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Psst! Wanna Buy Some eCat Juice?

June 10, 2013

Hydro Fusion, the Swedish license holders for Andrea Rossi’s eCat is making an interesting offer to entice a potential Swedish customer to test the water and act as a showcase for the technology. I’m not sure what to think of this. On the one hand it is interesting but I cannot help wonder why such a complicated dance would be required if the device simply worked as advertised. Potential customers could send their own engineers to Rossi to check the system out prior to buying. Why is it so hard?

I put the development under Interesting and Confusing

Wanted: Pilot Customer for ECAT 1 MW plant

10 Jun 2013/in News/by Hydro Fusion is looking for a Pilot Customer for the first ECAT 1 MW Plant to operate in Sweden. The customer will only pay for the energy produced by the ECAT, i.e. Hydro Fusion and Leonardo Corporation will take responsibility for all associated costs including: the plant itself, installation and any transportation costs. In return the Pilot Customer agrees upon

  • Scheduled Installation time by late fall 2013.
  • Hydro Fusion and Leonardo Corporation to use the Pilot Plant as a Showcase where external customers can be introduced to an ECAT 1 MW in operation.

Hydro Fusion is open to any type of heat application given the restriction of a maximum 120 C temperature. The ECAT’s energy specifications are:

  • Heat energy is produced according to specs.
    • Heat energy 1 MW thermal at up to 120 C
    • Heat exchanger from ECAT system to customer heat application.
  • Electricity is consumed according to specs.
    • 250 kWe maximum power consumption
    • 166 kWe average power consumption, i.e. COP=6

Hydro Fusion would like to receive quotations from Pilot Customers on both thermal MWh price and electric MWh price, based on an assumption of 7,000+ operating hours per year. Please specify clearly if your quotes depend on the outdoor temperature.

Pilot Customers, with an interest in this game changing technology, are kindly asked to contact us at info@hydrofusion.com. Please write “Pilot Customer” in the subject of the email.

For more info see, ECAT 1 MW Plant.

[With thanks to Harry Veeder on Vortex]

Posted by on June 10, 2013. Filed under products,Roll-Out,Uncategorized. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

69 Responses to Psst! Wanna Buy Some eCat Juice?

  1. Al Potenza

    June 10, 2013 at 8:22 pm

    Rossi is just buying time, as usual. There is no megawatt plant. What Rossi showed in October 2011 was an electrical heater, powered by a half megawatt diesel generator. He wouldn’t allow anyone a close look at the data or anything else. It was just another scam. There is no evidence that Rossi has a working megawatt plant or anything else that ever worked. Unless you consider the recent “indipendent” report evidence. The report is awful. It proves nothing.

    • psi

      June 11, 2013 at 2:19 pm

      The phrase “there is no evidence” is beginning to take on a new creative urgency, isn’t it?

  2. Curbina

    June 10, 2013 at 8:49 pm

    In this case is usefull to remember that the owners of the hydrofusion.com site are European (except for Italy)licensers of Rossi, and not Rossi himself. This is an interesting development, and tells a tale of an interest in showcasing the economic advantages rather than the technology.

    • John Milstone

      June 10, 2013 at 9:15 pm

      In this case is usefull to remember that the owners of the hydrofusion.com site are European (except for Italy)licensers of Rossi

      That’s wrong.

      TransAltec AG is the German and/or Swiss licensee of Rossi’s gadget.

      It’s worth noting that TransAltec also claims to have a perpetual-motion electric generator that puts the E-Cat to shame. Supposedly you just spin it up, and it generates Megawatts of electric power forever (or at least until the bearings wear out).

      The fact that Rossi teamed up with such an obvious scam company is compelling evidence that he isn’t any more credible.

      • MaxS

        June 11, 2013 at 10:42 am

        John,
        in the view of a true believer promoting a perpetuum mobile isn´t necessarily a problem. A perpetuum mobile is considered by mainstream science as impossible because of conservation of energy (1st law of thermodynamics). However, in the view of a true believer these laws are made by corrupt and incompetent scientists, therefore they are potentially invalid. Adolf Schneider is a hero for them, since he stands against the established science. And in their view the 1st law of thermodynamics may be extendable if you include hypothetic things such as space energy or dark energy to account for additional unknown energy sources. And voila, there is your “perpetuum mobile”.
        On the other hand, strangely in the logic of a true believer, for the e-cat examiners other rules apply: it is excluded a priori that they could be equally corrupt and incompetent as all the other scientists……

        • Jeff K

          June 11, 2013 at 5:18 pm

          ” It turns out that roughly 68% of the Universe is dark energy. Dark matter makes up about 27%. The rest – everything on Earth, everything ever observed with all of our instruments, all normal matter – adds up to less than 5% of the Universe. Come to think of it, maybe it shouldn’t be called “normal” matter at all, since it is such a small fraction of the Universe.

