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HotCat To Star In 6 Month Live Feed

May 27, 2013

In an interview posted at Sterling Alan’s site, former chairman of the Swedish Skeptics’ Society, Hanno Essen answers questions about the test. Of note is confirmation that Giuseppe Levi provided the measuring equipment, that they did not check for a DC component and did not use an oscilliscope to examine the waveform coming out of the wall socket which they assumed to be of the untamperred utility kind. This is a shame. I personally doubt that cheating would be done in this way unless Professor Levi was complicit (somewhere I will not go without proof) but after Hartman’s encouraging description indicating caution, excluding such obvious and simple checks leaves the door open to criticism from the gallery.

He also indicated his understanding that the 6 month test will be streamed live on the Net. If this turns out to be true and the testers respond to requests and inevitable criticism, finally, we may get the closure on this mystery the world desperately needs. It does however set up the worry of this all sounding like a perpetuation of the Rossi Reality Show. Despite this, I would welcome such a development as long as it does not become a diversion excusing another year of delay.

Posted by on May 27, 2013. Filed under Uncategorized. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

29 Responses to HotCat To Star In 6 Month Live Feed

  1. Tom Baccei

    May 27, 2013 at 1:48 pm

    The ecat crowd has seemingly thinned out a bit, the skeptics a bit more civil, and the believers less naive. Seems that the “middle ground” of incompetence and carelessness has dwindled a good bit, and we are left with either a complete and very intentional hoax, or the real deal.

    The fact is that no matter what this testing group did, no matter how thorough, skepticism would still be in play. Science does not proceed by accepting the results of any particular experiment, but in the ability to repeat it. What is missing from these demonstrations is the recipe for doing so, and regardless of what else is demonstrated, or “streamed” only when these results are repeatable will anything like real acceptance begin to emerge.

    Mr. Rossi surely knows that, which is why I think that, regardless of the truth or deception of his claims he is thoroughly enjoying the portable feast which is the groupies, followers and skeptics of it all. It is why I have always been more interested in the psychology of the whole circus, and not so much the technical arguments and theories.

    Scientific acknowledgement of the ecat is not yet possible, nor is condemnation of it as a fraud. We are all playing in the shadows of our own belief systems for now. The world which will emerge if this energy source is real cannot even be imagined in any detail by the most astute futurist among us.
    Anyone making an investment in a venture as speculative as this is either well prepared to take the risk, or the fool who will soon be parted from his money. I honestly cannot feel sorry for them if they have not fully evaluated the extremely high likelyhood that they will lose every penny even if the Ni-H reaction IS a breakthrough energy source.

    One thing I can only sincerely hope for is that Mr. Rossi is keeping good notes of the actual goings on over the past few years, and that he finds himself a really good Hunter Thompson, or Truman Capote to bring the real story to us, be he a charlatan or the unlikely midwife of a new era. Please Mr. Rossi, you owe us at least that!

  2. Kevin Kingery

    May 27, 2013 at 2:56 pm

    I remember way back when F&P trying to reproduce there experiment in a tank was 10 of there fusion devices in one long tank 9 out of 10 didn’t work every one said it was a failure! I looked at that poor little guy all buy his self running right along (I think of the story of the little train that could)every one else said it can’t be done,and that little guy keep right on running,seem to me no one was interested in that poor little guy! Now they get 9 out of 10 and that still is not good enough, I for one like rooting for the underdog.Rossi calls you political nay sayers, snakes. could be deserving. 3yrs+ Has got to be the biggest skam ever.I don’t think it’s probable to go that long and not get caught by the scientific main stream! Me I was one of the first to get my name on the list for 10. my hopes and prayers to Rossi.”_”

  3. Frank

    May 27, 2013 at 3:05 pm

    The ecat crowd has seemingly thinned out a bit, the skeptics a bit more civil, and the believers less naive.

    The sceptics went to http://wavewatching.net/fringe/ , and the “true believers” are on e-catworld. – And I would think that after 2 years of Rossi’s contradictions quite a portion of the earlier Rossi followers don’t pay attention to the e-cat saga anymore.

    • Methusela

      May 27, 2013 at 3:18 pm

      Don’t worry, Frank.

