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That Was eCatNews
November 26, 2012WordPress is trying to tell us something. Its increasing reluctance to post comments breaching the thousand-mark is preparing us for the inevitable.
My interest in the eCat and its progeny lay in its promise for the future. Now that I doubt Rossi’s claims to the point of near certainty, the subject does not deserve the work involved in keeping this blog alive. At one point in sight of a million visits a month, it is easy to see how money can be made from the dreams and wishes of good people. I now fear that underlying the smiles of a few key players, a dark heart beats and I refuse to follow popularity at the expense of truth. A key driver in my decision to start eCatNews lies at the feet of hard sceptics. Something did not fit. Surely if their conviction was genuine, they would not waste their lives working on a propaganda campaign trying to convince us all that Rossi was a fraud. It did not make sense. Rather than convince me of their point, their hard work and dedication looked suspicious. I wanted to shine a light into the darkest corners in the hope that we’d find something wondrous. That was not to be. I may be puzzled by such a negative pursuit but no longer conclude anything from it. Now, with scant hope of Rossi delivering on his promises, I find myself wondering why I would waste any more time on him. If he is committing fraud, he should be pursued by the police. Interest in the man or the subject is now relegated to the level of curiosity, not dedication.
Many people have asked me to switch my focus to the wider subject of LENR. Forced to share an arena with sharks and shysters, real scientists in this field are assaulted from all directions. Ordinary people, investors and politicians struggle to know who to believe or fall to the trap of believing anything that conforms to the world as they think it truly is. For what it’s worth, I think there is a place for a site independent of any particular faction and run on the basis of constructive scepticism. This is how science works. The core mission of such a site would be to lend credibility where it is due and highlight genuine and well-meaning criticism that might shape future experiments. Constructive criticism should not be confused with negativity. It is far harder to question a particular result in a helpful way than to echo whatever we are told. With that in mind, I have given serious thought to shifting my focus to www.lenr-news.com. However, by letting the conversation run without interference here, I can see that such an approach would not work. To be constructive and make a difference, I would have to police comments and take an assertive investigative stance. In other words, to make it work, the enterprise would become a major focus in my life and need funds. I am reluctant to do such a thing without help and have to balance that effort with other priorities.
While I have a keen interest in science and technology and truly believe that we will discover a way to tap clean and plentiful energy from the universe, I am also interested in the culture of trust and collaboration. The example of the MFMP is a shining beacon in the field of cold fusion and plaudits must go to Celani and others who are similarly open with their results. We see the power of such openness throughout the Net in the various open-source communities and in the actions of millions of carers around the world. Taking what I have learned here and through the Honesty Project, I want to explore ways of magnifying the efforts of millions of people working together in the spirit of enlightened self-interest – not just in a scientific endeavour but in an economic fight against austerity. The potential of such selfish collaboration is as powerful as any physical force we might seek to tap. This is not the forum to discuss that project but if anyone is interested in joining the discussion, email me at myfirstname at ecatnews.com.
For the above reasons and others, I will happily set up www.lenr-news.com if a small group steps forward to run it. Failing that, this is likely my last post open to comments. Unless events make a u-turn necessary, WordPress will decide when this ends. In that case, and in time, I will post a final word which will stand as a warning to anyone researching the term “eCat News”. Thank you for giving me your time. No matter what happens, I will continue to monitor the space. If anything changes or something happens that I feel you should know about, I will post it to the newsletter.
Paul
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Frank
February 5, 2013 at 7:20 pm
And here another slip of Rossi’s time-schedule:
Andrea Rossi
February 5th, 2013 at 3:09 AM
Dear Michele Dalessandro:
To make short a long story:
1- indipendent third party tests are in course, the publication will be probably made within February/March, indipendently from the results, on a scientific magazine after peer reviewing
2- we are manufacturing industrial plants, whose delivery is foreseen starting from March/April , together with our USA Partner
3- we are focusing on Hot Cats ( E-Cats at high temperature) fueled by electric power or gas
Warm Regards,
A.R.
Wasn’t a 1MW plant (open to “public” / selected visitors) promised for February?
Btw: Is the hot-cat fueled by electric power or gas a Freudian slip?
I remeber the earlier claims that the hot-cat is fueled by Nickel and Hydrogen
Thicket
February 6, 2013 at 1:45 pm
Not that anyone cares anymore, but the Defkalion website is open again.
There is no forum, surprise, surprise. Defkalion are soliciting interested parties (who have money). More surprise
Defkalion are located in the same Vancouver building as Coastal Views/Smart Point Research (Market Research), MD Analytics (Medical Market Research) and OnRes Systems (Vendor for an on-line travel reservation system).
Harry Perini
February 6, 2013 at 8:29 pm
Defkalion is back in business:
http://defkalion-energy.com/
John Milstone
February 6, 2013 at 9:33 pm
It’s worth noting that it’s been exactly one year since DGE promised to allow “7 well-known organizations” to do independent testing and freely publish their results.
Of course, there is still not a shred of evidence that any “well-known organization” ever tested the device. After a year of waiting, it’s safe to say that this was a lie.
Of course, all we have now is more totally unsubstantiated claims on a web site.
Why would anyone believe anything they say now when they have amply demonstrated that they lie?
Harry Perini
February 10, 2013 at 3:33 pm
1- we are working very strong to manufacture our plants. In our factories the work has never been so intense as it is in this period. Therefore the E-Cats, that soon will hit the market, will not fade, be sure. If there is around somebody saying the contrary, let them talk, while we work.
