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eCat EU Patent Rejection – Updated

October 29, 2012

Update – As though to head off any accusations about a cold fusion block at the EU Patent Office, Piantelli has been informed that his patent will be granted. This appears to have happened in August of this year but it is interesting to note that Rossi’s patent (referred to as WO2009125444) was cited within the Piantelli records under the label ‘examination’). It appears that the reference was submitted by a ‘third party’ to be cited in Piantelli’s application. The list of docs is here. While all of this says nothing about the veracity of Piantelli’s claim, it does cut the knees from any argument Rossi might have about cf prejudice. [With thanks to Ivan Mohorovicic in eCatNews comments]

End of Update.

Reports that Rossi’s EU patent is being considered appear to be grossly misleading. While technically true, the application is in a critical condition with the prognosis for survival poor.  A letter and its annex has been sent from the EU Patent Examiner [To Leonardo Corp] requesting more detail/proof of the claims and indicate rejection unless they are forthcoming.

You can download the files from the EU Patent Register here [Files of note are both dated 19 10 2012 and are communications from the Examining Division to Leonardo Corp]

Here is a snapshot of the letter:

The main detail is contained in the Annex. In my opinion, this is not an example of cold fusion being treated unfairly but a true reflection of the quality presented by Rossi to the patent office. The reasons for potential rejection are specific and reasonable. Patents are granted to encourage innovation and must contain enough detail for a skilled individual to build the device or at least test its veracity. That is clearly not the case here.


The following is one page from the Annex:

I encourage you to read the full document.

Posted by on October 29, 2012. Filed under Drama,Rossi. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

309 Responses to eCat EU Patent Rejection – Updated

  1. Tony

    October 31, 2012 at 11:10 pm

    Andrea Rossi
    October 31st, 2012 at 4:13 PM
    Dear Tom Conover:
    We always maintained the scheduling we said and we always did what we said we should have done.
    Warm Regards,

    Then when you did what you should have done when you said you would do it, why was nothing done?

    Reminds me of the Abbott and Costello “Who’s on first” routine.


    • Auenland

      October 31, 2012 at 11:55 pm

      I just wanted to post this incredible answer here.
      For those who have not read the question, here it is:

      tom conover
      October 31st, 2012 at 1:47 PM

      Dear Mr. Rossi,

      Thank you for the exciting news about the sale of a hot cat plant, and also for the internal ecat validation report. I know it is not in your control when a third party report will be published, but you must have emailed or phoned the third party as any business person would have to obtained a recent statement from this party as to their latest estimate of a release date for this report. When do they think this report will be produced? If they haven’t checked with them lately, will you please do so for us? Many are saying “delay, promise, delay, new date, delay, new date” and while I personally think great progress is being made, should I continue to plan on this tech becoming available for “We the PEOPLE” within perhaps 2 – 5 years or so?

      The idiot from Forbes is getting under my skin with his sarcasm, and there appears to be a possibly very very long time remaining to wait before the e-cat is vindicated, can you think of any way to soothe this angst? I will continue to believe, because I want to, and even because I must.

      Sometimes, though, all it takes is one tiny mustard seed to move a mountain!

      I hopefully await a reply from you, kind sir. Regardless, keep up the good work.

      Warm regards,

      Tom Conover

      And then this answer:

      Andrea Rossi
      October 31st, 2012 at 4:13 PM

      Dear Tom Conover:
      We always maintained the scheduling we said and we always did what we said we should have done.
      Warm Regards,

      Wow! Rossi seems to me like the prototype of a cold blooded liar.

  2. GreenWin

    October 31, 2012 at 11:56 pm

    Since it is All Hallowed Eve here on the west coast, I’d like to wish you all a joyful Halloween. That include our favorite uber-skep Al. Following this saga must be entertaining for most, else why hang out here? True skeps have the Amazing Randy, and law enforcement types can frequent bunko squad sites.

    The fact you all keep coming back indicates an appetite for this material. And between characters like Popee, the Generale, Al, Goat, etc., it’s a great way to have a little fun. BTW, the rumor that Rossi and Co is an elaborate front/diversion – is untrue. It’s not that elaborate. 🙂

    Happy Halloween! IGZ-2013 The Dead will Rise

    • daniel maris

      November 1, 2012 at 8:46 am

      Please accept a curse from the UK on your export of such a tiresome and joyless festival. 🙂

      • CuriousChris

        November 2, 2012 at 2:11 am

        I second this motion

  3. dsm

    November 1, 2012 at 12:12 am

    Time to move on again – this story is worse that trying to analyze in detail, degree by degree, each rotation of a tumble drier & what it means & what progress has been made – LOL

    • spacegoat

      November 1, 2012 at 1:10 am


    • Dale G. Basgall

      November 1, 2012 at 3:11 am

      Well dsm you could go and follow truth, the rest of the exciting turn of events in earth happenings.

