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National Instruments And Cold Fusion – Update

August 8, 2012

Update at end [new video]

Often the centre of LENR speculation, National Instruments has been promoted as Rossi’s best buddy all the way through to an indifferent company simply trying to sell their wares to anyone who wants them. A new video has just surfaced from NI Week, where cofounder, President and CEO, James Truchard indirectly puts some meat on the bone.

Talking of 21st Century systems design and the evolution of NI tools to facilitate it, he mentions a couple of examples in passing but, in a 17 minute talk he spends a full three of them at the end on only one – giving the apparent impression of a history of instrumentation design that has been leading up to this single important work – cold fusion. I have little doubt that this was not the intention – indeed, he importantly says that they do not judge, they only measure – implying the very thing many hardened sceptics try to point out. It would take a determined person however, not to land somewhere in between. It seems certain to me that NI (perhaps through Truchard’s personal interest) is keenly involved with cold fusion and has used this platform to publicly associate the company name alongside it. At very least, he must see a business opportunity here and perhaps this reflects our suspicion that many researchers are beginning to take the subject seriously enough to spend hard cash on the instrumentation. My bet is that it goes some way beyond this but that is a mere hunch.

I don’t think we can draw any conclusions regarding the eCat or Hyperion but cold fusion is definitely an important subject for National Instruments.

The following is a rough transcript of the relevant part (from 15 minutes on). Any errors are mine:

If we look at one area where National Instruments has been involved since 1989 – is cold fusion. This is a very controversial subject… and in 1989 we were looking for… eh..working with some of these Edisons. We offered everyone who wanted to prove that it existed a copy of Labview and everyone who wanted to prove it didn’t exist, a copy of Labview… And as far as I know, only the ones who wanted to prove it actually took us up on the offer. So, we actually did an App Note on how to do cold fusion with Labview so, we’ve been there all along in this very controversial area.

Most recently…, a lot has happened since then. Grimshaw did his masters thesis at LBJ’s School of Public Policy – viewed as fairly neutral – saying that he had found 184 examples of positive experiments in this area. And he recommended that public policy support research in this area. We have also been working with Labview over the years… many of these Edisons in their basements and their closets… their laboratories at the back of their yards to continue this research. We actually have a demonstration of Dr Celani’s work from the Italian Nuclear Institute on the showroom floor. I’m actually recommending a different name.. that one has been tarnished over the years. Maybe we should call it quantum reactor. That’s the name often used in science fiction movies.

So, on the showroom floor, we have a demo and we have a panel of some of the select researchers that have been working in this area for the last 20 years including Professor Hagelstein from MIT who has worked on some 282 theories on how it works. His latest one he thinks is his best one, so check that out. In the experimental process in this case, it has kind of been stuck at the first step of observation. So our goal in life is to make sure these Edisons can move on through the process, get the measurements they need, have the capability they need in a graphical system design to solve these really, really important problems as we go forward.

So, it is about graphical system design where the inventor can choose whatever subject… We say…we don’t judge, we measure. The user has a lot of choice in what they do in the graphic system design and ofr both design and test, doing it ever faster and more ably as we see from the many, many examples…




[With thanks to Akira Shirakawa on Vortex]



Dr. Rob Duncan [U of Missouri] and Greg Morrow [NI] discuss anomalous heat effect, revealing some of the work NI has been doing. Once again, we get the impression of a company committed to working in this space because they believe it important.


Posted by on August 8, 2012. Filed under Business,Tests & Demos,Videos. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

134 Responses to National Instruments And Cold Fusion – Update

  1. Ivan Mohorovicic

    August 8, 2012 at 4:15 pm

    A photo from PESN:

    From left to right:

    Alexandros Xanthoulis (Defkalion GT founder)
    Frank Gordon (SPAWAR)
    Andrea Aparo (Ansaldo Energia spa)
    Peter Hagelstein (MIT)
    James Truchard (National Instruments co-founder and CEO)
    Michael McKubre (SRI International)
    Robert Godes (Brillouin Energy Corp.)
    Stefano Concezzi (National Instruments – Big Science director)

    Who is the last person on the right?

    • Ivan Mohorovicic

      August 8, 2012 at 4:22 pm

      Ok, I think he’s Robert Duncan, vice chancellor for research at the University of Missouri.

      • AB

        August 8, 2012 at 4:29 pm

        I also think it’s Robert Duncan.

  2. Tiki

    August 8, 2012 at 4:23 pm

    I think that Professor Hagelsteins’ work deserves more funding from the hot fusion research that is being funded at MIT and I’m glad that National Instruments had one of his demonstrations of a “quantum reactor” on display.

    Come to think of it, Professor Hagelstein is only a three hour drive from where I reside in New York. I would love to see his demonstration in person and might try to arrange that if it is still on public display.

    Anyway, I read this paper by him and I found it very informative! Much more informative than anything that Andrea Rossi has provided thus far. I encourage anyone with time enough and a well rounded vocabulary to go ahead and read the paper found here:

    • Nicholas Payne

      August 8, 2012 at 6:09 pm

      I just emailed his secretary Ms Davco who says the NANOR is out being tested elsewhere, but he hopes to have a better demo of it at MIT later this year.

  3. Mahron - A4 B2

    August 8, 2012 at 4:46 pm

    Now this is encouraging news !

  4. Tiki

    August 8, 2012 at 4:50 pm

    Sorry to post twice, but below is a link to an interview with the Professor from MIT. I think he is an honest man, and I do believe his estimate of three to five years before seeing the technology hit the market, if and only if it had real federal funding, is an honest and plausible estimate.