          One explanation for dark energy is that it is a property of space. Albert Einstein was the first person to realize that empty space is not nothing. Space has amazing properties, many of which are just beginning to be understood. ”
          NASA
          Funny in the context of your comment..

          • PersonFromPorlock

            June 12, 2013 at 1:00 am

            I am inclined to think that the primary constituent of ‘dark matter’ is fudge.

          • MaxS

            June 12, 2013 at 9:13 am

            well, sure.
            Not only Einstein may have said that “that empty space is not nothing”. It is also a direct consequence from quantum mechanics, the quantum vacuum zero-point energy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-point_energy
            However, there is no evidence that dark energy or quantum vacuum zero-point energy has any relevance for LENR, I did not imply to suggest this, it is perhaps just an idea from science fiction. But the universe is amazing and many things are not fully understood.

          • Roger Bird

            July 2, 2013 at 7:08 am

            Einstein was not the first person to think that empty space was not nothing. He was certainly one of the earlier believers and certainly the most prominent, but that idea was around for some time as “the Aether” or “the ether”.

      • Roger Bird

        July 2, 2013 at 7:10 am

        John, you have destroyed your credibility so badly with your whoppers that it hardly matters what you have to say. Just saying. I won’t be back here again, so you can read but don’t bother responding.

  3. John Milstone

    June 10, 2013 at 9:27 pm

    Whatever happened to the “non military” customer who supposedly bought a Megawatt E-Cat back in November 2011?

    Rossi claimed that he would release that customer’s name, but then backed out.

    All it takes is one credible, public customer endorsing the E-Cat to eliminate all doubt.

    But after 2.5 years, Rossi still can’t name a real customer.

    Apparently, after the failed “Hot Cat” test for the HydroFusion investors, Rossi is leaving them to hang.

    If HydroFusion actually had a working device, they wouldn’t have to go begging for customers on the Web.

    • MaxS

      June 11, 2013 at 10:45 am

      perhaps Rossi sold it against a delivery time of 18 months ? Clever businessman and stupid customers.

  4. Pimp

    June 10, 2013 at 10:31 pm

    You know, I try to be as nice as I can in argumentation, in most cases, but I’m really bothered by you trying to spin this as being a “complicated dance.” It’s like you are trying to look for a reason to stay in the middle, even if there is no good reason to do so. They are willing to show a public demonstration. Can’t you just be happy for this new development? As time goes on, you’re supposed “healthy skepticism” is starting to look a lot more like intellectual cowardice. Any coward can change his mind when the evidence is so easy-to-see that only a moron would deny it. A truly brave, moral person changes his mind when the evidence is good enough, but not necessarily easy-to-see.

    • CuriousChris

      June 11, 2013 at 1:46 pm

      I think you should read your own argument and then apply it to your own comments.

      On the point of complicated. I agree it is not necessarily overly complicated. its more about hedging. Given their statement if the test doesn’t work they can back out scot free. They have hedged their bet.

      To me it says they are less than confident.

      • Pimp

        June 11, 2013 at 8:39 pm

        There are always problems that could come up. It does not mean that the system does not work. I would be “hedging my bet” if I was in their situation. It does not necessarily mean that I would be less confident of my machine.

        • CuriousChris

          June 12, 2013 at 5:31 am

          “It does not necessarily mean that I would be less confident of my machine.”

          Yes it does. That is what hedging is.

          If you know the machine works you don’t hedge you bet big. so by hedging it shows they are not confident.

          • Pimp

            June 12, 2013 at 6:18 am

            This is just getting silly. CuriousChris, you don’t get to tell me what my own level of confidence is in my own machine. LOL!!!

