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University of Bologna – No Formal eCat Relationship

August 27, 2012

Two weeks ago, Andrea Rossi performed a Defkalion – painting himself into a corner so that we might believe a resolution to the eCat saga was in sight. Referring to  claimed successful tests on the hotcat, he told us on 11 August that they (the tests) would “… BE REPEATED OFFICIALLY WITHIN THE HALF OF OCTOBER 2012…” by the University of Bologna.

 

  • Andrea Rossi

    INFORMATION:
    AFTER THE LEAKAGE MADE BY AN INSIDER WITH THE THE NICKNAME “CURES” REGARDING THE TESTS COMPLETED ON JULY 16TH, WHICH HAD TO REMAIN UNDER NDA, I HAVE TO INFORM THAT:
    THE TEST MADE ON JULY 16TH WILL BE REPEATED OFFICIALLY WITHIN THE HALF OF OCTOBER 2012 BY THE UNIVERSITY OF BOLOGNA AND THE RESULTS WILL BE PUBLISHED BY THE SAME UNIVERSITY.
    ANDREA ROSSI

This appears to have been reaffirmed two days ago:

    • Alessandro Stupa

      Dear Mr Rossi, is it true that in these days your E-cat is tested by an important university ?
      You gave them the 10 kw e-cat or the Hot-cat for their test ?
      They will publish their results to public ?
      Mr.Focardi works with them ?

      Thank You, I hope great success !

    • Andrea Rossi
      August 25th, 2012 at 9:38 AM
      Dear Alessandro Stupa:
      1- Yes
      2- Both
      3- Yes
      4- No, because he is not third party.
      Warm Regards,
      A.R.

There is some wriggle room in his latest statement  as he does not specify the university. However there is an implicit suggestion here when we note his reason for Professor Focardi not being involved. When he says, “No, because he is not third party.” I think he means that Focardi is not independent and so we might conclude Bologna as the establishment he is talking about. Even if that conclusion is wrong, the statement of the 11th leaves no room for doubt that he is saying that there will be an official test at UniBo followed by the release of the results.

Today, the University Magazine posted the following, reiterating a statement they made after AR made similar claims last year:

E-cat: there are measures in place

August 27, 2012

Statement by the Vice Rector for Research Dario Braga and the Director of the Department of Physics Paul Capiluppi

Following the statements appeared in some media about an upcoming release from the University of Bologna results of measurements made on the device called “E-cat” Mr. Andrea Rossi, the Vice-Chancellor for research, Professor Dario Braga, and the Director of the Department of Physics, Professor Paul Capiluppi, reiterated to the press as early as January 2012, and that is that there is no formal relationship between the University of Bologna and the EFA srl and that there is no measure in place or there are in the equipment program called “E-cat” Mr. Andrea Rossi at the University of Bologna.

The University of Bologna insists, however, the full readiness to make available its expertise and equipment to make measurements on the production of heat from the equipment to the condition that the results are public and disclosed.

Insights
E-cat: Statement by the Department of Physics

This is a little confusing as it appears to mirror the statement they made before. Is the magazine regurgitating that release or is Dario Braga telling us (in a new release) that nothing has changed and there is still no official arrangement (yet)? Perhaps it is a warning shot to guide current negotiations or perhaps it is a denial designed to distance themselves from Rossi’s claim. The last time this played, Rossi strung the story out by telling us that the (then) contract would be signed and money committed soon. (At the time, there was a 500,000 Euro fee for the private research Rossi had tasked them with. As far as I know, no such financial arrangement is being claimed now).

June 22, 2011… From Andrea Rossi”s Blog…

Jon Soderberg
June 21st, 2011 at 10:58 PM
Dear Mr Rossi
I have a question or 2 regarding the implementation of an ecat in a space heating application. The current design of your ecat seen in videos has you pumping a volume of water through a chamber resulting in dry steam. Would it be feasible to submerge an ecat chamber into a large tank of water for hydronic floor heating? Would it be possible to create a radiant heater using fins attached to an ecat chamber? Would it be simple or difficult to retrofit existing heat systems? Would it be feasible to embed an ecat into a large mass such as stone or concrete and run the ecat like a wood stove?
Thank you.
Jon Soderberg

Andrea Rossi
June 22nd, 2011 at 1:26 AM
Dear Jon Soderberg:
Yes, all of this is possible.
I think that something like this will be made in the R&D work of the University of Bologna (by the way: yesterday the research contract with the University of Bologna has been signed.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

A few weeks later, he told us that eCats had been delivered to the University:

Piers D
September 9th, 2011 at 10:26 AM
Dear Mr Rossi,

I would like to congratulate all your team who have worked on bringing cold
fusion from the lab to industrial and commercial reality. It seems so many
years ago that Fleishman and Pons first introduced the concept to the wider
global audience.  I have two questions
that you might wish to answer:

 • Have fully working E-Cats been
provided to the Bologna and Uppsala Universities for research and testing?

 • Do you have any prospective European
or Asian partners that will license the E-Cat technology for commercial
production?

 Yours sincerely

Piers Dickinson

Andrea Rossi
September 9th, 2011 at 11:28 AM
Dear Piers D:

 1- yes

 2- yes

 Warm regards,

 A.R.

On January 24th 2012, Steven Krivit told us that no money had been handed over to UniBo and they had subsequently declared the contract void.

The following is from Krivit’s article:

Today, Dario Braga, director of scientific research at the university, told New Energy Times that the university waited long enough. It terminated the contract because Rossi did not fulfill his agreement to make the first progress payment, Braga said.
“The contract ended on January 15 and has been canceled by the university,” Braga said. “Therefore, there is no further relationship between the university and Rossi or his company.”

A concerned Hank Mills penned the following to Rossi:

Dear Andrea Rossi,

It is being reported on the internet that the University of Bologna has terminated the contract with Leonardo Corporation due to non-payment. Sterling Allan has requested that I send you an email to ask you about this issue. My questions are as follows…

1) Is it true that the University of Bologna has terminated the contract with Leonardo Corporation to test the E-Cat technology?

2) If it is true that the contract was terminated, what was your reason for not following through with the contract and making the payment?

3) Some individuals are asserting the speculation that you did not pay the University of Bologna, because your first customer has yet to pay for the first E-Cat plant. Have you received any payment from the first customer (the military entity)?

4) Have you acquired any other source of funding? My thinking is that the reason you did not follow through with the contract is because you are totally focusing on the factory that will produce the home E-Cat units. Even if you had the money to pay the University of Bologna, the money could be better spent on the factory. Although the testing by the University of Bologna would be a very good thing, it is really a side issue. You already know the technology works, and you don’t have to pay $500,000 to find that out. On a totally unrelated issue, you probably know by now that Defkalion has made it known they plan to perform a test of one of their Hyperion units with a “control” unit (no hydrogen), beside the actual unit (with hydrogen) that will produce heat. I am not convinced they have a valid technology to show at all. Even if they do, it could very well be a “copy cat” of your technology. However, I would like to humbly request you consider a test of an E-Cat with a “control” unit. It is the one type of test of the E-Cat that was never performed. Although I know there are some snakes out there that will never be satisfied (because they have agendas),  there are also some *honest* skeptics that are “sitting on the fence” so to speak. I think a control test of an E-Cat would provide absolutely irrefutable evidence of the E-Cat, and would bring many of the “fence sitters” to your side.  I’ve been doing my best to support and defend your work ever since January of 2011. It has not been easy at times, and I’ve faced a lot of criticism. In recent times, your competitors have been harassing me and attacking me. If you could perform such a test with a control, I would consider it a personal favor.

Thank you for all the hard work you are doing.

Sincerely,

Hank Mills

Rossi answered thus:

DEAR HANK:

PLEASE PUBLISH EVERYWHERE YOU CAN: THE STATEMENT OF KRIVIT IS TOTALLY FALSE!!!  ABOUT THE PUBLIC TESTS I HAVE ALREADY SAID THAT WHEN OUR E-CAT WILL BE IN THE MARKET EVERYBODY WILL MAKE ALL THE TESTS HE WANTS. WARM REGARDS,

ANDREA

But on the 25th January, this was posted on the Italian site of Radio Metropolitana (Via Google Translate):

E-cat: Unibo close the contract, but open to cold fusion research January 25 .- The University of Bologna deemed terminated the contract with the company Smith [Rossi] “EFA Ltd” which included a payment of 500,000 euros for measuring e-cat. The deadline for payment was 15 January 2012, it is not got the funds, the contract was terminated. This is confirmed by our microphones to the Provost Dario Braga responsible for research projects, but added that the Department of Physics, University of Bologna remains available “with its experience and its equipment” to carry out independent measurements on the device called “E- cat . ”

Not a distancing from the research, therefore, the E-cat but a precise duties due to liquidity problems in these times of crisis also involves projects of many other companies: “Once in a recession the first thing you cut is Research and development “- complains Braga – which he does not exclude the possible revival of a payment on the type of protocol that established in June between Rossi and Unibo:” we can not exclude anything, provided of course that there is a solvency by the company. ” listen to the interview Provost Dario Braga: Here is the text of the announcement of the University: “E-CAT: STATEMENT OF THE DEPARTMENT OF PHYSICS UNIVERSITY ‘OF BOLOGNA Bologna, January 25, 2012 – The Department of Physics, University of Bologna says that the contract signed in June 2011 between the Department of Physics and the EFA Ltd. (the company owned by Italian Andrea Rossi) was terminated because of failure to meet conditions to the terms. There’s no relationship between the Department and the EFA Ltd. in connection with this contract. However, the Department of Physics has made available its experience and its equipment to carry out independent measurements on the production of heat by the equipment and cat-called in order to provide an answer to the entire scientific community and the general public about the phenomenon. The measurement results will be published.

This was then confirmed by the University. On the one hand, it backed Rossi’s assertion that a contract did exist but on the other, it was worthless and remained ineffective due to lack of payment. It was eventually cancelled by UniBo. The whole saga dragged on for months with many (including me) giving him the benefit of constant doubt.

There are more details, including claims that the University of Uppsala were to be paid to conduct research. However, we have enough here to force us to ask ourselves critical questions when the belief gene does its thing. If you find yourself concluding that Rossi would not say the things he is saying now if they did not have substance, reread the above carefully.

As always, I make no judgement and long for the day Rossi proves our worries unfounded. Until that day and unless you have genuine and RELIABLE inside knowledge… beware.

I look forward to the report from UniBo as promised by Rossi. Here it is again:

  • Andrea Rossi

    INFORMATION:
    AFTER THE LEAKAGE MADE BY AN INSIDER WITH THE THE NICKNAME “CURES” REGARDING THE TESTS COMPLETED ON JULY 16TH, WHICH HAD TO REMAIN UNDER NDA, I HAVE TO INFORM THAT:
    THE TEST MADE ON JULY 16TH WILL BE REPEATED OFFICIALLY WITHIN THE HALF OF OCTOBER 2012 BY THE UNIVERSITY OF BOLOGNA AND THE RESULTS WILL BE PUBLISHED BY THE SAME UNIVERSITY.
    ANDREA ROSSI

And again, here is today’s UniBo’ reply:

August 27, 2012

Statement by the Vice Rector for Research Dario Braga and the Director of the Department of Physics Paul Capiluppi

Following the statements appeared in some media about an upcoming release from the University of Bologna results of measurements made on the device called “E-cat” Mr. Andrea Rossi, the Vice-Chancellor for research, Professor Dario Braga, and the Director of the Department of Physics, Professor Paul Capiluppi, reiterated to the press as early as January 2012, and that is that there is no formal relationship between the University of Bologna and the EFA srl and that there is no measure in place or there are in the equipment program called “E-cat” Mr. Andrea Rossi at the University of Bologna.

The University of Bologna insists, however, the full readiness to make available its expertise and equipment to make measurements on the production of heat from the equipment to the condition that the results are public and disclosed.

Insights
E-cat: Statement by the Department of Physics

 

 

Posted by on August 27, 2012. Filed under Bologna,History,Krivit,Press/Blogs,Rossi,Tests & Demos. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0. You can leave a response or trackback to this entry

210 Responses to University of Bologna – No Formal eCat Relationship

  1. Methusela Reply

    August 27, 2012 at 7:58 pm

    Have a look at Passereni’s lightning rod allegory.

    http://22passi.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/la-preziosa-opera-di-protezione-del.html

    Pretty obvious what he’s implying.

    • daniel maris Reply

      August 27, 2012 at 8:17 pm

      You’ll have to enlighten me. I can’t make any sense of it.

      • Methusela Reply

        August 27, 2012 at 8:19 pm

        He’s saying that something or someone is acting as a distraction for vehement criticism…

        • daniel maris Reply

          August 28, 2012 at 1:16 am

          OK, I’m saying that this sort of charade is deeply, deeply undermining of Rossi’s credibility.

          If you know something say it, if not then the silence of stones is more appropriate.

          • dsm

            August 28, 2012 at 2:15 am

            Daniel
            I’ll offer you another thought on what the point may have been (only Passarini can really make it 100% clear).
            .
            But following on Methusela’s thoughts –
            .
            1) look at the cartoon – what looks like a virtuoso acting as if he is directing the lightening but lightning is not normally directed by anyone. Such a person is posing.
            .
            2) The text goes on to say that Franklin worked out ways he might direct nearby lightening so he didn’t get hurt (by the heat it generates) – he used a distraction (a wire on a kite at one point & lightening ‘conductors’ after that)
            .
            3) The title ‘The valuable work of protection from lightning ” & sub-title ‘A word to the wise’ (now if you are wise you will clearly understand LOL :) )

            .
            Cheers

            .
            DSM
            (PS – The reason why Rossi invents the ‘Bologna’ validation after the conference is TO AVOID LIGHTNING STRIKES from angry agents !!!.)