      We’ll all be over there to watch you eat crow, very soon.

    • Dale G. Basgall

      May 27, 2013 at 4:17 pm

      Crowds are always the ones that want to jump onto something for a free ride and “like a bandwagon”, the skeptics are simply opposing believers and both go off of a system of personal belief (one in the same mindset)and the followers are simply parasites looking to be fed something.

      I think all of you have recited or thought the same scenario saying “Lead-Follow- or move out of the way.”

      The leader at present is Mr. Rossi (fact), the followers are just standing by waiting for someone else to verify what the leader has told them and the skeptics are useless ticks on the leaders back.

      In the quantum world there is only position in a specific bit of space so there are those in a position that are working daily to knock down some progress in this field LENR.

      These people are the learners that take what the leader has said and go out for themselves, spend money, spend time and observe for themselves. They produce work not contrivances of belief in either way.

      One man that I know of on his own is sifting through one piece at a time using his own money and not spreading a belief system and actually developing critical parts of control for the LENR based system.

      His name is Jack Cole and he has the LENR-Cold Fusion site. He is a brilliant doctor and diligently working daily on this LENR work. Try out his site sometime because it does not fit in with “believers-non-believers or followers” kind of neutral information of which may be a different read to some here.

    • quax

      May 28, 2013 at 6:43 am

      May want to add I only opened my fringe blog after Paul closed shop, so that there’d still be an uncensored LENR forum. It is not supposed to be a sceptics hang-out, they just tend to collect at my blog because they get kicked out all other LENR places. “Believers” are also most welcome.

      Since Paul seems to be most interested in Rossi and the ecat saga, I will probably focus more on the LENR science aspects.

  4. Dan Woodward

    May 27, 2013 at 5:43 pm

    I have always wondered why these tests are not conducted with a real-time oscilloscope which can store 100 % of the input V and I signals, compute power simultaneously, and do the math for K watt-hours after the test. It could also store temperature data on a third and fourth channel.

  5. Anonymole

    May 27, 2013 at 5:45 pm

    It’s been a great show. And as spectators we not only get to watch and listen, we get to participate, in a way, as well. I will give it to Rossi in this regard, he has been, at least, accessible.

    As futurists, we spin the roulette wheel and attempt to predict how the world might turn out. It’s fun, challenging and imaginative. If you make enough predictions, chances are one or more of them will turn out right. All futurists do this. You can crow about those and ignore the dozens or hundreds of others that bombed. Doubtless few will get it right when/if it comes to NFE, but hey, “what a world, what a world” (melting into goo).

    I still think Discovery should host a part or all of the video stream. Think of the ad space! Remember all the undersea video – LIVE video – of the capping of the Deep Horizon well? Millions tuned into watch those robot divers work, fascinated. What an advertising bonanza. Rossi could make money just selling the rights to film the test.

    And as for the test, yeah the Mythbusters might not be the best choice, but what if it were all staged on a barge in a river or the Mediterranean. Load it up with a diesel generator with a tank of a specific size to supply the required AC, a plexiglass room to house the components and cameras inside and out to document the test. What a show that would be. What intrigue. A beacon through the night glowing in the dark, like a campfire of olde.

    I’d watch. I’d tune in every morning to see what was what. I think millions would.

  6. Thicket

    May 27, 2013 at 5:49 pm

    When a site like eCatnews is dormant, it loses a lot of participants.

    eCatworld is the Rossi fansite that caters to believers. Skeptics are not welcome or are outright banned.

    Wavewatching is more tolerant, but has a higher proportion of skeptics. I don’t think anyone has been banned. Believers tend to stay away because they get challenged. On eCatworld, they all embrace in a love puddle funfest, assured that the administrator will shield them from the more vocal skeptics.

    As Frank pointed out, the overall level of interest in eCat has fallen a lot.

    • Methusela

      May 27, 2013 at 6:43 pm

      Eaten any crow yet?

      • Thicket

        May 27, 2013 at 10:25 pm

        Nope, and I don’t expect to.

        On the other hand, the chicken pot pie that my wife made last week was delicious.