2- the report of the indipendent third party will be published, as I always said. Whatever the result
3- the efficiency and the convenience of the E-Cats is very simple to measure: the Customer looks how much energy consumes and how much energy produces: it is not difficult.
Warm regards
Andrea
John Milstone
February 10, 2013 at 4:40 pm
Yet more “Rossi Says” without a shred of evidence that any of it is true.
Rossi has been caught in a number of lies before (UniBo testing, NI building a controller, etc.), and has failed every time an independent group tried to test it (NASA, Swedish Standards Group).
Why in the world would anyone still believe him?
ts
February 10, 2013 at 5:13 pm
Well, go to sitelogic com , and you will see that both the remaining believer’s blog and Rossi’s jonp are both on life support as far as viewership numbers. It might be that viewership on those two is down to people who really believe or people who just want to be entertained by what fantastic claims are made next.
Al Potenza
February 10, 2013 at 8:29 pm
test3
dsm
February 11, 2013 at 9:36 pm
moved
JNewman
February 20, 2013 at 12:02 am
Looks like Quax’s site is gone too. Nothing left but the loony bin.
Frank
February 20, 2013 at 2:33 am
He moved his blog to another server:
http://wavewatching.net/fringe/
Quax
February 20, 2013 at 2:31 am
New location for the ECN back-up site.
Doug brought to my attention that he was no longer able to access hotandcoldfusion.wordpress.com.
This shouldn’t happen as I paid wordpress.com to forward to the new location.
If somebody else experiences the same problem, please let me know at quaxquax _@_ zoho.com (remove uderscores and spaces, just inserted them to prevent email harvesting).
kapytanhook
March 7, 2013 at 7:09 pm
Wow this comment section has really died down. But I know many of you will still be checking this.
Does anyone of you know if that quantumheat.org project is legitimate? I used to REALLY like what they are doing, they seem to even be making massive jumps on cold fusion progress.
Then all of a sudden i got hit with some worry.
- They never really seem to give out the 100% buildup of the celaniwire so in the end it is still a bit of a black box
- They have asked for donations
Now this could just be paranoia after all this Rossi scamming and lies,I would really like the input of you guys
Keep up the good work.
dsm
March 7, 2013 at 8:22 pm
-
Al Potenza
March 9, 2013 at 5:00 pm
Try also:
http://wavewatching.net/fringe
Many of the usual suspects from here are there. See for example:
http://wavewatching.net/fringe/a-new-creative-way-to-make-money-in-the-lenr-space/
NJT
March 25, 2013 at 9:24 pm
Rossi Reports Tests Concluded, Results Positive
This from Andrea Rossi on the Journal of Nuclear Physics.
DEAR GEORGEHANTS:
YOUR COMMENT IS IMPORTANT BECAUSE OPENS THE GATE FOR THE FOLLOWING INFORMATION:
THE TESTS OF THE THIRD INDIPENDENT PARTY HAVE BEEN COMPLETED YESTERDAY.
I DID NOT ATTEND, THEREFORE I DO NOT KNOW EXACTLY THE RESULTS, THAT WILL SURELY BE PUBLISHED BY THE EXAMINATORS, PROBABLY AROUND THE HALF OF APRIL. I MET THE 11 PROFESSORS AND EXPERTS THAT MADE THE TESTS AND THEY WERE VERY POSITIVE. ONE OF THEM TOLD ME ” WE GOT EVIDENCE THAT THE ‘ EFFECT’ IS REAL BEYOND ANY REASONABLE DOUBT”. I COULD NOT GET MORE INFORMATION, BECAUSE THEY NOW HAVE TO ELABORATE THE DATA TO PREPARE THE PUBLICATION. ALL THE PROFESSORS SAID THE TEST IS GONE WELL, VERY WELL. THE LAST TEST ENDED AFTER 120 HOURS OF UNINTERRUPTED OPERATION OF THE REACTORS ( THE NEW GENERATION OF HOT CATS IS MADE BY A TWO STAGE SYSTEM, MADE WITH AN ACTIVATOR WITH RESISTANCES COUPLED WITH A KIND OF CHARGE, WHICH ACTIVATES THE E-CAT WITH A DIFFERENT CHARGE). THE EFFECT IS STUNNING, WE SAW IN OUR PRIVATE TESTS, AND HAS BEEN REPLICATED BY THE THIRD INDIPENDENT PARTY.
NOW WE PASS TO THE INDUSTRIAL ENGAGEMENTS: WE HAVE TO DELIVER OUR PLANTS BY THE END OF APRIL.
WARM REGARDS,
ANDREA ROSSI
richard
March 26, 2013 at 5:01 am
Check out ecat world public tests are complete and will be published soon e cat is real!
Thicket
March 27, 2013 at 10:58 am
The only ‘evidence’ that there have been third party tests is ‘Rossi says’. He’s a pathological liar and fraud.
What happened to all the past ‘Rossi says’ statements that braindead true believers crowed about? I’ll tell you. Nothing happened.
You’re better off at the eCat World circle jerk along with the rest of the woo-woo nutters.
Frank
March 27, 2013 at 10:55 pm
My prediction what’s going to change when the so called “third party report” comes out: Nothing will happen – the report will be just a similar farce as we have seen from Rossi before.
Have you already forgotten how big the 1 MW plant public demonstration was announced two years ago, how it will transform the world – and what actually happened: Nothing!
