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Zurich eCat Conference Video

September 9, 2012

Andrea Rossi’s presentation begins at 16m:

[With thanks to Francesco CH and Sterling Allan of Peswiki]

Posted by on September 9, 2012. Filed under Business,licencing,Roll-Out,Rossi,Videos. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0. You can leave a response or trackback to this entry

91 Responses to Zurich eCat Conference Video

  1. Dale G. Basgall Reply

    September 9, 2012 at 8:52 pm

    As the video was playing I got the impression this one little cylinder indicated in the paper as an e-cat module, and then later Mr. Rossi claims the reactor it appears specific.

    It is aparent this e-cat module is only one cylinder of a complete reactor machine to be built from something that houses many.

    Kind of looked like a diesel engine cylinder liner and piston laying together on the workbench. Not much good until put into the cylinder block with all other parts.

    • Francesco CH Reply

      September 10, 2012 at 8:36 am

      It is the prototype of the Hot-Cat.

      It is a single reactor and its design is COMPLETELY different from usual E-Cat.

      Actually, Rossi is developing four products:

      from the brochure (in Italian) of Prometeon, page two:

      http://www.22passi.it/Presentazione_Prometeon_Zurigo_8_settembre_2012.pdf

      1. E-Cat heat to power. Ordered and available – Minimum output*: 1 MW

      2. E-Cat heat with gas (Gas Cat). We accept pre-orders – Minimum output: 1 MW

      3. E-Cat Electric stand-alone. In development – Minimum output:> 10 MW

      4. E-Cat heat-power cogeneration (Hot Cat). Being developed by Siemens AG

  2. daniel maris Reply

    September 9, 2012 at 9:08 pm

    So he is saying he has safety certification from SGS for the 1MW plant? Interesting… SGS – it seems to be generally agreed – are a big bona fide company. But what does “safety certification” amount to ? It’s not a validation of the technology – of the COP in particular – but on the other hand, SGS have to understand the technology to be able to determine its safety I guess. INteresting – I would certainly like to see what SGS say.

    • Al Potenza Reply

      September 9, 2012 at 10:42 pm

      So would everybody. Want to bet either SGS never worked with Rossi or they tested for safety but never for whether it works or not?

      • daniel maris Reply

        September 9, 2012 at 10:47 pm

        Well I think (a) it is unlikely they never worked with SGS and (b) a safety certification is just that – it is not a complete validation of there being a useful technology.

        However, both these are advances. Whereas a lot of hypersceptic criticism has suggested that we would see Rossi skulking in the shadows.

        • Al Potenza Reply

          September 9, 2012 at 11:21 pm

          Let’s see the certificate or hear from SGS. Why should we believe Rossi? He’s lied frequently about his so-called associations.

  3. daniel maris Reply

    September 9, 2012 at 9:22 pm

    Promoteon are claiming that E Cat is being developed with Siemens AG.

    http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2F22passi.blogspot.com%2F2012%2F09%2Fe-cat-in-corso-di-sviluppo-con-siemens.html

    This has got to add credibility to Rossi if true, especially if combined with confirmation of SGS’s involvement in safety certification.

    But he’s still a long way from proper validation.

    • JNewman Reply

      September 9, 2012 at 9:31 pm

      There are many things that would add credibility to Rossi if they were true.

      • daniel maris Reply

        September 9, 2012 at 10:19 pm

        So you agree, if this is true, then it will add credibility? That’s good, if you acknowledge it.

        If we get confirmation of SGS’s involvement with safety certification that will help.

        • JNewman Reply

          September 9, 2012 at 10:31 pm

          Is this surprising? Rossi’s lack of credibility in great part comes from the fact that what he claims is never confirmed by reliable and known other sources. If such confirmation is provided by those sources, then of course it would enhance his credibility. That is hardly a controversial point. It also has not yet happened.

        • dsm Reply

          September 9, 2012 at 10:31 pm

          Daniel,
          .
          Sadly the trail of Rossi’s claims is littered with pork pie wrappers (all the porkies).
          .
          There is nothing from the event that was any different from what I predicted.
          .
          I was never worried about having to eat my hat :)
          .
          Also the Dick Smith $1 Million Prize was never going to be claimed.
          .
          The DS prize is the brick wall Rossi can’t seem to walk through even if he creates the illusion that he walks on water to many of his followers.
          .
          DSM

          • Methusela

            September 9, 2012 at 10:47 pm

            Perhaps Dick could offer a prize for the first functioning Noble gas engine?

          • dsm

            September 9, 2012 at 11:05 pm

            Metho
            .
            LOL :)
            .
            Perhaps you can build an engine on the gas you exude :) – lots of it – would run for hours per puff :)
            .
            DSM
            .
            (Actually I just realized your gas engine might never work as my guess is you must be so deflated now :) :) )

        • CuriousChris Reply

          September 10, 2012 at 1:40 am

          I for one absolutely agree. If all claims are PROVEN true then its true.

          But one lie is a crack, Sadly there have been multitudes of lies. It makes it hard to believe anything is true.

          If SGS Certification is something unrelated like “we tested this black box and we can confirm absolutely 100% it will not turn into a bear and attack you”. Then it really doesn’t count for much I am afraid.