      Like oil leaks in all the old lines that is saturating lands by the hour on top of the ground.

      Presidential elections, people dying from freezing and buildings falling down from the hurricane Sandy.

      How about the people where you live? How many are out on the streets, no one want’s that, so why not bury our heads in this exciting possibility of Mr. Rossi getting rich from hot air, and black ink! Like an ostritch in the sand. Wheres the Dick Smith saviors of the people here that need help to live and eat.

      No let’s just spend a few more billion to send our troops to battle over oil. It’s ok dsm this is a safe avenue site to forget the real world.

      • spacegoat

        November 1, 2012 at 4:08 am


        The stakes you described being so high is precisely why I believe Rossi is either a scammer or an insensitive (see Voodo’s comments above) and counter-productive money grubber.

        He would earn much more with different strategy and currently risks to be left with crumbs because :

        1.Piantelli has good patents
        2.Judging by the boiler photos’ his “new fire” development on top of Piantelli, is as easy to produce as fire, meaning patenting a Piantelli enhancement, if allowed by Patent Offices, is open to anybody.
        3.No country will risk its energy supply by outsourcing it to Rossi. As soon as they can they will develop it nationally and tax Rossi’s stuff.

    • GreenWin

      November 1, 2012 at 6:59 am

      Returning from a wonderful Halloween evening, (a bit tipsy?) I have to admit. Should I have to select a man with unparalleled loyalty to a cause – it is dsm.

      A dryer rotates 360 degrees, then begins again. A full cycle. Thanks for thoughtful contribution here.

      IGZ-2013 Plenty for Everyone

      • dsm

        November 1, 2012 at 7:53 am

        Cheers mate – she’ll be right in the long run. Just chuck another prawn (shrimp) on the Barbie LOL

  4. Voodoo

    November 1, 2012 at 7:51 am

    After one year, things make sense:

    One year back Benjamin Fulford wrote that on secret meeting of elites was decided, that Free Energy technologies will be allowed, but in a way that will not harm existing businesses. I laughed much, because there’s no way that would not damage the status quo of the old business.

    And now with the depreciation of publishing validation, it is becoming clear: the mysterious U.S. partner must sell & complete until spring / summer 2013 a ton of old-fashioned obsolete tech orders. So publish validation is simply not permitted.

    Old businesses will be about 1 gram less damaged. Fulford was right. A glory for new tech !

  5. Voodoo

    November 1, 2012 at 9:18 am

    Title: how our small country will suffer fatal losses
    In our small country is ongoing tender for the completion of the nuclear power plant in the volume some 300 billion CZK (16 billion USD) for state majority owned big company which will be decided in the spring / summer 2013. Until now I was in comfort, because everything seemed to be right.
    Rossi publicly announced “we need 2-3 months for some tests etc”. O.K. our government officials can learn through official channels that old-fashioned nuclear powerplants are obsolete and outdated by Rossi’s superior technology.

    But now the situation is such that by summer 2013, no one officially know that giving 300 billion to obsolete technologies are a waste of money. For our small country it will have fatal consequences, fatal damages. I cannot sit idly as our beautiful small country is destroyed by artificial silence and one consequently wrong decision of our officers.

    Dr. Rossi, I have to ask You the question: If I’ll alert our officers that Your technology is superior and nuke plant for 300 billion is fatal mistake, our officers will not take me seriously, because there was not official news, not official validation.

    If I challenge our officers to inquire of You whether Your technology is real, you are willing to answer them or you keep silent ?

    • Dale G. Basgall

      November 1, 2012 at 4:11 pm

      Voodoo your missing the point regarding “old fission reactors”. They were never designed to produce energy, the goal was tritium to fuel the bombs to kill like no other. In fact the old understanding and saying was “kill more for less”, we are numbered. We can kill a whole village when with a little more effort it goes nuclear… and takes out miles.

      In addition with the dry storages at the sites now we have enough bad stuff to take out the world, and that’s already stored and we are running out of Uranium fast, check it out for yourself, maybe 50 years left at best and then where are they going to find it, Mars?

  6. Tony

    November 1, 2012 at 2:38 pm

    November 1st, 2012 at 4:51 AM
    Dear Andrea Rossi
    1. Is it possible for any company now to buy 1MW hot cat?
    2. How did you choose the first company you will install 1MW hot cat? because this is big company?

