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More Meta Data On HotCat Test

May 31, 2013

The following is a rough translation from Google of what appears to be a presentation published as a pdf at Borderlands seems to report on fringe science and the Swiss company Transaltec AG – an eCat licensee is among the links on their homepage. The pdf is here and includes some familiar images. I put this here for your info before studying it myself. It’s late!


“Peer reviewed Tests” the E-Cat technology of Ing A. Rossi and LENR: International energy markets feared earthquake-like shifts

On 14 Th December 2012 visit to the editors, managing director of TransAltec AG (Swiss distribution license holder of the E-Cat technology), the new large labora-tory of the Leonardo Corporation in Ferrara. There they were there, the measurements shown are from four inde-pendent professors evaluated the results of the international energy market far more dread than Andrea Rossi, as the following report shows.

Do not fear the measuring resultaten! The visit, the results and objectives can not be publizert, was held together with Swiss and German business partners TransAltec AG. Andrea Rossi showed all participants, inter alia, a measurement setup from the Hot-E-Cat (500 degrees). These measurements are “peer reviewed” analyzes of four independent professors. After measurements were carried out for seven days, according to A. Rossi, would the measurement setup the next day – ie on 15 December – down and the measurements evaluated. He did not fear the results, he said, but the editors: “I’m the measurement results in each case publish whatever they may be, too!”

However, he informed the editors neither who the measurements where the still-led evaluation yet when and where they will take place det published. The reason is simple: he does not know it ourselves! Let the experts take care (which he has entrusted himself), which perform the measurements, credibility and confidentiality until the end. But one thing is certain: Andrea Rossi himself has done for months or years of measurements, before he was ready to independent mea-surements It must therefore be assumed that the measurements confirm his own results!

As is known, it is the E-Cat technology is a nickel-hydrogen reaction in which hydrogen by ionization in the metal lattice of the nickel crystals difun-dated and in different Folgepro processes via nuclear excitation or transmutation of energy into thermal radiation is converted. This means that with this method, without fuel, with little (recyclable clierbarem) nickel and hydrogen and sixth electrical power supply – that is, with a COP of 6:1! – A 1 MW plant (10 kW heating systems and later) are operated.

Visit to a reference system only after the signing of a LOI! Several 1-MW turbines were sold in November 2011 and are in operation in the United States. From the end of February / beginning of March is a 1-M plant visits are the can in Italy with an Italian energy company. At the meeting of 14 Andrea Rossi December 2012 made it clear that he wants to make sure position-ing that no inquisitive access the service. The condition for a tour of a plant ge is therefore only possible if inter-ested previously signed a Letter of Intent LOI, which they obliged to buy a plant, once they have seen on the spot that the reference system works and they could speak with the operator of the 1 MW plant.

The organization of the tour runs through the instruction of the respective licensees Sales-sorganisationen: in Germany, it is the E-Cat-Germany GmbH under the leadership of CEO Hartmut Dobler, in Switzerland it is the company TransAltec AG under the leadership of Adolf and Inge Schneider. For this purpose also see the presentation of the E-Cat technology in the Congress “Technologies for Energy Transition” of 11-12. May 2013 in Königstein (page 18). In Switzerland, will take place on 22.2. the next E-Cat meeting place for partners, in Germany already run training courses for distributors and sublicensees. For more information on the websites 1.2

The energy industry fears earth-shaking turmoil! While engineer Andrea Rossi feels relatively sure of the results of independent measurements, fears have already used other around. Several insider websites such as Feng Shui News Blog reports circulated by which major oil companies such as BP, Shell, Exxon and others have begun their investments in oil fields around the world to sell. The backgrounds would serve that the E-Cat & LENR-technologies would provide plenty of swirls behind the scenes.

Thus, these circles would with voltage for February announced the review for the latest E-Cat development, the so-called “Hot Cat” expect. We hear what the editors from our own experience of already know:

“An independent science team also de-December 2012 has tested the LENR reactor of the Italian inventor Andrea Rossi and pre-sented in brief the results in a scientific journal (peer reviewed) of the world public. Will this finally release the long awaited ‘LENR hype’ in the mainstream media? ”

Would for some industries, so here is everything at stake: First of all, it is about nothing less than the promise of a- ner inexhaustible energy source that will provide future every human on earth, and perhaps far beyond our planet with clean energy rer. No oil, no coal, no “nuclear power” would the more needed for energy, and wind power and solar energy would disappear from the screen surface. Why? Because on “Low Energy Nuclear Reac-tions” (LENR) energy gained hardly consumes resources and therefore costs almost nothing.

But it really depends on the pre-vious lack of independent testing by A. Rossi, that LENR research and the development of relevant applications in the public consciousness so far only permanent Schattenda is-a? Certainly not. Rather it is the societal conditions and grown over the years, closely intertwined with each other economic, political and media structures that hold the interest of “Cold Fusion” for years small or scientists to ridicule award-tion, although in hundreds was already shown by laboratories around the world that LENR works.

Already last year, the MIT, one of the world’s most renowned scientific institutes, LENR-tested a small reactor with the name “Nanor” the size of a Tupperware publicly. Admittedly, the amount of energy generated Ing Andrea Rossi (left) is (besides Prof. Sergio Focardi) although with his E-Cat technology-the most successful, but by no means the only protagonist of cold fusion and LENR (Low Energy Nuclear Reactions). January / February 2013 NET-Journal Vol 18, Issue 1/2 15 was small with about 78 milliwatts. However, the fact that the reactor for months generated 12 times more energy than was plugged back into it, provide long for worldwide headlines in popular scientific magazines. But nothing has happened.

