced nothing and had squat.

        More importantly, there were a number of tests and demonstrations along the way that would have required overt fraud and can’t be explained any other way. If such fraud was not uncovered during a 12 month test (with a device that allegedly produced 1MW and used 1/20 of that (just using some COP mentioned, I have no idea what will be reported)), then he is a magician. IH will know at this time and so their reaction to all of this will tell me what I want to know.

        You may still be right. Nevertheless, and even so, you are a waste of skin.

        • tony2

          April 6, 2016 at 7:10 pm

          Ransom,

          See, here’s your problem.

          “I don’t know if he produced 10Kw back in 2011. I doubt it. That doesn’t mean he produced nothing and had squat.”

          Of course he produced “something”. The problem is that that something, in every test and demo that’s ever been done, could have just as easily been produced by everyday, run of the mill tech and not some new energy source. And all of the convoluted testing schemes and AR having to insert and remove fuel and power up the device a certain way is far more evidence for a scam that it is for a legit device. A legit device, as has been pointed out here a million times, could be tested in a week with simple methodology and be unambiguous in the results.

          And if he produced something that could have been (was, actually) produced by regular, old tech, then he did have squat.

          And the fraud isn’t overt. (Is there actually such a thing since fraud itself implies falsely representing something and that can hardly be done in the daylight?) He is actively covering up the fraud and selecting people as referees who are either non-experts in the field; predisposed to believing LENR is real; or are outright AR co-conspirators. He’s as covert as you can get.

          And we only have the word of one person as to the alleged 1 year test. There isn’t a soul alive except for AR that knows anything about this test and what actually went on. If there was any kind of a test, you can be pretty sure that the testing; results; and conclusions will duplicate that of the Lugano “indipendent” test and will be summarily shredded by those who actually know something about this stuff.

          Tony2

        • JohnP

          April 6, 2016 at 7:24 pm

          I don’t have enough data to know whether Rossi has a working Ecat or not, but I do know that he’s acting as if he doesn’t have it.

          If I had the Ecat technology I would take every penny I had (and borrow money) to invest in it.

          • tony2

            April 6, 2016 at 8:03 pm

            JP,

            I’d be doing everything possible to make sure folks knew it was real and then I’d sell it for several billion to somebody like GE and take the cash and drink margaritas on the beach for the rest of my life.

            Or, again, do everything possible to make sure that everybody knows it’s real and then license to Boeing for aerospace applications; Ford for automotive apps; GE for home units; etc. and then let the cash roll in and drink margaritas on the beach for the rest of my life.

            Anything but what Il Douche is actually doing.

            Tony2

  30. RansomPW

    April 6, 2016 at 9:05 pm

    So Rossi is suing IH. Maybe Mary can testify for IH. At least with a suit pending, we may finally get to the bottom of this mess.

    Pretty incredible and ballsy if Rossi is trying to scam them. But I for one take IH’s position and I don’t even know what it is yet.

    • Andy Kumar

      April 6, 2016 at 9:16 pm

      Ransom,
      Do you still believe Rossi is not a con artist, a congenital fraud and a clown.

      • RansomPW

        April 6, 2016 at 9:22 pm

        Well he isn’t bashful, and neither is the law firm he hired. Now MaryYugo gets to see how this all works in the real world. If he is a con artist, fraud and clown all IH has to do is demonstrate it by a preponderance of the evidence. In fact, they don’t even need to do that. Just prove that they haven’t breached the agreement. If they can’t, I’d say by law he isn’t no matter what you think.

        • JNewman

          April 6, 2016 at 10:15 pm

          As interesting as it is to try to figure Rossi out, we still are no more likely to reach any conclusion about the ecat itself. Once again, Rossi has gone to another dry well for the next drink to be fed to his adoring public. His new indipendent evaluator is even less indipendent than Levi. Impressive!

  31. tony2

    April 6, 2016 at 9:16 pm

    This is going to be good. Penon was the guy that AR used in the past, right? I think somebody here called that one.

    As much as it pains me to agree with Ransom, this takes balls the size of planet Earth. Of course there is no e-cat and the test results will be debunked but what in the hell does AR think he’s going to gain? Maybe the bastard really is crazy.

    Man, this is better than the OJ trial!

    Tony2

    • JNewman

      April 6, 2016 at 10:03 pm

      Yes indeed. Penon was the guy who performed the worthless Leonardo Corp test of the “Hot Cat” in July, 2012 as well as the following report in October, 2012.

      So we have every reason to be confident of the new report by the “EVR”, a guy who has been working for Rossi for 4 years.

      Make those Jupiter-sized balls!

      • RansomPW

        April 6, 2016 at 10:12 pm

        But why would IH agree to him? I doubt that happened.

        I think it will be enlightening to see what IH has to say.

