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eCatNews Comments

October 9, 2012

Sometimes WP screws up comments when they build up and sometimes not. This is one of those times. With luck, this post will fix it.

For those thinking that I may have shut the site down, I promise to give warning. If I pull the plug, I will announce the last open post and how long it will run before adding a final conclusive article that will stand without comment. Unless unexpected developments warrant reopening, I will leave the blog up for at least a year as a research tool and as a warning to others.

I said I would give time for the Rossi UniBo claim to play through October. I am not hopeful that he will deliver but am willing to wait and be surprised. Beyond that, developments in the LENR field look interesting. I would only switch to that if I could give it my full attention to do the subject justice as I will not repeat the hands-off moderation when things get ugly.

That said, within that sometimes nasty debate, lay many insightful posts that I am grateful for. Thanks to all who contribute without constant insult.

Posted by on October 9, 2012. Filed under Bologna,Media & Blogs,Rossi. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

498 Responses to eCatNews Comments

  1. Mike

    October 15, 2012 at 2:31 am

    YES Paul DO shut down your website you have infested the cold fusion community everything negative about Cold Fusion .. Please GO AWAY Paul Story and take your fan boys with you.


    • John Milstone

      October 16, 2012 at 10:32 am

      There is always for those of you who can’t face the facts and want to only hear from other “True Believers”.

    • JKW

      October 16, 2012 at 2:59 pm

      Mike, I am sympathetic with you. If all believers gather in a circle, sit down, close their eyes, and keep repeating your words, who knows, maybe the Coulomb barrier will be gone.

      • JNewman

        October 16, 2012 at 5:58 pm

        No, sadly, it doesn’t work that way. On the other hand, people saying negative things about LENR is what is keeping it from working.

        • JKW

          October 16, 2012 at 6:36 pm

          Yes, I see your point… We are the hindrance of cold fusion revolution all the time. Darn, I feel so guilty now!

          • NJT

            October 18, 2012 at 3:32 am

            JKW and you and your other, likely paid, pathetic “patho’s” will certainly be guilty of helping to suppress this LENR technology that could likely better mankind – sleep well knowing what you are doing to destroy our earth! BYE – crow is definitely in all your future diet’s – enjoy while you choke!

            I will not be back to this site any time soon so all you patho’s can forget to respond to me with your pathetic diatribes as I will not see it – have your funnies while it lasts.

            Sorry Paul I just could no longer help myself and lost it with these many nitwits…
            Neil Taylor

          • John Milstone

            October 18, 2012 at 9:25 pm

            crow is definitely in all your future diet’s – enjoy while you choke!

            I’ve been waiting for my free crow dinner for almost two years now.

            I’m getting hungry!

  2. GreenWin

    October 15, 2012 at 4:12 am

    “On 30 September the National Ignition Facility’s (NIF’s) two-year-long National Ignition Campaign (NIC) [hot fusion] officially came to an end. Despite multiple attempts on the part of Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory scientists to create miniature laser-driven thermonuclear explosions, they failed to achieve ignition…

    We were wrong. We are sorry.

    IGZ-2013 It’s OK to be wrong

    • General Zaroff

      October 15, 2012 at 5:02 am

      GreenWin, since you are a man who likes quotes, here is a nice one for you by Emerson: “A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.” I don’t even know what it means, but somehow it pops into my head when you post your rants on hot fusion.

      I do like your expression “It’s ok to be wrong”, is it the new slogan for LENR researchers? I am just joking, I am now totally a convert and believe in LENR. I even built my own machine in the last couple of days. I will share that story with you when the posts start a new page.

      • GreenWin

        October 17, 2012 at 8:40 pm

        Hi Generale, I think you’ve typically over-engineered your invention. Why bother with diamond-edged cavitation when your acoustic field will do just fine? Shhhh… the secret is in coherence. And of course a magic number like 1.618

        And as my posts include quotes from prestigious science journals about the failure of hot fusion… Yes, it IS okay for these downtrodden old coots to admit being wrong.

        IGZ-2013 Don’t Beat Yourself Up (excessively)

    • NJT

      October 18, 2012 at 3:51 am

      Greenwin, I lived and worked along side many of these folks at LLNL and they were sincere hard working scientists making a living. They believed in what they were doing and now it has shown to be a wrong path. Some I talked with back in the days of P & F even thought that was a possible pathway, but it was stymied by the powers that be. So here we are with another possible proven LENR pathway and the patho’s here now helping to hinder that progress – go figure! It only points to the big fossil fuel men controlling this site with their stooges to suppress LENR and keep the status guo going for as long as possible…
      I am here only for a few comments, never to return. I read your comments on other sites and mostly agree with your perspective. I believe you are wasting you knowledge, time and efforts here as the patho’s are committed to the status guo and not capable of out of the box thinking or even realizing what is happening around them – they are mostly paid stooges – period!
      Neil Taylor

  3. General Zaroff

    October 15, 2012 at 5:51 am

    Hello Dale and friends,

    I promised you an LENR story with a happy ending a few days ago. Well, let me tell you I have been busy doing a lot of research and constructing my own device. Things have actually gone pretty well, and I am happy to share the approach I have taken with all of you, my fellow LENR-buffs because I am a firm believer in open-sourcing this tech.

    Well, making LENR reactors ain’t cheap, so my adventure started with a loan from a nice Italian fellow named Guido. The loan had some pretty serious strings attached, and I knew I would have to work quickly to achieve my goals and avoid bodily harm. LENR is a very ruthless business when Italians are involved. Anyhow, I took Guido’s investment and headed straight to work over at the nearest casino.

    I think with a bit more practice I could have beat that roulette wheel, but I guess it just wasn’t my day. Luckily I do know when to quit, and I had set aside enough of Guido’s money to buy a plane ticket and start my experiments overseas. The Congo is beautiful this time of year, and if you are ever looking for a place to lose yourself in LENR research and avoid repaying a loan shark, you can’t do better than Brazzaville.

    But I did not just pick any old lawless, war-torn country to avoid running into Guido and his associates. You see, I actually do know a thing or two about LENR science. Long ago I designed a LENR reactor, and through careful computer simulations I have known for quite some time just what to do.

    Here is the basic premise behind my LENR reactor. I induce cavitation in a flow of water just upstream of some Nickel nano wires, like the ones Celani uses. By controlling bubble size with an acoustic field and flow constrictions, the bubbles collapse on the Nickel wires. The collapsing bubbles reach tremendous pressures and temperatures, and as they collapse the Hydrogen dissociates from the Oxygen briefly. The free Hydrogen atoms in the hot, high pressure vapour bubbles then trigger a fusion reaction with the Nickel wire. Heat, Copper, and Oxygen are all that remain.

    The missing ingredient in my above description, and the real reason for my trip to the Congo, is what lies immediately upstream of my Nickel nano wire. Can you guess it Dale? What substance is inert, hydrophobic, has high thermal conductivity, and with its sharp edges is ideal for instigating large pressure gradients and thus cavitation? Diamonds. Just upstream from the Nickel wire lies a bed of diamonds. The rest is just engineering. You regulate power by adjusting the acoustic field and modifying the flow rate.

    You may think that such a reactor would be economically unfeasible because of the diamonds. Were it not for the hard work of my friends in the militias, this would be true. But if you are willing to buy diamonds from a guy with an AK-47 in the back of a van, there is a lot of money to be saved and my little version of cold fusion becomes a reality. I have returned from my trip with enough raw stones to pay back Guido and set up a proper lab. Now I just have to get to work perfecting my technology and saving mankind. I hope that Dale, buffalo, Jay2011, and LCD will try to get their hands on some cheap conflict diamonds so we can all experiment and compare notes.

    I realize that some of you will be a little squeamish knowing that blood diamonds are the solution to our energy crisis. But if we can just fuel the turmoil in Africa a little bit longer to keep prices low, I am suree we will all be better off. And if it helps you sleep at night, I want you all to know that Charity will be a major beneficiary of my success. Ever since I first saw her dance a month ago, I have wanted to lay my hands on that broad. I am certain that if I can perfect my reactor I will have more than enough money to make that dream come true.

    So to my fellow LENR researchers, I ask you to help me screw charity. Sure Africa may suffer a bit in the short term, but we might save mankind in the long run.

    • MaxS

      October 15, 2012 at 1:04 pm

      LOL, +2 !

    • spacegoat

      October 15, 2012 at 1:28 pm

      General. Your intentions are honourable and true as always. Dale, buffalo, LCD and Jay2011 could surely help you with Charity, and their expertise in breaking through the barrier appears to be greater than yours, General, Sir.

    • Dale G. Basgall

      October 15, 2012 at 5:56 pm

      Now General that is a really good story and was enjoyable.Since I never had any stories read to me as a youth because my folks spoke German/Russian and they could not read English well or write. Mom is 93 and still kicking but not to worry I am heinz 57 poi dog, I was left at a hospital dumpster so the folks were not my blood, I have no affiliations with the Russians or Germans except for this one Russian girl in SO Cal., not to worry, however I knew I wouldn’t fit in with those large Germans anyway, so I moved to a place people were more my size (small).

      So since this is the story and my first cup of coffee for the morning it is great and fit’s into a realization and the NIF comments.

      It’s always Guido the Italian, the “organization” the pressure, the dictated directions, and so on. Science should not be about money, at least not limiting substantial steps with fields like “green energy”.

      You could solve the worlds problem now today for energy by simply doing away with all human life forms, that’s the easy way. But not an option because others need others to kill at random and slowly, like by taking away things one at a time until all that is left is life itself and survival.

      So how many scientist work free of charge, how many real scientists are there out there and are able to produce experiments without going home to someone like a wife and a house? To most it’s simply an occupation and they usually have very straight forward lives,own things, and also have payments to make.

      The reasons for success come from devotion, hard work, and mental freedom, quite unlike our scientific research teams in Government and private sectors. I bet once you miss a pay check for most scientists they are down the street looking for work or a “yob” just like everyone else that’s human. There will be no LENR or IGNITION ever discovered using those methods of research.

      Our scientists of the future that will make these discoveries in LENR and fusion IGNITION will all be working free of charge, with no cars, no wives, no girlfriends, no home, no food, and a cleaning lady present at all times to keep the trail to the restroom clear. There will be no useless eaters in the group, no directions, and no threat of cutting the budget because we need to stockpile some more tritium.

      I love the diamond idea General and I was a little concerned if I had gotten the wrong general because I thought the other General was Zarcoff and not Zaroff. Thanks for the story, it’s always good to mix Guido in, the authority figure.

      It’s going to take men and women with past history of success in their trades as well as people in physics working together with these types of scenarios of freedom to express their skills to achieve IGNITION or LENR. Until that happens there is no way restricted people will discover the secrets to these highly efficient forms of producing electrical energy, (DC).

    • Al Potenza

      October 15, 2012 at 6:20 pm

      Ah, General, you’re not up to Rossi standards yet. You not only have to screw charity as Rossi has, you also have to bamboozle the likes of Focardi, Levi, Kullander, Essen, Lewan and Josephson. That is Rossi’s most startling accomplishment but he managed it somehow.

      • dragonX

        October 16, 2012 at 2:31 pm

        If Rossi is fake, then he is a master of deceiving. If he is true, than cold fusion will come soon on the market.
        In both occasions… LENR got the Mother of All Boosts.

        What is not to like at Rossi?
        If scientists, entrepreneurs, other respectable entities, can be fooled so easily, then something is wrong with our education system and yes, our entire scientific establishment. So, showing us the fallibility of the scientific establishment is another voluntary service from Rossi for our modern society, so dependent of authority of some kind. Isn’t that (identifying the security holes) what hackers claim to do for network security? Rossi is useful for society already. So, respect in both cases.

        • JKW

          October 16, 2012 at 3:11 pm

          I am sure all investors, like Mr. Roger Green, share your point of view. They are glad to improve the humankind, and will be overwhelmed by happiness once they realize they were deprived of money to support children with cancer.

        • MaxS

          October 16, 2012 at 5:54 pm

          “If scientists, entrepreneurs, other respectable entities, can be fooled so easily”
          I´m a scientist myself but I do not believe a word what Rossi is telling.
          In fact, only a very small group of scientists has been fooled, they did not pay proper attention, however the vast majority of scientists remains skeptical.
          Why ? Because Rossi has a histroy, he has failed to deliver credible experimental data to support his claims (even data contradicting with his own theory).
          Then there is the request for independent verification – mainly requested because of Rossi´s own history, and he again did not deliver anything.

    • Jay2011

      October 16, 2012 at 6:07 am


      As always, I am overwhelmed by your insight and intuition. However, I have a few small suggestions regarding your reactor. First, I would suggest that you dissolve some nanopowder nickel into your hydraulic stream of collapsing bubbles so that some nano nickel is present in each collapsing bubble. In my spare time, while working on my own reactors, I have invented a proprietary scheme for preferential separation of favored nickel isotopes. For a small price (perhaps song lyrics for my forthcoming musical entitled “Scam of the Century”), I would be willing to divulge the secret to you.

