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Breaking News

August 6, 2013

To anyone wondering why I only post ‘significant’ developments regarding the eCat, please note that at this point, I consider the eCat/Hyperion arena a giant waste of time. I admit to being baffled and cling to fading hope that the 7 scientists involved in the HotCat test have not been duped or worse. I sincerely hope that my radar is broken – the world needs a miracle more than I need to be right.

Despite the best efforts of our hardest sceptics, there is still a slim chance that Rossi’s bizarre behaviour is symptomatic of a lone genius riding a tiger. Unfortunately, apart from that one report, almost every other ‘fact’ supports the tentative conclusion that he is mentally ill or a fraud.

I give even less credence to Defkalion. The recent demo was impressive while you can suspend disbelief but that is only possible if you ignore that they too seem to be working to the beat of Rossi’s strange business philosophy. A child asked to test a furnace capable of multiplying heat energy with a COP of six or more could prove it absolutely and with ease without revealing what’s in the box. After years of failing to do so and given the extraordinary nature of their claims, if you do not wonder why, you are better at suspending that disbelief than I.

I could list a litany of clues informing my best guess but it’s all in the comments for those willing to look.

I have a keen interest in the dynamics of co-operation and thank all of you who have taken part in the discussion here and elsewhere. You may not have seen it as co-operating but in probing all corners and comparing what has been said with the reality of later events, we are able to build a better picture and recognise our own weak arguments for what they are. It is sometimes difficult to differentiate a troll from a person who simply disagrees with you. That problem is compounded when money is at stake. Emotions run high and conspiracy theories rampant. If fraud is indeed at the centre of this story, it is hard to believe those involved would not pepper the conversation with multiple personalities disguised as sincere believers.

For now, I will leave the discussion open. I continue to ask you to keep emotions in check and hold back on the tendency to call the peripheral players in this saga idiots or worse – these are real people and you do not know them.

To the hard sceptics, do not let the certainties that drive you cloud your thinking. I was disappointed in the quality of many of the rebuttals regarding the HotCat test. You do not need to exaggerate or throw shit at everyone involved – your arguments are strong enough without that nonsense and diminished with it. While my best guess puts me at your side, I do not believe that we can discount the Levi paper as insignificant. The jury is out whether its significance lies in the incredible dynamics of human behaviour or in the future history of the world. I know where my bet would lie. It’s a bet I’d gladly lose.


Edited to clarify that this post refers to the eCat and its like. Although, we cannot predict the outcome of such research, I do not consider LENR to be a waste of time or its researchers anything but scientists trying to find the truth.

Posted by on August 6, 2013. Filed under Defkalion,Tests & Demos. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

1,746 Responses to Breaking News

  1. CuriousChris

    August 28, 2013 at 11:44 pm

    DSM wrote..

    “Are you offering it as ‘proven fact’ or an ‘opinion’ when you mock the notion that there are people and groups who are opposed to any progress in LENR/LENR+”

    Yes I am saying a provable fact that your statement…

    “I am in little doubt that the tSCOg vs IBM affair was a mild trade war by comparison to the effort to cripple LENR/LENR+ progress.”

    Is the statement of the mind of someone who is unable to keep up a coherent and intelligent thought, a provable fact that in your infantile ways you will believe any stupid notion.

    This statement of yours does not allude to a few minor groups. It alludes to a major coordinated and multimillion dollar attack against LENR and those that would further its cause.

    This is according to you not some small group, this is a massive cover up, which makes the SCO patent war seem ‘mild’. These are your words.

    We will over the coming few days discover how massive this cover up must be to make YOUR statement seem like something other than the ravings of a verbose nut case who’s only recourse when called on to prove his statements is to resort to diversion and ad hominem attacks.

    That this cover up you are so convinced DWARVES the Microsoft SCO patent war proves that if we are to believe you, your hero Mike McKubre is nothing more than a fool to be ignored or part of this massive cover up.

    For those of you that are newer to this little forum. Some background is in order.

    DSM took umbrage at me and others saying that it was wrong of Mike McKubre (DSM’s hero) to support Bob Rhoner’s claim of a Plasma engine. An attempt at replicating Papp’s engine. Papp is a well known scammer.

    Since then he has launched into hysterical rants. Taken every opportunity to belittle me and needle me with barbs. Up until now I have ignored him and his infantile ways. But he has decided now to make a claim about something I feel somewhat passionate about. He has joined the tin foil hat brigade that believes governments and major companies cover up advances in technology. That Perpetual Motion and LENR (not that we would need it with PM) would be here with us today if it wasn’t for these selfish and greedy corporations and their government puppets.

    It is the argument of a flailing mind and I am calling you out DSM

    Provide proof of your claims.

    • dsm

      August 29, 2013 at 12:53 am

      When you can debate in a mature manner & stop the tirade of ridicule and venting of past angers, we may be able to make progress. It seems to me you are now on a characteristic rampage railing against a notion you don’t like and dragging up long dead past upsets that you can’t let go of or deal with.
      WTF has this past sh*t you posted got to do with the current point ? – SFA !. Not only is it sh*t from the past but you twist the points to altogether different meanings (you simply have lied) – my issue with you back then was your slandering of McKubre and that Bob R had a right to demo his device at Tesla conf ! – CHRIS, LET IT GO IT IS WARPING YOU – if for no other reason then let it go just for your mental health!.
      CC Posted (revised history) …
      “DSM took umbrage at me and others saying that it was wrong of Mike McKubre (DSM’s hero) to support Bob Rhoner’s claim of a Plasma engine. An attempt at replicating Papp’s engine. Papp is a well known scammer.”
      Chris – grow up and move on. You are now acting like a bag of anger & poison. You are the one now ranting and claiming it is me doing it ???.
      Just accept that we do not agree on certain issues one being that it is IMHO entirely reasonable for someone to come to the conclusion that there are people who have a reason to cripple LENR/LENR+ progress. OK ?. Move on or wallow in yet another flame war !.

    • JNewman

      August 29, 2013 at 1:02 am

      Have fun, Chris. DSM’s only response to any direct and specific challenge to anything he says is to get into a flame war. He does not defend his beliefs. Ever. So go for it. It should provide some entertainment in any case.

      • dsm

        August 29, 2013 at 1:11 am

        Pray tell “what challenge” or are you joining in CC’s demented demands (payback again ?).
        DSM STATED “Just accept that we do not agree on certain issues one being that it is IMHO entirely reasonable for someone to come to the conclusion that there are people who have a reason to cripple LENR/LENR+ progress. OK ?.”
        Now how do we prove this one way or another. ?
        You are intelligent enough to know it cannot be proven to either party’s satisfaction any more than IBM could prove in 2004 that Microsoft had funded the tSCOg attack on Linux attack via Baystar capital.
        But most IMHO sane people can read the story details (made easier when one was there and gathered by Groklaw) and come to a reasonable conclusion.
        But what you are doing (as did CC) is attacking the person and ignoring the points.
        Now, from what was posted above and repeated here, which are you wanting to debate ?
        Cheers DSM

      • CuriousChris

        August 29, 2013 at 11:34 am

        Yes I see the perfect example

        DSM Can’t back up his outrageous claims so he flames.

        • LCD

          September 4, 2013 at 8:22 pm

          This coming from you Chris and JNewman.

          Don’t worry DSM most SANE people here don’t even pay attention to these guys.

          Probably should stop engaging them it just encourages more stupidities to exit from their keyboards.

  2. JNewman

    August 29, 2013 at 1:26 am

    The point Chris wants to debate is your statement “I am in little doubt that the tSOg was a mild trade war by comparison with the effort to cripple LENR/LENR+ progress.”

    You have conveniently morphed that ridulous assertion into “there are people who have a reason to cripple LENR/LENR+ progress.”

    Do you seriously claim that those two statements of yours are saying the same thing?

    Your original statement is tinfoil hat worthy. Your revised statement is trivially true but pointless.

    This silly game you play wherein you declare any challenge to something you say to be a personal attack is really tiresome. If you don’t want challenges to overblown, unsupportable statements, then don’t make them.

    • dsm

      August 29, 2013 at 1:35 am

      At last we start to focus on a point but did you need to add in the personal attack crap. Just stick to the point.
      Don’t you see that getting personal is as good as killing the topic.
      AND to remind you, it was this very to the point post of mine (no personal crap) that sent CC of on his explosive rant (so how do you debate with a person who prefers emotion over detail ? – CC’s explosive ramble to the below post killed any discussion with him dead !) …


      August 28, 2013 at 11:10 pm

      Do you think there are *any* lessons to be learned from the Linux war ?
      Are you offering it as ‘proven fact’ or an ‘opinion’ when you mock the notion that there are people and groups who are opposed to any progress in LENR/LENR+



      • JNewman

        August 29, 2013 at 1:44 am

        Just stick to the point? Please do. Do you retract your initial statement, or do you claim that it is the same thing as your second statement? Nothing personal. Just clarify what your position actually is with regard to opposition to LENR. Are you saying there is some sort of major effort to cripple LENR (original statement) or are you saying there are people who would want to cripple progress in LENR (second statement)? If you truly want to stay focused, just answer the question.

        • dsm

          August 29, 2013 at 1:47 am

          If you are willing to debate these below points (not the cherry picked and out of context sentence you posted above, and will say you will do so devoid of personal insults then I am in … but if trading insults is to be included then as in the past I’ll ignore you.
          DSM Posted elsewhere …
          Point here is there is a lot more at stake in the LENR/LENR+ world and if Microsoft can spend 100 mill to try to blunt Linux via tSCOg I have no doubt what could and would be spent to cripple any LENR/LENR+ progress.
          After inhabiting these blogs for a couple of years and had the chance to speak to some of the core people who have been involved, I am in little doubt that the tSCOg vs IBM affair was a mild trade war by comparison to the effort to cripple LENR/LENR+ progress.


          • JNewman

            August 29, 2013 at 2:02 am

            Ok, DSM. Got the full context. 1) You, obviously, are convinced that LENR is the real deal. 2) You further believe that various unidentified powerful people who stand to lose from its ascendance also think so. 3) Therefore, you reason that there is a concerted effort by such people to cripple LENR progress.

            Well, 3 is not an unreasonable opinion to hold if you ascribe to opinions 1 and 2. Personally, I am very skeptical about 1 and am far more skeptical about 2. Therefore I find 3 totally preposterous. But that’s ok. We can agree to disagree.

            However, you should realize that arguing for a very implausible position on the basis of two other very implausible positions is not an easy task. But more power to you.

            Peace to you.

          • dsm

            August 29, 2013 at 2:11 am

            As I suspected you don’t want to debate this at all !
            Ahh well if it suits you to put your warped words in my mouth (following your contrived logic) after I quoted (in context) my original points, then so be it.
            So yes this is me being insulting in return … “crawl off and wait for another day to ‘try’ to get revenge as you keep seeming to want to do !”.
            You and CuriousChris have so much in common and it isn’t nice. But to be fair CuriousChris is a far more seriously hopeless case than you, at the moment !.
            But after all, this is blog space & that isn’t always nice 🙂

          • JNewman

            August 29, 2013 at 2:20 am

            Boy, being conciliatory doesn’t work with you at all, does it? Always ready to stomp off in a huff.

            What exactly is it that we should debate? Whether LENR exists? Whether there are powerful enemies out there? I don’t know what there is to discuss. We disagree about those two basic facts. Perhaps you have additional information that the rest of us don’t have that buttress your position. I don’t know.

            I have no interest in trading insults whatsoever. But if it is debate you want, then please explain exactly what it is we are debating. I don’t really see any real grist for discussion contained in what has been written so far. You made a declarative statement about there being efforts to cripple LENR. You provided no evidence for that statement. So you have your opinion and I have mine. What else can we say about it?

          • dsm

            August 29, 2013 at 2:30 am

            LOL – I offered you a debate devoid of insults & what do you do ?
            Where in your posts did you NOT put your words in my mouth and make the overtures of walking away ? – If due to blogging insensitivity I didn’t pick up on ‘good overtures’ then I am sorry. Genuinely!.
            As I said before, blog space isn’t nice.
            The easiest thing is to meet face to face so we can learn to trust based on what we see.
            I will add that over 18 months ago I made such an offer to CuriousChris and got no response. Back then I figered he was in the same city as me and that if we met we would have a chance to better understand where each was coming from and why we had such divergent views on slander and right to demo.
            So, if you were making peace, it did not reach me and as I said, that is something to be sorry about.

          • JNewman

            August 29, 2013 at 2:36 am

            Ok, DSM. Let’s ignore the last 3 or 4 exchanges which somehow have ruffled your feathers and start over.

            You offered to debate some specific issue contained within this discussion thread. I am having trouble understanding what it is you wish to debate. So please help me out. I am quite willing to have a reasonable discussion but I honestly don’t know what specifically it is you wish to discuss.