Even Toyota, Mitsubishi, StMI-croelectronics, Amaco, the U.S. Navy and NASA have not played now officially confirmed that they are off on LENR topic and have achieved in their own laboratory investigations promising results. You ask yourself seriously: If all this does not reason enough to get together physicists worldwide to finally understand the LENR phenomenon and to make available to mankind, as billions more to Forschungsgel countries in projects of “hot fusion” to sink?

As for the persuasiveness of “scientific arguments”, Max Planck, one of the fathers of quantum theory, once gbeschrieben very aptly: “A new scientific truth does not enforce in such a way that their opponents are convinced and agree as instructed, but much-more by the fact that their opponents die out gradually and that the growing generation is familiarized with the truth from the beginning. “Even if the scientists themselves in self-defense hard to do with the acceptance of technologies such as e-Cat devices so but can the international press, such a development no longer ignore, because not scientists, but “ordinary people” are the main part of their readers – and is already too big of Rossi hype.

Turbulence in gear! If you are thinking that the expected review will immediately lead to turbulence in the international energy markets, has obviously followed the financial news of recent weeks not particularly attentive. For this turbulence is already well under way! First oil companies have understood it. It says “oil-producing tower burning – E-Cat & LENR responsible for earthquake-like shifts in the international energy markets?”

Or: “Burning oil förderturm: symbol for the beginning of the decline,” It is as mentioned a fact that the big oil companies such as BP, Shell, Exxon and others have begun their oil fields for sale around the world (s . Petrobras has spent a decade so that, majority stakes in a large-Texas oil refinery need to acquire. Now they are desperately like to get rid of it and take even large discounts in buying

Nuclear power plants and Ölmul-ti at the end? Nuclear power plant owners in the U.S. cancel their investment projects and are preparing their equipment to progressively close out. All these companies give reasons, which seem plausible in itself, but in this global massiveness allow connection to only one conclusion: We are in the midst of dictation th through free energy technologies, energy revolution! Who does not believe, here are more examples of the “diversification and divestment strategies” of the oil companies who have a different background:

BP: 20527045 do?categoryId=2012968&contentId =7081129 categoryId=2012968&contentId= 7080956 rosneft_and_bp_to_develop_new _arctic_oil_fields_19411.html

Shell http://www.hydrocarbons-technology. com/news/newsshell-divests-stake- nigerian-oil-asset

Exxon 2013/01/13/exxon-and-the-world- of-foreign-oil.aspx 08444/Weak-Demand-Outlook- Forces-Exxon-Mobil%E2%80% 93XOM%E2%80%93to-Sell-Its- Japanese-Unit 2012/ 11/07/us-iraq-exxon-idUSBRE 8A60Y420121107

While the general public of the true background of the shifts in the international energy markets practically knows nothing, many scientists stuck still their head in the sand, maintain their dogmas and let the representatives of politics and media, their themes dictated by the economic , there are a growing number of people, their hope of a better and fairer world to the breakthrough free energy technologies – not to mention the e-Cat technology! – Socialize. This breakthrough is unstoppable, as well as a many-explicit contributions in this book show!

Sources: technology.htm


Dr. Peter Hagelstein,


[With thanks to Claudio C Fiorini on Vortex]

Posted by on May 31, 2013. Filed under Close Up,Hands-On,Press/Blogs,Rossi,Tests & Demos. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

63 Responses to More Meta Data On HotCat Test

  1. John Milstone

    May 31, 2013 at 12:37 am

    I would wonder why TransAltec AG would even be interested in Rossi’s gadget, since they have been “selling” for years a perpetual-motion electric generator. You just spin it up to speed, and it generates megawatts of electrical power until the bearings wear out.

    Prices start at $8 million for the smallest unit, requires a 50% deposit up front, and they will deliver the finished unit in 18 months (so they say).

    Rossi’s involvement with TransAltec is one of the best reasons not to take him seriously.

    • psi

      May 31, 2013 at 2:26 am

      Perhaps, but the document contains a lot more than that detail, all (or mostly) tending towards the confirmation of Rossi’s legitimacy.

      • John Milstone

        May 31, 2013 at 6:39 am

        psi said:

        tending towards the confirmation of Rossi’s legitimacy.

        Do you then accept TransAltec’s claim of having a perpetual motion machine? Even though they can’t actually show you one in action unless you pay them at least $4 million?

        If not, how can you then use them to “confirm” anything else?

  2. spacegoat

    May 31, 2013 at 4:32 am

    I admit, the following combination could be the basis for a quantum leap in human progress:

    1. Rossi’s criminal past:Tax Evasion, Forged Invoices, Toxic Waste and Illegal Gold.
    2. Feng Shui peddlers
    3. Perpetual-motion peddlers
    4. Nothing but blogging and lack of any reasonably conclusive (independent location and testers) evidence for 2.5 years
    5. Rossi’s failed ventures: Petroldragon, Thermocouples.
    6. Rossi’s dubious qualifications.
    7. Flogging unavailable products to licensees.
    8. Empty patents referencing secret sauce.

    Yes, I admit it is possible, but unlikely. My basis for entertaining this possibility is that Starlite was invented by a hairdresser.

    However the inventor Maurice Ward’s activities had none of the attributes 1 to 8 cited above and his invention was publicly and authoritatively tested. Ward did not try for a patent to avoid revealing his formulation process. He did not attempt an empty secret sauce patent either.