      Second, I must inform you that with the appropriate placement of thermocouples (precisely in the stream of collapsing bubbles), you too could enjoy a COP of greater than unity. (Nevermind that thermocouples are susceptible to acoustic, as well as EM noise). Finally, I recommend that you take advantage of van de graaff stripping of electrons in your flow constrictor so as to produce an impressive array of colorful discharges. Whether or not they help with the LENR reaction, they will be certain to impress investors.

      Appreciate the honorable mention in your story.


  4. GreenWin

    October 15, 2012 at 10:54 am

    Generale: how to quibble with inspiration for the ever-popular IGZ??

    But I agree, Physics Today, being a less than sober publication, does “rant” on about the failure of hot fusion. I, like pathoskeps, believe it should be swept under the rug, hidden from public sight, so as not to burst the bubble of expertise.

    Heck, with more denial and chicanery, hot fusionists might bilk another $3-4 BILLION from the public before they are marched to the Tribunal!!

    IGZ-2013 Failed Fusionistas Welcome!

    • 123star

      October 15, 2012 at 11:26 am

      Hi, could you remind us what IGZ is? After months I still haven’t figured it out. Can’t find anything on the web.


  5. Dale G. Basgall

    October 15, 2012 at 6:37 pm

    Well I was doing some research on acoustical engineering and ran across an article on guitar strings from a physicist. The article was about a musician having to re tune his high string after 10 minutes, then 10 minutes later but the sound was vibrating out of relation to what was physically explained. So the question to the physicist illuded something happening on a molecular level. That’s deep.

    Anyway so I asked the physicist about LENR and acoustics, thought others may find this comment interesting regarding LENR.

    • CuriousChris

      October 16, 2012 at 12:20 am

      I have a solution for the guitarist. Better quality strings wont stretch so quick.

    • Quax

      October 17, 2012 at 3:47 pm

      Only LENR that everybody can agree on is still the frustrating muon catalyzed ones.

      Unfortunately no one has figured out how to make them live longer, although there are some controversial studies that decay rates may not be as fundamentally constant as our current theory holds (

      An astrophysicist had an interesting comment on this post, pointing out that to him it’s old news that elementary particle can have different decay rates, but unfortunately his example wasn’t exactly practical either 🙂

  6. Frank

    October 15, 2012 at 6:55 pm

    Rossi’s answer on a question on JONP about the e-cat certification timeframe
    “…can you tell us if would be a matter of months or years?”

    Andrea Rossi
    October 15th, 2012 at 8:56 AM
    Dear jean:
    No, it is impossible to foresee.
    Warm Regards,

    Bad news for all the ones who made a pre-order. The wait will go on – indefinitely (no surprise)
    Before the “believers” blame UL staff for delaying the delivery of their e-cat, they should re-think whether Rossi’s answer is trustworthy. Should we believe that UL doesn’t give any indication to a manufacturer when he may expect a result from them?

    Copy from UL FAQ-page:
    How much does it cost and how long does it take to have a product tested?
    Cost varies depending on the product type and scope of the certification/evaluation. Once UL reviews your product information to determine the full scope of the investigation, UL will work with you in determining the time frame for testing and certification. This will depend on when you need the project completed and will be influenced by other factors such as availability of samples and required information, amount of testing, and sometimes scheduling of a visit to your manufacturing facility.

    • JKW

      October 16, 2012 at 2:27 pm

      I hope someone oils those rusting robots occasionally.

  7. Al Potenza

    October 15, 2012 at 8:30 pm

    Test? I tried to post a link to Krivit’s new article about Rossi and it did not post. No error messages.

    • Al Potenza

      October 15, 2012 at 8:31 pm

      In addition, I added this post to the end and it appeared here!

    • John Milstone

      October 17, 2012 at 11:10 am

      Test? I tried to post a link to Krivit’s new article about Rossi and it did not post. No error messages.

      FYI, Krivit’s new articles appear to be behind a paywall. That may be why you had trouble posting it.

  8. dsm

    October 15, 2012 at 9:44 pm


    Yesteday I posted a Roger Green memo but today I still see it has a label “Your post is waiting moderation”
    I suspect it was all the links Green had in his email that triggered the blocking of it.
    Well here it is again sans some of the links.

    Roger Green has paid 100s of 1000s to Rossi for agencies to sell ecats.

    Here is a portion of Roger’s latest request for more investors. Roger has *NO* proofs the eCat is what is claimed (a working LENR reactor).




    Andrea Rossi/ inventor of the E cat Technology / aka cold fusion /LENR

    has just released this memo- on his recent experiments with the HOT CAT, a design that reaches higher temperatures than the current e cat that is available now, with an independent report coming out in approx. 1 week

    read here…

    here is the link:

    This means the possibility of using the e cat for much more industrial processes, the generation of electricity, the bolt on use of low pressure desalination (being pioneered by us!) and even uses such as transport- are just around the corner- read the report- a COP of nearly 12: 1 was reached over non stop 4
    days of trials, plus temperatures of 1000 degrees C !!!!

    Investment update.
    Nearly all of the licenses in the world have been sold by Leonardo Corporation Indian now sold ( I have a JV partner for India sub-continent). All of Africa continent I have organised investors to secure the license- and that is now finalised.
    I and my African license partners have placed a deposit onto Spain and Portugal licenses, so now have first option from Andrea Rossi.
    There are parcels of shares available in these licenses- contact me over this weekend, as we are sure- with the release of this good
    news- they will be sold within 1 week.

    Roger Green

    • CuriousChris

      October 16, 2012 at 12:25 am

      2 things of interest in that email.

      1/ “the current e cat that is available now”

      Ok from whom can I get one of these “available now” ecats

      2/ Why does a licensee have to read the latest news on ecatworld? isn’t that an odd way to treat prospective licensees?

    • lcd

      October 16, 2012 at 10:29 pm

      Non refundable or what. What are the terms?

  9. daniel maris

    October 15, 2012 at 11:33 pm

    J Newman –

    The quote you gave from the document is below but I think out of context that is very misleading and I think you have misinterpreted what is meant.

    You start the quotation half way through. If you read the first sentence you will see it states: “This document is issued by the Company etc….” The Company refers to SGS (as is clear from the reference to its guidance in relation to the document). Clearly, given that first reference, the later references to “the document” unambiguously relate to the SGS’s document (i.e. the certificate). By omitting the first part of the disclaimer you give the misleading impression that the “document” must equate to your gloss on the disclaimer referring to a “report”:

    “…the SGS certification is nothing more than Rossi (or his shill) submitting a report to SGS”

    It is much more than that. It is about SGS handing over a document (the certificate) to Rossi. The certificate is informed by the third party testing but it is not restricted to that. As the disclaimer makes clear it relates to a visual inspection by SGS and of course they bring to bear their huge range of experience when they make that inspection.

    You have managed to confuse the third party test reports with “the document” i.e. the document itself. Clearly, SGS are not vouching for the third party testing but they are vouching they have seen the machine working and, as far is practicable, are confirming it does not contravene the many and various safety criteria laid out in the legislation.

    Here is what you quoted:

    “The SGS stamp and signature merely represents receipt of the document and SGS makes no representations as to the accuracy, adequacy and/or completeness of the third party test/laboratory results, reports or certifications. Any holder of this document is advised that the information contained hereon is limited to visual examination of the safety and readily accessible portions of the consignment only. Solely for services related to wistnessing/observing a third party’s interventions(s) in accordance with Client’s instructions, the Company’s involvement has been limited to witnessing/observing a third party’s interventions(s) to forward the results, or confirm the occurrence, of the interventions(s). The Company is not responsible for the condition or calibration of apparatus, instruments and measuring devices used, the analysis methods applied, the qualifications, actions or omissions of the third party’s personnel or the analysis results.”

    The full disclaimer, including the parts you chose to omit can be found at the following link:

    • John Milstone

      October 16, 2012 at 10:37 am

      Daniel, you are simply wrong.

      The document does not indicate that SGS has done any testing of the E-Cat.

      No amount of wishful thinking on your part will change that fact.

      • daniel maris

        October 16, 2012 at 4:22 pm

        SGS observed/witnessed a third party test and made a visusal examination, of course bringing to bear all their expertise and experience. This is stated quite clearly on the certificate whereas J NEwman was trying to give the impression Rossi handed SGS a report which they then stamped. Completely wrong.

        • John Milstone

          October 16, 2012 at 5:12 pm

          Even under the most optimistic interpretation, SGS stood there and watched the same “demo” that Rossi put on last October 28th.

          That is, SGS stood there and watched the shipping container do nothing, while Secret NATO Colonel assured them that they were getting really good results. Then, they walked around the shipping container and verified that there were no sharp corners.

          In other words, even using your interpretation, it is worthless as evidence of the E-Cat doing anything at all.

        • Bigwilly

          October 16, 2012 at 5:13 pm

          Hey Daniel,

          Could you please quote the section that gives that states or implies they observed/witnessed a third party test and made a visual examination bringing to bear all their expertise and experience?

          I am quite interested if this is the case


          • daniel maris

            October 16, 2012 at 9:46 pm

            Big Willy –

            “Any holder of this document is advised that the information contained hereon is limited to visual examination of the safely and readily accessible portions of the consignment only. “

            There are also references to the company “witnessing/observing” a third party’s interventions and “confirming the occurrence” of the third party interventions.

            “Inspection visit carried out from (sic) the manufacturers with a satisfactory outcome.” That doesn’t make sense in English. The “from” should be an “at” (I checked the translation on Google).

            You also need to read the certificate in relation to the 20 or 30 safety items that are being checked for and you have to accept that SGS is one of the foremost safety testing agencies in the world. The idea they would tamely accept results handed over from Rossi having just established that there are no “sharp edges” is ridiculous.

          • JNewman

            October 16, 2012 at 10:36 pm

            Enough quibbling about the SGS certificate. The important thing about it is that it passes the GEDM (good enough for Daniel Maris) test. The rest is irrelevant.

          • Bigwilly

            October 16, 2012 at 10:43 pm

            Hi Daniel,

            Thank you for the response.

            “Any holder of this document is advised that the information contained hereon is limited to visual examination of the safely and readily accessible portions of the consignment only. “

            This is not very clear. Is this through translation? It could mean many things I think we might agree.

            “There are also references to the company “witnessing/observing” a third party’s interventions and “confirming the occurrence” of the third party interventions.”

            –This also is unclear. We would have to use some judgment to piece together the puzzle of what it says. It could mean SGS or it could mean they received something from a 3rd party who performed the safety inspection.

            “Inspection visit carried out from (sic) the manufacturers with a satisfactory outcome.” That doesn’t make sense in English. The “from” should be an “at” (I checked the translation on Google).

            –This still does state they were present. It only states that whomever performed the inspection did it at Rossi’s workshop. We are still relying on machine translation and inferences.

            “You also need to read the certificate in relation to the 20 or 30 safety items that are being checked for and you have to accept that SGS is one of the foremost safety testing agencies in the world. The idea they would tamely accept results handed over from Rossi having just established that there are no “sharp edges” is ridiculous”

            –I don’t want to even review this type of inference. SGS could have any number of reasons or motivations for doing or not doing the inspection themselves. I don’t want to call SGS’s reputation into question. I just want to understand the disconnect between the certificate’s clear statement that they did not perform the inspection and the above “infered”/circumstantial evidence that has been translated.


          • daniel maris

            October 17, 2012 at 1:44 am

            Bigwilly –

            I don’t know where you get the idea that the certificate says they didn’t perform the inspection. I can’t see that anywhere on the certificate.

            As for the language on the certificate, well it’s pretty appalling English – I can’t speak for the Italian! One suspects that as with many disclaimer that is partly deliberate, so they can argue any which way they like in Court. However, I just find it v. difficult to believe that SGS are being paid to put a stamp on something prepared by someone else and with no active involvement on their part.

            I am happy to agree that the Certificate’s meaning is not as clear as one would like. But it certainly doesn’t say that Rossi or a Ross rep simply handed a report to SGS – which was J Newman’s claim.

        • Frank

          October 16, 2012 at 6:42 pm

          Statement from the SGS paper:
          The voluntary verification has occured by means of inspection visit carried out from the manufacturer with a satisfactory outcome.
          The results of the visit are on Technical Reports RVV.DM.MI12.003 and RVV.DM.MI12.004.

          Daniel, what might be the most likely reason why Rossi never provided those two technical reports?
          Could it be he keeps them under disclosure because the content of these reports would make it obvious (even to you) that this paper not at all is a proof of the claimed e-cat performance, but just smoke and mirrors?

          • daniel maris

            October 16, 2012 at 9:47 pm


            You can’t have it both ways. If these technical reports are produced by shills they should be “glowing”. Now you are conflicting with others here by claiming that the technical reports are poor and that is why he’s hiding them.