          • dsm

            August 29, 2013 at 2:57 am

            You stepped into this thread of your own volition and offered your opinion on what you believed CuriousChris wanted an answer to.
            I pointed out that the quote you used was out of context and reposted the full context.
            I tried to explain this when I pointed out that in the tSCOg vs IBM/Linux war, that not even IBM could go to the US DOJ and point out what Microsoft was doing because back then they lacked ‘court of law’ evidence. In ‘reality’ Microsoft did it in a ‘skunk works’ sting (we now know who when where) but that only became clear years later.
            My points are as clear as I can put as to my belief that the effort to cripple LENR/LENR+ would greatly exceed anything Microsoft undertook to kill Linux.
            Now had we all at the time not been able to see the obvious (attack on Linux) then we may not have formed Groklaw and dragged the dirt out into the open that exposed tSCOg and Microsoft to what was an anti-trust action.
            If I transpose the scenario of tSCOg vs IBM/Linux to today, You and CC are in effect as at 2004 demanding that I ‘prove’ that Microsoft was behind the tSCOg attack. That didn’t come out until after we formed Groklaw and with the help of open source information gathering, cornered and nailed the rats. And that achievement was because a lot of smart people could guess what was happening and work as we did through Groklaw to prove it.

          • JNewman

            August 29, 2013 at 3:09 am

            Alright. Put in the conditionals (the effort “would greatly exceed”) and you are probably correct. If there really is LENR and there really are powerful entities that believe it exists and would be harmed by its emergence, then those entities could well put up quite a fight and might well fight dirty.

            Given that I don’t think there is a real technology at stake here and I further don’t think the powers that be do either, I believe that all these woulds and coulds amount to nothing. But that is my personal opinion just as your diametrically opposed position is your personal opinion.

            So what else can we say?

          • dsm

            August 29, 2013 at 3:18 am

            Now we are in agreement on the core matters.
            But as I have always done, I consider that advocating LENR/LENR+ research is reasonable and not deserving of attack or ridicule.
            It is this latter issue that divides many of us today.

          • JNewman

            August 29, 2013 at 3:31 am

            For what it is worth, I have no problem with those who advocate research on LENR. I don’t think it holds much promise, but thinking otherwise does not warrant ridicule.

            I am quite inclined to ridicule those who eagerly embrace whatever nonsense is spewed in the name of LENR by various con men, shills, and misguided souls simply because they wish it were all true. I am inclined to ridicule the hypocritical use of authority and credentials that only have value when they support the desired result. But those who sincerely believe that there are potential scientific advances lurking amongst all the tripe surrounding LENR and that it is worth searching for them get no abuse from me.

          • dsm

            August 29, 2013 at 3:55 am


            Cheers DSM

          • JKW

            August 29, 2013 at 3:59 am

            I see a decline in the quality of DSM’s arguments over time. Mostly allusions to alpha males (is that Mc Kubre?) and his general superiority of business knowledge(consulting for IBM). To be fair I see a decline in my posts too, but it’s because of the booze, so it’s OK. As far as DSM, I’m kinda worried..

          • dsm

            August 29, 2013 at 5:16 am

            You see nothing but an opportunity to butt in and yap. You my friend are nothing but a pack runt with little to contribute but your noise. But you keep doing it. Yap on bite where you can. But it is all show.

          • JKW

            August 29, 2013 at 5:45 am

            “You see nothing but an opportunity to butt in and yap. You my friend are nothing but a pack runt with little to contribute but your noise”
            You got it partially right, DSM. For some reason your opinionated, infantile, mouthing character gets me riled up sometimes. GreenWin at least has a class, while you have nothing more than your feline pack analogies. Here you miss miserably, too. Cesar Milan you are not, puppy.

          • dsm

            August 29, 2013 at 5:51 am

            You simply have nothing – but you just can’t help yourself.
            Carry on.

          • JKW

            August 29, 2013 at 6:05 am

            I have more than McKubre and you, my friend. It’s called – common sense.

          • Dsm

            August 29, 2013 at 10:08 am

            So JKW
            You are trying to tell us that butting in to post pure flamebait is your notion of’commonsense.
            Please pass that Shiraz, I might join you in one. IMHO that is the best we may ever get from you. LOL.

  3. JohnP

    August 29, 2013 at 3:56 am

    My background is not in physics, but in language. For some time now the English of Rossi at JONP has sounded fake to me. Not a real colorful foreigner, but Rossi’s idea of how a colorful foreigner should write. His mistakes were too perfect. The problem is that I had nothing to compare it with. Now I do.

    See what happens when Rossi is not talking about the Ecat and breaks character.

    Suddenly the guy who cannot spell independent, outsourcing or recalculate has no problem with rigorous, symmetrical, intrinsic or biosphere.

    You won’t find a single example of misspelled word or mangled grammar in the entire Higgs Boson explanation.

    I cannot judge his explanation from a scientific point of view, but I can tell you this is how Rossi writes, at JONP he’s playing a character.

    • JNewman

      August 29, 2013 at 4:32 am

      Wait a minute. Are you saying that there is something fishy about Rossi? That all is not as he claims? I simply cannot believe that.

      • RonB

        August 29, 2013 at 9:15 am

        Wait a minute. Are you saying that there is something fishy about Rossi? That all is not as he claims? I simply cannot believe that


        • GreenWin

          August 29, 2013 at 1:12 pm

          Yes. Rossi is a diversion from the real cold fusion work being done by Navy and contract aliens.

          • JNewman

            August 29, 2013 at 3:25 pm

            If by aliens you mean… you know, aliens… I have a question: how do you pay them?

          • GreenWin

            August 30, 2013 at 5:13 am

            Come on JN, you are not keeping up with your Woo-quota. Aliens do not need money. They need people.

            Personally, I prefer them with lima beans. Your friend, GreenWin.

    • dsm

      August 29, 2013 at 5:12 am

      Do you actually believe he wrote it ?
      I don’t (unless it was wordsmithed by someone else)

      • JohnP

        August 29, 2013 at 5:41 am

        Oh, yes, it was Rossi. The comment about the snake. Vintage Rossi.

        This was Rossi when he’s not playing himself.

    • GreenWin

      August 29, 2013 at 1:22 pm


      1) “…my ‘vulgarization’ will raise not few eyebrows.”

      2) “… in few words, they FEEL their mass.”

      Someone has difficulty with the plural pronoun “few.”

      • JohnP

        August 29, 2013 at 3:43 pm

        GreenWin, yes, it should have been “a few” in both cases, but that is to be expected from a foreigner. On the other hand, the use of “not few” instead of “many” implies a certain sophistication.

        JKW, thanks for the “Sterling engine”. I don’t think he’s an imbecile, he’s playing a part.

      • Donald Rangle

        August 29, 2013 at 4:21 pm

        Someone has difficulty with parts of speech. “Few” is a pronoun in “Many are called, but few are chosen,” but in those sentences it’s an adjective. And the problem is with the missing article.

  4. JKW

    August 29, 2013 at 6:39 am

    You have something there. It takes an imbecile to constantly spell “Sterling engine” while claiming to have found a theory that explains LENR, CF, and transmutation of Ni to something (Cu? Santa candy canes?) within established physics.
    I guess this is what Rossi is – an imbecile with a knack to ease some folks off their wallets.

  5. Dale G. Basgall

    August 29, 2013 at 11:55 am

    JohnP – JKW there used to be an advantage for the inventor to misspell the same words over and over. Usually any work copied from the true inventor and taken to be used for someone else’s advantage of sort will use spell check when re-producing the original document and clean it up professionally.

    So when a patent is infringed on the true inventor retains all his original work and goes into the Federal Court with his or her original misspelled work. Judges used to like the hand written work and computer generated evidence has less weight than hand written misspelled work.

    It doesn’t matter though now in the “first to patent” system, meaning no matter if you have all the original documents from the onset of the invention it’s the first entity that receives a valid patent and not the first to invent the device or process. I did that with my work just to insure an original draft, usually the inventor misspells the same words over and over in their work. It simply means their literature is flawed and not that they are mentally deficient.

    So to judge that a person is or is not who they write their name to be is stretching a bit.

    Regardless the conventional theories cropping up today regarding LENR there is a probable outcome to a theory using nuclear physics. Stretching is the likelihood that a pentaquark can be formed or separated containing an available meson, hence the coined term “meson jar”. Use any metal you want, the “meson jar” interacting an event with a virtual particle could fuse any number of matter.

    Just for entertainment work out the math on the chain, interesting at minimum.

    • Dale G. Basgall

      August 29, 2013 at 11:28 pm

      A post below mentioned the coulomb barrier but in the virtual particle/pentaquark theory of an explanation we are working on the C-barrier has no affect as well as the baryon conservation is preserved.

      Nice, this is really falling together now, hopefully poetic also.

      • JKW

        August 30, 2013 at 10:56 pm

        Dale, Striling engine has nothing to do with Rossi’s patent claims. Nothing mentioned there. He just had a freudian slip, hanging around Sterling Allan characters (Acland included) who are the only ones that take him “seriously” these days. Mostly for their diminutive personal income from fringe websites.

  6. CuriousChris

    August 29, 2013 at 12:12 pm

    And so it starts

    This thread is in response to DSM’s wild and unfounded claim that… “I am in little doubt that the tSCOg vs IBM affair was a mild trade war by comparison to the effort to cripple LENR/LENR+ progress.”

    As is outlined here…

    DSM you make accusations which you have no proof for not even circumstantial.

    So lets start at the beginning of this school kid fantasy you have.

    For there to be a large worldwide cover up of LENR it must have started many decades ago. At some point some energy company must have realised that LENR was going to be the answer to the worlds energy problems (which by the way hadn’t occurred yet) so they decided to rope in all the governments around the world to help suppress this knowledge of LENR otherwise their profits would fall.

    So they got all the worlds governments together into some form of meeting and they all decided to a man! that yes we will suppress this one day LENR technology.

    The best way to do this was to introduce a fake but plausible reason LENR could never work. So they decide to introduce the Coulomb Barrier.

    This was then taught throughout schools around the world. physics students were indoctrinated with this false belief that you could not get past the coulomb barrier without expending enormous amounts of energy.

    Thus they set in motion so many decades ago the grand plan to deny the existence of LENR. Really it was easy for them. they had already been doing it for centuries about PMM’s.

    Getting China and the Middle Eastern countries to play along (again) was a bit tricky. But they had many members (we will call them the Illuminati) strategically positioned for just this scenario.

    The hundreds of scientists at the centre of this fraud were well paid and guaranteed to never ever let on what was happening.

    And so started “the effort to cripple LENR/LENR+ progress.”

    I assume DSM you have some proof that this is happening, because to make your statement even remotely plausible this is how it must have started.


    • Jami

      August 29, 2013 at 12:48 pm

      “got all the worlds governments together into some form of meeting”

      Naa, they did it during lunch break at a regular UFO-hush-up jour-fix.

      • CuriousChris

        August 29, 2013 at 2:09 pm

        Yeah you are probably right. it was immediately after the Perpetual Motion Debunking forum in the morning and before the Pathoskeps society meeting that afternoon.

  7. GreenWin

    August 29, 2013 at 1:27 pm

    “GreenWin at least has a class…”

    I resemble this remark.

    • Thicket

      August 29, 2013 at 8:40 pm

      “GreenWin at least has a classic case of woo-wooitis.”

      I thought I’d complete the sentence.

      • JKW

        August 30, 2013 at 11:08 pm

        Thank you, Thicket. You are right in a way. My intention was say that GreenWin would probably not resolve to call anyone a “runt”. He has more civilized ways to try to belittle his opponents.

    • JKW

      August 30, 2013 at 11:11 pm

      I thought you would, even though I did not post your image.

      • GreenWin

        August 31, 2013 at 5:16 pm

        Thank you JKW!

  8. Al Potenza

    August 29, 2013 at 5:39 pm

    I just caught up with this thread a bit and it seems DSM is promoting the nut case idea that large industries actively oppose LENR because they are afraid of it.

    That’s total whacko. Name ONE industry that does it and then show HOW it does it, who it pays, what they do, and how they do it. Follow the anti-LENR money. Of course there is none.

    Other than what Big Oil and Big Nuklooeir pays me, little old me, to counter all the woowoos who think Rossi and Defkalion actually made reactors that work. … wish they did pay me.

    GreenWin has class? Where? Why? Paranoia is class now?

    • JNewman

      August 29, 2013 at 5:52 pm

      Al, all the chatter last night never got to the most salient point: even if large industries actively opposed LENR because they were afraid of it, there isn’t a damn thing they could do about it. Somebody somewhere would bring it into the marketplace or into some country’s resource base. This is obvious, unless there is an evil global entity that controls everything and everyone without exception. Of course, that notion is probably fairly popular among some folks around here.

      • RonB

        August 29, 2013 at 7:44 pm

        there isn’t a damn thing they could do about it.

        That seems to be naive in the extreme.

        Follow the anti-LENR money. Of course there is none.

        It’s rarely that overt.

        • JNewman

          August 29, 2013 at 7:52 pm

          You seriously believe that a world-changing technology could or would be suppressed by every country on the planet? You seriously believe that there is anything that the entire world with all its political, industrial, and religious factions could act on cooperatively and in secret? You may think I am naive in the extreme, but if you think such a thing is possible in this age of the Internet, wikileaks, pervasive cellphones, and universal spying, then you are a member of the tin foil hat crowd.