    Warm Regards

    Andrea Rossi
    November 1st, 2012 at 8:58 AM
    Dear Avi:
    1. yes
    2. because they signed a mammoth contract, giving the certainty of a solid future to our development.
    Warm Regards,

    So the new company has contracted AR to provide mammoths, apparently. Should be OK for AR – they don’t exist either.


    • Dale G. Basgall

      November 1, 2012 at 4:18 pm

      Tony: Interesting answer on #2, there is usually good faith money when that type of contract is signed.

      • Al Potenza

        November 1, 2012 at 4:31 pm

        There is no evidence any such contract was ever signed. If you sell non-existent equipment, you can be arrested for criminal fraud. If you cheat investors and distributors, you can word the contracts very carefully to minimize your obligation to deliver anything at any particular time. Rossi may think this will let him get off free. I hope it won’t.

      • John Milstone

        November 1, 2012 at 4:49 pm

        there is usually good faith money when that type of contract is signed.

        There are also usually press releases by both sides announcing the deal.

        • MaxS

          November 1, 2012 at 4:57 pm

          There are also usually press releases by both sides announcing the deal.

          Absolutely. I am sure big corporations would love to announce their contribution to reduce their carbon footprint by such a wonderful technology. If we don´t see an announcement by the client anywhere soon, we should assume that there is no such contract.
          BTW, same is for the 1MW cold cats they claim to be selling since a year. Zero client feedback makes it very likely they never supplied a device to any real client.

        • Ransompw

          November 1, 2012 at 6:14 pm


          Making up silly reasons not to believe Rossi like the above is dumb and totally unnecessary. A large corporation will do whatever is in their best interest including hiding such an agreenment. There could be reasons not to publicize the agreement.

          I have a much much better reason to ignore this newest piece of information and I don’t even have to resort to your kind of nonsense.

          My reason – Rossi said it. I find no reason to believe one word from him at this point. Might be true, (I doubt it) but until someone else says it, I will assume it isn’t true.

          I suggest you do the same and stop trying to rationalize why it isn’t true with silly arguments like the one above.

          • Al Potenza

            November 1, 2012 at 7:49 pm

            Again you underestimate the importance of LENR if it were real two years ago. It is impossible that it would have failed to develop or that it would have developed in the lame and stupid and deceptive manner Rossi has claimed it has. It is equally improbable that customers for megawatt plants would **all** not want to go public. What possible advantage is there in that?

            BTW, was Rossi lying to the Florida inspector that he had no reactor factory in Florida then or is he lying now when he says the reactors are being built in the USA? My suspicion: he told the truth (for once) to the inspector– there are no reactors and no factories.

          • Ransompw

            November 1, 2012 at 8:43 pm

            He didn’t tell the Florida Inspector he had NO reactor factory in Florida. For that matter he never told anyone he had one up and running. What he has said on the subject may have been arguably accurate.

            And if he didn’t have a commercial reactor 2 years ago, what is impossible with it taking two years to develop. Other technologies can take much longer.

            All these arguments Al are very poor, when the best argument for ignoring Rossi is in almost two years there is no proof he has anything more (at best) than a novelty experiment which ran a few hours. So I don’t choose to consider his statements true and I don’t have to do mental gymnastics to come to that conclusion like you seem to need.

  7. Dale G. Basgall

    November 1, 2012 at 4:30 pm

    After just digesting the last post by Tony @2:38pm the scenarion now seems that Dick Smith and the others were right.

    The one Meg plant was out of line, the first small unit did not function or had not been built and that’s in fact a way to lose big money, however the inventor Rossi had hooked in a customer with bucks. Not a hard thing to do under todays current state of investment capital.

    This statement by Rossi posted by Tony this morning now makes me feel sure that Rossi has nothing developed like he is advertising. He needs to be spanked hard by someone who can for what he has done here. It will be interesting to watch this play out from here because it seems Rossi is slipping victim to his claims. That takes a special person to flat out lie over and over and falls more into a catergory of insanity.

    • Al Potenza

      November 1, 2012 at 4:32 pm

      Good idea, Dale. Put Rossi over your knee and give him a good spanking.

      • Dale G. Basgall

        November 1, 2012 at 5:51 pm

        Trust me AL! If there is any way possible LENR is to be made workable and a product to patent, we are ready now with patents already in the Patent Application format and the “claims” are written on subject matter of diverse mechanical art for a LENR product.

        They have not been file for several reasons, #1 nothing works yet = LENR not proven.

        #2 filing a patent before public disclosure is a crap shoot. One must wait until the last minute to file. (One year clock set USPTO firm & then file 364 days later).

        #4 the best mode of operation and the method for usage has not been disclosed yet by any inventor.