          • Frank

            October 16, 2012 at 10:39 pm

            If these technical reports are produced by shills they should be “glowing”

            Of course this reports are not “glowing” – if they would, then Rossi would proudly present them to the public.
            I bet there is nothing in this reports where SGS confirms in any way that the e-cat perform as Rossi claims. That’s why Rossi has good reasons to keep the reports disclosed: Not to spoil your dreams.

          • John Milstone

            October 17, 2012 at 11:18 am

            If these technical reports are produced by shills they should be “glowing”. Now you are conflicting with others here by claiming that the technical reports are poor and that is why he’s hiding them.

            It seems clear to me that the specified reports are from SGS, not Rossi.

            I’m sure they make such revolutionary statements as: “There were no sharp edges” and “There was a clearly-marked emergency stop button”.

            I’m also sure that if it showed anything useful to Rossi he would have released the reports.

    • JNewman

      October 16, 2012 at 12:36 pm

      The safety report was issued by Rossi’s shills; the certification document by SGS attests that they have seen the safety report.

      I agree with Milstone. There is nothing in that document that even implies much less states that SGS did any testing. But as I suspected all along, you are not going to allow any facts to influence your thinking. Carry on.

    • Asterix

      October 19, 2012 at 8:40 pm

      Has anyone forgotten that Lutec received full SGS testing for their “over unity” magnetic generator?

      I submit that anyone who considers an SGS report to be “proof” that a device works needs to engage in some serious navel-gazing.

  10. GreenWin

    October 16, 2012 at 4:04 am

    I so DEEPLY wish I could deny mein Furor Zarcofagus, that we are not really damaged. That our Denial Reich still has Geheimagenten operating im beriech… alas mein Furor I cannot!

    IGZ-2013 Resistance Was Infantile

    • Ivy Matt

      October 16, 2012 at 10:28 am

      Ah, the heady days of summer, 2011.

      Hitler sure has an eclectic combination of motives, doesn’t he?

  11. GreenWin

    October 16, 2012 at 4:06 am

    Achtung… the previous ist sheist.

  12. daniel maris

    October 16, 2012 at 9:09 am

    (To clarify – I have responded to J Newman’s quote from the SGS certificate above. I think he is confusing the “report” in his own description with the “document” in his quotation.)

    • JKW

      October 16, 2012 at 1:38 pm

      (Who are you talking to, Dan?)

      • Robert Munson

        October 17, 2012 at 10:00 pm

        All the deniers that can’t explain away the certificate. Lead by jcluless and millstone oh! And frank

  13. Loonyman

    October 16, 2012 at 11:35 am

    Hi guys….. Just swinging by to ask if anyone can remember the Swedish guy who bet me 10,000 Swedish crowns regarding a viable LENR device befor Christmas… If I have to I will dig through every comment on the forum this year, ( as the money goes to charity ) , but it would be faster if any of you regulars can remember…

    Best wishes,


    • JKW

      October 16, 2012 at 1:32 pm

      Loonyman, I might not have been around here yet, but I think you have chosen an appropriate nick. Suppose you find the Swedish guys post?

      • JKW

        October 16, 2012 at 1:52 pm

        BTW, please excuse my grammar, but I always get the tenses messed up. English is my fourth language, so ESL courses were lost on me.

    • Ivy Matt

      October 16, 2012 at 1:58 pm

      Anders F. I haven’t seen him around lately. If you don’t have another way to reach him, you may be out of luck.

      • CuriousChris

        October 17, 2012 at 1:17 am

        Admin will have his email address. As a LENR consultant he must be well known within the industry.

        At 10,000 per hour he must be the best there is.

      • CuriousChris

        October 17, 2012 at 1:23 am

        He also uses this forum and was active yesterday

        • Loonyman

          October 17, 2012 at 5:35 am

          Perfect!!! Thank you guys!!!

          I live in Sweden myself, and after a little googling and such around the time of the bet I found his business address… ( It has nothing to do with LENR by the way! )It’s not so hard.
          I don’t suppose I stand much chance of collecting for the charity, but if I fail I will kick up a stink!! I believe in keeping ones word!

          Thanks again Guys,


    • Quax

      October 17, 2012 at 3:54 pm

      I remember that exchange but not the name of your counter party.

  14. JKW

    October 16, 2012 at 3:37 pm

    Prof. Dr. Eng. Rossi is making tremendous progress now. While working on improving his e-hot cat report, he is simultaneously engaged in behavioristic study of heat exchangers. His labs are on the move, too. Looks like Miami, FL is too hot for hot cats in fall season.

    October 16th, 2012 at 4:25 AM
    Dear Andrea Rossi,
    It could be that the Hot Cat behaves differently when put to real work, i.e. when the energy generated by it is utilized by transferring the heat efficiently away by fluid, air stream or by conduction. Do you see any problems with controlling that? Has it been tested already? Any views on this aspect?

    Andrea Rossi
    October 16th, 2012 at 6:11 AM
    Dear Seppo:
    Good point. We are working already with heat exchangers, using the primary and the secondary circuit and the behaviour is stable. Obviously the temperature in the circuits of the heat exchanger depends on the flow rate. BUT: we cannot yet say we are ready, even if the real efficiency we are obtaining ( also today in Ferrara ) are much better than what has been indicated in Pordenone; I have underprofiled the results, to be conservative: very much so.

    • LCD

      October 16, 2012 at 5:38 pm

      It’s amazing how one person interprets it as a sane comment by a careful engineer and the other sees tom foolery.

      • Bigwilly

        October 16, 2012 at 5:48 pm

        Who is the Engineer?

        Are you referring to Rossi? I thought his degree came from a laughable diploma mill?

        Along the same vein I had two PhD’s rapid prototyped the other day. They are made from SLA but they should be just as good or better than Dr/Ing/Eng/Prof Rossi’s degree.


        • LCD

          October 16, 2012 at 6:23 pm

          Wow another grown up comment.

          Wasting my time.

          • JKW

            October 16, 2012 at 6:44 pm

            LCD, may I ask who was the grown up commenter initially?

          • Bigwilly

            October 16, 2012 at 7:16 pm

            Hey LCD,

            Lighten up.

            Just some funnies.

            “LENR is serious business”


    • John Milstone

      October 17, 2012 at 11:20 am

      Prof. Dr. Eng. Rossi is making tremendous progress now.

      So he claims. He still hasn’t provided a shred of actual evidence.

      • LCD

        October 18, 2012 at 6:47 pm

        If you really believe that then why are you here dude?

        • John Milstone

          October 18, 2012 at 9:21 pm

          If you really believe that then why are you here dude?

          It’s fun to watch the True Believers squirm as month after month pass without any signs of legitimacy.

          The psychology of LENR is far more interesting than the physics of LENR.

  15. Dale G. Basgall

    October 16, 2012 at 4:10 pm

    Has anyone posting ever seen a bill of sale for one of these hot cats or e-cats? It would be nice to see just one bill of sale.

    Delivery date is not important, sales price final to the purchaser is important as well as the warranty to the purchaser.

    I would like to see the name on the product, a name for the purchaser and a name for the seller.

    There should be quite a few receipts floating around if they actually intend to sell them.

    I have personally witnessed this happening whereas the manufacturer was developing a product and the demand was high after the marketing department produced sales catalogs and sent them to all the regular distributors. Orders came in by the hundreds and 6 months later the product had been refined and was in manufacturing but at that point people were calling the factory every day mad because they expected a product right away because it was in the catalog.

    E-Cat must be the same way, Rossi had a mock up product he showed us, gave us a round about inexpensive price compared to a regular conventional portable generator (kw) and made the information public. At that point I would bet that orders were taken and there is some database somewhere with that info.

    What is really alarming about these CEO’s like Rossi is they usually have three set’s of books at minimum.

    First the true set with all the info, (CEO’s safe) , then the set for the regulatory agencies, and a set for the manufacturing plant general business. So the only set you will likely never see is the true story the CEO keeps safe.

    So there has to be a long trail of paperwork locked up somewhere here. It will only take one sales receipt or intent to sell, hopefully someone will copy it and publish it for us to see.

    • JKW

      October 16, 2012 at 4:46 pm

      “Has anyone posting ever seen a bill of sale for one of these hot cats or e-cats”
      Dale, I assume this is a rhetorical question…

      • dragonX

        October 16, 2012 at 5:33 pm

        Why rhetorical question, JKW? Not that it is wrong if it was rhetorical, but why it is IMPOSSIBLE in your mind for this question to be anything else than rhetorical?
        I understand that you are skeptical (me too) but you seem to have a certainty in your scientific opinions against Rossi work that borders illogical reasoning.

        I wonder what do you think of Celani’s work?
        What is really puzzling for modern age is that some people still think we know everything about a certain field, when in fact we know very little and even that small knowledge is flawed, as in opposite to perfect knowledge. Even in simple practical things we don’t have all the parameters. In fact we have so little control on what parameters we acknowledge and what not that when talking science, we should certainly be afraid of talking absolutes.
        Don’t you think?

        So normal reasoning should be:
        1. Rossi is possible to be scam but it is not until proven.
        2. Rossi is possible to be real cold fusion inventor but it is not until proven.

        • JKW

          October 16, 2012 at 7:48 pm

          You asked some serious questions. I will try to answer without my inborn sarcasm, despite the genetic problems I have to deal with.
          I hope it will not bore you to death…

          First: Rossi is not a scammer, until proven.?
          I am also a scammer but i don’t take moms and pops money, just hamster breeders’.

          Second, PetrolDragon.
          What the f*** to do we do with the accumulated stuff?

          Third, the thermoelectric device… You can read about it if your Internet plan allows it.

          My momma (as opposed to GZ’s) taught me one simple rule: “once a scammer, always a scammer”

          Reconcile your facts, man.

          • JKW

            October 16, 2012 at 7:57 pm

            Wow, I feel ashamed now. A decent man asking decent questions.. What do I look like now? Andrea Rossi?

    • John Milstone

      October 17, 2012 at 11:22 am

      Rossi also promised to release the identities of his “franchisees” at his “convention” last month.

      He has not done so.

      It would be fascinating to talk to them and compare what Rossi told them versus what Rossi told the world, but I guess Rossi doesn’t want that happening.

  16. LCD

    October 16, 2012 at 5:31 pm

    @Frank I wouldn’t worry about it. If Rossi does eventually sell to industry a working ecat based generator of any kind, then I can almost guarantee you that there will be a working home do it yourself kit on the market.

    Whether it’s the black market or Amazon I don’t know.

    Unfortunately you may also have to start worrying about your neighbors producing stray neutrons if the rumors about them are true at high COPs.

    Either way I guarantee this for sure. If Rossi manages to get a credible third party positive report out, then you will not be able to predict the changes that will occur worldwide.

    But maybe nothing happens because I think for the third party “university” report credibility will hinge on its replicability. And since nobody will (I’m assuming) be allowed to replicate it according to proper scientific method, it won’t convince the world. A live self sustaining demo would convince a lot though as a substitute. How will he address replicability? Who knows.

    But will we see a report sometime soon?

    Let’s face it, for the promise of cheap energy, believers and optimists will continue to wait forever for the magic proof from Rossi. And the skeptics who prey and feed on them will continue to hang around the food supply. So that means we’re right where we are today.

    Rossi can keep this going for a long time.

    If it were me I’d try building one myself with the time spent blogging or I’d support somebody who is i.e. the MFMP.

    Waiting for Rossi could be long.

    • MaxS

      October 16, 2012 at 7:04 pm

      Why should we trust a single word Rossi is telling ?
      it is already obvious that the pending report of last weeks pre-announced results won’t qualify as 3rd party independent test since Rossi supervised the tests, at his premises.
      That applies for the work presented last week and for the zurich tests.
      Rossi should deliver one module or a whole 1MW unit to a university or testing company. They must have full control over the testing. Only then it would qualify as independent test. If it then passes we can talk more seriously. Anything sub-par is just another dog and pony show.

  17. RonB

    October 16, 2012 at 7:59 pm

    Some people plan ahead!

  18. Thicket

    October 16, 2012 at 8:45 pm

    Many years ago my parole officer suggested that I get a hobby. I decided to become a cold fusion enthusiast.

    My first foray into cold fusion was quite successful. It started in a dingy bar in Rimini, Italy. I was expounding about life with a retired NATO Colonel. After a few drinks, Harland became very morose and introspective. He talked about his days in a secret NATO unit. He protected the world’s financial well-being by seeking out and neutralizing disruptive cold fusion technology.

    After a few more drinks, Harland tugged on his white goatee, adjusted his glasses and confided that he had absconded with powder samples of a secret cold fusion catalyst. There were eleven components in the powder. He was down on his luck, and would sell the powder to me for a mere 1,000 Euros. He suggested smoking, inhaling, injecting or ingesting the powder.

    The Colonel seemed to be as honest a man as I was, so I readily agreed. I wrote him a phony cheque and departed with my prize.