          Instead of dreaming up international cabals, consider the far more likely scenario that LENR just doesn’t work.

        • Al Potenza

          August 29, 2013 at 8:25 pm

          What JNewman said. At least, so-called LENR+ (Rossi and Defkalion and other kilowatt claims) doesn’t work. I have no idea about the rest of LENR though the people working in the field and their papers are extremely unimpressive.

          “It’s rarely that overt.”

          OK then. Rossi has had a kilowatt factory heater since 2007 and a megawatt plant for sale since October 2011. He claims military clients and other “customers”. How have these been suppressed?

          Defkalion said they were getting tests from some of the largest companies in the world who wanted to work with them. That was mid year 2011. How have these been suppressed?

          • JNewman

            August 29, 2013 at 9:10 pm

            Just for accuracy’s sake, I am not proclaiming that LENR doesn’t work (or LENR+, whatever the hell that is supposed to be.) I really don’t know if it does or not. I am addressing the topic of the alleged international conspiracy against LENR. Why would anyone think there is such a thing? Clearly because LENR has not emerged into the light as a recognized phenomenon. Presumably the argument is that it would emerge if it wasn’t suppressed. So I am saying that a far simpler explanation for its non-emergence is that it doesn’t work – or at least nobody seems to be able to prove it.

          • RonB

            August 30, 2013 at 3:39 am

            actively oppose LENR

            Al, I was talking about LENR not the side show.

            Newman, I am addressing the topic of the alleged international conspiracy against LENR

            I just talking about people making a joke out of it and grouping it with tinfoil hat science. Like some kind of group think control. I think that kind of suppression is possible and has been used by powerful people in the past.

          • JNewman

            August 30, 2013 at 3:53 am

            Ridiculing LENR work is undoubtedly a way to discourage people from working on it. But it has no effect on the results of any experiments performed. If competent scientists performed high-quality experiments that yielded unambiguous positive results, the ridicule would stop. What attracts ridicule is endless unfounded claims and declarations of victory based on shoddy work. And frankly, it is also the fierce loyalty of LENR fans who don’t have the background to competently assess the results they are excited about.

        • Dale G. Basgall

          August 29, 2013 at 9:06 pm

          Had Focardi claimed he knew about the reactions producing tritium and transmutations and not been vague in his picture in origin stating that ” we do not know how it works”, then, possibly Rossi could have had something working. They didn’t, neither Rossi or Focardi stepped up and said things that were definite.

          Only the followers here will dispute the involvement of a higher need to put out the flame in LENR.

          At least the opposers of the possibility that LENR could be worth suppressing on a global scale could just step back and look at the scenario as possible would be more a likely story.

          It is obvious however that Rossi had no way of making a product based on the Rossi reactions because no one to date has explained what is happening and there have been no products emerge to the general public, and that surely does not mean it does not exist.

          There is a possibility that a suppression could exist and there are those that suppress on a global scale. There are no contracts and when you are contacted by these types you know for sure there is no way out, you either comply or simply slip from existence. That is hard fact but facing it means you have something that cannot be let out to the general public. LENR is possibly that which carries to much possibility of disruption that cannot be calculated until it is well understood.

          • JNewman

            August 29, 2013 at 9:14 pm

            Not even the high priest and guru of cold fusion Jed Rothwell thinks there is suppression going on. That dog just won’t hunt.

          • Ransompw

            August 29, 2013 at 9:42 pm


            As with most of this, I doubt if it is that clear cut. Maybe a little subtle suppression of an immature technology is possible, but if LENR were understood and ready for commerce, suppression would be impossible. Clearly, it is not understood and there is no evidence it is ready for commerce.

            The “is it real” question is a lot more interesting.

          • Deleo77

            August 29, 2013 at 11:47 pm

            I think suppressing a technology from coming to market would come in a different shape or form than literally preventing people from discovering it. How do you do that?

            If it took tens of billions of dollars to create a working LENR device and people wanted that to happen, but the government chose not to fund the research because they were being lobbied by power companies not to fund it, then I guess that is a form of suppression, but that really isn’t the case here. An actual working device could also be suppressed after it is created in some type of regulation that says they are not safe and cannot be sold, when really they are safe.

            But even then there are governments (like Japan) who want LENR, so someone could just sell the device there. Then it would take an international body to stop Japan from doing this. That seems like a stretch. People are driving Tesla electric cars today, and you don’t see the oil companies suppressing them. Sometimes I think entrenched players don’t take new technologies all that seriously, and they even don’t pay as much attention to them as they should.

          • Al Potenza

            August 30, 2013 at 12:16 am

            “As with most of this, I doubt if it is that clear cut. Maybe a little subtle suppression of an immature technology is possible, but if LENR were understood and ready for commerce, suppression would be impossible. Clearly, it is not understood and there is no evidence it is ready for commerce.”

            It has nothing to do with being understood. If robust power generation with LENR *worked*, it would be a commercial success soon. Whether *how* it worked was understood or not.

            The most likely problem is not that high power LENR isn’t understood. It’s that it doesn’t work. The best probability is that both Rossi and Defkalion are scamming and have nothing.

            As for low power LENR, I have no idea whether or not it’s real. The proponents give no clear cut or reliable method of determining that, despite their vociferous protestations to the contrary as voiced by Rothwell.

            If someone has a working reactor which makes kilowatts on their tabletop using a thimble full of fuel and runs for months without fresh fuel, a little subtle repression will matter about as much as a spiderweb matters to a bullet train at speed.

            The problem is that, most likely, nobody has robust LENR at all.

            “The “is it real” question is a lot more interesting.”

            I agree with that. And so far, the answer for robust LENR (LENR+ or whatever) is that it is not real because if it were, it would never be developed and demonstrated the way Rossi and Defkalion have chosen to proceed.

          • RonB

            August 30, 2013 at 3:56 am

            It’s nice to see that there’s some of you that are keeping an open mind to LENR. If you think it’s possible, why don’t you work on the problem and tell your friends you are.

            I suspect that many of you would feel odd telling your friends you were working on Cold Fusion. Even if all you were doing was thinking of ways it could be possible. I find that odd in itself.

          • JNewman

            August 30, 2013 at 4:37 am

            Ron, I think most scientists have an open mind about new phenomena. That is pretty much what science is about. In reality, it is the believer camp that do not have open minds about LENR. Somewhere along they way, they have become absolutely convinced that the phenomenon is real and reject any ideas to the contrary. On that basis, they can’t understand why others are not infatuated with the subject like they are.

            The thing is, based on the available data, I don’t find the subject very interesting. It seems like a lot of poor experimental work to me and little more than that. Why should I want to pursue it? Because it would be really great if it was real? Lots of things would be great if they were real. Because there are people who are convinced it is real? There are people who are convinced that all kinds of outlandish things are real. Most scientists don’t want to pursue research into LENR because, in their view, there are far better ways to spend their time. Just because you are fascinated by it, that doesn’t make it fascinating.

            So why do I spend time discussing it here? Because the deep emotional bond that LENR believers have to the topic is fascinating… Far more fascinating than LENR itself so far.

          • RonB

            August 30, 2013 at 11:33 am

            If you did decide to work on cold fusion, would you feel odd telling your friends you were working on that?

          • JNewman

            August 30, 2013 at 12:29 pm

            Ron, probably so. There is no doubt that there is a stigma attached to the field. Some of that is the consequence of the derision provided by skeptics of the field, but much has been earned by the unprofessional behavior of its practitioners. It cuts both ways.

    • CuriousChris

      August 30, 2013 at 12:25 am

      The story is building. I will show you how they do it and I will also show how some of the so called LENR promoters are actually activally working towards its suppression.

      Its a surprising tale now that DSM has forced me to think about his wonderful and fully logical tale of LENR suppression.

      We don’t have to worry about any Snowdens here. The suppression of LENR is far too well organised. A full dissertation of how it came to be would take several books so I am skipping to only the most salient points where it relates to CF/LENR/LENR+

      I hope to have time to continue tonight…

      • Al Potenza

        August 30, 2013 at 1:40 am

        Halloween is near. I can’t decide whether to go as a clown or a snake.

  9. R Hopeful

    August 30, 2013 at 6:00 pm

    In the “too good to be true” category:

    What the heck? I would dismiss it as another stupid scam. This article is from a very reputable newspaper, and Mr Darragh is a professor in an excellent university.

    I cannot find any other sources.

    • GreenWin

      August 30, 2013 at 6:40 pm

      I do not trust newspapers. Well, maybe trades, like Footwear News. I especially do not trust the fabrications of a “professor in an excellent university.” Much less SEVEN professors. Poppycock!

    • R Hopeful

      August 30, 2013 at 7:15 pm

      This is the web site for the product, with availability and public endorsements. But most of the details sound like a pile of BS.
      Harold Lawler is not the director of the National Botanical Gardens -Matthew Jebb is:

      The patent seems to be pending:

      I guess they are making things up hoping that some people bite without checking the facts.

      The trick will probably work.

      Which reminds me: if Rossi and DGT are lying, why make it so complicated? Somebody said that scams come in all shapes, but this is so weird…

    • Thicket

      August 30, 2013 at 9:30 pm

      For a good laugh about this article, read

      Mr. Darragh is quoted in the article as claiming radio wave energized water is wetter. That’s right, wetter. Too funny.

      Darragh is in his 80’s.

      Professor JJ Leahy bio on the Limerick University site makes no mention of work on energized water. He’s done some good research on other subjects.

      • R Hopeful

        August 30, 2013 at 9:40 pm

        Professors do have an expiration date.

        • Al Potenza

          August 31, 2013 at 12:28 am

          And a best by date.

          • RonB

            August 31, 2013 at 1:52 am

            But at least they keep their sense of humour.

            Filing date Apr 1, 2009


      • PersonFromPorlock

        September 2, 2013 at 12:15 am

        Well, making water ‘wetter’ (i.e., it soaks in better – lowered surface tension?) is what detergent does, so it’s possible. Whether radio waves do it I don’t know.

  10. Jordi Heguilor

    August 30, 2013 at 7:46 pm

    The “Suppression Theory” made me realize how stupid the Powers To Be are.

    FIRST they splash Pons and Fleishmann picture on the front page of every magazine and newspaper on Earth, THEN they spend the next quarter of a century suppressing the technology that they themselves revealed.

    I thought the Illuminati were smarter than the rest of us…

    • RonB

      August 30, 2013 at 8:07 pm

      Good point Jordi. Although if they needed to make an example to poison the well, they did a good job of it.

      • Jordi Heguilor

        August 31, 2013 at 5:00 pm

        The Illuminate ARE smarter than us!

        They were afraid of LENR but they also knew that P&F’s invention did not work, so they used P&F to “immunize” the world against LENR.

        No wonder they control the world…

  11. GreenWin

    August 30, 2013 at 8:18 pm

    I thought the Illuminati were smarter than the rest of us…

    Everyone makes mistakes.

    • JKW

      August 30, 2013 at 11:19 pm

      GreenWin, you do have a class or two.

  12. Dale G. Basgall

    August 31, 2013 at 6:12 am

    I would like to see a post saying I received a Rossi Hot Cat for my house and it really works good. Or a Hyperion has reached my doorstep and now I am happily warm and it works just fine.

    How many days until the news breaks? Like waiting for the pot to boil without conventionally understood fire.

    • Dale G. Basgall

      August 31, 2013 at 6:30 am

      After posting that I was questioning how come that the Hyperion or the Rossi Hot Cat has no feature claims to the product?

      You would think a product would have features for salability to the public sector. How come neither Rossi or Defkalion has mentioned any features at all? Like heats the average home from 32F to 68F in three minutes. Produces available steam for cooking in just 2 minutes, and so on it’s an endless game here.

      After all sales is the key point to product production so why wouldn’t either entity have feature claims for their products? Wow, what a eye opener…

      Why would they not describe the best method they knew of using their products? After all those are two requirements to be enriched by a design of a patented product. The best method and process to manufacture the invention by the inventor as well as the best way to use the invention.

      This is not looking good for the two that claimed a self destruct mechanism that was designed into their vaguely described products claimed. In fact they have no products it appears, may as well find the next generation of LENR product producers using a formula of some type to re produce the excess thermal energy output.

      • Al Potenza

        August 31, 2013 at 10:45 pm

        “How come neither Rossi or Defkalion has mentioned any features at all? “

        Because the products are probably a scam. They’re probably not real. In all likelihood, there have been no products designed and none sold by either Defkalion and Rossi. Not a single one. Ever.

    • JKW

      August 31, 2013 at 6:31 am

      Dale, don’t complain. You are better off than most of us. We get winters here.

  13. GreenWin

    August 31, 2013 at 5:11 pm

    “It’s not easy being green…” We wonder after 62 years, when will the hot fusionists give up their too cheap to meter electricity? According to the UK Inst. of Engineering Technology – not soon. ‘Cause the BBC has banned engineers:

    “BBC has managed to write 5 articles on [ITER] fusion not interview even one UK engineer, and with only one quote from a physicist mentioning engineering, engineers have now become almost completely invisible in our society.”