    • quax

      May 28, 2013 at 6:51 am

      Nobody has been banned at my site, and unless somebody was only to trade in insults it’ll stay that way. Only personal insults is were I draw a red line if things get too ugly. Other than that I’ll try to run a free speech zone (it’s also the only thing I can do to not have moderation eat into my limited time budget).

  7. John Milstone

    May 27, 2013 at 8:48 pm

    Levi claimed to have seen what would have been the most impressive E-Cat test (the 18-hour, no-steam test). Unfortunately, he lost all the data, so all we’re left with is “it was hot a long time”.

    He may not be complicit, but he certainly seems sloppy.

    Meanwhile, since this latest test occurred in Rossi’s facility, it was indeed sloppy, or worse, to just assume that the electrical service had not been tampered with.

    There are several examples of earlier con men doing such tampering to perpetrate a scam.

    • Methusela

      May 27, 2013 at 9:08 pm

      .e

    • Eric

      May 27, 2013 at 9:24 pm

      Excuse me sir, but i would like to have your full REAL NAME along with your credentials and publications if any. That way i can compare you to Levi et al and find out if your comments have any substance or if you simply are here to spread FUD.

      Thanks in advance!

      • Al Potenza

        May 27, 2013 at 9:58 pm

        Hey, Eric,

        Try answering the issues instead. For example, did you see the Youtube video of Krivit’s interview with Levi? Did Levi not admit to losing or not getting the appropriate data in his February 2011 ecat test? Did Levi not refuse to duplicate that test ever since? Does that not make him sloppy at best and an accomplice to fraud at worst? Isn’t Levi a close friend or associate of Rossi?

        THOSE are RELEVANT questions. What you asked makes no difference at all. Are you too dense to see the difference?

        • Eric

          May 27, 2013 at 10:30 pm

          “Al Potenza”,

          Look, here is the deal. Whatever criticisms you and your digital FUD buddies have regarding Levi or others in this saga means SQUAT to me as long as i cannot compare your seemingly vast knowledge on the matter to the scientists who have signed their names on this last report.

          In fact it means less than squat, its more like jack shit!

          Now, you got some criticism? You want to challenge the authors of the latest report? Fine, let me know who you are or shut the hell up and crawl back under whatever rock you came from.

          • Al Potenza

            May 27, 2013 at 11:19 pm

            Problem here Eric is that, like the prostitute who had a ghost for a client, you are laboring under a delusion.

            Somehow you think that we (or anyone else) care what YOU, an anonymous, unpleasant, and apparently ignorant internet user, cares… about anything.

          • Eric

            May 28, 2013 at 12:37 am

            “Somehow you think that we (or anyone else) care what YOU, an anonymous, unpleasant, and apparently ignorant internet user, cares… about anything”

            Hold up a minute there, Al. Wasn’t that basically the same thing i told you? Its like you took my comment, tranformed the text, and got the same essence! Isn’t it great to get to do this with SOMEONE ELSES comments for a change?

            At least my comments are not tiresome, repetetive or worse. I have seen you, milstone and others post the same CRAP over and over and over AND OVER FOR 2 YEARS!!!

            Whats wrong with you, seriously?

          • Al Potenza

            May 28, 2013 at 1:37 am

            @Eric

            What you miss, as do the other weird believers, is that the skeptics don’t argue that you should believe them because of WHO they are. They argue that you should consider and respond to their FACTS and theories and the issues that those raise.

            And of course, it’s not the same story over and over. It’s timely responses to the same sort of quackery and nonsense from Rossi buddies over and over again, each time in slightly different but equally smelly form.

            I can’t help it if you and those who think like you simply don’t understand how science and technology actually work.

  8. kirk c.