    Here is the like to the interview:

    • jfab

      August 8, 2012 at 5:30 pm

      The 3-5 years estimate is not from prof. Hagelstein, but from the journalist. Also, it’s a 2010 article, so 3 years would be next year. The technology isn’t ready for launch in 2013, it requires many more years unfortunately. Every group who demostrated seriousness in their research (I’m not talking about Rossi, he’s a scam) have only very low CoE. Something new needs to be done, a new understanding that would radicaly change the technology, instead of repeating the same low CoE experiments over and over.

      • Tiki

        August 8, 2012 at 6:16 pm

        The three to five year estimate is indeed from Professor Hagelsein in reply to the journalists question when the journalist asked about how long before the technology would be ready. Professor Hagelstein said, in reply, maybe never, if funding wasn’t available. However, he then went to say, if it (research) got national funding, he would guess three to five years before something was introduced, something simple like a furnace.

        There has not been any national funding in this field.

        • jfab

          August 8, 2012 at 10:38 pm

          You’re right, he said 3-5 years if national funding. If not, “It’s not going to happen anytime soon, most likely”.

    • spacegoat

      August 9, 2012 at 5:55 am

      Good to see you mention Hagelsteins’ work. A key aspect of this rare gentle man is his humility. Let’s wait and see what he has to say at ICCF17.

      How wonderful to have a chain of a few posts not about RossiSays or obvious statements of about scientific method.

  5. General Zaroff

    August 8, 2012 at 5:14 pm

    I have a question. Suppose Celani’s demo is flawless and we are truly at the dawn of a new energy revolution. Then there is very little time before the mainstream grabs ahold of it and cold fusion/lenr becomes accepted. Going mainstream often ruins the experience for people, like when a micro-brewery goes global. So, LENR fans, where will you flock to in the new era? Are there other scientific injustices that you hope to set right?

    • jfab

      August 8, 2012 at 5:35 pm

      “Suppose Celani’s demo is flawless and we are truly at the dawn of a new energy revolution”

      Both are not necessarily related. Celani CoE is still low. We don’t know yet if LENR can produre high-enough CoE. Hopefully it can, but we still need to understand how to do it, it may require many years of research, advanced nanotechnology, etc.

      • Alain

        August 8, 2012 at 5:53 pm

        COP is just a problem of thermal insulation, since he proved (see the paper) that heat alone activate anomalous heat. It can be infinite with good control and good insulation.

        Even with 1watt sintead of 14W, Celani device is a revolution. The surfacic power that it produce, even divided by 10, is biger than the claimed surfacic power of device using micrometric powder (I computed 10kW/g of powder, based on celani data)

        THIS IS HUGE

        if COP >1.01, and heat is enough to trigger LENR, then nanometric powder in an insulated reactor will have COP as big as desired.

        do you think that Celani have made an error of 14W over 48W in his measures, even if they are not in perfect conditions ?

        we have to be realist, it works, and industrial application is clearly possible with engineering work.

        • Al Potenza

          August 8, 2012 at 6:06 pm

          If Celani’s description is accurate, the easiest thing to do to increase output is to use multiple “wires” inside the unit. Obviously, ten wires will have ten times the output.

          Do I think this (Celani’s claims) could be a measurement error? Yes, unfortunately, it could. For reasons I named in the previous message string.

          BTW, I notice that there should be a session involving Defkalion executives at the NI convention in Austin, TX later today. I hope someone will ask them the difficult questions about their claims from last year, the supposed tests they said they did, and why nobody has confirmed that they happened and given the result.

          Reports from the meeting should be interesting if we get any to look at.

          • Bettingman

            August 8, 2012 at 6:35 pm

            I also hope that DGT will get some though question to answer. Peter Gluck thinks they are planning to share a lot of interesting information. We will see…

      • Bettingman

        August 8, 2012 at 6:36 pm


        what does “CoE” mean?

        • Al Potenza

          August 8, 2012 at 6:40 pm

          COE: usually means the law of conservation of energy.

          COP: usually means the coefficient of performance, a measure properly applied to air conditioning heat pumps and similar machinery. It is misapplied in LENR reports to mean the ratio of output energy to input energy. For example, Rossi claims his ecats put out six times more energy than he puts into heating them. If true, which is very doubtful, that would be a COP of 6. This is not accepted use of “COP” in usual science and technology but most people accept it in LENR because it’s convenient.

          I suspect “jfab” meant COP.

          • daniel maris

            August 8, 2012 at 6:54 pm

            Al –

            You are the equivalent of Standard and Poor – downgrading the rebuttal index rating of Rossi’s work to “very doubtful” where once it was “physically impossible”.

          • Al Potenza

            August 8, 2012 at 7:12 pm

            I never said “physically impossible”. I keep asking for a decent level of proof and never getting it. That’s all!

          • Robert Munson

            August 8, 2012 at 8:22 pm

            Al quit backpedaling!! You’ve been the number one critic followed by your side kicks. Do we need to go back and show u all your many posts of if it exists comments. Just grow some Balls and admit to u being wrong. Repeat after me: it does exist and it will be powerful enough to be commercially viable in the future!! That wasn’t so bad was it? 😉

        • jfab

          August 8, 2012 at 10:41 pm

          Sorry I should have said COP… I was thinking “Coefficient of Efficiency”

      • Jed Rothwell

        August 8, 2012 at 9:37 pm

        You wrote: “Celani CoE is still low. We don’t know yet if LENR can produre high-enough CoE.”

        Yes, we do know this. Cold fusion has often been demonstrated with no input power, sometime for hours or days. This was first done in 1992. It is called “heat after death” with the electrochemical systems.

        Cold fusion has also been demonstrated at high temperatures and high power density. Energy density roughly 10,000 times greater than any possible chemical reaction have been demonstrated. No doubt the upper limit is millions of times beyond chemistry.

        If the reaction can be controlled there is no doubt it can be commercialized, and it will be far cheaper and better than any other source.

