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Rossi Sues Wikipedia?

May 31, 2013

From Rossi’s blog:

May 31st, 2013 at 2:53 PM
TO OUR READERS, REGARDING WIKIPEDIA:
I MUST AGAIN GIVE THIS INFORMATION: WIKIPEDIA, AFTER THEY WROTE US ( BY TOM CONOVER) THAT THE PAGE HAD BEEN CORRECTED, TODAY AGAIN I SAW ON WIKIPEDIA THE FALSE INFORMATION THAT THERE IS A SUE PENDING AGAINST ME FOR EVENTS OF MY LIFE OF 20 YEARS AGO, FROM WHICH I HAVE BEEN ACQUITTED. TODAY AGAIN I TRIED TO CORRECT THE FALSE INFORMATION, BUT NOT ONLY THE CORRECTION HAS BEEN DELETED IN FEW SECONDS ( LESS THAN 1 MINUTE), BUT OUR IT GUY HAS BEEN BANNED TO WRITE AGAIN ON WIKIPEDIA. FROM THIS FACT THE CONSEQUENCE IS THAT:
1- I HAVE IRREVOCABLY DECIDED TO SUE WIKIPEDIA FOR LIBELLING. ALL THE MONEY WE WILL OBTAIN AS A REFUND FOR THE DAMAGES THEY HAVE CAUSED, ARE CAUSING AND WILL CAUSE TO US WILL BE GIVEN TO A FAMILY THAT NEEDS IT FOR THE CARE OF A CHILD WHO HAS A CANCER
2- I INVITE EVERYBODY WHO WANTS TO HAVE NOT THE FALSE INFORMATION GIVEN BY WIKIPEDIA, BUT AN INFORMATION ADHERENT TO WHAT REALLY HAPPENED, CAN GO TO
http://WWW.INGANDREAROSSI.COM
I HAVE BEEN ACQUITTED FROM ALL THE ACCUSATIONS FOR WHICH I HAD BEEN ARRESTED IN 1995 ( ARREST THAT CAUSED THE BANKRUPTS OF PETROLDRAGON AND OTHER MY COMPANIES, AFTER AN ASSASSINATION OF MY CHARACTER THAT NOW SOMEBODY IS TRYING TO REMAKE) AND WIKIPEDIA HAS PUBLISHED A FALSE INFORMATION. NO SUES OF ANY KIND ARE PENDING AGAINST ME AND I HAVE BEEN ACQUITTED FROM ALL THE CRIMES FOR WHICH I HAVE BEEN ARRESTED !!!!!. AND WIKIPEDIA KNOWS THIS, THEY KNOW THIS, BUT CONTINUE TO PUBLISH A FALSE INFORMATION EVEN IF THEY KNOW THAT IT IS FALSE !!!! HOW CAN BE POSSIBLE A THING LIKE THIS !!!!
WIKIPEDIA HAS PUBLISHED A FALSE INFORMATION EVEN IF THEY HAVE BEEN INFORMED BY US THAT THE INFORMATION IS FALSE. THEY KNOW PERFECTLY THAT THE INFORMATION THAT THEY HAVE WRITTEN ON WIKIPEDIA ABOUT ME IS FALSE, BUT THEY REFUSE TO CORRECT THAT INFORMATION, AND REPEATEDLY CANCELLED THE CORRECTIONS, UNTIL TODAY, WHEN THEY, AFTER CANCELLING OUR CORRECTION, HAVE BANNED US FROM THE POSSIBILITY TO WRITE CORRECTIONS ON WIKIPEDIA. WIKIPEDIA IS PUBLISHING FALSE INFORMATION OF ME ALSO IF WIKIPEDIA KNOWS PERFECTLY THAT WHAT THEY HAVE WRITTEN IS FALSE.
FOR THIS REASON THEY ARE SUED BY US FOR LIBELLING.
ANDREA ROSSI

Posted by on May 31, 2013. Filed under Uncategorized. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

81 Responses to Rossi Sues Wikipedia?

  1. John Milstone

    May 31, 2013 at 11:58 pm

    Interesting how he phrases it:

    I HAVE BEEN ACQUITTED FROM ALL THE ACCUSATIONS FOR WHICH I HAD BEEN ARRESTED IN 1995

    I guess that means he was not acquitted for the 2000 fraud conviction, for which he was sentenced to 8 years in prison. (LINK)

    As of late 2004, he was still in prison, and I was never able to find any credible evidence that he was ever acquitted for that conviction (LINK).

    • Renton

      June 1, 2013 at 1:13 am

      #John
      From what i have understood from the reading of http://ingandrearossi.com/ the bankrupcy issues are consequential to the law issues he had and that were eventually all acquitted from all charges.

      In few words, from what i have understood, Rossi has been put in jail for 6 months BEFORE any judgment even took place.
      In this time-span he could not repay the banks for the money he got from them and that he invested in the Petroldragon and Omar. Since he was in jail and all his assets were seized he could pretty much do nothing about it.

      Also, his clients refused to pay too (he was in jail so he could do nothing about this either). To make the things worse the laws they made in those years forbid Petroldragon to sell anything that was derived from waste since everything, the waste and anything derived from it, was considered toxic and harmful… and made a criminal act even the possession of the fuel that Petroldragon was making and selling (stopping the clients to buy anything from it).

      This of course ended in the bankrupcy of Omar.

      Please do read the english translation of the website he links (http://ingandrearossi.net/) and correct me if i am wrong.

      • John Milstone

        June 1, 2013 at 10:27 am

        Renton said:

        From what i have understood from the reading of http://ingandrearossi.com/

        The web site you mention is Rossi’s vanity site. Of course it will show Rossi in the best possible light. But why would you assume that Rossi was being honest? The prisons are full of people who claim to be innocent. Do you believe all of them?