    • RonB

      June 11, 2013 at 2:12 pm

      Pimp,
      I think you make some good points and in this pit of vipers that’s a brave thing to do! : )

      • Pimp

        June 11, 2013 at 8:13 pm

        Thanks, RonB. I appreciate the support. To slightly elaborate, in light of some of the other comments, I can understand wanting to be cautious, and, in light of that, I can understand not wanting to absolutely believe in Rossi, but if you can’t get yourself to, at least, 80%, or so, in support of Rossi, at this point, then I just don’t think that you have an acceptable opinion. I hate it when a person sits exactly in the dead center and refuses to budge until he is given a super-high level of reasoning and/or evidence, one way or another. Worse, sometimes people like that will pat themselves on the back for being, in their minds, “appropriately skeptical.” In reality, though, these people are intellectual cowards.

    • psi

      June 11, 2013 at 2:22 pm

      One can only agree with this assessment. It’s time for “skeptics” to start being a little less dogmatic.

      • Pimp

        June 11, 2013 at 8:39 pm

        Thanks for the support, psi.

  5. Roger Barker

    June 11, 2013 at 3:44 am

    Well the Rossi circus only gets more bizarre. Why would you even want to do this? If Rossi has a 1MW reactor that really works companies from all over the world would be climbing over each other to buy it.

  6. George Wynns

    June 11, 2013 at 4:14 am

    Paul,

    Thank you again for covering developments on Rossi’s product. Yes, it is taking a lot longer than anyone would have thought, but it is definitely coming along. Personally, I think the offer is fine. It might not be the way that you or I would have done it, but that is up to them, not us. I see that some of the hateful skeptics are still piling it on Mr. Rossi and his remarkable development. I can understand their being skeptical if they want to, but it dismaying to read their hateful vitriol.

    • RonB

      June 11, 2013 at 2:14 pm

      I can understand their being skeptical if they want to, but it dismaying to read their hateful vitriol.

      Amen to that. It makes me question their motives and if you read the “warning” on this site. It allows me to understand them a bit better.

      • CuriousChris

        June 12, 2013 at 5:42 am

        hateful vitriol? Please show me where? Some contempt maybe.

        Most sceptics on here go to a great amount of effort to produce arguments and facts to counter what is essentially plain ignorance. The fact that many believers don’t want to hear can be frustrating so sometimes its a bit hard not respond with contempt, but I have not seen many examples of vitriol that couldn’t be countered tenfold from the believers camp.

        When sceptic says its white they almost always say how to determine its whiteness. Believers tend to ignore such information and continue to cover their ears and chant I can’t hear you. To a person they do not counter with credible arguments. Some attempt to of course and good on them I say. but you still need to be prepared to listen to the counter arguments your own counter arguments produce.

        For example review the steam argument from krivit’s video. Every believer I know says “Well Rossi did cheat there. But that’s the only time”

        How does one respond to such faith based beliefs?

  7. blaze

    June 11, 2013 at 5:33 am

    Rossi is a freaking joke. I can’t believe anyone believes anything that comes out of his mouth. This “Hydro Fusion Ltd” is the shining example of a front company. No real management, no real contact information. A corporation staffed by anonymous people? Yeesh!

    Everything about it just screams SCAM.

    I could definitely be convinced that LENR+ / Cold Fusion is quite possibly real.

    But Rossi? Please. He’s just a psychotic attention whore trying to get people to focus on him.

    Stop feeding the deranged fool, for chrissakes. He’s the reason everyone can DISMISS lenr+, because way too many people associate this clown with the fledgeling science.

    • RonB

      June 11, 2013 at 2:19 pm

      blaze,
      The odds are that you’re completely correct in all that you say based on the old saying “If it sounds too good to be true, it’s probably not true”.
      However, If LENR is true then possibly there’s truth to all that we hear.
      One thing for sure is that it’s a good show! (popcorn for everyone!)

      • CuriousChris

        June 12, 2013 at 5:51 am

        Still if LENR is true and here’s hoping. That does not make Rossi’s (or DGT’s) claims any more believable.

        They claim to have achieved what no-one else has come anywhere near achieving. All without definitive proof.

        Of course the proof is in the sales! except there isn’t any sales to the point we now have a company almost begging. Why they don’t just setup an open demo and invite anyone to come and see it I have no idea. Run it for six months. open the books so people can see what the actual input over a long period of time is.

        Perhaps donate the output heat to a hospital or orphanage.

        If they manage to show a cop of 6 or more over the demo period then it will be proof enough for everybody.