    • RonB

      May 31, 2013 at 5:30 am

      It doesn’t seem logical to hand his invention over to strangers to carry off to some independent location.

      • John Milstone

        May 31, 2013 at 7:24 am

        RonB said:

        It doesn’t seem logical to hand his invention over to strangers to carry off to some independent location.

        Of course, it doesn’t seem logical to trust Rossi, given his history and the complete lack of confirmation of any of his claims.

        Explain how the device in the “cheese” videos work, and explain why Rossi couldn’t have used the same or a similar dodge, and then we’ll have something.

    • spacegoat

      May 31, 2013 at 8:38 am

      To test a black box it is not necessary to be an associate or known supporter of the inventor to assume the role of tester.

      The box can be under the surveillance of the inventor 24/24.

      These are not issues.

      Maurice Ward handed his invention over to the UK Defence Ministry and the BBC. Ward did have something real. Maybe there lies the difference.

      • RonB

        May 31, 2013 at 9:43 am

        lol Spacegoat.. all I can say is, when you get something like what AR is supposed to have, let’s see if you just hand it over to a group of skeptics. Once they did test it and in theory would generate a COP of 6 the next thing they would want to know is “How” and here they had that box in their dishonest little hands.
        24/7 surveillance, ha! I’ve seen enough episodes of Mission Impossible to know that’s risky at best.

        • spacegoat

          May 31, 2013 at 11:34 am

          So you imagine some competing group will send in the heavies, shoot up the inventors goons at the independent location, kill the testers and make off with the black box?

          So the Rossi saga continues because of this Mission Impossible risk?

          Incidentally, the Mission Impossible excuse for not testing properly is more likely at Rossi’s well known location.

          • RonB

            May 31, 2013 at 9:40 pm

            Noooo SpaceGoat.. the idea was that a mission impossible act would be to setup a tape look on the monitor camera so it wouldn’t be showing folks looking inside and trying to figure out how it works.

        • John Milstone

          May 31, 2013 at 11:37 am

          RonB said:

          I can say is, when you get something like what AR is supposed to have, let’s see if you just hand it over to a group of skeptics.

          That would be the best way of demonstrating that he really does have something like what AR is supposed to have. But it’s not the only way.

          They invited, as far as we can tell, only people who already “believe” in both LENR and Rossi (that’s certainly true of Levi and Essen). Levi is the only one worth considering, since it’s obvious that the others just went along with his sub-par instrumentation and testing protocols (set up with Rossi’s guidance and approval).

          All they need to do is invite one or two skeptics, and allow them to measure whatever they want, however they want to do so, outside of a clearly defined “black box”.

          This would specifically include a outside-supplied “extension cord” that would be used between the building’s power and the “black box”. That would be wide open to whatever measurement they wished to through that power cord.

          That would quickly show whether Rossi’s gadget was drawing more power than claimed.

          Another, very easy, test would be to just unplug the gadget during all those “off” periods, and see if the time/temperature remains the same as when the gadget was actually plugged in.

          But I seriously doubt that Rossi will allow any of that.

          Remember 2011, when Rossi continually ignored the suggestions of both the skeptics and his friends for improving the testing of his gadget. Instead, he kept the same flawed steam measurements and the flawed thermocouple placement and the flawed power-in measurement (using the same meter, as far as we can tell, as the one used in the new tests).

          In fact, his demos actually became worse as he went along, until by the October 28th test, he didn’t show anything at all. But the “True Believers” bought it all the same.

      • Paul Stout

        May 31, 2013 at 10:37 pm

        It is also not necessary to be a critic to make an impartial test on the device.

    • Anon2014

      May 31, 2013 at 9:08 pm

      You forgot the robotic factory, the UL safety certification, and the incessant use of the term “snakes” and English as a second language in public communications.

      If Rossi has a real effect, which he might (and hopefully does); he has damaged his own PR with his own pronouncements on JONP. Enough already. It has been unprofessional — nothing that a single professional communications employee couldn’t do better.

      • RonB

        June 1, 2013 at 2:14 am

        You may be right but honestly I think he really enjoys that part of the job. I know I like to get daily updates from the man himself.
        If it turns out true then all the more cool, if not, then it’s like jeeez, you jerk. lol
        Folks can talk about the ones that came before but I wasn’t there. I had no personal stake in it. This is somehow different. Maybe it’s the “fool me once, shame on you” part of the life experiences. Others are on the 2nd part of that old saying. ; )

  3. Mike Jones

    May 31, 2013 at 12:25 pm

    Rossi is well beyond spacegoats skeptic fanboys
    soon you will see where and who Rossi has partnered with, how quickly you forgot the Greek theft.

    • John Milstone

      May 31, 2013 at 1:10 pm

      Mike Jones said:

      soon you will see where and who Rossi has partnered with

      We’ve already seen who he has partnered with: an American company (Ampenergo) that disappeared after issuing a press release, and a German (Swiss?) company (Transaltec AG) that is “selling” a perpetual motion machine.

      We’ve also seen who Rossi has lied about partnering with: University of Bologna, University of Uppsala and National Instruments.

      Continuing to claim that Rossi’s “secret” partners and “secret” customers are credible, or even real is getting very old.

  4. JKW

    May 31, 2013 at 2:20 pm

    All ya believers, can you tell me when this “indipendent” report will turn into a product you and me can actually buy?Folks are waiting for this sh*t to materialize for lwo years already. Shut down the site, Paul. It’s a broken record.