(Btw: where now is the “secret colonel”, the one who signed off the test for “the customer” and who was later outed to be an “old buddy” of Rossi?)
Methusela
January 23, 2013 at 3:09 pm
LOOB for short.
I like it.
A new internet term is born.
RonB
January 23, 2013 at 3:26 pm
lol -
I love the levity and hate the attitudes. People just need to lighten up a bit.
credible evidence
Some evidence is that he’s got investors, enough to fund all these shenanigans. That in itself says something. You can call them all fools for believing enough to put up cold hard cash but what proof do you have they are fools?
JKW
January 23, 2013 at 3:12 pm
I wonder how long this site will hold without some level of moderation before it turns into a dump..
Methusela
January 23, 2013 at 5:46 pm
@ck:
I much prefer LOOB.
Hmm, that sounds so wrong…
Ransompw
January 24, 2013 at 12:57 am
B/4, are you sure it hasn’t already?
Al Potenza
January 24, 2013 at 6:25 pm
“Some evidence is that he’s got investors, enough to fund all these shenanigans. That in itself says something. You can call them all fools for believing enough to put up cold hard cash but what proof do you have they are fools?”
-
When someone won’t let you test their claims, you can’t prove they are scamming. But, based on their overall behavior, the nature of the claim, the significance of the claim, the expected development of the claim if it were real, and the amount of time which has passed, you can be pretty confident that Rossi is scamming.
PersonFromPorlock
January 24, 2013 at 7:31 pm
Unfortunately, investors have been gulled before so there’s no proof that having investors means anything either way.
John Milstone
January 24, 2013 at 9:02 pm
No, it really doesn’t.
Review any of the confirmed scammers we’ve discussed here before to see how easy it is to collect millions of dollars from “gullible” investors. Some notable examples:
Carl Tilley, who stole several millions from small “mom & pop” investors. (LINK, LINK)
Madison Priest, who stole over 10 million from such companies as Blockbuster Video, Intel and General Dynamics. (LINK)
John Keely, who back in the 1880s and 1890s, ran a scam that looks remarkably like Rossi’s. He sold stock and had several credible scientists claim that it was impossible for him to be “faking” his demos (just like Rossi, several “demos” but no independent tests). It was only after he died that his “laboratory” was torn apart and the gimmicks used to fake his results were discovered. Note that there are still some “True Believers” of Keely. (LINK)
I’m sure the others her can point out other examples.
123star
January 24, 2013 at 7:29 pm
@Al Potenza (January 24, 2013 at 6:25 pm)
Nice wording, Al!
RonB
January 24, 2013 at 7:54 pm
I’m confused. It seems that he did let the Swedish team try-before-they-buy.. right? They opted out and the word was that they just didn’t do the test right.
So there’s some evidence that he does let investors test before buying in.
So, it wouldn’t be insane to think that all the investors had the chance to test it first.
Personally I don’t think the investors are stupid, for one thing, they have enough money to take a chance with a large amount of cash. In my life experience, rich people are rarely so naive, they got rich because they are smart.
But, based on their overall behavior,
I’m starting to think that’s at the crux of this, and its really upsetting people that he won’t just give up his secrets and put this mystery to rest.
So, I’m back to the original question,
“what’s in it for him to risk giving up his secrets”? –
You might not think that some independent testing facility would steal his secrets but I have a feeling that for the last year, he was not willing to take that chance.
But there’s always the chance it’s just what it appears to be to so many.
dsm
January 24, 2013 at 8:24 pm
to: PersonFromPorlock
January 24, 2013 at 7:31 pm
It is how those investors are being brought into the operation. See my post below to RonB it applies equally to you.
.
DSM
dsm
January 24, 2013 at 8:21 pm
RonB
.
A simple set of questions that for me may answer your attitude to business & may help you think about it …
.
- Have you ever run a business or part of one, that had more than 25 employees ?
.
- Have you ever invested more than $US100K in any new venture ?
.
- Do you believe all the people investing in Rossi’s ‘agencies’ are ‘rich’ especially those being asked by Roger Green to buy $25,000 packets of investment ?
.
- Have you done any business education (i.e. MBA or accounting, or investment strategies etc: )
.
If you answer is no to all the above then I understand why you may not see anything odd about Rossi’s claims/agency activities. Because, the bottom line in any sane business is that there is a business before you sell (or buy into) an agency right to re-sell a product. Rossi has no produduct !. He only has a ‘dream’. Does this marketing factoid make sense to you ?. Rossi is in no position to offer agency reselling rights when he can’t demonstrate a market ready product – DGT found this out 2 years ago and 2 years later there is still no market ready product nor any indication of when there could be other than years into the future, at best !.
.
DSM
Jami
January 24, 2013 at 8:52 pm
I don’t think the typical Rossi licensee would test the ecat because they know it doesn’t work anyway. People like Adolf Schneider or Roger Green are into mugging people with Magnet Motors and Feng Shui gadgets. They’re just scammers themselves and I doubt they payed Rossi a single dollar. Think of them as his sales force who sell sublicenses in small portions to gullible moms and pops who read about it on e-catworld and think they’re on their way to riches.
What is in it for Rossi giving up his secrets? How about wealth and fame (both beyond anything we can imagine)?
P.S. that would only apply if his secrets would concern having invented a working LENR reactor, obviously. We all know that the only thing in it for Rossi giving up his REAL secrets is another couple of years in prison.