        #5 the best method of manufacturing or production has not been disclosed which 4&5 are strict requirements to support a valid patent claim.

        Timing is everything in the invention game and until something actually works it is stupid to waste 10 to 15k on a patent filling.

        In fact I can see the LENR patents running in the 10’s of thousand dollars before they are issued.

        An issued patent which is valid in the US does not mean that it can be supported and held valid in an infringement suit. I know because I spent 485K in four years going to Federal Court, flights appearances and it took every day for 7 years in paperwork to keep it going and answering to interrogertories.

        So yes a spanking is indeed justified and how I will do it is patent the better LENR reactor after the LENR is proven and I will in fact begin litigation with Rossi if he tries to collect on the American Public.

        Here’s one law suit I can assure will be initiated. Through the past year and a half of disclosures I have gathered sufficient proof I can use in Federal Court in case this actually comes to reality.


        • MaxS

          November 2, 2012 at 8:56 am

          filing a patent before public disclosure is a crap shoot. One must wait until the last minute to file.

          Dale, the problem with this approach is the public demonstrations are then considered as state of the art and would invalidate the inventiveness of the patent. The real problem is to file a patent and go public before having a working technology, or understanding the technology.

  8. B. Habin

    November 1, 2012 at 5:44 pm

    A “mammoth contract” could also mean it is a contract with 473 pages or similar.
    And 471 of them are giga-confidential NDA-specifications including the ultra clever hidden mini-nuke inside the x-cat to protect his “secret”.

    • Methusela

      November 1, 2012 at 6:18 pm

      It could also mean that he is planning to bring Jurassic Park to life.

      Al, Jami, and the (now invisible Milstone) as Velociraptors.

      Popeye as the hunter.

      Rossi as the Tyrannosaurus rex.

      • Al Potenza

        November 1, 2012 at 6:21 pm

        Rossi? More likely as a rat.

        • Methusela

          November 1, 2012 at 6:41 pm

          Tyrannosaurus rat.

          I think you’ve been reading the wrong history books, or ones with stains covering the important words.

        • Frank

          November 1, 2012 at 6:42 pm

          The e-rat?

          • Stephen

            November 1, 2012 at 9:31 pm

            More like the “irate” when you read his responses…

    • B. Habin

      November 1, 2012 at 6:57 pm

      Amazing brainstorming here 🙂
      We should try to patent the ideas.

      Tyrannus Rat.. LOL

  9. Jami

    November 1, 2012 at 7:56 pm

    Everything is relative. For Rossi, a “mammoth contract” may very well be something exceeding 2 pages and not written in crayon. Looking at what he considers to be an “operation manual”, it’ll probably not even exceed one page.

  10. Al Potenza

    November 1, 2012 at 8:55 pm

    Apparently, the Rossi saga has reached the point where the above idle banter replaces verified accomplishments, milestones, and evidence. That’s where Steorn was just before they closed their forum, deleted all the posts, and began their rapid slide into obscurity.

    • Ransompw

      November 1, 2012 at 9:03 pm

      The difference is Rossi keeps making even bolder claims and More Importantly, LENR is real, notwithstanding diehards like Popeye who have a vested interest in refusing to admit it.

      So watching the Rossi saga even though it looks like it will end poorly for him is still entertaining, particularly when other LENR related information continues to evolve.

      • Al Potenza

        November 1, 2012 at 9:37 pm

        Steorn kept making bolder and bolder claims also. At about the same speed as Rossi and with exactly as much proof. They even showed the device running in public at the Waterways Museum except, of course, that they gave no evidence that it was overunity. They later published what they called calorimetry and guess what? It was spot temperature measurements and totally worthless like much of the LENR literature and for the same reasons.

        We disagree that “LENR is real”. LENR *may be* real but the evidence offered for robust heat effects points to scams while the evidence for subtle findings like those of Celani could be a measurement error or something altogether different from LENR like nickel-hydrogen surface physical/chemical reactions.

        As for Rossi, the details may differ but the overall development is exactly like Steorn and for that matter, not very different from Tilley.

      • popeye

        November 1, 2012 at 9:52 pm

        Ransompw posted on November 1, 2012 at 9:03 pm:

        The difference is Rossi keeps making even bolder claims

        Well, his earliest claims were COP close to 200, and that was also the claim of his Feb 2011 18 hour claim. Even the Jan 15 claim was COP close to 40, and energy output 15 kW. And he claimed core temperatures near the melting point of Ni, so I don’t see the hot cat claims as any bolder. And since he did the earlier claims with a semi-public audience, and actually used the effect to heat water, I’d say they were the bolder ones. Claims of energy density a million times higher than dynamite should not have to rely on the Stefan-Boltzmann equation and dubious emissivity for evidence.

        and More Importantly, LENR is real,

        I thought you stayed away from absolute statements. You mean you think LENR is real. You and a very small part of the population think it’s real. Most people think it’s baloney. In particular, most people who understand nuclear physics think it’s baloney.

        notwithstanding diehards like Popeye

        The diehards are clearly the ones who continue to believe in a phenomenon that has not become any more evident in 23.5 years of trying.

        who have a vested interest in refusing to admit it.