    • Paul Stout

      May 31, 2013 at 3:57 pm

      How long has it taken for all of the reports on hot fusion to turn into a working product? And you are complaining about a measly two years?

    • Anon2014

      May 31, 2013 at 9:12 pm

      “Shut down this site Paul”

      No JKW, we need this free and open medium of communications between both skeptics and believers.

      Sure we are all waiting. But I value other people’s opinions from both sides of the fence.

  5. Paul Stout

    May 31, 2013 at 2:47 pm

    And just how long have we been waiting for hot fusion to turn into a real product and how much money has been invested in it?

    • John Milstone

      May 31, 2013 at 3:23 pm

      Paul Stout said:

      And just how long have we been waiting for hot fusion to turn into a real product and how much money has been invested in it?

      I see Believers use this argument regularly, and I don’t understand what it is they’re trying to prove.

      No one doubts the theory and science behind “hot” fusion. It’s just a very difficult engineering problem. Is it worth the billions thrown at it? Probably not. But that in no way means that it somehow is worth throwing money at LENR.

      LENR has neither a solid theoretical basis, nor a convincing experimental basis. No one can even agree on what, if any, transmutations should occur, what, if any, radiation should be emitted. All the claims have in common is “anomalous energy”, which is almost always small enough to be due to errors of some sort, and which are never reproducible.

      To suggest that the failure of producing a practical Hot Fusion reactor is in any way a plus for Cold Fusion is irrational.

      • Anon2014

        May 31, 2013 at 9:19 pm


        “… “hot” fusion. It’s just a very difficult engineering problem. Is it worth the billions thrown at it?”

        Yes. Sooner or later (maybe 100 years in the future) it will result in a working device, Maybe other techniques will ultimately be more economically valuable. But we will have learned to model and manage both plasma and inertial confinement. This will have some other uses as yet to be discovered, perhaps in space travel for example.

        And we have given a working purpose for the lives and employed thousands of physicists and engineers in the process.

        This exactly matches the worth of the LHC project at CERN. Or even the Apollo moon program. We learn something. We may or may not achieve goals. We train and employ good people. And we advance the state of the art in one segment of science/engineering.

        I offer no defense of the internecine attacks by the hot fusion community on LENR. This is wrong. Both areas should be explored within the available research dollars for exactly this purpose. I would propose that LENR be granted 5% of the hot fusion budget; as it is “smaller” science.

        • John Milstone

          June 1, 2013 at 10:44 am

          Anon2014 said:

          I would propose that LENR be granted 5% of the hot fusion budget; as it is “smaller” science.

          According to LENR researcher Ed Storms, about $500 million have been spent on LENR already.

          And after all that time and money, they still can’t provide better evidence of LENR than Bigfoot fans can provide of their big, hairy friend (lots of unsubstantiated claims, but no proof that other, non-believer researchers can test).

          • Anon2014

            June 2, 2013 at 4:40 pm


            If $500mm has been spent in the last 20 years, about 125 scientist working per year, then it is about the right amount so far. The money spent by peer reviewed scientist working and publishing their results is worthwhile by definition. If they can isolate a reproducible effect it may yield both new science and new engineering. It may not be “LENR”, it may be metal hydride “chemical” (electron ring) “reactions”. New models may be developed of the quantum mechanics of electron clouds in crystalline matrices.

            Bigfoot — don’t care. Good science I like.

            If in the end it provides new useful technology, even better.

    • Thicket

      May 31, 2013 at 3:26 pm

      Paul Stout

      Yeah. It took mankind about two thousand years of documented trying to fly before there were real products. I guess we should have given up.

      The thing about flying and hot fusion is that we know both are possible. There are birds and there is the sun.

      • Paul Stout

        May 31, 2013 at 3:59 pm

        There were many people quite convinced that the report Rossi claimed was coming out would never happen.

        I have seen far too much repeatable research on LENR or cold fusion to blindly assume that it is not possible.

        • Al Potenza

          May 31, 2013 at 4:17 pm

          Most skeptics believed that Rossi would not provide a truly independent third party report and he didn’t. Many skeptics predicted that Rossi would have his old cronies do another inadequate and indeterminate test with insufficient precautions against deception and that is exactly what happened.

          Cold fusion may or may not be possible but either way, it has no bearing on Rossi. Even if cold fusion is possible, Rossi is almost certainly a fraud and so is Defkalion.

          • Paul Stout

            May 31, 2013 at 5:07 pm

            If Rossi is a fraud, then he is a “d*mn” good one.

            He allowed 7 reasonably intelligent people the opportunity to bring their own test equipment and examine everything except the inside of his reactor or control box for a period of days.

            I cannot come up with any way to scam the results that would pass that sort of examination.

            I have been a skeptic for more than 52 years, and I’m really hard to convince. I have made a serious study of the ways that people can be fooled and how they can fool themselves.

            The only means I can postulate that would make a scam like this possible involves some serious technology that has not been invented yet.

          • John Milstone

            May 31, 2013 at 6:04 pm

            Paul Stout said:

            If Rossi is a fraud, then he is a “d*mn” good one.

            In terms of money scammed, he’s only middlin’. There have been plenty of “high-tech” and “free-energy” con men who have collected more money from gullible investors.

            In terms of generating “buzz”, I would agree with you. Joseph Newman may have been in the same league, and John Keely certainly was (over 20 years, a publicly-traded company, and never sold a product, or even demonstrated his gadget outside of his “laboratory”).