          We have seen this sort of false certification before. For example the certification of torque tests for Terawat by TUV was accurate but it was fools gold, it did not prove any of the claims of overunity. but it did prove exactly what they were asked to prove which was a rotating mass creates torque 0, DUH!.

          So one must look very closely at what the certification actually certifies. not just that it exists.

    • Al Potenza Reply

      September 9, 2012 at 10:43 pm

      If wishes were horses, beggars would ride .

      • JNewman Reply

        September 9, 2012 at 11:17 pm

        You can’t imagine how often those words come to mind when I read tis blog!

      • PersonFromPorlock Reply

        September 10, 2012 at 1:26 am

        If wishes were horses, beggars would eat meat for a while and then go back to begging.

  4. dsm Reply

    September 9, 2012 at 10:44 pm

    THIRD PARTY INDEPENENT REPORT ?
    ===========================
    .

    Ivan over at eCatWorld spotted this little gem.
    .
    http://i.imgur.com/CoaEA.jpg
    .
    Go here & see images on pages 9 & 12
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/105322688/Penon4-1
    .
    Look down to the bottom left corner
    “C:UsersCures……” <= (note the backslashes aren't showing on eCatNews)
    .
    Hmmmmmm :)
    .
    DSM

    • JNewman Reply

      September 10, 2012 at 12:20 am

      How splendid! So Fioravanti, who is really Cures, is not only a secret NATO colonel, an expert engineer, a representative of a secret military customer, a dedicated Internet champion of cold fusion and a long-time buddy of Rossi. He is apparently also the secret independent tester of the hot cat. All that is missing is whether he is also the retired Olympic gold medalist in swimming. A genuine renaissance man.

      • Francesco CH Reply

        September 10, 2012 at 8:55 am

        As Italian, I have the privilege to read Cures every day on COBRAF

        http://www.cobraf.com/forum/topic.php?topic_id=5747

        and he is one of the most prepared experts in his field I have read in my whole life.

        You have to remember that these reports were not made by Rossi himself: they were requested by the Military Customer and were performed under the conditions agreed by the Military Customer (and Cures was only one of the many experts who participated – there were at least other ten scientists, professors of Physics, Engineering, etc during these tests… Fabio Penon is one of them).

        • dsm Reply

          September 10, 2012 at 9:27 am

          What military customer – StarShip Enterprise ?
          .
          DSM

        • John Milstone Reply

          September 10, 2012 at 1:27 pm

          he is one of the most prepared experts in his field I have read in my whole life.

          So maybe Cures is the “brains” of this scam? Rossi doesn’t seem knowledgable enough to have set up the technology part of this circus.

          Of course, Rossi does have plenty of experience with running business scams, so he could be in charge of fleecing the investors.

    • Ivan Mohorovicic Reply

      September 10, 2012 at 1:08 am

      Cures is the person who personally took and “leaked” the 1000C E-Cat photo which ended up being used in the Penon test report, after all.

  5. dsm Reply

    September 9, 2012 at 10:58 pm

    What we can reflect on is that now the event has passed, Rossi did no demos, showed no home eCat to the dealers who handed over money blindly on ‘trust’ to sell them, Rossi didn’t even show them a prototype. He showed no acceptable ‘scientific validation’ (nothing that comes anywhere near winning the Dick Smith Million).
    .
    At best the event produced a ‘safety certification’. Nothing to do with what process drives it, just that after 12 months Rossi now has a certificate that says he can turn a 1MW eCat on & off safely. 12 months just for that !.
    .
    We have Daniel saying “but on the other hand, SGS have to understand the technology to be able to determine its safety I guess. INteresting – I would certainly like to see what SGS say.” – sorry Daniel, this is yet more wishful thinking.
    .
    Then I reflect on all the punching biting, hair pulling & scratching that went on with those among us who claimed it would all be revealed at this conference and that any skepticism would be shot down by the validation !. Well – where is it ?.
    .
    DSM

  6. Dick Smith Reply

    September 9, 2012 at 11:30 pm

    What’s happened to the huge Rossie factory in Florida?

    Or have we forgotten that claim.

    Was there a question time and did anyone ask him about my $1m offer?

    • dsm Reply

      September 9, 2012 at 11:39 pm

      Dick
      .
      What you may have missed last week was the amazing admission by a German agent who stated publicly that he transferred his fees to Rossi with *no* contract & claimed that this proved how important ‘trust’ was !. I think a few of us were gob-smacked at this admission but it is what we have come to expect.
      .
      I am not aware from what I saw that anyone raised your reward. But to be fair, Fioravanti? (that secret NATO colonel engineer) has apparently come into view in recent weeks, as an old Rossi ‘buddy’ (also uses the web handle ‘cures’) & he warned everyone before the Zurich event not to ‘upset’ Rossi :) – so I am sure your prize was not going to get mentioned.
      . :)
      .
      DSM
      About Fioravanti …
      http://www.e-catworld.com/2012/08/rossi-statement-on-cures/

  7. Mickey Reply

    September 10, 2012 at 12:24 am

    With all of the talk of “Cures” lately, I found it interesting that Cobraf.com where “Cures” posts all of his comments is considering starting a new thread about the Roger Green emails.