        For more on this subject I suggest you read the literature at (shortcut:

        • jfab

          August 8, 2012 at 10:47 pm

          Low energy density on long period have been shown.

          High energy density on very short period (“bursts”) have been shown.

          High energy density on long period have NOT been shown.

          • Jed Rothwell

            August 9, 2012 at 12:56 am

            That is incorrect. Fleischmann and Pons showed cells that produced 100 W or more at the power density of a fission reactor core, at boiling temperatures, lasting up to 3 months continuously. See Roulette and Roulette.

            Many others have demonstrated high power density in continuous reactions lasting for weeks.

    • Mahron - A4 B2

      August 8, 2012 at 5:53 pm

      Next stop, warp drive.

    • Bettingman

      August 8, 2012 at 6:33 pm

      artificial meat?

    • daniel maris

      August 8, 2012 at 7:00 pm


      Sage comments indeed.

      It’s a scientific mystery how we Bluebirds know where to congregate on our long migrations. Who knows what forces are at work? Magnetism some say…For sure, we will not linger once the New York Times is producing four page pull out sections on New Era Energy. But where will fly to? No one knows…

    • GreenWin

      August 8, 2012 at 9:00 pm

      Just an excellent question Generale! But you have your timeline wrong. I am projecting a full 6 YEARS of scintillating IGZ programming, i.e. scientific correction. It will take at least that long to prosecute the 500 most egregious LENR deniers!

      See, if we throw three perps per episode into the shark infested waters x 22 episodes x 6 years (to syndication) – that’s only 396 perps prosecuted. That’s 104 that could go Scott Free.

      Apparently the news from NI Week is so exciting former uber-critic and senior denier John R Huizenga has been spotted in Austin:

  6. Harry Perini

    August 8, 2012 at 5:30 pm

    Dr. James Truchard, does not mention Andrea Rossi ?

    • General Zaroff

      August 8, 2012 at 5:55 pm

      Based on his ever-expanding grandiose claims, in the near future you should expect that the majority of doctors mentioning Rossi will be psychiatrists.

      • spacegoat

        August 9, 2012 at 6:16 am


  7. Robert Munson

    August 8, 2012 at 6:15 pm

    The tribe here will have to find a new sacrificial lamb..
    Hhhhmmmm… Papp engine? BLP? Stoern? Who’s the next contestant?

  8. daniel maris

    August 8, 2012 at 6:20 pm


    Dear Jake Di Vita:
    There is a limit due to the fact that nickel melts at 1455 Celsius degrees, but we will have to heat water, so the actual limit will be 600 Celsius when we will go to make steam. At 600 Celsius the efficiency will be around 50%. Wre are working on this, now, with our Friends of Swedish Siemens Friends. When we told them we reached 1 200 Celsius they became lyric.
    Warm Regards,

    • Al Potenza

      August 8, 2012 at 6:42 pm

      I bet “lyric” Siemens will say they never worked with Rossi.

      • daniel maris

        August 8, 2012 at 6:51 pm

        Why don’t you ask them?

        • Al Potenza

          August 8, 2012 at 7:14 pm

          I don’t ask them because it’s a huge organization and I have no idea who to ask or how. I’m sure that’s why Rossi chose them. It’s difficult to get an official contradiction. I bet if Siemens is ever involved in an LENR meeting, they will deny having *ever* worked with Rossi except maybe for sending him brochures about their steam turbine products just like they send to anyone who says he has an application for them.

          • daniel maris

            August 8, 2012 at 10:57 pm

            Well we shall see – I am sure someone with more time on their hands will seek a quote (and Rossi must know that).

  9. Jami

    August 8, 2012 at 6:40 pm

    Friends of Swedish Siemens Friends??

    • Anapopei

      August 8, 2012 at 8:02 pm

      To be honest, not Rossi’s best Fame to Claim.

    • John Milstone

      August 8, 2012 at 8:19 pm

      Yes, that’s referring to Sven Siemens, an old drinking buddy of Rossi’s.

      So, when Rossi claims to be working with “Siemens” he’s not lying, he’s just referring to a different Siemens than we all would have guessed.

      • Robert Munson

        August 8, 2012 at 8:24 pm


        Fix your gas stove it must be leaking

  10. daniel maris

    August 8, 2012 at 6:50 pm


    • Frank

      August 8, 2012 at 8:41 pm

      Why do you think ‘sceptics’ will choke on such an article?

      From that link:
      And now, it seems, some relatively interesting players seem at least willing to test the waters to finally determine whether cold fusion is real and can be modeled and tested properly with real equipment…or whether it’s just a myth after all.

      Isn’t that exactly what ‘sceptics’ want and request? – Serious work, validation of the claims and 3rd party tests, but no cryptic “Rossi says”, like the one you spread here in one of previous posting (in a childish manner – you have even adopt Rossi’s upper-case style).

      • daniel maris

        August 8, 2012 at 9:43 pm

        …the fact that it’s in the mainstream media is the choker…

        • JNewman

          August 8, 2012 at 10:14 pm

          Daniel, I guess you just won’t ever get it. Nobody here is against LENR or hoping it isn’t real. We are against bullshitting about it. Clearly for many, that suffices. For some of us, we just want serious validation. When that happens, we will be pushing for further progress. As for you, should that day ever come, you are more than welcome to do your “I told you so” dance. I don’t think anybody really cares.

          • daniel maris

            August 8, 2012 at 11:11 pm

            I am not really interested in the I told you so scenario although it is always nicer to be right than wrong. However, there are some serious issues here:

            1. To what extent has research into LENR been impeded by a hostile knowledge environment?

            2. To what extent has that hostile environment been deliberately created by vested interests?

            3. Could LENR technology have been brought to market 20 years ago if there had been a less hostile environment?

            Of course, we are a little way off those questions having to be answered – as I would agree we still have not got absolutely definitive proof that LENR is a phenomenon that can be harnessed as an energy generator. But eventually those questions will have to be answered and I think it is in that context that I would still query your approach which I would call irrationally negative.