        I thought you didn’t believe in conspiracy theories.

        And you have no idea what vested interests I have, nor do my arguments depend on how my interests are served. In any case, everyone’s interests would be served if LENR were real. Moreover, if it were real, nothing could suppress it indefinitely, and there would be no imaginable benefit to those who would seek to suppress it for their own perceived interests, once the truth came out. Finally, no one can possibly believe that the silly arguments that go on here could contribute to any suppression of a revolutionary phenomenon.

        So watching the Rossi saga even though it looks like it will end poorly for him is still entertaining, particularly when other LENR related information continues to evolve.

        I believe you mean “devolve”.

        • JNewman

          November 1, 2012 at 11:37 pm

          Popeye, you are forgetting the facts that Ransom has done research (whatever that means) and he knows people. Given those two compelling facts, he is entitled to state definitively that LENR is real. For the rest of us, we must be constantly admonished for “concluding” things, particularly if they are negative things.

          • Thicket

            November 2, 2012 at 1:55 pm

            Heh. Ransom is up on his lawyer’s pulpit again admonishing the masses on the evils of conviction as he rewrites Nostradamus’ predictions with a zealot’s fervor.

            Shame on those of us who declare that Rossi is a fraud, but all hail the conclusion that LENR is real.


        • Ransompw

          November 2, 2012 at 3:51 am

          Actually, I think you are incredibly wrong about what people who have given it any real thought (including physicists) think about LENR. What are you going to do when DOE starts funding research, have a stroke? It’s going to happen.

          • popeye

            November 2, 2012 at 5:55 am

            Ransompw posted on November 2, 2012 at 3:51 am:

            Actually, I think you are incredibly wrong about what people who have given it any real thought (including physicists) think about LENR.

            Yes, I know you think that. I don’t have any respect for your opinion about this though, because just as you accuse me of being invested in it, you are heavily invested, and that’s a powerful incentive, and being wrong is a difficult reality to accept.

            But the DOE panel members have given it real thought, and they don’t think LENR is nuclear. Douglas Morrison followed it very closely until 2001, and he remained skeptical. And yes, those cases are from years ago, but there’s no difference in the evidence today. Watch the BBC horizon episode from 1994, and if it weren’t for the size of the eye-glasses, you couldn’t tell it from the 2009 60-minutes program. Same arguments, same claims, same failure of all cold fusion experiments to make enough power to power themselves.

            But even now, the people called upon to review grant proposals or submissions to major journals give it real thought, and they continue to reject.

            What are you going to do when DOE starts funding research, have a stroke? It’s going to happen.

            No. I don’t think it’ll happen, except perhaps on some well-defined aspect of it, which would be reasonable. If someone were actually able to prove the effect, I’d be be shocked, but delighted not to have to keep pouring expensive fuel into my car, and to be able to leave a cleaner planet to my descendants.

          • Methusela

            November 2, 2012 at 10:23 am

            @Popeye: Why? Are you actively trying to prevent it?

        • Ransompw

          November 2, 2012 at 4:01 am

          Popeye your vested interest is your conviction and bias. Those are very powerful incentives. Being wrong especially for someone that has devoted as much time to this subject as you is a difficult reality to accept.

          • popeye

            November 2, 2012 at 5:56 am

            Ransompw pasted on November 2, 2012 at 4:01 am:

            Popeye your vested interest is your conviction and bias. Those are very powerful incentives. Being wrong especially for someone that has devoted as much time to this subject as you is a difficult reality to accept.

            As I said, by that measure, the supporters of cold fusion have the same vested interest in its reality as skeptics like me have in its baloneyness. And of course, the actual researchers have far far more vested interest in it than I do. And yet, the True Believers base their entire belief system on the word of the people with such a powerful vested interest.

      • Frank

        November 1, 2012 at 10:56 pm

        So watching the Rossi saga … is still entertaining

        Yes, it’s entertaining to watch how those guys who argued against sceptic that time when Krivi debunked Rossi’s “demos” now want to talk their way out of the dead end.