  2. Al Potenza Reply

    August 27, 2012 at 8:03 pm

    If Rossi had ever intended to have the ecat properly tested, he could have done it a year and a half ago. No university has ever said that they had an ecat. No prestigious person or lab has ever said that they tested one.

    If Rossi wanted an ecat tested for irrefutable LENR activity, it could be done cheaply in just a couple of weeks without risking his intellectually property.

    Rossi is a chronic, serial liar.

    • Methusela Reply

      August 27, 2012 at 8:18 pm

      I see you’re still taking the path of least resistance ;)

      Shame it’s leading you towards the wrong conclusion.

    • dsm Reply

      August 27, 2012 at 11:49 pm

      Don’t forget that Rossi had verbally agreed with NASA (Bushnell) to them doing a validation for the trivial sum of $US50,000.
      .
      When they finally sat down to ink the deal Rossi switched it around to pay me $US15 million & you can then test it and use it.
      .
      NASA had no authority to do anything different to the $50k deal & there is no way in hell they would have accepted the $15Mill deal anyway.
      .
      DSM

  3. Cheme911 Reply

    August 27, 2012 at 8:14 pm

    Rossi chats way too much.

    Assuming DGT, Rossi and Celani all have devices with some degree of anomalous heat generation, my theory explains this as being similar to the implosion of matter/explosion of radiation and heat seen in Bose Einstein Condensates only it is now occurring within a void within a lattice at higher temperatures and pressures due to external forces acting on it.

    http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/releases/bosenova.cfm

    My blog below summarizes this effect and makes more predictions.

    ChemE
    http://wp.me/p26aeb-4

    • Al Potenza Reply

      August 27, 2012 at 8:16 pm

      Does your theory suggest a better test than what is being done now?

      • ChemE Reply

        August 28, 2012 at 2:21 am

        Any test would be better than what is being done now. A fresman engineering student can do a simple energy balance. Rossi behaves like the great and powerful Oz…

        • Al Potenza Reply

          August 30, 2012 at 2:08 am

          I would think you might want to confirm that Rossi, DGT and Celani actually have something that works. Otherwise, your explanation of something that doesn’t exist might make you look foolish.

    • buffalo Reply

      August 27, 2012 at 11:20 pm

      mmm

  4. John Milstone Reply

    August 27, 2012 at 8:18 pm

    It will be fun to see the True Believers bend over backwards to try to twist this into some sort of positive for Rossi.

    • Francesco CH Reply

      August 27, 2012 at 8:25 pm

      There is nothing to twist:

      a calorimetric measure on the E-Cat will be perforned at the University of Bologna. On October, data will be released.

      • Frank Reply

        August 27, 2012 at 8:29 pm

        … or was it a translation error and he meant the the University of Bogus-logna?

      • buffalo Reply

        August 27, 2012 at 11:40 pm

        hey francesco.sumtin tells me you know sumtin that these guys dont know

        • dsm Reply

          August 28, 2012 at 12:47 am

          buffalo said “sumtin tells me you know sumtin that these guys dont know”.
          .
          DSM says …. I sincerely doubt it.
          .
          Francesco CH was the person who did some translation of Italian language pro Rossi material from Passarini’s blog.
          But, when I posted the Italian transcript of a letter from Piantelli that called in very specific terms aspects of Rossi’s patent ‘BullShit’ (the one word of English ) and asked Franceso CH to give us an accurate translation of this Piantelli letter he threw a fit & declined.
          .
          As I said at the time, his act on this established his credentials very well (certainly for me :) ). He is just another Rossi propagandist.
          .
          DSM

          • Francesco CH

            August 28, 2012 at 1:40 am

            Because another user had already translated it.

            Why someone asked me to translate a thing that was already translated?

            It was one of the most stupid requests I had ever received in my life!

          • Francesco CH

            August 28, 2012 at 1:47 am

            Because another user had already translated it.

            Why someone asked me to translate a thing that had already been translated?

            It was one of the most stupid requests I received in my life!

          • dsm

            August 28, 2012 at 2:05 am

            Francesco
            BS !
            I said at the time it had been done via a poor google translation & needed someone who could explain it clearer.
            .
            You are nothing but a Rossi propagandist & that is highly evident. I knew you would refuse as you did because the letter was so damning of your adored energy saint.
            .
            DSM

          • Francesco CH

            August 28, 2012 at 2:35 am

            I am not a translator!!!

            And WTF I have to translate a letter from Piantelli!

            I have already told you: Piantelli wrote that Rossi’s patent is not valid because there is no difference between Piantelli’s patent and Rossi’s patent, unfortunately for Piantelli this is simply NOT TRUE.

            There is a huge innovation in Rossi’s patent: the use of NICKEL IN NANO-POWDER FORM!

            This is a CRUCIAL innovation, it is not just a small improvement!

            …And guess what? In the new Canadian patent of Piantelli, he proposes a system based on NICKEL IN NANO-POWDER FORM!

            Hence, Piantelli is risking a patent infringment IF ROSSI’S PATENT WILL BE ACCEPTED…

          • Ivy Matt

            August 28, 2012 at 12:18 pm

            Nickel powder was claimed as an option in Piantelli’s 1995 patent and also claimed (among various possible metals) in Arata’s patent application, USPTO #20060153752. Rossi’s going to have a lot of trouble convincing the USPTO examiner that his “invention”, such as it has been disclosed, represents a novel and not an obvious step.

          • Francesco CH

            August 28, 2012 at 4:46 pm

            It can be, however these are two different things:

            powder and nano-powder.

            Because the effect works ONLY with nano-metric materials.

            So it is not an option, it is the central point.

            Also Celani uses nano-metric material, ie two nano-wires.

            ps
            It is important to remember that the patent obtained by Piantelli in 1995 was not renewed. Piantelli did not renewed it, maybe he could not imagine the sudden coming of the E-Cat on the stage.

          • Anapopei

            August 28, 2012 at 9:05 pm

            Patentwise Rossi is claiming an exothermic process whereby copper is made out nickel and hydrogen. None of the other does that. Whether they claim using nickel powder or not is therefore not relevant.

          • Ivy Matt

            August 29, 2012 at 12:29 pm

            Francesco CH: Arata’s claims cover nano-metric powders, including nickel. The fact that Piantelli let his 1995 patent expire only means that he can’t use it to go after Rossi for patent infringement. However, even if now expired, the patent still counts as prior art, which the USPTO examiner will have to consider.

            Anapopei: Do you have any particular expertise in the area of patent law? I don’t claim any myself, except for a particular curiosity in this area and a desire to research the answers for myself, but it makes no sense to me that a patent would cover the effect produced by an invention rather than the design of the invention itself. Otherwise, one could make the argument that, if a better mousetrap also happens to function quite well as a nutcracker, and if the invention’s ability to crack nuts is not mentioned in the patent, then anyone could file a patent for the same invention if they also mention its usefulness as a nutcracker.

            At any rate, the main benefit of Rossi’s invention is not the production of copper; it is the production of heat, also claimed by Piantelli and Arata, among others.

    • Ransompw Reply

      August 27, 2012 at 8:41 pm

      John:

      Rossi either has a university test the ecat by October or shame on anyone who continues to pay him any notice.

      The old adage, fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me, applies to his promise of university testing.

      I am tired of Rossi, he needs to put up or shut up and he has less than two months.

      • CuriousChris Reply

        August 28, 2012 at 12:15 am

        Sorry am I reading right?

  5. daniel maris Reply

    August 27, 2012 at 8:25 pm

    Rossi refers us to this answer (in response to a question re the Unibo statement) and asks us to read it carefully:

    Andrea Rossi
    August 27th, 2012 at 4:20 AM
    Dear Larry Jameson:
    Thank you for your important question.
    My speak in Zurich will regard the report of the tests made on the 16th of July and on the 6th of August made basically for the product certification in course for the Hot Cats. This report will be published by thechnical and specialistic publications after the 9th of September, by the scientific journalists who will attend the meeting.
    The rigorous publication deriving from the third party validation that we will make, as I said, within October by a University will be made by the professors who will make the validation, so I do know where it will be published. Please do not ask me which will be the University, I am under NDA and, by the way, three Universities are candidates for this work, should the one that has been chosen since now will retreat for any reason. We have to respect the rules and the decisions of the Universities, who, obviously, do not depend from us. I can anyway say that the test made on the 16th of July has been made with 6 professors of 2 Universities, but unofficially: it has been a preparatory test.
    I am under a strict NDA for this test, whose results will be published in the context of the Certificator’s work, not of the Universities.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.”

    I guess the key word here is “unofficially” – presumably he is implying there were Unibo people involved on 16th July unofficially.

    I’ve no idea what’s going on but I am prepared to wait till October to see if he comes good on the University tests.

    • Bettingman Reply

      August 27, 2012 at 8:57 pm

      So first it is Bologna, and now it are three secret University’s? Is anybody believing this?

    • Frank Reply

      August 27, 2012 at 9:00 pm

      I’ve no idea what’s going on

      That’s ‘no news’.
      ( Sorry, couldn’t resist ;-) )

    • dsm Reply

      August 28, 2012 at 12:26 am

      Daniel,
      .
      Do you recall us arguing for months over my statement that Rossi would NOT demo a home eCat for the dealer conference and would also NOT provide any validation (official 3rd party proof).
      .
      You said IIRC we should “wait and see”.
      .
      Has it not occurred to you why Rossi would not get a validation done before his dealer conference ? – no ? – (I though so :( ). Remember Rossi set the date for the conference.
      .
      Daniel I admire your patience & loyalty. Every good country man needs a walking companion with such loyalty.
      .
      DSM

      • daniel maris Reply

        August 28, 2012 at 1:25 am

        I have zero loyalty to Rossi but as long as people like Focardi, Levi and the Ny Teknik journos don’t denounce him, I am not sure why I have to. I will wait and see. I have already made clear my benchmark – October.

        It doesn’t matter which E cat we are talking about. Rossi says the certification on the 1 MW is complete. That is an important development which he needs to substantiate. He also says we will have an independent university test on a device by October which will subsequently be published.

        If none of this is materialising by end October, I see no reason to pay him any more attention. Whether he’s a scam or not I have no interest, but am quite happy for Gary Wright or whoever to report him to the authorities if he fails to deliver.

        • dsm Reply

          August 28, 2012 at 1:54 am

          Daniel
          .
          Please come back to the key point.
          .
          WHY did Rossi organize it so that his claim to deliver ‘validation’ (vs certification) would occur after his 1st and most important dealer conference ?.
          .
          Do you have any grasp of how businesses run & what a dealer conference really is and what it means to any business ?.
          .
          Your dealers are ‘god’. They are the people who make the overall business work. They go out and sell. They make money so the core business can.
          .
          You normally do not crap on your dealers & Rossi not providing the all critical ‘validation’ at or prior to the big event is the dumbest thing in the world for him to do (except for Rossi & his believers).
          .
          DSM
          The desire to ignore the obvious, truly is a remarkable thing to see in one as young & handsome as you :)

  6. John Milstone Reply

    August 27, 2012 at 8:53 pm

    Aside from the fact that he has been suggesting UniBo has been doing testing, which is now confirmed to be false, there is this ridiculous idea that he (Rossi) is somehow being constrained by an NDA.

    No University, or other testing organization, would require an NDA. They have nothing to hide.

    It might be reasonable for Rossi to insist on an NDA, but then his statements that poor old Rossi can’t talk about it is self-serving BS.

    Rossi can say whatever he wants to say about the E-Cat. That he continues to evade, prevaricate and lie about it is just more evidence that he is a fraud.

    • Bettingman Reply

      August 27, 2012 at 9:39 pm

      John, agreed. I see no reason a University would insist on an NDA.

  7. JNewman Reply

    August 27, 2012 at 9:04 pm

    If I was a prestigious testing laboratory given the opportunity to validate a world-changing new technology for the first time, the first thing I would do is demand that the developer sign an NDA so that our part in this historic event remains secret. Yes, that makes enormous amounts of sense.

    Rationalizations are like rubber bands: they can stretch quite a bit but eventually they will snap.

    • Frank Reply

      August 27, 2012 at 9:26 pm

      In light of the recent events our well known fellow GreenWin made an – as he thinks – important post about ‘validation corruption’:
      http://www.e-catworld.com/2012/08/rossi-on-the-zurich-meeting-university-report/
      I don’t know why, but I still have the impression that he is more than just ‘emotionally invested’ in the e-cat story ;-)

      • dsm Reply

        August 27, 2012 at 11:38 pm

        Sorry Frank, I hadn’t seen that you had already nailed it as well. I posted same below but after you.
        .
        D
        .
        He was one of those I referred to yesterday as likely ‘having a dog in the fight’. His bias and unbalance in favor of the Rossi side of the saga was just too much !.
        .
        Next we will get the blame – we drove Rossi to it or we are agents of the death star empire or ? etc: etc: etc:

      • daniel maris Reply

        August 28, 2012 at 1:27 am

        I know what you mean. He seemed v. insistent about that post. It was suspicious.