        Rossi was exonerated of the pollution related charges (as the second newspaper article I linked to stated), but I have found no evidence that he was exonerated of the business fraud charges from 2000. The second article (the last one I could find) clearly distinguishes between the two different convictions.

        Do you have any actual evidence that Rossi was exonerated of all criminal charges against him? Or are you relying on Rossi’s self-serving vanity web site for your evidence?

        • Renton

          June 1, 2013 at 12:13 pm

          @John
          So you are assuming that he has been found guilty in the bankruptcy case because there is no evidence stating that he was or was not found guilty (please note that for the italian law you are innocent up to the third grade of judgment)… and you not even care about exactly what were the accusations and why he has been found guilty?

          Yes, http://ingandrearossi.com/ might be biased, but until you have some serious evidence that it is telling lies you should not assume that it is.

          • John Milstone

            June 1, 2013 at 1:41 pm

            Renton said:

            So you are assuming that he has been found guilty in the bankruptcy case because there is no evidence stating that he was or was not found guilty

            If you bother to read the newspaper article, you’ll see that they reported that he was convicted and was sentenced to 8 years in prison.

            The second article states that, as of late 2004, he was exonerated of the pollution-related convictions, but that the bankruptcy fraud charge was still in place.

            I’m not making any “assumptions” about Rossi’s conviction, I’m simply reporting what a major regional newspaper reported.

            I’m also wondering why, if Rossi was exonerated of the 2000 conviction, that no one has found a credible source making that claim. A link to the appropriate Italian court system would do nicely. A newspaper article from a credible newspaper would also work.

            But all Rossi and his fans have is Rossi’s vanity web site. They are the ones making unreasonable assumptions.

    • John Bull

      June 1, 2013 at 1:58 am

      Johnny,

      Your links prove nothing. You are equal (or worse, that remains to be seen) to the man you accuse of false statements…

      Cheers,

      JB

      • John Milstone

        June 1, 2013 at 10:30 am

        John Bull said:

        Your links prove nothing.

        I take it you didn’t bother actually reading them.

        They prove that Rossi was arrested (after being a fugitive in the U.S. for a year) in the summer of 2000, that he was convicted later that year, given an 8-year prison sentence, and that as of late 2004, even after the pollution-related convictions were reversed, the 8-year business fraud sentence was still in effect.

        If you have any actual evidence (not Rossi’s self-serving vanity web site), please present it. Otherwise, it’s reasonable to assume that you don’t know what you’re talking about.

        • robiD

          June 1, 2013 at 12:12 pm

          I think you don’t know what are you talking about (as usual I have to add).
          In Italy you have a second grade judgment and after that you can access to a third grade judgment (final verdict).
          The 8 year sentence was a first grade judgment i.e, far away from the final verdict (ask to your “candid” Amanda Knox for informations).
          As the second link you posted above shows, Rossi has been acquitted with the formula “il reato non sussiste” i.e. a full absolution. A formula like that means that Rossi was unjustly accused because there wasn’t any crime imputable to Rossi.

          But I think that you have not understood yet. In the past I gave you all the sentences number of the courts involved, but you persevere with misinformation, and I think you will continue in the future I know you very well. You are the archetype of the pathological skeptic: no matter how but deny the evidence, always.

          • John Milstone

            June 1, 2013 at 1:43 pm

            robiD said:

            As the second link you posted above shows, Rossi has been acquitted with the formula “il reato non sussiste” i.e. a full absolution. A formula like that means that Rossi was unjustly accused because there wasn’t any crime imputable to Rossi.

            Go back and read the second article again. He was only absolved of the Pollution-related charges. The 2000 conviction was still in effect.

            I haven’t seen any actual evidence that the 2000 conviction was reversed. If you have such evidence, please post a link.

            Posting Rossi’s vanity web page is not credible evidence. It’s a laughable attempt to confuse the issue.

          • RonB

            June 1, 2013 at 6:09 pm

            . A formula like that means that Rossi was unjustly accused because there wasn’t any crime imputable to Rossi.

            That’s horrible. Poor guy. No wonder he’s bitter and is loath to trust some people.

    • MaxS

      June 1, 2013 at 10:41 am

      Mr Inventor must have had constructive brainstorming sessions in prison

  2. Dale G. Basgall

    June 1, 2013 at 12:21 am

    Wow, now the lesson of printing false information falls onto Mr. Rossi’s shoulders. Life is strange and brings into thought the information published by those Italian’s trying to dominate a false market of the E-Cat. Nice work Wikipedia, the Americans always know turnaround is a fair game.

    When you sue someone for slander or libel as Mr. Rossi contends he needs to prove damages unless the slander somehow makes it into irreparable harm.

    Only if Mr. Rossi produces what he contends in the hot cat will his proposed law suit against Wikipedia prevail. That would be a long haul suit lasting longer than the development of a working model of an E-Cat he claims. Time in court = money out of pocket and daily paperwork on the case.

    It is highly probable the suit will never be filed.

    • John Milstone

      June 1, 2013 at 1:49 am

      Dale G. Basgall said:

      It is highly probable the suit will never be filed.

      Yes, but it’s a marvelous distraction.

      I wonder what he has that needs distracting?

      • LCD

        June 4, 2013 at 9:30 pm

        Whats marvelous is that no matter what he does you see the worst intention in it.

  3. CuriousChris

    June 1, 2013 at 4:29 am

    I read wikipedias revision notes

    They claim the information is factually corrects as contained in the sources.

    lol reviewing the history reveals this
    http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Andrea_Rossi_%28entrepreneur%29&oldid=557152335

    Someone is pissed at him.

    anyway they have added that he was acquitted of all but the tax fraud. that still stands it appears.

