eCatNews Direct to your MailBox

Enter your email address to follow the ecat story ahead of the crowd

I loathe spam. You can unsubscribe at any time. I will not pass your details to a third party

Science

March 22, 2012

From Greenwin:

For those here who are interested in real science and papers being given at the world’s largest scientific research center – CERN – European Center for Nuclear Research will be streaming live Dr. Francesco Celani’s and Dr. Yogendra Srivastava’s discussion of LANR. CERN, the home of FTL neutrino theory and the impressive CLOUD experiments (putting AGW to sleep) streams online:

http://webcast.web.cern.ch/webcast/

Program time and overview here:

http://indico.cern.ch/conferenceDisplay.py?confId=177379

Don’t forget to tune in to Dr. Miley and Dr. Kim’s presentations on Friday at the NASA sponsored Emerging Technologies for Space conference:

http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/nets2012/pdf/sess462.pdf

Disclosure continues apace.

Posted by on March 22, 2012. Filed under Competitors,Uncategorized. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

847 Responses to Science

  1. Dick Smith

    March 26, 2012 at 9:46 pm

    Good little earner -who will be first.

    It does not seem to occur to anyone that as a result of Rossi and Defkalion having rejected my $1 m offer that it is available to be won by the first person who purchases one of their units and makes an arrangement with a respected scientific body to do a simple test and confirm that it works as claimed!

    Sounds like a pretty good way of turning $2 k into $1 m to me.

    • SH

      March 26, 2012 at 9:52 pm

      Defkalion having rejected my $1 m offer

      Getting a little senile there, Dick? Defkalion ACCEPTED your lame offer! YOU backed out of that one faster than the speed of light!

      • RonB

        March 26, 2012 at 10:06 pm

        This post intentionally left blank. 😮
        Feel free to talk amongst yourselves.

      • Thicket

        March 26, 2012 at 10:31 pm

        SH

        No. Defkalion categorically turned down Dick Smith’s offer. They countered with a ludicrous offer involving an NDA and secrecy. Gee, I wonder why that wasn’t acceptable? Could it be because Smith wanted openness and publicity? Ya think?

        • Ransompw

          March 26, 2012 at 10:46 pm

          Thicket:

          That comment is just silly. Dick Smith never even saw the NDA, he has no idea what it said. So neither he nor you know if it would have prohibited any disclosure he had in mind.

          He didn’t even bother to ask if they would forgo the NDA. He turned tail and ran as soon as they showed any interest in his offer.

          • Al Potenza

            March 26, 2012 at 11:23 pm

            Far as I know, nobody has ever seen a Defkalion NDA on the internet. If it was something harmless and in good faith, I’d think it would be up to Defkalion to publish it and say something like “See? Here is all we wanted Smith to sign and he wouldn’t do it.”

            Despite their promises to do so, Defkalion has never produced any test protocols or agreements they decided on with their testers. And they have never named them and so far, there have been no results.

            Do we expect that there will be test results soon? I don’t know but I am tending to doubt it.

          • Thicket

            March 26, 2012 at 11:50 pm

            Ransom

            The ND in NDA stands for Non-Disclosure. If Dick Smith wanted full disclosure, why on earth would he want to see a Non-Disclosure Agreement? I think your comment is silly.

            Besides, Defkalion would have been delighted if Smith asked for a copy of their NDA. It gives them credibility. It goes something like this – “The well-known entrepreneur Dick Smith was in business discussions with us. Unfortunately, agreement couldn’t be reached at this. We thank Mr. Smith for his interest in our revolutionary technology.”

            Al

            Disclosing a Non-Disclosure Agreement is a bit of an oxymoron. 🙂

          • dsm

            March 27, 2012 at 12:04 am

            Dick Smith said from the start he wanted it all out in the open because as soon as there is any behind the scenes ‘chatting’ under an NDA it can be spun (as you know so well) into anything and gets nasty if either party tries to contradict the other.

            That is pure and simple commonsense. Dick has seen too many such ploys before.