    • Mickey Reply

      September 10, 2012 at 12:30 am

      • dsm Reply

        September 10, 2012 at 12:52 am

        The moderator’s comments about the proposed looking into the Roger Green emails are pretty sound (all in Italian, but very easy to follow).
        .
        Not sure what it will show up there but it seems that the admission by the German agent that he paid without signing a contract has triggered more widespread WTF? reaction & from where I see it that is needed. This moderator mentioned the Swiss agent as doing something similar ?.
        .
        DSM

    • Ivan Mohorovicic Reply

      September 10, 2012 at 12:58 am

      I’m following closely that forum (and trying to learn some Italian in the process, that might turn out useful) and the translation of what the forum moderator wrote is different than what you’re implying (correct link to the post here).
      Original:

      Stavo pensando di aprire un Topic parallelo a questo su Rossi e la LENR in cui discutere gli aspetti commerciali, economici, politici, ipotesi di complotto e simili e lasciare la parte di discussioni scientifica separata. Se pensate sia meglio indicatelo.

      Note: Google translate doesn’t seem to translate correctly “un Topic parallelo a questo“, which means “a thread in parallel to this one”. By changing it to “un thread in parallelo a questo” the intended meaning is restored.

      Google translation with the previously mentioned fix:

      I was thinking of opening a thread in parallel to this on Rossi and LENR to discuss the commercial aspects, economic, political, conspiracy theories and the like and leave the discussions separate scientific. If you think it is better to indicate this.

      The moderator proposed to keep scientific discussions separate from news, commercial, economic and political aspects, conspiracy theories, etc. He didn’t write he would dedicate a thread on Roger Green’s emails.

      • Mickey Reply

        September 10, 2012 at 1:09 am

        Thank you for the clarification.

        But it still looked to me like all he was talking about was that site with the Roger Green emails on it.

        Or do you think he was talking about other sites as well?

        Either way it looks like people are starting to look at this whole Rossi thing with a little more critical eye.

      • dsm Reply

        September 10, 2012 at 1:56 am

        Ivan
        Yes thanks for that clarification. The Moderator seemed to say quite a lot about the issue & thus I assumed it was important enough to him to follow up.
        .
        DSM
        PS Thanks for that link to the ‘cures’ image. :)

        • Ivan Mohorovicic Reply

          September 10, 2012 at 2:43 am

          He commented on the shutdownrossi website saying that if the emails are authentic, and he thinks it would take much effort to fake them, they would indicate that Rossi’s commercial strategy is “confused” and sloppy at best, and that if they’re not or they have been manipulated, that would be a massive effort to discredit Rossi.

          Then he wrote that while scientifically LENR are hard to understand, commercial matters are easier (I don’t quite understand what is his point there), commented on the actual plants sold and asked if new licenses have been sold during the conference in Zurich.

          In general he’s being very neutral-positive toward this subject. His latest message on that thread about Rossi’s video from PESN doesn’t look like something a skeptic would post either. He (and neither the forum admin “GZ”) doesn’t seem to be starting to look at Rossi “with a little more critical eye”, to me.

  8. Loop Reply

    September 10, 2012 at 12:39 am

    The sole reason of this latest Rossi show is to relinquish the idea of the cold fusion and gamma radiation, all that because of the Florida Bureau of Radiation Control.
    Because of them Rossi couldn’t continue this show from the Florida.
    The second thing is that he found the opportunity to grab the money from the rest of the trusting Germans.
    I worked for tree years in Frankfurt Germany and I know that Germans were not so trusty like the imbecile who gave him the money. I just cant believe that he gave him money.

    I will tell again the things I spoke months ago, maybe there is some small percentage that maybe Rossi has something (I doubt that) but its criminal operation if Rossi took money before any proper validation and certification of prototype.

    • dsm Reply

      September 10, 2012 at 1:02 am

      Loop
      .
      Interesting points !.
      .
      Rossi never understood what was going on in his eCat back in 2007/2008. I am sure he knows little better today (the heart of his problems).
      .
      We need to remember that Rossi filed his Italian patent in April 2008 after he & Focardi built the 1st eCat between their 1st face-to-face meeting in July 2007 & 24th Oct 2007 (as Rossi himself identified in his 2008 patent & tv interviews & Focardi confirmed at several conferences, & on video).
      .
      This admission by Rossi about no detectable gamma & insignificant transmutation to Cu also explains Piantelli’s scathing critique of Rossi’s patent back in Jan 2010. That further exposes reasons why Rossi won’t get his current patent approved anywhere else (i.e. via WIPO & USPTO).
      .
      What a mess !.
      .
      DSM

      • MaxS Reply

        September 10, 2012 at 11:36 am

        How professional is it to acknowledge now that the core process it totally different to what has been claimed all along ?
        when it was discussed eerlier in ecatworld that the experimental data were in conflict to Rossi´s claims for the Ni2Cu transmutation, Rossarians defended with “deliberate misdirection” to protect know-how, and claimed Rossi knew it all along. Not likely, though, since deliberate misdirections would wipe out the validity of the patent.
        The whole patent is based on Ni2Cu transmutation, to come up now with a different theory will require new patent applications, he can no longer claim priority date, thus he has trouble with his own prior art of demonstrations and too much talking. I agree it´s a mess.
        I believe either it is all fraud and manipulated (I give it a 65% chance), or the engineer Rossi stumbled upon some effects (30% chance) which he never understood. Not till today. In that case it would have been better to involve some real best in class scientists, and play open cards. Only 5% I give it being real.