    • psi

      June 11, 2013 at 2:23 pm

      Wow. If you say so, huh?

    • MPB

      June 11, 2013 at 3:20 pm

      Third party…. enough said.

  8. Svein

    June 11, 2013 at 10:33 am

    I see two reasons why it might be difficult to sell this eCat for USD 1.5 million.
    Rossi estimating the price of the home eCat at 10 kW to be $500 in 2015 or 2016, so if we multiply $500 with 100 we get 1 MW for $50 000.
    That is 30 times less than what he is trying to sell it for now. Who will pay 30 times more in 2014, just to get it one or two years sooner?
    The second reason is that it is unproven.

    • John Milstone

      June 11, 2013 at 11:26 am

      There are plenty of organizations that would be happy to pay $1.5 million in order to be first to have this wonderful new technology.

      However, they would insist that it actually worked first. Rossi can’t do that.

      I have the feeling that Hydrofusion might be the dupe here. They bought the rights to the E-Cat based on Rossi’s bogus claims, and now they can’t find any customers as gullible as they were.

      If Rossi really has multiple customers (as he claimed back in November 2011), it should be easy for Hydrofusion to provide solid references to any potential buyer. Any potential customer would be willing to sign a non-disclosure so the identities of the existing customers would be kept secret, and they would have the inside information to make their decision.

      However, non of that is happening. Remember back in January 2012, Rossi claimed that he would install Megawatt E-Cats “for free” with the money safely in escrow until the customer was satisfied. Apparently, no one was willing to take them up on that offer, either.

      I wonder if Rossi has already scammed everyone foolish enough to believe in his scam?

    • RonB

      June 11, 2013 at 2:16 pm

      Svein,
      It might also be that with a “new and improved version” just around the corner, why not just wait?

    • spacegoat

      June 11, 2013 at 2:53 pm

      Maybe this sort of arithmetic is behind an erroneous COP calculation. The October 2011 “ecat demonstration” video appears to show the CF Borat challenged by arithmetic. Maybe the piercing stare of Krivit put him off.

      • RonB

        June 11, 2013 at 3:07 pm

        spacegoat,
        I remember that video. The thing that crossed my mind at that time was how difficult it must be to work in a language that your mother didn’t teach you. If I was at a chalk board speaking Italian and at the same time doing math, I might really look like an idiot.

        • spacegoat

          June 12, 2013 at 12:04 am

          Yes. But its the numbers he what he wrote on the board that were wrong. Numbers are numbers – universal language.

          • RonB

            June 12, 2013 at 2:38 pm

            I guess my point was that he was speaking English at the same time, and if it were me speaking Italian, it would be like patting your head and rubbing your stomach at the same time. It’s easy to get it wrong.

    • Asterix

      June 11, 2013 at 6:37 pm

      I don’t understand why Rossi is trying to peddle the 1MW units when at one point he claimed over a million pre-orders for the Home Cat and a robot plant all set up to manufacture them.

      Trying to make a $1.5M sale or three seems to pale with the prospect of a pre-order for $500M (assuming that the unit price of $500 still holds).

      • Titi

        June 11, 2013 at 9:28 pm

        Rossi can’t sell the home cat because he don’t have the licences. It’s very complicated to obtain licenses (in Europa or anywhere) with a technology that is no proved by science.

        • Asterix

          June 11, 2013 at 11:22 pm

          …but isn’t that the point of most proponents–that the technology has been proven?

          Do we have not an e-cat but a Schroedinger’s cat here? Proven and not proven at the same time?

          • MaxS

            June 12, 2013 at 9:29 am

            Anybody in the believers camp who thinks the technology is “proven”, please give me a reference where the science is explained and confirmed by experimental data.
            Concerning the recent test, energy measurements and COPs do not explain the underlying science.
            The patent and other pseudo-scientific papers of the protagionists don´t explain that either, they are unsubstantiated and contradictory to their later statements.
            Ni-H fusion? Experimental facts are not existent or even contradictory in regard to the e-cat. What else do we have?

        • MaxS

          June 12, 2013 at 9:21 am

          It’s very complicated to obtain licenses (in Europa or anywhere) with a technology that is no proved by science.

          not only complicated, it is impossible, if the technology would be a not well understood nuclear reaction. No authority will give certification for this in Europe.
          Even the SGS certificate for industrial devices was based on the criteria for non nuclear devices (which makes it invalid in the sense of LENR).