            DSM

          • Bob D

            March 27, 2012 at 2:55 am

            Ransom,

            Are you still on the planet or hovering about in Deep Space?

            Talk about silly. Tell us please, what is Elvis up to????

          • Ransompw

            March 27, 2012 at 2:56 am

            ND does stand for Non Disclosure but A stands for agreement. You can agree to limit the ND to whatever you want.

            I real business in their position would always ask for an NDA. So their asking for one only proves they are acting reasonably and Dick Smith walking away only proves he doesn’t want to pay them a million for a positive test, he only wants to do his best to discredit them.

            His mind is made up and so is yours. The last thing he wanted them to do is accept his offer, that is why he made up a lame excuse and walked away.

            And of course he could have asked to see it and if it was really intended to prevent him from disclosing the test results etc., he could have posted it and said told you so. He didn’t even want to take that chance.

            Spin it however you want, Dick Smith wasn’t serious and Defkalion called his bluff. He of course turned tail and ran.

          • Ransompw

            March 27, 2012 at 3:10 am

            Bob D, do you have anything worth saying or can I assume from your comment you really don’t understand NDA’s and IP protection?

        • Ransompw

          March 27, 2012 at 3:06 am

          An NDA doesn’t mean negotiations have to be undisclosed. Until it is signed it means diddly squat. Smith could have said, send the NDA and I will look it over. If it is preventing any disclosure he deems important he posts it, says no and demands Defkalion change the terms. He can do that publically and make more headway in his quest to prove they are frauds then he did by making up this lame excuse and walking away.

          He didn’t do that because he didn’t want to see it, he didn’t want to take the chance and he surely didn’t want to go forward with his offer. As soon as they said yes, he wasn’t interested.

          • dsm

            March 27, 2012 at 3:20 am

            Ransompw

            The moment DS asked for an NDA and it was public knowledge the focus has switched from DGT to DS.

            You cannot put forward one even half fair argument that counters the very open interaction DS was asking for.

            This to me is just another example of your professional spin tactics. Try to paint DS as the cause of the failure when everyone saw what happened – DGT shutdown their forums and failed to live up to one commitment to name the teams and make the tests open.

            DSM

          • Bob D

            March 27, 2012 at 7:43 am

            Ransom,

            Assume what you wish.

            I for one do not worship at the Altar
            of Secrecy.

          • spacegoat

            March 27, 2012 at 11:59 am

            Fully agree with you Ransompw.
            Some posters changed intellectual position as soon as the putative DS Oz celebrity appeared on this site. What chance for a fair evaluation of ecat?

          • Thicket

            March 27, 2012 at 12:03 pm

            Folks know that Ransom is a lawyer involved in civil litigation.

            Part of a lawyer’s job and training is to present and debate a case, regardless of whether he/she thinks the case is valid. It’s often a matter of Orwellian double-think. The lawyer presents the case as persuasively as possible, despite having no personal conviction that the case is valid.

            A lawyer must enjoy debating, regardless of personal position.

            I think we see that here with Ransom. Many of his arguments are complete hogwash. It’s evident to rational thinkers. Yet he keeps debating. It’s part of his training. He can’t help it. It’s automatic. He even debates technical things that he is totally clueless about.

            There is little point in trying to convince him of your position. He is trained for court action to vigorously oppose any evidence not supporting his client’s position.

          • Ransompw

            March 27, 2012 at 2:10 pm

            I will try one more time on the NDA issue.

            I happen to be an MBA and a CPA as well as a lawyer. I happen to know a lot about NDA’s

            Defkalion’s proposal to have Dick sign an NDA is normal operating procedure for any business which has IP. Now you may doubt Defkalion has IP, but that is what they claim. If they do have IP which needs protection they can’t allow testing without a signed NDA. I mean can’t.

            That said, an NDA is not effective until signed and it in NO way inposed any restrictions on Dick to disclose whatever he wanted before an agreement was struck. Second, NDA’s can and are designed by agreement of the parties and certainly I hope you would all agree that a perfectly acceptable NDA could have been drafted under these circumstance that would have satisfied Dick’s goal. If you doubt that go see a lawyer.