    “Seemingly rational physicists tell me to my face that ITER needs to be a physics led project because the physicists do not understand enough about plasma physics yet to make the engineering design calls.”

    Just one percent of the bloated ITER $20B budget would make Kermit happy!

    • Dale G. Basgall

      August 31, 2013 at 5:58 pm

      I have worked with several physicists in the past 10 years and to say respectfully none were able to design the mechanical apparatus of their experiments they projected on the team.

      Engineers/mechanics that are very experienced take information from a physicist that does the theory or experiment of their intellectual property and put it into a mechanical device.

      The engineers simply follow the wishes of the physicists and are usually skilled in machining, electromagnetic construction, and other specialized traits. The physicists are of a different skillset, mostly reciting figures and what they have seen and done before their new venture project.

      So all the physicists you can think of who have great brains on one project and the engineers/mechanics with their skills should read as an old saying.

      I can’t think of the correct one but it goes something like this; Team-Team-Team.

      Money Team – Theoretical Team – Working Team and with all cooperating freely many unknowns can come to reality.

      Unfortunately it has never worked out as the best case scenario because of the personalities of the Teams clash instead of marry together. So separation is indeed the only solution to some type of result.

  14. Al Potenza

    September 1, 2013 at 1:29 am

    Looks as if every day that goes by, there is less and less to post about Rossi and Defkalion. The press mostly ignores them except for the whack jobs. That certainly is the way energy revolutions develop, isn’t it? With less and less activity until they are essentially doing nothing.

    I suggest they rename Rossi’s machine the e-catatonic.

    • RonB

      September 1, 2013 at 6:26 am

      There is an old saying that would seem apropos.
      “It’s always darkest just before the dawn”

      • Al Potenza

        September 1, 2013 at 7:32 pm

        I think it can only get darker for Rossi and Defkalion.

        • RonB

          September 1, 2013 at 8:38 pm

          It’s pretty puzzling why the DGT folks don’t try to address all the shortcomings of their last public demo. That makes me wonder about the veracity of their claims.

          • Al Potenza

            September 2, 2013 at 2:14 am

            Oh gee, they addressed it all in mid 2011. Why do it again? Then, they had liquid calorimetry (no phase change) in *all* their dozens of reactors under continuous test. Then, dozens or more of companies, all very famous and large, tested their Hyperions. The last they mentioned specifically were in April 2012 but of course it goes on all the time. Testing is a continuous process with Defkalion… if you read their forum. Oh they deleted the forum… Oh well never mind.

            In ICCF17, they announced 350 degree C operation with thermal oil coolant. Not showing it to Lewan must have been an oversight. Or the technician at Defkalion had something more important to do such as rearranging his glassware drawer.

            They only showed Mats Lewan and ICCF18 a piece of junk plumbing that made an indeterminate amount of steam badly measured because they wanted to mislead their competition… which is… well… they won’t say.

            Get it all now?

            I guess Hadjichristos could correct anything above which isn’t right. Or maybe Xanthi-baby (Xanthoulis) could… if he wanted to.

  15. Longjohns

    September 1, 2013 at 3:25 am

    Take some Valium. You are being way too bipolar about this.

    • Dale G. Basgall

      September 2, 2013 at 2:31 am

      Longjohns doing drugs is not part of this forum, is that how you deal with things in your life? Get real these are some real sincere posters as well as scientists on this forum, so doing drugs is not in their life.

      Respectfully get off the drug scenario it is a ludicrous post here.

  16. Jordi Heguilor

    September 2, 2013 at 3:36 pm

    The more I delve into the Suppression Theory the more amazed I am at its success.

    I bet none of you knew that the only reason Lindbergh was able to cross the Atlantic was that he had a Hendershot Generator on board of the “Spirit of Saint Louis”?

    Unless you are a pathoskeptic you’ll agree with me that history has to be re-written.

  17. Harry Perini

    September 2, 2013 at 8:16 pm

    How about a Magnetic Tunneling Generator ?

    COP of 10.–Tunnel_MagnetoResistance–New_Source_of_Clean_Energy/

    Six units delivered !!

    • Jordi Heguilor

      September 3, 2013 at 12:12 am

      The thing about the Free Energy field is that it’s getting crowded. Anybody can connect a motor to a generator, or if that’s beyond their technical abilities, they can show a metal cabinet and SAY that there’s a motor connected to a generator inside, run a cable with a lamp, put it on YouTube, and VOILA, front page on PESN.

      So what’s now happening is that people are starting to compete about who can make the most outrageous claims. ONE overunity machine that would change the world is not enough, they have FOUR or FIVE free energy almost working.

      You may have your favorite, mine is Keshe ( Free Energy Generator? That’s only the beginning. Flying saucers, tractor beams, cure for all diseases, New New World Order, you name it. He’s like a mix of Rev. Moon and Dr. Emmett Brown. Well, if Dr. Emmett Brown were a con man.

      Normally I would apologize for going off-topic, but fact is nothing is happening regarding our blessed Ecat.

      • CuriousChris

        September 3, 2013 at 4:25 am

        Don’t you just love Keshe.

        He has invented everything, and solved every problem!

    • CuriousChris

      September 3, 2013 at 1:34 am

      I love the way they draw on things like

      “LED’s can also be coerced to behave in a way which is over 100% efficient.”

      This is not overunity: Do some research

      and “new solar cells which can be more than 100% efficient”

      This is not overunity: Do some research

      A spin battery must be charged up. eg. you need to put power in to get power out.

      This is not overunity: Do some research

      But back to the core of the article TMR or tunnelling magnetoresistance. The percentages they discuss are the percentages in change of resistance induced by a magnetic field. similarly a light switch on the wall has near infinite percentage. A normal transistor can have thousands of percent efficiency if you are talking about the input energy inducing a “change in resistance”

      At no point does this have anything to do with overunity in the form of more energy out than in.

      The usual BS thrown at people who do not understand the basics. And who don’t bother reading enough to find out.

    • JKW

      September 3, 2013 at 2:26 am

      Did you order one already, Harry?
      Yes: you had enough waiting for the crunch of the gravel on your driveway by the UPS delivery truck with your preordered ecat.
      No: you still are waiting for the fulfillment of Rossi as the savior.
      Yes and/or No: you are here for the laughs
      Define yourself, Harry.

  18. JKW

    September 3, 2013 at 4:59 am

    Diana Nyad had singlehandedly handled the IGZ 2013. Shame on you, GreenWin.

    • GreenWin

      September 5, 2013 at 12:32 am

      You are CORRECT JK… This woman is truly amazing. She inspires even old coots like me!!

  19. Alexvs

    September 3, 2013 at 10:41 am

    How about an overbalanced wheel ‘secundum Orffyreus’?

    COP > 1.

    Four units delivered from 1712 to 1717!!

  20. CuriousChris

    September 3, 2013 at 1:30 pm

    ecat update! UL ECAT Certification approved!!!

    I can’t believe it. I was on the UL site and I did an online search for Leonardo corp as expected I found nothing. But then I decided to search for ecat.


    The ecat has been certified in Bologna Italy, and is also approved for use in canada. Rossi must have snuck it in under another company name back in 2009.

    Dont believe me? Here is the certification…
    ecat certification

    And here is the ecat product range…
    Rossi sneakily certified it as a clock mechanism.

    Will his brilliance ever be matched?

    • Thicket

      September 3, 2013 at 3:03 pm

      Heh. Whodathunk that an eCat could be used to power church bells. 🙂

  21. Jordi Heguilor

    September 3, 2013 at 1:43 pm

    Ye of little faith! Here’s a recent scientific paper proving overunity:

    Damn skeptopaths…

    • JKW

      September 3, 2013 at 3:03 pm

      Jordi, could you please cut back on the OU machines here. No one is buying the stuff, all georgehunts have left for ECW for good. Thank you.

      • JKW

        September 3, 2013 at 3:12 pm

        Hmm.. Edit:
        All except, GreenWin and his Terawatt Research Inc. and its reputable board of trustees.

      • Jordi Heguilor

        September 3, 2013 at 9:30 pm

        JKW, I wasn’t trying to bait anybody, just providing some comic relief in the absence of any news. No problema, I’ll stick to REAL world-changing technologies…

        • JKW

          September 3, 2013 at 11:24 pm

          Jordi, I didn’t mean to inhibit anyone. This forum is deadwood anyway, the trunk will rot in its due time.
          Let the real technologies roar!?

          • R Hopeful

            September 4, 2013 at 3:25 pm

            Unfortunately yes, it is dead. And the optimistic forums contain only wishful thinking.

  22. JNewman

    September 3, 2013 at 3:29 pm

    Since this site is pretty dead at the moment, I wandered over to e-cat world to see what was up. There was a post criticizing a column at RealClearScience which was skeptical about cold fusion and about Rossi in particular. As a leading journalist in the field, Frank Acland pointed out that it is hard to doubt Rossi because of the seminal paper from Levi et al.

    That is still a remarkable example of being impressed by unimpressive things. We hear alot about the “7 esteemed scientists” responsible for that paper. I have repeated asked about their credentials and on what basis they should be considered esteemed, or even qualified to test the ecat. Of course, most of the authors are complete ciphers. There is, however, Giuseppe Levi himself. His publication record is here:

    I would love to hear an explanation on how this short list of remarkably random papers indicates that Levi is remotely qualified to opine on the ecat. Now if the ecat was a coffee maker, I would withdraw the question.

    • JKW

      September 3, 2013 at 3:42 pm

      Heck, I thought it was about tea, not coffee.

    • JKW

      September 3, 2013 at 6:23 pm

      I just noticed a new link at the fairyland site… clicked on it out of curiosity. It opened a page titled ” E-Cat World Store and Magic, Music, and More “.
      It speaks for itself.

    • GreenWin

      September 4, 2013 at 6:50 pm

      JN – you fail to read Dr. Levi’s CV, which DOES qualify him, certainly more than non-scientists here to opine on E-Cat, and E-CatHT.

      His work with the space station AMS experiment seems reasonable:

      Levi’s contribution to the ZEUS detector is also reasonable experience to opine on new physics:

      • JNewman

        September 4, 2013 at 7:42 pm

        What are you reading in his CV that causes you to say he is qualified to opine on the E-Cat? The fact that he has been involved with LENR since 2011? Is that it? What else makes you say that. He has a degree and has taught some physics classes. That description fits innumerable people (including many of us on this blog, whether you choose to believe it or not.)

        But in any case, since you are quite satisfied with the qualifications of the “7 esteemed scientists”, how about sharing them with us? I mean the other guys besides Levi.

        • GreenWin

          September 5, 2013 at 2:33 am

          JN I will not do your homework for you. Do it yourself. Or better, give up the ad hom attacks. It is unbecoming.

          • JNewman

            September 5, 2013 at 3:51 am

            What ad hominem attacks? I haven’t attacked these guys. I have simply asked for their bona fides. If there are any criticisms, they are aimed at you. You (and others) have called the 7 authors of the ecat paper “eminent scientists” and have cited their supposed expertise as evidence for the validity of the ecat. So I am asking YOU how you know these folks are experts? What is their experience and training that gives you this impression? I have done my homework and have concluded that these people are either inappropriate for the task (like Levi), or essentially invisible men with no public record to be found. If you know otherwise, please enlighten us. Otherwise, if you won’t answer the question, then, as usual, you are simply making stuff up to support your delusions.

  23. JKW

    September 3, 2013 at 4:12 pm

    JNewman, there is a more fundamental question.
    Sometime lat year Rossi has withdrawn his claim that E-cat OU machine has anything to do with nuclear fusion. And it is the “Rossi effec”t now.
    At the same time he uses e=mc^2 equation to explain how much Nickel is comsumed in his contraption. So it’s a non nuclear reaction which annihilates mass to produce energy, with copper as a negligible side product, all within well established science.
    WTF is it then?
    I feel sorry for Focardi’s family. They should sue the son of a b* for his last shoelace.

    • JKW

      September 3, 2013 at 4:24 pm

      I just had an uncomfortable thought – what if Rossi wears moccasins only.

    • JNewman

      September 3, 2013 at 4:31 pm

      It is pretty clear from the events of the past several months that the faithful no longer require any conceptual consistency in anything related to this whole business. The hotcat doesn’t need to resemble any previous description of an LENR reactor in any way. The essential features of the phenomenon can be whatever you want. Is the Rossi Effect LENR? Who knows. Believers don’t even have a coherent description of what constitutes LENR. If you challenge that, they say it is different because it is LENR+, or cold fusion, or now, the Rossi Effect.

      I got interested in this business in the first place because at first blush, it seemed like there could possibly be something real going on. Over time, that has become increasingly preposterous.

      The only thing that keeps this farce interesting at all is the fact that somehow, for some reason, people still believe it. Amazing!

      • Dale G. Basgall

        September 3, 2013 at 5:35 pm

        J your comment – “The only thing that keeps this farce interesting at all is the fact that somehow, for some reason, people still believe it. Amazing!” reminds me of Cinderella.

        Wow what a thought to keep in mind and think someday, Cinderella will show up on a Friday night and stay till Monday, wow. I keep hoping!!!

        • JKW

          September 3, 2013 at 5:55 pm

          Nice dream, but the shoe won’t fit.
          Stay thirsty, my friend.