        • JohnP

          April 6, 2016 at 10:23 pm

          First thing IH has to say, to their investors, is “Sorry!” for ignoring all the warnings about Rossi.

          The investors will probably use more colourful words…

    • Thomas Clarke

      April 6, 2016 at 10:22 pm

      When IH refuses to agree that the test is sound Rossi,(and I bet Ransom etc) can all explain this as sour grapes after the falling out.

      Krivit again. Except with more money.

      • Mary Yugo

        April 6, 2016 at 10:38 pm

        We don’t know anything about what IH did or did not do. It’s all according to Rossi and we all know how THAT goes.

        Going up against a billion dollar company with this sort of lawsuit isn’t brave or gutsy. It’s incredibly dumb and/or simply insane.

        In my opinion, in his own seemingly troubled mind, Rossi may be hoping for some sort of settlement including maybe some go-away money and immunity from further suits. If IH agrees to this, it would be to avoid further embarrassment. And it won’t work.

      • dsm

        April 6, 2016 at 10:39 pm

        Thomas,
        .
        Events are well past that issue now.
        .
        I must admit Rossi jas thrown a spanner in the works by suing IH. We are back to the charade where Rossi split with DGT.
        .
        Rossi’s, tactic to sue IH after a ‘successful’ report sure as hell spins this into another dimension.
        .
        The Rossi circus begins a new season.
        .
        DSM

        • Thomas Clarke

          April 6, 2016 at 11:41 pm

          Don’t you mean – yet more proof Rossi is a spectacular flake which people like you will discount?

          • dsm

            April 7, 2016 at 7:07 am

            Thomas,
            .
            People like *you* use the word ‘prove’ far too freely. What does this activity ‘prove’ ?
            .
            Rossi’s antics are spectacular but if they prove anything it is what an outrageous showman he is. Only a court will ‘prove’ what he just did is fraud.
            .
            DSM

  32. Mary Yugo

    April 6, 2016 at 10:25 pm

    This suit seems mad. But it is sure good for laughs — read it! Hahahahahahahahaha! ROTWFL x 10!

    http://www.e-catworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Leonardosuit01-main.pdf

    • JNewman

      April 6, 2016 at 10:36 pm

      And I thought this circus could not get more ridiculous!

    • Tony2

      April 6, 2016 at 11:02 pm

      My God! From the looks of it you have Darden and Co. even dumber than we all thought; Penon in the picture; Rossi finding the “customer; Fabiani working for IH. WTF!

      It sort of sounds to me like IH realized they got boned and refused to pay AR the 89 mil. But with all of the IH fumbling around (how many now will stand and testify to the brains and acumen of Darden, et al)it’s hard to tell who is conning who here.

      Mary – you mnight be right. Cherokee is in the middle of some bad publicity right now and they can’t afford to let this any traction. Might be a way to milk another couple of mil out of Darden just so they can get rid of him.

      If that isn’t it, though, and IH does some sort of couter suit, it will be very entertaining to see what they rtoss out!

      Like I said, better than OJ!

      Tony2

  33. Mary Yugo

    April 6, 2016 at 10:33 pm

    From the suit:

    In accordance with the License Agreement, and the First Amendment thereto, the parties selected Eng. Fabio Penon as the Expert Responsible for Validation (“ERV”) engaged to perform the Validation Test of the E-Cat Unit in Ferrara, Italy.

    57. On or about May 1, 2013, the ERV performed the Validation Test of the E-Cat Unit, following the test protocol which had been agreed upon by the parties.

    58. Upon conclusion ofthe Validation Test on or about May2,2013,the ERV certified that the E-Cat Unit satisfied each of the Validation requirements within the validation Test period and IH paid to LEONARDO the second payment of Ten Million Dollars ($10,000,000.00) in accordance with the terms of the License Agreement and amendments thereto.

    Here is a situation where I and many others could have saved Darden, Vaughn, Woodford and investors a whole potload of money very quickly and cheaply. Instead, they chose a completely idiotic test of the wrong device by possibly the worst choice of “ERV” that they could have selected. Good going Darden!

    If the above is true, the people who allowed Penon to test, who failed to get a proper examination of his tests by their own choice of independent experts, and who paid this money $20M to Rossi (Yikes!)– they aren’t merely bozoes, they are dumber than dirt.

  34. Prakash

    April 6, 2016 at 10:39 pm

    VINDICATION FOR ROSSI! Pseudoskeptics what are you going to do now?! Have you scumbags found the rocks you’ve crawled out from? Go slithering back!!!

    • JNewman

      April 6, 2016 at 10:41 pm

      And we have a new contender for the stupidest post ever.

      • Prakash

        April 6, 2016 at 10:54 pm

        Yes you!