            He allowed 7 reasonably intelligent people the opportunity to bring their own test equipment and examine everything except the inside of his reactor or control box for a period of days.

            I have a couple of problems with this statement. First, it wasn’t “7” people who brought in their own test equipment. It was Levi, and he appears to have brought in only the exact same piece of test equipment Rossi was using in 2011.

            Second, The fact that these people are “reasonably intelligent” has very little to do with their ability to detect fraud.

            Scientists, in particular, are used to dealing with Nature, which may be subtle but is not malicious. If they want to detect fraud, they should bring in a magician. Penn Jillette would be a good choice. I’m sure he has the personal phone numbers of enough experts to advise him on any possible scam.

            And (again) a great test would be to unplug the power cord during those 4-minute “off” periods and see if that changes the time/temperature curve. I’m sure Rossi wouldn’t allow anything like that.

          • Paul Stout

            May 31, 2013 at 7:09 pm

            anybody that thinks that nature isn’t malicious hasn’t studied biology. Nature has its own way of hiding secrets.

            Besides the meter, there are also two IR cameras invovled in this test, and they supply a lot of data if you know how to look for it.

            And, as for bringing in the same piece of test equipment, or at least something that appears to be the same model – it is probably a piece of test equipment that gets used by Levi a lot so he knows when it is telling him the truth and when it is lying. Any engineer can tell you that all test equipment lies, you just have to understand its limits.

  6. Dale G. Basgall

    May 31, 2013 at 3:34 pm

    Inventors develop a product after they work to produce one. A product #1 is produced to be useful so people can justifying spending their money and time on.

    2)- Inventions turn into reports, the text written is at best virtual until work x time produces the product.

    3)- Products come from something that achieves a purpose and is non obvious.

    None of that has been addressed at this point so it appears we will need to just keep going on knowing someone else is working night and day on the product for a time long enough to build a spaceship. It doesn’t appear “the product cat” is near.

    There is nothing useful to a tube red hot setting on a metal stand, that is a goofball way to exhibit your product. What can you put it in to do anything without more work and energy to do the task with the hot tube, than it would have taken to accomplish the task by hand work?

    That tube I would state as an attempt to exhibit a potential that others can speculate about which brings hope, cash and publicity to the originator/inventor of it.

  7. Shane D.

    May 31, 2013 at 3:54 pm

    In reading the article (tough read) -written probably in jan for feb publication, apparently Rossi did have access to the testing room during this december run. Enough so to bring these business associates onto the site.

    The recently released findings show two professors did the december test run… not the “4 independent professors” this article states. Minor point maybe.

    It also appears the professors weren’t even in the room during this chaperoned visit. You can see the camera trained on the instrumentation to rule out hanky-panky in their absence though.

    Still, it makes it difficult to argue this was an independent test and report when Rossi and his pals were trolloping all over the testing area, with the scientist attendees not even there.

    Interesting that the article mentions that there was, at that time, an ecat running in an Italian energy company where those who sign a LOI (letter of intent) could observe a running prototype. I don’t recall that one, but then again there is getting to be a lot to forget.

    On a final note; personally, as a believer, I cringe everytime I read of Rossis’ “business partners” like this TransAltec. Of all the weak links in this saga, I’d say that his selection of distributers is the weakest. They just seem like a sleazy bunch. Hard to imagine just what an Ecat empire, supplying the worlds energy, would look like with these guys as the foundation?

    Overall, IMO, this article is not good for the home team.

    • Paul Stout

      May 31, 2013 at 4:05 pm

      TransAltec appear to be either seriously deficient in logical thinking or charlatans, and this post does nothing to convince me that Rossi is for real.

      • Al Potenza

        May 31, 2013 at 4:20 pm

        In my opinion, TransAltec are crooks. And not particularly successful ones at that.

      • Shane D.

        May 31, 2013 at 4:49 pm

        Along that theme, I just posted this over on ECW:

        “Rossi is now, in his own words, the “chief scientist” in this new business relationship with Carrier or whomever…

        What I can’t understand is: why then is Rossi still actively developing his ecat distributor network? Then also: why would this reputable new business partner accept the low quality, questionable character, of new partners being brought in by the likes of Roger Green? Why would they allow the licenses to be sold for so little (couple hundred thousand as I recall)?

        And let’s face it; the Roger Greens, TransAltecs, are not the types that one establishes a solid business foundation upon, let alone build an energy empire that will supply the worlds energy needs… is it?

        It isn’t adding up to me. A Carrier or GE type company in partnership with Rossi would take the reins in establishing the network of distributors, sales, etc. and keep Rossi doing what he does best… develop his ecat technology.

        And yes, I am a believer!… but when things don’t make sense they don’t make sense.”

        • RonB

          May 31, 2013 at 6:13 pm

          It could be that there’s a plan for multiple products. Just because you have the license to sell an e-cat doesn’t mean your licensed to sell a portable electric generator.
          The number of new products based around this kind of tech would be many.

          • John Milstone

            May 31, 2013 at 6:31 pm

            RonB said:

            It could be that there’s a plan for multiple products. Just because you have the license to sell an e-cat doesn’t mean your licensed to sell a portable electric generator.

            IIRC, the franchise agreement was for all products.

            But since there is no sign of any products, I guess it doesn’t really matter.

          • Shane D.