  24. Dale G. Basgall

    September 4, 2013 at 4:46 pm

    Posts have been made regarding “it is dead”. What is dead? The information flow from Rossi or Defkalion or any of the other products claiming over unity?

    LENR? I notice for sure that the posts are lingering and “it” seems to be lagging however, comments regarding what those posters feel is dead and what specifically does it mean in the scenario would be read.

    • JNewman

      September 4, 2013 at 5:55 pm

      Nothing is any more dead than before. We are just in another quiet period. No doubt, one of these days Rossi will announce yet another completely unsubstantiated incredible breakthrough that will obsolete all his previous completely unsubstantiated incredible breakthroughs. Then the blogs will get busy again for a while.

    • R Hopeful

      September 4, 2013 at 6:04 pm

      For me it is dead because claims about scaled up LENR seem to be unsubstantiated.

      In other forums I see some “how wonderful will it be” messages, and a lot of “thinking” about how LENR works.

      But the credible people who are making it work produce only lab experiments. DGT and Rossi are not credible, Brillouin has not shown any verifiable results. Who else is out there?

      I’m missing something? And no, the worldwide conspiracy to suppress information does not count.

      • Al Potenza

        September 4, 2013 at 6:15 pm

        “DGT and Rossi are not credible, Brillouin has not shown any verifiable results. Who else is out there?”

        You may want to include Professor George Miley. He claimed hundreds of watts sustained power from some version of LENR, I forget which. But he delivered a questionable experiment, never replicated independently, in which the claim was reduced to 8 watts for minutes. Typical.

        If the Steorn magnetic motor scam is any indicator, the quiet periods get longer and the vast new claims get less and less supported by bad experiments. That’s because, by that time, even the believers know what’s needed to do a proper test… because the skeptics have been yelling it in their ears for years… and because no independent verification have taken place, no sales have been consummated, and no main line press show any interest any more.

        That’s where Defkalion, Rossi, Brillouin and Miley are headed. They all may show another spark or two of claims but I doubt it will amount to much.

        It will be interesting to see what Elforsk and the other Swedes (was it Hydrofusion?) will have to say for themselves when no six month Rossi test takes place or if it does, it’s as bad as the tests done so far in his lab.

        And, I’d love to be a fly on the wall when Levi talks to Rossi about the ecat. Either he’s in on the true story or else he must be infinitely disappointed by now. Oh well… I hope we see a bit more entertainment from those people.

        • JNewman

          September 4, 2013 at 6:24 pm

          Speaking of Levi, I still don’t understand how he fits into all of this. The guy has published papers on making coffee, automobile traffic patterns, and cosmic ray detectors. How does he end up the primary expert testing a purported nuclear reactor?

          • Thicket

            September 4, 2013 at 10:00 pm

            When you’ve seen a number of pseudoscience scams, the roles people play are similar. It’s the names that change.

            Giuseppe Levi reminds me of Dr. Peter Jansson of Rowan University. Jansson is a huge supporter of Blacklight Power’s bogus hydrino claims.

            Jansson worked for Connectiv, a major power utility. He single-handedly authorized millions to finance BLP. Connectiv was not impressed and fired him. Jansson remade himself and became an academic. He was (maybe still is) the head of Rowan University’s Chemical Engineering Dept.

            Rowan University produced several positive studies on anomalous heat from supposed hydrino experiments. The work was funded by Blacklight Power.

            How do academics get suckered into flagrant scams? I don’t know. It may be start off as overconfidence and having no ability to spot a smooth-talking credible con-man. It grows into stubborness and the inability to admit mistakes.

            I know that some folks think that Levi is part of the Rossi scam. I disagree. I’ve seen too many people like him. He’s simply a fool that got taken in.

          • CuriousChris

            September 5, 2013 at 1:14 am

            As you know I am one of those that believes Levi is in on the scam. Either that or incredibly gullible.

            So gullible that I doubt it could be so. I don’t think he can be *that* gullible.

            He has to have seen the criticism’s so either he is turning a blind eye, which is as good as being in on it or he is in on it.

            I have never seen him defend himself from the criticisms either. Perhaps I just missed that (or have forgotten, I read so much) But you have to wonder why he does not respond to the critics.

  25. GreenWin

    September 4, 2013 at 6:52 pm

    Dear… you boys get so SOUR and negative when I’m not around. JN, see my post regarding Prof. Levi September 4, 2013 at 6:50 pm.

    And chill fellas. Life’s too short for this level angst.

    • Al Potenza

      September 4, 2013 at 9:39 pm

      Ah yes. The post in which you failed to respond to JNewman’s answer. Say again why Levi is qualified to judge and test Rossi’s collection of plumber’s surplus junk parts? And the qualification of the other seven blind mice?

    • GreenWin

      September 4, 2013 at 11:10 pm

      I’m sure it must be extremely frustrating to claim an education but be unable to demonstrate the claim. Only one poster here has named his alma mater – not that it matters except to provide a modicum of reason to consider his posts.

      Apart from that, it is surely vexing to skeps to hear of the broad interest in Rossi’s E-Cat amidst the Swedish energy industry and Electricity Council:

      Svenska Kraftnät
      Bergen Energi
      Vattenfall AB
      E.ON Energy Trading
      Energi Försäljning Sverige
      Nord Pool Spot
      Holmen AB

      All have funded some part of the Elforsk-Levi study and the follow up E-Cat study in progress. If my job was LENR denialist, I would be discouraged by so many silly companies giving succor to Rossi’s kooky invention.

      Discouraged, frustrated, unable to prove my qualifications – I might be inclined to throw in the towel. But that’s a pragmatic choice – not an assignment. 🙂

      • R Hopeful

        September 4, 2013 at 11:27 pm

        GreenWin, I for one would be glad to learn that reputable organizations are testing the e-Cat viability -there are too many characters with doubtful background. Which sources confirm that those companies are involved?

  26. GreenWin

    September 5, 2013 at 12:24 am

    Fission Nukes Hit Ice Wall

    Back to something we can all agree on – the catastrophic meltdown at Fukushima and the new Disney-on-Ice approach to build a 1km “ice wall.” A Hail Mary attempt to contain thousands tons of radioactive contaminated water.

    Pitiful? Yes. Destined to fail like hot fusion? Yes. Is there a better way??

    According to Swedish power industry consortium Elforsk and the fifteen scientists, engineers, and technicians who contributed to the Levi-E-CatHT report… there is.

    “Computed volumetric and gravimetric energy densities were found to be far above those of any known chemical source. Even by the most conservative assumptions as to the errors in the
    measurements, the result is still one order of magnitude greater than conventional energy sources.”

    • CuriousChris

      September 5, 2013 at 3:39 am

      “A Hail Mary attempt”

      Actually if one did proper research one would find that the ice wall approach is tried and proven. It is self repairing and by far better than other containment systems.

      As far as power consumption goes they estimate 100,000KW per annum. About the consumption of 10 western homes. Even if out by 100% its still not a great deal.

      Having said that. The situation is not an acceptable one.

      Its a shame the rest of your post is devoid of fact. Somewhat like the first part of your post.

      • JNewman

        September 5, 2013 at 5:02 am

        Power consumption of 100,000 kW per annum? What does that mean? Do you mean to say 100,000 kWh energy consumption per annum?

      • GreenWin

        September 5, 2013 at 6:13 am

        Had you watched the PBS link you would’ve learned that an ice wall has never been used at this scale, and is “an experiment.” Disney on Ice has far greater experience in making ice than thoroughly incompetent Tepco.

        Things in old energy seem to be circling the drain these days. Senate has suspended ITER funding; Ernie’s DOE contracts with negligent and criminal organizations are under investigation; Japan’s corruption-riddled Tepco has been nationalized;

        Fukushima radiation escalates, now worse than Chernobyl; revered journal Nature says the US grid is on the brink of collapse; utility asset value has plunged; Korea has arrested dozens of corrupt nuke operators; DERs eat into ratepayer revenues…

        It’s like someone lifted the veil on the energy sector – and what’s beneath is damned ugly. Maybe a frozen wall will save ’em – like it did in East Berlin.

        • CuriousChris

          September 5, 2013 at 2:16 pm

          Ice walls as a water barrier are well tried and tested. They are often used in construction and have been used successfully since ’98 to contain radioactive material. Yes this will be the biggest so far and I am sure there will be plenty of lessons learn’t But it is not experimental. The most important thing is if the wall cracks (due to an earthquake perhaps) the ingressing groundwater freezes and seals the leak. no damage done.

          And the wall is to keep water out not in.

          I didn’t watch the PBS piece. I assume like most things you quote it is suitably biased. No rather than do that I did the research myself. Which I had already done a few days ago. so your post was old news to me.

          Sorry JNewman for misquoting the power consumption the Oak Ridge containment wall uses 100,000KWH of energy annually. not the proposed fukishima one. so I am only out by a factor of 250 🙁

  27. Thicket

    September 5, 2013 at 1:38 pm

    More hand waving by Rossi.

    Andrea Rossi
    September 4th, 2013 at 6:30 PM

    Frank Acland:
    As we said, a 6 months long validation test had to be made, and I repeated that validation of the E-Cat is in course. As always, I will not give any specific information regarding the validation test in course, with exception of the fact that this test will last more than 6 months. The results will be published after the test will have been completed, whatever the results, positive or negative.
    I do not know where the publication will be made, because it does not depend on me. Also this long run test is being performed by an indipendent commettee, financed by institutions totally indipendent from us. Obviously the location in which the test is in course will be disclosed in the publication that will be made. I can only say that it is in the USA factory of a Customer. The E-Cats under test have been manufactured completely in the USA, in the factory of the US Manufacturer, indipendently from me: therefore also the manufacturing has been made by an indipendent- from- me party.
    Warm Regards,

    Believers think that this means that the 6 month test has started. Rossi doesn’t say that. In fact, he says something vague. The validation test is ‘in course’, whatever that means.

    He’s also moved the goalposts. The test is now to take longer than six months. He doesn’t say how long. 12 months? 24 months? 12 years? Forever?

    He’s also washed himself of responsibility for the validation test. It’s being done by a third party. He doesn’t know where or when the results will be published. The test is being financed by others. The eCats were manufactured by others.

    Rossi continues to extract himself from his past lies. The scam goes on.

  28. Tony Slapikas

    September 5, 2013 at 3:51 pm


    What a load of BS. We’re now well into the classic scam/delusional-being mode with the constant time stretching.

    The test is taking place in the facility of the US customer? Baloney. Or Bologna, if you prefer. Anybody who still believes that this fraudster has anything is beyond help.


  29. BigWillyJohnson

    September 5, 2013 at 5:28 pm

    Because Rossi is the only salvation this planet has from evil Nuke and super dangerous disaster Fukishima with a death toll at zero so far, (dont worry, once the shit that is being suppressed is released, then you will see it is really really really dangerous)

    That is a interesting notion to ponder. The world is on the brink of collapse due to evil oil, nuke and pavement oligarchs, and the ONLY chance we have is….Scammer turd Rossi.

    The truth is probably closer to that no real person actually believes he has anything. How could they? “Derp, im a wishful thinking person and my life will only be complete when woo woo free energy crap is finally vindicated!”

    Happy Thursday

    PS Rossi and DFGT are scammers or suppressionistas. They are keeping perpetual motion from flourishing and most likely aiding big pharma who is suppressing homeopathy.

    • GreenWin

      September 5, 2013 at 6:11 pm

      Good Morning Willy. Happy Thursday to you (and friends?) also. 🙂 I dunno about big pharma and homeopathy – why would a medical monopoly try to kill competition?? But here is a good laugh to help make the day fun and productive:

      Who says constructive criticism cannot be joyful??

  30. Al Potenza

    September 5, 2013 at 5:56 pm

    “I’m sure it must be extremely frustrating to claim an education but be unable to demonstrate the claim. Only one poster here has named his alma mater – not that it matters except to provide a modicum of reason to consider his posts.”

    Very few if any here are claiming expertise, therefore their academic qualifications are irrelevant. If you want to argue with their facts, have at it. Except you seem not to be able to do that, GW.

    “Apart from that, it is surely vexing to skeps to hear of the broad interest in Rossi’s E-Cat amidst the Swedish energy industry and Electricity Council”

    I know of no “broad interest”. Rather, Elforsk apparently did some modest funding to assist Levi and the Swedish blind mice. Anyone else participate, GW? If so how? And how do you know?

    It’s not “vexing”. It’s a bit puzzling and it suggests they have not done their homework and do not know about Rossi’s prior two flaming scams and his unwillingness to let the collection of plumber surplus junk parts he calls ecats to be tested properly.

    “Svenska Kraftnät
    Bergen Energi
    Vattenfall AB
    E.ON Energy Trading
    Energi Försäljning Sverige
    Nord Pool Spot
    Holmen AB

    Never heard of any of those. And we know they are paying for Rossi-crap how? Because you say so? I didn’t even see Rossi claim it! I don’t suppose that there is any evidence, is there?

    “If my job was LENR denialist, I would be discouraged by so many silly companies giving succor to Rossi’s kooky invention.”