  4. Francesco CH

    June 1, 2013 at 9:02 am

    You should be aware that Rossi is talking about the ITALIAN VERSION of Wikipedia. Search “Petroldragon” on the Italian Wikipedia. The problem is this: the Italian Wikipedia reports as a source a article from the Corriere della Sera and dated 2004 where it is written that there is still a cause pending on Rossi. Naturally, since 2004 things have changed. However, because no newspaper reported what happened AFTER 2004 concerning this issue, there in not any source that can be added to that page on the Italian Wikipedia in order to specify there this case is not pending anymore.

    • Francesco CH

      June 1, 2013 at 9:15 am

      1st CORRECTION:
      …that there is still a CASE pending on Rossi.
      2nd CORRECTION:
      …THAT this case is not pending anymore.

    • John Milstone

      June 1, 2013 at 10:36 am

      I would suspect that there is a publicly-accessible record of the disposition of Rossi’s convictions. I find it significant that after several years and all the hype associated with Rossi, that no one has bothered to find them.

      If Rossi really had been exonerated in the 2000 conviction, or one of his many devoted fans, produce a link to the official records saying so.

      Instead, Rossi and his fans keep pointing to Rossi’s vanity web page, which is useless. The fact that Rossi and his fans seem to think that people will just accept Rossi’s version of his criminal past just shows how naive they are.

      • Francesco CH

        June 1, 2013 at 11:41 am

        You still miss the point. You are clearly unaware of how Wikipedia works.

        Wikipedia does not accept PRIMARY SOURCES, unless those sources are cited in a SECONDARY SOURCE. In other words, the only way you can report this on Wikipedia is that – for example – the Corriere della Sera would publish a further article to specify that the case concernig Rossi is not pending anymore. It is a truly complicated process.

        • John Milstone

          June 1, 2013 at 1:15 pm

          Francesco CH said:

          You still miss the point. You are clearly unaware of how Wikipedia works.

          Wikipedia is irrelevant. This is just more theatrics from Rossi.

          The fact is that no one has pointed to credible evidence that Rossi was ever exonerated of his 2000 conviction. If that really happened, there would certainly be a public record of it. But apparently none of the people obsessed with Rossi have been able to find it.

          This is just one of hundreds of details that should be in the public record but aren’t. In fact, almost all of the claims by Rossi that we have been able to check have turned out to be lies.

          • Francesco CH

            June 1, 2013 at 3:04 pm

            WTF? Of course there is a public record of it. Go to the Tribunale di Milano in Milan (Italy), there are all the information you need.

          • John Milstone

            June 1, 2013 at 3:44 pm

            Francesco CH, please post a link to the newspaper article you claim shows that Rossi was exonerated in his 2000 conviction.

            The one I posted clearly states that the 2000 conviction was still upheld as of late 2004 (when the pollution-related convictions were reversed).

            BTW, it’s amusing that Rossi and his fans are ignoring the fact that Rossi did create a number of toxic waste dumps, which did require (at least) $50 million to clean up. Rossi wasn’t exonerated because he didn’t do the deed, he was exonerated because the laws they used to prosecute him weren’t in effect until after he created his toxic waste dumps.

            That’s what’s known as “getting off on a technicality”.

          • Francesco CH

            June 1, 2013 at 6:47 pm

            John Milstone, I understand. It is not your fault. Your way of thinking is proper to a US “environment”, not to Italy.

            1) “The one I posted clearly states that the 2000 conviction was still upheld as of late 2004 (when the pollution-related convictions were reversed)”

            Mmmmmm… “In appello pende ancora il processo per la bancarotta fraudolenta”

            http://archiviostorico.corriere.it/2004/novembre/27/Riciclaggio_rifiuti_tossici_Assolto_Andrea_co_7_041127020.shtml

            This means ONLY that an appeal process has not yet started. Maybe you do not know this, but in the Italian legal system this DOES NOT MEAN that the trial was ended with a conviction for Rossi. In Italy a defendant who has been acquitted can be re-tried for the same offence. This means that Rossi was acquitted, and that subsequently the State attorney filed for an appeal. Yes, because in Italy also the prosecutor can file for an appeal trial, and this request is automaticaly accepted (it is the same also for the defendant).

            2) “the fact that Rossi did create a number of toxic waste dumps”

            Rossi did not create anything like this, otherwise he would be convicted for environmental crimes.

            3) “require (at least) $50 million to clean up”

            This means only that someone gained a lot of money thanks to this story.

            4) Rossi wasn’t exonerated because he didn’t do the deed

            Instead, Rossi was acquitted with the motivation “perché il fatto non sussiste”, which means “because the fact does not exist”. So there was no deed at all.

            5) “the laws they used to prosecute him weren’t in effect”

            Rossi started his business because the then-Italian government had previously passed an ad-hoc law (a law made only for the purpose to let Rossi start his business) that allow him to convert waste into “refluopetrolio” (which was a special kind of oil invented by Rossi). Many years later, another government changed the law. And who pushed to change the law? It was a man named CARLO DE BENEDETTI, owner of the CIR Group, owner of Sorgenia, owner of other things. Search on the internet who is this guy, and you will understand why Rossi was forced to run out of business…

        • quax

          June 2, 2013 at 12:10 am

          Been through this dance with Wikipedia as well. This is a well known design problem with how wikipedia establishes veracity. If there is no independent source to link to you cannot get it accepted.

          This detail certainly rings true.