    • Mickey Reply

      September 10, 2012 at 1:12 am

      I also thought you made some interesting points.

      I have a brother who spent 2 years in the same area in the army – long ago.

      I would like to hear what else you have to say.

      Thanks for the comments.

    • Jami Reply

      September 10, 2012 at 6:42 am

      Germans are as naive as everybody else. The hopelessly romantic we-own-the-world dreamers have been sobered up a bit towards the end of the first half of the last century – but there is still more than enough gullibility around. Overall the percentage of idiots is probably more or less the same as in the rest of the world. If Rossi had held this conference not in Switzerland but in the US or Australia or Italy or Sweden or Japan, we’d have experienced a very similar bunch of crackpots and starry-eyed idealists – only with different accents.

  9. Tony Reply

    September 10, 2012 at 1:10 am

    From the highly respected JoNP.

    Andrea Rossi
    September 9th, 2012 at 6:07 PM
    Dear Brian:
    It is necessary that I repeat the following statement:
    THE HOT CAT ( REACTOR AT HIGH TEMPERATURE) HAS NOT BEEN YET VALIDATED, BECAUSE THE TESTS AND THE MEASUREMENTS HAVE STILL TO BE COMPLETED, AND TO COMPLETE THEM WILL BE NECESSARY AT LEAST 2-3 MORE MONTHS. I SAID THIS IN MY REPORT IN ZURICH AND I REPEAT THIS HERE.
    THE PROFESSORS AND ENGINEERS WHO ARE MAKING THESE TESTS ARE SPECIALISTS AND THEIR WORK IS COMPLEX. FOR EXAMPLE, THE MEASUREMENT OF THE ENERGY CONSUMED HAS TO BE MADE IN A WAY THAT IS BEYOND ANY REASONABLE DOUBT, SO NOW WE ARE REPEATING THE MEASUREMENTS USING A VARIAC TO AVOID THAT ENERGY USED BY THE RESISTANCES IS NOT MEASURED BY THE VOLTMETER AND THE AMPEROMETER ( THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF THE MANY ISSUES THAT ARE UNDER PROBE). THEREFORE IT IS ABSOLUTELY WRONG TO USE THE EXPRESSION ” THE ENGINEERS WHO PERFORMED THE PUBLISHED VALIDATION”, WHILE IS CORRECT THE EXPRESSION ” THE PROFESSORS AND THE ENGINEERS WHO ARE PERFORMING THE VALIDATION IN COURSE”.
    THE FINAL RESULTS WILL BE PUBLISHED IN A SCIENTIFIC MAGAZINE ONLY AFTER THE VALIDATION WILL HAVE BEEN COMPLETED.
    I AM RECEIVING FROM MANY PERSONS THIS QUESTION: ” IS IT POSSIBLE TO INVEST IN THE HOT CAT”? MY ANSWER IS: NO, IT IS NOT, BECAUSE THE REACTOR FOR HIGH TEMPERATURES IS NOT READY, IS NOT AS PRODUCT, IS A PROTOTYPE SUBJECT TO RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT AND I WANT NOT TO PUT ANYBODY AT RISK BEFORE THE HOT CAT IS NOT YET A PRODUCT. OF COURSE I BELIEVE IN IT, I AM INVESTING MY MONEY IN IT, BUT I WANT NOT TO PLAY FOOT BALL WITH THE BONES OF THE OTHERS.
    Warm Regards,
    Andrea Rossi

    But wasn’t the Zurich show for those who had invested? A convention of sorts for the ones who were wise enough to invest early enough to make the really big money? If the Zurich event wasn’t for these folks, then just who was it for?

    All of us know the answer. Some just won’t accept it.

    Tony2

    • Mickey Reply

      September 10, 2012 at 1:17 am

      So Rossi will “PLAY FOOT BALL WITH THE BONES OF THE OTHERS” when it comes to the “classic” e-cat and the home e-cat, neither of which can be purchased, but not with the new, “hot cat”?

      Does that mean the people who already have licenses have no investment in the “hot cat”?

      Just asking.