          • JNewman

            August 8, 2012 at 11:33 pm

            I am not sure that I should be described as having “an approach”. I am just a random individual reacting to information being presented to me. Some people claim that there is convincing evidence for LENR. I am not convinced. How this has any effect on the world at large escapes me. My so-called negativism has no more consequence than your straw-grasping optimism. We are both just airing our personal views. As for theories about global conspiracies to suppress LENR, I have nothing to say about the subject. You are on your own with that sort of stuff.

        • jfab

          August 8, 2012 at 10:59 pm

          Mainstream media gives you entertainment, that’s fine but POINTLESS. Mainstream media talks about anything, UFOs, Sasquatch, whatever as long as it sells. They don’t know anything more than we do. Regarding LENR they just read the same blogs we read, etc.
          What would be interesting is NEW INFO in a peer-reviewed journal, or at least in a serious science magazine like Scientific American or New Scientist.

          • GreenWin

            August 8, 2012 at 11:33 pm

            Heh heh, when this is all through SA and especially “New Scientist” will be good for wrapping fish – even then the fish will object.

  11. Robert Munson

    August 8, 2012 at 8:12 pm

    General, never mind that Rossi guy he will be left in the dust by people like celani
    And others. U guys want to focus on Rossi but ignore what celani is showing u. After all a general is a leader of men. Time to lose the training wheels

    • Al Potenza

      August 8, 2012 at 8:36 pm

      Actually, Robert, I doubt you really appreciate it but, so far, Celani is the only one dealing with LENR who is, in any way, credible. He has taken the trouble to run a dummy wire in his reactor to check the accuracy of the measurements when there is no energy output. He says he also duplicated the results in a conventional calorimeter using standard methods. Not only that, but he has run a long period of time. These things go a long ways towards mitigating skeptical objections. He still has quite a ways to go before it’s clear whether or not he has accomplished LENR.

      As to your silly rant above, I am not “back pedalling” and I am not wrong. I calls them the way I sees them. Rossi still looks like a criminal fraud unless he’s simply insane. Defkalion we’ll know more about soon after their presentations but what they’ve said and done so far doesn’t speak well about their honesty. I stand by those statements. There is plenty of evidence for them.

      I hope Celani comes through with convincing irrefutable data and then gets independent confirmation. He seems headed that way but he’s not there yet. Not by a long ways.

      • RonB

        August 8, 2012 at 9:02 pm

        Don’t you guys see the significance of the gamma ray emissions? This stuff about calorimeters seems so innocuous in comparison to that.

        It seems if there are gamma rays present then there is indeed a nuclear reaction going on and LENR has been proven. Right???

        • Jami

          August 8, 2012 at 9:17 pm


          • GreenWin

            August 8, 2012 at 9:21 pm

            Because they shut down their web site:)

          • RonB

            August 8, 2012 at 9:41 pm

            lol Jami, you are something else.

            You are right, there’s an off chance that at the exact moment that Celani’s wire reached 100C there was a near by thunderstorm that caused a flash of gamma rays.

      • Jami

        August 8, 2012 at 9:15 pm

        Al, when you speak about Celani, are you refering to the “Cu-Ni-Mn alloy wires, with improved sub- micrometric surfaces, used as LENR device by new transparent, dissipation-type, calorimeter” paper?

        Because if you do, I don’t see him heading the right way at all. My daughter’s diary is probably less anecdotal than that. It may pass as an epilog for more serious stuff to follow – but as a paper in its own right, it is pretty useless. I was stunned when I turned the last page and the thing just ended in the middle of wild-assed speculation and “data” in the form of “We reloaded again the wire and get behaviour of R/Ro decreasing and anomalous heat not too different from the first cycle.” or “We supposed that some H2 was stored some-where in the lattice.”

    • General Zaroff

      August 8, 2012 at 10:55 pm

      Mr. Munson,

      If you think I am the man to lead the skeptics over to your way of thinking, then you are sadly mistaken. I am a great leader, but we skeptics are all such independent thinkers that the chain of command does not sit well with us. That is why I will wait independently for John Milestone and Al Potenza to figure out what Celani did wrong before I plan my next move.

      • Robert Munson

        August 8, 2012 at 11:38 pm

        Just the answer we were looking for. Leave it up to the crack(pot) team of sceptic experts. U better find some more imaginative thinkers. You will be busted down to a buck private at this rate!

      • Robert Munson

        August 9, 2012 at 12:11 am


        You are a worthy opponent. And a good children’s book author

  12. Robert Munson

    August 8, 2012 at 8:50 pm


    I took the liberty of making a list of possible ways celani could fudge the measurements.
    1) a hidden power cord drilled through 2ft of concrete to a receptacle
    2)a line of sight satellite hovering over Austin. focus beam energy to the machine
    3)NI has no idea how to measure anything.
    4)hidden solar panels
    5)small battery in machine
    6) fresh lab dung in machine( thank u general)
    If I’ve missed anything please add to my post!

    • AB

      August 8, 2012 at 8:56 pm

      7) Celani took hypnosis lessons from Rossi.
      8) NI is in on the scam.

    • Al Potenza

      August 8, 2012 at 9:01 pm

      With friends like you, LENR needs no enemies.

      • Robert Munson

        August 9, 2012 at 12:04 am

        Al I got tired of your third party tests, calorimetery, and your best seller on how to debunk every LENR test no matter how thorough shtick. Come up with some other angle 2 years of the same s*** is enough!!!!!!!