  5. Stefan

    June 1, 2013 at 11:17 am

    Hi

    1. Obviously quite a lot of people is maddened about Rossi.
    2. Rossi do have supporters.
    3. The Question of what happend, is really not clear, anybody saying for sure that this is true or no is clearly biased and should be attributed to 1 or 2.

    Until anybody put up some definitive proof I would not bring up this fact without stating that this fact is under a severe dispute.

    So
    50% He did wrong.
    50% He did right

    50% probability on the judgement of ECAT is peanuts.

    Have fun

  6. Harry

    June 1, 2013 at 12:28 pm

    When Rossi is accepting his Nobel Prize and when he is rich beyond all imagination , none of this will matter.

    • John Milstone

      June 1, 2013 at 1:17 pm

      Harry said:

      When Rossi is accepting his Nobel Prize and when he is rich beyond all imagination sitting in prison for defrauding his investors, none of this will matter.

      There, fixed that for you.

      • LCD

        June 4, 2013 at 9:34 pm

        I vote to limit John Milstones waste of my time posts to 5 per article.

  7. Methusela

    June 1, 2013 at 12:49 pm

    Some news from Defkalion.

    By God, there are scammers everywhere! 🙂

    http://www.lenrnews.eu/

    Direct download:

    http://changingpower.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Defkalion-2-page-JM-Article-100-3.pdf

    • John Milstone

      June 1, 2013 at 1:20 pm

      By God, there are scammers everywhere! 🙂

      I know you mean that sarcastically, but it really is true.

      This article is simply regurgitating DGE’s unsubstantiated claims, with no effort to investigate whether any of the claims are true.

      As with the rest of this farce, only enough to “convince” those who have already drunk the Kook-Aid.

    • John Milstone

      June 1, 2013 at 7:14 pm

      Here is an interview of DGE by Peter Gluck from almost a year ago:

      http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com/2012/06/interview-with-defkalion-i-business.html

      The highlights [my comments in brackets]:

      Third party tests from internationally acclaimed entities as well as leading global technology players in both business and academia have been actively supporting our work. [No evidence of this.]

      DGTG is currently finalising an industrial prototype ready to be presented as a
      commercial product for market entry within 2012. [Fail.]

      Many companies from 78 countries have already approached DGTG with an interest to become exclusive licensees to manufacture our Hyperion products, or to initiate joint R&D projects for new applications, or simply to purchase the thermal output of our units. [No evidence of this.]

      Licenses to build and sell Hyperion products are sold to companies with exclusivity in a given country for Euros 40.5 million. [No evidence of this.]

      As far as I can tell, DGE’s only significant achievement in the last year was to abandon their garage “laboratory” for a tiny office over a tavern in Canada. (Remember how Jed Rothwell kept telling everyone that his “inside information” was that DGE had a first rate lab? Remember how he had to back off of that statement when photos of the hobbyist garage “lab” actually appeared?)

      • Stephen

        June 3, 2013 at 10:19 pm

        “…a tiny office over a tavern in Canada…”?

        How’s the beer at this tavern? The feasibility of any scheme is inversely proportional to the quality of the beer, due to the intake of said beer being directly proportional to said quality (of course, one has to take into account the negative bias of the research program cash flow).

        I am in Canada, I volunteer to investigate! What is the tavern’s address? Seriously?

        • Jack Sparrow

          June 4, 2013 at 6:32 am

          http://defkalion-energy.com/

          Main Corporate Office:
          1140 Homer Street, BC, V6B 2X6,
          Vancouver, Canada

          • Stephen

            June 4, 2013 at 8:41 am

            Yep, that’s the address I found, thanks for confirming! I’ll give the benefit of the doubt to the brewer and take a bus instead of driving… 😉

  8. Kevin Evans

    June 1, 2013 at 2:19 pm

    Isn’t it strange that people with no financial interest at stake in the outcome of the e-cat affair put in so much effort to post anti-Rossi views on so many sites. Mary Ugo must spend all available time researching Rossi’s past and Krivit often comes across to me as simply vindictive. Everybody has right to a view but some people are so keen one can’t help but wonder if there are ulterior motives at play. Wonder how many live in Texas?

    • spacegoat

      June 1, 2013 at 3:24 pm

      I believe “spend(ing) all available time researching Rossi’s past” does not happen.

      Most here have followed the saga for 2.5 years and are fascinated in the end game, if ever it comes.

      Posters such as John Milstone and JNewman must have organized their information on this case for reference (it only takes a small application) or they have good memories.

      This is not a football match with hooligans chanting for and against. No one is anti-Rossi. If Rossi ever comes up with something useful for humanity, then perhaps Paul can organize a whip round for Rossi to thank him for the years of entertainment and laughter.

  9. Shane D.

    June 1, 2013 at 5:31 pm

    More good news. Shows they are still out there. Not that I had any doubts. Afterall, DGT has been regularly active since their appearance last summer at the NI LENR symposium and the Cold Fusion conference (ICCF 17) in Korea.

    They are also soon to participate in the next NI LENR event where they may do a demo, and at this falls ICCF 18 conference at the UoM where they will present a demo.

    As some may recall, ECNs had a lively discussion about Michael Nelsons DGT report last October when DGT released it:

    http://www.e-catworld.com/2012/10/defkalion-gt-publishes-test-results-from-unnamed-group/

    Of course, we didn’t know that it was Nelson (NASA scientist) who did the report -filling in for Melnich, but some crafty snooping uncovered his role.

    As I recall, Nelson was a former critic of Rossi and after his visit to DGT had a change of heart about the field. Seen that happen before… hmmm.

    Add all this to the growing list of reports and tests from Rossi, and even Brillouin Energy (validated by SRI and then co-partnered), and one like myself can start getting just a little excited that industrial grade LENR+ is real and about to happen.