      • dsm Reply

        September 10, 2012 at 2:09 am

        My reading is that they bought agencies for home eCats (those that may have signed anything). If they want to license ‘hot’ eCats (that he would have developed using their Agency Fees for Home eCats, they must pay for a hotCat Agency !.
        .
        That is how it comes across.
        .
        DSM

    • Francesco CH Reply

      September 10, 2012 at 9:00 am

      From an above comment:

      °°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°

      Actually, Rossi is developing four products:

      from the brochure (in Italian) of Prometeon, page two:

      http://www.22passi.it/Presentazione_Prometeon_Zurigo_8_settembre_2012.pdf

      1. E-Cat heat to power. Ordered and available – Minimum output*: 1 MW

      2. E-Cat heat with gas (Gas Cat). We accept pre-orders – Minimum output: 1 MW

      3. E-Cat Electric stand-alone. In development – Minimum output:> 10 MW

      4. E-Cat heat-power cogeneration (Hot Cat). Being developed by Siemens AG

      • dsm Reply

        September 10, 2012 at 9:22 am

        Franco
        Want to earn a quick $1 million. Produce 1 proof by a reputable university or science institute that the eCat is a working > 1Kw LENR with = or better than COP 3 reactor & Dick Smith will pass over a check for one big fat million $s. (Read that again – only 1Kw, just 1 & a tiny COP of 3).
        .
        Do I believe you will do it ? – nup. Do I believe anyone will do it nup.
        .
        Remember you still have until End Jan 2013. Will Rossi collect it – nup !.
        .

        DSM

        • dsm Reply

          September 10, 2012 at 10:04 am

          PS
          Here is another “I’ll eat my hat bet”. If Rossi comes up with a real acceptable (vs the constant unproven) – 3rd Party Scientific evaluation of the eCat as a valid LENR reactor & does this by end Oct – I’ll eat my hat & put the event up on youtube.
          .
          But my hat is as safe as Dick Smith’s $1 million.
          .
          DSM
          (New tune new dance 6 more weeks to tango)

  10. Geeza Reply

    September 10, 2012 at 2:08 am

    Rossi has been in big strife once before. Does he really want to go there again?

    • dsm Reply

      September 10, 2012 at 8:59 am

      He is there again :(
      .
      Rossi did not have the Internet as such a big deal in the past. I believe he had no idea his eCat idea would go viral. My belief is he wanted to sell it to one or more US govt agencies who he has found to be amenable in the past. But this went viral & actually has started a new religion !.
      .
      xCat New Energy – Global religion.
      .
      DSM

  11. dsm Reply

    September 10, 2012 at 2:53 am

    Well Gary Wright can sure come up with some gems when he wants :)
    .
    This link shows (as best I can tell) 3 incompatible signatures representing Andrea Rossi & Leonardo, on official documents including patent applications going back to 2005 (2 years before he got together with Focardi).
    .
    This is rather damning stuff !.
    .
    http://shutdownrossi.com/?page_id=1444
    .
    DSM

    • dsm Reply

      September 10, 2012 at 3:28 am

      (posted in good humor :) , let me pre-empt Ransom etc: on this topic >:) )
      .
      R-pw (will) sez:
      “Those signatures prove nothing!. Rossi could have a strategy of using different signatures for different types of business deals. So until an expert in handwriting watches Rossi in person sign the 3 different signatures the evidence is useless”.
      .
      Dan (will) sez:
      “The signatures all look close enough for me. I don’t see what the problem is”.
      .
      GrW (will) sez:
      “Should Wright be brought to the People’s Tribunal with the benefit of any legal counsel? or should he be hung in the sun on a hook for a short while before hand ?.
      IGZ-2013 eCatReligion is Futile”
      . :)
      .
      D

      • Quax Reply

        September 10, 2012 at 4:00 am

        DSM, this is scathing evidence that you have been writing all three characters all along.

        Dang it buddy, you’ve certainly had me fooled!

      • JNewman Reply

        September 10, 2012 at 5:00 am

        C’mon Doug. You left out SS. Don’t disappoint us.

        • dsm Reply

          September 10, 2012 at 5:25 am

          I’m secretly in love with her & can’t bring myself to tease her any more.
          .
          Such passion – mama mia, such intensity :) – her energy boils my blood.
          .
          :)
          .
          DSM

  12. Quax Reply

    September 10, 2012 at 4:28 am

    Paul (our Admin) at one point already abandoned this site for quite a while. So I take his pondering to shut-down ecatnews.com quite seriously.

    Just in case I created this back-up forum.

    Hopefully we won’t need it. If it comes to the demise of this site I will try to make this secondary blog of mine a decent alternative.