    • FredZ777

      April 6, 2016 at 11:11 pm

      Could you please come up with a better insult than “pseudoskeptics”? The prefix “pseudo” means “false,” “phony” or “insincere” in the English language, as any dictionary would explain. I can assure you that none of those terms apply to my skepticism, which is rooted in 40 years of experience in nuclear engineering. Perhaps you meant “pathoskeptic,” which is a term that some of your fellow Rossi believers use. There really is no point in your looking any more ignorant than absolutely necessary in a public venue.

      P.S. There will be no “vindication” for Rossi. Now Darden, Vaughn and IH will be on the “pathoskeptic” side. I can assure you that they would like nothing more than to see Rossi convicted of fraud and back in the slammer where he belongs.

    • MaxS

      April 7, 2016 at 6:24 am

      But unfortunately nobody (except the hard core fan community) believes it, as I predicted.
      Remind us again when Rossi appears in CNN or on the cover of Time magazine.

  35. JNewman

    April 6, 2016 at 10:48 pm

    The chess game has an interesting new move. One had to wonder exactly how it was that the salient details of the alleged 12-month test were going to have to remain secret. The excuse of an NDA is rather lame. An NDA issued by whom? IH? Well, that isn’t going to fly. The apparently last-minute “customer” in Miami? What sense does that make? No problem now. All must remain a secret as required by the lawyers. This could keep this whole farce under wraps for years giving Rossi time for Miami real estate to appreciate in value. Meanwhile, the mental defectives at ECW can offer their solidarity to poor Rossi, the victim of the evil venture capitalists.

    • Prakash

      April 6, 2016 at 10:56 pm

      You and your fellow pseudoskeptics are the only evil snakes around. Continuing to vilify Rossi after yet another conclusive test. Shame on you.

      • JNewman

        April 6, 2016 at 11:06 pm

        You are too stupid to reply to.

        • Prakash

          April 7, 2016 at 12:11 am

          You just did!

    • dsm

      April 6, 2016 at 10:57 pm

      JNewman,
      .
      Rossi has blindsided everyone. What a man LOL.
      .
      Another few years of saga and parrying in blogsphere 🙂
      The only certainty I see is that no business entities seem able to work with him.
      .
      Rossi’s claim : “According to the independent third party report, over the 352 day test period, the E-Cat consistently generated energy at a rate in excess of six (6) times the amount of energy consumed by the plant, often generating energy exceeding fifty (50) times the amount of energy consumed during the same period. According to Andrea Rossi, Leonardo Corporation considers the results of the third party test to be “an overwhelming success” and that “the world is one step closer to the realization of a commercially available new, clean and efficient energy source.”
      .
      DSM

      • dsm

        April 6, 2016 at 11:04 pm

        And …
        “The results of Dr. Penon’s test was consistent with the measurements >>taken by the representatives of Leonardo Corporation and Industrial Heat respectively<< during the course of the test” said inventor Andrea Rossi.
        .
        It makes sense that IH would be doing their own testing in parallel with the ERV.
        .
        We still do not know what Rossi has. BUT, this action will sure light a few fires.
        .
        DSM

      • Tony2

        April 6, 2016 at 11:05 pm

        dsm,

        And that’s all it is again – AR says backed by the help of the known players in a venue he picked – just as most suggested it would be. But I have to admit – you nailed it. Blindsided is too benign a word to use here.

        Tony2

        • dsm

          April 6, 2016 at 11:12 pm

          I Agree 🙂
          .
          The claims coming from the report are ‘electric’ (maybe 😉 ) – and can only ignite bigger sparks all round.
          .
          Those who oppose & those who see them as final proof.
          .
          It is a take your pick menu !.

      • JNewman

        April 6, 2016 at 11:10 pm

        Although I doubt that it would shed any light on the real issues here, it would be quite fascinating to hear from IH at this point. They are a closely-held entity, so they really don’t have any real incentive to say anything. On the other hand, the lawsuit calls out Cherokee, which does have a public presence. So they may have to say something. Of course, that is most likely to be along the lines of “we cannot comment on a pending legal matter.” But we can hope that they will ignore common sense and sling mud back at Rossi. That would be quite entertaining and would probably cause ECW to blow apart at the seams.

        Good times!

        • Daniel Maris

          April 6, 2016 at 11:37 pm

          Well of course IH’s viewpoint is crucial – on that I would agree. If they have evidence of fraud that would be damning. But equally, if they don’t well we are left with the issue of what to make of this as yet unconfirmed technology. The other thing I hope will come out of the court case is the ID of the facility but I am not holding out too much hope.

      • dsm

        April 6, 2016 at 11:10 pm

        Actually should have added the other words in front …
        .
        as >>both desired independent third party verification<< of the sustainability of the energy production of the E-Cat over a prolonged period. “The results of Dr. Penon’s test was consistent with the measurements taken by the representatives of Leonardo Corporation and Industrial Heat respectively during the course of the test” said inventor Andrea Rossi."