John Milstone
January 24, 2013 at 9:11 pm
The version I heard was that one of his “partners” (HydroFusion) was trying to negotiate a deal, and their potential investor insisted on an independent test. They then demanded Rossi allow it (i.e. it probably wasn’t his idea). The independent testers did perform tests, which failed to show any excess energy, so the investors walked away.
After the story broke, Rossi made some nasty comments about how the Swedish National Standards Testing agency didn’t know how to perform a test. I suppose if you’re going to take Rossi’s word over that of the Swedish Standards Bureau (as well as NASA, Quantum, National Instruments, the University of Bologna, etc.), then this might make sense to you.
The fact that the Swedes supposedly finished their testing in only an hour suggests that they figured out Rossi’s trick, and didn’t have to see any more. But that’s just my interpretation of the alleged events.
Ransompw
January 24, 2013 at 9:02 pm
DSM:
If Rossi was licensing a real product that was ready for market and it did what he says it will be able to do, the value of the licenses would be measured in the billions not the 100′s of thousands.
If on the other hand he is licensing the possibility of a product in the future and discloses the expected time frame ( and the possibility is fairly remote ), the value of the license is probably about what they are selling for.
John Milstone
January 24, 2013 at 9:19 pm
Ransompw’s latest delusion is that Rossi has been lying publicly, but privately he’s informing each and every investor (including the sub-franchisees) of each and every lie, so that makes is OK.
This is laughable.
I seriously doubt that this is a valid legal defense (I would ask a lawyer, but I don’t know of any competent ones, at least not here), and it certainly brings into question the integrity of this multiply-convicted criminal.
In reality, what Rossi is asking for is right in line with what earlier con men asked for their fake inventions. Just a few posts up, I (again) listed several of the more well-known con men who managed to collect millions from gullible investors, a few $10K at a time.
Frank
January 24, 2013 at 9:41 pm
Ransom, did you never read this contract proposal ?
http://shutdownrossi.com/rossis-partners-investors/e-cat-australia-roger-green/contract-with-andrea-rossi/
“Current delivery of the e-cat 1MW unit by the Licensor to the Licensee or the Licensee’s agent or End User is 4 (four) months from order date”
(The “spec” of the 1MW unit is attached)
Do you suggest that every thing Rossi says in public about his “products” and beeing in the market (e.g. in the Zurich meeting) doesn’t count?
RonB
January 24, 2013 at 9:36 pm
Rossi has no produduct
It’s ok to say I think the product that he’s offering (the 1MW plant) doesn’t work but just to say “he doesn’t have a product”.. what’s with that?
Rich and famous? I can assure you that if he really has a product he will be rich and famous. It will be on his own terms and timing and not that of people who demand things from him.
There’s also a chance that those secrets can be ripped off from him and he winds up with nothing.
As for his constant dialog on the web, it well could be that he wants the world to know that he’s working on something and if he goes missing at least people will wonder what happened to him and his gadgets.. You see what I mean?
The saga continues lol
LCD
February 6, 2013 at 4:17 pm
You continue to be a first rate moron jm. I would never say its easy to get millions in investment.
Ransompw
January 24, 2013 at 10:21 pm
Frank:
I am saying exactly that. Anything Rossi says in public is of absolutely no consequence if in private the information to the licesees and investors is different. The peanut gallery is of absolutely no importance and what we know is of no importance and what he tells us is of no importance.
Now if what we know is exactly what he is telling the licensees and investors, I would be mightily concerned if I were them, which I am not. I would want some resolution to the waiting game and some confirmation by independent sources of his devices. The longer it goes without such resolution the more worried I’d get. Got it?
dsm
January 24, 2013 at 10:27 pm
(repeated as1st copy seems to have dropped into the wrong place ? – this blog may be about to lock up ?)
In reply to RonB,
.
I rest my case.
.
Cheers
.
DSM
.
To RansomPW –
the one thing I agree with is that if Rossi had a market ready product that did what he said it truly would be worth billions, but there is a snag. A patent that protects ip & that is why Stremmenos & Rossi are both going ballistic at the EPO (who thank god, are immune to Rossi rants).
.
Rossi’s toys are only worth billions if the people putting up the billions are sure the ip is protected. For that to happen Rossi needs to be able to explain it but he has not been able to thus far.
.
DSM
John Milstone
January 24, 2013 at 11:29 pm
Tell that to the CEO of Facebook who got in trouble with the SEC for releasing accurate sales information in a tweet, rather than through official channels.
http://money.cnn.com/2012/12/07/technology/netflix-facebook-sec/index.html
Ransompw, you’ve managed to lower my opinions of all lawyers, which is quite a trick!
Ransompw
January 24, 2013 at 10:46 pm
Milstone:
You are hillarious. You sit back on your computer and pretend you know about things you are not in privity to know. Rossi may have told all of his licensees any number of things. Who knows. What I do know is the amounts being paid for the licenses are so small, either thoses paying understand that the risks are enormous and thus the price is hugely discounted or they are beyond stupid, in which case they are also beyond help.
If it is a scam, it won’t be the last and a fool and his money are soon parted. Which means these poor saps would have likely been scammed by someone else.
Again, I am in no way supporting Rossi. I have already said on the record that I have virtually no hope in seeing something come out of his escapade. That being said, I am not a know it all like you and will thus be content to wait and see what the future holds.
dsm
January 24, 2013 at 10:56 pm
2nd go (blog has gone wild !)
RansomPW
.