    • dsm Reply

      September 10, 2012 at 5:13 am

      Quax
      .
      I do believe Rossi is now reasonably predictable hence the confidence in my predictions prior to the Sept conference.
      .
      I am also predicting that Paul will shut down this forum because I am 100% confident he will reach a point soon where he realizes Rossi is the Pied Piper leading a lot of people, entranced by his tunes, on a merry dance to nowhere.
      .
      Over this past weekend I was doing a lot of thinking about this situation we all find ourselves in. We who come here & post plus probably a lot of lurkers, are hooked by Rossi’s dance & his tunes even if it is as skeptic spectators watching so many other people dancing in the Pied Piper conga line. It is a mesmerizing thing to be part of.
      .
      Very few people can grasp how someone like Rossi could deliberately mislead others to such an extent. But, it is what Rossi is promising that is the obvious clue. Free new energy & that captures us all no matter in what role.
      .
      Part of the spectacle (recited to me so many times by Dick Smith) is that he has seen this so many times yet he still remains amazed at the extent we can all delude ourselves over matters we are very passionate about. He was never in doubt about his bet never being claimed. Never once, even if I was.
      .
      What I keep finding so incredible is how people even now rationalize & post about why Rossi is justified in behaving like he is. But if we go back to Jan 2011, here was Rossi encouraging the setting up of the Greek venture to go into commercial production of Hyperion heating devices using 10KW eCat reactors. So just under 2 years later, just imagine where DGT would be had they believed Rossi & paid him the scheduled 1.5 $mill for that 1st eCat 1MW Plant. The reason why Rossi invented a mysterious military customer was because DGT refused to pay for anything as they woke up early that Rossi was a dead end. I won’t comment on if they have anything themselves because I don’t know & as long as they shut-up & don’t try to actually sell country licenses ahead of any validation I will leave them alone.
      .
      What is sad is how our frustrations at the lack of anything have turned some of us against each other. I am every bit as guilty as anyone at participating in this ‘spatting’ & I do go through bouts of regret at it but also cannot believe how some of us will ‘misspeak’ (pork-pie) repeatedly in our discussions as a way of trying to win points & these same people refuse to produce proofs for what can be proven to be fabrications or inventions they are using as straw-man backing. But it again is a reflection on the intensity the topic has triggered.
      .
      I got quite angry at the people who began attacking Mike McKubre’s credibility when in my mind they had no justification whatsoever to do so. I was doubly angry at how these same people then tried to deny it. I see the attacks on McKubre as insidious and the worst example of straw-man facts in order to damage the credibility of a very good man who does his best to be fair.
      .
      The guilt for the fighting is pretty well equally balanced between skeptics (some of whom fabricate straw-man facts) every bit as aggressively as some of the believers.
      .
      Any criticism to be leveled at participants as to why Paul finally choose to shut down the site is attributable to both extremes of the debate.
      .
      Anyway, I will miss the forum when it goes. I know I can’t stomach eCatWorld other than as a lurker but that would not last longt.
      .
      Maybe you can take over from Paul ? – I’d help (but you might need a 4 x 4 clue stick to keep me behaving well :) )
      .
      DSM

      • Quax Reply

        September 10, 2012 at 6:00 am

        Well, I’d like to get the dance going in case Paul gives up on it.

        Everybody invested in this show thinks that there will be an “I told you so” moment.

        You can only get this gratification in a place were there are both skeptics and believers. Hence ecatnews is so lively.

        In a sense I care about this strange little community more than the Rossi story – albeit admittedly in a somewhat twisted and cynical manner :-)

      • Kapytanhook Reply

        September 10, 2012 at 8:13 am

        Well said DSM,

        I guess we all had expectations at one point but for most of us after a few years of this bullshit all that is left is bitterness and as you said the sheer disbelief one person can fool so many on such an important subject on purpose.

    • Methusela Reply

      September 10, 2012 at 7:19 am

      Why anyone would want to backup DSM’s comments, is a mystery!

      Still, his support of Bob Rohner will be an interesting historical view of lunacy.

      • Quax Reply

        September 10, 2012 at 7:27 am

        Methusela, as far as I am concerned both you as well as DSM are indispensable regulars on this blog.

      • dsm Reply

        September 10, 2012 at 8:40 am

        Metho thee lyeth. My support is for Mike McKubre’s right to investigate & Bob Rohner’s right for Mike to have his demo investigated. You are being provocative & mischievous in the hope you can get me to reach for my 4 x 4 & perform another Haka. :)
        .
        You suffer the same brain fart some skeps do & I have a good write up on how this screw up in your brain works. That is coming in a day or so.
        .
        As a start, please post this back to me “QUOTE: DSM said there is a difference between attacking someone who is supporting free speech and claiming that the free speech being supported can be blamed on the person supporting free speech. This is a flaw in logic close in approximation to a a brain fart)”.
        .
        That sums it up. Those who make that screw up in their thinking have a serious short circuit in part their left brain. But more in the write up when it comes. You will get an honorable mention as one of the few Pied Piper-ites suffering this particular classic skepo brain fart. :)
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_fart
        .
        Cheers :)
        .
        DSM

    • dsm Reply

      September 10, 2012 at 8:57 am

      Quax – consider me your 1st honest & open customer.

      .
      Hey Metho, will you join with a serious login or would you be far too embarrassed LOL :)
      .
      DSM
      (quax, let him in anyway he is one of my favorite foils)

    • Bettingman Reply

      September 10, 2012 at 8:58 am

      good idea!

  13. Quax Reply

    September 10, 2012 at 5:02 am

    I’ve sat on my last survey data long enough and figure I owe some results to those who participated. Unfortunately, I didn’t find the time to create a custom report as before. So for now here is the plain polldaddy.com report as PDF.

    One thing that seems to be clear from the data, is that the ecatnews.com audience has shrunk, and the hard skeptics now form a relative majority.

  14. RonB Reply

    September 10, 2012 at 5:19 am

    All this about the “hot cat” .. what about the home ecat.. what about something that just makes 100C hot water and cost less than a thousand bucks with a COP of 6.

    That just about tears it for me and I think I’m just going to have to replace the oil furnace with gas and forget this ecat pipe dream. jeeez..

    ROSSI WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE. IT’S TIME TO GET THIS SHOW ON THE ROAD AND QUIT MESSING AROUND.