        • Ransompw

          November 2, 2012 at 4:10 am


          Krivit is a dope. All you need know about Krivit is that he really thinks there is a difference between calling an unknown reaction causing anomalous heat cold fusion or LENR. Even P & F noted the heat was unexplained by a traditional fusion process.

          Krivit is just a business major pretending to be a journalist. He knows less science than I.

          • Frank

            November 2, 2012 at 7:01 am

            You are straying off topic. My comment isn’t about the professionalism of Krivit as journalist or even scientist!

            My comment is about the fact, that the so smart ‘believers’ didn’t recognize / didn’t want to accept what kind of farce Rossi is performing, but heavily attacked the sceptical voices.

          • Dam

            November 2, 2012 at 8:09 am

            You of all people are on micro thin ice in calling Krivit a dope. Doing so opens you up to belonging somewhere well below that definition. Well below!.
            Damn – the name shd be dsm – dam must have been a Freudian slip (truth is I posted from my brand new iPad mini. Now, these are a winner LOL.

          • DSM

            November 2, 2012 at 8:12 am

            Just proving it shd have been dsm
            Update: this post is messed up. It was a reply to an earlier post I made from new iPad mini, that got posted as dam rather than dsm, but that error post is waiting moderation so this correction post became an orphan.

    • daniel maris

      November 1, 2012 at 9:04 pm

      Is that a prediction? Or an observation.

      • Frank

        November 1, 2012 at 9:34 pm

        Talking about predictions and observations, what do you think nowadays about the comment you made exactly one year ago?

        daniel maris
        November 1, 2011 at 2:15 am
        Yes – I think we should give him some leeway on that. I’d say a year. If there really are buyers then news about their experiences should percolate through over the next year.

        • Ransompw

          November 1, 2012 at 9:39 pm


          I think it was a reasonable statement for Daniel to make in November 2011. I think the lack of any real confirmation in one year is also a large reason most now discount anything Rossi says.

          I would add one caveat. The 1Mw plant Rossi displayed last October was so obviously not ready for prime time (even if you believe the technology worked) that one year would seem short for me to turn that monstrosity into a real product.

          • popeye

            November 1, 2012 at 9:57 pm

            How about your prediction that there would be a commercial LENR device introduced in 2012? That was not specific to Rossi, and yet the absence of such a product has not made you any less confident in LENR. Quite the contrary, it seems. I guess there’s still another two months in 2012; I’m just impatient.

          • Ransompw

            November 2, 2012 at 1:56 am

            Well I don’t remember making the prediction, but if I did, I’ll be wrong unless Rossi is really selling them in stealth mode.

          • popeye

            November 2, 2012 at 3:30 am

            January 21, 2012 at 11:49 am, Ransompw posted:

            Oh wow Popeye’s back, for me A3,B2 , with a caveat. I think Rossi has a LENR reactor, but I am now fairly well convinced he doesn’t have a commercial device for a variety of reasons. So, my vote is that LENR (I prefer Cold Fusion, a much better moniker (not scientifically, just for namimg it)) will be introduced sometime in 2012 to the public and real devices of a commercial nature will begin to appear on the market but there is a good chance it won’t be Rossi.

            Any predictions for 2013? I’ve got one: A little bit louder, and a little bit worse.

          • Ransompw

            November 2, 2012 at 4:15 am

            I thought 12 months would be sufficient, let’s see how far I’m off. I bet I turn out alot closer than you. Your prediction is never, mine was 12 months.

          • popeye

            November 2, 2012 at 6:00 am

            Ransompw posted on November 2, 2012 at 4:15 am:

            I thought 12 months would be sufficient, let’s see how far I’m off. I bet I turn out alot closer than you. Your prediction is never, mine was 12 months.

            That’s a chickensshit bet, because never takes so long to get here, so if I’m right, we won’t “see”. You don’t have the courage to make another prediction with a date, because you’re afraid you’ll be wrong again. Which you almost certainly would be.

            Will you continue to be as certain of LENR if there is still no proof that satisfies the mainstream on the 30th anniversary in 2019? How about 2029? I predict there will still not be a cold fusion experiment that can power itself by either of those dates. In the interim, however, there will be many claims, and much invested by people with deep pockets and shallow minds. A dozen companies with zero products shows it’s a fertile area for hopes and true belief, but barren land for useful science or technology.

        • daniel maris

          November 2, 2012 at 12:09 am

          Frank –

          That was my opinion – in terms of where they are with marketing (if you believe them) then perhaps I was not that far off. But of course I am no more convinced than any other open minded sceptic. Rossi has not yet furnished proof that he has a working or marketable device.