  36. dsm

    April 7, 2016 at 12:00 am

    Some probabilities and possibilities that can be drawn from the saga …
    .
    – There *was* a 12 month test.
    .
    – There was an ERV
    .
    – IH also had their own tester separate to ERV
    .
    – IH paid up part 2 of their apparent $20m deal
    in recognition of the 12-month test meeting the set goals
    .
    – So, IH will have their data on the reality of LENR
    (don’t under estimate the value that alone has to
    them)
    .
    – Rossi (the man with the quirky personality) goes
    to war with IH (will this really matter ?, is it
    just a case of Rossi trying to shakedown IH ?)
    .
    – Did IH file a patent on Rossis’s process
    (I recall they did ? – can anyone verify)
    .
    DSM
    .
    Future speculation can include …
    .
    – Rossi will announce a factory venture in Sweden.

  37. RansomPW

    April 7, 2016 at 12:02 am

    Well I read the complaint. IH better have evidence that the ERV report is bogus. If they don’t, the crap Mary spits out is not going to help them at all. It never would. This should be simple unless IH screwed the pooch which looks possible.

    What did they think was going to happen the last year? I guess we will find out.

    • dsm

      April 7, 2016 at 12:12 am

      Ransom,
      .
      Mary Yugo barely even knows his own name.
      He shifts his targets to suit and ignores it when any of his wild accusations get discredited. He simply opens a new volley on a new front.
      .
      Yugo is rabidly anti-LENR and rabidly-anti Rossi. Being anti-Rossi is easy to understand, being rabidly anti-Rossi is pathological.
      .
      I am anti-Rossi. Just don’t like him. But he has not been proven to be the fraud Yugo rants about. But what I think of Rossi is irrelevant. Rossi is the ringmaster supreme.
      .
      DSM
      .
      PS did you read in the report that IH had to come up with another $100 million ?

      • RansomPW

        April 7, 2016 at 12:27 am

        Yep, $100 million isn’t chicken feed. They better have the evidence because the Silver firm is capable of making them pay if they don’t. If the Ecat doesn’t work at all, a one year test of a 1Mw plant should be the easiest thing in the world to prove. And they apparently have someone they contracted to act as an EVR saying just the opposite. They need a good lawyer.

        • Mary Yugo

          April 7, 2016 at 2:09 am

          Any of the tests Rossi did would have easily proven that the ecat doesn’t work. The problem which you don’t seem to even comprehend, is that Rossi’s mismeasurement methods were accepted by the incompetent scientists and journalists who saw the demos, so eager were they not to offend the Great Il Douche. If instead they had required even ONE proper calibration and had tested for trick wiring, Rossi would have been done for in early 2011 and we would not be having this discussion and IH would not be in deep doodoo.

          If Penon simply placed his instruments where Rossi told him to, they could have run the experiment with any power ratio (COP) and continued until the cows came home and the result would still have been whatever Rossi wanted it to be.

          Anywhere along the way, a single test with proper calibration and avoidance of trick wiring would have shown that the ecat makes no excess heat.

          That is what happened when Hydrofusion tested the ecat for investors ready to give Rossi $65M. The test was conducted by SP Technical Research Institute of Sweden and showed no excess heat. The investment was cancelled. You can read about this here:

          http://www.nyteknik.se/energi/svensk-investering-i-e-cat-hejdad-efter-test-6403722

          (in Swedish, Google translate is your friend).

          Inconveniently for Rossi, SPTRI knew how to test for excess heat, even in the presence of deliberate, calculated and pretested deception. IH’s “experts” did not.

      • Mary Yugo

        April 7, 2016 at 2:03 am

        DSM, from your writing, I’d venture that you’re a perfect mark and have been scammed again and again. You don’t seem much smarter or more capable than my pet rock.

        • dsm

          April 7, 2016 at 2:14 am

          Mary, I love you too 🙂

          Hugz

          DSM

  38. Daniel Maris

    April 7, 2016 at 12:16 am

    Well the story becomes yet more fascinating…

    Did IH/IPH find it impossible to raise the £89million required? If so, why?

    Did IH really fail to provide the testing facility back in Aug 2013? If so, why? Sheer incompetence? If so, doesn’t that lend credence to the E Cat being a genuine technology?

    Did IH’s reps decide that the E Cat was bogus and report that back to IH? If so, why did that not become apparent much earlier on?

    Were IH planning legal action? If so, is this Rossi’s “get your retaliation in first”?

    We now know the testing facility was in Miami…any candidates?

    Who is Barry West? Do we have any bio details on him?

    Well, Gary and Mary always wanted to see Rossi in court…I guess it might actually happen now but not perhaps in the way they wanted.