Your points about what Rossi tells ‘investors’ come across with the same lucidity that poor ‘Gary Wright’ justifies lying about his sources on his blog.
.
Ransom – ROSSI does not tell all investors everything other than through JoNP !. It is Roger Green & his peers who talk to ‘investors’ and we have all seen the documents he is using to back up requests for funds.
.
He will talk differently to big money people (if they trust his ip) but we here are focussing in on his dealings with agency ‘investors’ which is via Green etc:
.
Some of us here do learn as we go, it seems to me some others of of us are incapable of learning anything.
.
DSM
Al Potenza
January 24, 2013 at 11:19 pm
Blaming the victims, now? Is that good legal ethics, Ransom?
John Milstone
January 24, 2013 at 11:33 pm
This may be the first intelligent thing you’ve posted here. Yes, people are scammed all the time. And Rossi’s circus looks exactly like hundreds of other, simillar scams.
And your callus disregard for honest but gullible people really does speak to your personality.
You’re obviously an embarrassment to your profession). And you’re showing yourself to be an unworthy human being.
Methusela
January 24, 2013 at 10:59 pm
@All (including Al):
This entire thread is just so old.
As the bibble and Shakeyspeare once writed (paraphrased):
“You got nothing new to say? STFU already.”
Al Potenza
January 24, 2013 at 11:20 pm
Meth, you really should address those remarks to Defkalion and Rossi. Nothing but claims in two years *really* gets old.
dsm
January 25, 2013 at 1:44 am
Info:
.
For anyone who wanted to know what was in the new Piantelli patent filed in early 2012, it was published at end of last year (2012) …
.
http://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf;jsessionid=ABF05125C1ACAFD575FE2285160A1FD1.wapp1?docId=WO2012147045&recNum=1&maxRec=1&office=&prevFilter=&sortOption=&queryString=FP%3A%28piantelli%29&tab=PCTDescription
.
NOTE: The above is NOT the patent Piantelli just had granted – that one AFAICT is here (date 2010) …
http://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/WO2010058288
.
Piantelli has IIRC filed 3 LENR patents and has now been granted 2 of them.
.
DSM
JKW
January 25, 2013 at 8:46 am
Nothing matters any more, DSM. This is the end.
Al Potenza
January 25, 2013 at 5:29 pm
The end of what? Is there a new Mayan prediction?
John Milstone
January 25, 2013 at 5:51 pm
We’re transitioning from “Phase 2″ to “Phase 3″.
Phase 1 is where the True Believers are confident that the con man is legitimate, and denigrates anyone who disagrees with them as “psycho-skeptics” and other insults.
Phase 2 is where the True Believers realize that the con man is most likely a con man, and they start making comments like “I think this is now unlikely, but I’m willing to wait and see.” They continue to call anyone who disagrees with them insulting names.
Phase 3 is where they finally accept that their hero is nothing but a con man and they start looking for the next con man to “Believe In”. Meanwhile, they complain that the skeptics were right “too early” and that makes them evil.
Rinse and repeat with each new scam.
JKW
January 26, 2013 at 12:10 am
@Al Potenza
The end of ECN, of course. The world will carry on at least until next cycle of Mayan calendar is over
There seems to be a pattern, though, as to where new posts land now. Everything works fine above Meth’s ingenious comment. If you either post a new comment or reply to one above it, it lands before Meth’s mental product, even with proper hierarchy for replies. Meth will be known as the guy who brought ECN down. Or maybe it was Kirky, whose post seems to have disappeared altogether. Congrats.
Bigwilly
January 25, 2013 at 6:04 pm
Interesting phase structure.
I dont know if this is a phase or part of one, but my impression is there is a time where the believers will be like
“Ofcourse it is a scam! Everyone already knew this! Your reasons for thinking it was a scam however where not to my liking. Only mine are”
BW
Quax
January 25, 2013 at 8:13 pm
The order in which posts appear seem to be completely arbitrary now. Maybe time to jump ship to the back-up site?
Jami
January 25, 2013 at 8:34 pm
Quax, maybe you should kick it off with an occasional news snippet. Not that anybody really cares and the whole thing always drifts away after two or three posts anyway – but it sort of keeps things going (or, in your case, gets them started) better than simply providing a platform.
Bigwilly
January 25, 2013 at 9:26 pm
New site time me thinks
Quax
January 26, 2013 at 3:43 am
Jami, not much of a news snippet but at least a new thread
NJT
January 26, 2013 at 4:00 am
Agreed, this place is going nowhere fast with the same-o’s saying the same-o things – REALLY BORING!
I was here when this blog was first started and shortly thereafter was hijacked by the same-o’s bunch you see in these posts.
Shut down this blogsite and let these same-o idiot’s get some sleep – they apparently need it!
ts
January 26, 2013 at 5:30 am
There has probably never been anything of reproducible scientific merit to discuss in LENR from the beginning. That’s why when Rossi came along so many people jumped on his bandwagon: because he gave them hope. That’s why so many people believe everything Rossi says and ignore all evidence to the contrary. Hope can really shield people from reality when it comes to LENR.
Frank
January 26, 2013 at 9:11 am
I see the tone of the comments from the (earlier) Rossi believers get even more aggressive.
I guess that’s because they get more and more frustrated by the (no-) news BS from their Guru, like that one:
Al Potenza
January 26, 2013 at 7:29 am
@ts
I totally agree with you. I now think the field is entirely populated by bullshitters. See y’awl on Quax’s site.