            Dick didn’t try, he didn’t even bother to counter their request with a counter. He just used it as an excuse to walk away, simple as that.

          • Thicket

            March 27, 2012 at 5:30 pm

            Ransom

            I will also try one more time. Frankly, I know that I won’t convince you. You’ve chosen your side, and your training and experience won’t let you change.

            I have a small real-world example involving contracts. It’s not as complicated as an NDA but it makes a point.

            There was a service supplier to my company. Their service and costs were good. A couple of months ago I arranged for this company to do some work in my plant.

            On a Friday I get an ultimatum from them. Either sign the Terms and Conditions they attached or they won’t come in the following Wednesday to do work for me. I don’t know if they had legal difficulties that pushed them to such aggressive tactics. The field folks I talked with said that their company was now run by lawyers.

            An internet search and a few phone calls got me a different service provider.

            I wrote an e-mail thanking the old service provider for their past work and said that I had made alternate arrangements for future work. They lost my companies business.

            My point?

            I never read their Terms and Conditions even though they were a mouse click away. Maybe they were fine, but I was not going to deal with a company that gives a short-notice ultimatum to a customer.

            This is the real world, Ransom. It’s not some lawyer’s legal interpretation. In the real world Smith doesn’t trust Defkalion. He gives them a chance for a public and validated test. Defkalion refuses and counters with several conditions including secrecy requirements. There is not even the remotest chance that Smith would agree to any form of secrecy. He plainly said so. There is zero, nada, zilch reasons for him to ask for the NDA document. To think otherwise is silly beyond reason.

            You can ream off all your qualifications as many times as you like. It doesn’t change the fact that you have chosen to defend Rossi and Defkalion. It’s not your fault that they’ve given you lousy ammunition to debate with. But like a good lawyer defending his client, you do the best you can. Unfortunately it’s a lost cause.

    • Quax

      March 26, 2012 at 10:07 pm

      You have an evil sense of humor 🙂

    • Ransompw

      March 26, 2012 at 10:49 pm

      Your offer is to the institution and then only certain institutions, it isn’t to the purchaser of a LENR product. Beside, the day it looks like this thing is real will be the day your offer is withdrawn. You can fool some of the people…

      • daniel maris

        March 26, 2012 at 11:05 pm

        Seconded.

      • dsm

        March 27, 2012 at 12:08 am

        More Ransompw spin – Dick Smith has many times more credibility than you will ever earn here.
        .
        So you can say for a ‘fact’ that Dick Smith will withdraw his offer. Why dear boy ? – what proofs – does he have a track record of doing so – I know that (IMHO) you have a rather pathetic track record of fabrication & spin. And Daniel Maris is always there to lick your boots.
        .
        DSM

        • Ransompw

          March 27, 2012 at 2:41 am

          I didn’t say for a fact he would withdraw his offer but it would fit his past MO. And his offer is not serious otherwise he would have set it up to encourage someone to present something for testing. It isn’t set up that way for a reason.

          I really don’t care to stoop to your level of posting, I just wish you would behave yourself and stop insulting everyone who disagrees with you.

          • dsm

            March 27, 2012 at 3:22 am

            Ransompw wrote “it would fit his past MO”

            Where ? – Proofs ? – more lying spin from the spinmaster who has a past MO here of repeated fabrication and spin !. And you try to point a finger at DS. Wow!.

            A real gem

            DSM

          • dsm

            March 27, 2012 at 3:27 am

            Ransompw said “I really don’t care to stoop to your level of posting, I just wish you would behave yourself and stop insulting everyone who disagrees with you.”
            .
            Well likewise I just wish you would cease posting fabrications & and characteristic spin on my research posts where I put up links and details and quotes that you then glibly claim do not say what they actually say such as Piantelli’s 2008 patent.
            .
            You know that if something walks like a fabrication, talks like a fabrication, looks like a fabrication then that must be exactly what it is and sadly that is you.
            .
            Ransompw – Yes I insult you when you fabricate or spin the factual docs I post.
            .
            DSM

            The easy way out is for you to stop posting garbage when I link to a patent or a letter or some other historical bit of evidence that you don’t like.