    • Prakash

      April 7, 2016 at 6:07 am

      I think Barry West is the Flash

  39. Frank

    April 7, 2016 at 12:24 am

    Wow, the ERV report claims a “COP of 50+”, and instead of celebrating and calling the Chinese that they may start with the construction of the “robotized production lines” so that they all can make a fortune and save the world, IH now is not willing to pay Rossi.
    I guess IH must have good reasons why they don’t pay, right?
    Whether they also had made a sound contract, or if Rossi may milk them further… we will watch and enjoy the show.

  40. JNewman

    April 7, 2016 at 12:26 am

    Snarling dog Prakash does provide insight into the mind of the true believer. The news today is:

    The “independent” test was once again performed by an old Rossi crony.

    Rossi is suing his partner/funder/source of validity – the marriage is over.

    Rossi says the test was successful.

    That is what we read. What true believers read was:

    The test was successful.

    This is the mental equivalent of having severe tunnel vision.

    • RansomPW

      April 7, 2016 at 12:30 am

      Newman

      What interests me is the fact that the person IH agreed to act as an independent verifier, has verified. Now that is a particularly bad fact for IH.

      • Tony2

        April 7, 2016 at 12:45 am

        Ransom,

        That one is a puzzler. If I’m IH I don’t want anybody who has ever heard Rossi’s name acting as the ERV. Why would you accept Penon?

        What if they didn’t agree to it?

        That might jibe with IH being unable to find anybody in the presumably deep world of connections they’d have in the green world. Christ, they could have parked the thing in Brad Pitt’s driveway and done the test.

        What if the line about IH being unable to find a test site is untrue and AR went off on his own with Penon to some place and then after dicking around for a year, showed IH the results which they simply don’t agree with.

        But that doesn’t explain Fabiani apparently working for/with IH or IH’s attempt to file some sort of patent. Maybe it is just two con artists going at one another.

        Tony2

        • RansomPW

          April 7, 2016 at 1:02 am

          Tony2

          Did you read the contract? The independent verifier for the one year test was going to be “The EVR (so Penon who did the first test OR another Mutually acceptable person”.

          Because of the contract language IH was stuck with Penon unless Rossi agreed on someone else. Good contract work there!

          • Mary Yugo

            April 7, 2016 at 2:13 am

            And extremely bad and stupid work by IH and its attorneys. And guess who bears the responsibility. And BTW, it is highly probable that the rest of his multimillion boondoggle will go the same way. Brillouin, Miley, Swartz, Celani, MFPM and all the rest look no better than Rossi when it comes to proving the existence of high power LENR.

          • tony2

            April 7, 2016 at 12:44 pm

            I missed that. But, as MY says, pretty dumb on the part of IH. It’s OK for me to miss it but for them with a staff of lawyers on call, not so good.

            Tony2

        • JNewman

          April 7, 2016 at 1:05 am

          Well, if this law suit actually goes forward, for the first time ever we might get someone else with privity (as Ransom is inclined to say) providing their side of the story. That would be interesting. Or perhaps there is a judge somewhere who, for the right amount of encouragement, would accept Frank Acland as the sole expert opinion and that would be the end of that.

    • Daniel Maris

      April 7, 2016 at 12:42 am

      But as far as we know, IH have not done so much as write a letter to Rossi expressing concern about the validity of the E Cat technology. In fact all they appear to have done is go around the world filing patents for E Cat-like technology. Of course they may be a letter, or e mail , or whatever…presumably we will find out when IH respond. But if their response does not impugn the technology per se, then I will count that as significant points to Rossi’s crediblity.

      • JNewman

        April 7, 2016 at 1:07 am

        Daniel, I don’t think Rossi putting a full-page ad in the New York Times declaring himself to be a fraud would hurt his credibility in your eyes.

        • Daniel Maris

          April 7, 2016 at 1:17 am

          What would convince me something was awry would be if IH had pulled out earlier or launched a legal action for return of money already invested or reported Rossi to the authorities – it appears as far as we know that none of those things has happened. It may be IH are caught between a rock and a hard place (reputational damage versus letting Rossi get away with it) , but you can’t deny that Rossi has given them the perfect opportunity to set the record straight about how they have been defrauded. But I sense that none of the skeps here are inclined to say that IH will take up the opportunity.

    • MaxS

      April 7, 2016 at 8:08 am

      Apart from the fact that the ERV (Penon) has worked for Rossi before, Rossi also selected the customer. See civil complaint & demand for jury trial where it states (64.)

      Rossi and Leonardo located a customer in Miami, FL

      These are all the criteria skeptics have predicted. Red flags – once again.
      Those who were neutral (or believers) expected customer and examiner to be chosen be IH.

  41. dsm

    April 7, 2016 at 12:43 am

  42. JohnP

    April 7, 2016 at 1:41 am

    Here’s a question for our resident legal eagle:

    don’t you find it curious that everybody and everything is named in the suit except the “customer” where the Ecat was tested? Are there legal reasons to keep it incognito?