            May 31, 2013 at 8:04 pm

            I tried to link the PESWIKI interview but won’t paste here. Anyways, if you go to Alans site and read the May 17th Roger Green interview, then it seems that what you are saying is unlikely.

            Not sure though.

          • RonB

            May 31, 2013 at 9:46 pm

            All products? Again, pretty inaccurate. Do you mean “All Rossi products”? Do you mean “All heat related products”? Do you mean “ALL products”.. such as in my version of the LENR reactor once I get it working? Yikes! lol

          • John Milstone

            May 31, 2013 at 10:17 pm

            The contract with Roger Green (published HERE says:

            The products covered by this Agreement.

            3. All current and future E-Cat products, and in particular:

            3.1. The E-Cat 1Mw Unit (see current Specifications below)

            3.2. All future E-Cat Products including any domestic and any larger and smaller E-Cat Products.

        • Deleo77

          May 31, 2013 at 8:45 pm

          It appears that the big partner/customer has been a recent deal that Rossi has done. So he may have gone to Roger Green early on to do independent distribution deals, but those distribution deals could and should have buy-out clauses. I would be surprised if someone who paid $10k, or whatever it was for a distribution license, would get a lifetime distribution rights for that territory without any ability to take them out.

          So there could be a clause in the final agreement that says that AR or his partner can buy the license back for $1 million or something. I’m just guessing but it would be the smart thing for Rossi to do. People would still sign up for that deal.

          I think Rossi used the small checks from the distribution rights to fund his development. He can’t really sell those rights anymore because they have basically all been sold. They could be divided or there could be a secondary market for them. But I wouldn’t count on that for much more income.

          So the interesting thing is, if he is scamming investors, there is not much more that he can do in his scam. He could try to issue a penny stock and get more mom and pop money that way. But Rossi really seems to be talking up his big new partner. He said their funding the development. He is not exactly asking for donations on his website. Again, saying his financial needs are now covered by some big time partner doesn’t lend itself to a scam.

          As far as the partner, GE, Westinghouse, United Technologies are all possibilities, as is a wealthy individual, but my money would be on Siemens. They have a huge American subsidiary, and Rossi has talked about working with them before.

    • RonB

      May 31, 2013 at 4:39 pm

      You’ve got that right about the partners that seem to be drawn to this new invention. I guess that since it’s so fringe that it’s about the only ones willing to jump into the fray. I wouldn’t call them “Mom and Pop” businesses. If they end up getting ripped off then what can we say about that?

      The fever that detractors seems to be showing now is quite interesting. If a demo does come up with some even more convincing details, those few may become as fierce as a lion backed into a corner.

      • John Milstone

        May 31, 2013 at 5:02 pm

        RonB said:

        I guess that since it’s so fringe that it’s about the only ones willing to jump into the fray.

        That would stop being true whenever Rossi allowed a credible, independent test.

        UniBo expressed interest in doing actual independent testing, both in 2011 and 2012. Rossi claimed that they were doing so, but he was lying.

        NASA expressed interest in doing actual independent testing, but Rossi kicked them out when they made it clear that they were considering how his demos could be faked.

        National Instruments expressed interest in working with Rossi, but Rossi was only interested in getting a nice press release from them. He then lied about their involvement for the next 3 months, until they also released a statement making it clear that they had never done any technical work with or for him.

        • RonB

          May 31, 2013 at 6:17 pm

          *rolls eyes*
          John, John, you’re quite the broken record aren’t you.

          • John Milstone

            May 31, 2013 at 6:29 pm

            A typical response of a True Believer who doesn’t have the facts to dispute what I’ve said.

          • RonB

            May 31, 2013 at 7:18 pm

            Facts are not important to you, you can just make up your own whenever you choose.
            Or twist something around to make it support your cause, whatever that cause might be.
            The NI is a good case in point. You said
            until they also released a statement making it clear that they had never done any technical work with or for him.

            You want facts John,
            While Ms. Betts reiterated once again that Leonardo Corp was not currently a customer of National Instruments, there have been ongoing discussions between the two parties . . . After my conversation with Ms. Betts, it would seem that the word “discussion” as used in this context has a meaning with somewhat more depth, with that meaning being ongoing technical collaboration between the parties . . . Over the past several months [Rossi] has frequently stated that he was working with National Instruments on E-Cat development. I specifically asked Ms. Betts if these statements were exaggerations or outright lies on Mr. Rossi’s part and she informed me that THEY WERE NOT, and that indeed Mr. Rossi has been portraying Leonardo Corp’s work with National Instruments accurately.

            How does that jive with your remark
            He then lied about their involvement for the next 3 months, until they also released a statement making it clear that they had never done any technical work with or for him.

            You’re going to stand behind some weak defense about the definition of “technical” because we all know how you are. Unless you were part of those “discussions”, don’t claim to know what depth they were at and how much technical information was passed between companies.

          • John Milstone

            May 31, 2013 at 8:46 pm

            Ron, you’re ignoring the two actual emails from Julia Betts, which have been published verbatum, and instead you are relying on the 2nd-hand comments by someone who has a record of misreporting the facts regarding Rossi (Frank over at E-Cat World). Remember, it was Frank who “reported” that the “shipping container” E-Cat had been shipped to the “secret customer” the day after the October 28th do-nothing show.