    As a clean-cut, healthy man, I didn’t want to subject my body to the Colonel’s eleven secret herbs and apices. I pondered what else I could do with the cold fusion catalyst.

    One fateful evening it struck me full in the face. I was siphoning gasoline from my neighbour’s car. I used a match to see how much fuel was left in the tank. That’s when I had my epiphany.

    Awakening a few days later I recalled my flash insight. After being discharged, I rushed home. I dumped the cold fusion catalyst into my car’s gas tank. It was a miracle! I drove that car for a week without using any fuel. The fuel gauge needle never moved once. I drove in all conditions including a couple of high speed getaways, being chased by people who obviously mistook me for some lowlife criminal.

    Early in the second week the car mysteriously stopped at a very inopportune time. After my destitute grandmother posted my bail, I had the car towed to a local garage. I told the mechanic to check the car out. He was to drain the gas tank into a container. I planned to have the fuel analyzed so that I could identify the eleven secret components.

    Returning to the garage the next day, I realized that the mechanic was part of the world-wide conspiracy to suppress cold fusion. He told me that the fuel tank was already empty. He said that he had fixed my faulty fuel gauge.

    Alas, I had no more secret catalyst. To my surprise, no one believed my story. It’s shameful that folks will ignore an upstanding man’s claims to solve the world’s energy problems. I gave up my cold fusion ideals for a paying job debunking all cold fusion claims. If you can’t beat them, join them.

    I do have some additional insight. A magnet is part of the locksmith tools that I carry with me at all times. The secret catalyst had been attracted to the magnet. I surmise that the catalyst included nickel powder.

    • daniel maris

      October 16, 2012 at 9:48 pm

      I prefer the Master rather than his Apprentice.

      • Quax

        October 17, 2012 at 4:01 pm

        Could have fooled me. If the General manages to release the novelist qualities in other posters than this site may yet have a life after Rossi 🙂

    • General Zaroff

      October 16, 2012 at 11:01 pm

      Thank you for sharing a bit about yourself Thicket, I think I understand you a little better now. But I am a little disappointed to hear that you used to siphon gas from your neighbour’s car. That is surely a crime, even in that lawless arctic wasteland of a country you call home. I thought you were better than that.

      • Thicket

        October 17, 2012 at 2:02 am

        Siphoning my neighbour’s gas was fully justified. I had borrowed his snow blower and the bounder didn’t have the decency to ensure that the gas tank was full. I had to buy my own gas!! It was only right that I recovered my costs by taking gas from his car.

    • kapytanhook

      October 18, 2012 at 6:49 pm

      Comments like these make ecatnews still worth following.

  19. lcd

    October 16, 2012 at 10:10 pm

    Max even if completely independent he’s got to show its replicable more than once. How’s he going to do that.

    A self sustained demo would be nice

    • MaxS

      October 17, 2012 at 8:44 am

      LCD, you are of course right. Replication is required, eventually.
      But one step after the other. As a first step I am awaiting a single substantiated independent test report that would confirm this is all real. Independent means, as explained above, experts skilled in the art, who are not associated with Mr. Inventor, not just attending passively while Rossi/Fabiani run the experiment. It means these experts have full control during the test while using their own input power supply and own output measurement devices.
      This is just to rule out any possible manipulation. Mr Inventor has a history of selling non working devices, he was convicted for fraud, that is why the standards can´t be high enough.
      However, Rossi failed to allow real 3rd party tests. I wonder why. The talking about IP protection is nonsense. They can test as a black box. Mr Rossi or Mr Fabiani may attend from safe distance. The ongoing distraction with the hot cat makes it even more suspicious. The good old domestic e-cat or 1MW unit would serve this purpose for 3rd party test. A device of which Mr. Inventor, the self proclaimed savior of the world´s energy problems, claims is ready for the market. What the heck is he waiting for ?
      But Rossi continues the hot cat dog and pony show, now claiming a COP of 12. Well, 2 years ago he claimed a COP over 100 and Ni to Cu transmutations in his pseudo-scientific paper, and he never provided any credible experimental data to support this claim.
      I wonder could this be only in the imagination of Mr Rossi and his closest associates feeding the surrealistic dreams of his fans, licencees and investors ?
      Take the tests that took place during recent weeks. I wonder is there even one qualified technical person, who is not associated with Mr. Inventor, who has witnessed and confirms this is real ? With qualified I mean somebody who is qualified to judge the experimental design and claimed excess heat from experimental data.

      • Voodoo

        October 17, 2012 at 4:11 pm

        “What the heck is he waiting for ?”

        I long have hypothesis, that old low-temp 1MW e-cats have prolonged serious flaw.

        Neverending instabilities or some hydrogen leak or some schmutzig/weareness or so.

        Mr. Inventor know these flaws,so he prioritize not ready Hot Cats.

        Or he hope for some patent issue within 2-3 months, so he plays delaying childish games.

        I don’t see other logic.

        I hope that somebody quiet and intellectualy far superior as Hugh Deasy team will overthrown him and outaccelerated him.

        He deserve this for his hundreds lies and unethical theatre with millions preorders of home-cat, which was crazy.

        He not want sell home-cats, really.

      • LCD

        October 17, 2012 at 10:00 pm

        I think that’s my point Max. Who is truly an independent tester for you, for anybody, for something as extraordinary as this.

        For the people that are close to Mr. Tester the independent test may be enough, but not for you and me.

        That will be the argument made, testers independence, regardless of what he puts out.

        This will happen because of F&P until many independent replications occur.

        • MaxS

          October 18, 2012 at 10:20 am

          @Voodoo – I agree, delays may be because of serious design flaws. Or it may be because the whole thing was imaginary from the beginning and a grand scale investor fraud. Perhaps “Mr Inventor” saw the developments of Piantelli et al. and thought that is a nice wave to ride on for fame and money.
          @LCD – we are on the same page here.
          I wonder what his licencees think about it. people like Roger Green, hydrofusion or the Germans. They must be getting really nervous about what happens to their money.

          • LCD

            October 18, 2012 at 6:21 pm

            keep asking what are the terms of those contracts but nobody knows

          • John Milstone

            October 18, 2012 at 9:19 pm

            I wonder what his licencees think about it.

            Especially since Rossi was claiming to be selling Megawatt E-Cats since last January (with a 3-month delivery, meaning they should have been in the field since March/April).

        • John Milstone

          October 18, 2012 at 1:29 pm

          Who is truly an independent tester for you, for anybody, for something as extraordinary as this.

          Any major university, standards organization or major corporation would work.

          If NASA or MIT or UL or Coca Cola were to step forward and claim that they had an E-Cat and that their tests demonstrated excess heat, that would go long way to convincing me that there really was something there.

          However, individuals who happen to work for such organizations don’t necessarily qualify. There have been too individuals who work for impressive organizations, and even have impressive credentials, who are less than credible (Josephson is a good example).

          We are still waiting for any signs of an actual independent test of the E-Cat that showed positive results. The SGS certification is based solely on a visual inspection, and the applicable standards only apply to the safety of the device (i.e. no sharp edges, emergency stop button, etc.). The Swedish Standards organization found no signs of excess heat.

          And, of course, we haven’t seen the actual reports from either organization.

          • LCD

            October 18, 2012 at 6:28 pm

            In the broadest sense this is what you just said.

            If a major university, standards org, corp, or NASA or MIT or UL etc were to do it, it would go a long way…

            However a major university, standards org, corp, or NASA or MIT or UL etc don’t necessarily qualify.

            Those organizations are made up of people who happen to work there.

            Your vexed, and you made my point.

          • John Milstone

            October 18, 2012 at 9:16 pm

            However a major university, standards org, corp, or NASA or MIT or UL etc don’t necessarily qualify.

            Intentionally misquoting me doesn’t help your case.

            There is a significant difference between a single person making a claim, and the company they work for making that same claim.

            Joseph Newman has statements from NASA employees stating that his perpetual motion gadget works. I’m willing to bet that NASA isn’t willing to back him up. And I’m willing to bet that Newman’s gadget doesn’t actually work, either. []

      • Auenland

        October 18, 2012 at 10:18 am

        wonderful comment.
        I wrote a similar comment about the 3rd party verification on ecatworld, but it wasn’t allowed.
        Being an engineer myself and knowing lots of university professors and staff, i’m confident that i could find 10 institutes within 2 hours, who would make a test in one single afternoon for free, while Rossi can be present and observe that nobody opens his device and within 48 hours we would have SCIENTIFIC test results spreading through the world, backed by independent scientists.

        Instead Rossi hides in his “factories” and blames others for the delays.

        • MaxS

          October 18, 2012 at 10:28 am

          indeed I enjoyed some of your comments at e-catworld. The forum over there is dominated by hard core Rossarians (or call them true believers if you prefer), their admin is one-sided, and the allowed contributions are one-sided, too. They don´t like controversial discussions.
          At one point I even thought e-catworld is Mr.R´s marketing department. I mean Mr.R sends them all updates for publication instead of using his own channels. That should tell you something.

  20. Alexvs

    October 17, 2012 at 7:59 am

    Speaking about serious matters should not exclude some glimpses of humour. I had a very good time reading General Zaroff and Thicket’s stories. Thank you all heartly.

  21. MaxS

    October 17, 2012 at 9:16 am

    Ampenergo is supposed to be the exclusive licencee for the USA. Rossarians claim that the association with them is strong “circumstantial evidence” that all of this e-cat saga must be real.
    Well, their website ( does not really look anywhere near like this company would be prepared to kick off the energy revolution in order to save the planet. My 8 year old daugther could set up such a website in 15 min.
    I wonder does this company really exist ? Anybody made some research on this ?

    • CuriousChris

      October 17, 2012 at 10:10 am

      Last I looked ampenergo was no longer incorporated. they let their company filing lapse last year.

      • John Milstone

        October 17, 2012 at 11:34 am

        Last I looked ampenergo was no longer incorporated. they let their company filing lapse last year.

        It’s worse than that. They didn’t just allow the company to “die”. They actively killed it. It was listed as “Inactive” just a few months after it was created. It would have stayed “Active” for a full year unless they took specific actions to kill it.

        Their pathetic little web site hasn’t been touched in over a year, and when I checked, their email was being bounced back.

        That, as much as anything, ought to concern any United States-based investors (or franchisees, for those who think this is a significant distinction).

        • MaxS

          October 17, 2012 at 12:44 pm

          WTF, so Rossi has no distributor for the United States, or did I miss something ?
          Anyway, one does not need a distributor for products that do not exist.

          • Voodoo

            October 17, 2012 at 3:51 pm

            No, no. This product is selling itself.

          • Ivy Matt

            October 18, 2012 at 10:25 am

            I thought Home Depot was supposed to be his U.S. distributor. 😉

        • Voodoo

          October 17, 2012 at 3:57 pm


          These AMPenergy folks know one trick:

          they connected their old comrades with big boys in big old energy sectors.

          AMPenergo vanished because these “consultants” already understand one important thing:

          Big energy ecosystem will die, without hope.

          Within 6-8 years. And market value will go south much sooner.

          Salute Slovenia

  22. spacegoat

    October 17, 2012 at 10:53 am

    Hopefully the Martin Fleischman Memorial Project will trump Rossi clownery by distributing ground-up built Celani experiments to universities world-wide. Skeptics may then switch the on button ON and perform all the calorimetry they desire. This will mean the ecat has meowed its last meow.

    • buffalo

      October 17, 2012 at 11:38 am

      mm.i wonder when MFMP will get round to doing the celani wire thing.they seem to be finished a controll test nw.

      • spacegoat

        October 17, 2012 at 12:41 pm

        Almost immediately. A second run of calibration was not performed in the US because NicheEnergy in Europe, who will test in parallel, wish to start their own calibration asap. So instead of a second calibration, the unit was packaged for sending instead.

        • Ivan Mohorovicic

          October 17, 2012 at 5:04 pm

          NichEnergy has nothing to do with this. They will be sending one of their Celani replications to Nicolas Chauvin of LENR-Cars, Switzerland.

    • Ivan Mohorovicic

      October 17, 2012 at 5:02 pm

      Please note that besides the MFMP HUG Group, Dr. Celani has sent active wires to various research groups inside and outside Europe, for testing with different methodologies so that the chance of experimental error will be greatly reduced.

  23. Harry Perini

    October 17, 2012 at 5:21 pm

    I just received my home ecat.

    Wonderful device.

    Thank you Andrea Rossi

    I am canceling my expensive propane deliveries.

    You are the greatest Andrea

    Warm regards to you.

    • JNewman

      October 17, 2012 at 6:29 pm

      Congratulations Harry! I hope you enjoy it for years to come.

      • Frank

        October 17, 2012 at 6:54 pm

        … and Harry, check your electricity metering.
        By using an electric heater your electricity bill will get much higher than your propane-gas bill. 😉

    • Bigwilly

      October 17, 2012 at 8:12 pm

      That’s cool but I received an Orbo that is even better.