    • Ransompw

      April 7, 2016 at 2:00 am

      JohnP

      The location can’t be hidden in the course of the lawsuit but is probably irrelevant to the actual claims which is the purpose of a Complaint, so the lack of disclosure in the Complaint is probably done to keep it nonpublic initially.

      • JohnP

        April 7, 2016 at 2:05 am

        Thanks.

      • Mary Yugo

        April 7, 2016 at 2:16 am

        Wouldn’t you expect the “customer” to testify? — about his role in setting up the test and the equipment and about the money, if any, which he saved on power, what he knew about the connections to the power lines, what he had seen of the equipment and data, and on and on… hard to believe he would not be subpoenaed by the defense or in a countersuit by IH. Unless of course, it’s just another Rossi croney.

        • Ransompw

          April 7, 2016 at 3:05 am

          Of course he’ll be a witness. That is a given.

          • JNewman

            April 7, 2016 at 4:22 am

            I would not be so certain about that if the customer is indeed the entity currently suspected.

          • Ransompw

            April 7, 2016 at 4:59 am

            I don’t follow. The alleged customer will be good fodder for one side or another. One side or the other will elicit testimony from him (it).

          • JNewman

            April 7, 2016 at 12:34 pm

            If, for example, J. M. Chemical was a virtual company set up by Rossi’s lawyer that rented space in Miami for Rossi to pretend to be doing his test at the site of a real industrial plant, that would be material and would certainly be a key issue for the defense. But It is not clear how the “customer” would testify in that scenario.

          • JNewman

            April 7, 2016 at 12:40 pm

            Such a theory could be checked out. I am not an expert on the chemical industry, but I would expect that a chemical company whose activities require the use of a 1 MW power source would at the very least have (1) various operating permits and (2) employees. One would think that there would be records of such things in Dade County, were some enterprising soul to seek them out.

    • Frank

      April 7, 2016 at 2:20 am

      Since the last attachement to this agreement is about JM Chemical Product Inc,
      http://www.sifferkoll.se/sifferkoll/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Rossi_et_al_v_Darden_et_al__flsdce-16-21199__0001.2.pdf
      the “customer” is very likely that entity.

      This company name poped up quite some time ago already, because the registered agent is Henry W Johnson, the same lawyer which acts also as registered agent for Leonardo Corp.
      Click here for Florida Company filing for JM Chemical Products (which got renamed to JM Products)

      • JNewman

        April 7, 2016 at 2:51 am

        Well, if anybody can figure out what business JM Chemical Products is in, or if there is anybody associated with the company apart from Henry Johnson, that would be interesting. As for the facility, it is handsomely depicted here:

        http://warehousespaces.com/warehouse-for-rent/United-States/FL/Doral/2082

        Perhaps it is already available to the next customer who needs a place try out a nuclear reactor in their “factory”.

        • FredZ777

          April 7, 2016 at 4:10 am

          Awesome find. Thank you.

        • MaxS

          April 7, 2016 at 12:50 pm

          see below
          It looks like a paper where the registered agent (Henry W. Johnson in Boca Raton) is put in place as a director. Quite unusual for a real business operation. Rossi himself or one of his associates could be behind this.
          Some people suggested the large UK corporation Johnson Matthey is behind this. But where is the evidence for that? And would they put an external lawyer as director?
          And besides, Leonardo has the same registered agent.
          Honni soit cui mal y pense……..

        • grenble

          April 7, 2016 at 12:59 pm

          ‘Fraid not Newman: That’s the address for J&C chemical products, not JM Chemical products.

          Also it should be noted, as I mentioned earlier, that Cherokee did set up IH, at least according to Rossi’s lawsuit, however the information could be found elsewhere, you just have to look closely…

          http://goo.gl/10T5fV

  43. Mary Yugo

    April 7, 2016 at 2:00 am

    I think this is simpler than it seems. Along the way, IH signed a stupid contract due to negligence and/or incompetence, just as they had done poor quality due diligence on Rossi.

    Further along the way, they (Darden and Vaughn) received (or should I say were privy to) lots of letters, some from very reputable and well known nuclear scientists, physics PhD’s and many others. I have a few such letters of which people sent me copies under the condition I not release them or name the individuals. These letters point out mainly that prior test protocols were lacking solidity and testing should be viewed critically. Also Rossi was not to be trusted.

    I suspect IH realized they’d been had and that’s when they probably told Rossi they wanted different tests or more tests or a different “ERV” (not a normal acronym BTW). Rossi told them to pound sand and when Penon, probably paid off by Rossi or so incompetent he swallowed Rossi’s BS, signed off on the test, Rossi hit IH up for the big bucks and sensing the scam, IH and Darden refused to pay.