  10. spacegoat

    June 1, 2013 at 5:45 pm

    See P. Gluck’s blog – it is said the “demo” will be a video.

    None of these guys are interested in a conclusive report, so nothing can be concluded.

    Where are the damned customers for this New Fire / Humanity Version 2? No one will step up after 2.5 years?

    • Shane D.

      June 1, 2013 at 6:03 pm

      Spacegoat,

      Yeah, I also went back and got this from a PESWIKI (won’t copy/paste) interview with DGT:

      “Wait until NI-Week in August”, has been Defkalion’s standard reply to most media that has contacted them, which is when they plan to be demonstrating a module in operation for the public, along with giving a scientific presentation about their technology. Ever since the days of Pons and Fleischmann, James Truchard (“Dr. T”), the CEO of National Instruments, has been tracking and supporting the development of this fledgling field the best he can. And last year, Dr. T gave a very warm reception to several LENR groups he invited to attend and present at the conference. Alex is very grateful for his material and emotional support.

      Due to the difficulty of setting up (it takes four days), Defkalion will not be giving the same demonstration at ICCF 18 at the University of Missouri in July, though they will be presenting a lecture there as well.

      Surely, if they don’t do a demo at either event, then the skepts will have a field day and believers will be on the defensive again.

      We shall see.

  11. Shane D.

    June 1, 2013 at 7:25 pm

    Francesco,

    Thanks for the what I hope to be the final word on Rossis’ past legal troubles in Italy.

    This topic had been beaten to death before and each time I recall coming to the same conclusion as you, and then yet again the skeptics (this time JM) drag it back out and start it all over again as they desperately try and tarnish Rossi.

    My takeaway is: Rossi is still living in Italy (Miami also) and travels freely within. He isn’t being chased by the law for his old troubles. There is likely institutional corruption and the mafia (one and the same?) at the bottom of the PetrolDragon story, especially so considering this involves waste disposal… a well known mafia stronghold.

    Enough said!

    Hopefully.

    By the way, it seems that WIKI changed the wording back so Rossi is happy again.

    • John Milstone

      June 1, 2013 at 7:44 pm

      Shane D. said:

      There is likely institutional corruption and the mafia (one and the same?) at the bottom of the PetrolDragon story, especially so considering this involves waste disposal… a well known mafia stronghold.

      Hmm… I find it interesting that the Rossi “True Believers” acknowledge that “waste disposal” is a “well known mafia stronghold” and yet are convinced that Rossi, one of the big names in “waste disposal” in Italy (he was caled the “Oil King”), is pure as the driven snow.

      Everyone else, the Mafia, the government, the press, all of Rossi’s associates (who also were convicted of fraud along with Rossi), and the entire industry are guilty, but Rossi is innocent.

      Sure!

      • Shane D.

        June 1, 2013 at 8:28 pm

        JM,

        Rossi offers such a wealth of targets to attack him by, I just don’t see the point in you guys dwelling on this Petroldragon thing.

        Gosh, the guy exagerates everything. Take a topic: factories, deliveries, independent tests… Rossi just simply presents himself on a silver platter to his opponents and begs for abuse it seems. There is where you guys make inroads and for good reason.

        That is not to say Rossi doesn’t usually have some thread of truth in there because he does. But he does push incredulity at times, even to us believers.

        This legal thing though… you guys get your butts kicked everytime you venture there -as Francesco did today, yet still you come back to it.

        Give it up. Go back to your old strategy.

        • John Milstone

          June 2, 2013 at 1:48 am

          Shane D. said:

          Gosh, the guy exagerates everything.

          People don’t get sent to prison for 8 years for “exaggerating”. Based on everything I’ve read (which is obviously more than the “True Believers”), Rossi was engaged in business fraud (including money laundering) with a number of other businessmen, all of whom were convicted and sent to prison.

          This speaks to his character.

          His behavior since then certainly exposes him as a liar. Even his “fans” like Jed Rothwell have stated that they would never trust him in any sort of business dealing.

          And yet, they act as though it is impossible for Rossi to be less than honest about his gadget. That is nothing short of delusional.

          If Rossi can’t be trusted on the routine and mundane things (and everyone agrees that he can’t), why in the world would anyone believe him when it comes to the “once in a century, world-changing” thing?

          • Shane D.

            June 2, 2013 at 3:07 am

            JM,

            In Itally they go to jail for that. “Country gone wild”. All one has to do is get too noticed and be a business person. It is a socialist/marxist thing. Sorry for the political opinion.

            Never heard about the “money laundering”… can you elaborate?

            Yes, Jed as you say, I and many others think Rossi is a business snake, and none should trust him in a business venture.

            For that matter, when it comes to business you shouldn’t trust anyone. Even your own family. That is the beauty of capitalism: Don’t trust anyone… but verify.

            Speaking of which (verify) what do you say about the ecat? Oh, already know that… sorry I asked.

          • MPB

            June 2, 2013 at 7:57 pm

            I laugh at your inability to smear Rossi effectively. The only statement that could be considered factual, which you used with sickening repetition, was no third party. Now that seven others from two fine Universities support his claims your attempts seem childish at best.

  12. Dale G. Basgall

    June 1, 2013 at 7:27 pm

    If any invention actually worked that Mr. Rossi patented and produced as a product there would be no mention at all of past arrest and conviction records.

    The problem is that he has nothing in product form that actually performs as the claims recite. People get wanting to see a result, a simple result and no one really will care about tests, reports or other rubbish contrived to “report” how good the thing (e-cat) is going to work.