    • Quax Reply

      September 10, 2012 at 6:04 am

      Yep, I got myself a tankless NG water heater in the spring.

  15. Methusela Reply

    September 10, 2012 at 7:21 am

    Rossi Sez:

    “Luigi Versaggi
    September 8th, 2012 at 9:05 PM
    Congratulations for the Zurich E-CAT Conference.
    I suppose this time the main stream media cannot ignore the facts.
    We must thank you, the world must thank you.

    Andrea Rossi
    September 9th, 2012 at 6:13 PM
    Dear Luigi Versaggi:
    The main stream media need to see plants in operation: they will be satisfied soon.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.”

    Soon.

    • dsm Reply

      September 10, 2012 at 8:48 am

      WOW! – New tune new dance – WOW !, Can I join in just for the fun (for 1 day). Please Metho, send me an invite, pretty please :) :) :)
      .
      DSM
      (I want to experience it for just 1 more time :) )

  16. Paul Hilbert Reply

    September 10, 2012 at 8:53 am

    What’s with all the “translation” comments? You can’t tell me there are actually people on a “scientific” conference who won’t accept english?!

  17. Guru Reply

    September 10, 2012 at 10:38 am

    Hydro Fusion Ltd News: September 9, 2012

    Hydro Fusion witnessed a new independent test of the high temperature ECAT prototype reactor on September 6th in Bologna. Although no full report has yet been received, early indications are that the results of the July 16th/August 7th reports could not be reproduced.

    • Mickey Reply

      September 10, 2012 at 10:44 am

      Please tell us how you know this and how we can verify this information.

      • Francesco CH Reply

        September 10, 2012 at 11:14 am

      • MaxS Reply

        September 10, 2012 at 11:24 am

        the statement further goes
        “Hydro Fusion cannot at this stage support any claims made, written or other, about the amount of excess heat generated by the new high temperature ECAT prototype.”
        One could have phrased this differently, like more R&D work is required etc etc
        it really means they stop supporting Rossi at the very moment when his disciples celebrate his finest hour. Amazing.

        • Romand Reply

          September 10, 2012 at 11:39 am

          Guys, game over. Magnus Holm didn’t show up yesterday and now this press release. I just hope that the rest plays out as pain-free as possible. I think it will be painful to watch (Rossi clearly believes he will save the world and is not a “simple” scammer), so I won’t stay around.

          • Mickey

            September 10, 2012 at 12:29 pm

            Is this why Rossi needed a bodyguard at the conference?

          • Francesco CH

            September 10, 2012 at 12:36 pm

            It is not game over, it is just a damn f***ing problem with an AC adaptor. It is one of those problems that are difficult to target. Problem solved just three days ago.

          • Mickey

            September 10, 2012 at 12:47 pm

            “It is one of those problems that are difficult to target.”

            Yes, Rossi has had many problems like this.
            He also forgot you need a 1MW gas generator to make a 1MW e-cat run at full steam.

          • John Milstone

            September 10, 2012 at 1:44 pm

            It is not game over, it is just a damn f***ing problem with an AC adaptor.

            Yes, the E-Cat only appears to produce “excess” energy when it’s plugged into Rossi’s specially-wired, high-voltage outlet in his garage.

            I find this shocking only because I don’t believe Rossi would allow an honest test of his gadget. Every demo has taken place in his garage, where he could hide all sorts of gimmicks.

            In fact, I’ll bet that any “validation” test that includes power measurements takes place only in Rossi’s Bologna garage.

            BTW, is anyone else suspicious of how every bit of actual evidence from Rossi originates in Bologna, even though he keeps claiming that he is basing his operation in Florida? Perhaps all of his talk about the U.S. is just misdirection.

            Would gullible investors be more impressed if they thought Rossi was operating out of the United States?

          • Romand

            September 10, 2012 at 2:38 pm

            I just want to remind everyone of this interview with Magnus Holm (Hydrofusion) in NyT (Ny Teknik) Nov 2011

            “NyT: You have already been accused of contributing to fraud. What is your comment?

            Holm: “We are not engaged in any deception, and I do not think Rossi is engaged in any fraud either. If it would turn out that it does not work, in spite of everything, I would think it is about self-deception. I believe it works. It seems strange that Focardi who has done research in this area for over 15 years and helped Rossi for four years, might have measured wrong during the entire period. It seems unlikely. However, this does of course not mean that you’ll obtain a final product that works. But fraud requires intent and I think that can be excluded. Rossi does not talk about advance of money, which could lead to suspicions of fraud. Perhaps he could deliver a product that does not work and then you can end up in schism on that, but this does not mean fraud. From our side there is in any case no attempt of fraud.”

            NyT: How will you ensure that the products work before you sell them?

            Holm: “This is a difficult question as it’s Rossi’s responsibility that the product works. We only act as agents. But because there are powerful forces who want to argue that it’s all about fraud, we will make one or more of the following to prove our honesty.

            1. Explain the risk with such a premature product to the customer and ensure that customers are forced only to take a minimal financial risk.

            2. Try to arrange a complete product testing before any payment is made.” etc

            Not a word from them since, until the press release yesterday. = get out/distance themselves as soon as they possibly can?