  8. Frank Foster Reply

    August 27, 2012 at 9:08 pm

    proof is in the pudding. chater is not proof. time will tell us. so tell us no more about the pudding ,just serve up the pudding please, for I am hungry. I have seen the menu, I have had the main course. now please, please serve the dang PUDDING!!!! and there will be a big tip for you

    • dsm Reply

      August 27, 2012 at 11:37 pm

      Pink Floyd summed it up ages ago LOL :)
      .
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5diMImYIIA
      .
      “If you don’t eat your meat, you can’t have any pudding! How can you have any pudding if you don’t eat your meat?!”
      .
      Problem is, there was no meat (where’s the beef ? :) ).
      .
      DSM

  9. Jami Reply

    August 27, 2012 at 9:13 pm

    “presumably he is implying there were Unibo people involved on 16th July unofficially”

    Maybe Levi served bisquites and milk to a bunch of anonymous NATO colonels? If he did, I’m sure the believers will be satisfied. This distinguished scientist would never do such a thing if he wasn’t convinced the e-cat is real.

    btw. I don’t think Rossi will publish on Schneider’s blog. It will be on JONP (which is, of course, peer reviewed).

  10. Al Potenza Reply

    August 27, 2012 at 9:16 pm

    RansompwReply

    “Ransompw, August 27, 2012 at 8:41 pm
    …I am tired of Rossi, he needs to put up or shut up and he has less than two months.”

    -
    Just curious, are you equally tired of Defkalion? They do the exact same things that Rossi does, more or less.

    • Ransompw Reply

      August 27, 2012 at 9:22 pm

      No.

      • Al Potenza Reply

        August 27, 2012 at 10:04 pm

        Why not? Like Rossi, they have broken every promise and have never delivered anything in the way of independent testing. They have also heavily censored their forum. What’s to like about these people and what they have (not) done?

        • JNewman Reply

          August 27, 2012 at 10:24 pm

          The difference is that Rossi has shown a number of things that can be critically attacked such as his infamous demos. On the other hand, Defkalion has never shown anything. Therefore, in the extraordinarily twisted reasoning of the faithful, there is no proof that anything is amiss. Of course, by that reasoning, since I have never claimed anything about an LENR reactor nor shown anything to anyone, I must have the solution to the whole issue in hand. There is no proof to the contrary.

          • Ransompw

            August 27, 2012 at 11:33 pm

            That’s not the reason. Defkalion has had 3rd parties test their device. The results haven’t been published but I trust my sources. They are having control issues but have a reactor.

          • JNewman

            August 28, 2012 at 12:12 am

            Ah, the old “wink, wink, I know people” argument. Well then, I guess that should suffice as strong evidence.

          • John Milstone

            August 28, 2012 at 12:22 am

            The results haven’t been published but I trust my sources.

            That sounds a lot like Jed Rothwell, who assured everyone that the DGE laboratory was “first rate”, based on what a “trustworthy source” told him.

            After DGE released the photos and video of their “laboratory”, Rothwell was quite disappointed with it. It wasn’t “first rate” after all.

          • Ransompw

            August 28, 2012 at 1:10 am

            Newman:

            I can’t help it you don’t know anyone.

          • JNewman

            August 28, 2012 at 2:36 am

            Well, I don’t know anyone in the witness protection program. But since everyone with actual information about this great LENR revolution is anonymous, I am just out of luck. Pity me.

          • Al Potenza

            August 28, 2012 at 2:39 am

            Some people relied on Jim Dunn perhaps because he was once with NASA. Bad idea in my opinion. I think he’s FOS when it comes to LENR and especially Defkalion. He went there and got flummoxed to use a classical term.

          • Dsm

            August 28, 2012 at 9:06 am

            Al Potenza
            .
            Dick Smith has always held that view of him re DGT.
            .
            DSM. :)

          • John Milstone

            August 28, 2012 at 11:39 am

            They are having control issues but have a reactor.

            Last summer, they claimed to have good control over their “reactors”.

            But, of course, they were claiming that they had E-Cat cores at that time.

            If Rossi is a fraud, then DGE must be a fraud, based on nothing more than their claims from last year.

            And, if they were lying last year, why would anyone believe them now?

          • Alain

            August 28, 2012 at 12:39 pm

            they still clailm the good control, but wearing problems after more than 2 days continuous run.
            We don’t have the details, but we can speculate that since they now claim higher temperature, the wearing goes faster…

            note also that in their slides they clearly state there there is 2 generation of core. a first one which have a robust triggering. the second is smarter…
            Maybe also they introduce new/different sparkplug… we don’t know and that is by purpose.

            see http://www.defkalion-energy.com/forum/download/file.php?id=23#page=25

            we should not mismatch our interpretation, often optimistic, with what they have said.
            The stability have to be compared with the E-cat which was halting after few hours of work…

            the best way to weight the situation is to analyze why an economist living comfortably in Canada, would call Canadian friends, swiss friends, australian friends (DGT is founded not by local greek, but by Greek diaspora businessmen)…

            Scam is credible for two young men in a garage, or an old weird inventor with debts… but if an economist want to run a scam, he will prefer to make it in finance, there are better tools to shear sheep.
            And if you can fear that people in Greece are desperate, those guys don’t live in Greece. they plan to get richer and to save Greece (and it is not the best place to ask for subsidies, since the state is bankrupt), and maybe to take over the government (back).

            Your theory is weak.

          • John Milstone

            August 28, 2012 at 1:31 pm

            they still claim

            Yup, that’s what it comes down to. They still claim.

            They haven’t offered any independent evidence that they have done anything. In particular, they still refuse to provide any evidence at all that there were ever “7 well-known” testing organizations that performed independent testing last winter/spring.

            All you have is “faith” that they are telling the truth. Given the complete lack of evidence, it would be foolish to just take their word for anything.

      • Bettingman Reply

        August 28, 2012 at 12:36 pm

        Ransompw,
        I hear more often that people on this forum (or other) have sources and that this source indicates that DGT have a reactor (with control issues). And then I think, can this be true? And then I read on the DGT forum some stupid post (from DGT) that they are contemplating putting self destruct devices into their boilers. And then I lose all confidence again…

  11. Harry Perini Reply

    August 27, 2012 at 9:52 pm

    What is this all about?
    I don’t understand. Does this mean I will be getting delivery of my home ecat soon?

    • Al Potenza Reply

      August 27, 2012 at 10:05 pm

      LOL. Poor Harry will be cold again this winter. Better get an electric blanket, Harry!

    • dsm Reply

      August 27, 2012 at 10:56 pm

      Ask Roger Green LOL !

      .
      DSM
      .
      (PS Could not resist posting this cry of utter despair … from a familiar poster over at ecatworld (that alternate energy escape hole for unlimited new energy fantasy rants))
      .
      GreenWin on August 27, 2012 at 7:48 pm
      -
      VALIDATION CORRUPTION
      -
      This is IMO an ENORMOUS ado about, unfortunately – nothing. Why? Because the “validation” process, like the peer review process is essentially compromised. No university reliant on taxpayer funding or local, state, federal grants will participate in ANY validation of a disruptive technology. Much less a technology disruptive of the most powerful cartels on Earth.

  12. John Bull Reply

    August 27, 2012 at 9:56 pm

    Rossi is the real deal…

    http://www.we-cat.com

    • Al Potenza Reply

      August 27, 2012 at 10:03 pm

      And that web site proves it! ROTFWL!

      • CuriousChris Reply

        August 28, 2012 at 9:29 am

        Did you snort coffee?

        • John Milstone Reply

          August 28, 2012 at 8:57 pm

          It was so outrageous that I snorted coffee out of my nose.

          Amazingly, I wasn’t even drinking coffee at the time!

    • Stephen Reply

      August 27, 2012 at 10:25 pm

      I guess you “dig big topics”, then?

    • dsm Reply

      August 27, 2012 at 10:38 pm

      Mesmerizing LOL !
      .
      DSM

      • dsm Reply

        August 27, 2012 at 10:50 pm

        (I tried to post the web page source but of course it won’t show) :)

    • Frank Reply

      August 27, 2012 at 11:15 pm

      Another ones who want to monetize the e-cat saga!

  13. dsm Reply

    August 27, 2012 at 11:06 pm

    Well folks, I sense that the end game is closing in. It has been a ‘fun’ party while it lasted.
    .
    Caused the formation of many new ‘families’ (blogs) drawn together by a common fascination, where members could do the usual family thing (biting, kicking scratching, pulling each other’s hair, ganging up on each other). Such wholesome family fun.
    .
    But in a strange way there is an attachment as well.
    .
    I am thinking that Dick Smith’s $1 million is going nowhere and that Dick Smith had it ‘sussed’ correctly from the start whereas I just kept hoping someone (even Rossi) would collect the reward. Dick even as recently as 2 weeks ago said he has *no* doubts about the nature of the Rossi eCat & he still is firm in his belief that Rossi knew what he was doing all along. He feels the same about DGT.
    .
    Well, for me the party is winding down.
    .
    Cheers
    .
    DSM

    • Frank Reply

      August 27, 2012 at 11:44 pm

      I sense that the end game is closing in

      I wouldn’t be too sure about that, because with Krivit’s help the e-cat farce was already exposed one year ago – but the ‘true believers’ (and Rossi associates) continued to cheer Rossi …

      • dsm Reply

        August 28, 2012 at 12:03 am

        Frank
        .
        Yes you are right, just go over to eCatWorld again & read the blather there from so many in denial. I don’t put it past Rossi to be able to keep the charade going until end 2013 & his ‘agents’ handing over even more money :)
        .
        I would also argue that Rossi will not get nailed for any fraud – the agreements between his ‘agents’ & companies are so convoluted & full of holes you could drive buses through them.
        .
        Having been in a role of setting up third party contracts for a global computer company, it has always been obvious that an eCat could be any heater Rossi chooses to deliver (i.e. this is the final product & yes it is a bit different from what we hoped & yes the COP is only around 1 – but here ‘it’ is – also the eCat has no real legal definition, it really can be anything Rossi finally settles on).
        .
        Any ‘agents’ who chose to throw more good money after bad by litigating would be even bigger fools. Rossi will have a trail to him that is so obscure they won’t know who they are supposed to be suing.
        .
        DSM

        • Frank Reply

          August 28, 2012 at 6:27 am

          … just go over to eCatWorld …

          It is remarkable that Frank Ackland doesn’t say anything in his latest blog-entry about the contradictions of Rossi’s earlier statements with the recent UNIBO anouncement!
          And since most of the sceptical posts doesn’t pass the moderation standards of the admin (but strangely GreenWin rants do), what’s written on e-catworld is always “quite one-sided / Rossi supportive” …

          • Dsm

            August 28, 2012 at 9:03 am

            I will be holding Ackland to account in the extent he promoted Rossi. If Roger Green ever wanted a witness in a class action suite agaist Ackland as publishing irresponsible information & blocking contrary posts I am willing to be a witness -(he has blocked sooo many of mine no matter how carefully worded).
            .
            Ackland has acted as a mouth piece for Rossi for a long while (but Hank Mills is an outright Rossi sycophant).
            .
            DSM

    • daniel maris Reply

      August 28, 2012 at 1:30 am

      OK, but I am hanging on till October, just to see if Dylan really does put in an appearance like the rumour had it…

      Dick Smith should really pay up to Celani if his device is shown to be real because we all know Dick Smith’s “bet” was really against LENR as a real phenomenon.

      • dsm Reply

        August 28, 2012 at 1:46 am

        Fer F’s sake Daniel, Dick Smith’s prize was always for a 1KW LENR !.
        .
        Do you read & retain/recall anything ? – I have posted that particular point many times & it is linked to at the top of this BLOG !.
        .
        One can try to be kind to forgetfulness but yours is a problem !.
        .
        DSM

        • daniel maris Reply

          August 28, 2012 at 2:42 am

          I know. But if you read his comments you will understand he was querying the reality of LENR. So any device that confirms LENR to be real in my view should receive his prize. The honourable thing for him to do – if not the legally binding requirement on him – would be to hand over the money even if it is sub 1KW.

          • dsm

            August 28, 2012 at 3:34 am

            Daniel
            .
            That is soooo nice of you to say you want to see Dick Smith’s $1 million go to Celani.
            .
            You are saying that Dick should do this as it would make you soooo happy & it is the only honorable thing for him to do and Celani would be over the moon too !. Every-body happy :) :) :)
            .
            (ooops: except Dick Smith who wants to see a 1KW reactor).
            .
            You really have a heart of gold (esp with someone else’s money LOL :) )
            .
            DSM

      • dsm Reply

        August 28, 2012 at 2:01 am

        I am offering US$1 Million to any person or organisation that can come up with a practical device that has an output of at least one kilowatt of useful energy through LENRs (low energy nuclear reactions)

        .
        http://dicksmithaustralia.com/

      • Bettingman Reply

        August 28, 2012 at 12:37 pm

        Daniel, In case one wire cranks out about 20 watt, putting 50 wires together might do the trick…

        • John Milstone Reply

          August 28, 2012 at 8:55 pm

          Someone should let Celani know about the Dick Smith prize.

          I’m not being sarcastic. It’s entirely possible that he doesn’t follow the web sites where it has been discussed, and is not aware of it.

          Maybe he could put together a “50 wire” demonstration and win the million dollars, as well as demonstrating in a very public way that LENR is real and practical.

          Perhaps he can’t achieve such power levels (at least not yet), and he would be honest enough to admit that.

          Or… he could reject it with some lame excuse, in which case we can lump him with Rossi and DGE.