  9. Svein

    June 11, 2013 at 11:45 am

    After the third-party report, there is small chance the eCat is just a scam, but how well it will operate is a different question. I hope the first customer is prepared for a lot of visitors and a lot of down time.

    • John Milstone

      June 11, 2013 at 1:16 pm

      After the third-party report, there is small chance the eCat is just a scam,

      Actually, it’s becoming clear that the electrical feed into the E-Cat was (at least) seriously flawed and probably intentionally rigged to fake the results.

      I will be writing up my analysis in the next day or so, but in the previous post here I lay out the basis of this conclusion.

      • Svein

        June 11, 2013 at 1:58 pm

        John,
        I would not waist my time on that. With good reports from Defcalion with even higher COP than Rossi, and a new test of Rossi soon starting with even better equipment, we will soon be informed if something is not right. I thing it is better to use the time to sell of the oil stocks.

        • RonB

          June 11, 2013 at 2:22 pm

          I thing it is better to use the time to sell of the oil stocks.

          LOL

        • John Milstone

          June 11, 2013 at 3:36 pm

          Um, yes, psi.

          I’m basing my analysis of what is in the report, and specifically in the new appendix.

          The appendix, in particular, shows exactly what was wrong with their testing.

          The testers clearly don’t understand power systems, and clearly don’t understand what their test equipment does and does not do.

          Everything in the appendix shows that a fraud by Rossi is the most reasonable explanation of the apparent results.

      • RonB

        June 11, 2013 at 2:33 pm

        I will be writing up my analysis in the next day or so

        And you accuse others for making promises of “sometime in the future”. lol

        So, do you think there will be a 6 month test? Do you think it will be buffoonery?

        • John Milstone

          June 11, 2013 at 3:38 pm

          As I recall, this test was originally supposed to be release in February. I won’t need anywhere near as long.

          If there is a “6 month test” I think it will use the same flawed analysis of this test. If the testers actually try to test for the flaws already uncovered, Rossi won’t allow the test to proceed.

      • Tom Baccei

        June 11, 2013 at 3:32 pm

        Oh gosh how we count the hours til you “analysis” is finally revealed. You and Rossi are Mutt and Jeff, Ying and Yang, negative and positive images of each other. One the consummate clown, buffoon, jokester and carnie barker and the other the prototypical stodgy, self important, pessimistic curmudgeon! Oh, the drama!

        • Thicket

          June 11, 2013 at 4:34 pm

          All we need is the hirsute simian throwing peanuts from the gallery. I think that you are a perfect fit for that role, Tom.

          I think Hydrofusion’s offer is cool. It keeps the fun going.

          • Tom Baccei

            June 12, 2013 at 1:29 am

            Ahhh! At last you’ve got it! I am perfect for that role, and I sit in the gallery marveling at your sincerity. What a spectacle – it is SO, SO calming to watch the true believers do the dance of wisdom! Take a bow, and stand there proudly, basking in the wisdom that is yours, and yours alone! But, … mind the hecklers, and the tomatoes they toss at your pompous visage! The scam skeptic and his pious “analysis”. Bah! Humbug!

  10. hokmah

    June 11, 2013 at 3:56 pm

    So your basically saying that your better than these known and highly respected physicist and engineers. May I ask your for your achievements in the scientific or engineering fields?

    • Thicket

      June 11, 2013 at 4:38 pm

      This is the classic ‘appeal to authority’ fallacious argument.

      If you have the expertise to counter an argument, then do so. If you can’t then you are just a fan cheering on your favorite team.

      • hokmah

        June 11, 2013 at 5:06 pm

        Hmm, that should be for John ( i hit the reply button), anyway John says the testers don’t understand what they are doing. So I ask him for his credentials for saying that, since the testers are obviously experts on their fields.

        I also don’t see these testers as “authorities” but with enough knowledge, experience and achievements in the scientific community for their test results to be well respected.

        • John Milstone

          June 11, 2013 at 7:19 pm

          anyway John says the testers don’t understand what they are doing.

          They claim to have eliminated the possibility of DC current using a meter that cannot measure DC current.

          That is a simple fact. It stands on its own.

          They don’t understand how to use their test equipment. Therefore, their conclusions about the input power are not credible.