            Meanwhile, you are presenting a highly distorted version of events. Here is the followup email from Julia Betts, in response to Frank’s misleading article (emphasis mine):

            In November of 2011 the agreement referenced should be clarified as a series of discussions including NI making preliminary suggestions about which NI platforms could potentially be used for the control system. These discussions are the same discussions we would have when initiating with any customer and can include signing confidentiality paperwork or logo placement, but is not a definitive agreement to work together. We are a tools provider so again I want to emphasize these types of discussions are part of standard practice in order to assess if we can meet a customer’s needs. Rossi and the Leonardo Corporation are not currently a customer of NI. Our interactions did not go beyond initial discussions and we did not design a control system for them. We are not currently, nor have been for some time, in current discussions or working with him.

            Keep in mind that for the previous 3 months, Rossi made numerous claims about National Instruments “working closely” with his “secret customer” and “building a controller” for him.

            He was lying, repeatedly and consistently.

            It was only after his lie was exposed by the first email from Betts that he suddenly changed his story to one where NI only “taught him things” over the period of a few weeks. It was that completely different version that Frank Akland used to justify his misleading article.

          • RonB

            May 31, 2013 at 9:52 pm

            No John, You may say that he possibly exaggerated his involvement with NI and that might be true. When he says they helped him, or that he viewed his working with them as close. You can’t call that a lie.

            You’re getting quite the reputation for exaggerating yourself if not outright distortion of the facts.

            You really NEED to working on your accuracy in reporting things.

          • John Milstone

            May 31, 2013 at 10:05 pm

            When he says they helped him, or that he viewed his working with them as close. You can’t call that a lie.


            Rossi spent 3 months claiming, very specifically, that NI was “building a controller” for the E-Cat.

            Julia Betts said, very specifically, that NI never did so.

            Either Rossi or Betts is lying.

            The fact that Rossi changed his story after Betts’ emails makes it clear who was doing the lying.

  8. Thicket

    May 31, 2013 at 5:08 pm

    This is too funny.

    Remember all of Rossi’s claims about his secret catalyst? Heck, the recent ‘demonstration’ was assumed to use catalyst, although no one was allowed to see it. Maybe not. Maybe it was simply nickel powder, a hydride, something… but not a catalyst.

    Throw all the ‘secret catalyst’ stuff out the window.

    In Rossi’s April 15, 2013 filing for an EPO patent, there is no catalyst! That’s right folks. First it was cold fusion, then Rossi says it wasn’t. First it was secret catalyst, and now there is no catalyst.

    A major reason (amongst several others) that Rossi’s original patent application was rejected was because of the undefined ‘secret catalyst’. Rossi did the logical thing. He took out the ‘secret catalyst’. The eCat gets energy without using catalyst. Maybe Rossi should replace the name eCat.

    I think it’s time for another set of believer rationalizations as to why this most recent change in Rossi’s claims makes absolute sense. Here’s my suggestion. “Woohoo, Rossi is a friggin’ genius. He has made another major improvement by eliminating the catalyst from his eCat!”

    • Methusela

      May 31, 2013 at 6:35 pm

      Maybe you should start using the name “T-Wat”?

    • Dale G. Basgall

      May 31, 2013 at 7:28 pm

      Actually his original patents have more holes than a fishing net used in the ocean.

      Usually a patent application cost is based on how many claims you have but the Rossi patents applied for by him would have costs mounting up by amendments. Those are each time another examiner has to review the invention and or a question as to the art classifications and divisions from the original application.

      That’s called a weak patent due to enforceability and if the invention is worth money you can sure bet there will be disputes levied costing yet more to the inventor.

      Invention products should be sought after subsequent something apparently working and there does not have to be anything present except the working product. I haven’t in the past couple years viewed anything close to a product much less today with the hot cat seems to be simply still trying to prove the concept that it is possible to get heat from the process after quite a large amount of grid electricity is used.

      The power companies should promote this type of product using AC current, just like the Westinghouse days with Tesla. It’s all about moving money around, the more it moves the more likely some will shake off my way…

    • John Milstone

      May 31, 2013 at 9:02 pm

      Just as Rossi simply dropped the lead shield which was supposedly necessary to generate the heat, when it became inconvenient.

      Just as Rossi simply dropped the claims of Ni -> Cu process when he was unable to show any signs of it actually occurring.

      His E-Cat is so wonderful that you can leave out the critical parts and it still works as well as ever!

      • RonB

        May 31, 2013 at 9:53 pm

        If you will notice there’s lots that has changed from the first version of his invention to the current one.
        That’s called “Improvements” DUH

        • John Milstone

          May 31, 2013 at 10:10 pm

          That’s like saying that one “improved” a car by removing the engine and gas tank, because they aren’t really necessary to make the car go.

          Rossi hasn’t “improved” his story, he’s completely changed it. At least the original Rossi-Focardi paper had a logical consistency. As long as you believed that the Coulomb could be overcome (in some magical way) the rest more-or-less made sense.

          Now, he’s thrown all that away (no 511KeV gammas, no lead shielding to convert them into heat, no transmutation of Nickel into Copper) and replaced it with “Rossi Magic”.

          Also remember that Sven Kullander promised, in November 2011, to release a “detailed isotopic analysis” of the “ash” from an E-Cat, and he promised to do so “before Christmas”.

          We’re still waiting.

          • RonB

            June 1, 2013 at 5:57 am

            Can you show me the links where AR says
            no more gamma rays are present(ever)
            or no transmutation of Nickel into Copper (ever)…???
            I don’t pretend to read everything he writes but I don’t remember his posting those things.

            For the record John, I’m not a “true believer”. I am just here like so many others, just watching the show.

          • John Milstone

            June 1, 2013 at 4:15 pm

            RonB says:

            Can you show me the links where AR says
            no more gamma rays are present(ever)
            or no transmutation of Nickel into Copper (ever)…???
            I don’t pretend to read everything he writes but I don’t remember his posting those things.

            I have to believe that you arrived to this party late. Rossi (and Focardi’s) original claim was that Nickel was transmuted into Copper, giving off 2-511KeV gamma particles in the process, and that those particles were absorbed by the lead shielding, producing heat. They had the math worked out and everything, based on (supposedly) years of work with “thousands” of E-Cats.

            From their claims, it is simple to calculate how much Nickel would be “used up” producing a specific amount of energy (2-511KeV per transmutation). Rossi then gave out a sample of the “ash” supposedly from an E-Cat that had been running for 6 months. The “ash” contained about 10% Copper, in line with what would be expected for the specified energy production.

            However, all of the elements in the sample occurred in exactly the natural ratios. This is completely incompatible with energy production. It is compatible with simply mixing together powered Nickel, Iron and Copper in the proper ratios.

            Sven Kullander claimed, in November 2011, to be doing a “detailed isotopic analysis” of the ash, and promised to release the report “by Christmas” (a month from when he made the statement). A 18 months later, he still hasn’t released the report, and he hasn’t provided any explanation for why he hasn’t done so.

            Now, Rossi claims that any transmutation is “incidental” and that no gamma rays “escape” the device, even though he provides no explanation of how the energy is generated without transmutation or energetic gamma rays (which would escape his new “skinny” E-Cat, if they existed). Now, it’s just “Rossi Says” it works, as if by magic.

  9. RonB

    May 31, 2013 at 9:58 pm

    I just re-read the warning page. I can apologize to you for doing more than just ignoring some of the ones that fit the bill in the warning but at some point I guess we just all grow tired of the same ole crap over and over.

    A group of posters, normally anonymous (on this site and elsewhere) continue attacking Andrea Rossi and his claims. They appear to be on a mission, are scientifically trained, often sneering, prolific and hell-bent on trying to get everyone to believe that only idiots think the eCat or LENR is real. Reserving judgement is one thing but this appears to be a deliberate campaign designed for unknown purposes.

    Most skeptics do not belong to this group but the noise generated by that minority can overwhelm discussions. With time, you will begin to recognize the FUD and bin it.

    It’s hard to just bin it when he directs his crazy comments directly at me even if I wasn’t responding to his posts.

  10. CuriousChris

    June 1, 2013 at 3:33 am

    When considering the testing and the results and who did what. One should keep this in mind.

    Levi is Rossi’s goon. He has been with him since the start (as far as I know) He has been involved in every public test. He has had ample opportunity to answer the critics. Yet has never done so, Not once.

    If you still believe Levi is anything other than Rossi’s goon please recall the video of him holding up the black tshirt to show the steam exiting the pipe as scientific proof of Rossi’s claims.
    ~11 minute mark

    The very same video that proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that Rossi was not generating enough energy to substantiate any of his claims.

    So to somehow conclude that this guy has now gone straight and is to be trusted is a long bow to draw.

    The believers of course accepted Ross’s claim that the video was for demonstration only and wasn’t meant to prove anything. Except he failed to disclose that at any point in time until after the criticism rolled in. At which point he could have redone the video correctly but instead did as all good conmen do, acted insulted!.

    The latest tests only reveal Rossi has become more professional in his fraud, but as the test was overseen and effectively controlled by his man in the room Levi. I do not have any faith whatsoever in it at all. Levi is more embroiled than ever.

    Trust Levi at your own peril.

  11. quax

    June 1, 2013 at 3:51 am

    Since I am German I have the misfortune to easily read all the stuff at This site is so far out there, that when I came across this (before the hot cat report came along) I decided to not blog about it.

    Some fringe is even too fringe for my fringe blog 🙂

  12. Al Potenza

    June 1, 2013 at 10:54 pm

    “Paul Stout said:

    If Rossi is a fraud, then he is a “d*mn” good one. “

    I think he’s a good judge of which people are the most gullible and at the same time give an air of respectability, for example he has a gem in Hanno Essen and similarly, in Brian Josephson and Mats Lewan.

    I also think he’s been inordinately lucky. I suspect with the involvement of the younger Swedish scientists and the risks they are taking, Rossi’s luck may be about to change. Or in the alternative, he won’t let them test anything again which is in any way similar to anything anyone tested before.

    He always seems to be able to think up some clever way to obfuscate the tests and probably also to cheat.

    So, yes, in that sense, he is a d*mn good fraud! And a hilarious one too. Now, I’m off to outsourch an indiependent good weekend! Warm regards!

  13. Peter Cowen

    June 5, 2013 at 12:25 pm

    If it is genuine, simple, contact Radio 4. There are independent and genuine interests over in the UK who aren’t just going to steal it and BBC Radio 4 is a good way to start it and once its that public no one can shut him up.

    But he doesn’t want super high profile safety and validation because its a con.

    Also whats the worst that could happen? He doesn’t make a trillion dollars but he saves countless lives and improves the world. Again no chance.

  14. Michael

    June 5, 2013 at 6:25 pm writes about the tests dec. 2012/march 2013 (in german).

    The third picture from top is interresting: it shows that the measuring computer PCE830 was switched in 3phi3w mode, but they made Y-connection measurements. And there is no tension on L3, but current is 6 A. This instrument was computing false values.