  14. Robbie Robertson Reply

    August 27, 2012 at 11:15 pm

    So what has changed? The leopard certainly still seems to have the same spots. This whole episode seems to be a rerun of the 1Mw plant scam of last year. I have yet to have ever seen an ounce of verifiable evidence that there is scrap of truth in this whole affair. Oh how I wish I was wrong. The world needs such a device but need, wishing and lies do not bring it any closer to truth.

  15. zimmer281 Reply

    August 27, 2012 at 11:50 pm

    looks like Paul Story is now in bed with Krivit, bring out all the skeptics in mass, way to go Paul

    • Al Potenza Reply

      August 27, 2012 at 11:59 pm

      Ask him if Krivit’s beard itches.

      • Methusela Reply

        August 28, 2012 at 7:03 am

        Does George Hody’s beard itch?

    • dsm Reply

      August 28, 2012 at 12:06 am

      And what fact / issue are you clarifying & with what evidence ?
      .
      Ah-mazing isn’t it :)
      .
      DSM

    • CuriousChris Reply

      August 28, 2012 at 12:40 am

      If by in bed you mean Paul now understands why Krivit (who aside from Jed Rothwell is probably the most informed of all Cold fusion reporters, and IMHO far less biased) thinks Rossi is deceitful. Then maybe you are right.

    • Methusela Reply

      August 28, 2012 at 7:03 am

      Don’t you get it?

      Paul’s working with GreenWin!

      Collecting candidates for 2013!

    • Frank Reply

      August 28, 2012 at 11:31 am

      I don’t care about ‘who is in bed with Krivit’
      More interesting is: ‘Who is in bed with Rossi?’

  16. spacegoat Reply

    August 28, 2012 at 2:45 am

    The latest RossiSays are mere “tea leaves” to amuse the skeptics. RossiSays is void of any scientific or technical merit. There is no data on which to base an opinion. Amateur thermodynamic models and extrapolations based on RossiSays are worthless. However, Krivit’s 2011 Youtube video “The_Failure_of_Rossi_s_Energy_Catalyzer_Caught_on_Video” is certainly interesting, especially the second part where Rossi appears to lack a grasp of high school physics. Perhaps he was nervous?

    There is no change in RossiSays outlook since January 2011: Rossi may have stumbled upon an enhancement to Ni-H LENR. Judging by the video above and by his statements on business, AR is not likely to master the control aspects and is unlikely to gather a competent team around him due to paranoia and the Bill Gates syndrome. On the other hand DGT may have gathered a suitable team and mastered the control aspects. Despite the sneering on this site, DGT have published an impressive paper on engineering control of LENR. They have addressed and come under the scrutiny of a community of highly qualified scientists and engineers at ICCF17 and NI Week. This is much much more than RossiSays or RossiDemos.

    There is no alternative but to wait. How long? 6 months from the date of ICCF17 – the limit given by DGT for their public industrial prototype.

    These things go in cycles. After the feeding of the skeptics comes the feeding of the believers (Sept. 8).

  17. dsm Reply

    August 28, 2012 at 3:03 am

    Some more humor.
    .
    On ecatworld, some are trying to interpret the Passarini lightning allegory.
    .
    I posted an interpretation that works for me, (see the post at the very top of this thread (it shows as August 28, 2012 at 2:15 am ). Mine was after Methusela posted the original link here (Methusela also posted it at ecatworld).
    .
    But on eCatWorld true to the nature of that site some one has come up with this wonderful interpretation …
    .
    Peter Roe on August 27, 2012 at 8:05 pm
    .
    Maybe Rossi himself is the distraction – while someone else gets on with the real job? That would certainly put many things in an entirely new light… Possibly we are way deeper in the ‘compost’ than we ever imagined.
    .
    Then GreenWin says :) LOL …
    .
    GreenWin on August 27, 2012 at 8:23 pm
    .
    Peter, you would make an excellent MI5 analyst. What you propose is an Enigma, wrapped in a paradox, inside a conundrum. Well done.
    .
    **********************************************
    .
    But think about it. The core challenge to Rossi is running the dealer conference and he needs to do that to avoid any growing anger (or heat) from the people he took money from as ‘agents’.
    .
    Rossi sets the date for the biggest event in his business – his 1st ever agents conference. He has *no* demos, he has *no* validation of the device, but all these people are coming together to celebrate their joint future.
    .
    So in order for Rossi to distract attention (lightening strikes from an angry mob of agents) he tantalizes with ‘hints’ of UniBol validation to take place after the conference ends. And this ‘real validation’ never will take place.
    .
    Now that UniBol has pulled the plug somewhat, Rossi is in even deeper. If he can he will keep trying to distract the potential ire from his agents with his usual Rossi says approach but he is running out of options.
    .
    So IMHO it is also farcical for anyone to try to lift the ‘lightning allegory’ story up to meaning more than it does. Some are starting to interpret it as meaning Rossi is the distraction while other LENR organizations make the progress behind the scenes.
    .
    Accepting this interpretation means accepting it as a nonsensical ‘parable’ where Passarini suddenly was hit by a lightning bolt of divine awareness that goes way beyond his observer blogging involvement. GreenWin in particular sounds totally desperate !. Poor bastard, I actually feel sorry for him. :(
    .
    DSM

    • Peter Roe Reply

      August 28, 2012 at 10:12 am

      DSM – As you choose to quote (and sneer at) a part of the exchange on e-catworld, I’ll take the opportunity to copy a little more of it here for balance:

      Peter Roe on August 27, 2012 at 8:47 pm
      Possibly not quite that complex, GW, but it would imply a ‘Project’ of great breadth and complexity. And the existence of more ‘good guys’ with a lot of power, working together at a very high level, than have so far been evident.

      At this point I only put the idea forward as a possibility for consideration – but it would explain many things.

      tappanjack on August 27, 2012 at 9:19 pm
      PR: I think we need to remember that Mr Rossi is reporting results to Siemens, which would be the exact match of what you have described.

      Peter Roe on August 27, 2012 at 9:35 pm
      If there is anything at all in such a scenario there would be players at many levels and degrees of awareness of the game. The CEOs and top executives of various enlightened corporations (if that’s not an oxymoron) would be at or near the apex I think.

      • Methusela Reply

        August 28, 2012 at 11:09 am

        Yes, DSM has got the ‘wrong end of the stick’ WRT to Daniele’s lightning conductor blog posting.

        • Dsm Reply

          August 28, 2012 at 12:15 pm

          Says who Methusela ? You :)
          .
          And so you speak for Passarini ?. I think not.
          .
          DSM

          • Methusela

            August 28, 2012 at 12:27 pm

            And you do?

          • dsm

            August 28, 2012 at 10:12 pm

            I never claimed to – read what I posted after your original one :)
            .
            Methusela, you are an enigma, wrapped in plastic wrap in a Schrödinger box. LOL :)
            .
            Cheers, your friend DSM :)

      • John Milstone Reply

        August 28, 2012 at 11:26 am

        PR: I think we need to remember that Mr Rossi is reporting results to Siemens, which would be the exact match of what you have described.

        There is no evidence to support this claim.

      • Dsm Reply

        August 28, 2012 at 12:10 pm

        I saw enough :)
        .
        I am sorry you saw a sneer ? – you have incredible vision :)
        .
        I prefer the intelligent interpretation over the wishful thinking version Peter. Thanks for dropping by
        .
        DSM

        • Peter Roe Reply

          August 28, 2012 at 1:18 pm

          No worries, Doug. Just thought I’d drop by and see what was happening in my old playground, but I see it’s just the usual tired yah-boo nonsense.

          Don’t you ever get fed up with it? Presumably not, as you seem to enjoy getting down with the kids rather more than is probably healthy.

          I’ll be back off to talk to the grownups then. Cheers.

          • JNewman

            August 28, 2012 at 1:27 pm

            Thanks for one of most unintentionally hilarious posts ever!

          • dsm

            August 28, 2012 at 10:09 pm

            LOL :)
            .
            D

      • Thicket Reply

        August 28, 2012 at 1:29 pm

        A cameo appearance by Peter Roe :)

        I see that you’re much more comfortable with your fellow woo-woo true-believing nutters over on eCatworld. Just as well. You’d be continuously laughed at and ridiculed on any site that doesn’t just cater to only believers.

        You actually believe that Rossi is reporting results to Siemens? Bwaahaahaa. Give the power knob on your tin foil hat another twist.

        You think that there is some kind of overriding plot where Rossi is the distraction while others carry on the ‘real’ job? /facepalm. You continue to be the conspiracy nutjob.

        Thanks for the appearance, but it would probably be too hot for you here. You’re probably best going back to your cloud-hopping, dreamland friends.

        • Sojourner Soo Reply

          August 28, 2012 at 5:10 pm

          Rainer: Do you realize how puerile your comments are? You are old man, presumably one who is well-educated. That childish comment was retarded. You embarrass me. Are you quite sure you’re Canadian? I’m wondering if you’re not an American ex-pat….

          • Thicket

            August 28, 2012 at 5:32 pm

            Ah Soo. The deceitful, blackmailing, scientfically ignorant, tongue-wagging, lip-smacking hypocrite.

            You ask for proof of Rossi’s fraud, yet you conclude that Stremmenos is a liar simply because he’s a politician. That’s just one example of your hypocrisy.

            You are self-centred and conceited. You are blindingly ignorant of the subject matter discussed on this forum, yet you persistently drool out nonsense.

            Are you still blackmailing me, you low-life piece of trash?

          • Thicket

            August 28, 2012 at 6:40 pm

            Oh, and what’s this anti-American stuff, Soo? I respect our neighbour to the south. Apparently you don’t. Care to share your prejudices with us? I suspect the American posters on this forum will appreciate your anti-American sentiment, not.

          • Sojourner Soo

            August 28, 2012 at 8:41 pm

            Blackmailing you how exactly, Rainer? You need to look up the definition of that word. It means to extort payment in exchange for silence, or it means to threaten or coerce someone for some purpose. Since I am neither demanding payment from you for anything, nor am I threatening or coercing you in any way, shape or form, ergo I’m not blackmailing you. You are not only an old fool, you are a paranoid old fool, Rainer. Probably American, too, since you worked in the tarsands, likely for Koch Brothers. Any American who understands the fossil fuel business would automatically understand why a Canadian opposed to the tarsands isn’t so fond of Americans. Perimeter Security Agreement ring any bells? Beyond the Border agreement? Hello? Oh heck. Nobody home in that skull. Like I said, probably American.

          • Stephen

            August 29, 2012 at 2:55 am

            Eh, Soo, is that an American cartoon, standing as your avatar? Even worse, gulp!, a corporate fascist WALT DISNEY cartoon? I’m wondering if you’re not an American ex-pat….

  18. Franco Reply

    August 28, 2012 at 3:15 am

    I read with fascination all the inane comments, especially Mr.Krivits.It validates ( Those who can, Do, Those who
    can’t, teach or criticize.) Reading and trying to sort out the the real debunkers from the paid vested interest lackeys,
    should be the priority of the readers who seek a better healthier world.
    Mr.Andrea Rossi is a hero, consider all the cemeteries full
    to capacity, and more in the offing, caused and continuing
    for the coffers of the energy cartels.
    Congratulations, Mr.Rossi stick to your guns, and when you
    are ready present all sceptics with a Fait accompli.
    Franco

  19. Frank Zamburro Reply

    August 28, 2012 at 4:09 am

    Could you please explain why my comments have been deleted, could it be that eCat News are a part of vested interest?
    This is the second time this has occured, and the manner in which the defamatory statements about Mr. Rossi have been posted and proliferated are not coincidental.
    You are obviously only seeking negativity and no balanced debate,
    You are another Krivits, it is great to judge and defame,I hope you will be as prolific with your apologies when you have to eat humble pie.

    Franco

    • admin Reply

      August 28, 2012 at 6:25 pm

      It wasn’t deleted but held for moderation. I deleted it just now. It is not good form to post 10,596 words of Italian as a comment on an English-speaking blog. I never even attempted to read it.

      Paul

  20. Dale G. Basgall Reply

    August 28, 2012 at 8:07 am

    Just like another birthday, something to experience but just another day in life. I don’t think this Bologna issue (or non) with Rossi has surprised anyone actually. After a year and a half under the eye of the public it would seem Mr. Rossi should be exhausted to say the least.

    It is difficult to comprehend this could be a perpetuated scam, not the observation of LENR but the continued statements Mr. Rossi is making in text as read in the e-mails above.

  21. CuriousChris Reply

    August 28, 2012 at 11:36 am

    Just for a change of subject, the latest Bob Rohner video

    Bob made this video to warn people about the dangers in building his brothers “popper”, in it he takes a swipe at me and probably others, its a gentle swipe, he comments about not having a coil on it as “the coil serves a different purpose than most people think”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qqHI-WHQiE

    Bob implies the video is made only over a few minutes and is a single take. he even quite deliberately states the control is a distance away for ‘safety’ and therefore there is a lapse between moving from the device to the switch.

    Please watch the video closely (high res). Take careful note of the window in the rear right and the stopcock on the ‘vacuum gauge’ (we only have his word its a vacuum). The interesting stuff starts at about 4:20.

    You will notice that the stopcock changes between pops and that as indicated by the changing light in the window the video happens over a period of time and then is carefully edited down. Also note his comments earlier in the video about the positioning of the stopcock and how a wrongly positioned stopcock can damage the machine.

    I deserve no credit for noticing these anomalies, a true believer did, I am just passing them on for comment.

    • RonB Reply

      August 28, 2012 at 1:31 pm

      Chris,
      It seems that huge bank of caps represents enough energy to drive a coil hard enough to cause the effect.