    If Mr. Rossi would produce the product he claims will exist shortly, then none of these irrelevant issues on how bad the guy might be, would warrant any attention from anyone.

    Like Mr. Clinton the president that sucked a cigar that was somewhere most men would appreciate in a private setting with a hot babe. He was canned for that and many others that could potentially do good things are brought to reality when they are attacked by the morally correct mob.

    How many life saving inventions have been made from characters (inventors) with a not so perfect past.

    • CuriousChris

      June 2, 2013 at 12:46 pm

      If Rossi was the real deal. If Rossi could prove the device works as he claims. Rossi would be on his way to being the wealthiest person alive. Even if his device was easily reproduced and stolen. If he patented his secret sauce he would own the rights and be able to chase any copier through the courts. As he often threatens to do but NEVER follows through on. The biggest and clearest evidence against Rossi and his cohorts is the fact that they do not reveal how his device works and refuses to present an independent reproducible experiment.

      Exactly the same comments go for Brillion and DGT and any of the other frauds who profit by not revealing the truth.

      This is as plain as the trunk on an elephant and yet so many people refuse to see it. Self Deception is rife. Just because someone wants something to be true with their whole being it doesn’t make it true.

      As to Rossi’s past, please name one, just one inventor who has risen from the ashes of fraud to present a true invention.

      Rossi has a pattern, one he has followed in the past and continues to follow today. Take something which may be possible. Claim you have solved all the problems and sell it to fools who take your word for it rather than do due diligence. In that I include the military who fell for Rossi’s thermoelectric device.

      Where is that device today? Can you tell me that?

    • Dennis Nilsson, Sweden

      June 3, 2013 at 9:47 pm

      If Rossi was really the real deal, he hasn’t been living today. So he has to play, that he isn’t the real deal.

      It’s better do be a living innovator, than be a former living innovator.

      Doesn’t you understand what a new energy source would do the godfather’s economy?

  13. Eric Krieg

    June 1, 2013 at 7:45 pm

    This looks all too familiar to me. I have tangled with free energy messiahs since 1995 on the internet. I’ve tried to give them the opportunity to provide proper evidence for their claims – and got little more back than threats of lawsuits. I’ve found these people big on manufacturing excuses, and creating drama to distract from the lack of scientific evidence. The biggest free energy con man of the time, Dennis Lee sued me in federal court for 4 years to try to silence me. I encourage fellow honest people with guts to say the emperor has no clothes. May free speech and truth prevail.
    Eric Krieg

    • Shane D.

      June 1, 2013 at 8:38 pm

      Eric,

      There are many here who believe this is different. Have you closely followed the developments over the past 2 1/2 years?

      Many have tried to prove fraud and that Rossi has scammed everyone, yet so far none have been successful. Even many well experienced scientists have sought to show him wrong and instead walked away cautiously optimistic.

      Go ahead and prove him a con artist. We are watching. If you do expose him, then I would like to thank you in advance for freeing me of this mild obssession in following the ecat.

      And after taking care of Rossi then maybe you could go on and expose DGT, Brillouin Energy, Lenuco, NicheEnergy…

      Oh, and don’t forget those rotten school kids at the Pirelli High School in Italy. They are in on it too. 🙂

      • CuriousChris

        June 2, 2013 at 12:56 pm

        “Many have tried to prove fraud and that Rossi has scammed everyone, yet so far none have been successful.”

        Do you honestly to the core of your being believe this?

        Its true that no-one can conclusively prove fraud unless they get unfettered access to the experiment. No-one has had that. Rossi of course wont allow that. No dishonest person would. Yet an honest person would be KEEN to have his theory proven.

        Rossi only attacks those who are critical he does not invite them to prove it for themselves. His recent paper released by his biggest supporter and cohort Levi and friends does nothing to alleviate this problem.

        Critical Thinking is a process. Its not something you leap to in a few seconds. a critical thinker reviews his own thoughts for flaws. They do not cling to a belief based on nothing more than hope and wishful thinking.

        • Shane D.

          June 2, 2013 at 4:18 pm

          Curious,

          Well if I believed it 100% I wouldn’t come here. Sure I have some doubts; mainly for some of the reasons you mention. Thats why I welcome Eric in his quest, although I can’t quite see exactly what he is going to do that others more qualified haven’t?

          That said there has been a growing body of data that has accumulated with each passing month making it that much harder to dismiss Rossi. This last test on the Hot-cat, while not up to skeptics standards, is by far the most open and convincing to date.

          Many more talented then you have signed off on it that were there. Many more that have looked at the data from afar have endorsed it also. Many of whom, especially those EE types, think the electrical hanky panky theories out there are just that -out there.

          In large part I take my ques from scientists and engineers. The more titled, the more I listen… And what I hear is a growing excitement. If they are excited, then I am very excited.

          As to your point: “Rossi should be KEEN (some don’t like caps here by the way) to have his theory proven”…

          That may be the case, but he also wants to keep the technology to himself. He’s a business man afterall. Duh.

          You got me on the “critical thinking” part though. Guess we believers just don’t have what it takes in that category. 😉

          • CuriousChris

            June 5, 2013 at 3:40 am

            “That may be the case, but he also wants to keep the technology to himself. He’s a business man afterall. Duh.”

            Oft touted as an excuse for Rossi’s behaviour. but in my opinion an invalid one. If Rossi proved his claims beyond a doubt then he would already be much wealthier than he is now without the need to skulk around.

            Two possible reasons he would not be keen to show he has the real thing.

            1/ He is paranoid and believes what he has done is so easy to duplicate as soon as he reveals it people will start building their own and ignore him

            2/ He is a con man

            I am more inclined to believe the second.