      • buffalo

        October 18, 2012 at 8:32 am

        an orbo is a weak violation of 2nd law thermodynamics,just an illustration,u want a hephaheat my man,much more useful.

    • Ivy Matt

      October 18, 2012 at 3:26 pm

      Hm…does Rossi know he’s shipping home E-Cats already?

  24. Paul Stout

    October 17, 2012 at 5:36 pm

    Other than Rossi, does anybody know of another scammer / con artist with an engineering degree?

    I’ve done some searches on google but have not been able to come up with any.

    • Al Potenza

      October 17, 2012 at 5:40 pm

      Are you somehow suggesting that an engineering degree protects against fraud, LOL?

      Sean MacCarthy of Steorn, IIRC, has an engineering degree and his nose is longer than Pinnochio’s. Many of the crooks and scammers featured regularly by Sterling Allen in his “free energy” blog have degrees and I am sure some are engineering degrees.

      What was your point?

    • Bigwilly

      October 17, 2012 at 5:44 pm

      Rossi doesn’t have one either, unless you counting the rapid prototyped ones then nevermind.


  25. daniel maris

    October 17, 2012 at 6:12 pm

  26. Dick Smith

    October 17, 2012 at 6:32 pm

    Harry quick send you ecat to the local university and when they confirm it works you can share with them the $1m. I have my pen ready!

    • RonB

      October 17, 2012 at 8:02 pm

      A long time ago you made the comment that you really didn’t have much faith in LENR being real (or something like that) and I wonder if you’ve changed your mind.
      I am pretty sure where you stand wrt the Italian (and I’m starting to agree with you) but am still curious about your opinion on LENR.

  27. Mickey

    October 17, 2012 at 7:10 pm

    Zurich Conference Papers Available

  28. GreenWin

    October 17, 2012 at 8:24 pm

    “I’ve expected this day,”says Christopher Paine, head of the nuclear program at the Natural Resources Defense Council, an environmental group in Washington, D.C. “A number of experts have predicted it would be a boondoggle. Solid-state lasers are a dead end.” Science, 9/23/2012 “Ignition Facility Misses Goal, Ponders New Course”

    “With each failure in hot fusion, cold fusion becomes the greater reality.” Gnl. Zarcofagus, IGZ-2013

    • JNewman

      October 17, 2012 at 10:16 pm

      “With each failure in hot fusion, cold fusion becomes the greater reality.”

      Award-winning example of boneheaded thinking.

      • GreenWin

        October 17, 2012 at 10:55 pm

        Admittedly, a catchy phrase. The Generale has a way with words. It would seem the science journals see the biggest boneheads to be fusionistas!

    • Ivy Matt

      October 18, 2012 at 3:36 pm

      Does it work the other way around as well?

  29. spacegoat

    October 18, 2012 at 7:49 am

    Posted on “the other site”

    “Bob Greenyer on October 17, 2012 at 4:57 pm

    As we are agnostic here at MFMP and our goal is to prove and promote the New Fire, I felt it important to share that Piantelli has had his US patent application published with just prior art dating back to 2008.

    Interesting times.”

    Piantelli, confident in his work, has written a patent with full disclosure of art and technicalities. Unlike his competitor who writes in generalities about secret sauce (catalyst). Obviously a sauce patent can only be granted in Italy. “Sauce” conjures up nostalgia for mama and pasta, and automatically the patent goes through.

    Were Piantelli to be granted this patent would it undo Rossi’s plans for world domination?

    • buffalo

      October 18, 2012 at 8:46 am

      yeah piantelli went into some great detail in that patent,made alot of effort i see.luck may favour him yet.

    • MaxS

      October 18, 2012 at 8:52 am

      it is A1 patent stage, means not yet examined and not yet granted. Even Rossi got to this stage.

    • daniel maris

      October 18, 2012 at 9:14 am

      I imagine in that scenario there would be the usual legal ding dong making lawyers rich and ending up in an agreement to divide the spoils.

  30. Voodoo

    October 18, 2012 at 9:56 am

    Folks, is there some volunteer, who have access to last issue of Popular Science and is capable note here in blog some 2-3 most interesant sentences from article about Rossi, which was not been previously published elsewhere ?

  31. Dick Smith

    October 18, 2012 at 10:53 am

    RonB I quote again my view. It’s taken from the $1 m link at the top of this blog. My views have not changed. Why should I doubt a top scientist?

    “In regard to LENR I am most inclined to accept the view of Prof Ekstrom which is similar to the views of many other scientists I have spoken to. When asked if there was any evidence that LENR demonstrations were credible Prof Ekstrom. Deputy Head of the Nuclear Physics Division of the Dept of Physics Lund University Sweden stated “No. Some cases are simply deliberate bluff, some are poor experiments and some are small effects consistent with a null effect”.

    • spacegoat

      October 18, 2012 at 12:06 pm

      So you spoke to one guy and trust him implicitly.
      Nobel laureate in physics Josephson says otherwise.
      And why would you pass up on the *** possibility *** for achieving your idea of population reduction through economic development that new energy will bring?

    • Tyler

      October 18, 2012 at 12:52 pm


      Why should you doubt a random 67 yr old “top” scientist who has not done ANY direct analysis or testing on LENR (other than watching and analyzing a Rossi video) and has spent his career working with hot fission/fusion energy?

      Perhaps you should ask a scientist/researcher who has actually tested LENR within the past few years their opinion. Here are a few of the deluded you can ask.

      Dr. Michael A Nelson, NASA LENR Space Applications Lead
      Gustave C. Fralick, Arthur J. Decker, and James W. Blue, NASA Lewis Research 
      Dennis Bushnell, NASA chief scientist LRC
      Dr. Joseph Zawodny, NASA senior research scientist LRC
      Brian Josephson, Nobel Prize Theoretical physics, Cambridge
      George Miley, University of Illinois, Department of Nuclear, Plasma, and Radiological Engineering
      Dr. Mike McKubre, SRI (Stanford Research Institute), Director Energy Research Center., University of Missouri
      Dr. Francis Tanzella, SRI, PhD chemistry, senior electrochemist
      Dr. Brian Ahern, Ames National Laboratory
      Edmund Storms, Los Alamos National Laboratory
      Dr. Mace, Los Alamos National Lab
      Professor Peter Hagelstein Electrical Engineering, MIT
      John Bockrus, electrochemist Texas A&M University
      Dr. Francesco Piantelli. University of Siena, Considered the father of modern LENR, filed original patents in 1995 for Ni/H based LENR
      Dr. Sergio Focardi, emeritus professor University of Bologna
      Dr. Giuseppe Levi , University of Bologna
      Dr.  David Bianchini, University of Bologna
      Dr. Christos Stremmenos, University of Bologna, Dept of. Physical and Inorganic Chemistry, retired
      Francesco Celani, National Institute of Nuclear Physics (Italy’s equivalent of Los Alamos)
      Dr. Frank Gordon, US Navy’s Space and Naval warfare systems (SPAWAR), retired
      Julian Schwinger, Nobel Laureate deceased
      Eugene Mallove, Professor of science MIT, deceased
      Dr. Sven Kullander, chairman of the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences’ Energy Committee, Professor emeritus High Energy Physics Uppsala University,
      Rob Duncan, University of Missouri, Chancellor of research,
      John Gahl, University of Missouri, Director Material Science Engineering.
      Sidney Kimmel, Billionaire philanthropist who donated $5.5m to U of Missouri to study LENR in Feb 2012
      Dr. Yeong E. Kim, professor physics Purdue University
      Prof. Koltick, Purdue University
      Prof. Reifenberger, Purdue University
      Hanno Essén, theoretical physicist Swedish Royal Institute of Technology, chairman Swedish skeptics society
      David J. Nagel, Professor of Engineering & Applied science George Washington University
      Dr. Andres, Purdue University
      Martin Fleischmann, deceased & Stanley Pons, University of Utah & Southampton, considered the fathers of LENR/Cold Fusion
      Akito Takahashi, Osaka University, retired professor 
      Professor Yoshiaki Arata, Osaka University
      Mitsubishi Heavy Industries / Toyota
      Professor Michael Melich, US Navy
      Allan Widom, prof. Northeastern University
      Lewis Larson, CEO Lattice Energy, LLC
      US Dept of Defense advanced research (DARPA)
      Professor Violante, ENEA
      Dr. Vladimir Vysotskii, Kiev National University, Head of physics department
      Dr. Iraj Parchamazad, Chairman of the Chemistry University of LaVerne
      Dr. T. W. Grimshaw, Energy Institute, University of Texas, Austin

      I have yet to identify one scientist who has actually tested LENR directly within the past 5 years say that it is not real.

      I get you guys are skeptical of Rossi and LENR+ in the short term, but come on, time to wake up that LENR is legit and worth pursuing further. If still in doubt, please re-read section #1 and let me know what I have wrong.


      • John Milstone

        October 18, 2012 at 1:18 pm

        I get you guys are skeptical of Rossi and LENR

        The favorite fallacy of the True Believer: If LENR is true, Rossi must be true as well.

        Firstly, it’s entirely possible that LENR is real and Rossi is a con man.

        Secondly, Smith is looking for commercially-useful LENR. No one on your list (other than the likely frauds) has come anywhere near that level. Milliwatt or low-watt output may be very interesting from a scientific standpoint, but there is no evidence that it can be scaled up to useful levels (regardless of the breathlessly optimistic proclamations of the True Believers). In fact, the lack of any significant progress in a quarter of a century suggests that either LENR doesn’t really exist, or that it is intrinsically limited to small power levels.

        Thirdly, at least a few of the experts on your list have made it clear that they don’t believe Rossi. Most of the rest have refrained from commenting, and none of them have confirmed anything Rossi has said. Even the ones to have spoken positively always include disclaimers (“assuming Rossi allows independent replication”, etc.). The True Believers consistently ignore those cautionary disclaimers.

        • Tyler

          October 18, 2012 at 1:45 pm


          I very much agree with you that LENR being true does not mean Rossi/LENR+ is true.

          Clearly if LENR is NOT true, Rossi is a Fraud. No doubt, not even a question. However, once you do accept LENR being true, at least at low power gain, it provides a window that Rossi/Brillouin/DGT may not be a Fraud.

          Thus, LENR being true or not is VERY relevant, which is why I keep coming back to it.

          I believe it is time to accept LENR (at least at low power) as fact and move FORWARD. I would think LENR, even at low power, is the most interesting and exciting new thing to fall in physicists lap in the last 50 years and they would embrace it and the questions, impossibles it brings. Yes, even at low power!


          • John Milstone

            October 18, 2012 at 3:27 pm

            I believe it is time to accept LENR (at least at low power) as fact and move FORWARD.

            It isn’t our job to “accept” anything. It’s the job of the LENR supporters to “prove” it. And they have done a lousy job of it so far.

            If there was a solid theory of LENR, we might be able to get past the lack of solid experimentation.

            If there was solid experimental evidence of LENR, we could get past the lack of theory.

            But we don’t have either.

          • Quax

            October 18, 2012 at 4:52 pm

            It isn’t our job to “accept” anything. It’s the job of the LENR supporters to “prove” it. And they have done a lousy job of it so far.

            Amen to that, John Milstone.

            That is why I tried to talk Dick into structuring his price money more along an actual X-price grant, when he first made his offer on this board.

            E.g. how about a cool $100,000 to somebody who can generate independently verified excess energy over a time span that conclusively rules out a chemical origin.

            I.e. let’s initially forget about commercially usable energy and just get these basics covered first.

            This alone would still be quite sensational. Of course there are many claimants of having experimental LENR set-ups of this kind but it’s anything but settled science. Dick may very well keep his money even if the bar was lowered to this level (not that I expect him to entertain the idea).

      • Thicket

        October 18, 2012 at 1:42 pm

        I’m more than willing to accept that LENR is real and a useful phenomena if there was proof. I don’t follow LENR except by osmosis from this site. I do read headlines. So far I’ve seen nothing compelling to entice me to follow LENR. A list of names won’t do it. It’s the classic ‘appeal to authority’ debating fallacy. I’ve seen it many times. It’s a red flag indicating a weak argument.

        • Tyler

          October 18, 2012 at 1:54 pm


          I agree with you, a list of names is definitely NOT sufficient. So here is my full argument about LENR being 100% real, at least at low power gain:

          See section #1. Please post specifics of what I have incorrect in my argument or flawed in my logic or reasoning.

          I feel a bit of deja vu about this conversation, not sure why. please look through the telescope this time.


          • JNewman

            October 18, 2012 at 2:44 pm

            I certainly don’t speak for Thicket, but I would trade your multiple pages of testimonials and citations for one fully-documented, careful, and thorough experiment that can be reproduced. Celani is promising that, but it hasn’t happened yet. Everything else in your “proof” is just more of the same sort of stuff that has been floating around for over 20 years. Lots of “breakthroughs” by researchers who somehow never follow up on their successful work with more progress but instead show up months or years later doing something completely different. This sort of scattershot reporting may be suggestive but is very far from “proof” of anything.