        • John Milstone

          August 9, 2012 at 12:18 am

          Come up with some other angle 2 years of the same s*** is enough!!!!!!!

          The exact same thing can be said about Rossi and DGE.

          • dsm

            August 9, 2012 at 12:59 am


            For Rossi it is 5 years – for Defkalion 18 months.



          • Robert Munson

            August 9, 2012 at 1:48 am

            We’re not talking about Rossi anymore. That ship has sailed with all the temp gains. It’s too much. But John and Al were talking about celani it’s not perfect but you must admit he’s heading the right direction especially if he continues being on the up and up.
            Al did he say he wasn’t going to test and release to your satisfactions is data. And John your extreme skepticism doesn’t warrant an answer because u have Rossi syndrome.


          • John Milstone

            August 9, 2012 at 5:22 am

            We’re not talking about Rossi anymore. That ship has sailed with all the temp gains. It’s too much.

            It’s nice to see that Robert Munson is finally realizing what the skeptics have been saying all along: Rossi is a fraud.

          • Frank

            August 9, 2012 at 7:41 am

            We’re not talking about Rossi anymore

            This site is (still) called and not
            That’s why – of course – the discussions and statements here are about Rossi’s claims and the ‘commercialisation endeavors’ of the e-cat.

            My position to ‘anomalous heat effects’ is a very different one than my position to Rossi.

          • dsm

            August 9, 2012 at 9:13 am

            I would say Rossi is an out of control eccentric. If fraud is defined as knowing he has nothing, I am not sure that is true.
            If however fraud is defined here as Rossi thinking he can make it work when he can’t show it, then yes he could be called a fraudster.
            (PS: What ever we say about Rossi, he sure has a lot of folk squealing & squawking 🙂 (yup me included)) 🙂
            PPS: Too many people I know who I can’t write off as village idiots (like I would define GreenWin) , say that Rossi hit on some better than Piantelli’s results but never understood them. Thus the wild ride with him). It seems his so called catalyst was more than the atomic hydrogen splitter I believed it was.

          • John Milstone

            August 9, 2012 at 11:20 am

            I would say Rossi is an out of control eccentric. If fraud is defined as knowing he has nothing, I am not sure that is true.

            He claimed that he heated his “factory” with a LENR device for two years. Are you suggesting that he deluded himself about the temperature in the factory?

            I’ve heard the theory that he was just “overenthusiastic” about some legitimate discovery. Sorry, but I don’t buy it. If someone could point to any legitimate discovery/invention of Rossi’s, it would help. But, of course, it has been clearly demonstrated that all of his earlier work was fraudulent.

            The E-Cat is just more of the same. And a significant portion of the LENR community ate it up, showing that they are too credulous to be trusted.

        • Al Potenza

          August 9, 2012 at 12:35 am

          Robert, the reason people like me repeat themselves is that people like you, totally ignorant of the most basic principles of physics and the scientific method, DON’T GET IT.

    • GreenWin

      August 8, 2012 at 9:06 pm

      Why does everyone forget the “fishing line” scam?? It works for The Amazing Randi.

      The news from NI Week is so exciting former uber-critic and senior denier John R Huizenga has been spotted in Austin:

      • Stephen T.

        August 8, 2012 at 9:53 pm


      • Al Potenza

        August 9, 2012 at 12:57 am

        The fishing line scam got your buddy Sterling Allan hook, line and sinker when Mylow used it. He was bamboozled for months. He took unnecessary trips, chased down Mylow all over Illinois, and even got dragged to Howard Johnson’s grave for a ceremony. It was hilarious indeed.

        Perhaps you should take the lesson from it:

        • GreenWin

          August 9, 2012 at 1:38 am

          Al, THIS is why you’re a fan fave for the shark swim. We are talking about LENR Al!! Hello?? Old school re-frame tricks will only bring more pain.

          Think about retirement Al. It’s a Tribunal free pass!

    • General Zaroff

      August 8, 2012 at 11:18 pm


      Another possibility is that Celani has placed many hard-working, tiny gnomes inside his device. Growing up, whenever I asked my father a technical question he would respond by telling me that tiny gnomes live inside many machines and are responsible for their operation. He would then proceed to beat me mercilessly for asking difficult questions and to deter me from opening the machines up to find the gnomes. He told me that the gnomes are violent and dangerous and want to be left alone.

      My absence of scientific curiosity is largely due to the fact that I am terrified of the little gnomes. Every time I think of them I cower and cover my face instinctively. This is why I usually accept any science claim as valid and try to avoid asking questions.

      I know there are other scientists who believe in the gnomes. There is even a major endeavour underway, known as the Human Gnome Project, to sort them into some kind of sequence. I just hope those scientists are ready to deal with the little bastards if they can find them.

      • General Zaroff

        August 8, 2012 at 11:25 pm

        And now that I have been honest and shared another dark secret, can you and the others here explain why you believe things with blind faith? Did you also learn about gnomes the hard way?

        • Robert Munson

          August 8, 2012 at 11:55 pm


          A few years back when my mum would cradle me and give me kisses. She would tell me not to be scared of the dark it’s the people that choose to stay in the dark that you should worry about. Rally the troops! General

      • daniel maris

        August 9, 2012 at 12:50 am

        Well Truchard was suggesting we need a new name for it: Gnome Energy sounds quite friendly I think.

      • John Milstone

        August 9, 2012 at 11:22 am

        Another possibility is that Celani has placed many hard-working, tiny gnomes inside his device.

        Are you sure he isn’s using Maxwell’s demons?

        Although, if he were using those, when the E-Cat was turned on, it would presumably get colder.

  13. GreenWin

    August 8, 2012 at 9:18 pm

    Seriously fellas, deniers each can throw themselves on the mercy of the People’s Tribunal. Bowing and scraping is preferred, but whining and crying is acceptable. If these are unseemly options, you can swim for it!