          And, since the input power is a major issue with regards to whether this was a valid test or a fake, their conclusions about the entire test are not credible.

  11. Anonymole

    June 11, 2013 at 4:15 pm

    Rossi, two years ago, said “who wants to register to purchase an in-home E-cat?” Hundreds, maybe thousands, if Rossi’s quotes are to be believed, signed up.

    Now we see “what company want’s to register to buy cheap heat from an E-cat plant?”

    Notice neither says “E-cat for sale – come and get ’em.” They both are petitioning for the names and interest level of potential customers. This, like in the first ‘home-cat offering’, so as to present, later, a number they can point to and say, “look! Hundreds of companies want our e-cat plant – it must be real.”

    A smart analyst would be logging all of the steps Rossi has taken along this bizarre and circuitous path in order to write a handbook for the marketing of a fantastic new service or product – real or imagined. In this, Rossi is a master.

    Steps:
    1) Pick a venue that is world changing.
    2) Make sure the venue has had a contentious history,
    3) and yet is obscure and complex enough to be able to continue the mystery and controversy.
    4) Build a website w/ forum to centralize and control the information distribution.
    5) Perform exclusive, infrequent demos.
    6) Go into hiding while you work on version 2.0 of your service/device.
    7) Leak tantalizing bits of progress news about both 1.0 and 2.0 versions.
    8) Misdirect dissent and discord onto skeptics who want to “suppress your world changing offering.”
    9) Raise contention regarding intellectual property rights, patents, provenance, etc.
    10) Announce proof of efficacy of one’s service/product by disassociated parties.
    11) Announce the existence of secret factories, secret partners, secret clients all indications of great things to come.

    Wash. Rinse. Repeat.

    So, what’s next? Version 3.0? Partnership with a government? Threats from threatened industries? False investigations and acquittal by city or country justice departments? Closure of factories due to visionless suppressors? Health problems? Accidents in secret factories? Theft of IP? Injustice of some kind wreaked upon the service/product such that it delays release for another 12 months?

    “Rossi’s Handbook of Hype” – a NY Times best seller.

    • spacegoat

      June 12, 2013 at 12:12 am

      NY Times best sellers:

      Rossi’s Handbook of Hype

      Master Clownery in 30 Days

      Stream of Conscientiousness Blogging

  12. Dale G. Basgall

    June 11, 2013 at 5:13 pm

    From the posts above made mention of selling oil stocks, and the potential of cheap energy from a working e-cat or Mega-Cat.

    Most grid electricity costs ? so I pay 48 cents a watt for mine. Normally around 350 – 500 per month. I can go to Sears and purchase a 7.5kw generator with a warranty for under 1k USD.

    The mega-watt plant takes input energy to fire up and I assume to keep running while tapping out power, hence the spec limitations on the one meg plant as seen on this thread of posts.

    So at 1.5M that’s three times more initial investment than any conventional generating system and it is currently unknown what the costs of the fuel, maintenance and so on will eat up in money as this technology develops.

    There is in fact a phenomena occurring in the LENR studies, many are working on it now. Oil is free, no one manufactured it and it’s a mineral available to us. It’s easier to take what is free and make it more valuable than it will be to re-manufacture a complete energy system producing hot water, for over 1 dollar and 50 cents per watt generated.

    Based on logic and what was written in a post above regarding the cost on a megawatt plant versus individual e-cats adding up to 1 meg in power, still makes a person ponder the investment in making hot water. There are no electrical output connections to any of the cat series generators, so how can one calculate the output of anything in watts prior to finding the efficiency ratio of the LENR reactions in a time scale test.

    Not the goofball tests made, but the test of the product in final production of electrical energy. There is no product sold that has not gone through the simple end user evaluation after using a device.

    This has been clearly a phenomenal adventure with Mr. Rossi and when a person of this type offers for sale a product that is not yet tested or proven to work it creates doubt in many that this LENR is a real viable potential energy generation system.

    • CuriousChris

      June 12, 2013 at 5:59 am

      I hope you are not paying 48c a watt. That’s $480 to cook lunch. 🙂

  13. RonB

    June 11, 2013 at 6:35 pm

    I’d love to buy an ecat that could product electricity. I’d run it on natural gas. The price of NG has dropped 47% in the last year yet the prices for electricity have increased!
    It’s amazing that the cost of electricity varies so much across the USA. More than 2 to 1 and much more in select locations. (Like NYC)

    I for one can’t wait to get “off the grid”.