      • daniel maris

        October 18, 2012 at 8:44 pm

        Brilliant riposte Tyler. Don’t expect any reasoned argument regarding your list.

        Also, for your list – not sure if you have whoever it was at Amoco back in the early 90s who found LENR to be real as well.

      • ts

        October 19, 2012 at 3:01 am

        Name dropping 101. Have any of these scientists submitted their experiments to NREL or a similar national testing institute for 100% verification? If they haven’t, then ask your self why not?

  32. Auenland

    October 18, 2012 at 12:34 pm

    Since here are lots of rationale and intelligent people present, i want to inform you about the best article about Rossi’s strange E-Cat-business i have ever read.
    It reads like thriller and it contains lots of forensic evidence.
    Must read:

    • Tyler

      October 18, 2012 at 1:12 pm

      I gotta tell ya, every time I got to ShutdownRossi I come away more convinced Rossi may actually be legit.

      Is that the best they have against Rossi? You guys are claiming he is the next Bernie Maddoff, there should be dirt all over or at least someone inside willing to spill a couple beans? All I see is pretty much anyone who meets Rossi and sees his device in action either partners with him, sets up a company to compete against him or pushes forward with theory or development of LENR.

      I am not defending Rossi or saying I am sure he has the goods, like all of you it is wait and see, although I am certainly more optimistic given what I saw and heard at ICCF-17.

      Gary, I applaud your dedication here, but how about putting your time and effort into supporting LENR and potentially changing the world rather than trying to debunk Rossi and save some sucker investor, or whatever your goal is.

      Check out for a good cause worth supporting.


      • daniel maris

        October 18, 2012 at 1:19 pm

        I agree entirely Tyler. Madoff was able to evade accusation for years. Rossi has been subject to accusation since first he came on the LENR scene. No doubt someone (no prizes for guessing at least one person) will have been reporting him to every regulatory body in the field in the hope they can find something on him.

        If he is a scammer he is I still maintain an exceptionally clever one. However, as time passes, more positive evidence emerges and no denunciations from close associates are brought to light, I think scamming becomes a less likely explanation.

      • John Milstone

        October 18, 2012 at 3:13 pm

        there should be dirt all over or at least someone inside willing to spill a couple beans?

        That is not what we’ve seen in every other scam I’ve read about.

        It’s not the “insiders” who turn in the scam artist. It’s the investors who finally get fed up (after years) of the complete lack of progress or profits.

        A perfect example is Carl Tilley. His “assistant” didn’t turn him in. His assistant instead claimed that Tilley stole the (fraudulent) invention from him. I’m not sure whether this was to try to set up his own con, or whether it was to make Tilley’s fraudulent claims seem more “valuable” (since the assistant was trying to “steal” it).

      • MaxS

        October 18, 2012 at 3:22 pm

        Tyler, you say “All I see is pretty much anyone who meets Rossi and sees his device in action either partners with him, sets up a company to compete against him” .
        You raise an important question. I think you need to see who are these people, what is their background and motivation. See, the people associated with Mr. R. are no technical experts. I doubt they would be qualified to judge what is happening in front of their eyes. They might just smell money and fame.
        Just take Mr. R´s technical director Fabiani (an IT guy in gaming industry), or take the licencees (Swiss: esoteric energy and perpetuum mobile promoter, Germany: used car dealer, US: no more existing company, Italy: a non technical person, hydrofusion: withdrew etc. etc). There is not a single technical expert in physics we know who works with Leonardo Corp (besides Mr R himself). Not even one. If you know otherwise, please tell us.
        Further, the external supporting experts and professors either don´t want to know what is going on (Focardi), or did not pay proper attention, or even found contradicting data (e.g. natural isotope ratio), or are hardly known experts in side affairs (such as radioactiviy measurements) but no thermodynamics or nuclear physicists experts. Sorry to say, this does not convince me at all.

        • MaxS

          October 18, 2012 at 3:35 pm

          whoever should be interested, here are some more details on the young fellow who measured the radiactivity.
          David Bianchini (
          Medical Physicist (University of Bologna)
          perhaps the only one who is somewhat qualified but not directly in LENR, and very young guy.
          watch this:

          • John Milstone

            October 18, 2012 at 9:05 pm

            It’s also worth noting that David Bianchini’s report makes it clear that he found no signs of any nuclear process going on.

            Somehow, the True Believers seem to think that this proves that some nuclear process is going on.

    • daniel maris

      October 18, 2012 at 1:15 pm

      Thanks Gary!

    • Auenland

      October 18, 2012 at 1:23 pm

      I’m deeply sorry, i posted only the link to the newspage, not the article:

      Here’s the thriller:

      • Methusela

        October 18, 2012 at 1:29 pm

        Your latest hate page isn’t loading from the UK at the present time. Either that or it’s been blocked by our firewall.

        • Auenland

          October 18, 2012 at 3:49 pm

          My page? Are you crazy?

    • captain kirk

      October 18, 2012 at 3:03 pm

      So now according to Gary Wright Mats Lewen and Sterling Allen are “partners” of Rossi Sure you have to be not rational and stupid to believe what he posts

      • Auenland

        October 18, 2012 at 4:03 pm

        Have you at least read the article?
        Nothing to say about the forensic evidence of the continued Hydrofusion connection (the metadata in the pics)?
        About the great overview of the broken promises?
        About the brilliant questions?

        I find it very interesting, how extremely well founded, rationale and good articles, are received among a certain audience, while dumbass claims without any evidences but only supporting what the audience WANTS to hear, are judged being much more impressive.

        • Dale G. Basgall

          October 18, 2012 at 5:30 pm

          Auenland your comment statement,
          “I find it very interesting, how extremely well founded, rationale and good articles, are received among a certain audience, while dumbass claims without any evidences but only supporting what the audience WANTS to hear, are judged being much more impressive.”

          Is a great evaluation on the current status observation of the monkey kin. I now believe that some of us have evolved from apes. It’s called mob mentality, “Like a bee hive”. People like action, something to catalyze the LENR in all of us. Like looking at a beautiful woman from eyes looking for thought, for example.

        • LCD

          October 18, 2012 at 7:52 pm

          So I read it. He basically takes the events of the last few weeks and weaves this intricate and unbelievable story together.

          Oh and he throws in Metadata of the documents available on-line that as far as I can tell show nothing out of the ordinary.

          But it looks cool.

          • CuriousChris

            October 18, 2012 at 11:01 pm

            Most of us here no the sad tale so to us it appears trivial and ‘stale’ It wasnt written for us.

            one thing which it did show was as of August 15th, 2012 at 9:02 PM Rossi still proclaimed Ampenergo as being the American Distributor more than 12 months after Ampenergo closed its metaphysical doors.

            When MaxS asked the question about Ampenergo above I wondered why he thought that. Obviously because Rossi is still pushing this most obvious lie

      • MaxS

        October 18, 2012 at 4:19 pm

        Captain, I also do not understand why you draw this conclusion.
        The website basically says they supported Rossi, and possibly have been cheated, too.
        Lewan writes “we have decided basically not to do any further reports until there’s a reliable test made by an independent group, preferably on an independent location, which could add something substantial.”
        He is absolutely right. Nothing to add to this.

      • Mickey

        October 18, 2012 at 4:56 pm

        @captain kirk
        “So now according to Gary Wright Mats Lewen and Sterling Allen are “partners” of Rossi Sure you have to be not rational and stupid to believe what he posts”
        Have you read Sterling Allan’s pages?
        Sterling has stated over and over on his own website that he has a financial partnership with Rossi.
        Gary needs to further clarify why he thinks Mats Lewan is a partner.

  33. General Zaroff

    October 18, 2012 at 5:10 pm

    Hey Tyler,

    Before I go read your page about proff of LENR, can you tell me does it present proof in the scientific sense of the word, or proof in the LENR sense of the word?

    • JNewman

      October 18, 2012 at 5:12 pm

      By that I presume you mean the theorem that if you can’t provide one good argument, provide 100 bad ones.

      • General Zaroff

        October 18, 2012 at 5:38 pm


    • Dale G. Basgall

      October 18, 2012 at 5:39 pm

      General what site is that on, the proof, either science or LENR? Is there proof of anything that others say other then thin vibrating air in the present as they are saying it?

      • General Zaroff

        October 18, 2012 at 5:51 pm

        Somewhere up above Tyler has posted a link to his page with proof. I was just asking what I can expect to find there before I bother to read it. I think I will not read it to maintain a certain degree of plausible deniability.

  34. GreenWin

    October 18, 2012 at 5:24 pm

    World’s largest laser misses nuclear fusion deadline

    “Bad news for stir power. The world’s largest laser has missed a deadline that was key to its goal of producing safe, clean energy via nuclear fusion, the same process that powers the sun.”

    “With each failure in hot fusion, cold fusion becomes the greater reality.” Gnl. Zarcofagus, IGZ-2013

    • JNewman

      October 18, 2012 at 5:31 pm

      Not to rain on your parade, GW, but your little tag line linking hot fusion and cold fusion is like a megaphone yelling that you have no capacity for critical thinking. But perhaps that is your intention.

      • GreenWin

        October 18, 2012 at 5:39 pm

        Admittedly, a catchy phrase. The Generale does have a way with words. But I agree, he should’ve obtained informed consent! Lesson learned?

        • General Zaroff

          October 18, 2012 at 5:54 pm

          Which Generale are you referring to? I find this more confusing than father’s day at my sister’s house.

        • JNewman

          October 18, 2012 at 5:54 pm

          Perhaps if you had your dosage adjusted it would be better.

          • General Zaroff

            October 18, 2012 at 6:12 pm

            Now I can’t tell if you mean that I need to be high to understand GreenWin, or if you mean I am so high that I can’t understand him. Scientists like you and GreenWin are so cryptic to the common man.

          • JNewman

            October 18, 2012 at 6:21 pm

            I mean that if GW had HIS dosage adjusted, he might make more sense.

          • General Zaroff

            October 18, 2012 at 6:24 pm

            Ah, sorry I see now that you were replying to him, not me. I will stop pretending to be hurt.

          • GreenWin

            October 18, 2012 at 6:32 pm

            Aha! The ad hom. Last refuge of the demoralized skeptopath.

        • JNewman

          October 18, 2012 at 9:59 pm

          Not at all, GW. I am just concerned about you. When I pointed out the completely specious logic of your slogan, your only response was to repeat it. That strikes me as the action of an imbalanced individual.

    • General Zaroff

      October 18, 2012 at 5:37 pm

      GreenWin, I have to ask about your vendetta against hot fusion. Are you angry because your job application to work at a high energy physics lab was rejected? Look, washing windows at a fusion research lab really isn’t any more glamorous than doing it at your local gas station, even with the security clearance. So just let it go, you will feel better.

  35. GreenWin

    October 18, 2012 at 5:55 pm

    “Though computer models predicted that NIF was on track to create fusion reactions that produce more energy than they consume, this has turned out not to be case.” New Scientist, October 2012

    Had they used the models that predict AGW, there might not be these problems. But then, software modelling is a new world beitch!

    IGZ-2013 Redemption Available

  36. GreenWin

    October 18, 2012 at 6:07 pm

    “ITER says?” Really?

    “The Problems with ITER and the Fading Dream of Fusion Energy” Scientific American, May 2012

    “Yet for all its promise, the ITER project is in trouble. Billions of dollars over budget and years behind schedule, the reactor will not start power-production experiments until 2026 at the earliest.

    Critics contend that ITER has become a pie-in-the-sky boondoggle whose only purpose is to suck money away from productive clean-energy research projects like wind and solar energy.”

    IGZ-2013 Fusionistas Welcome!

    • Frank

      October 18, 2012 at 8:52 pm

      Surely, in the eyes of the GreenWin likes, who put all their hopes for green energy in Rossi and who are dreaming of e-cats and hot-cats, the ITER experiment is just a waste of money:

      GreenWin on October 18, 2012 at 6:35 pm [on e-catworld]
      Good comments Frank [Acland]. This does put the hot-cat SSM in a League of its own. Regardless of the total kWt, to have discovered an entirely new source of energy, have it run with zero input for extended time, and designed a control mechanism to seamlessly continue the reaction – is performance summa cum laude IMO.

      Increasing the total output is yet another challenge, as is direct conversion of thermal to electrical energy. In any event, provided third parties verify (academics please!) – there is a whole new world waiting to be unveiled. It is conscious, abundant, available to all… imagine.

  37. T. Alisker

    October 18, 2012 at 6:34 pm

    A candle for Gary.

    Some month ago, after Rossis presentation of his esoteric
    licensees i gave Gary a chance and tried to read all his
    articles. Hard stuff. Details en masse and very hard to
    follow if you only visit his site for some minutes or so.