    IGZ-2013 Resistance is Futile.

  14. Stephen

    August 8, 2012 at 9:22 pm

    Well I can tell you for one that we paid through the nose for our version of Labview, and the subsequent iterations, and the maintenance program, yet we were trying to get a positive. I feel doubly cheated.

    • GreenWin

      August 8, 2012 at 9:27 pm

      Positive what Stephen? You tippling again??

      • Stephen

        August 12, 2012 at 7:57 pm

        ? We were not using alcohol as a medium, but various other liquidsin the context of LENR research.

        Was that an attempt at humor? Sorry, I teetotally missed it…

  15. Cheme911

    August 8, 2012 at 10:11 pm


    It is not Hot Fusion, Cold Fusion or LENR, IT IS HAWKING RADIATION from the evaporation of micro/quantum black holes created from high energy atomic hydrogen collisions in the lattice or other confining structures for that matter…

    • dsm

      August 8, 2012 at 11:34 pm

      Proofs 🙂 ?

    • RonB

      August 9, 2012 at 6:16 am

      I can see quite a few holes in that explanation 🙂

  16. spyros vlahos

    August 8, 2012 at 10:33 pm

    Don’t you think that it goes rather slowly for a revolution?
    For some time I was expecting to see something new, but all I get is a lot of gossip : who’s the one, who’s the other. Trying to take hope from triviallities.
    Utterly dissappointing!
    The only phrase it comes to me is “goodnight”!

    • daniel maris

      August 9, 2012 at 12:51 am

      OK, one goodnight deserves another. 🙂

  17. GreenWin

    August 8, 2012 at 10:51 pm

    A serendipitous development, the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission suspends all nuclear power plant licensing, indefinitely, by court order. Why? The pesky problem of radioactive waste.

    Now, when does GE, Mitsubishi Heavy, Fluor, Bechtel etc., announce entry into commercial LENR??

  18. dsm

    August 9, 2012 at 12:57 am

    Where is Popeye when you need him ?
    Can anyone else translate this into vernacular everyday English (am guessing not 🙁 )
    DSM 🙂
    (It appears to be all or part of Peter Hagelstein’s most recent theory on LENR)

    • Al Potenza

      August 9, 2012 at 12:59 am

      Theory doesn’t matter much until there is a demonstrated phenomenon to explain. It may be of value for those actively working in research in the field but for most spectators, theories are very premature. So far, the NATO general’s gnome theory is as good as we need.

      • GreenWin

        August 9, 2012 at 1:26 am

        Kinda suks when yer fair weather frenz abandon you.

    • Quax

      August 9, 2012 at 6:33 am

      Can’t tell if his math pans out without working through his previous paper that he cited. But what he is trying to do is to demonstrate that a LENR systems allows low energy phonon lattice vibrations to couple to the high energy domain of nuclear transitions. He essentially tries to explain how the latter can be thermalized without any hard radiation.

      From the looks of it his approach is far more conventional than the WL-theory (a good thing in my book). But he has to make a lot of assumptions and approximations to be able to solve for this model. This is reminiscent of the kind of simplifications done in quantum chemistry. Sometimes they fall flat.

      His calculations would really benefit from a quantum computer 🙂

      • dsm

        August 9, 2012 at 9:04 am

        Thanks mate – appreciate the comments 🙂

  19. Ivan Mohorovicic

    August 9, 2012 at 1:18 am

    There’s a new video about LENR in the National Instruments Youtube Channel from NIWeek2012. Follows copy/paste from Vortex-l:


    -> Youtube link:

    Anomalous Heat Effects

    Listen as Dr. Duncan and Greg Morrow talk about our need to expand our experimental approach to develop more research on anomalous heat effects. These effects have been referred to as ‘cold fusion’ and ‘low-energy nuclear reactions’ in the past, but these names imply an understanding of the physical origin of these anomalous effects that in fact does not yet exist. NI LabVIEW is at the heart of each of these experiments that may help develop and unravel the mysteries of the many theories.

    • Al Potenza

      August 9, 2012 at 7:37 am

      “Listen as Dr. Duncan and Greg Morrow talk about our need to expand our experimental approach to develop more research on anomalous heat effects. “

      If Defkalion, Rossi, and Brouillin, Miley and the others claiming large power output aren’t deluded or crooks, why do we need more research? They have it solved, don’t they? Rossi has a 1200 degree ecat and a million ecat factory. Brouillin has a boiler. Defkalion has seven test organizations. We need more? Why?

  20. GreenWin

    August 9, 2012 at 1:21 am

    All STAR Cast of deniers headed to the People’s Tribunal:

    Gnl Zarcofagus
    Kimo Nosabe
    Al Pretenza*
    Jail Numan
    Gary Doug Davefnj s Wrong
    J Millstoned
    Frank InSteen
    Dick Hedsmith
    Clueless Chris
    Nosho Quax
    Dedeye Pop
    dozens more.

    *30:1 odds eaten by sharks
    GZI-2013 Resistance IS Futile

    • General Zaroff

      August 9, 2012 at 5:36 am

      I suppose that if I am ‘Gul Zarcofagus’ from your list, then I am honoured that you assigned me the rank of a Cardassian commanding officer.

      If Celani does get his work validated and LENR is accepted, what cause will you champion in the post-LENR-denial world? I worry that after you have eliminated all of us skeptics there will be a great emptiness in your life. Such an emptiness could drive a man crazy, so you may want to watch for early signs of madness.

      • GreenWin

        August 9, 2012 at 11:50 pm

        Let’s see… with the corporate, guv’mnt and political toadies spewing xenophobic bile and hatred in this universe (read comments on AR) – there is a never-ending path for the Yoda and Jedi!