Methusela
January 26, 2013 at 8:59 am
Hurrah.
Potenza’s gone to the pseud’s site too.
Excellent.
Methusela
January 26, 2013 at 4:21 pm
They aren’t arbitary.
Figure it out, you pseudo intellectual creep.
JNewman
January 26, 2013 at 4:24 pm
No doubt you have some redeeming qualities, Meth. It’s just that you hide them extremely effectively.
John Milstone
January 26, 2013 at 4:49 pm
Meth having any redeeming qualities is even less likely than Rossi having a working LENR device.
Methusela
January 26, 2013 at 4:59 pm
JNewman and John:
I do have some qualities.
Whereas, you both have no qualities at all.
You have never paraded along quality street, ever.
You spend most of your time mincing along pseud street.
JNewman
January 26, 2013 at 6:32 pm
There must be something you can contribute to humanity besides insults. Or perhaps that’s all there is to you. Meanwhile, I will most certainly continue mincing along pseud street, as soon as I decipher what that is supposed to mean.
RonB
January 26, 2013 at 10:21 pm
Boys boys behave.
I have to say Methusela makes me laugh.
I could almost hear the “Mr. Burns” impression when he posted “Excellent”.
I wonder what ever happened with the AP reporters story? Did we ever even hear if the guy was on the fence or ummmm… you know, one of the other two?
Asterix
January 28, 2013 at 6:34 am
Mr. Rossi evidently is unfamiliar with the music of Charles Ives…
Thicket
January 28, 2013 at 3:38 pm
My recollection is that nothing happened. The AP reporter showed up at Rossi’s circus act but never reported anything. As to why that is, I guess it’s up to each individual’s imagination.
JNewman
January 31, 2013 at 6:25 pm
Over in fantasyland, they are anointing your post, Thicket, as the last ever to appear here. Is it?
Bigwilly
January 31, 2013 at 6:46 pm
No control F abilities I surmise.
I cant make fun though because I dont know how to use RSS Feeds.
BW
JKW
February 1, 2013 at 1:42 am
The last plea to the Admin
Paul, if you still care about the legacy of this site, could you please do one of the two:
1) Let us enjoy it for another month or two. Just delete the posts that are displayed down starting from “Methusela Reply January 23, 2013 at 3:09 pm”.
This is where ECN broke. Anyone posting a new comment will have it immediately above it it. Anyone replying to a post below this one will appear somewhere down the bottom. This is the place where the referential integrity broke.
2) Shut down the forum with a last concluding article.
Just don’t let it die in an agony. Your site was a bastion of sanity and deserves better than this chaotic end.
Frank
February 1, 2013 at 6:22 am
Yes, there supposed to be some “excitement” within the next two month – since Rossi has promised a “real working 1MW” plant to be set in operation by a non-military customer in this month.
I’m curious how Rossi and his fans/associates will explain the reasons why no ordinary people will be able to check/test that plant.
So, let’s stay tuned. – If the admin doesn’t fix the issue with the messed up sequence of the comments, there is still a small chance that the comments gets in order again when a new page of comments starts.
JKW
February 2, 2013 at 7:17 pm
Guys, the action has apparently moved now to Quax’s backup site: http://hotandcoldfusion.wordpress.com
See you there!
dsm
February 4, 2013 at 10:11 pm
To Frank – February 1, 2013 at 6:22 am
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Rossi is always promising ‘excitement’ – he has kept doing it for 2 years now and still has a lot of folk buzzing. So when Feb ends, we can be assured that Rossi will be promising more ‘excitement’ that matures in mid year ‘for certain’ and ‘at last’, until mid year has come and gone then he will reveal that by Oct he will have a ‘real’ live customer etc: etc: etc: etc: etc:
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Cheers
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DSM
Frank
February 5, 2013 at 6:29 pm
No surprise – here are Rossi’s latest delays:
Andrea Rossi
February 5th, 2013 at 1:19 PM
Dear Broenink:
The third party indipendent validation tests have been funded directly by some of the Universities ( not Italian) which are making the tests. All the expenses for instrumentation, men hours, hotel, restaurants, taxi etc have been paid indipendently by the Entities who are making the indipendent validation. This is the reason why
1- the report will be published indipendently from the results
2- we cannot know anything of the date of the publication
3- we do not know where the publication will be made
4- we do not know exactly when the tests, that are still in the making, will be finished. Lately I have been informed that more tests will be made to be sure of the results, repeating again the tests.
5- we can assist to the tests, but we cannot make any operation during the tests.
6- the reason for which all these scientists are making these tests and for which their Universities are paying the expenses is merely scientific
Thank you for your questions,
Warm Regards,
A.R.
Ransompw
February 5, 2013 at 10:30 pm
Not new, that is what he said a month ago.
Frank
February 5, 2013 at 11:53 pm
… and probably the same he will say again next month.
http://www.cruisingdaytona.com/ebimage/LAT/1094.jpg
dsm
February 7, 2013 at 9:24 pm
As said over 12 months ago.
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Andrea Rossi is the genius behind the ‘MañanaCat’. It does anything you want, exactly as you would want, costs as little as you want, generates as much heat as you want. Can power houses, boats, planes, rockets, you name it.
.
When can I get one ? – easy, the answer never changes …
.
manyana
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DSM
dsm
February 7, 2013 at 10:10 pm
Here is the tried & true formula for Rossi’s endless ‘enthusiasm’ cycles.