    • Thicket

      June 2, 2013 at 12:14 am

      Eric

      Thanks for posting.

      You’re well known for exposing frauds. I have a lot of respect for the battles you fought and the information you provided in the early days of the Internet. You exposed yourself financially for simply speaking the truth and outing fraud. In my opinion, the legal battles you and Randi fought and won have discouraged other fraudsters from going down the legal route.

      You’re somewhat of an icon amongst those who challenge the dirty world of pseudoscience frauds like Rossi.

    • quax

      June 2, 2013 at 12:21 am

      Eric, they’ve been around for much longer, in the eighties is was newsletters and overpriced cheaply produced periodicals and books.

    • Dale G. Basgall

      June 2, 2013 at 6:16 pm

      Eric I have viewed your site, the last discussion was December of 2012. Am I not seeing the current discussions or is that the last topic discussed.

      Nonetheless the site interested me and since you posted here are you concluding to start the topic on LENR based science?

    • Stephen

      June 3, 2013 at 10:25 pm

      The emperor has no clothes, which is too bad considering he is from Italy, which is still the best place for such. And for the (petroleum-byproducts-fuelled) cars to go with them…

  14. John Milstone

    June 1, 2013 at 8:28 pm

    Francesco CH, unfortunately, I don’t read Italian, so I have to rely on Google Translate.

    In the Google Translation of the article you posted, supposedly to show that Rossi had been acquitted of all charges, can you please explain the following line:

    Appeal is still pending in the trial for fraudulent bankruptcy due to the collapse of Omar, the company that took over from Petrol Dragon refinery Lacchiarella and meant to be distilled waste: for this process, in 2000, Andrea Rossi was sentenced to summary proceedings by the Gup Milan to eight years in prison.

    That certainly doesn’t sound like an acquittal.

    Perhaps Rossi was acquitted of that charge as well. But I haven’t seen any credible evidence of it (and I spent an entire day searching through the entire archive of the Corriere Della Sera looking for any references to the “Oil King”.

    I’m perfectly willing to concede this point, as soon as someone finds a credible reference to prove their point. But no one has done so. All they do is point to Rossi’s vanity site, which is laughable as a “credible” source.

    • Ransompw

      June 1, 2013 at 8:46 pm

      You spent a whole daying searching the archive of Corriere Della Sera. I’d be embarressed to admit such lunacy.

      • RonB

        June 2, 2013 at 12:44 am

        I’d be embarressed to admit such lunacy.
        LOL

      • John Milstone

        June 2, 2013 at 1:40 am

        Ransompw said:

        You spent a whole daying searching the archive of Corriere Della Sera. I’d be embarressed to admit such lunacy.

        Sorry, I was looking for actual information. I know that concept is foreign to you, but some of us actually use real facts and data to make up our minds, rather than “Rossi Says”.

        • John Milstone

          June 2, 2013 at 1:42 am

          And, meanwhile, I’m still waiting for a “True Believer” to provide any actual evidence that Rossi was acquitted on his 2000 conviction and 8-year prison sentence.

          But all I get are childish insults from the usual gang of idiots.

        • Ransompw

          June 2, 2013 at 2:48 pm

          Looking for actual information is fine. Spending a day doing it about this subject might suggest you don’t have much of a life. That is all I was saying.

          • Stephen

            June 3, 2013 at 10:28 pm

            ‘Beats being a lawyer.

  15. Anon2014

    June 1, 2013 at 9:25 pm

    Petroldragon:

    So what. I assume that he in good faith attempted to distill fuel from waste and that the technology did not work as well as hoped, plus it would not at all surprise me to see an over zealous prosecutor looking for brownie points, like Amanda Knox who was prosecuted in a kangaroo court for murder in Italy. Once the prosecution started, the rest of the consequences (i.e. waste left over that could not be processed) would have happened. Maybe I am right (Rossi good faith in the Petroldragon business), Maybe I am wrong. This has no bearing whatsoever on the ECAT work. If he is suing Wikipedia, I assume that he got the conviction overturned on appeal, as did Amanda Knox. So let us leave the Petroldragon affair behind.

    I am slightly more interested in the heat to electricity conversion devices in the US when the freedom of information act disclosure comes through.

    I am more interested in the robotic factory claims.

    And I am more interested in a bonified third party independent test where the fuel is weighed and then hermetically sealed from the atmosphere or water; and where the heat output is measured using flow calorimetry; and where the electrical input is fully measured in all frequencies (DC up to microwave); and finally, where under patent the fuel is actually disclosed. Why should there be the possibility by say 2 times that the heat output is different than estimated in an experiment. And I might add, that the demo device doesn’t do anything useful other than heat the air in the laboratory around the device. It doesn’t heat a working fluid that can be used to do work.

    My current suspicion remains combustion or both endo and exothermic “chemical” (electron shell) metal hydride reactions (with different metal hydrides, one for storage of hydrogen, one for the production of heat). It maybe a new reaction that may be economically useful. It may actually be LENR. It may be the equivalent of a hydrogen fuel cell for combusting hydrogen and nickel. It may be efficient, but not revolutionary. It may also be revolutionary. I can’t tell from this experiment.

    I would like to remove the degree of mystery around the test and I would really like more professional communications. If you are going to claim to have a robotic factory, you must show it, for example. If you are going to claim that you have shipped three 1 MW units to customers, you must show one in operation. And if you claim to have a major and reputable investor, you must disclose that investor. All this bait and not disclose is unprofessional.