          • Ransompw

            March 27, 2012 at 3:45 am

            DSM:

            I disagree with you. You are incorrect in your interpretation and I have explained why I believe you are incorrect. You obviously disagree. Fine. You don’t have to be insulting it is not necessary. It isn’t like we are getting graded on our posts or that our fellow posters must take sides, many if not most probably don’t care about our little debate.

            You know as much time as we spend on this site posting, it really doesn’t matter and it won’t change reality.

            Someday, all these issues may be clear, until then I think all of us are entitled to our opinion, even Thicket and Popeye.

          • dsm

            March 27, 2012 at 3:55 am

            Ransompw

            Can I respectfully invite you to not respond to my posts about Piantelli. Others are fair game.

            In the case of Piantelli information you repeatedly post provable fabrications and when I reply with extracts of the obvious detail you claim the document was altered or the the words don’t mean what they say. Or you provide a link to an empty page etc:

            I never once asked you to respond to the info on Piantelli. In fact I asked you not to because of your history of fabrication & spin on the subject.

            Please just end it by not responding to what I post on Piantelli as you rarely if ever back up the claims you make (because they aren’t real). Thus it becomes apparent you are just out to create mischief.

            Once again – peace ! & lets move on.

            DSM

  2. Shane D.

    March 26, 2012 at 10:58 pm

    Japanese scientist claims breakthrough with cold fusion experiment

    By Donald Melanson posted May 26th 2008 12:10PM

    While recent attempts to create a perpetual motion machine somehow, inexplicably didn’t pan out, a physics professor from Osaka University now claims to have made a scientific breakthrough of another sort, with him now touting nothing less than a supposedly successful demonstration of cold fusion. That was apparently done by forcing deuterium gas under pressure into an evacuated cell containing a sample of palladium dispersed in zirconium oxide, which caused the deuterium to be absorbed by the palladium sample, resulting in a denser, or “pynco” deuterium, with deuterium nuclei that are close enough together to fuse. That process also supposedly resulted in a rise in temperature to about 70° Celsius, and a temperature in the center of the cell that remained “significantly warmer” than the cell wall for 50 hours after the test. Of course, there doesn’t appear to be any other scientists ready to back up the experiment just yet, so you’ll have to rely on your own armchair science expertise to get your hopes up or down accordingly on this one.

    http://www.engadget.com/2008/05/26/japanese-scientist-claims-breakthrough-with-cold-fusion-experime/

    • Ransompw

      March 26, 2012 at 11:04 pm

      You do realize that was 4 years ago?

      • Shane D.

        March 26, 2012 at 11:10 pm

        Oops. Maybe this one is more up to date:

        CERN Has A LENR Colloquium

        March 26, 2012 | 3 Comments

        Settle in, CERN the multinational research group based in Europe had a colloquium on Low Energy Nuclear Reactions last Thursday. There was no big news, but there is interesting news out of Japan. The file downloads are a treasure trove of useful information.

        To start is the 40-page PDF presentation by Yogendra Srivastava from the University of Perugia. The file is a set of the slides shown during the presentation and is complete enough to get a good feel for the narrative. This is the first complete enough and extensive enough presentation to put real confidence into the Widom Preperata – Larsen theory(s). The theory(s) may well turn out to be the facts, and if the connections Srivastava uses turn out to be accurate metaphors, the chance to inform the public is looking up and could very well prompt some public support.

        Srivastava gets the technology overview going by page 9 and over the following ten pages covers the most likely and experimentally validated energy inputs. From electricity and magnetic to elastic piezoelectric, the prevailing influence of a theoretical view from Widom the evidence is compelling that with a good enough kit many experimenters can get in on the progress.

        Celani gave an overview of background history of significant Low Energy Nuclear Reaction experiments for the CERN observers running 32 pages. The PDF file is strong enough that it would do for a download and saving for answering those you’d meet who’d like to get up to date in a brief way.