            JohnMilestone: Perhaps you can not believe Rossi would give away his gadget for testing because you don’t think that he really believes it works. But it is obvious that he does. I have met quite a few delusional people in my life, and sometimes it is just unfathomable what can happen to a persons psyche.

          • John Milstone

            September 10, 2012 at 4:38 pm

            JohnMilestone: Perhaps you can not believe Rossi would give away his gadget for testing because you don’t think that he really believes it works. But it is obvious that he does.

            You think Rossi imagined that his garage was being heated by a non-functional E-Cat for over 2 years?!?

            I don’t know why you would think that it’s obvious that Rossi thinks it works. I think self-delusion is the least probable explanation.

            Rossi has been too careful to not expose his fraud for 2+ years now for it to be self-delusion. If it were self-delusion, he would have welcomed credible, independent testing.

            No, Rossi knows exactly what he’s doing.

  18. Francesco CH Reply

    September 10, 2012 at 11:21 am

    !!!VERY IMPORTANT INFORMATION!!!

    THE COMPLETE TEXT OF THE RELATION IS THIS ONE AND ONLY THIS ONE THAT YOU CAN FIND HERE:

    http://www.cobraf.com/forum/immagini/R_123487015_1.pdf

    THIS IS THE ONLY TEXT YOU CAN CONSIDER AS OFFICIAL.

    THANKS

  19. Guru Reply

    September 10, 2012 at 11:22 am

    What man is chiefeditor who artificially via software is delaying post of one reporter, after that this chiefeditor doing “own” post at the same theme and signed this as own post ?

    Such chiefeditor is MENTAL POORMAN.

    Same doing ACLAND POORMAN at e-catworld

  20. Guru Reply

    September 10, 2012 at 11:58 am

    Rossi with his delays and hundreds of special disinfo claims will bankrupt his distributors before any selling e-cats.

  21. Guru Reply

    September 10, 2012 at 1:50 pm

    TODAY Sept 10 will be published report at number of SCIENTIFIC MAGAZINES.

    Rossi told such. He is not scammer.

    • 123star Reply

      September 10, 2012 at 1:59 pm

      journal-of-nuclear-physics and PESN? :D

  22. Francesco CH Reply

    September 10, 2012 at 3:23 pm

    Read here:

    http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3535258.ece

    (it is in Swedish, so or you know Swedish or you have to use google translator)

    65 million pounds halted… for a problem regarding some interferences generated by the electricity passing through the resistors!

    • Francesco CH Reply

      September 10, 2012 at 3:52 pm

      Oops… 65 million SWEDISH KRONOR

      (Thanks to the Admin)

  23. Al Potenza Reply

    September 10, 2012 at 4:57 pm

    As Milstone said, self deception is impossible in Rossi’s case. He said he used an ecat to heat a factory for years. How do you deceive yourself about that?

    I don’t think Rossi relied previously on input power measurement errors or extra wires in his mains cord. I think he devises ways to measure the output energy incorrectly. I’ve already listed the ways before which boil down to deliberately incorrect placement of temperature output thermocouple sensors and misrepresentation of what is actually wet steam and is said to be dry. He may also have stored heat inside the larger ecat during the October 6, 2011 test. The hot cat may use yet another method, a low emissivity coating.

    I suspect all the distributors and investors who paid Rossi probably saw, in private, a longer or more elaborate version of the same sort of mismeasurement. That would mean they did not do “due diligence”. That sort of negligence is usually justified by misplaced “trust” and “good faith” .

    Rossi was told by many people many times exactly how to measure properly, how to calibrate and blank his tests. He always refused. He could have had a good test from NASA who visited him. He couldn’t seem to find a working ecat those days. All of that is not self deception. He knew what the results of testing ecats would be if he tested them correctly. They would not work.

    • Romand Reply

      September 10, 2012 at 5:29 pm

      Of course you may be right, but my guess is that he is delusional (not simple self-decception). But, this is a sidetrack, although it is the most interesting for me in this story, especially after following the Behring Breivik trial here in Scandinavia where the experts found it extremely hard to decide if he was crazy or not.

      I think Rossi said the purpose of his life is to solve the energy crisis somewhere on his blog, or something like that.

      Anyway he gave them something to test, didn’t he?

      Did you here the weird comment he made about the Sanskrit professor in his talk?

      • Al Potenza Reply

        September 10, 2012 at 6:24 pm

        I see no evidence for delusional. You mean he has a delusion that a heater worked in his factory for years? That’s quite a delusion! Fraud is a better explanation, IMO. Does he also delude himself that the thermocouples were properly placed? That the steam was dry? I don’t think so!

        I don’t know about the Sanskrit comment. What was that?

        • Romand Reply

          September 10, 2012 at 11:18 pm

          I tried to listen to the live stream and it was difficult to hear, but I think it was during Q&A and he said something about that they were very very afraid some days ago that they had made a huge calculation mistake and then! a Professor “who knows Sanskrit” and helped with English translations came to their rescue. It was a most bizarre comment and even more bizarre considering the context/audience. But I haven’t followed this as long as you, so you are probably right. But my guess is then a very complex case of deception and delusion. The behavior is so bizarre in so many ways.

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