      • CuriousChris Reply

        August 28, 2012 at 2:39 pm

        Yes Ron I am aware of that. I have been in discussion with Bob. I asked him about the coil and he got abusive along with others.

        If you want to read more of the conversation that took place about Bob, McKubre and the Papp ‘plasma’ engine it starts here.
        http://ecatnews.com/?p=2279#comment-36031

        The fact that it an air line going into the side of it is also a point of note. It could well be driven pneumatically, the so called vacuum pump you hear running in the background could be a compressor.

        The main point of the video was to show its doctored nature, not to speculate on what method he uses to produce the action.

    • CuriousChris Reply

      August 29, 2012 at 2:27 am

      Hmmm I wonder where DSM is? after his last
      “Easy question mate” he has gone awfully quiet on the Bob Rohner, Mike McKubre topic.

      If any ones interested I have what I believe is final proof of Bobs deliberate deception. but I have gone off topic enough so unless someone asks for it I won’t bother.

  22. buffalo Reply

    August 28, 2012 at 12:59 pm

    the question is.would a scammer fuck the public around to such a degree knowing that he is now under a intense spotlight.i dont see the point.

    • John Milstone Reply

      August 28, 2012 at 1:19 pm

      He only has to fool a select group of the most gullible.

      He doesn’t care what the rest of the world thinks.

      • JNewman Reply

        August 28, 2012 at 1:32 pm

        I guess some people just cannot grasp the concept that the only refutation that something could be a scam is proof that what the scammer is selling is legitimate. Arguments about motivation, mechanics, and anything else just don’t matter.

        • Sojourner Soo Reply

          August 28, 2012 at 5:17 pm

          By the same token, those arguing Rossi is a fraud and a scammer have zero proof, either. You both lose. I’ll just continue to bide my time. Mistaking Italian histrionics for something else is common, so I think I’ll just wait for Rossi and UNIBO to settle their differences. They will, eventually, you know. UNIBO has a NI-equipped lab now. Surely they won’t let all that perfectly good computer equipment go to waste when Rossi’s E-Cats and Hot Cats are on campus? That would be a shame…

          • JNewman

            August 28, 2012 at 6:28 pm

            Sojourner, you never answered my question from the other day: what reason(s) do you have to believe anything Rossi has ever said?

          • John Milstone

            August 28, 2012 at 6:30 pm

            Yet another tiresome “National Instruments means it must be real!” rant.

            Piantelli and Focardi were using National Instrument equipment and software back in the mid-90s (LINK, p. 1234). It didn’t help them prove their claims then.

            The only “differences” between Rossi and UniBo is that Rossi keeps lying in order to “borrow” credibility from UniBo, and UniBo is getting tired of Rossi’s lies.

          • Sojourner Soo

            August 28, 2012 at 9:11 pm

            JNewman: Why do I believe Rossi has something? Well, mostly because of what other scientists who’ve actually witnessed the E-Cat working have said, including Levi, Focardi, and others at UNIBO (names forgotten now), the Swedish scientists from the Skeptic society, Mats Lewans, Domenico Fioravanti, and also because of what NASA’s people, Bushnell and Zawodny (sp?), are saying. There’s also Brian Josephson’s early endorsement, even though he, for reasons I don’t capische, turned down the offer to test the thing for himself.

            I also have a healthy respect for Italian inventiveness. My late father was from Milan and he was very much like Rossi, always tinkering about working out practical problems in electricity, heating, plumbing, construction, etc., but, without Rossi’s mouth, I might add. What is it about Milan’s education system and culture that it turns out men like that, i.e. knowledgeable about how to wire, plumb, carpenter, etc.? Not that I have much respect for Rossi. He’s much too greedy in my opinion, and he refuses to be honest and transparent. If he’s got something, he should give it to humanity, who has more need of it than his ego. He’s quite a character and it’s increasingly difficult to take anything he writes or says seriously, but I do believe he’s got something.

            Mostly however, I tend to think LENR is real because of social evolution theory, the Kondratieff Wave, and Schumpeter’s expansion of that theory. A new form of energy is, to put it simply, due right about now. All the signs are there, if one knows where to look for them. If LENR is not real, well then, it’s almost time to start saying “Ciao” to all your friends and family. It annoys me that Rossi is sitting on this. I hope DGT beats him at his own game, for that reason.

          • PersonFromPorlock

            August 28, 2012 at 9:49 pm

            As a scammer, Rossi passes the Duck Test; as an engineer/entrepreneur, not so much.

          • John Milstone

            August 28, 2012 at 9:54 pm

            Why do I believe Rossi has something? Well, mostly because of what other scientists who’ve actually witnessed the E-Cat working have said, including Levi, Focardi, and others at UNIBO (names forgotten now), the Swedish scientists from the Skeptic society, Mats Lewans, Domenico Fioravanti, and also because of what NASA’s people, Bushnell and Zawodny (sp?), are saying.

            Many of the scientists who witnessed the E-Cat first-hand have carefully stated that they need independent testing before they would believe it, generally making statements like, “If one believes Rossi, then it’s a big deal”. Unfortunately, the qualification is always left out of the True Believers’ version.

            You’ve left out the fact that Rossi tried to strong-arm $15 million from NASA, then refused to let them see it work, and became enraged and kicked them out. You also left out that the conclusion NASA drew was that his “demos” were completely inadequate to justify his claims.

            Mats Lewan has been way to cozy to Rossi to be a credible independent witness.

            Domenico Fioavanti is still an anonymous character. We don’t even know if that’s his real name. All we know about him is “Rossi Says” he’s both independent and an old buddy.

            Zawodny has made it clear that he doesn’t believe Rossi’s claims.

            Your examples are excessively weak.

          • Sojourner Soo

            August 28, 2012 at 10:28 pm

            Fiavoranti is not an “old buddy.” I would hardly call somebody I met in university over 30 years ago an “old buddy.” And for the demand for $15 M, that’s falls under “greedy.” NASA actually should have given him the $15 Million. This debate would be over. It was worth the $15 million. Peanuts in the grand scheme of things.

            Speaking of NASA, and the USA, how much of this back and forth is geopolitical in nature? Isn’t it enough that Rossi lives in the USA? Does he have to give the American government everything it demands for almost nothing in return? I would have given Rossi the $15 million and gladly so. If it were real, just think? The USA could then leave Canada’s tarsands alone (and everybody else’s oil for that matter) and stop meddling in our political system. I’d be quite happy, let me tell you.

          • John Milstone

            August 28, 2012 at 10:37 pm

            Fiavoranti is not an “old buddy.” I would hardly call somebody I met in university over 30 years ago an “old buddy.”

            How do you know? No one has been able to find a shred of evidence about any aspect of the man. We don’t even know that that’s his real name. We certainly don’t know anything about his career or education. All we have is “Rossi says” (as usual).

            And for the demand for $15 M, that’s falls under “greedy.” NASA actually should have given him the $15 Million

            I’m certainly glad you don’t live in the United States. Maybe Canada should give him the $15 Million. After all, their contribution to space exploration is a robot arm, so they could probably help Rossi with his robotic factory.

          • Sojourner Soo

            August 28, 2012 at 10:56 pm

            Read his posts at Cobra, assuming they are still there. He talks about his early relationship with Rossi, even before he contacted him and became involved in the E-Cat story. They were definitely not close friends or buddies. I believe he was an investor of some sort, too, in his pre-Rossi E-Cat, post-NATO days. Wrote his own computerized stock market software trading program, which he claims was quite successful. He’s clearly involved in the E-Cat to make money. Good for him. I’m cheering for the Italians, even if Rossi annoys me more often than not. And I agree: I’m glad I am not an American, either. Yuk!

          • JNewman

            August 28, 2012 at 10:56 pm

            Well, Sojourner, you finally answered my question. I think I’ll go with the social evolution theory as your core reason. At least that one hasn’t been torn to shreds here repeatedly.

            Thanks for the civil response. Now back to the mayhem…

          • Ivy Matt

            August 29, 2012 at 1:48 pm

            Mostly however, I tend to think LENR is real because of social evolution theory, the Kondratieff Wave, and Schumpeter’s expansion of that theory. A new form of energy is, to put it simply, due right about now. All the signs are there, if one knows where to look for them. If LENR is not real, well then, it’s almost time to start saying “Ciao” to all your friends and family.

            I don’t necessarily disagree with your basic argument. After all, “necessity is the mother of invention” and all that. However, taking it as granted that a new form of energy is due right about now, how do you know what form this new energy will take? How do you know it’s going to be Rossi’s E-Cat, or even some other LENR device? How do you know it’s not going to be magnetic motors, or noble gas engines, or zero point energy devices, or antigravity devices, or even thorium fission reactors? Without using scientific criteria, how do you distinguish these various new energy technologies?

    • CuriousChris Reply

      August 28, 2012 at 2:43 pm

      “would a scammer fuck the public around to such a degree”

      Yes absolutely. Its what they get off on.

      Its like the murderer taunting the police. They believe they are smarter than everybody else and will get away with it, the truth is they mostly do. Rossi is a classic example.

      To be a brazen scammer like Rossi appears to be, you must be an actor, a confidence trickster and have a huge ego.

  23. Al Potenza Reply

    August 28, 2012 at 4:31 pm

    “DGT have published an impressive paper on engineering control of LENR. They have addressed and come under the scrutiny of a community of highly qualified scientists and engineers at ICCF17 and NI Week. This is much much more than RossiSays or RossiDemos.”
    -
    No. It’s exactly the same thing. It’s claims and nothing else. Absent independent testing by a credible entity, it’s totally and completely worthless.

    When will you learn: CLAIMS ARE NOT EVIDENCE! No matter where they are presented nor in front of whom.

    • Ransompw Reply

      August 28, 2012 at 5:09 pm

      Al:

      I am not sure what you mean by evidence, but scientic papers even though they are peer reviewed do not have 3rd party tests to verify the results. So your point is inaccurate and misleading.

      Published information does not have to be disregarded because 3rd parties haven’t yet tested. However, I agree that the published information should give 3rd parties interested an opportunity to test. Defkalion hasn’t published enough detail yet to allow replication of their tests.

      • JNewman Reply

        August 28, 2012 at 5:16 pm

        Peer-reviewed scientific papers generally provide sufficient detail that one skilled in the art can reproduce the results. Defkalion is ludicrously far from that standard.

      • Al Potenza Reply

        August 28, 2012 at 6:12 pm

        You call what Defkalion gave at NI Week and ICCF17 scientific papers? Have you never seen a scientific paper? ROTFWL.

        For example, Defkalion gave (incredible) power and energy results for its reactors. They never said how they tested them. They never showed actual data. It’s just smoke and mirrors from them as usual. It’s no better than the claims on their forum, the one they censor heavily and have been claiming high power and energy on since June 2011.

        Defkalion claimed that SEVEN illustrious and well known entities tested their claims last April. WHERE are those results? For openers, WHO are the testers? Has ANYONE admitted in public doing a single test on Defkalion gear?

  24. Dale G. Basgall Reply

    August 28, 2012 at 5:05 pm

    Why doesn’t someone go interview Mrs. Rossi, just think setting in her hairdressers in the chair while she is telling the ladies about all the Mr. Roosi did stuff. That’s where the real story lies, Mrs. Rossi.

    Heck the presidents do it, a bad day and they get the family out on stage. One yesterday got his blonde green eyed wife out on stage, made headlines, go figure. Maybe the Rossi’s have a pet Mr. Rossi could bring to the next demo, like a toy poodle or something like that, named nickel.

    There’s another side to this story somewhere but nobodies tapped it yet.

    • Al Potenza Reply

      August 28, 2012 at 5:07 pm

      Cute. But Nickel won’t do any tricks unless you preheat his tail by plugging him into the mains or into a giant Diesel generator.

      • Methusela Reply

        August 28, 2012 at 6:55 pm

        Perhaps we could get you to wear one of those electric dog collars on whatever piece of your anatomy you use for comment input.

        Then we could give the control to GreenWin, or perhaps link it to the ecatnews RSS feeds, so that everytime you send a comment with “scam”, “liar”, or “fraud” in it, or any comment at all in fact, you receive an electric shock.

        Works for yapping dogs, perhaps it would work for you?

  25. stanem Reply

    August 28, 2012 at 6:18 pm

    rossi is a crook

    • Dale G. Basgall Reply

      August 28, 2012 at 7:26 pm

      Now stanem those are some pretty sure words, and yes Mr. Rossi operates by his own drummer. Slightly essentric and perpetually reactive.

      So he has a right to say and do whatever he wants and the only effect will fall directly back onto his shoulders. So how is he a crook? How is he a scammer? The point is he is not a crook or a scammer, just a person wanting to capitalize on what he himself believes in. It’s a dream of his to develop this, we need to just wait and see what comes from the results of his claims. Crook is a general term so maybe you could let us know in words what crooked act did he do to you?

      • Al Potenza Reply

        August 28, 2012 at 8:20 pm

        “Crook” is when one takes money on the pretext of having a technology, knowing full well that such a technology does not exist. “Crook” is making phony demonstrations using electrical heaters and pretending to investors that it is LENR. Clear enough?

  26. Thicket Reply

    August 28, 2012 at 7:47 pm

    An enduring argument used by Believers is that there is no ‘proof’ that Rossi is a fraud. It’s an argument that Believers use in defending the whole spectrum of pseudoscientific scams.