          • Frank

            November 2, 2012 at 12:29 am

            Actually I was more interested to learn what conclusion does an “open minded sceptic” draw from the fact, that after one year there still isn’t any 1MW customer going public.
            I interpreted the comment which you made one year ago that if there is no customer going public this means that the e-cat saga is just a farce, isn’t it?

      • Al Potenza

        November 1, 2012 at 9:38 pm


  11. dsm

    November 1, 2012 at 11:53 pm

    Some very good reading for those who wish to understand Piantelli’s 1995 approach to LENR (Anharmonic stimulated fusion of hydrogen isotopes adsorbed on a crystal lattice).
    I would ask anyone (such as Mr Bernie K etc: ) to explain how Rossi & Focardi alone (as Rossi lets his minions impute) invented the Ni+H process without any reference in his (Rossi’s) patent to what Piantelli had already invented in 1995 & received a patent for in 1999 (although Piantelli let it lapse). The point being that the Rossi/Focardi claim/imputation that Rossi was the inventor is disingenuous as the only difference between Rossi’s claims & Piantelli’s is 1) that Piantelli understood what he was doing whereas Rossi/Focardi didn’t & 2) Rossi claimed he had invented a magic catalyst that made his devices work, but Rossi has never provided a shred of scientific proof that this catalyst is either real or how it works. This was just one significant reason put forward for rejection by the IPO of Rossi’s april 2008 patent.
    Piantelli also filed a new patent in Oct 2008 and it is that 2008 (2009 with IPO) patent that Piantelli has been told he will have accepted in coming weeks.
    Add to that 3 more patents Piantelli filed in 2011 (the 1st of which will be published very soon).
    All Rossi’s posturing over his flawed 2008 Patent is utterly meaningless and he knows it but he still spews forth the BS.
    Just ask yourself what it will mean globally if Piantelli has accepted patents for LENR via the IPO & Rossi has nothing other than his flawed Italy only bit of paper.

  12. ts

    November 2, 2012 at 1:19 am

    Hehe. Now Feb 2013 is the big date. I can still remember how Oct 2011 was the big date and how that ended. Then then next big date will be late 2014, then early 2016, etc…

    • Al Potenza

      November 2, 2012 at 1:36 am

      Yup. And like Steorn’s fictitious magnetic motor, all these months it would have taken under two weeks for a reliable and credible third party to perform a convincing independent test if the ecat was real. And what’s really hilarious is that the ecat that Levi tested back in February 2010 (was it?) would be suitable because it had high power and a high COP and because Levy measured it without using steam! Ever wonder why Rossi never had that test repeated except with proper attention to detail?

      Wow, a test like that might even have helped the patent application. If it worked, of course. And if the test was properly done which Levi’s pretty clearly was not.

      The strange part is that I bet Levi knows that. Why he’s been quiet all this time is a mystery.

    • dsm

      November 2, 2012 at 2:25 am

      The patent issue is important even if some among us believe that the process doesn’t work any way.
      If Piantelli gets international patents granted for his version of Ni+H reaction, and assuming the inevitable that Rossi’s all get rejected, then (ignoring the separate issue as to if LENR works to some degree or not) Piantelli will have what is needed for adventurous BIG business to invest in further LENR research of Piantelli’s process.
      Part of what repeatedly destroys Rossi’s credibility is he repeatedly imputes that big investors (mystery military, big silent cust) are investing in him, but no sane big money org will ever do this when Rossi has no useful patenets to protect the investment.

      If Piantell’s patents get that protection (and it appears they will) then that is where serious investment money will flow to from any organization who thinks the risks (of LENR success & scaling) would be worth it.
      Rossi’s circus is actually coming to an end. Piantelli’s IPO patent acceptance & Rossi’s IPO rejection will be it, but expect Rossi to spin his charade out beyond even this.
      Bad luck to those who handed over $100,000s to Rossi because they were so gulible as to trust him let alone believe him and then keep doing so.

      • dragonX

        November 2, 2012 at 4:40 am

        It looks bad for Rossi. The only thing that looks good is the sheer number of people that came in contact with him and most importantly to the E-CAT and still stick with Rossi after this encounter. Why is that in your opinion?
        I am talking about many associates, businessman, professors, etc.
        Please explain.

        • GreenWin

          November 2, 2012 at 5:16 am

          A why is a key figure in the United States Navy on his Board of Advisers?? Oh well, people do the darndest things. A $billion partnership with a multinational non-tech company? Sure. Where’s the proof.

          IGZ-2013 Home Grown Drama

          • JNewman

            November 2, 2012 at 11:52 am

            “A key figure in the United States Navy.” That is absolutely priceless, GW. And you base that assessment on what exactly?