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1) Rossi says (without being asked) that he has ‘validation/certification’ about to be performed in the next 2-3 months & he usually says by xxx date. That becomes the ‘gospel’.
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2) Rossi ‘believers’, the naive, the inexperienced, the dreamers, accept that this is for real & some are ready to blast any naysayers
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3) The date approaches & typically orgiastic excitement builds among those who believe. But close to the deadline Rossi begins adding qualifiers & over-riders leading to ‘possible’ delays
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4) The date passes with nothing being delivered (just as so many deadlines already have passed over the past 2 years of this ‘game’)
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5) The believers then wait for Rossi to pronounce the next deadline & the whole saga repeats itself yet again.
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Those who feed off this sorry spectacle are satisfied as always (so many orgasms in such short cycles). Some brush off accusations that Rossi doesn’t speak honestly as just Rossi setting out to confuse his competitors (but others of us are quite sure we know who the really confused ones are).
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So let us pre-empt Rossi & say the Feb deadline has slipped & now it will be mid 2013
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DSM
Ransompw
February 8, 2013 at 3:12 am
Why establish any deadline, just ignore anything Rossi says and assume nothing will happen.
Frank
February 9, 2013 at 8:56 am
Yes, just extend the deadline for Rossi eternally, then the “believers” may keep on their dreams forever and will never need to self-confess that their harsh attacks on sceptics – e.g. on Krivit – were wrong
Wasn’t this comment, which you wrote more than a year ago, a kind of deadline for Rossi?
John Milstone
February 9, 2013 at 11:44 am
LOL!
Thanks for reminding us that the True Believers (even the ones who keep claiming to be “sitting on the fence”) keeps redrawing their line in the sand in order to avoid admitting that they’ve been had.
Ransompw, since you defined 28 November 2011 as “put up or shut up” time, why did you not shut up then?
Frank
February 10, 2013 at 12:59 pm
In the same context hereunder an one year old list, which Rossi affirmed to be his “roadmap” for 2012 .
Just compare yourself the goals for 2012 with what Rossi actually has delivered in 2012 … and you will get an idea of what you may expect for 2013.
Gediminas January 31st, 2012 at 7:34 AM:
Dear Andrea Rossi
Reading Your answers in blog and interviews in internet I created preliminary schedules of You main works for 2012
1. 2012 March, April – start of improved 1 Mw plant.
2. 2012 from February till November – building of robotized plant for E cats.
3. 2012 November – test production for 10 kw home Ecats.
4. 2012 December – successful start of sales 10 kw home Ecats.
Andrea Rossi January 31st, 2012 at 9:31 AM:
Dear Gediminas,
With the help of God yes, that is the roadmap.
Warm Regards,
A.R.
Al Potenza
February 10, 2013 at 8:27 pm
God didn’t help, silly person!
dsm
February 10, 2013 at 10:49 pm
Also just to help those who still can’t reconcile Rossi’s lack of delivery to their conviction he has a working eCat.
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It is a reasonable consensus to believe or even assume (despite lack of proofs) that Rossi did obtain some anomalous heat from his 1st eCat in Oct 2007 & his later ones. A lot of normally credible people with strong credentials believe this to be the case.
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The most likely scenario is that just like Piantell, Rossi got his eCat ‘device’ to produce anomalous heat. He may even have produce more than Piantelli had. The kindest evidence in Rossi’s favor though, is …
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1) that he never understood this effect (his patent was quite inadequate in describing it)
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2) That he could never adequately reproduce it (consistently or predictably)
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3) That he made big mistakes in measuring it (there is a lot of evidence to support this notion)
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This leads to an inescapable conclusion that Rossi has been for 5 years desperately trying to find someone who will solve his big problems for him. But in the real world, most scientists want to solve this type of problem for themselves. The logic here is why make Rossi the hero when he could not progress the device much further than Piantelli had ?. It is published that Rossi refused to acknowledge Piantelli’s work (from an interview) & Rossi flatly refuses to admit he had Prof Focardi asking Piantelli for answers to problems he was grappling with that only Piantelli really understood. Piantelli wrote a letter about this Focardi betrayal in Jan 2010.
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Rossi may justify in his mind his repeated delays in proving what he has but perhaps always delays in the hope some ‘partner’ is going to make it work the way he can’t.
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Also it seems to me that Rossi appears to have adopted a parallel strategy that he will keep looking for someone with ‘scientific credibility’ who may for whatever reasons, decide to validate Rossi’s claims, but thus far he hasn’t found such a person willing to be that bold. i.e. If scientist A won’t validate it, I’ll try B & if he won’t I’ll try C, then D then E then F until I hopefully find a compliant ‘credible scientist’ who will.
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Isn’t it interesting that neither Kullander’s nor Essen’s institutes will scientifically sign off on Rossi’s eCat (they offered to do a validation but Rossi then withdrew !!! (go figure)). But both these scientists still say they believe there is anomalous heat but that it needs full scientific analysis to determine what it is and where it really comes from.
.
So believers may at best be right in believing in anomalous heat from Rossi’s eCats, but remain naive in believing Andrea Rossi understands it or has control of it.
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DSM
General Zaroff
February 11, 2013 at 12:18 am
“This leads to an inescapable conclusion that Rossi has been for 5 years desperately trying to find someone who will solve his big problems for him.”
I thought the inescapable conclusion was that Rossi is a con-man.
You seem to hold a similar belief in the whole Papp sham too: that underneath there is something to it, it just needs a little work. The technology just needs to be refined by someone else, the gas mixture is just not quite right….. etc.