    In a court of law in most Western democracies, guilt is determined when the evidence supports a guilty verdict beyond reasonable doubt. Often there is no uncontestable ‘proof’ of guilt. With a guilty verdict, there is a convincing body of evidence supporting the verdict.

    By analogy, there are many deniers of visits to the moon, or the 9-11 tragedy. Believers claim that there is no ‘proof’ that the moon walks happened or that Al-Qaeda was responsible for 9-11. I hope that forum posters accept that these denials are ludicrous.

    It’s the same with Rossi. The evidence overwhelmingly points to fraud. The past fraud convictions, the bogus Petroldragon and thermoelectric converter claims, the mountain of confirmed lies and the efforts to extract money from licensees paint a clear picture of deliberate fraud. Harping on the word ‘proof’ is simply a denial, a failure to see the obvious. It may not be in the same league as moon travel and 9-11 deniers, but it nevertheless is irrational denial.

    • Methusela Reply

      August 28, 2012 at 7:50 pm

      Still following the path of least resistance eh? ;)

    • Thicket Reply

      August 28, 2012 at 7:51 pm

      I’ve updated my list of evidence showing Rossi is a fraud. I know that it’s not complete.

      • University of Uppsala measured nickel and copper compounds in Rossi-supplied used ECat catalyst. Swedish physics professor Kjell Aleklett stated that copper isotope ratios were found to be the same as in nature and not what would be expected from a fusion reaction. Also, the percentage of copper was too high for any known nickel reaction.

      • Kullander and Essen’s trip to witness an ECat demonstration was paid for by Rossi.

      • Rossi claims that there is a self-destruct mechanism on the E-cat fusion reactor that prohibits unauthorized inspection of the internals.

      • Rossi has five criminal convictions including two jail terms for the ‘sheik of Brianza’. Rossi was a fraud.

      • Petroldragon was a failed venture. Despite claims of technology that converted waste to oil, there is no evidence of any oil production.

      • Thermoelectric converter technology provided for the U.S. Department of Defense was a failure. Only eight of twenty-seven devices functioned. They produced 1 watt of power versus the 800 to 1000 watts claimed. Later devices produced no more than regular devices commercially available.

      • Rossi has a fraudulent degree from fraudulent Kensington University.

      • Rossi claims that the ECat is ready for commercialization, yet he appeals to folks to come up with a cold fusion plant design that he will pay for. He wants it to cost around 500 Euros per kW. He needs it in the next two months.

      • NASA study shows that steam production from a Rossi demonstration could come from electrical heater input.

      • Julian Brown from the European Patent Office was a Rossi supporter. He witnessed an ECat demonstration and concluded that the ECat technology wasn’t real.

      • Long-time LENR supporter, and initial Rossi supporter Steven Krivit changes his mind after witnessing an ECat demonstration.

      • Rossi says that there are no Ecats except with him. Rossi also says that there are 97 Ecats in continuous operation in 4 countries.

      • Rossi says that the ECat operates at about 500 deg.C. Rossi also says that the ECat operates at about 1500 deg. C which is above the melting point of nickel used in his catalyst. He then said the reactor operated at 600 deg. C, 1000 deg. C and 1200 deg. C.

      • Rossi calls detractors ‘snakes and clowns’, some paid, with various despicable agendas. He states that he is being blackmailed.

      • Rossi has had at least twelve ‘demonstrations’, none of which have credibly demonstrated the ECat technology.

      • The latest October 6 ECat demonstration is saddled with extraneous unnecessary equipment (e.g. heat exchanger) that complicate measurements.

      • The October ECat demonstration weight measurements were determined by a bathroom digital scale calibrated by two men who knew their weight.

      • Rossi’s demonstrations show small temperature differences when a simple reduction in water flow would show large and easily measurable temperatures difference.

      • Rossi’s public demonstrations usually have unnecessary phase changes (water to steam) that complicate interpretation.

      • Rossi used a relative humidity meter during some demonstrations and erroneously reached steam quality conclusions.

      • All of Rossi’s demonstrations are witness tests. Rossi runs them. Guests watch or participate under Rossi’s supervision. There are no known independent third party tests.

      • Conclusively validating ECat energy generation is easy, yet Rossi has never allowed it.

      • Despite claims of continuous operation for days, weeks and months, actual demonstrations have only lasted for hours.

      • The Defkalion partnership with Rossi ended up a fiasco.

      • The claimed major American investor and 1 MW demonstration in the United States ended up as a fiasco.

      • Rossi claims that he has a fusion reaction but that there is no gamma or neutron radiation found in fusion reactions.

      • There are no known ECat collaborators. Close colleague Focardi states that he has no knowledge of key ECat technology. Rossi has made it clear that the ECat is his show and no one else. Rossi also states that in the event of his death, he has organized ECat commercialization to continue.

      • Despite claims of huge ECat energy release, even the most optimistic interpretation of demonstration data shows modest energy.

      • Rossi states that ECat probably doesn’t work due to cold fusion, but due to weak interactions between nuclei without actual fusion happening. Contradicting this, Rossi states that ECat fuses nickel and hydrogen protons to produce copper.

      • Rossi thinks that he can easily send fusion reactors to the United States with no Customs or government issues.

      • Rossi’s pretentiously named Journal of Nuclear Physics in reality is his own personal blog. He claims that papers published on his blog are peer-reviewed.

      • Despite supposedly being consumed by his ECat work, Rossi spends a lot of time on his blog.

      • One of the advisers for the Journal of Nuclear Physics is Michael Melich. Melich styles himself as a covert intelligence agent tasked by the U.S. government to promote and keep an eye on cold fusion.

      • Another adviser is Professor George Kelly of the University of New Hampshire. The University does not know of any such professor. There was a Professor George Kelly but he was in the field of Psychology. That Professor George Kelly is dead.

      • Rossi’s blog is heavily moderated to screen out posts that ask tough questions.

      • With the exception of one Italian patent, Rossi has been unsuccessful getting ECat patents.

      • Large heat release from nickel in a hydrogen atmosphere has been known in industry for over 50 years. ‘Anomalous’ heat from nickel/hydrogen reactions was first recorded in 1936.

      • Rossi (and Focardi) have been unsuccessful in getting published in mainstream peer-reviewed scientific journals.

      • Despite numerous statements of ECat testing at Universities of Uppsala, Stockholm and Bologna, no tests have taken place to date.

      • Despite numerous misleading indications, Rossi has no endorsement from the University of Bologna. Endorsements from folks like Focardi and Levi, are personal. The head of the University of Bologna physics department is embarrassed by the things Focardi has said.

      • Rossi claims that an ECat installed in 2007 operates 24 hours a day providing heat to the EON factory at via Carlo Ragazzi 18 in Bondeno. EON is owned by Rossi. Rossi also claims he is producing hot water in his home with an ECat. There has been no independent confirmation of either application.

      • Despite claims of successful, continuous operation at EON, the ECat did not run in September 2011 in front of NASA and a potential third party investor during a two-day period.

      • Rossi says he has received no compensation for his ECat yet AmpEnergo is said to have granted money to Rossi.

      • Rossi claims that once he gets proceeds from ECat sales, 50% of the money will be used for expansion and 50% to treat children with cancer. Rossi says he will personally look for families who cannot afford the treatment for their children.

      • Rossi claims that his ECat will use Stirling engines to produce electricity despite the fact that the largest known Stirling engine is only 0.75 MW.

      • Professor Peter Ekstrom of Lund University calls Rossi’s invention a scam and pseudoscience. His statement is based on the unlikelihood of a chemical reaction being strong enough to break the Coulomb barrier, the lack of gamma radiation, the lack of explanation for the claimed excess energy, the lack of expected radiation after fusing a proton with nickel, the unexplained presence of 11% iron in the spent fuel, and the fact that the 10% copper in the spent fuel had the same isotope ratios as natural copper. He also questioned the steam velocity and the possibility of liquid water in the ECat outlet tube.

      • Nuclear chemist Camillo Franchini says that the Energy Catalyst can’t work properly because it doesn’t follow the laws of physics.

      • ECat fusion theory is sparse, basically consisting of hydrogen atoms penetrating nickel to produce copper and release energy.

      • Rossi was caught on-camera at the electric input controls during a Mats Lewan demonstration.

      • The majority of ECat demonstrations only include specifically Rossi invited guests.

      • Rossi says he was collaborating with National Instruments. NI said they weren’t.

      • Rossi said that the eCat from his end-October 2011 ‘demonstration’ was sold to a secret customer, delivered to U.S. with the installation being supported by Rossi. This eCat hadn’t moved by January, 2012.

      • The representative of the ‘secret customer’ who validated Rossi’s eCat in October, 2012 (the infamous NATO colonel), turns out to be an old Rossi crone from the Petroldragon days.

      • Rossi’s approach to scamming folks by selling licenses is revealed in Australia.

      • Believers tout Kullander as a Rossi supporter. He was supposed to issue isotope analyses in late 2011. We’re still waiting.

      • Rossi told Florida authorities that he has no manufacturing facilities in the U.S. He’s publicly stated that he does have manufacturing facilities in the U.S.

      • These manufacturing facilities are supposed to be producing a million eCats in 2012. Other than ‘Rossi says’ there is no evidence of production anywhere.

      • Rossi touts having a working relationship with Siemens. Siemens says nothing.

      • In summer of 2012, the University of Bologna again denies working with Rossi, contrary to Rossi’s claims.

      • Al Potenza Reply

        August 28, 2012 at 8:30 pm

        Good job. I am going to see if someone can put that in a web site somewhere so it doesn’t get lost to the sands of time like most everything in here does fairly soon.

      • Methusela Reply

        August 28, 2012 at 8:52 pm

        I love the way you all post, slapping each other on the back :)

        Lightning rods, anyone?

        • JNewman Reply

          August 28, 2012 at 9:07 pm

          I like the way you respond to more than fifty specific negative facts about Rossi with worthless personal abuse. I’ve come to believe that the biggest problem facing any broader interest in LENR is the behavior of its current advocates. If there were a few more civil individuals on that side of the aisle, the might be more communication.

          • Methusela

            August 28, 2012 at 9:16 pm

            Not personal abuse, group abuse ;)

            A group of nasty pseudo-intellectuals, drooling towards the end of their lives, too scared to face the fact that they’re wrong…

            In my humble opinion…

            That last phrase which you STILL don’t prefix your waffle with.

          • Methusela

            August 28, 2012 at 9:22 pm

            Actually, personal abuse is not worthless.

            You’ve collectively subjected Rossi, Levi, Lewan, et. al, to a tirade of accusations and abuse.

            You’ve heard the phrase “Mud sticks”?

            You, collectively again, are attempting to assassinate their character.

          • Sojourner Soo

            August 28, 2012 at 9:28 pm

            I’m with Methusela. The abuse comes from the skeptics and it’s been that way from the very beginning. I love getting them all pissed off at me, especially Rainer, Potenza, and Milstone. It’s amusing…for the time being. I find it hysterically laughable, Newman, that you consider that absurd list above to be some sort of proof of a scam. It’s all nonsensical, immaterial, inconsequential drivel, for the most part. Who would even want to address it, point by point? Not me, that’s for damned sure.

          • Ransompw

            August 28, 2012 at 9:30 pm

            Newman:

            Most of Thickets facts are not evidence. There are plenty of reasons to doubt Rossi and Thicket points out quite a few of them, but by far the overwhelming evidence against Rossi is the lack of proof (3rd Party) he has a real reactor. It is time he had proof. So I have concluded we won’t be seeing any from him.

            Of course all he has to do to prove us all wrong is produce a real working reactor and have a credible 3rd Party like UoB perform tests. I don’t think he will, but Thickets list would be meaningless in its face.

          • JNewman

            August 28, 2012 at 9:35 pm

            I’ve come to doubt your cognitive skills, Sojourn. Did I say anything about Thicket’s posts being proof of a scam? No I didn’t. I don’t believe you actually read anything that people say; you just launch into your tirades.

            Like I said, I’ve come to believe that the biggest problem facing any broader interest in LENR is the behavior of its current advocates. If there were a few more civil individuals on that side of the aisle, there might be more communication.

            But who needs communication? Cackle away, folks.

          • Ransompw

            August 28, 2012 at 9:43 pm

            Newman:

            You keep saying the believer side is abusive, but I really see little difference in the conduct of either side. If anything Al is maybe the most belligerent poster on this site.

          • JNewman

            August 28, 2012 at 9:59 pm

            Ransome, you are one of only a very few non-skeptics (is that really better than the b-word?) who ever deigns to present counter arguments or try to refute the statements of skeptics. The others immediately resort to sneering and personal attacks. While it is certainly true that the skeptics do their share of mudslinging, most of what they post is in the form of criticisms and refutations of claims by Rossi et al. Of course, that is also unacceptable because it is “boring” and “repetitive”.

            No, the Methuselas, GreenWins and Sojourns of the world have no interest in establishing the validity of their ideas via intellectual argument. They just want to name-call, chortle like a b-movie villain, and deflect the discussion from actual facts. I’m not sure what it accomplishes, but obviously it makes them feel good about themselves.

            Hey, but that’s just one of the free services available on the wild wild web

          • Sojourner Soo

            August 28, 2012 at 10:12 pm

            Newman? Do you seriously think your behaviour is any better? Give your head a shake! Almost everything I’ve read from you has been patronizing, insulting, demeaning, and rude, to whomever. So take off the halo, mister. You are projecting your own sins onto everyone else.