    Nonsense, as usual, from GW. If more “silly” companies paid attention to Rossi, his apparent scamming would be debunked a lot faster. Of course, Rossi always acts so as to strongly discourage any serious attention from any serious source, else, he’d have had proper “indipendent” testing already (without outsorching). But far from wanting to discourage proper testing, I (and many others including now Josephson) have been asking Rossi to get it done for YEARS.

    “Discouraged, frustrated, unable to prove my qualifications – I might be inclined to throw in the towel. But that’s a pragmatic choice – not an assignment. :)”

    You miss the point, as usual. It’s not up to skeptics to prove qualifications, it’s up to Rossi to provide a single proper independent test and he has not done so even though his silly kludge has supposedly heated a factory as far back as 2009… or was it 2007? I forget which lie of his is current.

  31. GreenWin

    September 5, 2013 at 5:59 pm

    Typical of skeptopaths, conclusions are drawn by avoiding data… witnessed by comments above. Granted it is uncomfortable to face data that illuminates extreme prejudice and conservatism. This results in the “Huizenga Syndrome” – an affliction of blind denialism.

    Chernobyl: Consequences of the Catastrophe for People and the Environment – published by the New York Academy of Sciences.


    Russian biologist Dr. Alexey Yablokov, former environmental advisor to the Russian president;

    Dr. Alexey Nesterenko, a biologist and ecologist in Belarus; and

    Dr.Vassili Nesterenko, a physicist and at the time of the accident director of the Institute of Nuclear Energy of the National Academy of Sciences of Belarus.

    Its editor is Dr. Janette Sherman, a physician and toxicologist long involved in studying the health impacts of radioactivity.

    “It concludes that based on records now available, some 985,000 people died, mainly of cancer, as a result of the Chernobyl accident. That is between when the accident occurred in 1986 and 2004. More deaths, it projects, will follow.”

    • Al Potenza

      September 5, 2013 at 6:46 pm

      GW: Totally tangential and irrelevant response. The question was about how you know the companies you named actually ever tested, much less saw, anything made by Rossi. You can’t answer that so you blather on about Chernobyl which has absolutely nothing (zip, nada) to do with the issue.

      That speaks for how little you know or understand about the nonsense Rossi is spouting.

  32. Dale G. Basgall

    September 5, 2013 at 6:32 pm

    Regarding Rossi it was apparent that at the onset of his public claims and show that he was not following the path of a true inventor. A true inventor does not offer for sale a conception, which the Rossi E-Cat has only been that. A conception of a self proclaimed inventor. In fact Rossi, how can you claim to be an inventor without a patent. Trying doesn’t count and the road to hell is paved with good intent.

    Anyway there has never been an application I have seen written by Rossi that had a % of patentable value. That includes his cracker jack patents issued to him which have proven worthless economically viewed.

    So from now on the simple scam test is a working model of what an inventor claims, nothing else to say. Working can be determined by the results and is easy for anyone to tell, not only the ” ” higher intelligent beings that can recite their graduation receipt #’s, but the logical normal human beings that work every day and expect to use something that actually does something and is available in the 3D form.

    Is this what the higher educated give us? An ability to convince based on perception. I don’t need a doctor degree to feel heat from whatever source. I also don’t need any education to see what we call here ” how lee “, not spelled like that but doesn’t matter it means in Hawaiian “without breadth”.

    Rossi is a perfect example of a white person without breadth, claiming all kind but with no results apparent to anyone. How smart does anyone have to be to see that, not much and someone walking with a few short of a 52 card deck upstairs could be offended by people who’s lips are the only obvious results from their claims.

    This is what’s for sure, we as a civilization have outgrown our ability to stabilize things. Things are what everyone here is writing about, from scams to disasters.

    Having less people who have the ability to care and more people making it harder to for those few. Rossi didn’t help us at all making us think he is nothing but an airbag of deceit. He did it we didn’t, and I think a boycott on anything he produces should be in order but gee then what about all the good electricity he can produce if and when he ever makes anything.

    Ask any physicist or math expert and if you calculate the area required to grow food and support the majority and compare it to the areas we now have available and the amount of eaters they will tell you someone has to go or we just won’t be able to survive as we are now. Any way you look at it our lives and world are diminishing in the ability to provide any type of clean living for future generations of humans.

    The point is that it is the Rossi types that have gotten us in this shape by confusing others and does anyone feel that what they care about can be rectified by their own workings in this day and age of control. I am feeling lucky just to be an observer and know for sure my voice doesn’t count at all in the big picture as ours do not count in producing what Rossi had claimed.

    If Rossi ever comes up with the Hot Cat it will most likely be installed into a computer, that’s the only way millions can be manufactured for pennies.

    • Al Potenza

      September 5, 2013 at 6:50 pm

      “Regarding Rossi it was apparent that at the onset of his public claims and show that he was not following the path of a true inventor.”

      Correct, Dale. Rossi is following the path of classical investment and distributor scammers like Carl Tilley, Dennis Lee (both now convicted felons) and Steorn (now burning through the very last Euros of their original 21 million investment).

      Most scammers have no real end game. Some get caught and go to jail. Others just fade away because nobody has the energy and time to take them to court.

      I don’t understand much of the rest you wrote, Dale. For example, what does this weirdness mean?

      “Rossi is a perfect example of a white person without breadth,…”

      • Dale G. Basgall

        September 6, 2013 at 6:24 am

        Al that means that all the talking Rossi has done is without any results. He is considered a “how lee” in Hawaii Hana style. We do not entertain crap that does not advance into reality. He has spoken and the hot air is the only obvious results from his crap.

        Normally visitors come here and say wow I love this environment I am going to move here, we say oh great another claimer that is full of hot air and of no value other than heating up the environment with their wishes. They are crap to us and are bullshit artists.

        At a million an acre you can really tell the dreamers, they all want a piece of paradise.

        These are ” how lees ” people that are the fake wanabees. Flapping their non meritable chops like birds chirping and Rossi claiming.

        A nice barbeque is in light, they are invited to be the main course here. White people are scam artists. Name any known scam artist and I bet they are white trash.

  33. GreenWin

    September 5, 2013 at 7:44 pm

    @Willy Big,

    since we share an appreciation of the U.S. Navy for several reasons I thought to suggest a hypothetical. Let’s suppose that our friends at Naval Research and other programs, were to have hold of the E-CatHT technology. In fact suppose they had several iterations from a “Model A” rev, to a “Model X” high performance rev.

    Now, suppose in concert with an organization like the Center for Strategic & International Studies, and former Chief of Naval Operations Admiral Gary Roughead, a Humanitarian Assistance Program was developed. Built specifically around food, water, global health and HIV/AIDS policy.

    And suppose a “Model A-D” E-Cat/LENR unit were constructed to provide multistage flash thermal evaporation desalination – to produce fresh water in service of combating disease. Installed somewhere at a coastal community (India, Africa?) to demonstrate efficacy of not only technology, but humanitarian actions by U.S. military.

    Most here are not trained in public relations. However, should you grasp the power of public policy given the supprt of media and opinion makers, this is a significant WIN for Navy and global perception of U.S. military.

    Just something more constructive to comment about than Dr. Levi’s professional experience, (and Al’s whining). Or not. 🙂

    • Al Potenza

      September 5, 2013 at 7:56 pm

      Oh, you’re not thinking far enough out in the future. Let’s suppose our friends in the Air Force had a collection of my patented and top secret pink, invisible flying unicorns, the ones with the surgically sharpened horn. Then they could seek out Bashar el Assad and assassinate him so easily that nobody could possibly stop them.

      Now THAT is REALLY constructive and it would be one hell of a WIN. Cruise missiles? Poor foundamentals. Not properly outsorched or indipendently tested.

    • BigWillyJohnson

      September 5, 2013 at 10:25 pm


      Thanks for the comments. Well it would be just darn tootin great if the Navy had those things I agree.

      Here is my own “just suppose”

      Suppose the e-cat is not a big pile of steaming rat shit of a scam. I guess even if it did work it would quickly get suppressed by the oligarchs.


      • GreenWin

        September 6, 2013 at 3:47 am

        Aww, Willy… Even the oligarchs can be redeemed. Or put to zzzzzleep.

  34. Tony2

    September 5, 2013 at 9:35 pm

    These recent posts lead one to believe that AR doesn’t even know if he has anything. It’s too soon to speculate on just what the results of “testing” and “R&D” will be? I thought we had the results from a distinguished panel of indipendent testers that removed all doubt from what the results of an ecat test would show?


    Andrea Rossi
    September 5th, 2013 at 10:01 AM
    Frank Acland:
    You must put a distinction between the third party indipendent tests ( that are totally indipendent from our commercial strategy) and the tests related to our internal R&D. I can speak only for our internal R&D, about which,as I said, the uses and operation of the E-Cats remain in the development phase. We are utilizing a number of controls and testing a variety of uses, this is a very rigorous process, made by expert scientists. It is simply too soon to speculate on what the results of our work will be. I remain confident in our work and our team.
    Warm Regards,

    • CuriousChris

      September 6, 2013 at 12:27 am

      yes Tony as others have speculated Rossi seems to be going into wind down phase. he is distancing himself from all his previous claims. He actually started it a while back when he he said he was no longer running Leonardo corp.

      My guess is soon enough he will say he has turned over all technology to some invisible company and is moving to a new phase in his life.

      He will then pop up with a new scam and start it all over again.

  35. BigWillyJohnson

    September 5, 2013 at 10:27 pm

    One more thing GW,

    Even if we stipulate the E-cat is real as real.

    Still a reasonable question is “who the hell are these guys who tested it besides Levi?”


    • JNewman

      September 6, 2013 at 3:22 am

      I have noticed that when true believers are confronted with a real “put up or shut up” question (like the identities of Levi’s co-authors, or the defining characteristics of LENR, or pretty much anything else that they base their opinions on), they shut up. Or, possibly in the case of GW, they change the subject entirely.

      • GreenWin

        September 6, 2013 at 3:45 am

        To the contrary, like any competent mentor, we send the student off to do their own homework. Laziness will not be tolerated gentlemen.

        • JNewman

          September 6, 2013 at 4:33 am

          Sorry, but you are all bluster and no content.

          I’ve been waiting for 2 years to hear from somebody who can actually make a case for any of this being real, but you aren’t that person. Like the others, you have nothing.

          • GreenWin

            September 6, 2013 at 5:52 pm

            One need have “nothing” in your case JN as cognitive dissonance transforms data and content to “nothing” you agree with. However, some proclamations made here echo real scientists, e.g.:

            “It’s utter bilge. I don’t think anybody will ever put up enough money to do such a thing… What good would it do us? If we spent the same amount of money on preparing first-class astronomical equipment we would learn much more about the universe… It is all rather rot. Space travel is utter bilge.” Richard van der Riet Wooley-
            Astronomer Royal, Fellow of the Royal Society, Gold Medal of the Royal Astronomical Society, 1956,

            Woolley’s protestations came just one year prior to the launch of Sputnik, five years before launch of the Apollo Program, and thirteen years before the first landing on the moon.

        • CuriousChris

          September 6, 2013 at 9:53 am

          Ha Laziness.

          What a hypocrite!

          Start doing some real research. Its your laziness plus wishful thinking that makes you say the silly stuff you do and believe the crap you believe.

          With just a little effort you’ll find you can learn stuff too.

  36. Andy Kumar

    September 6, 2013 at 2:04 am


    I was just looking thru last few days posts. GW is a lost cause. I thought he could be redeemed with some friendly persuasion. But now, I seriously doubt it.

    He is intoxicated by the exuberance of his own verbosity!


  37. JKW

    September 6, 2013 at 2:56 am

    I think that Rossi should take a phased approach. Two phases are enough to bring back some of his credibility.. Phase #1 is to learn the correct spelling of the word “independent”. Might take a month or two.
    Phase two would be commanding the use of the word “committee”. There are tools out there that might help him. They are slightly less complicated than his breaking technology.
    I understand the language barrier, because I’m an English as A Third Language speaker myself, but it is just bull crap what the man writes.

    • Jordi Heguilor

      September 6, 2013 at 3:41 am

      I think that Rossi is pulling Al’s leg now. After I posted that his “character” included obvious misspellings, now he posts FOUR “indipendents” in one post.

      And the funny thing is that the Believers see the misspellings as “proof” that he’s a REALLY WORLD CHANGING ITALIAN EDISON.

  38. GreenWin

    September 6, 2013 at 3:39 am

    Applying the tools of cognitive pattern recognition to the above hyperbolic posts, confirms the expansion of LENR research and development beyond that of the Italians, DARPA, DTRA, academic theoreticians, NASA, ABC Agencies, and private sector.

    All very good news for humanitarian applications of LENR/cold fusion. The Humanitarian Assistance Program developed with CSIS, key Navy personnel, and private/public sector funding will go far to uplift U.S. military image worldwide. Not to mention the huge benefit to Navy/military recruiting programs.

    It all appears to gel at just the right moment as the end of tarnished nuclear industry is imminent:

    “Washington, D.C.— Even before the disaster in Fukushima, the world’s nuclear industry was in clear decline, according to a new report from the Worldwatch Institute. The report, which Worldwatch commissioned months before the Fukushima crisis began, paints a bleak picture of an aging [nuclear] industry unable to keep pace with its renewable energy competitors.”

    In some small way, even the skeptopaths here contribute to the LENR renaissance. For that we are grateful.

    • Andy Kumar

      September 6, 2013 at 7:47 am


      A rhetorical delight.


      • GreenWin

        September 6, 2013 at 12:19 pm

        Andy, thank you! The First Earl of Beaconsfield’s remark IS an ironic delight. The Earl, Richard M. Nixon’s personal role model, fancied himself a wordsmith:

        “Nurture your minds with great thoughts. To believe in the heroic makes heroes.”

        I shall hunt down a copy of “The Yale Book of Quotations” and have you to thank for it.

    • JKW

      September 6, 2013 at 9:58 am

      GreenWin, who is “we”? Drinking much?

  39. RonB

    September 6, 2013 at 3:18 pm

    We are utilizing a number of controls and testing a variety of uses, this is a very rigorous process, made by expert scientists.

    Oh, I think I see what he means. It would seem that there’s testing to see the actual COP of the machine and there is R&D going on that includes “application testing”. I suppose that’s when they actually hook up a load to the e-cat and put it through its paces.
    It sounds logical if true.

    • JNewman

      September 6, 2013 at 4:23 pm

      I thought an ecat heated a factory for a year. I thought a military customer has been using one for quite a while. I thought there were a dozen 1 MW systems built and being sent to customers. I thought…

      My question is since Rossi has told endless lies about the ecat for years, why does anybody believe anything he says? I guess the “logic” is: yeah, that was all lies and bs. But THIS seems like the truth. Boy, wanting something to be true is an incredibly powerful force.

      • RonB

        September 6, 2013 at 9:02 pm

        I’m thinking that he’s talking about more than a space heater. Possibly something for electricity generation. Might be hard to keep a stable reaction over a varying load.

        I wouldn’t say it sounds any more like the truth than any other thing he’s said.

        WRT heating a factory, the idea I get from watching the Focardi TedX video, these early systems were very crude and inefficient.

        • JNewman

          September 6, 2013 at 9:24 pm

          You seem pretty sensible, Ron. I can’t fathom how you can possibly think any of this is for real. But at least you are good-natured about it unlike some of the troupe of angry believers that frequent the blogs.

          • RonB

            September 7, 2013 at 12:37 am


            It seems most probably unreal but then I’ve heard some pretty fantastic stories and found out later that they were real.
            There have been some pretty smart Italians in history, and clever ones too. ; )

  40. Dale G. Basgall

    September 7, 2013 at 5:36 am

    2 + years of learning on this site and a conclusion of the lesson.

    One current and prime example of an inventor who claimed to have a product and offered the right to sales of the completed product to emerge. This inventor did not follow any guidelines as required by patent offices and wrote stories into the patent applications and for that this story examples one sure point.

    There is no moneys or royalties as a payback to any invention claimed that does not receive valid patent claims by the United States Patent & Trademark Office. You can claim to have the world changing invention as the Rossi claims, without an issued United States Patent for your product you will only make yourself busy and then have a job with quite a lot of responsibility teaching others and having employees. If that’s your goal then fine, make a product needed in your immediate surrounding area, sell them and make a living knowing that “if” your idea and product is well accepted some big company will simply make them cheaper and available to more people.

    This story is for the inventor who writes daily on inventions and products.

    The Andrea Rossi Sais Story.

    Andrea Rossi sais that he had what he coined as the e-cat device and the device produced heat at a rate over and above the heat energy developed by electrical power input to the device Rossi said that he had. Every scientist and physicist looked at the Rossi said claims regarding the product and process that allowed the device to operate properly. Science could not explain the process under the conventionally understood Standard Model of physics, and neither could the claimant (Rossi).

    From an inventive point of view Rossi had applied for a patent in Italy, a worthless adventure at best. Nonetheless that application was missing several key issues to holding valid any claims written within the text specification of the patent application. It was apparent that the Italian Patent Office needs money so they take money and your patent is issued it appears. Rossi then applied for a United States Patent and again the text was short of a product. Rossi still said things in a perpetual way that led the non experienced general population to question “is this for real”? Rossi then claimed a patent using a process that is described like a story constructed as a fairytale with pixy dust, magic wands and a self destruct mechanism built in.

    That kind of made up story is one which started out as deceit from Andrea Rossi and directed to affect a general population willing to entertain the possibility of he may be just a nutbar inventor not acting sane but we the interested want you to go on telling things like over unity and so on in a new process that cannot be explained by the conventional Standard Model.

    The lessons here remain fact; any professional in an area that has at minimum 20 years and upward to a specific mental state as to not be able to handle the pressures of “keeping up the pace” established by a younger you, knows certain signs in his professional experiences that the professional with experience has not witnessed ever before. These are the types of Andrea Rossi sais statements that were left vague and deceitful. No patents were issued to him that are worth more than the paper cost to have the text printed on. Nothing has been produced in product form and the disclosures were made public more than 2 years ago.

    If the claimed technology of LENR (Low Energy Nuclear Reaction) can be made to function as a heat source better than the conventional methods then fine it’s great and many new products will be emerging using the method to create the thermal energy. So testing should be ongoing for the refinement of a process and a recipe for duplication of these types of reactions.

    Finally the conclusion that; any invention becomes worthless after the non performance of claims and normally understood statement claims. This is one part of the inventing business that will ruin your reputation with the contacts you have made on the way up the ladder of sales for a product from the invention recipe (Issued Patent). Make sure before you claim to have a new product and invention that you develop one, and you can claim you have a new invention idea to others. The new method should be to share your invention idea with others at a level of no commitment to production date for the product to emerge from your invention idea.

    If you need a product built it will cost money out of pocket, if you build your own product it still costs you money out of pocket. Either way you go the important issue is do not set a delivery date even verbally to others and do not claim you have a product when you in fact don’t.

    • R Hopeful

      September 7, 2013 at 7:47 pm

      Summary: Rossi was (is) selling a product which does not perform.

      Yep, there is no solid evidence that indicates otherwise.

      I really want to be wrong.

    • CuriousChris

      September 11, 2013 at 6:20 am

      I didnt read the whole post so I may add bits as I work through it.

      You are making a mistake with the following… “There is no moneys or royalties as a payback to any invention claimed that does not receive valid patent claims by the United States Patent & Trademark Office.”

      We know Rossi has made substantial funds from the ECat. Roger Green alone has given him 100’s of 1000’s of dollars and if you believe his website has convinced many others to do so. and that is only one of Rossi’s suckered investors. Ok so not the scale of Stoern but impressive enough.

  41. GreenWin

    September 7, 2013 at 1:45 pm

    It’s come to this gents???

    • Ivy Matt

      September 7, 2013 at 4:59 pm

      It’s come to what?

      If you’re referring to Rossimania, that peaked about a couple of years ago. There’s naught left but us chatterers, and even we are finding less and less to chatter about. Shall we move on to Keshe? I hear his spaceship program has entered a new era….

      • Al Potenza

        September 7, 2013 at 6:07 pm

        Keshe does not get as much traction as Rossi. Not many outright product scammers get endorsed by Brian Josephson (though he is indeed flaky about various forms of nonsense). Not many are featured in a Forbes blog… and so on.

        Rossi gets a lot of mileage from his blind mice professors. That he gets a lot of attention from people who should know better and that he probably got a lot of investment money, like Steorn’s scam, is what makes Rossi interesting even now.

    • BigWillyJohnson

      September 7, 2013 at 10:14 pm


      Keshe wont save us from Earnie Munz and the Nukular (pronounced terribly)fat cats.

      Its Rossi or nutin’ friends.

  42. JNewman

    September 7, 2013 at 7:27 pm

    It has been more than 3 months since the indipendent test of the ecat and six weeks since the achievements of Defkalion. I am still trying to get used to the brave new world in which we live. It is almost unrecognizable from the way it used to be.

    • Al Potenza

      September 7, 2013 at 7:56 pm

      “Angus”, who was visiting Vancouver anyway, went by Defkalion’s “World Headquarters” and knocked on their door. No answer on two occasions during business hours. They must be re-arranging their sock drawers. And the place is a small hole in the wall. That’s where we can expect a world-shaking technology to originate?

      And I still want to know. Where are those DOZENS of 10+kW reactors running continuously on thimble-fulls of nickel and wisps of hydrogen? You know — the ones they said in their forum they had in 2011 and again, they presented in ICCF17? The reactors with built in liquid flow calorimetry and 350 degree C coolant? You know… THOSE ONES. Where are they? Surely not in that little lab in Vancouver?

      Angus’ post is on Moletrap forum. If you want to join (no personal info required), try:

      • Shane D.

        September 8, 2013 at 3:02 pm


        Angus said it was a very nice part of town where start-ups tend to congregate. A short distance away is a nice harbor. The entryway is spacious he admits. Nice street view.

        The pictures he shows of the doors mean nothing at all. They are doors and that is all. Yet, you and others -with you leading the charge as usual, over on moletrap make yourselves look silly making a big deal out of them.

        I don’t know what to make of the fact that no one answered when Angus rang the bell during business hours. Maybe they were at the University lab they rent where their hyperion is located. Again though, you and your small circle of skeptics over there make much ado about it to the point of sounding silly.

        Your description of DGTs headquarters as a “hole in the wall” is misleading and your opinion only. Small yes… but then again, I really didn’t expect anything big.

        My take on Angus’ DGT visit is different from moletraps (what a surprise): DGT does indeed have a small office in a nice business section of Vancouver. They aren’t always there. Their office door looks like a door. Brown with a handle on it. Defkalions name is on it. There is another door next to it. No one was there.

        • Al Potenza

          September 8, 2013 at 5:16 pm

          The thing to make is that this is not a company which is changing the world. It is not a company, as they claim, which has the cooperation of 6 of the world’s 10 largest companies (or whatever similar they said), that they are not continuously testing dozens of multi kilowatt reactors with built in liquid flow calorimeter cooling (you would not be able to do that in any small facility including the one they rent from the U). In other words, the conclusion is that Defkalion are most likely consummate liars. They are not well funded. They are not large. They are not changing the world. They are not testing any powerful device.

          After almost three years, it is clear that they have not proven to venture capitalists or other major investors and companies that they have ANYTHING worthwhile. If they did, they would have a huge facility with all the money and opulence (and security) that they might need.

          Meanwhile, they continue to bluster and lie in obscure blogs and small scientific meetings.

          This is most certainly not how the New Fire will be born!

          • Shane D.

            September 8, 2013 at 9:33 pm

            While some of what you say is your opinion, the rest is probably true. Nothing new really. Even most of us believers decided long ago that both Rossi and DGT had something, but not nearly so reliable, and powerful as they wanted us to believe. Definitely they had nothing near market ready as they both have recently admitted as much.

            So they did lie, but why is open to speculation. The patent angle is a good start. Ego and rush to beat each other to market another. Probably also to attract some money types for funding.

            Of course, as Newman often says: if they lied once can you believe them on anything? To that I always answer… there are those demos and test reports. The Ecats safety cert. All the scuttlebutt from insiders. Really, without those we wouldn’t have all these websites debating the issue.

            So yes they lied their arses off. Blustered too. But even with all that we believers still think they have something because of all the other stuff.

          • JNewman

            September 8, 2013 at 10:05 pm

            Of course, none of that “other stuff” is very solid. In fact, most of it is totally sketchy as has been beaten to death around here. But that’s what separates the believers from the skeptics. It’s getting to be time for Rossi to toss a few more twigs on the fire; the embers are really sputtering.

  43. GreenWin

    September 7, 2013 at 10:13 pm

    Since there is little news from the top secret LENR projects underway in top secret locations HERE is some GOOD NEWS for Ernie Moniz’s Department of Energy:

    Nuclear agency violating law at Yucca Mountain in Nevada, Court says

    The Nuclear Regulatory Commission is “flouting the law” by not conducting a licensing review of the proposed Yucca Mountain nuclear waste dump in Nevada, a federal appeals court said Tuesday.

    Unhappily the nuclear industry keeps ripping off its customers and the planet building unsafe nuke power plants having no clue how to fix ’em when they explode or where to put the 70M metric TONS of highly radioactive waste.

    So far, electricity consumers of nuclear power plants have paid $35 billion into a trust fund to use for nuclear fuel disposal, and the delays have triggered another area of litigation that has cost the federal government millions of dollars.,0,7643375.story

    Fortunately, the good guys commercializing LENR/E-Cat validated by a team of 15 indipendent scientists, engineers and technicians have a solution. 🙂

  44. Frank

    September 8, 2013 at 1:07 am

    Fortunately, the good guys commercializing LENR/E-Cat […] have a solution.

    … and this guy has a solution for “neutralizing” Fukushima’s radioactivity
    So, GreenWin, why worry ??? Salvation is here!
    Just read Sterlings Allans website – there are all our saviors listed (Rossi, Keshe, Defkalion …).

  45. Jordi Heguilor

    September 8, 2013 at 3:26 am

    Word-markers of a free-energy scam.

    Soon, almost, allegedly, supposedly, might show, might exhibit, might manufacture, indipendent (hmm… my spell checker flagged that one…), incredible, world-changing, any Tesla comparison, any Wright Brothers comparison, anti-gravity, tachyons, zero (followed by) point (followed by) energy, vortex, seeking, anything Turkish, over-unity (OU), patent-applied, NDA, TBA, TBR (to be revealed), hydroxy, wheel-of-Nature, >100%-efficiency, “several European Universities”, “major Multinational corporations”, cutting-edge, suppression, alchemical, Big Energy, skeptic, robotic…

    • Al Potenza

      September 8, 2013 at 5:11 pm

      Good job! Agree. But you can’t pin it on a country (Turkey). Things looking like fine scams originated from Italy (Rossi), Greece (Defkalion now in Canada), Germany (Schneider), Ireland (Steorn), Australia (Green), and of course, most of all, the good old USA (Dennis Lee, Jeff Otto, Mylow, Sterling Allan who publicizes all the scams, Brillouin, Nanospire and innumerable free energy debacles of the past and present (just read PESN). Also not to forget that the US brought us Madoff (of course a different sort of nasty scam).

    • BigWillyJohnson

      September 8, 2013 at 7:39 pm

      I dont agree. All of the multitude of free energy claims may be complete bumbkis but Rossi is different. How many of the others obtained an SGS certificate?

      • CuriousChris

        September 10, 2013 at 12:30 am

        All scammers try to ‘validate’ their claim in some way or another.

        Take for example terawatt. Their validation was a master stroke.

        They took their device and had it thoroughly tested by a very reputable company. The results exactly matched what they said the results would be.

        This made it look like their claims were valid. In fact they are not, far from it.

        Terawatts validation consisted of testing the torque present on the mechanism. but it was very similar to having the motion of a pendulum certified. Yes it moves to and fro. yes it only requires a small amount of input power to do so. BUT NO it does not produce excess energy

        That last part is left off the ‘validation’.

        On the strength of this fake validation they now have some reputable names on their ‘board’. People who should know better but are fooled by the fake science.

        Don’t be one of the gullible ones. Rossi’s kettle certificate is meaningless. It does nothing to verify his claims.

        This is par for the course for investor fraud.

  46. GreenWin

    September 8, 2013 at 4:04 am

    Hell yeah!! Forget the radioactive water already leaked into the Pacific ocean, at 300 tons/day. There is little doubt TEPCO’s 1km “wall of ice” will solve the problem.

    Except maybe the loss of a major economic sector in Japan:

    Just part of the brave new world in which we live.

    • Dale G. Basgall

      September 8, 2013 at 6:38 am

      Look at the positive side GW, at least they can build two more reactors to power the frozen wall!

  47. GreenWin

    September 8, 2013 at 2:07 pm

    More of the same ought to fix it:

    “In particular, this is the piece that indicates to me that they have found levels detectable-but-difficult-to-explain-without-undue-alarm:”

    “The bit that needs fixing here is our inevitably deadly reliance on nuclear power …and what happens when the same thing happens at Hanford, and any other nuclear power station?”

    Professor and Canada Research Chair in Preventive Medicine and Population Health at University of British Columbia, former President of Physicians for Social Responsibility Dr. Erica Frank

    • Dale G. Basgall

      September 8, 2013 at 10:24 pm

      GW this applies to LENR or Fusion and the statements you are posting are leading me to become aware that you are against nuclear power.

      I use your statement and cut a few words out this time which become the focus of this post.

      “deadly reliance” is vague as to your meaning in the post above, as well as “inevitably”

      Also the “nuclear power”, is well understood however, is this post stating that the world population will “inevitably” become dependent on nuclear power which could be radiated or transmitted into steam.

      This is simply confusing to me as to how something that costs us thousands of more input dollars than any output would ever make with electricity. Why would you want to potentially poison our environment is the question? If we spend one dollar and get a penny back and 99 cents is gone and nothing is observable after words but the poisons, what would compel the general public to spend money in that way?

      A goal should be to pour all money available for energy today into getting this fusion thing going as to save the earth for future generations and at the least make it a possibility. The fusion could offer new ways to clean this place up.

      Denial of these facts that anyone can observe does not point to choices made freely, logically, or thoughtfully but seem more directed to large goals to reach a point. Like doing something because there is a goal to achieve and the goal becomes apparent the more knowledge you gain.

      • GreenWin

        September 9, 2013 at 2:54 am

        Dale, I simply quoted Professor Frank on radiation detected in Pacific seafood. You might want to discuss your differences with the Professor.

        • Dale G. Basgall

          September 9, 2013 at 4:22 pm

          GW I thought those were your words but there is no differences in my posts regarding my opinion, I am simply observing things right now and basing my posts and comments regarding what is written by others here on .

          I work with a nuclear physicist that is experienced in the nuclear industry and has put his time into the National labs at well known facilities. He is on top of this Fukushima disaster and is in the know with his other physicist friends still working in those labs.

          When a nuclear physicist states over and over regarding “there is no safe nuclear energy” and that there has “never” been a penny made in profit for the process in electricity production from the nuclear energy, then a person around them knows here’s an experienced nuclear physicist in the know so how can I contradict those statements from a direct experienced person? The thing is I can’t and neither can anyone else without the knowledge of what is being done with some of the other by products of the reactions.

          I am not here to argue any points, but to voice what I have observed and “if” you or anyone else actually had hands on experience in handling the materials used to produce nuclear power then, I am sure your tone in posts would remain the same in concerns for other life forms it is killing daily.

          How do you or anyone else support the production of nuclear isotopes that have the potential to eliminate almost all life as we know it here on earth? That seems like a Godlike attitude sealing fate for the planet earth.

          In Japans #4 reactor “MOS” there is enough plutonium to take out the entire country of Japan. Now hopefully there will be no news that consists of that particular reactor. This is worse than any other bad news we could receive from TEPCO. I just would like those who support nuclear powered plants to gain some type of actual knowledge regarding what they support. That would be impossible though, people in the know regarding this are kept employed and controlled as to what they talk about regarding nuclear.

          Do some research and actually try to find someone in the know that supports the nuclear power plants and then write about how you view the nuclear energy field.

          Fusion right now seems to be our only true hope for pulling out of all this poison situation regarding fossil fuels, nuclear and so on. Based on the state of affairs around the world it is highly likely people concerned will not have the choices to right the wrongs done in decision making in cleaning this contaminated mess up. I follow your posts regarding Fukushima so I actually though you were a little concerned also about the disaster.

    • Jordi Heguilor

      September 9, 2013 at 12:35 am

      GreenWhine after Hiroshima and Nagasaki: We’re all going to die!

      GreenWhine after Three Mile Island: We’re all going to die!

      GreenWhine after Chernobyl: We’re all going to die!

      GreenWhine after Fukushima: We’re all going to die!

      I mean, GW, how many times are we going to die? How about recognizing that nuclear energy is the best option we have? (I refuse to talk about the ones we DON’T have, like the Ecat.)

      Get yourself a more rational cause, like voting rights for pachyderms, or allowing dolphins to breast-feed in public.

  48. GreenWin

    September 9, 2013 at 2:49 am

    Now, on top of all the bad nuke power news, failing “not-so-smart” grid, wasted tax dollars on hot fusion, phony carbon credit schemes… The Arctic ice cap has grown 60% over the last year??

    I kinda thought maybe the high brows knew what’s up with AGW… but the data says IPCC, Algore, astronomer Hansen and Dave Suzuki got it all WRONG??? What’s this world coming to??

    If the experts keep gettin’ it wrong… maybe the skeps got it right?

    • Shane D.

      September 9, 2013 at 3:20 am

      15 years ago I was one of those “in your face GW (not GreenWin)” types. I read this today and actually thought about you -although I still don’t know your stance on GW (nuclear.. yes I know!), and others here and over on ECW.

      Still think we should strive for a more carbon neutral world, but a lot less obnoxious about it then before.

      Until that perfect energy world exists I’m a big fan of traditional nuclear… at least for about the next three years when LENR kicks into gear.

      Take care.

      • R Hopeful

        September 9, 2013 at 3:06 pm


        Who do you think will make LENR viable? One of the current players?

        • Shane D.

          September 9, 2013 at 4:42 pm

          Rossi or DGT, although there could be a dark horse like that Swede (Pekka Sonnen) who applied for a patent with what sounded like a solid process for reliable LENR+.

          Throw in there also Dr. Mileys LENUCO:

          Of course the US Navy has a process patented they recently filed also, and they could be commercializing that as we speak.

          Then, I forgot… Global Energy Corporation has their GeNie reactor modeled off the Navy patent (GEC=USNRL?), and 1.5 years ago had the Island of Guam accept their proposal to build their reactor free of charge, and sell them the electricity. Although a new governor reneged on the deal, theoretically GEC is already first to market with a LENR product.

          • Jami

            September 9, 2013 at 5:02 pm

            You’re still living in that fancy dream where they actually succeeded in making LENR work at all.

          • JNewman

            September 9, 2013 at 5:39 pm

            Such a unique field of science. Lots of people have a world-changing technology in their hot little hands and not one of them is interested in playing by the rules and proving it. I guess you have to be a special kind of individual to make progress in LENR.

            Unfortunately, the far more plausible explanation is that you have to be a special kind of individual to believe any of these folks.

          • R Hopeful

            September 9, 2013 at 5:55 pm

            Guys, don’t you think there is a chance somebody will figure it out? I guess that is the reason you hang around in this forum.

          • Shane D.

            September 9, 2013 at 6:00 pm

            It is truly a gift JN to be able to believe almost anything.

            Some are blessed with it. Others… well they become pathoskeptics.

          • Jami

            September 9, 2013 at 9:27 pm

            “somebody will figure it out?”

            Figure what out? Sometimes some of you guys are talking about LENR as if there was a sound, scientific theory supporting the idea and all it takes is somebody stumbling across a practical way to bring it about. But there isn’t. Saying “somebody will figure it out” is like saying “somebody will figure out how to make magic” or “somebody will figure out where all the unicorns live… we just haven’t looked hard enough yet”. But in reality there is no reason to suppose that magic or unicorns exist (or LENR).

    • JKW

      September 9, 2013 at 3:49 am

      Now we know where GreenWin gets his education from. What’s next – The National Inquirer?

      • GreenWin

        September 9, 2013 at 1:30 pm

        JK, I think you mean National Enquirer… The Inquirer was the Papal scandal sheet predicting the flat earth apocalypse. 🙂

        • JKW

          September 9, 2013 at 11:50 pm

          Inquirer/enquirer feels pretty much the same to me, but I’m just an English as a Third Language speaker. You sure about the papal thing, though? Wasn’t it about the Inquisitor?

  49. GreenWin

    September 9, 2013 at 3:59 pm

    Eee gad, the ivory towers are trembling. BBC has aired a segment acknowledging panspermia propagation of extraterrestrial life to Earth. Nobel laureate says time crystals are perpetual motion machines. Archeologists in Bosnia unearth pyramids 20 thousand years older than Giza. Darwinian theory lies twitching in the basement of the once-revered Smithsonian Inst.

    “There is a willful determination that the government can get away with it, that they can get away with tricking the masses about the extent of the problem. [Japan’s] former ambassador to Switzerland wrote a letter to the International Olympic Committee, saying that the government lied.

    They blamed TEPCO for the last two years but they haven’t moved to disband the organization.” Alexis Dudden, PhD University Connecticut.

    Heresies. Enough to make conservative denialists leap into shark infested waters! Don’t do it Al, we need the comic relief.

  50. JNewman

    September 9, 2013 at 6:07 pm

    A fascinating way to sort out humanity: either you believe almost anything or you are a pathological skeptic. If that’s the way to see things, it explains alot.

    • GreenWin

      September 9, 2013 at 9:26 pm

      Most of us here tend to disbelieve kooky stuff like conspiracy theories; Kennedy assassination, 9/11 demolition, ET aliens visiting Earth, etc. Disbelief is healthy most of the time. But apparently the research says it is us anti-conspiracy wonks that are not so sharp:

      “… it is the pro-conspiracy commenters who are expressing what is now the conventional wisdom, while the anti-conspiracy commenters are becoming a small, beleaguered minority.”

      I really wanna believe what guv’ment tells us…

      • JNewman

        September 9, 2013 at 9:34 pm

        GW, obviously you sort people into a different two categories. People who believe in LENR and therefore all good things and people who don’t believe in LENR and therefore all the things you oppose. It is even a more unique world view that makes the one espoused by Shane seems pretty normal. It also accounts for the majority of the irrelevant content you flood this website with.

      • BigWillyJohnson

        September 10, 2013 at 12:58 am

        Perhaps close but not entirely true.

        GW know that I am employed by big wind conglomerates and i vehemently and working to suppress the E-cat but I would like to think that if I ran into him in a pub he would would offer to buy me a chilled beer.

        Only thing is i would have to listen to an ear full about my atrocious spelling and conjugation

        • JKW

          September 10, 2013 at 2:09 am

          Your interpunction sucks, too.