    On one side he tried to make his investigations waterproofed
    with many details, on the other side he loose many, many
    unpatient readers.

    He is (sorry) an untalented webdesigner which make it more hard
    to follow his storys and summarize on overview for yourself.

    Some people understand the evidence of legal details, some
    people prefer to discuss about physician details.

    In the case of Rossi, both sides must fit to sell something
    like the e-cat.

    If you read his storys, and you trust him and his easy to
    verifying sources, you can stop reading all Rossi-Fanblogs.

    One short example. “Hidden” under the title “More fraud…”
    you can find a story about 6 or 7 absolutely different
    signatures from Rossi on official papers in Europe an US.
    With snapshots etc., everything easy to verify.

    His faible for legal details may not be reproducable for
    many readers, but business and the fraud around is not
    thinkable without knowledge of these details.

    I hope he continue his work without overkill and remove his
    papyal Button asap.

    • dsm

      October 19, 2012 at 9:17 am

      Your comments and impressions sound strikingly familiar to me LOL !



  38. Jami

    October 18, 2012 at 6:52 pm

    “Please post specifics of what I have incorrect in my argument or flawed in my logic or reasoning.”

    On first glance, you didn’t change anything since August or so. So your “logic” is still as fundamentally flawed as it’s been back then. All you have is very few results (all of them very fishy and scientifically useless) by a handful of researchers – and they clearly show a decrease in claims over the years – plus a list of people voicing opinions about them. This isn’t even evidence, let alone proof. If anything, your charts “prove” that LENR research is dying a slow death.

  39. Al Potenza

    October 18, 2012 at 6:52 pm

    “I gotta tell ya, every time I got to ShutdownRossi I come away more convinced Rossi may actually be legit.”

    Then there is something seriously wrong with how you think and it greatly impacts negatively on your credibility!

    At the very least, the Wright’s web site shows Rossi to be a rank liar and schemer. It also demonstrates that he does not behave as one who “has anything”. He behaves like a common crook and con man.

    If Rossi had anything, he would do a proper patent application with disclosure of the details of the technology. Far from promoting theft, this would make thieves liable for damages in virtually any country on Earth. It’s what Apple, Intel, Samsung, GE, GAM and many other world giants do.

    Then, having established proper protection, Rossi would have his ecat tested by an established organization or university. Not pretend tests like he’s had. Not phony certification which requires no testing like the SGS silliness.

    He would not be building his own fictitious million ecat robotic factory, no traces of which have ever been found. Nor would he be trying to sell clumsy stuck-together containers full of plumbing junk for millions of dollars to customers who can not ever be found.

    He would be selling development licenses under his patents to large companies for billions and you can bet if the ecat worked, even at low temperature, and even if for nothing else than heating buildings, residences, factories and water, there would be a gigantic and long lasting market.

    Finally, if Wright was defaming Rossi, Rossi would file a law suit. Obviously the last thing Rossi wants is to have to produce a working ecats in front of independent experts appointed by a court! Thus, there is no law suit.

    Nope. Rossi has to be scamming. Nobody with the real goods and three brain cells would act as he does. That all goes double for Defkalion. Both are OBVIOUS and FLAGRANT scammers and lying skunks.

    • LCD

      October 18, 2012 at 7:58 pm

      “Finally, if Wright was defaming Rossi, Rossi would file a law suit. Obviously the last thing Rossi wants is to have to produce a working ecats in front of independent experts appointed by a court! Thus, there is no law suit.”

      Yeah there is no other possible credible reason for not filing a law suit in the whole wide world of possible reasons.

      • daniel maris

        October 18, 2012 at 8:46 pm

        Wright lives in teh USA doesn’t he? There’s no chance Rossi winning a libel trial against GW’s comments thanks to the First Amendment (a true bulwark of freedom) – and that’s even if Rossi was an entirely honest man, pure in thought and deed.

      • CuriousChris

        October 18, 2012 at 11:19 pm

        Rossi says his lawyers ARE filing lawsuits. we should be up to our LENR’s in them by now.
        Can you tell me of a single one?
        How about Dick Smith. he is not protected. if Roger Green files a lawsuit on Rossi’s behalf as his Australian Distributor it would go directly to court.

        The only reason for Rossi claiming to file lawsuits and not actually doing it is to make his believers think he is serious and aggrieved. the lack of actual lawsuits tends to show the opposite.

    • Auenland

      October 18, 2012 at 11:14 pm


      What i find surprising is the following: That nothing makes these believers think twice.
      I don’t talk about becoming convinced that it’s a fraud. I mean a healthy and natural scepticism if things are contradictionary.

      • daniel maris

        October 18, 2012 at 11:51 pm

        I think the problem is, Gary, that open minded sceptics don’t like being driven to an opinion by a herder of cows.

        If you haven’t yet persuaded the authorities to prosecute Rossi, you should perhaps ask yourself why.

        As an open minded sceptic I note for instance that Professors Levi and Focardi are still on Rossi’s side and nearly all LENR researchers, I think I am correct in saying, have not denounced him as as a fraud.

        I see nothing at the moment to prevent me from awaiting developments with interest and a rational degree of optimism, since to live optimistically is to live well.

        • JNewman

          October 19, 2012 at 12:36 am

          Daniel, you are anything but an open-minded skeptic. You greet anything remotely positive about LENR with great enthusiasm and you treat any sort of criticism with scorn and derision. All this is entirely within your rights but calling yourself any sort of skeptic or fence-sitter is simply preposterous.

          • daniel maris

            October 19, 2012 at 1:13 am

            That’s not at all true. I treat serious objections to Rossi very seriously. There have been some very serious question marks over his behaviour at various points. The most recent was Hydrofusion withdrawing from investment – but that was double edged because (unless you view HF as shills) that meant true independent testing was being allowed by Rossi…you see my difficulty?

            But unless and until someone exposes Rossi as a fraud I can only read the runes, such as they are. More recently I feel the needle has swung back to Rossi and I feel that has been reflected in the comments of the hypersceptics here which seem less confident, more tetchy.

            I have said before and say again now that this is a crucial time, evidence for the reality of Rossi’s technology should be coming through pretty strongly about now…his credibility will fall away very quickly if there is nothing there by the New Year.

          • JKW

            October 19, 2012 at 2:07 am

            Daniel, so now it’s New Year? Which year, may I ask? Your timeline is as flexible as that of an average member of true believer crowd. With all those needle swings you seem to be stuck in a magnetic anomaly together with most of the “other blog” folks. In a peculiar turn of the tables among frequenters there, our long defected friend George seems to more pessimistic about Rossi than you, although he is rock steady against solid science in his mantra…

          • JNewman

            October 19, 2012 at 3:09 am

            Well Daniel, I can save you some time and effort. Unless and until Rossi publicly announces that he is a fraud (and that isn’t going to happen), he will never be exposed as a fraud to your satisfaction because there will always be some little morsel of supposedly positive news (such as the ludicrous safety certificate) that you will gobble up hungrily and be sustained against another wave of damning information. So do keep reading the tea leaves and come the New Year, you can explain to us that the moment of truth is surely coming and by spring, you will lose all faith. Ad infinitum.

          • daniel maris

            October 19, 2012 at 9:27 am

            J Newman –

            Two points –

            1. The New Year is a prediction in terms of what the general review will be.

            2. I said if there were no positive signs coming through by end October I would be withdrawing my engaged interest.

            3. My own view is that the SGS Safety Certificate and the HydroFusion indication of independent testing are both positive signs. I don’t expect you to agree with that. They are not v. strong, but they are enough for me.

            4. I have already stated that I expect from hereon in a steady supply of confirmatory signs and data. If the well dries up I think you can take it as read that there is no viable technology there. The rate of info coming through has certainly increased in recent weeks and I expect that to build if this is genuine.

            If it doesn’t you may have the pleasure of leaping upon the grave of my optimism.

          • JNewman

            October 19, 2012 at 2:04 pm

            Daniel, I have no interest in leaping upon the grave of your optimism. I really don’t care what people choose to believe. My interest all along is in understanding why people here believe what they do. That is far more fascinating than the beliefs themselves. You are particularly one to watch because of the way you wrap yourself in feigned neutrality or “open-mindedness”. I can only surmise that this pretense gives you a sense of comfort about what you believe. Anyway, as Mr. Spock might say, live long and prosper.

        • Mickey

          October 19, 2012 at 12:45 am

          Just a few days ago a lot of people on this website were calling me, Gary.
          I find it funny that every time anyone says anything positive about Gary or his website they are instantly passed off as being Gary.
          I think he has a great website and I like like his stories and articles.
          Are you going to start calling me Gary again now?
          I find it amazing how far people will go to hold on to their faith in Rossi.
          They will do anything but actually look at the facts with an open mind. I guess they are afraid their brains will fall out.
          Anyone who still believes in Rossi at this stage in the game is definitely a Rossi disciple pure and simple.

          • daniel maris

            October 19, 2012 at 1:14 am

            Why do you think that was Gary?

          • JKW

            October 19, 2012 at 2:27 am

            Mickey, I have to disagree. Gary’s website, although semantically commendable, is really poorly designed. He wrote he is overhauling it, but the results are so far mediocre. Still, it’s great source of info, and if someone has the patience to read through, indisputably proves Rossi to be a notorious liar and basically a crook. I have to disagree with Al Potenza, though, that you need three brain cells to figure it out. Even protozoa can smell a fish.
            Now, since I criticized GW, I might be spared from calling me Gary by certain posters. I don’t like the name.

        • Auenland

          October 19, 2012 at 2:22 pm

          “I think the problem is, Gary, that open minded sceptics don’t like being driven to an opinion by a herder of cows.”

          And why are you calling me Gary, if you were a rationale person?

          You believe this, because i criticize Rossi and i tried to bring attention to an article i find great.

          I would be glad if the ecat was real, because i have to heat two houses and a flat!
          But i’m also an engineer, i know how academic research is done and i’m investing in exploration companies.
          I would have gone ten times bancrupt, if i wouldn’t be able to separate my personal wish from the availble facts (this means pro AND con!!!) and put the available facts into a context.

  40. CuriousChris

    October 18, 2012 at 11:22 pm

    I contacted Roger Green several days ago and asked him about the home ecat and whether it had been certified or was going to be certified for use in Australia, being a nuclear device and all.

    If he ever responds it will be interesting to see what he has to say.

    Somehow I don’t think I’ll get a response.

    • JKW

      October 19, 2012 at 3:51 am

      You might be surprised CC. Provided you did not sign your email by your nick, you might get a response. If I were in Roger’s shoes, I would give you one along these lines
      “Andrea is working hard with UL engineers every weekend since Apr 14th to finalize the certification (see URL below for reference)
      The robotized plant is on self sustain mode at this moment, but once we obtain the required patents, third party validations, and a working theory which excludes transmutations, but does not exclude nuclear reactions, we are ready for immediate production. After a startup procedure, it will be at peak operation in 3 (three) days. We have the necessary supplies of WD-40 on stock, and we are recycling them after as soon as the expiration date is reached, on an ongoing basis. As soon as our US and European facilities reach full production capacity, we will open another secret location in Australia.
      Please expect the crunch of the gravel in your driveway, indicating a FedEx truck delivering your preordered e-cat, soon. ”
      Warm Regards

  41. RonB

    October 19, 2012 at 1:47 am

    A question for all the really smart people..

    I’ve read that hydrogen belittlement is an exothermic reaction.
    Is it possible that something so simple as this could be the source of anomalous heat?

    • CuriousChris

      October 19, 2012 at 2:36 am

      By asking the question as you did, you are limiting your chance of a response. 😉

      Any and every chemical reaction involves an endothermic or exothermic reaction. at least in my limited experience any way. (my disclaimer)

      I guess if your nasty enough to hydrogen it will eventually get cross and you’ll feel the heat.
      Best to treat hydrogen with care and the love it deserves. I mean its been through a lot. The big bang and all.

      More seriously…
      With respect to hydrogen belittlement this can’t be the source of ‘claimed’ heat as you are talking a chemical reaction. It could certainly be the cause of some heat. which is why LENR experiments must last long enough to rule out ANY AND ALL sources of chemical reactions.

      I think that’s about right but I’ll defer to the truly smart people if they care to comment.

      • RonB

        October 19, 2012 at 4:23 am

        take a look at the two tables that tell what the setups were when they got a reaction and when they didn’t. I didn’t really see any exact duplication of any of the other institutions experiments. Very odd

        P&F got up to 111% gain using higher voltages.

        Ps .. thanks Chris for the discussion of hydrogen. I think it’s a truly remarkable element, the more I read about it the more I realize how much is unknown about its behaviour. As an oxide it’s known to break the “Law of definite proportions”.. what other laws is it pushing on?