        However, deniers are reporting suicidal ideation now that Rossi/Focardi have brought LENR forward. This is encouraging for some.

    • Quax

      August 9, 2012 at 6:41 am

      Too bad as it is a People tribunal I won’t ever learn what I am accused of.

      But maybe you confuse me with someone from this band?

      Their music will make a good soundtrack for your murderous fantasies.

      • dsm

        August 9, 2012 at 9:03 am

        But what of the missing name – the one who regularly posts:- disconnected verbiage (no one but himslef ever understands), rants, emotive historical quotes, religion, fantasy, lies, crap & anything but factual proof of what he seems so obsessed with (LENR & Rossi I think ?) 🙂 🙂 🙂
        (The sharks would not eat him all 🙂 – ask a shark expert “does he (shark) eat’em whole ?’ – Expert: No most sharks spit’em hole out)

      • GreenWin

        August 10, 2012 at 12:00 am

        Quax, nothing at all murderous IF deniers elect the bow and scrape option (aka apology) at trial. Alternatively, whining and crying is acceptable. But, our sponsors (a growing list) prefer the convicted swim for Zarcofagus Island. Remember, those who make it get a pocket knife, Keds Conqueror Boots, and ‘Myopic Scientist Survival Guide.’

        It’s a reality show Quax inspired by the rantings of the Generale. All convicts get a fair chance to survive.

        • Quax

          August 10, 2012 at 5:08 am

          So what am I supposed to apologize for? My stance is very similar to DSM who didn’t make the list. Not sure if I should be flattered or insulted.

  21. admin

    August 9, 2012 at 1:51 am

    Post updated. New video.


    • dsm

      August 9, 2012 at 5:49 am

      Thanks Paul

      These events are well worth keeping in touch with


  22. Kim

    August 9, 2012 at 3:19 am

    Money and Free energy do not mix.

    Do you think that the people in those
    space ships, come here to get change
    for a Twenty?

    There can only be one or the other.

    Money or Free Energy…

    That is the decision being made today.


  23. Nixter

    August 9, 2012 at 3:57 am

    The rapidly increasing flow of quality data supporting LENR’s reality is gaining unstoppable, irreversible momentum in labs, classrooms and board rooms across the entire planet. Names are being listed, wrongs registered, mistakes cataloged, proponents recognized. It looks like LENR will emerge as a functional system soon.

    Recent developments in the LENR field should be making the Cold Fusion doubters start to feel a bit unsettled in their publicly stated positions on the subject. The entire conglomeration of experimenters, researchers and scientists has been gaining acceptance over the last year, producing a technological snowball effect.

    • Kim

      August 9, 2012 at 5:13 am

      That Elephant in Exxon’s Board Room is
      getting bigger by the day…

      They may have to put him on a diet.


      • dsm

        August 9, 2012 at 8:57 am

        that really was quite a good example. 🙂
        (How many years does it take for an Elephant to mature ? – yup we both know) 🙂

    • spacegoat

      August 9, 2012 at 7:03 am

      LENR is stoppable. Quote from the Hagelstein interview (link above):
      “PH: If things go on the way that they’re going on today, the answer is that it’s never going to happen. There’s fewer and fewer people each year, and the amount of resources are not great, and basically we’re getting older. We’re not going to live forever — I don’t think we’re going to live forever, anyway. Unless something changes, there’s a very good change we’re not going to finish our work before there’s none of us left to do any of it. Generally new new people have not been joining the field, and there’s a lot of reasons for that. If a young person thinks of joining the field, he or she does it at peril of having a career ruined by association with being in the field. So, it’s not guaranteed at the moment that this technology is actually going to make it into any kind of commercial used without a fundamental change in how things work.”

      Look at the NI Texas event video … all the guys in the field are near retirement age.

      Unbalanced scepticism has caused great damage. Ecatnews patho sceptics may claim they are innocently asking questions, but the result at scientific community scale is death of a promising field for humanity and possibly the suppression of a “solve-all” energy source.

      The unbalance referred to has been dealt with in earlier posts, but in summary the balance of evidence, risks, costs and potential benefits was violently perturbed by patho scepticism and vested interest.

      • DvH

        August 9, 2012 at 8:27 am

        and what is the role of figures like AR in this ? do they provide progress or damage?

      • dsm

        August 9, 2012 at 8:54 am

        I might agree with you but for the antics (a *very* kind word) of one particular person who could single handedly do to LENR/CF what Josef Papp did to Noble gas plasma research (that is – all but destroy it because of paranoia, eccentricity, greed, resentment, a pathological need to maintain control & in Rossi’s case – outright lies)).

      • John Milstone

        August 9, 2012 at 3:12 pm

        As soon as we have a researcher with a working device and a the ability and willingness to share his work so other researchers can replicate and validate it, then it will be unstoppable.

        So far, no one has done this. Everyone who claims to have a working device is sitting on it in hopes of becoming rich.

        If you want to blame someone for the lack of progress in LENR, blame the greedy researchers.

  24. Jami

    August 9, 2012 at 8:52 am

    “The rapidly increasing flow of quality data supporting LENR’s reality is gaining unstoppable, irreversible momentum in labs, classrooms and board rooms across the entire planet”

    In reality, it is more like an avalange of nonsense slowly losing momentum – but feel free to dream on.

  25. JNewman

    August 9, 2012 at 12:43 pm

    People really enjoy rooting for the underdog and can do it indefinitely. It would be really interesting to see what would happen if there was a truly convincing demonstration of LENR. To date, this has been a topic dominated by free energy hucksters, scientists allergic to the scientific method, and Internet fans with a distinct anti-science bias. With a convincing demo, the mainstream scientific and business communities would swoop in leaving the hucksters, fringe researchers and anti-science laymen on the sidelines. There will be no trophies for the believers. Presumably, this is what you are all pushing for because it is only realistic outcome if this technology turns out to be real.