    Unfortunately, contracts are still contracts so the courts will have decide if this one is valid. I am no lawyer but I have seen courts require further independent tests, as in the libel case of Sniffex vs the James Randi Foundation. When the court did that, Sniffex immediately dropped the case because they knew that independent experts would find their explosive detector worthless and dangerous. I hope something like that happens to Rossi but indeed, he may be hoping for a settlement that Darden might make, just to be rid of him and that completely insane contract.

    • Ransompw

      April 7, 2016 at 2:06 am

      That is reasonable but I would have expected IH to take preemptive steps. Maybe they did, but none are visible at the moment. So their response to this will be interesting.

      It also doesn’t help them that they have publically supported him and have filed patents based on his alleged technology even after they may have been suspicious. Bad contract or not, there are steps which should be taken under these circumstances.

    • dsm

      April 7, 2016 at 2:07 am

      mary
      It is always simple when you state as fact what idiots everyone else are.
      .
      It is even simpler to regard you as rabidly obsessional.
      .
      DSM

      • Mary Yugo

        April 7, 2016 at 2:17 am

        DSM, you’re embarrassing yourself. If you have contrary facts to what I say, state them. Otherwise, STFU.

    • Frank

      April 7, 2016 at 3:18 am

      I’m looking forward to follow how IH/Darden will explain this latest developments to Woodford and to the Chinese.
      Remember the power-point presentation for the Baoding Sino-US park http://www.cobraf.com/forum/immagini/R_123606721_1.pdf
      Btw: The presentation seems to be no longer available for download from the original server http://chinauspark.com/appUpdata/file/20140925/20140925152226_9375.pdf

    • FredZ777

      April 7, 2016 at 3:31 am

      The best defense for IH, Darden and Vaughn will be to argue exactly what you said: they were duped by a fraudster. All they have to do is to prove that the E-Cat has never worked, does not work and never will work as Rossi describes it. Piece of cake. Rossi will end up paying IH’s legal fees and get free room and board in the slammer again. Clearly, Rossi has no clue as to who he’s messing with. Rich people like Darden do not like to be sued in Federal court, especially not when they would be personally liable. IH and Darden will be fighting on the other side now. Good luck, Rossi, you dopey delusional lunatic.

  44. dsm

    April 7, 2016 at 2:28 am

    Mary
    .
    Putting our lovefest to one side – and considering the technical content of your post. I only see one option …
    ** IH will have to file a counter suit **
    .
    If they don`t Rossi is the driver. If they do then the telling part will be if they say anything about the test and the test outcome.
    .
    DSM

  45. MaxS

    April 7, 2016 at 5:58 am

    So Penon is the guy? LOL.
    Remember, people, I made exactly this prediction a couple of days ago, when other people suggested it was this Florida guy.
    Now, how independent is that guy? He was (mis)used before in 2012 by Rossi. Very likely, Penon was chosen by Rossi, not by IH. Why chose somebody with an ecat history?
    Besides the question of integrity there is the question of competence. Even Jed Rodwell, an old LENR supporter, had serious issues with his competence: “Problems with 2012 Penon report”
    https://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg108858.html

    • tony2

      April 7, 2016 at 1:52 pm

      Max,

      As Ransom pointed out, the way the contract is written, EITHER ERV that was used in previous tests (Penon) OR some other ERV as selected by the AR and IH (apparently never done) would be used for the 350 day test. So that put Penon in the driver’s seat and AR riding shotgun.

      Pretty good wording and seems to me to be more indicative of a scam. If it was real, I’d expect that the docs would show AR as willing to accept whatever IH wanted since the results would be good no matter who the observer was.

      But, the legal world is one filled with cross and double-cross so who knows just what the intent was.

      And kudos to you! You did call Penon back before this was known!

      Tony2

  46. Prakash

    April 7, 2016 at 6:01 am

    I am glad Rossi has sued IH. I knew those snakes could not be trusted. Rossi has conclusively proven the ecat works. Guys, the cop was 50!!!

    It is obvious what has happened here. IH has tried to shaft Rossi out of his hard earned work. They know the eCat works, they have his secrets and want to go it alone and steal all the $$$.

    • MaxS

      April 7, 2016 at 6:51 am

      Earlier Darden and company were the heros, trustworthy, genius investment managers.
      Now they are “snakes”. Take whatever fits to your agenda, fellow.

      • JKW

        April 7, 2016 at 1:56 pm

        His agenda is just trolling. Very much like GW’s.

    • dsm

      April 7, 2016 at 8:53 am

      Prakesh,
      .
      Sadly everyone (all) who have tried to partner with Andrea Rossi have each had an explosive falling out.
      Every single one of them !.
      .
      What does that tell you about Andrea Rossi ?.
      .
      DSM

  47. Prakash

    April 7, 2016 at 6:16 am

    From Job001 @ecw:

    The great news is, “Lawyers fight over SOMETHING, not nothing.” Thereby LENR is NOW SOMETHING worth fighting for!