    • Thicket

      October 19, 2012 at 2:55 pm

      There’s no such thing as hydrogen ‘belittlement’. I suspect you mean hydrogen embrittlement. This is a well-known corrosion mechanism. It takes place over a long period of time. Embrittlement refers to the mechanical impact on metal, especially pipelines and process vessels. Relating embrittlement to anomalous heat is meaningless and out of context.

  42. RonB

    October 19, 2012 at 2:26 am

    Just in case some of you haven’t seen this

    The following is the final report on cold fusion back in ’89… the one that recommended no funding of cold fusion research.

    • CuriousChris

      October 19, 2012 at 2:39 am

      I hadn’t read that. Thank you

  43. JKW

    October 19, 2012 at 5:49 am

    Now, here is something for Gary Wright. A brand new post by The Engineer. I’m quoting the entire text as it appears now, just because I saw AR’s JoNP pcsts to be edited postmortem. But then, anyone can recreate history, if you are persistent. Here how it goes now:

    Andrea Rossi
    October 18th, 2012 at 3:52 PM
    Dear “The Plumber”:
    Yes, the Hot cat is becomeng by the day more important. We will remain in the industrial applications, until the domestic ones will have been certificated. Sincerely, I think that the Hot Cats will never be approved for domestic utilization, not in the middle term for sure.
    Besides, to make electric power with the Hot Cats will make necessary the application of all the components of the Carnot cycle, which is possible only in applications with at least 1 MW of power.
    For domestic applications we are waiting the certification of the low temperature E-Cats
    Warm Regards,

    OK, So we are focusing on Carnot cycle. It is a scecific case of a thermodynamic cycle. A thermodynamic cycle can have multiple “components” as the engineer claims. For example, a Rankine cycle would usually involve a boiler, a turbine, and a condenser. So mentioning “components” in a thermodynamic cycle sounds strange but it still makes sense,
    The tripping wire is the Carnot cycle
    Can anyone of the true followers provide a solution to the feasibility of implementing a Carnot cycle? What would the components be? Assuming any of e/hot/subspace/glowing-cat is real? Or even not. Just assume real environment physics.
    Then tell which “university” teaches that Carnot cycle depends on power (itp iż a measure of energy per time, if you grasp it). I’d like to recommend your kids to study there, because of the money per diploma minimum.

    BTW, I always had this uneasy feeling that EU vs. US science education compared, the latter lacks somewhat, but Dan made me kind of comfortable 🙂

    • JKW

      October 19, 2012 at 6:41 am

      BTW, guys, do you perceive an occasional fluctuation of AR’s English grammar skills in hist posts, including the cited one? I sympathize with him. I get the same problem every time I leave the basement, which unfortunately is correleted with the dwindling supplies of the wine stack – all related to my sacrificial devotion to figure out the relationship between the location of the military e-cat and shapes of dregs in wine bottle bottoms….

    • daniel maris

      October 19, 2012 at 9:18 am

      When I read that on the Rossi Blog, I assumed he was talking about safety and cost issues when he said it was only possible in 1MW units. You are suggesting otherwise? I am not convinced.

      • JKW

        October 19, 2012 at 12:53 pm

        Dan, you are right. Carnot cycle components are dangerous below 1 MW. They transmutate into hot cats, and as we know, cats are predatory.

    • MaxS

      October 19, 2012 at 9:25 am

      Mr Engineer says “We will remain in the industrial applications, until the domestic ones will have been certificated.”
      Besides that there is no evidence the certification has even started, can we believe this explanation ? Why Mr Engineer changed strategy from domestic to industrial ?
      Some thoughts around this
      1. Initially Mr Engineer needed the domestic story to get licencees and fans on board
      2. At the present stage, it is easier to play the industrial card to keep the saga alive. Mr Engineer can always say, business is under NDA, confidential, it would not be obvious that there is no product, for domestic this would be impossible
      3. if we assume for a moment the e-cat would be real, there are also commercial reasons: The price/KW gap from domestic to industrial is so absurd that they must have dropped the domestic concept. Only with industrial e-cats the players can make big money, and further, why should anybody buy a 1MW plant when he could get the same power so much cheaper based on many smaller units (100 domestic units for 10 KW priced 800 USD make up 1MW power, = 80.000 USD vs 1.5 mio USD for 1 MW unit). Absurd, isn´t it ?

      • daniel maris

        October 19, 2012 at 1:31 pm


        If Rossi is a scammer, he can’t possibly keep this up. He has built up expectations way too much to not actually be seeking certification. If he is not, then the scam will come apart over the next few months.

        • JKW

          October 19, 2012 at 2:01 pm

          Looks like he can keep it up at least until a New Year.

        • MaxS

          October 19, 2012 at 2:40 pm

          I think Mr Engineer may have one more year, explaining delays with patent and certification issues.
          He just has to keep it up long enough till investors have sent their money.
          On the certification, all we have is a voluntary certificate for a 1MW device in the EU, not to used for commercial purposes. They can´t sell anything with this. And we have nothing for the US, and nothing for the domestic device.
          Then the patent. Every patent attorney will tell you there is no chance to get this patent ever granted because of lack of sufficient disclosure (no experimental data to support the claims). This is the excuse why Rossi can´t launch the product anytime soon, and it will please Rossarians for a while.

        • Auenland

          October 19, 2012 at 2:50 pm

          haven’t you read the recent statement?
          The carnot cycle is a real problem.
          If you would be a rationale person, you would accept the problems with the carnot cycle. This problem needs time to solve!
          Don’t be so unpatient and think logical: the Ecat is reality but it needs a bit more time.

      • JKW

        October 19, 2012 at 1:38 pm

        I raised this question before. You could save 95% by buying 100 domestic cats (felis silvestris catus) versus one industrial (felis imaginaris militarius) getting same power output. I was told that the technology between them is different. I also read somewhere on The Engineer’s blog, that the technology between the warm and hot cat (felis virtualis vulcanum) is different. The math to estimate the cost of the newest feline is simple, and even the truest believers can do it. Multiply the price of military cat by inverse of 5%. It is going to cost you $30,000,000 for just one component of the Carnot cycle.

        • MaxS

          October 19, 2012 at 2:49 pm

          JKW, you say “I was told that the technology between them is different.”
          It may be somewhat different technology, but I do not believe there would be ever a factor 20 cost difference. No way. More likely, (if real) they had totally unrealistic assumptions for manufacturing cost (perhaps depreciation of the huge robot factory) and the 800 USD is now obsolete, or they became greedy and realised they could make so much more money with inducats.

      • Auenland

        October 19, 2012 at 3:08 pm

        very good thoughts.
        Correct, this doesn’t make any sense business wise.

        But it made perfect sense to achieve maximum penetration in the blogosphere with a cheap and affordable unit everyone wants and then turn away from the public and collect the money by setting up a commercial “structure”.

  44. Eldering_G

    October 19, 2012 at 11:53 am

    Defkalion announces test results on its forum:
    As previously promised, we are attaching two files that contain a signed protocol and a preliminary report by one independent international group on our technology. This marks the end of our first cycle of testing on our lab reactors, which lasted five months with 21 different experiments having been conducted by three different international organizations. The attached documents indicate the test results obtained by one such team.

    • Eldering_G

      October 19, 2012 at 1:32 pm

      The documents that you can download now are not the ones that were originally there. There were 2 reports: one from a Nasa engineer who visited Defkalion in March (14 pages in slide format). He had not seen the E-cat in operation, but praised the openness of Defkalion. The second one is the signed version of the test report(19 pages). I have saved the second one from the cache of my computer. If the admin agrees I can reveal the name of the tester mentioned.

      • LCD

        October 19, 2012 at 2:39 pm

        You can post it on my website if you want to as well.

    • admin

      October 19, 2012 at 2:10 pm

      If it was originally posted on their site – even briefly – then it is already public, EG. Go for it. Thanks


      • Eldering_G

        October 19, 2012 at 2:22 pm

        This is what the report says on page 18: “Test observer, Michael Nelson, was asked to come in lieu of Michael Melich due to dr. Melich’s current constraint on his travel via air transportation. While Mr. Nelson has been aware… etc”.

      • Eldering_G

        October 19, 2012 at 3:19 pm

        Page 5 of the report says:”The test will be performed in the presence of Michael A. Nelson, Energy Systems Consultant under grant paid for by the Free Energy Foundation.” I can only find one Free Energy Foundation which has my countryman Peter van der Vleuten as its chairman. From the web:”Peter van der Vleuten has an extensive background in photovoltaics. Between 1998 and 2006 he has been majority owner and president of Free Energy Europe where he led the development, manufacturing and worldwide marketing of thin film silicon modules. As founder and chairman of the Free Energy Foundation, Peter’s focus has been on awareness campaigns and dealer support in rural areas in developing countries. He is involved in work on very large scale photovoltaics for desert applications since the late 1990´s, among others in the context of the Photovoltaic Power Systems Program of the International Energy Agency.”

  45. Dick Smith

    October 19, 2012 at 12:32 pm

    Tyler. The human power to self delude is almost unlimited in my experience- yes even among scientists.
    I am told that 90% of climate scientists believe humans are effecting the climate yet there are still many hundreds if not thousands of climate scientists who state this is not true.
    To others- I would not waste my time setting up an X type prize when I have yet to see any evidence that LENRs actually happen.
    Just as much evidence for water divining as far as I can see.

    • daniel maris

      October 19, 2012 at 1:29 pm

      So which of the climate scientists are you saying is right, Dick? In the UK the Met Office has just issued an analysis showing no rise over the last 15 years (when the amount of carbon being pumped into the air has increased exponentially). Maybe the small 10% minority are right?

    • daniel maris

      October 19, 2012 at 1:34 pm

      Until they name names we can’t take this too seriously can we?

      • RonB

        October 19, 2012 at 1:46 pm

        Hi Daniel,
        After reading it, I don’t think we should take it very seriously. lol..
        a COP greater than 1 seemed to be the test objective.. sheesh

    • JKW

      October 19, 2012 at 2:15 pm

      Hey, the guy on the tube has the same T-shirt I got at Kennedy Space Center souvenir store. I’ve been missing it for a while…
      Seriously, both the forum post and the video must be jokes. Looks like they had an early Haloween party. I wonder where they got the money from…

      • JKW

        October 19, 2012 at 2:29 pm

        And I wonder when are they going to provide that list of peer reviewed journals that are then going to publish certain independent third party tests, including Greek government officials. The tests were performed in April as far as I remember. Is this a greek life or what?

        • GN

          October 19, 2012 at 2:45 pm

          Would you like to explain what you mean by “a greek life”?

          • JKW

            October 19, 2012 at 3:04 pm

            Oh, yes. I forgot for a moment that we are a global community. I don’t know where exactly “greek life” name came from (must have been an American student living in Greece or vice versa) but it looks like it is confined to the USA. Basically a bunch of guys or/and gals having fun at college.

  46. Mickey

    October 19, 2012 at 2:02 pm

    Gary Wright has just published an article giving a current and up-to-date peek into how and why the USPTO is rejecting cold fusion/LENR patents. See –

    Santilli’s Battle with the United States Patent Office

    • MaxS

      October 19, 2012 at 4:09 pm

      just read it. Gary´s analysis is brilliant, as usual.
      However, the key reason for rejection is not per se cold fusion , the key reason is lack of substantiation. No evidence, no patent.
      Mr Engineer will ultimately face the same destiny – no patent.

  47. spacegoat

    October 19, 2012 at 2:48 pm

    So DGT deliver again, verified by Nasa (identity viewable with the right PDF reader) using their own equipment. But let that not interrupt Rossi clownery / Dick Smith discussions, which are more important of course.

    “Testers calibrated and tested all instruments that are logging data in our logging system with their own instruments. Obviously we do not suffer of such pre-mature experimental problems any more.

    The objective of this test was to get only COP>1.1 with a noise to signal ratio less than 10%. We got COP>3 very easy with noise to signal less than 4%. Note that the tested reactor R5 was not designed for maximum COP but to get maximum lab safety and control /understanding over the phenomena.”

    Yes I agree its just a DGT-PDF-Says. Does this meta data make you fraud name callers slightly worried?

    • JKW

      October 19, 2012 at 3:12 pm


    • RonB

      October 19, 2012 at 5:08 pm

      Did you get the idea that there was more to come anytime soon? I hope this isn’t the extent of the validation effort reporting.

  48. Quax

    October 20, 2012 at 4:03 pm

    In the old thread Tyler pushed his site.

    I think he deserves Kudos for a really nicely produced slide deck that compiles the circumstantial evidence.

    It is a nice framework to assign your own probabilities. My take on his “facts” are:

    Fact 1: 50%
    Fact 2: 10%
    (Fact 3 is conditional on 1 and 2 hence I skip that one.)

    I especially liked his link to this EU report.

    IMHO they are over-optimistic but I am happy that they are taking exactly the stance that I have been advocating: More research of these surface phenomenons. It may not lead to the imagined LENR energy nirvana but these anomalies need to be understood and it is quite likely that a more detailed understanding will benefit other fields.