The truth is Rossi has spent the last 5 years building a lie. It is that simple DSM.
John Milstone
February 11, 2013 at 1:12 am
Perhaps Rossi started with a real, but small and uncontrollable LENR reaction, and built a huge scam on top of that.
However, there are hundreds of examples of con men making up their “inventions” from whole cloth. I doubt you could find a single example of someone starting with a real, revolutionary discovery and then building a fraudulent business on top of it.
Rossi fits the classic con man mold perfectly. There is no need to credit him with the slightest bit of honesty or real discovery to explain him. The fact that a few “experts” fell for his scam is not at all unusual in the world of “free-energy” or “high-tech” scams.
A great example of a Rossi-esque con from over a century ago is John Worrell Keely. Rossi’s con is amazingly like Keely’s:
http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/keely/keely.htm
dsm
February 11, 2013 at 2:18 am
Zaroff
.
I was being soooo kind to the believers
.
Fact is, I do believe Piantelli was able to demonstrate a small (very), amount of anomalous heat from his years of research. So if I believe that, it is easy to conclude that that Rossi by copying Piantelli, may have been able to replicate Piantelli’s efforts, they try to hijack them.
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By the way, WTF has Papp go to do with this thread about Rossi & Piantelli ? – stick to the topic at hand my friend or is that beyond you LOL
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DSM
dsm
February 11, 2013 at 9:39 pm
To John Milstone – February 11, 2013 at 1:12 am
– then it will be June etc: etc: etc: )
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That Keely link really is a must read for everyone. It describes a story that could equally apply to Josef Papp almost as accurately as it may be describing Andrea Rossi’s current behavior and actions.
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What ‘believers’ never seem to want to discuss about Rossi’s current behavior is him gathering millions from investors (Japan agency being the last big sell off) for the so called country agency rights to sell a device he hasn’t yet invented but has only talked about (the 10KW home eCat). Not one of these investors can get to see a ‘home eCat’, only hear about it.
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Everytime anyone has asks Rossi on his JoNP blog, about the Japan acency being sold off via Roger Green, the post gets deleted. !.
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The above thus paints a picture of people who only hear what they want to and close their minds and eyes to the obvious problems such as why Rossi keeps delaying and yet keeps taking money from ‘investors’.
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Our good friend RansomPW is now likely to chime in, as is his want, with a claim such as “there is no ‘real proof’ Rossi has taken money from ‘agency investors’” or “no one can present any proof Rossi doesn’t have what he claims’ etc: etc: etc:
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Other followers of the eCat saga have already found ways to reconcile Rossi’s “miss-speaking of the truth” as being justified (truly !). They say Rossi has a right to confuse his competitors by “miss-speaking about his claims” (LOL) !.
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The other thing that Rossi supporters / believers seem to not grasp, is that Rossi is the one constantly making the noise, the claims, the at times outrageous statements & remarks, the accusations, the setting of dates for validation that then pass. It isn’t his so called competitors !.
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It is laughable to read comments by believers who claim Rossi should be left to get on with his experiments because it is none other than Rossi himself who blasts all the noisy fanfares to the world, almost daily, about what he promises including donating to children’s cancer research !.
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As we can all see, the story rolls on. The Feb deadline is about to pass (I think it is now March ? – anyone know for sure ?
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Enjoy my friends !, there is little else to do other than yawn when not laughing at the never ending saga.
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DSM
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PS Paul Moller via Moller International recently (Jan 2013) issued a press release that he has a joint-venture partner & will soon start manufacturing ‘Skycars’ in China – ROTFLMAO – he must have read about Rossi’s Japan eCat agency sell off and decided his skycars were still good for a few more years and investors dollars – if Rossi can do it so can he (or is it the other way around) – LOL.
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http://www.kcra.com/news/Joint-venture-announced-to-produce-Skycars/-/11797728/18274832/-/33b45c/-/index.html
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PPS To Mr Zaroff – You have never understood the points I have made about Papp & events surrounding him. You repeatedly try to misconstrue my position as believing in Papp’s engine and you *never* post a remark by me saying so because I have *never* made one. Trying to debate this with you is simply a dead loss as there is no integrity in your remarks.
Quax
February 20, 2013 at 2:33 am
New location for the ECN back-up site.
Doug brought to my attention that he was no longer able to access hotandcoldfusion.wordpress.com.
This shouldn’t happen as I paid wordpress.com to forward to the new location.
If somebody else experiences the same problem, please let me know at quaxquax _@_ zoho.com (remove uderscores and spaces, just inserted them to prevent email harvesting).
kapytanhook
March 7, 2013 at 7:16 pm
(Sorry for the doublepost but something went wrong, WordPress does not seem to want to sort this by date properly anymore, also i see i missed a lot of messages this way)
Wow this comment section has really died down. But I know many of you will still be checking this.Does anyone of you know if that quantumheat.org project is legitimate? I used to REALLY like what they are doing, they seem to even be making massive jumps on cold fusion progress.
Then all of a sudden i got hit with some worry.
- They never really seem to give out the 100% buildup of the celaniwire so in the end it is still a bit of a black box
- They have asked for donations
Now this could just be paranoia after all this Rossi scamming and lies,I would really like the input of you guys
Keep up the good work.
dsm
March 7, 2013 at 8:24 pm
To: kapytanhook
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Read the home page. Site is essentially deceased.
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Try Quax’s alternate site.
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D