  16. Al Potenza

    June 1, 2013 at 10:49 pm

    Rossi is going to sue Wikipedia? I’m ROTFLW. All crooks threaten to sue their critics, especially the ones who tell the truth. But they never carry through. As soon as they are compelled by the court to provide quality evidence that their claims are true, they fold. Perfect example is Sniffex. They sued Randi and dropped the case as soon as the judge asked for expert evidence and a proper demonstration in court showing that Sniffex worked.

    Steorn kept threatening to sue various critics on its forum who kept accusing it of lying. It never did because it was, in fact, lying.

    I bet Rossi never carries through with any law suit based on claims that he’s a liar and a fraud.

    • RonB

      June 2, 2013 at 12:41 am

      I’m ROTFLW.

      That made me laugh.

    • CuriousChris

      June 2, 2013 at 1:01 pm

      Perhaps we should count up the number of times Rossi has threatened to sue and count up the times he has followed through.

      On the latter its easy, Zero.

  17. Harry

    June 1, 2013 at 11:51 pm

    I see a lot of envy in those criticizing Dottore Rossi.

    They are nothings who have never accomplished anything , and never will.

    Meanwhile Dottore Rossi has given the world one of the most important inventions in history (after fire and the wheel).

    • quax

      June 2, 2013 at 12:26 am

      Harry, once he actually would have given it to the world, in the sense that you can either purchase the thing, or other’s can replicate the process I’ll be all too happy to join in your praise – until then, not so much.

      Instead of new fire we got Tantalus torture for several years now.

  18. quax

    June 2, 2013 at 12:03 am

    Am I alone in thinking that all caps is a criminal assault on every readers’ eyeballs?

    • RonB

      June 2, 2013 at 12:43 am

      It’s quite offensive to me, I mean, unless something’s about to hit you in the head or some other natural disaster.

      • Shane D.

        June 2, 2013 at 2:27 am

        Caps bad, but bold face Okay?

    • JKW

      June 2, 2013 at 4:06 am

      Quax, it is an eye sore, yes, but one should be accustomed to it while browsing the Johnny P. Caps lock is a customary technique to indicate a new BS being announced that is somewhat different from the prior BS. Bottom line, it creates fluff at ECW.

    • Anon2014

      June 2, 2013 at 4:55 am

      All CAPS.

      It’s poor man’s italics. Single key and your in.

  19. Shane D.

    June 2, 2013 at 1:50 am

    Eric Krieg,

    I gather from thickets response that you are somebody of importance in the debunking community. By the way…I have no problem with that at all, and welcome you to the fray.

    Not to be snide, but I will say that you are in good company here. Skeptics here on ECNs rule the roost so to speak and us few believers fight an uphill battle. Over on E Cat World (ECW) it’s the opposite.

    Nevertheless, very few of our resident skeptics have learned the art of respectful disagreement. That has been such a problem that I think it was partially responsible for bringing this once best LENR forum down to a distant second. Hopefully you will be different.

    Now to business:

    May I ask just how you are going to go about debunking Rossi?

    Many have tried as I said. Amongst whom are first rate scientists and engineers, only to walk away somewhat impressed by Rossis’ ecat.

    Probably one of those most prominent is Hanno Essen. Prof Essen, Theoretical Physicist, and 3 year Chairman of the Swedish Skeptical Society:

    http://www.vof.se/about/

    is now quite the believer. That says a lot to those like myself, but he is just the tip of an iceberg of converts.

    As I said before; I wish you well in your mission re Rossi. I think it is good what you do… honestly.

    • Al Potenza

      June 4, 2013 at 5:22 pm

      Hanno Essen is working out of his field and is grossly incompetent when reviewing Rossi. He failed to understand that you can’t measure the dryness of steam with a humidity meter, he failed to force Rossi to place thermocouples in the flowing stream of his exchanger as it should be, he said he ruled out DC in the last experiment and didn’t say how and he never asked Rossi to conduct blank and calibration runs. Actually he did get Rossi to agree to a calibration run once, on the most recent demonstration but then Essen did it wrong! He’s a silly clod. He has no business testing Rossi’s stuff.

  20. RonB

    June 3, 2013 at 12:15 am

    How about, any of you that post on the JONP, ask AR if he thinks his partners would mind if he gave us their name in celebration of his upcoming birthday.
    Or at least another important clue ; )

    • Al Potenza

      June 4, 2013 at 5:23 pm

      Rossi has been asked that many times. He always says he can’t due to varying things– sometimes it’s NDA, sometimes it’s security, sometimes it’s so they can work in peace. If he is really selling ecats, none of that makes the slightest sense. He’s obviously lying. There is no customer and there has never been one.

  21. Michael

    June 5, 2013 at 6:22 pm

    psiram.com writes about the tests dec. 2012/march 2013 (in german).

    https://www.psiram.com/ge/index.php/Focardi-Rossi-Energiekatalysator#Experimente_von_Dezember_2012_und_M.C3.A4rz_2013_-_.22third_party_report.22_Mai_2013

    The third bordeland.de picture from top is interresting: it shows that the measuring computer PCE830 was switched in 3phi3w mode, but they made Y-connection measurements. And there is no tension on L3, but current is 6 A. This instrument was computing false values.

    M.R.W.

  22. TruthSprayer

    June 7, 2013 at 7:18 am

    http://www.lenrnews.eu/proof/

    Skeptics: read em and weep. Or more likely, come up with another confirmation-biased rationale to shoot down this slideshow because it shows up on a site dedicated to LENR and therefore must be biased. Either way, if you pay taxes in the US, some of your money has been spent already studying LENR.

    Breaking dogma is difficult, especially when lots of vested power interests want to perpetuate said dogma. But proof is proof. See it for yourself.

    (hint: E-CatHT functions as advertised, but is an inferior design and needs lots of work. other laboratory designs are much more successful)