          • JNewman

            August 28, 2012 at 10:16 pm

            And you are a delightful soul, Sojourner. I am so pleased that you grace us with your presence here. The forces of good are blessed to have you as a vocal advocate.

          • Sojourner Soo

            August 28, 2012 at 10:33 pm

            See what I mean? What do want me to say? I can be as mouthy as the next person. It isn’t me wearing the halo here. That’d be you, Newman. It makes me laugh the way some of you seem to think I’m going bow down and kiss your asses. Pfffttt! Tit for tat. It works.

      • Dale G. Basgall Reply

        August 28, 2012 at 9:45 pm

        Is there just one thing he said, and did, could we look at the positive side here?

        Those are some straight forward arguments about Mr. Rossi but just because he seems to have told about things he anticipated doing himself in a way to make us believe he has already done them could be just the way he is and the past only contributes for support of judgement from others that label all those inconsitent situations it appears that he has created for himself.

        Quite alot of energy has gone into this judgement of character in regards to Mr. Rossi, Defkalion, and others. I agree though that it doesn’t appear at this time that anything was really on the up and up and that this may be a scam but it doesn’t seem that should be the focus for us, but simply for us to go ahead with picking this LENR scenario apart.

        The problem is what is believable, NASA sounds really believable, Storms is a heavyweight in the LENR field, Celani seems straight forward and deep into development of a product. So their are many others feeling the way you do Thicket about this LENR ride of drama we have been on for over a year now. Something should be observable by now emerging in product form from someone.

    • Ransompw Reply

      August 28, 2012 at 9:04 pm

      Thicket:

      You received your legal ability from the same type of school Rossi got his engineering degree.

      • Sojourner Soo Reply

        August 28, 2012 at 9:29 pm

        Don’t insult Milan’s schools. They’re actually very good institutions.

        • Ransompw Reply

          August 28, 2012 at 9:35 pm

          I was really insulting Thickets legal training and also Kensington in the U.S. If anyone thought I was referring to Rossi’s education in Italy, I do apologize.

      • John Milstone Reply

        August 28, 2012 at 10:05 pm

        How typical of Ransompw to reply to a long, detailed, factual post with a simple insult.

        Exactly what I’ve come to expect from him.

        • Sojourner Soo Reply

          August 28, 2012 at 10:09 pm

          It deserved an insult, Newman.

          • JNewman

            August 28, 2012 at 10:17 pm

            You really need to look into this aphasia of yours. You can’t seem to keep track of who you are talking to.

          • John Milstone

            August 28, 2012 at 10:30 pm

            It deserved an insult, Newman.

            Says the “woman” who is complaining about how the “other side” is mean and insulting.

          • Sojourner Soo

            August 28, 2012 at 10:43 pm

            Mea Culpa, Newman. I did say I confuse you and Milstone. You both write exactly alike, that’s why. Snarky.

          • Methusela

            August 28, 2012 at 11:15 pm

            LOL @ John or Al, or whomever used to be maryyugo.

    • daniel maris Reply

      August 29, 2012 at 9:25 am

      I agree with what you say about proof – it’s a balance of evidence. I simply don’t think the balance has tipped on Rossi yet. How can it when you have respected professors like Focardi, Stremmenos and Levi backing him? If they were to come out with statements accusing him of scamming, then I would certainly say the evidence was tipping the other way.

      There is no evidence that the Petroldragon process was “bogus”. I note you rightly don’t state that his thermoelectric device was bogus – how could you when the US Armed Forces who saw this close up made no such accusation.

      There is certainly evidence that Rossi has proved to fall short of claims in the past. But equally we have Focardi – who is working in the same field – backing up his claim.

      • John Milstone Reply

        August 29, 2012 at 10:42 am

        How can it when you have respected professors like Focardi, Stremmenos and Levi backing him?

        I doubt they are backing Rossi these days. Their “support’ was conditional and based on proper independent testing, which never occurred.

        Note that none of them, not even Focardi, have lifted a finger to support Rossi since he moved from “demo” mode to “commercialization” mode.

        There is no evidence that the Petroldragon process was “bogus”.

        Yes, there was. Testimony in one of his trials made it clear that he never converted any waste into fuel.

        I note you rightly don’t state that his thermoelectric device was bogus – how could you when the US Armed Forces who saw this close up made no such accusation.

        When Rossi claimed his TE gadget could product 1000 Watts, but it only produced 1 Watt, that is clearly bogus. Since the author of the DOD report were responsible for giving Rossi money, they certainly weren’t going to make themselves look bad (and possibly be criminally liable) for the money given to Rossi based on fraudulent claims.

      • Ivy Matt Reply

        August 29, 2012 at 12:58 pm

        I agree with what you say about proof – it’s a balance of evidence. I simply don’t think the balance has tipped on Rossi yet.

        You mean it’s never gone over 50%? I’d agree, although there was a time last summer when, even though I had serious doubts, I half-expected he’d have something to show for the October demonstration. Since then it’s been straight downhill.

  27. Frank Reply

    August 28, 2012 at 7:53 pm

    Physics and thermodynamics – Rossi style:
    http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=695&cpage=4#comment-309610
    Rossi is saying that the thermal conductivity of the hot-cat ‘cylinder’ doesn’t matter, because after some time the system is in equilibrium… ???!

    Just imagine you would use a perfect insulator (“starlite” :-) ; zero thermal conductivity) as material for the hot-cat cylinder, then you don’t get any heat flux from the ‘core’ to the outside, and the ‘hot-cat’ would stay always perfect cold outside instead of heating your room or water.
    And of course, a perfect insulated core would only need energy to heat up once, but no further energy to stay hot.
    The better the heat conductivity, the more heat flux from the core to the outer wall, and hence the more “powerful” the device (when core temperature is maintained)

    Is Rossi’s understanding of a ‘hot-cat’ just a well insulated tube furnace?

    • Frank Reply

      August 29, 2012 at 8:59 am

      Rossi’s understanding of thermodynamics obviously puzzled other ones too. ;-)
      So he ‘”clarified” with a new post on JONP

      Andrea Rossi
      August 28th, 2012 at 5:52 PM
      Dear Jam:
      When the medium is at the equilibrium temperature, it gives all the heat it gets. Like a sponge, when it is full, no more water can be retained. Of course the system has to be well insulated, so that the heat goes where you need it. At the beginning of the process the more conductive wall will transfer more heat, but when the system is in equilibrium, so much energy you give, so much energy you get ( 1st principle of thermodynamic). Insulation is paramount,to be sure the heat goes where you want it to go.
      Warm Regards,
      A.R.

      He says:”Insulation is paramount, to be sure the heat goes where you want it to go.”
      Right, but if that means that the ‘leaked’ photo shows a well insulated tube furnace, then all the previous speculation about the heating power of the hot cat (calculation based on the area of the ‘hot tube’) are void.
      If the heat flux from the ‘core’ to the surface is only a small spot (the bright light spot in the picture), then the ‘hot-cat’ is just a similar tube furnace like this ‘home made’ one shown here again (2 kW el. power):
      http://www.versuchschemie.de/ptopic,168531.html

  28. Al Potenza Reply

    August 28, 2012 at 8:29 pm

    Follow up on Frank’s post above:

    “Andrea Rossi
    August 28th, 2012 at 11:16 AM
    Dear Joseph Fine:
    1- indipendently
    2- yes
    3- 4: we go 24/7, so the thermal conductivity does not matter, after some time the system is in equilibrium indipendently from the thermal conductivity: e.g., if you put a glass bottle of water and a plastic bottle of water in a frigid, after few minutes you will have water colder in the glass bottle respect the plastic bottle, because the thermal conductivity of glass is higher than of plastic; but after 3 hours the temperature will be the same, because an equilibrium is anyway reached after due time. Therefore in our case thermal conductivity is not an issue.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.”

    -
    Bad analogy. If, as Rossi claims, you have a source of nuclear fusion heat inside an insulated container (poor thermal conductivity), what will stop the container from heating up to higher and higher temperatures until it melts or explodes? The heat can’t conduct or convect or radiate away so where can it can go except to increase the temperature of the contents of the device?

    So either Rossi has no command of even the most basic elementary heat transfer physics or he is saying there there is no nuclear fusion reaction going on in his hot cat. I guess he gets to choose which it is. I vote for both being true. Rossi is an ignoramus and he has no reaction.

    • Methusela Reply

      August 28, 2012 at 11:34 pm

      As one of my dear old relatives used to say:

      “There’s a difference between scratching your arse – and tearing yourself to pieces”.

      In this case meaning: don’t be such a Dumbass George.

      Picking the most extreme anti-example doesn’t prove your 130 words of dross.

  29. H. Hansson Reply

    August 28, 2012 at 8:33 pm

    The core question is not what University. But whom made the certification tests and what government agency issuing the approval documents (in Europe that means that the approval valid in all + 25 EU/countries and territories).

    Mr. Rossi indicated that all these tests have been made. These documents are already in the public domain (if filed).

    I posted a question on Rossi’s website but my posting was deleted.

  30. dsm Reply

    August 28, 2012 at 10:53 pm

    Hmmmmm.
    .
    Now that 24 hrs have passed, some of the dust has settled. Rossi appears to have many of his diehard believers back on side despite the glaring oddity of the claimed ‘validation’ not occurring until after his most important agent conference.
    .
    The lightning conductor (hints of Unibol validation) appear to have worked. Maybe this magician really can conduct lightning :)
    .
    Frank got it right yesterday. Intense religious conviction is rarely swayed by reality. Many Hindus know for a fact that statues of Ganesh really do drink milk. Jim Jones followers went with him to paradise. Many Rossi followers know for a fact he is leading them to the promised land. Why let little things like genuine validation get in the way, surely certification is good enough :)
    .
    DSM

    • Sojourner Soo Reply

      August 28, 2012 at 11:01 pm

      Certification, assuming that’s true, isn’t good enough for you? Doesn’t certification imply validation, by the way?

      • dsm Reply

        August 28, 2012 at 11:21 pm

        Noooo Soooo :)
        .
        Certification says the device won’t kill or maim & meets safety use requirements & varies by country & by state. There may be some places that also insist the device delivers what it claims (i.e. max xyz heat out). Testing agents or local authorities may do certification. In summary certification is a safety issue.
        .
        Validation says it does what it is claimed to do (Multi KW LENR device). Validation in this case is a scientific acceptance the device is what the designer claims it to be. In summary validation is an issue of proof it is what it is claimed to be.
        .
        Rossi has failed to ever get that all important validation & therein lies half the warfare that goes on here.
        .
        Some people will cite Essen & Kullander as having ‘validated’ the device which is absolutely not correct at all !. Essen still believes it is promising and that is enough for some people but Essen never did his own scientific validation he has & does rely heavily on hearsay feedback from others.
        .
        This Krivit article is a very fair summary of the Essen & Kullander involvement. Some will read it and take it as absolute proof Rossi ‘has what he claims’, others will point to the number of ‘if’s & ‘but’s used by these people in describing their belief that there is high levels of anomalous heat from an eCat.
        .
        http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2012/03/12/rossi-promoters-essen-kullander-still-believe/
        .
        Cheers
        .
        DSM

        • DvH Reply

          August 29, 2012 at 12:05 am

          certification of the blue container would fail because of the lousy operation manual.

      • dsm Reply

        August 28, 2012 at 11:32 pm

        This is an ecatnews story about the two professors & is a very good summary from last year.
        .
        http://ecatnews.com/?p=1416
        .
        DSM
        (Sojourner Soo – I see your name as a poster in the thread linked to above :) – So Soo you have Seen the story Several Times and yet ask if there is a diff between Certify & Validate ? :) )

      • DvH Reply

        August 28, 2012 at 11:34 pm

        ‘assuming that it is true’ – thats the point.
        we just have ‘rossi says’ – when we actually see something, then we can decide what it means. what kind of certification? done by whom? ‘rossi says’ == ‘tounge displaced air’.

      • dsm Reply

        August 28, 2012 at 11:50 pm

        I have highlighted this para written by Paul in the lead-in to the linked to eCatNews article & again a very important comment because it was pretty accurate …
        .
        “Both scientists are well aware that what they saw and measured does not constitute proof and neither can say with certainty that Rossi’s claims are true. They would be foolish to do so. Indeed both admit that they could not check everything and although they do not suspect fraud, they have to leave that door open as a small possibility.

        They published a travel report detailing the demo and results and expressing their belief that (assuming no fraud) the eCat was producing so much energy that it had to be nuclear in origin.”
        .
        ********************************
        .
        The issue I (dsm) am now raising is that I have seen no evidence that Essen or Kullander have themselves done any further scientific evaluation of an eCat but both still rely on hearsay reports (see Krivit story). Indeed Kullander had lined up with Rossi for Uppsala Uni to do a scientific validation but when it came time to ink the deal, guess who walked away from it ! – Rossi !.
        .
        DSM

        • Anapopei Reply

          August 29, 2012 at 8:37 am

          What do you mean by “hearsay reports”?

          Are you challenging that unpublished independent test (with written reports) exists at all? Are your challenging that Essén read such reports? Are you challenging that Essén has sufficient skills to determine if they are better than the tests/demos that we already know of?

          • Dsm

            August 29, 2012 at 10:38 am

            WTF?
            .1) go look up ‘hearsay’
            .
            2) what published reports do you speak of
            .
            3) what docs exist that say essen directly did a scientific evaluation of any eCat?
            .
            DSM

  31. Quax Reply

    August 29, 2012 at 3:23 am

    Sojourner Soo, not sure if you are still monitoring the old comment thread, so I am reposting this here, just something to consider:

    Soo, if your motivation for LENR is to shut down the tarsand industry I am not sure that this will necessarily pan out quickly.