        • dsm

          November 2, 2012 at 6:12 am

          I can’t even try to explain how charismatic illusionists/tricksters (Jungian definition) are so successful. You have to figure that out for yourself.
          I can look at the facts, listen to the promises & how they pan out & can also look at how the Patent office does just what I predicted they would based on the same facts & evidence.
          I can’t explain people’s attachments to conspiracy theories, only each person themselves can do this. Again, I can only look at the evidence and conclude IMHO that anyone who believes that global govts have put aside their differences to collude on locking out the great Andrea Rossi from his self announced greatness and success, are likely to be (in Aussie slang) people who are one sandwich short of a picnic.
          I can also add, having worked for a global corporation that adopted radical new technologies, where I did many negotiations with entrepreneurs, that big money is rarely thrown at such people who have no patent/ip protection no matter how loud-mouthed & manipulative they may be. To succeed in such a role, you have to get good at recognizing them.


        • John Milstone

          November 2, 2012 at 2:00 pm

          The only thing that looks good is the sheer number of people that came in contact with him and most importantly to the E-CAT and still stick with Rossi after this encounter.

          If you look at the actual evidence, rather than the interpretations given by the True Believer, you’ll see that most of the “contacts” are superficial, or even non-existant.

          The best example is Rossi’s relationship with National Instruments. Rossi and his shills spent months claiming that there was a close technical relationship between the two, and that was confirmation that the E-Cat worked (since National Instruments would never be fooled after “working closely” on an E-Cat.

          The facts were completely different. NI never had a close technical relationship with Rossi. They only presented their technology to Rossi, in the hopes that they could make a sale. They never got far enough to actually examine an E-Cat.

          Similarly, none of the “experts” who have seen a Rossi demo have claimed to have done any independent investigation. They only saw Rossi run carefully controlled demos in his own facilities. Such “demos” are useless to evaluate the veracity of his claims. And, Rossi continues to refuse to allow any independent evaluation of any of his claims.

          And, I notice that the early Rossi supporters haven’t had anything positive to say about him for the last year or so. It looks like they realize that they’ve “stepped in it”, and are hoping that no one remembers their unjustified support.

    • Frank

      November 2, 2012 at 8:34 am

      Here some Rossi “important contract signed Déjà-vus” (only a few – the post would get much too long otherwise):

      Andrea Rossi
      April 7th, 2011 at 11:10 PM
      Dear Dr Gillis HRG:
      […] Today I am in the USA factory of Leonardo Corporation where I signed a contract of tremendous importance. As soon as I will be allowed to announce it, believe me, it will be extremely important.
      Warm regards,

      April 9th, 2011 at 2:13 PM
      Dear Mr Rossi,
      I have several questions:
      1) You told us that you have signed a contract with a new US partner with whom you want to sell energy in the US. Do you want to sell heat, electricity, or both?
      2)Is your new partner a public traded company so that I can buy shares of them? […]

      Andrea Rossi
      April 9th, 2011 at 3:07 PM
      Dear Mr Erwin Hergen:
      2- By october we will make a joint press conference[…]

      Andrea Rossi
      June 22nd, 2011 at 1:26 AM
       […]by the way: yesterday the research contract with the University of Bologna has been signed.
      Warm Regards,

      Andrea Rossi
      August 7th, 2011 at 3:59 PM
      […] But the tech must go on, we signed a tremendous contract in the USA. The Customer has already made plans for 1,000 plants in the USA, and has the financial dimension for this[…]

  13. Al Potenza

    November 2, 2012 at 6:47 am

    Ransompw wrote

    “Krivit is just a business major pretending to be a journalist. He knows less science than I.”

    He is a far better prosecutor of Rossi’s shenanigans than you were an advocate for Rossi’s defense even when you believed the most in him.

    “The 1Mw plant Rossi displayed last October was so obviously not ready for prime time .”

    What Rossi showed in October of 2011 was a non-working assembly of modules of junk. And he didn’t even have the balls to let anyone watch it “run” for more than minutes at a time lest they see through his obvious duplicity and deception involving the giant diesel generator connected to the assembly of misaligned and badly assembled, leaky, refugee plumbing parts.

    That was no more of a megawatt nuclear plant than a wrecked truck is.

  14. Harry Perini

    November 2, 2012 at 12:18 pm

    I will finally be receiving my home Ecat in 2013 !!

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    When will the ECAT be available?

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    • JNewman

      November 2, 2012 at 12:23 pm

      Make up your mind, Harry. Two weeks ago you posted that you already received your ecat. Is there a point to anything you have to say, or is it just that your mommy accidentally left the computer on again?

    • DSM

      November 2, 2012 at 12:23 pm

      Shill !