    May 27, 2013 at 9:15 pm

    Rossi calls Ethan Siegel (the astrophysist scienceblog) and Motl (string theorist) imbeciles (yesterday but changed imbeciles to naives today after some reflection? )
    Andrea Rossi
    May 26th, 2013 at 3:36 PM

    Dear Robert Curto:
    he,he,he…right! I am reading really laughable comments in blogs of naives…not only this one, that says he discovered the Professors were veterinarians, but another, for example, who says he is an astrophysic ( but a Prof of Astrophysics I know never heard about him and from what he writes suspects he is more an astrologue than an astrophysic…) who discovered that the charge cannot make the job, without having any idea about what the charge is, unless-as an astrologue- he read the formulas in the cristal ball, another who says the emissivity is wrong, but analyzing what he writes appears evident that he simply does not know what is the emissivity, how it works and did not understand that higher values of the Epsilon calculation does not imply higher energy irradiated in the calculation, due to the lowering of the values of the temperatures registered by the thermochamber when the epsilon is assumed higher . The calibration of the Epsilon has been made with the highest possible precision, and the margin of error has been considered in the more conservative measurement. An expert of the art can understand this reading carefully the text of the Report.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  9. Anonymole

    May 27, 2013 at 10:14 pm

    Six months? Why not just one month? Six months to delay what? Our expectations again? For someone with a “factory” cranking out e-cats, I would think any product manager would be in continuous test mode. Especially with something as controversial as the Rossi LENR Core. There should be racks of them running right now, attempting to iron out the bugs and mfg processes.

    And don’t tell us they’re hard to make or expensive, unless the secret ingredient is Vladimir Putin tears. Rossi’s own words were that a core would be in the ten(s) of dollar range. Rossi, or whomever is running the show now, should have thousands of cores available for extended testing. And dozens undergoing constant test as we speak.

    Or is Rossi still in the one-off stage? Or has Rossi’s American master now taken over the production cycle? Will Elforsk now step in and double down on obtaining “proof” and not just “indication”? And will they test more than one at a time?

    • quax

      May 28, 2013 at 6:53 am

      Vladimir Putin tears. Nice one 🙂

      Now there’s a secret ingredient that’s hard to come by!

    • RonB

      May 28, 2013 at 3:28 pm

      From what I had read online the delay was the time available from one of the testing folks, not the availability of something to test.

  10. spacegoat

    May 28, 2013 at 1:41 am

    Nice illustration of Faith (Believers) versus Science (Sceptics) in this thread.

    Faith based posters lacking in science culture use reputation (of Levi) and personal attacks (“eating crow”) as discourse, incapable as they are from judging the evidence for themselves.

    No one will eat crow. Only an idiot would not celebrate discovery of Cold Fusion.

    The bald fact is that after 2.5 years of RossiSays we have some more meta evidence:decent scientists had the gadget on a bench in front of them. Unfortunately the testing setup and protocol does not allow the drawing of any conclusions. Had they taken more care on measuring input then the situation would be different, warranting a “This effect appears to be real.” statement. The testing did not advance the case for or against.

    • Anonymole

      May 28, 2013 at 3:02 am

      I used to try and have meaningful, rational discussions on the topic of the existence of god with a group of Mormons I used to work with. Lovely folk, many are still friends nearly 10 years since I moved away from Utah. But I soon gave up having such discussions after it became apparent that being able to distinguish belief based evidence from empirically derived evidence was, for all intents and purposes, impossible for them. It was a learning experience for all of us. We simply avoided such discussions in the future. What I did take to heart however, was to never disparage their opinion of or belief in their deity (in front of them). I’ll say that is a very difficult task to do with the New Messiah – Rossi.

      • spacegoat

        May 28, 2013 at 4:48 am

        Fascinating Anonymole

        Brains are permanently wired for magic in childhood. No counter balance exists. State education is a dumbing down process, science curriculum is weak and almost worthless and the home environment is dominated by the idiot box.

        This is not to deny a spiritual universe, which does empirically exist. See Gopi Krishna’s writings for the evidence, especially his 1974 book “Higher Consciousness” which contains an introduction by Carl Friedrich von Weizsäcker professor of Life Sciences at the Max Planck institute in Germany.

        • quax

          May 28, 2013 at 6:55 am

          “Higher Consciousness” is a seriously strange book, isn’t it?

  11. blah43

    May 29, 2013 at 8:06 pm

    A full-spectrum check should be made on the power source to rule out a DC component in future tests. However, the cables feeding the experiment do not appear to be heavy enough to handle the current needed to create the observed heating. And if there was foul play, would they not have shown up as “red-hot” in the thermal imaging system? It seems unlikely that a hidden DC current was used.