    • Dale G. Basgall

      June 11, 2013 at 7:45 pm

      Ron here 85-90% of the people are off the grid and on water catchment. Of course it rained 15 inches here in three days. We have had as much as 24″ in one 24 hour period so most are on water catchment and when it doesn’t rain an inch a day then you take no shower.

      That’s not my case I have water and am on the grid but 10 years ago we started a project to develop new energy following Bedini, Bearden, and Meyers and so on, from wackpods to NASA engineers all of which were edging out on the clean energy issue. That is a really great concept no matter what others think of you but working in the fields like mentioned will get you thrown into a standoffish type life. I stayed clean by simply being the mechanic that built the equipment and remain as such on the LENR technology. I make equipment, so as soon as anyone has the answer for the reactions I will surely design devices that use the technology. I see it as unlimited but for now it’s wait for the art to be developed but there are many other aspects to do in the meantime.

      In short there is no vague issue regarding the translation of mechanical energy to electrical energy however many issues remain in efficiency percentages and the largest one here for me is the translation of valuable electrical energy into heat energy and thermally dissipated into a fluid and then reduced yet further into another useable product.

      For LENR this has not been addressed yet, make a fire and burn something but if you don’t want to burn something control means need to be in place and method of directing the thermal energy to the work load are all takeoffs of product efficiency.

      I have found in fact that making useable electricity is far more expensive than the grid power right now no matter what the price.

      Bottom line is food, and when the grid goes down the simple fact you will die if there is no way to preserve your food because many will not have. So having a home DC backup system is a vital product to consider also for the home as well as the energy dependent system like LENR.

      So off the grid means multiple different means to generate your power. There is not one type of green energy that supplies the total demand of the household. Of course if money is not the issue no problem but it’s a matter of survival here. So in 10 years of experimental study and a few hundred thousand spent in experiments and equipment we are still on the grid. That says it all, if there were an easier way, it would be done already. So LENR at best will only be used to “supplement” the already existing grid using fossil fuels presently.

      • Anonymole

        June 11, 2013 at 9:14 pm

        Dale, sounds like a fun environment to work in. Have you heard of George Ure’s http://urbansurvival.com/ ? An off the grid guy with some interesting energy ideas and often radical, perhaps fringe ideals, but fun to read sometimes.

  14. ts

    June 12, 2013 at 2:58 am

    People, please wake up. In my opinion: No Free energy, excess energy, Cold fusion, or LENR device has ever worked in the past, none work now, and none will ever work. All of these claimed effects can be summed up in two words: measurement error. Whenever someone comes out with one of these devices and looks for investment, smart investors demand a test by measurement experts. One of three things happens: 1) the device fails the test and the investment is not made, 2) the inventor backs out of allowing the test at the last minute or destroys the device so the test is not made, or 3) the inventor claims that the failed test was not done properly and looks for different investors.

    This pattern has been continuing for decades and will continue to repeat. It doesn’t matter whether you call it free energy, cold fusion, LENR, or some new name once LENR has worn out it’s welcome.

    3, 5, 10 years down the road, people will still be talking about this stuff. But there will never be any products on the consumer market. Why? Because none of it works, in my opinion. If you don’t agree with my assessment, prove me wrong.

    • Pimp

      June 12, 2013 at 3:33 am

      I’ll pass. I don’t agree with your basic opinions, nor do I agree with how you seem to think that this sort of discussion is supposed to play out.

      • CuriousChris

        June 12, 2013 at 6:03 am

        I have followed free energy claims for several years now.

        ts is on the money. a corollary to #2 is “and the inventor soon comes back with a different device making the same claims”.

  15. BigWillyJohnson

    June 12, 2013 at 9:40 pm

    IF this whole thing was not a scam it would still be ridiculous.

    There is no patent. So I could buy the .470 MW plant. Tear it down and discover what pixie dust makes it run. Patent it then reap all the rewards and take credit.

    And you can be dang sure I wouldn’t give the proceeds to the cancer children. Nay, I would use my newly flowing billions to fund HOT FUSION…DUN DUN DUN!!!! To be extra evil

    • Stephen

      June 12, 2013 at 11:23 pm

      I’m with you. I could be your treacherous henchman. 🙂