    • MaxS

      April 7, 2016 at 6:47 am

      Exactly right. They fight for 89 mio$. They don´t want to pay.
      Would they do that if they trusted the report? No.

  48. MaxS

    April 7, 2016 at 8:01 am

    In the civil complaint it is mentioned that said patent was filed without Rossi´s consent (133).
    Thomas Barker Dameron is one of the inventors (86c)
    So, the patent of concern must be this one: http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?CC=WO&NR=2015127263A2&KC=A2&FT=D&ND=4&date=20150827&DB=&locale=en_EP
    US equivalent is this:
    http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?II=1&ND=5&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=20160225&CC=US&NR=2016051957A1&KC=A1
    But Rossi is also an inventor here. An inventor must sign a patent before it can be submitted to patent office. How can Rossi sign it without consent?

    • grenble

      April 7, 2016 at 1:12 pm

      How many US patents have you applied for? Zero?

      • MaxS

        April 7, 2016 at 1:26 pm

        I have more granted US patents in my name as inventor and co-inventor than Rossi. And always I had to sign various documents.
        Check up the process on the website of USPO.

  49. Alexvs

    April 7, 2016 at 8:15 am

    What a world! Instead of sueing Rossi for fraud, Rossi sues IH for not paying 89M$. In a certain sense this is an explosive end of chapter (the story continues).
    Among all these legalities, the long string of lies has diluted. What about the secret customer? Where is the 350 days long energy in/out ratio? COP > 50 has no meaning if not integrated along a reasonable time to exclude the pumping effects.

    I do not like the Standard Model. It has a lot of unexplained holes but it works admirabily well and its accuracy up to day is extraordinary. Predictions and prohibitions are well proved. Lack of proper testing and wrong interpretation of the tests performed under Rossi’s surveillance made clear that the whole thing is a fiasco, to say the least. No matter, once this chapter closed, new E-Cat versions always with more and more wonderful properties will appear on Rossi dreams. Let us wait for.

    What about IH, Darden, Vaughn? Really I do not care.

  50. MaxS

    April 7, 2016 at 9:23 am

    Henry Johnson, who signed as president on behalf of Rossi´s “customer” JM Chemical Products, is also the registered agent for Leonardo Corporation and is listed as president of Leonardo!
    http://search.sunbiz.org/Inquiry/CorporationSearch/SearchResultDetail?inquirytype=EntityName&directionType=Initial&searchNameOrder=LEONARDO%20P100000912200&aggregateId=domp-p10000091220-e18d294e-6d0c-4011-a0a4-ba045b78b5b0&searchTerm=Leonardo&listNameOrder=LEONARDO%20G370440
    Here is the record for J.M. Chemical Products
    http://search.sunbiz.org/Inquiry/CorporationSearch/SearchResultDetail?inquirytype=EntityName&directionType=Initial&searchNameOrder=JMCHEMICALPRODUCTS%20P140000561170&aggregateId=domp-p14000056117-f1b317f1-99eb-48c8-9cce-18b618a70d75&searchTerm=JM%20Chemical&listNameOrder=JMCHEMICAL%204821020
    Also here, Henry Johnson is registered agent and officer/director.
    It seems Henry Johnson is a law office for company incorporations. It looks like he was used as a shill to camouflage the real ownership of that company. Perhaps installed by Rossi himself?
    I can´t find so far a record of any real business of this company (but search ongoing). So far looks like a classical paper company, further confusion by name change. Also, no records before 2014.
    Why would they even need 1 MW power?

    • MaxS

      April 7, 2016 at 1:00 pm

      this is the guy who is president of Leonardo, director of Rossi´s “independent customer”, and registered agent for both companies:
      Henry W. Johnson (law office)
      http://www.hwjlaw.net/who-we-are.html
      The man who signed the document for JMC. Obviously this is not the real manager of that “chemical company”

    • tony2

      April 7, 2016 at 1:58 pm

      Max,

      I think it’s pretty obvious at this point that the “customer” was nothing more than a warehouse in Miami where AR parked the container and left it. This is more than likely the same container that was shipped out of Bologna years ago with a new coat of paint and a bunch of new, empty boxes inside. There was no customer with any real need for heat.

      Having this Johnson character’s name all over everything stinks to high Heaven.

      Tony2

      • JNewman

        April 7, 2016 at 2:26 pm

        Believers argue that this can’t be a scam because of its intricacy and scope. But the truth is that Rossi doesn’t even try very hard. He uses the same shills for his “independent tests” over and over again and his “customers” are fictitious entities. I guess he caters to the lowest common denominator and it works for him.

        At least the lawsuit is new territory. Keeps the entertainment value high.