    • Ransompw

      August 9, 2012 at 1:26 pm


      What constitutes a convincing demonstration is wholely dependant on the one person trying to be convinced. No matter what is demonstrated some will find it unconvincing even if you eventually give in. There will always be the stubborn holdouts, after all there are those who aren’t convinced we landed on the moon.

      So apparantly you are not convinced by Celani’s demonstration. Of course you are not there to see it and as far as we know, the demonstration hasn’t even ended. But you have concluded. That’s ok, your opinion is only one in a very large world. And I might add, I have seen no survey to see if you even represent the majority anymore (of those who have actually considered the matter).

      I suspect by the time you acknowledge a convincing demonstration, the world will have already gotten to the next step in the process, commercialization of the effect.

      • DvH

        August 9, 2012 at 1:44 pm

        definetly true ! being convinced is subjective.
        it doesnt always have to be connected to reality: some folks are convinced that the apollo-landing was a hoax. others are convinced the earth is hollow.
        there seems to be at least one guy who was convinced by ARs blue container demo…

        but who cares ? the only thing relevant is that I am convinced! and i am convinced that: AR doesnt have a clue of sophisticated technology, AR sits alone on his veranda blogging on his notebook,
        the blue container is an over-engineered warm-water generator with a cop < 1.
        and i am convinced that i know it is real when i see the real thing.

      • JNewman

        August 9, 2012 at 7:48 pm

        Ransom, you are always on about people concluding things. I have not concluded anything about Celani’s demonstration. You have. All we have are second- and third-hand reports of the demonstration. We don’t have all the details at the moment. As a result, we can’t conclude anything. However, you have already concluded that it is the proof people have been waiting for. Perhaps it will be just that, but I don’t have sufficient information to draw that conclusion. Do you?

    • daniel maris

      August 9, 2012 at 2:36 pm

      There you go again JM …irrational negativism…

    • Dale G. Basgall

      August 9, 2012 at 2:36 pm

      Now J I am trying to grasp your comment statement
      “Presumably, this is what you are all pushing for because it is only realistic outcome if this technology turns out to be real.”

      The realistic outcome I can digest because it’s an opinion that as you say is presumptuas to you and everyone has several opinions, and is free to post it here.

      The “if this technology turns out to be real” is an obvious misinterpretation on your behalf and even though I really get enjoyment out of reading the posts, some things need explained to me a little better and reality in fact is important for one, the observer, and secondly others reading.

      What in specific is not real about the technology of LENR? It appears tangible, nickel is an element metal, electricity is commonly accepted as a real phenomena. I could go on with alot of things I can put my hands on physically to lead me to believe reality does exist in the LENR technology.

      Your here posting about it, so what makes it unreal to you?

      • JNewman

        August 9, 2012 at 7:56 pm

        Dale, are you being deliberately dense? We have all freely used such language around here for more than a year. By LENR being “real”, I mean that it is a nuclear or other exotic process that yields excess energy for a duration beyond what a chemically-fueled process can do. It is that this is some new piece of physics and not just a misinterpretation or mismeasurement of something ordinary. Obviously, the existing experiments in the files are “real” in the broader sense that stuff was measured and energy produced by some means or another. But that is a worthless observation. I don’t think my point is mysterious in any way.

  26. buffalo

    August 9, 2012 at 2:42 pm

    small gamma ray and x-ray bursts not necessarily evidence of nuke reactions.rapid oscillation of many electrical and or chemical phenomena can produce such bursts.evry time u switch ur light on or off a pulse of electromagnetic radiation is burst owt.

    • John Milstone

      August 9, 2012 at 3:06 pm

      Apparent transmutation isn’t necessarily evidence of nuclear reactions either.

      Al posted a link several weeks (months?) ago to a paper from the 1930s that retracted an earlier claim of H ->He transmutation.

      The original experiments described a table-top reactor that appeared to be producing Helium, but only when they ran the tests with Hydrogen gas. When the same experiment was run with either “air” or in a vacuum, no Helium appeared. It seemed like a clear demonstration of transmutation in a device that looked very much like modern LENR devices.

      They had to retract their claims when they discovered that the Helium was already in the glass walls of the device. It happened that only a Hydrogen atmosphere caused the Helium to be driven out of the glass.

      Al, if you happen to still have that link, it might be worth posting it again.

  27. buffalo

    August 9, 2012 at 2:48 pm

    i say,as a scientist,if celani,s apparatus registerd a lingering trace of radiation,especialy beta or alpha particles,long after being switchd off then that would be a definitive proof of a nuke phenomena

  28. Ivan Mohorovicic

    August 9, 2012 at 3:09 pm

    A video of Celani’s “Anomalous Excess Heat” demo from NIWeek – very interesting:

    • John Milstone

      August 9, 2012 at 3:16 pm

      Interestingly, the video’s poster falsely claims that this is an E-Cat and the work of Andrea Rossi.

  29. GreenWin

    August 9, 2012 at 11:33 pm

    RE: Zaroff August 9, 2012 at 5:36 am

    Just an excellent question Generale! But you have your timeline wrong. I am projecting a full 6 YEARS of scintillating IGZ programming, i.e. scientific correction. It will take at least that long to prosecute the 500 most egregious LENR deniers!

    See, if we throw three perps per episode into the shark infested waters x 22 episodes x 6 years (to syndication) – that’s only 396 perps prosecuted. That’s 104 that could go Scott Free. That’s a full meal:)

    News from NI Week has attracted dozens of former critics and senior deniers. MIT’s hot fusion champeen Ron Parker has been spotted in Austin: