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STMicroelectronics LENR Patent

September 23, 2013

Developments in the CF arena may be slow but there are occasional surprises dotted on the way. One such is the revelation of a Patent application by STMicroelectronics. There is no doubt that this is LENR. It is in the title. The application is very specific and unlike AR’s patent apps, is extremely professional. I have only skimmed it to be sure it is worth discussion. It certainly is. Filed in February this year and with a priority date of Feb 2012, it is evident that some quarter of STM (Italian?) has a keen interest in the subject.

Much time is spent in explaining the control mechanism but it goes further than that. This device is described in great detail. It does not seem to be trolling. I did wonder if a small group within the company had been convinced by external events such that they knocked up a ‘just in case’ patent but on reading further, I doubt that is the case. This appears to be a serious attempt at staking a claim on a device they had painstakingly constructed and used to effect. What that effect is, we cannot be sure. I am tempted to conclude that they have built such a device and obtained results worth protecting. As always, however, sober reflection is a canny strategy and I will hold off the knee-jerk reaction until further reading.

I welcome your thoughts. Those qualified to do so, please examine the patent carefully and share your view in the comments section so that we all might learn something.

 

http://www.google.com/patents/US20130243143

 

[With thanks to pagnucco at Vortex]

Posted by on September 23, 2013. Filed under Close Up,Competitors,Hands-On. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

2,846 Responses to STMicroelectronics LENR Patent

  1. GreenWin

    January 24, 2014 at 5:19 am

    Jeez Willy I hopes I din’t put a chaibosch onna youz site here Willy.

    I wuz thinkin’ since this guy Rossie Andrea whatevva, is cauzin us bros like a “torn inna side” (my Pastah at Saint Fugdatrute tole bout me it) letz jus get ridda the prollem! Know whadda I mean? Letz WHACK the fugga Willie! Prollem solved! Dig?

    Hey, say I talk to Tony2. He’ze gotta guy. You know. A little cash down to pull the fuggin torn? E Z. You in Willy?? Cause robo iz, an prolly Noman (dis guy scaffs OT lika leggend Willie!) OK. Latah.

    • popeye

      January 24, 2014 at 11:32 am

      You’re not just culturally numb. Whether it’s parody or not, you’re ascribing characteristics based on culture or race. Shame. And you have a tin ear for humor, as explained elsewhere.

      • JNewman

        January 24, 2014 at 12:51 pm

        Give GW some credit here. After months of experimentation, he has finally figured out how to make his posts even less worth reading. Next step: ads for low mortgage rates.

    • BigWillyJohnson

      January 24, 2014 at 4:07 pm

      GW,

      I have a bad reading eye for this sort of thing. My reading comprehension is not quite up to snuff.

      BW

      • GreenWin

        January 24, 2014 at 8:55 pm

        Heyyyy, it’s ok Willy. Long as we got yours blessin!! Thanks! We jus need Dale to help with a whack type. An Tony2 can make the call.

        OK. Latar.

        • Tony2

          January 24, 2014 at 11:00 pm

          GW,

          I’m sorry. I have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about.

          But I still feel like I Have to take a shower after reading it.

          Tony2

          • GreenWin

            January 25, 2014 at 5:54 am

            Ehhh, It’s EZ Tony2. Willy don’t pologize for hatin fuggin “wops.” OK? Same wit the roboPop, Noman, Al. They says its OK to hate the fuggin wops like this Rosie Andreas AH. So we putta whack onhim Tone. Simple.

            You got guys what whack wops doncha Tone?? Sure you do – its what us skeps do best. But its OK to whack a jew or injun too if theys given us a prollem, right??

            OK. Later.

  2. Dale G. Basgall

    January 24, 2014 at 1:55 pm

    Only 4 more days left until the demonstration of a brand new electrical power generating system engineered and manufactured by Black Light.

    The system with lasers through the coils in that arrangement was experimented with in the 80’s by a few DARPA scientists privy to the project.

    High efficiency is evident with the laser’s and I am wondering if the machine anticipated can run without using input energy all the time while in operation. Now is where this get’s fun for me to dissect machinery and access probability with some scientist’s and a few physicists.

    • R Hopeful

      January 24, 2014 at 3:40 pm

      No input energy? Forget about it.

      “Fuel is loaded into the electrodes and the fuel of 10 uL ignites when about 12,000 A is flowed for a fraction of a millisecond.”

      Then the kicker: the energy input is ignored in the power density estimation.

      “The energy released is more than 1 kJ. Conservatively, the power density is 1 kJ/10E-3 s/10E-5 liter = 10E11 W/liter”

      It looks like Mills considers the energy provided by the electrical impulse negligible -after all, it lasts “only” a fraction of a millisecond. But that sounds too dumb to be possible, doesn’t it?

      • Dale G. Basgall

        January 24, 2014 at 3:56 pm

        RH as soon as the physicist wakes up I am going to review this and then write up a small post regarding what he thinks. He wants to see the video and he was a heavy weight in Nuclear Science with a PHD along with working confined in the government labs. This is interesting to pick apart the mechanics of the machinery and to match with what is anticipated.

        If Defkalion or Rossi would have exhibited a device machine that could have been probable in the workings compared with what they claimed both would be doing really good today with cash in their pockets from the revenues generated from the sales of their actual working devices converting the thermal energy to useable electricity commonly acceptable.

        What interested me is that Al had noted no cooling system and I agreed, but after I spoke to the physicist he indicated laser efficiency and possibly no cooling was necessary. He doesn’t know the claims on the energy claimed to be immediately available but now I am anxious to show him the demo add.

        • R Hopeful

          January 24, 2014 at 4:27 pm

          I can give anybody the benefit of the doubt, even if the workings are improbable, and accept that a system works if the tests show there is energy generation.

          The DGT and Rossi’s setups at least could be measured. DGT proved they were wrong, and from Rossi we have only one credible test which has not been replicated.

          But the energy input to Mills’ device -from high current pulses- is very difficult to measure. Any estimates of COP or net energy generation will be meaningless -too much room for error, or plain deception. Some people will believe them anyway.

          Mills promised, I think, to attach an electrical generator some time in the future. Then the system could be self-sustained. Check back when it happens.

        • Al Potenza

          January 24, 2014 at 5:52 pm

          Hi Dale. Heat is heat. The temperature rise can be calculated from the usual equations for conduction, radiation and evaporation if any, and the geometry and properties of the device.

          A large heat source will cause a large temperature rise unless the heat is CARRIED AWAY by some sort of system. I have no idea what your friend meant by “laser efficiency”. The claims on the energy are vague. But 10 megawatts are mentioned as the power, in the form of pulses (“pluses”, if you’re Brillouin). I didn’t see that they provided duration or repetition rate so one can’t compute energy.

          But Mills seems to claim a huge sustained power density and lots of energy. You can’t achieve that without removing the heat somehow. The damn thing would melt. Look at the diagrams. No cooling at all. NONE. It’s ALL NONSENSE — RIDICULOUS NONSENSE.

          • GreenWin

            January 24, 2014 at 8:48 pm

            I’m wid Al on this. We gotto take down the R Andrea first. Then maybe this new guy Roger Mill if he’s a sack like RA is. He’s prolly a fuggin jew.

            Trouble is the guy’s in Jersey. Who we know in Jersey? Mebbe those0 fusion guys over to Princetown. They been anxious to take out these screwballs a long time.

            OK. Latah.

  3. R Hopeful

    January 24, 2014 at 8:03 pm

    Hear the news? Industrial Heat LLC confirms that they bought Rossi’s intellectual property and licensing rights -that is, the whole Rossi enterprise.

    The evidence to support the decision is the Elforsk report, and verification by an independent expert.

    I want to think that people willing to invest about $1M a head would be smarter than most, but this is shocking. I wish them good luck.

  4. GreenWin

    January 24, 2014 at 8:18 pm

    Hey yeah… now we gotta green lite in this stuff. I’m wid Dale and Willy and other skeps now. I say nuthin’s gonn happen less we go over to Miami and take this mofo OUT! I know Tony2’s gotta a guy what can do the hit on the fuggin wop – R Andrea. But ’cause we’s innit all together… I wanna make sure Big Willy gives a nod. An JNewma (he’s smart, he can figure out the alarms an security shit.)

    Dale, you got any ideas ’bout kinda whack we should do? Like I mean, maybe some anthrax onna his mail? Maybe a brake fulid drain? This is what we’s good at gang so come on an pony up the ideas. Specially Tony2 – I think he’s a guy what took out Hoffa.

    Latar fellas. Hey, it’z kinda fun being a skep!

    BTW, after we done wit the WOP, I gotta fuggin KIKE I wanna putta hurt on. An a camel jockey. Friggin rats the whole bunch. Ok… Later.

  5. Al Potenza

    January 24, 2014 at 8:47 pm

    This is hilarious. The enthusiasts think it’s a big boost for Rossi. I think it’s the start of his end:

    Whatever else, Rossi has chutzpah!

    http://www.sacbee.com/2014/01/24/6098944/industrial-heat-has-acquired-andrea.html

    • Ransompw

      January 24, 2014 at 9:01 pm

      Al:

      You think a company financed with millions of dollars and who has had Rossi’s technology for 8-9 months and comes out and says they have had an independent expert certify it and that they have been busy preparing and filing patents to protect the IP is the beginning of the end for Rossi?

      Wow you really are as delusional as I suspected.

      • Al Potenza

        January 24, 2014 at 9:15 pm

        Yes. That is exactly what I think. Either that or the press release is bullsh*t. The release says that the company relied on the Levi report. However it scrambles the information to suggest a 2 day test by some undefined “European” group. So actually, it doesn’t make any sense and it may all be vapor.

        However, if a large fund source actually gave millions to Rossi, I think that is the beginning of his end and suggests that he has lost touch with reality.

        Let’s see how that all reads a year from now, shall we? Along with all the BS from Defkalion, Nanospire, Brillouin, McKubre and Miley.

        • R Hopeful

          January 24, 2014 at 9:24 pm

          At least, read the press release. They mention two multi-day tests in Europe, which is what the Elforsk report describes.

          You are not arguing that the press release is a fabrication, are you?

          It wouldn’t be the first time a swindler takes a few million from rich investors, but you cannot just disregard this development. These guys have much more information about Rossi than you do.

          • Ransompw

            January 24, 2014 at 9:41 pm

            Hopeful:

            Al is living in a certain world, he isn’t going to consider that the world he is living in may be based on BS. He will cling to his view of reality until they haul him away to the loony bin.

            Go back and look at his predictions concerning my 3 issues. He is already wrong about 2 of them and will almost certainly be wrong about the 3rd.

            There is a US Company, no Al you were wrong as usual. They didn’t discover after buying Rossi’s technology that is was a load of bull (Al’s wrong again), in fact they have now joined Rossi’s delusion.

            Oh wait, maybe it is Al who is deluded.

          • Al Potenza

            January 24, 2014 at 9:45 pm

            “At least, read the press release. They mention two multi-day tests in Europe, which is what the Elforsk report describes.”
            *
            I read it. Did I mention my unicorns also passed a two day test in Europe? Of course the results are under an NDA so you can’t see them.

            “You are not arguing that the press release is a fabrication, are you?”
            *
            No. I am arguing that belief in Rossi is wishful thinking.

            “It wouldn’t be the first time a swindler takes a few million from rich investors, but you cannot just disregard this development.”
            *
            It certainly isn’t. It’s incredibly common for large swindles to get past investors. There are a number of classical ones which happened in the last few decades and have already been discussed here– very flagrant frauds involving energy, and data compression for example.

            “These guys have much more information about Rossi than you do.”
            *
            And we know that how? Because Ransom says so?

          • Ransompw

            January 24, 2014 at 9:55 pm

            Al:

            You’re making a fool out of yourself.

          • Al Potenza

            January 24, 2014 at 10:04 pm

            “There is a US Company, no Al you were wrong as usual. They didn’t discover after buying Rossi’s technology that is was a load of bull (Al’s wrong again), in fact they have now joined Rossi’s delusion.

            Oh wait, maybe it is Al who is deluded.”
            *
            Hold that thought and remember what you said. We will revisit it in a year, maybe sooner. Then, we’ll see how many products Industrial Heat has under development and what they say officially about Rossi then.
            *

            Al:

            You’re making a fool out of yourself.”
            *
            I would like you to be clear here. Are you saying large swindles don’t get past large companies and institutional investors? If so, you have a very strange grasp of recent history!

          • R Hopeful

            January 24, 2014 at 10:05 pm

            Al, I see that is the end of the discussion. Rossi is nonsense because you know it is.

            Frankly, people that had a chance to test and witness the device and still decided to put money on it have more credibility than you.

            As I said, I wish them luck.

          • popeye

            January 25, 2014 at 10:41 am

            Hopeful wrote:

            It wouldn’t be the first time a swindler takes a few million from rich investors, but you cannot just disregard this development.

            I think this development can be disregarded. Why should we trust venture capitalists any more than I trust 7 scientists? I just watched American Hustle and Wolf of Wall Street, and those money types have far less (if any) integrity than scientists. And I don’t trust the 7 scientists. Not that I think they’re crooked, although that’s more likely than a working ecat, but that I don’t trust their competence in a Rossi-controlled scenario, when it would be easy for him to produce completely convincing evidence if he had what he claims.

            And the validation performed “in the presence of IH personnel and certified by an independent expert” means squat. If Rossi fooled 7 scientists with a little autonomy, fooling investors and an unnamed expert who have noautonimy is no big deal.

            These guys have much more information about Rossi than you do.

            First of all, I don’t think that’s obvious at all. We’ve been poring over everything Rossi for 3 years. I doubt these guys have spent a tiny fraction of the time considering it, and they are unqualified to make a judgement.

            Second, for me at least, and I’m guessing for mainstream science, it’s not enough to suppose some random investors have enough information to make the right call. It’s about accessible evidence that that the thing works. And there’s no more of that now than there was last week.

            And thirdly, venture capitalists take risks every day. They don’t have to be convinced that it works. Only that the odds of it working are better than the ratio of the investment to the potential return.

            In fact, as new owners of the IP, they stand to make money by persuading others to invest, even if it doesn’t work. And they can do this based on some estimated probability of it working, without committing fraud.

          • popeye

            January 25, 2014 at 10:44 am

            Ransom wrote:

            Go back and look at his predictions concerning my 3 issues. He is already wrong about 2 of them and will almost certainly be wrong about the 3rd.

            I think your 3 issues are quite irrelevant to whether or not the ecat works, but what you say is wrong. You claim to approach this objectively, so why do you feel you have to twist the truth like this to support the Rossi claims? You criticize Krivit for half-truths, but that’s what this is.

            Presumably you’re talking about items 2 & 3. Item 2 was “Has Rossi finally partnered with a US Company with some real expertise?”

            IH has no expertise, so so far that’s a negative. Rossi said his partner has built an e-cat from scratch and tested it themselves. There is nothing in the press release to indicate IH has done this or could do this. They merely say they are looking for industrial partners to develop the technology, admitting they don’t have the expertise themselves.

            Item 3 was “Assuming 2) have they concluded he has nothing? (I assume it wouldn’t take too long)”

            Al did not make a prediction based on the assumption that (2) was correct, so he could not have been wrong. And since (2) has not yet been demonstrated correct, any prediction could likewise not be known.

            There is a US Company, no Al you were wrong as usual.

            Not one with expertise relevant to the ecat though.

            They didn’t discover after buying Rossi’s technology that is was a load of bull (Al’s wrong again),

            That’s not surprising for investors. BLP investors didn’t discover that their products were bull for 20 years. And even if their current claims bear out, the previous products which brought in 60M were completely different, and *were* bull.

            Or consider Toyota. A really big company, took 8 years and 50 M before they pulled the plug on P&F.

            Oh wait, maybe it is Al who is deluded.

            Nah. It’s definitely the true believers. But it would take a confession to make them realize it, and even then they would claim the evil empire got to him.

        • GreenWin

          January 24, 2014 at 9:25 pm

          Hey Al, you think Rosie walks or drives to work? I got a rumore says he’s a walker most days. That case is EZ. We get Anders to make a “mistake” when guy is crossing street. EZ in Miami. Rosie walks, Anders drives fast – an BAM!! Good pop to worthless wop! Willi’s gonna sing!!

          OK Latar.

          • Al Potenza

            January 24, 2014 at 9:40 pm

            You’ve gone a long ways towards removing any doubts that you are complete idiot.

          • GreenWin

            January 24, 2014 at 10:08 pm

            Waitaminute Al. You sayin you gotta better kinda way for this Rosie. Thing about car rundowns is driver can plead blindness then the innsurance takes over. Driver don’t never hafto go to court or nothin!! It’s a beyootiful whack Al!! OK.

          • Al Potenza

            January 24, 2014 at 10:18 pm

            Complete whackjob.

          • GreenWin

            January 24, 2014 at 10:43 pm

            Ehhh, NOW yous gettin the spirit Al! Sides, a incomplete whack would be bad. OK.

        • Al Potenza

          January 24, 2014 at 10:21 pm

          “Rossi is nonsense because you know it is.”
          *
          You know that isn’t what I say. I’ve explained many times. Here’s the executive briefing:

          Rossi is nonsense because everything he’s done to date failed, much of it with probably criminal fraud. The current tests and every other test Rossi has allowed have been deficient and scientifically uncertain. There would have been perfectly accurate ways to test and it could have been done independent of Rossi but Rossi chose not to do it that way.

          That is the evidence. Against that is the word of a friend of Rossi’s, incomplete work done in his lab by obviously incompetent people, and a whole three years’ worth of inane claims by Rossi. It does add up.

          • Ransompw

            January 24, 2014 at 10:34 pm

            Get a grip, you are practically foaming at the mouth.

      • popeye

        January 25, 2014 at 10:38 am

        Ransom wrote:

        You think a company financed with millions of dollars and who has had Rossi’s technology for 8-9 months and comes out and says they have had an independent expert certify it and that they have been busy preparing and filing patents to protect the IP is the beginning of the end for Rossi?

        Judging by BLP, who has all those things for 20 years, probably it’s just the beginning of the beginning.

  6. JNewman

    January 24, 2014 at 9:54 pm

    So, Rossi’s US partner is a six-month old company whose business appears to be its investment in Rossi with no other known activities. We’ve gone down this same road 3 years ago with Ampenergo. We will just have to wait and see if the results are the same.

    • Ransompw

      January 24, 2014 at 10:29 pm

      Newman:

      A company tied to the Cherokee McDonough Challenge and Cherokee Investment Partners, with the founding member of each involved as investors.

      You can act like it is nothing but you show your bias by doing so.

      They have also had 9 months to evaluate the technology and if they discovered the alleged easy to discover fraud, it sure seems odd that they decided to make the press release. Al’s position on the Levi tests is likely nonsense given this press release. Fraud is very unlikely, they all may be deluded but cooking the input energy is pretty low on the probability list.

      • popeye

        January 25, 2014 at 10:48 am

        Ransom wrote:

        A company tied to the Cherokee McDonough Challenge and Cherokee Investment Partners, with the founding member of each involved as investors.
        You can act like it is nothing but you show your bias by doing so.

        It *is* nothing. Compared to Toyota investing 50 M in P&F or investors putting 80 M into BLP or even compared to the lame Levi validation, this is *nothing*. After all, the investment is based on the Levi validation, so how can that strengthen the credibility, since we already had the Levi validation? A plumber agreeing with a heart surgeon’s recommendation for a bypass, doesn’t really strengthen it. And no, an additional performance by Rossi for an unnamed expert doesn’t help either.

        And a disagreement with you is not the definition of bias.

        They have also had 9 months to evaluate the technology and if they discovered the alleged easy to discover fraud, it sure seems odd that they decided to make the press release.

        What makes you think Rossi’s made it easy to discover? There’s nothing in the release that indicates they’ve done anything that would have allowed such a discovery. It’s a safe bet they haven’t read the controversy surrounding it, and what they do say in the release is that they’ve *witnessed* a validation. Well, that’s not gonna be enough to discover anything.

        Again, BLP’s claims for 20 years came to nothing, and yet the investors discovered nothing.

        Al’s position on the Levi tests is likely nonsense given this press release.

        Garbage. This press release does not change the probabilities at all.

        Fraud is very unlikely, they all may be deluded but cooking the input energy is pretty low on the probability list.

        Fraud on the part of Rossi is far and away the most probable. The ratio of the probability of delusion to fraud increases as you get further from Rossi. But either of them is orders of magnitude more likely than a working ecat.

    • R Hopeful

      January 24, 2014 at 10:30 pm

      Very different. Ampenergo came out of nowhere, and it evaporated. Industrial Heat has reputable investors behind -the Cherokee fund.

      It is a reasonable investment vehicle to start a new business.

    • JNewman

      January 24, 2014 at 10:55 pm

      So Cherokee decided to invest in Rossi for whatever reason. Instead of giving him (or Leonardo) the money, they formed a new company which now owns the rights to the technology. This is not exactly the same as an experienced partner joining forces with Rossi. So what can we conclude? Rossi now has lots of money to play with. Are the Cherokee guys geniuses or idiots? If they bought a technology worth trillions for $12 million, they are geniuses. If they bought garbage, it’s a peanuts investment for a VC. Most VC investments go nowhere. Time will tell. Unlike you, Ransom, I conclude nothing from this.

      • R Hopeful

        January 24, 2014 at 11:34 pm

        “Are the Cherokee guys geniuses or idiots?” That is the question. At least we can be quite certain they are not scammers, unlike many of the characters around.

        Note that we don’t know how much money Rossi is making from this deal. Most likely he is getting a chunk of the company, which would be worth a fortune if this technology is real and the company manages to grab a significant market share.

        The $12M they raised is not being used to pay Rossi exclusively. I guess it is enough to pursue some decent patents and build a few reliable prototypes. Enough to go looking for serious money, but those new investments will dilute the equity of the founders.

        • popeye

          January 25, 2014 at 10:57 am

          Hopeful wrote:

          “Are the Cherokee guys geniuses or idiots?” That is the question.

          No it’s not. They can be anywhere in between. Investment is a gamble. And their investment in Rossi means they think it’s worth the gamble, not that they’re sure it will pay off. Skeptics think it’s not worth the gamble, but considering the people involved in LENR research, I wouldn’t say it’s idiotic to think it might just be.

          At least we can be quite certain they are not scammers, unlike many of the characters around.

          I wouldn’t rule it out though. The beauty of it for them is that if they honestly think the ecat’s chances are small but worth it, they can honestly pitch it to investors that way, and stand to make money even if it fails.

      • Ransompw

        January 24, 2014 at 11:53 pm

        Newman:

        I am not concluding anything. This press release is more consistent with my position that Rossi has an undeveloped technology that is not ready for production. And it may not turn out to be the winner if LENR is real so it isn’t worth trillions, that is dumb. LENR may turn out to be worth trillions but that means squat for Rossi.

        It is less consistent with your position that Rossi is a fraud.

        The chances that I have been right and you have been wrong are clearly in my favor and Al’s posts show he is delusional.

        • JNewman

          January 25, 2014 at 12:21 am

          Clearly in your favor, eh? Your analytical powers are impressive as usual. We’ll check in on this in about 6 months and see how things are going. You don’t seem to know much about VCs despite your claims of vast experience. Anyway, glad you are pleased.

          • Ransompw

            January 25, 2014 at 12:28 am

            Newman:

            I think it likely that in 9 months they (VC’s) would have picked up on Rossi’s scam of faking the input power. Do you actually still believe that?

            However, I am sure your vast knowledge of high finance dwarfs mine. Brahahahahaha

            What a piece of work you are.

          • JNewman

            January 25, 2014 at 12:42 am

            For a guy who claims such smarts and experience, you sure have nothing in your arsenal but insults and mockery. You are not nearly as moronic and useless as GW, but if you are the best the believer corps can muster, it is pretty sad.

            As for input power and whatnot, beats me. There is no reason to believe Rossi has anything at all and until I hear otherwise from a source that deserves to be listened to (i.e. not a shill with no relevant experience like Levi or a random VC), that’s where I stand. As for my knowledge of high finance, I would wager than my personal experience with VCs dwarfs yours. If not, then you have not learned a damned thing from your experience. The diabolical laugh is cute, though. Shows what a clever dude you are.

          • Ransompw

            January 25, 2014 at 6:49 am

            You are just about as bad as AL.

          • popeye

            January 25, 2014 at 11:00 am

            Ransom wrote:

            I think it likely that in 9 months they (VC’s) would have picked up on Rossi’s scam of faking the input power.

            Based on what? They admit in the press release that they are looking for industrial partners, meaning they don’t have any. They cite the Levi report and a *demonstration* as validation, suggesting they’ve done nothing else experimental, which makes sense since they have no expertise for it.

        • popeye

          January 25, 2014 at 10:58 am

          Ransom wrote:

          This press release is more consistent with my position that Rossi has an undeveloped technology that is not ready for production.

          So that’s your position now. I coulda sworn you said you were uncertain a little while ago. You even expressed uncertainty about LENR not so long ago.

          The press release is consistent with the Levi validation. That’s what they said. Since we already had the Levi validation, the release does not bear on the probability.

          It is less consistent with your position that Rossi is a fraud.

          It is exactly as consistent as it was last week, which is entirely consistent.

          The chances that I have been right and you have been wrong are clearly in my favor

          That it’s clear to you is tautological. That it’s not clear to skeptics is likewise tautological, or skeptics would not be skeptical.

          It’s still true that scams of this sort, including investments of this sort are utterly common. But a scientific revolution of the sort that a real ecat would require are as rare as hen’s teeth, and so based on precedent, fraud is far more likely than a real ecat phenomenon.

  7. Al Potenza

    January 24, 2014 at 10:17 pm

    Original newsrelease:

    http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/industrial-heat-has-acquired-andrea-rossis-e-cat-technology-241853361.html

    It was two multiday tests (not two day tests as I thought from somewhere else) so they are simply relying on Levi’s tests with the Swedes — a singularly poor idea. Oh… and an independent but unnamed expert. I don’t suppose they spoke to any of the recipients of Rossi’s 14 sold megawatt plants?

    Now, it seems like it may be a pump and dump scheme. Time will tell.

    Meanwhile, some over at e-catworld.com are dying to buy the stock. Begging to be fleeced.

    • Ransompw

      January 24, 2014 at 10:30 pm

      Al:

      Your idiocy is showing.

    • GreenWin

      January 24, 2014 at 10:47 pm

      Al, you sayin this injun guy Cherokee need to go too? Injuns like Will’s wops prolly pee inna pipes. It’s gonna cost you Al Rosie AND a injun??

    • Frank

      January 25, 2014 at 12:34 am

      • Ransompw

        January 25, 2014 at 12:49 am

        As has been mentioned often, skeptics will exist until they are staring at a product they can not deny.

        Until then proof will be individual. The press release proves nothing, it however suggests that overt fraud by Rossi is less likely.

        • JNewman

          January 25, 2014 at 12:56 am

          Most skeptics will exist until they are presented with the sort of proof that has accompanied every accepted scientific phenomenon known to man. Believers in nonsense, on the other hand, will exist forever; particularly those who are emotionally invested and convinced that they are the smartest kid in the class.

          • Ransompw

            January 25, 2014 at 1:16 am

            Newman:

            That sort of proof is in the eye of the beholder, individual as I said. Don’t kid yourself.

            And if Rossi did turn out to have something, I hope this process creates more openminded, less pig headed rock headed attitudes like AL and Popeye exhibit.

            I much rather live in a world full of naive dreamers than pessimistic rockheads that need a bomb of proof to go off before they consider something new.

          • popeye

            January 25, 2014 at 11:03 am

            Ransom wrote:

            And if Rossi did turn out to have something, I hope this process creates more openminded, less pig headed rock headed attitudes like AL and Popeye exhibit.

            And if perpetual motion proved to work, do you think it would create more open-minded less pig-headed attitudes like yours?

            I much rather live in a world full of naive dreamers than pessimistic rockheads that need a bomb of proof to go off before they consider something new.

            You say that, but you don’t know what such a world would be like. Naive dreamers would have wandered aimlessly trying to make all manner of paranormal crap work, instead of using generalizations based on experimental evidence to focus their efforts to produce the great scientific progress you see before you. Because you see, the skeptical attitude we have toward cold fusion is common to nearly all scientists responsible for nearly all scientific progress.

        • Daniel Maris

          January 25, 2014 at 1:23 am

          Absolutely – a sensible judgement.

          I would add, it isn’t in IH’s interests at this stage to suggest the full range of validation they are privy to. They will be wanting to set up their market penetration plans in earnest now. From their point of view, a miasma of continued scepticism around the project is not unhelpful.

          • popeye

            January 25, 2014 at 11:04 am

            Maris wrote:

            I would add, it isn’t in IH’s interests at this stage to suggest the full range of validation they are privy to. They will be wanting to set up their market penetration plans in earnest now. From their point of view, a miasma of continued scepticism around the project is not unhelpful.

            So, once again, you are suggesting we should believe in the ecat because they *haven’t* proved it.

        • popeye

          January 25, 2014 at 11:02 am

          Ransom wrote:

          As has been mentioned often, skeptics will exist until they are staring at a product they can not deny.

          Mentioned often, but never defended. No scientific breakthrough that I can think of was denied by skeptics until a commercial product existed. Why should this be any different.

          Skeptics have repeatedly described the type of experiment or demonstration that would change their minds. Nothing has ever come close. And new investors hardly changes that.

          But believers will never stop believing until Rossi is convicted in court, and probably not even then for many of them. They keep moving the goal posts closer. Last year’s validation was supposed to be independent, videotaped, and published under peer review, in Nature or Science according to some. But then Rossi’s lab, with hand-picked people, behind closed doors, and published on arXiv was good enough. Now, believers were waiting for a big US company with real expertise as a partner, and tossed names like Google, Siemens, GE, and BW around, but now a shell with no expertise is just fine.

        • Stephen

          January 25, 2014 at 3:25 pm

          A product they can’t deny… Yes indeed. Well at least we have our line in the sand, as opposed to the poor, simple minded souls, who will never stop believing the man who moves his hands a lot.

          You have deteriorated, Ransompw. Sad to notice.

  8. Al Potenza

    January 25, 2014 at 12:46 am

    OK. Ransom says my idiocy is showing, I’m foaming at the mouth and … well, you get the idea.

    So, I will offer him a simple challenge. Let’s try to agree on a half dozen or so hard criteria by which we can judge who was most probably right about Rossi… a year and two years from now.

    So, Ransom, tell me what you expect to happen in that or any other time line you choose. It’s mainly for Ransom but anyone can play. I ask that you make it something easy to test unlike anonymous customers and tests from obscure scientists.

    Let me start with some suggestions but hey, the sky is the limit.

    1. At least one major national laboratory, or UL, or a *major* university, preferably in the US, will agree officially and as a unit that Rossi’s stuff is real. It will not be individual scientists acting on their own. It will not be some backwoods place. It will be based on testing not done in Rossi’s lab and not involving any of his colleagues or close friends in any way.

    2. A product announcement will be made by a major player like General Electric, General Motors, Google, Oracle, Tesla, Home Depot, even Walmart. It will be specific as to the performance characteristics of the product and will specify the exact way it was tested. And if it’s from Industrial Heat or has any connection to Rossi, a truly independent test will still be required.

    That would do for me. You may have additional ideas.

    I say it won’t happen. None of it. Not in one year, two years or EVER, any more than Steorn did it, Keely did it, Bedini did it or any of the other clowns in Sterling Allan’s zoo did it.

    • Ransompw

      January 25, 2014 at 1:06 am

      AL:

      I will make a few more likely predictions.

      1) In March-April, the Levi group (with some new members) will report on long term tests. You will do back flips to try and find a reason to ignore, with a final backup that you will never believe it until MIT(God Almighty) or similar icon reproduces the tests.

      2) Shortly thereafter Industrial Heat will come out with internal testing which will give everyone a better idea of the technologies possibilities.

      3) Turns out to be a process heretofore unknown and very possibly non nuclear but better than fossil fuel.

      4) Modest products eventually come on the market years from now.

      5) AL eventually claims he was right all along and it wasn’t the Holy Grail of energy which was what he was saying all along.

      6) Everyone knows AL if full of.

      • JNewman

        January 25, 2014 at 1:11 am

        Whatever else happens, you can rest assured that Industrial Heat won’t conduct any tests. The company consists of two venture capitalists whose expertise is in hiring construction companies to remediate brownfield sites.

        • Ransompw

          January 25, 2014 at 1:20 am

          Is that a prediction? You think they aren’t doing tests as we post?

          You don”t even know these people. Does it bother you that much that you are wrong. You have to immediately try to assassinate their character.

          Sad, really sad.

          • JNewman

            January 25, 2014 at 1:25 am

            How exactly have I assassinated anyone’s character? According to Cherokokee’s website:

            “Cherokee is the leading private equity firm investing capital and expertise in brownfield redevelopment. Our track record is built on nearly 15 years of successfully cleaning up and revitalizing real estate.”

            If they omitted stuff about their expertise in nuclear physics, it was an oversight, I am sure.

          • Ransompw

            January 25, 2014 at 1:33 am

            Newman:

            Cherokee invests, Industrial Heat would test and you think physicists can’t be hired, geez. What a joke.

          • popeye

            January 25, 2014 at 11:08 am

            Ransom wrote:

            Is that a prediction? You think [IH] aren’t doing tests as we post?

            Certainly doesn’t sound like it from the press release. They mention the Levi report, a demo they witnessed, and plans to find industrial partners. If there’s testing going on, it does not sound like IH is doing them.

        • Daniel Maris

          January 25, 2014 at 1:33 am

          Successful venture capitalists who no doubt have rejected attempts by scam artists to get their hands on their money in the past.

          • popeye

            January 25, 2014 at 11:09 am

            Maris wrote:

            Successful venture capitalists who no doubt have rejected attempts by scam artists to get their hands on their money in the past.

            Sure, but that’s probably true of all investors who nevertheless got sucked in to fraud.

      • Al Potenza

        January 25, 2014 at 2:13 am

        2) Shortly thereafter Industrial Heat will come out with internal testing which will give everyone a better idea of the technologies possibilities.
        *
        Any idea what they will do to make such tests credible? In house tests are never believable if the claims are as extravagant as Rossi’s.
        *
        *
        “4) Modest products eventually come on the market years from now.”
        *
        REALLY, Ransom? Are you a copy writer for Rossi? WHAT products? HOW MANY years from now? Two? Five? Ten? A hundred? No respect without numbers!

        • Ransompw

          January 25, 2014 at 4:36 am

          Why would they care to make internal tests credible?

          You can only see all this through one biased view.

          If this is real technology they don’t have to prove it to anyone except customers.

          • JNewman

            January 25, 2014 at 5:00 am

            Secret customers. Customers who don’t have to disclose that they are running a nuclear reactor in their premises. Customers that take delivery and vanish forever. Fortunately, there are plenty of such customers. Too bad we will never know anything about them but that’s how business works.

          • popeye

            January 25, 2014 at 11:10 am

            Ransom wrote:

            Why would they care to make internal tests credible?
            You can only see all this through one biased view.
            If this is real technology they don’t have to prove it to anyone except customers.

            You’re stating the obvious. But believers are arguing that it’s real, and skeptics are arguing that they’re not convinced. It’s a legitimate discussion to have given stuff has been made public. The fact that they don’t have to prove it to skeptics doesn’t make it any more believable to skeptics.

          • Ransompw

            January 25, 2014 at 12:18 pm

            Popeye

            No one cares if you are convinced. Your opinion means nothing.

      • popeye

        January 25, 2014 at 11:07 am

        Ransom wrote:

        I will make a few more likely predictions.
        1) In March-April, the Levi group (with some new members) will report on long term tests.

        Finally, another dated prediction from you, although this one is pretty soft. This wouldn’t surprise me, nor would it prove anything. But it’s also possible it won’t happen, and if it doesn’t, it won’t change your view at all. That’s my prediction.

        You will do back flips to try and find a reason to ignore,

        In the previous case, I gave the reason to ignore it beforehand, and the type of report that would impress. And I can do it again, with essentially the same text:

        I don’t see it as particularly unlikely that tests will be reported at some stage by allegedly independent 3rd parties, and that clear evidence of LENR and COP enough for a commercial product will be claimed.

        Allegedly independent 3rd parties could simply be some little-known academics. But we already know from the BLP history that statements from such academics mean squat. Especially if the academics appear to be recruited. Even if the statement is definite, a scientific revolution will need more to go on than trust in a few recruited academics. Individual academics, with unremarkable reputations, have essentially nothing to lose by being wrong. In fact, if Rossi pays consulting fees, they may have a lot to gain. It’s not P&F again, because no one is paying attention, and so no one will notice if they get it wrong.

        Reports about a black box from a few (or even a dozen) individuals is not an independent validation.

        For exactly the same reason, it is unlikely a prominent journal will publish claims of a new phenomenon that can’t be tested by its audience. So, if a report is published, it will be in a small-time journal, and no matter how detailed, if it’s a black-box test, it still relies on trust.

        So what is needed? The best would be if the details of the reactor were disclosed so others could test the claims, but of course that won’t happen. Next best would be if the reactor were made available on request, so it could be tested by anyone. Also won’t happen. Third best would be a public demonstration involving some experts who are on the record as being skeptical, and which is really transparent. With an energy density a million times higher than dynamite, this should not be difficult. A completely and obviously isolated device that produced unequivocal heat many times its total weight in chemical fuel would do the trick (and should be trivial).

        Failing those, the only sort of validation that would have an impact is one in which the independence is truly transparent, and the consequences of being wrong are significant. This would be the case, for example, if Rossi had an open invitation to major national laboratories to run the test, and one or more openly and voluntarily sent a team for the purpose. Any labs that offer to perform the test and are turned down would be in a position to report that publicly. National labs or even university endorsed teams have a lot more to lose than a few academics acting on their own. This is less than perfect, but it would certainly draw a lot of attention. But I’m pretty sure that’s not gonna happen either. Alas.

        Whatever happens in the next few months, it will almost certainly have no significant impact on mainstream science, and at most a ripple on the mainstream media. A year from now, LENR and the ecat will be in exactly the same place they are now, which is exactly where they were a year ago, and where they were 2 years ago. There will be an eager internet following expecting something big real soon now, but the rest of the world will remain more or less oblivious.

        I wrote the above (with minor edits) 10 months ago, before the Levi report, and it falls short of every criterion I considered that would make it significant, and met precisely those criteria I said beforehand would fall short. The same text applies equally today, and maybe I’ll cut and paste again a year from now.

        2) Shortly thereafter Industrial Heat will come out with internal testing which will give everyone a better idea of the technologies possibilities.
        3) Turns out to be a process heretofore unknown and very possibly non nuclear but better than fossil fuel.
        4) Modest products eventually come on the market years from now.

        Talk about lame and non-committal on both timing and specifics of the milestones.

        I think there’s a simple way to judge whether the field is accepted by the mainstream, which surely we all agree has to happen if it is going to make an impact. If cold fusion or the ecat are real — and I mean nuclear because chemical would not be interesting, unless it’s hydrinos, and that’s whacko — then there is a Nobel prize in it within a year of acceptance. So, my prediction is no Nobel prize in the field ever. Anyone predict something sooner?

        • Ransompw

          January 25, 2014 at 12:23 pm

          Popeye mainstream science isn’t an entity. Acceptance or rejection of any tests will be individual. If LENR is real, you will be in the minority soon enough. FANATICS ALWAYS END UP IN THE MINORITY.

          BY the way, I take your bet, you take no Nobel forever. Obviously, I have the rest.

    • Daniel Maris

      January 25, 2014 at 1:29 am

      Al, the time for university testing is past. As for no. 2, they don’t need to hook up with a major player. They have enough funding to begin production. They are looking for partners i.e. organisations that can deliver funding for energy production. Initially I imagine IH will offer no risk contracts i.e. no money up front required – IH build and install the plant and then, once it is certified as working, the energy generator pays up.

      I would expect within 12-24 months we will see the first plants in operation, possibly in China, since we know they have already been having discussions over there and safety, planning etc laws will be a lot less of a barrier.

      • JNewman

        January 25, 2014 at 1:44 am

        How great! Now we can all stop speculating and just wait one to two years for the dawn of the new age. No need for these silly websites then. Go have some beer!

        • Daniel Maris

          January 25, 2014 at 2:25 am

          Well I think we will see encouraging signs of developments in that direction during this period. For those of us interested in the E Cat, that’s good enough reason to follow what’s going on.

        • R Hopeful

          January 25, 2014 at 5:15 am

          That is it? This forum is very good at rebutting good news related to LENR -pointing out non-obvious interpretations of the facts. If the plan is to wait to see what happens, this new development must be significant.

      • Al Potenza

        January 25, 2014 at 2:07 am

        “I would expect within 12-24 months we will see the first plants in operation, possibly in China, since we know they have already been having discussions over there and safety, planning etc laws will be a lot less of a barrier.”
        *
        Oh? Why don’t they buy and exhibit one of Rossi’s stupendous megawatt superplants that he’s been selling (ROTFWL!) since November 2011?

        • Daniel Maris

          January 25, 2014 at 2:29 am

          Sounds like IH actually assembled a working Rossi device themselves. That’s what Rossi told us his partner had done. If he was lying about that, well IH would know he was a liar.

          As I say I think the validation process has been more intense than IH are letting on. In fact, I think – given what we know about what has been going on in China – their plans are far more advanced than they are letting on.

          • popeye

            January 25, 2014 at 11:12 am

            Maris wrote:

            Sounds like IH actually assembled a working Rossi device themselves. That’s what Rossi told us his partner had done. If he was lying about that, well IH would know he was a liar.

            Weird logic. There is no indication in the press release that IH could assemble and test a working device, nor that they have. If they had, why would they only cite the demonstration they *witnessed*? They’re looking for an industrial partner, presumably because they have no industrial capability. Yes, Rossi said his partner had done it, but do they read JONP, and if so, do they care that he lies to the public? It’s not the only lie. Presumably, if he had an ecat that heated a factory for 2 years, they could have used that for validation, but no mention of it.

            As I say I think the validation process has been more intense than IH are letting on. In fact, I think – given what we know about what has been going on in China – their plans are far more advanced than they are letting on.

            That’s the difference between a true believer and an ordinary person. A TB believes in fairies because of evidence he hopes exists, but has not seen. An ordinary person bases his interpretation on evidence he knows exists.

          • JNewman

            January 25, 2014 at 1:32 pm

            Speaking of Industrial Heat, do any of you guys live near Raleigh? The international headquarters of the company that is about to change the world is over there inside the offices of Cherokee on East Hargett Street. You should go over and see their team of experts and their labs. Or at least you could see the filing cabinet that I predict is the sum total of Industrial Heat’s existence. Don’t believe it? Prove me wrong.

      • popeye

        January 25, 2014 at 11:12 am

        Maris wrote:

        I would expect within 12-24 months we will see the first plants in operation, possibly in China, since we know they have already been having discussions over there and safety, planning etc laws will be a lot less of a barrier.

        Lovely to see another dated prediction. They’ve gotten pretty scarce lately after so many failures. This is pretty far in the future, but I’ll be here in 24 months to throw it back in your face when there are no plants in operation anywhere. And my prediction is that you will still be a true believer anyway, because there’s gonna be something just around the corner. Mark my words.

        • Daniel Maris

          January 25, 2014 at 12:24 pm

          Well if I have egg on my face by then, Tom Darden will have a double omlette over his.

          There is no room for further doubt now as far as I can see. The technology is pretty well advanced. There are prototypes. Either it works and the plants will come on pretty quickly (possibly as loss-leading demonstration projects to begin with) or the whole thing will be exposed as a scam in double quick time.

          So, I am not giving myself an out.

  9. Tony2

    January 25, 2014 at 1:11 am

    Looks like Arrivederci, Baby for JoNP! Obviously, AR has to be shut down by the new investors so that he doesn’t spill the beans.

    Tony2

    • Al Potenza

      January 25, 2014 at 2:15 am

      Maybe, maybe not. He never allows debate and never says anything testable or of value anyway so the silly blog does little harm to his interests.

    • GreenWin

      January 25, 2014 at 10:45 am

      Eh, Tony2,

      you likes to hate the fuggin wops juslike Big Willy Johnson, right? So whaddaya think? You hate wops more an niggars?? RoboPop, Willy, Al Nomen all likes to. Dale maaybe too cause hes a inventor! An Frank.

      Rainassance men make good haters, eh Tone?

    • Daniel Maris

      January 25, 2014 at 2:30 am

      Good to see you helping spread the message, Al.

    • Ransompw

      January 25, 2014 at 4:51 am

      Remotely possible AL, how did you get your fingers to type that in the comment section at bizjournal. Must have brought you close to a nervous breakdown.

      • Al Potenza

        January 25, 2014 at 7:36 am

        Nah. Just a regrettable moment of generosity.

      • Daniel Maris

        January 25, 2014 at 11:34 am

        MaryYugo’s attempt to link Rossi to Madoff is really so absurd. Madoff ran a ponzi scheme on greed pure and simple. He didn’t have to go chasing people, they came to him because they’d heard they could get extra interest on their money. They came as individuals and he didn’t have to do anything to win their trust.

        If the E Cat is a scam, it must be one of the most amazing ever pulled off.

        Rossi will have to have been fooling people (investors, engineers, scientists) 24/7 in plain sight. It just doesn’t sound plausible to me, not when we are talking about big investors who can spend a lot of money on technical advice, private detectives and all the rest. And IH now own the IP as far as I understand it. Again, not really the mark of a scam (as the skeps never tired of pointing out when Rossi was running a licensing scheme).

  10. GreenWin

    January 25, 2014 at 5:38 am

    Ehhhh, now I hooked up wit the skeps I feel like at home hatin’ on the Willy’s Wops. Ehh, just caus us skeps is haters don’t mean we can’t take a fuggin thorn outta the side.

    So, Dale, seein you is a hater too how bout that help whackin Rosie? You ever work with a wire guy? Tony2 gotta a guy outta Chitown uses that gun shoots icesickles filled width poison. Nice eh??

    An eh, since we skeps know its OK to be hatin Wops, whaddaysay we take out the jew ahagglestein while we at it? Huh? Willy be singing an dancin if we could take outta wop AN a fuggin jew what been pissin in our skep pond. Things is lookin up!!

    OK. Lata.

  11. spacegoat

    January 25, 2014 at 7:23 am

    The resident science commenting lawyer predicted that the Rossitraption might:
    Turn out to be a process heretofore unknown and very possibly non nuclear but better than fossil fuel.

    Chemistry being the rearrangement of molecules and ions by electron transfer, could someone please enter a believer state of mind and speculate how the transfer of a single electron from hydrogen to nickel could possibly be significantly exothermic? Does the electron dance and mesmerize the nickel in some way? Is nickel in love with hydrogen? Does the nickel get turned on and swivel around wildly?

    Assuming the Rossitraption worked, once chemistry is eliminated as a source of exothermic energy, one would think that any junior school student would leap to identify nuclear as the origin of the energy. But not in the case of the Rossitraption believers.

    Believer Science Hypotheses for the Rossitraption:
    1.The ghost of Tesla is playing a practical joke on Rossi from the “other side”, stoking his plumbing parts with ethereal energy, laughing uncontrollably as only a Serbian knows how.
    2.The Rossitraption is converting Rossi’s high frequency spiritual energy borne of his bleeding heart for child cancer sufferers. This explains why the contraption must be tested in proximity to Rossi.
    3. The Rossitron is resonating with the nearest nuclear power station. The nickel-hydgrogen complex forms the substrate upon which the nuclear field is strengthened by homeopathic effects. Unfortunately without nuclear power stations the Rossitron is useless.

    • GreenWin

      January 25, 2014 at 10:52 am

      Fugget the greek she it goatman. We skeps here is fixin the prolem wit wops like Rosie. We gonna use our bess skep skill an WHACK the fugger!!

      Nice. OK.

    • Shaun R

      January 25, 2014 at 1:40 pm

      I see nothing inherently with Ransom’s statement:

      Turns out to be a process heretofore unknown and very possibly non nuclear but better than fossil fuel.

      However a source of energy which is neither fundamentally electronic nor nuclear, would – I believe – constitute a new science paradigm, since it can’t be predicted from existing physics.

      Ransom, your mistake is in not understanding the magnitude and ramifications of this statement.

      Let me explain why I keep talking about new science paradigms:

      Just the fact that the mechanism of gravity is currently not understood, and that gravitation can’t be reconciled with other phenomena such as electromagnetism, indicates to me that at least one major low-energy science paradigm remains to be discovered.

      The missing pieces of this puzzle have eluded the brightest physicists for many decades, yet you think this huge huge breakthrough will come from a person with Andrea Rossi’s background?
      Seriously?

      Does anyone know how many major scientific discoveries have been made by ex-cons?

      Just asking!

      • Ransompw

        January 25, 2014 at 2:15 pm

        Actually, the word is serendipity and it isn’t all that unusual.

        It is better to be lucky than good anytime.

        What I find interesting is the continued very strong position of the skeptic crowd.

        Rossi was accurate about last years testing which is being dismissed based on alleged fraud by Rossi. A fraud by the way about as easy to discover as using ones own energy source to test.

        Since then he claims to have partnered with a US Company (a statement many thought would be a lie) and that he is allowing further tests (long term) by the same group as before with added members. At this point there is every reason to believe this is accurate. Obviously, we know he was being truthful about the US Company.

        The idea that Industrial heat LLC couldn’t see through an obvious fraud involving cooking the input is about as likely as the flying unicorns so often used by skeptics to insult people they call True Believers. The likely hood that after 9 months of working with Rossi Industrial heat would miss overt fraud is just a stupid point. It isn’t overt fraud.

        Likewise, the idea that the original testing group with 6 months or so to do further tests would fail to close the ridiculous loophole suggested by the skeptics is also unicorn worthy. No fraudster is going to let the same group test for 6 months.

        None of this is a final say or proof but to stick to the same old tired lines without the least acknowledgment that they (skeptics) may turn out to be wrong is all the proof anyone needs that the group of skeptics posting here are in everyway as biased and unreasoning as the most diehard True Believer.

        As I have said often, the Ying to the yang, the opposite side of the coin, the opposite end of the bell shaped curve. Every derogatory adjective you post as to the True believers is just as applicable to you (for Popeye, Al, Newman etc.) You obviously believe in flying unicorns also.

      • Wayne M.

        January 25, 2014 at 2:55 pm

        @Shaun R said:

        “Does anyone know how many major scientific discoveries have been made by ex-cons?
        Just asking!”

        I know of one.

        Galileo

        Just saying. BTW, I don’t think the Ecat is real either.

  12. Dale G. Basgall

    January 25, 2014 at 2:46 pm

    The interview for pre publicity regarding the disclosure of Randy Mills for BLP’s new energy device on the 28th of January 2014 has been reviewed several times by myself and a friend.

    The friend commented after the third time of review and watching the video, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cuzlyu4czYs

    “Off the shelf bullshit” was his exact comment and when I asked him why he said that.

    1) The picture shown from 16:53 to 18:28 has nothing to do with magneto hydrodynamics, it is termed “magnetic well” by one physicist that worked on it starting late 1970’s. It is using focused electron beams (particle beam) to create a “whiffle ball” plasma for fusion and worked on from late 70’s for ten years when the pictured magnetic well was developed by a Dr. and DARPA.

    For me I question people putting pictures on their work that do not relate to what the exhibit is. Sterling may have done that himself.

    2) Stable plasma was created with coal dust and oxygen after the nitrogen was removed and had an “expansion tube” that get’s to high temperatures and cooling is done by exhausting expanded gasses. The laser method of Black Light is non stable plasma but will also gain high heat and heat the surrounding area quickly and needs some type of expansion tube for true magneto hydrodynamics. These tubes need to be replaced about every 15 days due to the high heat generated and forced to flow within the tube of electrodes picking up the charges from the plasma. High maintenance on a regular basis.

    3) Claiming watts is not an indication of power generated but the rating needs to have a watt/second or watt/minute or watt/hour output designation for power generated calculations.

    There was much more detail explained to me but I could not really keep up with it and again it appears to us that there are many words used that do not describe a working device.

    Words like “should be”, should do”, “engineers are working on” can be heard and beginning 18:51 all off the shelf parts. The physicist said there is nothing off the shelf about magneto hydrodynamics.

    He made the simple statement at the end of the video and I don’t need to re write the quote, it’s clear that in his experienced opinion he has many things that did not fit in place with the parts claimed and their mechanical ability to perform for any length of time and based on output energy claims as well as first hand experience with plasma’s.

    He did tell me for Al’s reference and mine that magneto hydrodynamics does not need a cooling system because of the velocity of the plasma flow through the expansion tube, he said those tubes get to 30k or so. The cooling is needed for the super conducting magnet’s.

    Anyway I don’t know that much about it but my take is that the 28th we will see another 2D demonstration of theory and could be’s and lacking a tangible device useful to humanity. That opinion was based entirely on the information viewed from the U-tube video.