    LENR (if it is real) is good at producing hot water. Getting high enough temps for good quality steam to run a turbine seems to be quite a challenge.

    At any rate, LENR products would first garner to heating applications and then power generation.

    LENR being real would certainly deflate the oil price quite a bit. But as the major input energy cost for tarsands is heat for hot water processing this may actually not shut-down the industry. The demand for oil will initially not decrease rapidly because you hardly use it to produce electricity anymore. Only the oil heating market will probably go away quickly. Gas consumption at the pump not so much. It may initially actually increase as the price comes down.

    On the other hand the natural gas market will collapse. LENR could substitute both major NG demand drivers, residential heating and power generation fairly quickly.

    (Disclaimer: I used to hold some oil sand stocks, but not anymore, and I think this industry should be tightly regulated to meet strict CO2 emission standards.)

    • dsm Reply

      August 29, 2012 at 3:32 am

      Quax
      It is worth adding to your comments the impact on the plastics industry that oil has. It isn’t just used for transport fuel. The demand for plastics AFAICT is growing & driving a lot of the demand.

      .DSM

      • Quax Reply

        August 29, 2012 at 4:31 am

        DSM, good point but I’d expect a lot of substitution of oil with NG once a significant price gap opens up. Here in North America if LENR was real the market would be just swamped with cheap NG. It’s already dirt cheap due to all the crazy fracking that is going on.

    • Sojourner Soo Reply

      August 29, 2012 at 11:43 am

      Quax: I thought of all that. I don’t think LENR can save the tarsands over the long run, however, just by reducing the energy input costs. I’ve little doubt that the producers will try. They’re probably the ones buying Rossi’s machines right now.

      That will work for a while, but the environmental costs will be very high. In addition, LENR makes synthetic oil from other sources possible: Countries won’t want dirty tarsands crap, when they can get other cleaner synthetic oils.

      As for regulating the tarsands, it isn’t going to happen anytime soon. Harper just gutted all of Canada’s environmental protection laws, in order to make development of the tarsands easier.

      It really is imperative for everyone to understand just how horrible the tarsands are.

      Throw in pipelines to the Pacific Coast over the Canadian Rockies, oil tankers plying the ecologically sensitive, but dangerous coastal waters, and most probably bitumen oil spills on the BC coast’s rainforests, which are impossible to clean up…It makes me shudder. Politicians and people in the tarsands oil industry are evil.

      • Jami Reply

        August 29, 2012 at 12:03 pm

        “Politicians and people in the tarsands oil industry are evil.”

        Yeah, whatever. And when they tell you what they do is necessary (until an alternative form of energy carrier can be exploited sufficiently) you start giving them the LENR talk, right? What an easy way out for you. You never have to wring out your brain for a working solution because you can always fall back on your pipe dream. And when confronted with the fact that, at least so far, it only exists as an artifact in an obscure branch of junk science, you can blame that on all those evil people, too. Very comfortable for you, surely, but not really leading to any results. Fortunately nobody seems to rely on you for those.

        • Sojourner Soo Reply

          August 29, 2012 at 3:59 pm

          Deleted by Admin.

          No swearing, So Soo.

          Paul

          • Sojourner Soo

            August 29, 2012 at 4:06 pm

            Aww. That’s no fun. He is a bitter little penis who probably can’t get it up anymore. It wasn’t even swearing, to be factual. I did, however, see somebody using actual swear words yesterday. You didn’t delete that comment, Paul. I think it’s just male sensitivity. Cover your nuts boys, Sojo’s here.

          • admin

            August 29, 2012 at 4:10 pm

            What’s the point of such an attack? Your arguments speak better without them and will stand or fall regardless.

            Paul

          • Jami

            August 29, 2012 at 6:13 pm

            Ok, I’m game. Let’s settle the penis thing the old fashioned way (you know – public bathroom, female witnesses and all that). As for the bitterness – your hate stuff sounds so George-Hantsian at times that you probably can no longer distinguish between your own twisted world-paranoia and conscious thought. But whatever it is you have – it really doesn’t come across especially cheerful.

          • Sojourner Soo

            August 29, 2012 at 7:28 pm

            What twisted hate stuff? Saying the tarsands is evil? Then watching you get your knickers in a knot? What? Are you, like Thicket, another tarsands employee? Or do you just happen to like destroying the planet? Or is it that you can’t stand the fact that I don’t give a flying fig about your LENR propaganda? And, what is so twistedly hateful about suggesting you are bitter and can’t get it up any more? After all, you write angry retorts to anything I might write here. My post on the tarsands and LENR did not warrant your reply. I responded in kind. Don’t like it? Then don’t beg for it. Tit for tat. It works.

            I’m impressed that you, at the very least, picked on the fact that I’m not “cheerful” about the tarsands. Why would I be? That monstrosity is killing people, literally. The only folk who are cheerful about the tarsands are the producers and pipeline owners making money, the Conservative Party politicians especially those from Alberta, those who are employed there, and those who live in Fort MacMurray, Alberta, many of whom are busily escaping the ugly reality when they aren’t working in the tarsands by doing drugs. Everybody else on the planet hates the place.

          • dsm

            August 29, 2012 at 11:08 pm

            Sweet Soujouner Soo – I’m in love with you :)
            .
            What emotion !, What intensity !, What passion !, and then there is that strong hint of simplicity :)
            .
            You do not need to buy an eCat, you are a biological one. My guess is COP better than 10. Do you ever notice any transmutations ?.
            .
            When & where can we meet ?. I’ve got the time, you’ve got the heat !
            .
            Hugz DSM :)

          • Quax

            August 30, 2012 at 3:30 am

            DSM, mind the ring on your finger :-)

          • dsm

            August 30, 2012 at 6:04 am

            Drat it Quax, why did you have to go mention that :( :( :(
            .
            DSM

        • Quax Reply

          August 30, 2012 at 3:31 am

          At least we should all be able to agree on the fact that politicians are evil :-)

      • Ivy Matt Reply

        August 29, 2012 at 2:24 pm

        Ms. Soo, I have a story for you. I think it’s also one of Rossi’s favorite stories:

        Once upon a time there was a dictator named Juan. He cared very much for his country, naturally, and wished to improve its situation. Unfortunately, his country was rather weak economically, and didn’t have a lot of modern industries. It was pretty small potatoes compared to that juggernaut, the United States of America.

        Fortunately, Juan’s country just happened to have a relatively large supply of Nazi scientists—maybe not as many as those who got scooped up by the US and the USSR, but still quite a few. One of those scientists, named Ronald, proposed to build a nuclear fusion reactor for Juan. Juan was ecstatic. With such a technology, heavy industry would flourish in his country, perhaps even surpassing the USA.

        Juan put Ronald to work, giving him as much funding as he asked for, and allowing him to work in seclusion on an island in a lake, far from the prying eyes of the jealous mainstream scientists who filled his country’s universities, and who were also often opposed to his own policies.

        Ronald made relatively quick progress, and within just a few years, announced his success to Juan. Juan enthusiastically announced to the press this achievement by his country’s scientists, and assured his own citizens that soon they would be able to buy nuclear energy for domestic use in bottles of one liter and half a liter. He also halted a plan to expand his country’s conventional electrical power generation, as it was obviously no longer necessary.

        Unfortunately for Juan, jealous mainstream scientists in other countries—and even his own country—demanded proof of Ronald’s claims. Juan eventually relented, and allowed some of his university scientists to visit Ronald’s lab. The scientists quickly debunked Ronald’s work, claiming that, among other things, fusion reactions were improbable at 4000 Kelvin, which is well below the ionization temperature of hydrogen.

        Due to these and other criticisms, Juan was persuaded to cancel Ronald’s project and close his lab. It was unfortunate too, because Juan’s country later had electricity shortages. If only Juan had kept Ronald’s project running a little bit longer, right?

        • Sojourner Soo Reply

          August 29, 2012 at 4:04 pm

          Ivy: I’m sorry, but physics is a relatively new science still in its infancy. If you think the physicists have all the answers to all of life’s mysteries, I really do feel pity for you and those who think like you do. I’m wondering if, perhaps, all of this closed-mindedness and this illogical belief that physics has plumbed the heights and depths of the universe and that there is nothing more for them to learn isn’t merely a reflection of the fact that your lives are coming to an end. You’re all old men, aren’t you? It shows.

          • Quax

            August 30, 2012 at 3:35 am

            Sojourner Soo, yes according to my survey data you are mostly hanging out with male geezers here.

            You are certainly a demographic aberration in this forum.

          • Ivy Matt

            August 30, 2012 at 2:32 pm

            One of the benefits of stories—or one of their drawbacks, depending on how you look at it—is that different people can take different things away from them. This is what I got out of it:

            He also halted a plan to expand his country’s conventional electrical power generation, as it was obviously no longer necessary.

            And then:

            Juan’s country later had electricity shortages

            Oops.

            I don’t doubt that Juan had his country’s best interests at heart, but clearly he made a hash of things in this particular case. And, no matter what argument you take with respect to whether Ronald had anything or not, it’s clear that Juan’s ignorance of science was to his detriment, either way.

  32. RonB Reply

    August 29, 2012 at 5:49 am

    What if it were as simple as molecular hydrogen penetrating the fissures in nickel and then an annealing process (starting at the outside) will seal the hydrogen inside and as the temperature increases the hydrogen becomes much more active under the increased pressure and the result is anomalous heat. This would explain the upper limits to the e-cat. I’d be hard pressed to understand why there’s some x/gamma rays present.

    • dsm Reply

      August 29, 2012 at 6:14 am

      RonB
      .
      As I understand it (very amateur), gamma radiation is expected if there has been a change in the atoms of Ni & H if there is fusion.
      .
      Rossi claims his Ni becomes Cu. In my little knowledge of nuc, there should be some gamma radiation if there is a change downward in energy state of atoms. I think one example is if unstable atoms of Cu are formed, then there may be beta decay radiation until the Cu isotope stabilizes ?.
      .
      QUOTE:Gamma-rays
      A nucleus which is in an excited state may emit one or more photons (packets of electromagnetic radiation) of discrete energies. The emission of gamma rays does not alter the number of protons or neutrons in the nucleus but instead has the effect of moving the nucleus from a higher to a lower energy state (unstable to stable). Gamma ray emission frequently follows beta decay, alpha decay, and other nuclear decay processes.

      .
      Here is an interesting story (a bit unrelated but interesting) about gamma rays perhaps triggering lightning.
      .
      http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2006/05/03/1629448.htm

      • Dale G. Basgall Reply

        August 29, 2012 at 9:20 am

        dsm you came up with a great combination with the lightning, new zap-cat comes with a wire, and a kite with a key just for old times sake. In a lightning storm the zap-cat uses a lightning rod that hooks up to an old tv antenna that has been retired but when lightning strikes the efficiency of the zap-cat is way higher than the other models tested.

        • Dsm Reply

          August 29, 2012 at 9:35 am

          Great
          I like it :)
          Lightning powered ZAPcat.
          .
          Good one Dale
          .
          Dsm

  33. Frank Zamburro Reply

    August 30, 2012 at 4:13 am

    Hi,

    I see the list of sceptics increases by the day, very interesting social phenomena, when it all boils down we are a flock of sheep, with the corresponding brain capacity.
    The fact that the university of Bologna and it’s professors
    co-operated with Mr. Rossi should have been enough to put a stop to all this kindergarten behaviour. Where were all you geniuses when, our financial fraternity, banks and governments
    played us all for idiots? did not hear a squeak.
    I am working with Rossi’s associates, and continuing to do so,
    I needed to get in touch, a member of the researching professors, gave me his home phone contacts, and had nothing but praise and admiration for his endeavour and courage.
    I was given an invitation to the last high temperature testing and working eCat, this now has the necessary bar capability for production of boundless energy, I could not
    attend because of personal reasons, I have an open invitation to the next test. I will not be reporting on the test because I have seen all the misrepresentation and distortion

  34. Frank Zamburro Reply

    August 31, 2012 at 5:41 am

    Hi,

    For the attention of Thicket.

    Please supply your real Name if you have any guts don’t hide behind your stage name, I say stage because the info you supply
    is a complete load of crap.

    A word of caution you could be facing a trip to court, to answer
    Charges of Malicious damage and defamation.

    Frank

  35. dsm Reply

    August 29, 2012 at 1:11 am

    What ‘DEMO’ please do tell ?
    .
    Roosi stated otherwise !. Was he lying ?.
    .
    DSM

  36. dsm Reply

    August 29, 2012 at 9:57 am

    knock knock anyone home ?
    .
    Hmmm no answer. Perhaps if I speak in dead latin the message will get through.
    .
    zimmer281 Horribile dictu – caput tuum velle tuo e culo. Te modus vivendi. Si ?.
    Et
    zimmer281 <= damnant quod non intellegunt.
    .
    zimmer281 = Vox clamantis in deserto.
    .
    DSM

  37. Ivy Matt Reply

    August 29, 2012 at 1:17 pm

    ???

    I don’t see how reporting on the University of Bologna’s statements constitutes breaking down. I’m sure he’ll also report on Rossi’s September DISTRIBUTORS CONFERENCE, and give his own opinion on it, which you may or may not find pleasing.

    On the other hand, I do see the merit in the argument that if everyone decides to believe unconditionally in Rossi, he will actually be able to produce a demo that everyone will find convincing. ;-)

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