        Of particular note Celani identifies 6 key unanswered questions worth a quick repeat in your humble writers preferred order.

        1. What is the root cause of experimental irreproducibility? This problem deserves answered for multiple reasons.
        2. Is there one mechanism active or are there multiple processes? A question that leads to:
        3. Are the reactions only nuclear, only atomic or both?
        4. Which external factor could be used to initiate and control LENR?
        5. What, if anything, is common to electrochemical and gas loading experiments that have exhibited excess power and heat?
        6. Do the reactions occur only on the surface of materials or also in the bulk (volume) of the materials?

        As a set the order may be subjected to more questions that individual experimenters seek to answer as they make progress. Celani does make the leading matters to outside observers pretty clear. As the possible answers get closer to firm conclusions the news will really heat up. Celani winds up with an appeal for an international, multidisciplinary approach. The idea has merit as well as sparking reservations. Still, the world needs answers and the questions that follow more than a giant research project.

        Celani and Srivastava were both expected to at the colloquium so the news centers on a new player: Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Technical Headquarters from Japan. Keep in mind the Japanese folks never fell for the cold fusion assassination that went on in the west. Instead they worked along, making progress.

        Mitsubishi is saying, “D2 gas permeation through nano-structured Pd multilayer film makes it possible to induce nuclear transmutation under low pressure and low temperature condition.” That was followed by the notice the Toyota R&D Center, Osaka Univ., Iwate Univ., etc. replicated the transmutation experiments of Cs into Pr.

        LENR is going commercial?

        Mitsubishi is hoping for three applications, nuclear transmutation of radioactive waste, production of rare earth materials and a portable nuclear energy source.

        This news while subtle is quite interesting. The folks at Mitsubishi are looking far beyond palladium, platinum and nickel. That begs the question – “What is it they already know?” They seem to have an answer that stimulates a far-reaching implication – there may well be Low Energy Nuclear Transmutations or “LENT” across a much larger part of the element table that any of us have been thinking so far.

        Srivastava offered a reminder of Enrico Fermi who famously said, “Give me enough neutrons and I shall give you the Entire Periodic Table.” Evidently the huge Japanese conglomerates are taking the Fermi dictum seriously with encouraging results.

        That LENT term seems to be a new acronym we’ll need to keep at hand. Srivastava used it as well as Mitsubishi. The term clearly implies rather solidly that Cold Fusion to LENR is moving on with LENT as well.

        Perhaps the colloquium served as a wakeup call to the folks at CERN. The private industry work surely raised eyebrows. Rossi and Defkalion aside, cold fusion to LENR to LENT is getting more interesting by the month.
        http://newenergyandfuel.com/http:/newenergyandfuel/com/2012/03/26/cern-has-a-lenr-colloquium/

        • daniel maris

          March 26, 2012 at 11:29 pm

          I think this is important – when you get a big company like Mitsubishi backing this technology it’s got to mean more than an obscure university team.

          The evidence is stacking up.

          How many teams can be wrong, not know how to isolate the heat source etc.?

          These companies don’t really have any ego invested in the tests as an individual scientist might. They will be looking at this v. pragmatically.

          At the very least there appears to be some useful applications for this techology.

          • dsm

            March 27, 2012 at 12:17 am

            Daniel

            You so often post misunderstandings & pipe dreams. Are you a lawyer too ?

            DSM

          • daniel maris

            March 27, 2012 at 12:39 am

            DSM,

            I’m entitled to my view. I backed Elon Musk, correctly, against sceptics when he first set up. I didn’t understand rocketry but I read a lot about his ideas and formed a judgement.

            I think you can exercise judgment without necessarily understanding all the scientific and technological issues. It’s a question of putting the jigsaw pieces together.

            My judgement is that LENR is definitely a real phenomenon. Whether Rossi and Defkalion can back up their particular claims remains to be seen.

            I’m not a lawyer though I’ve seen plenty of lawyers in operation!

          • Bob D

            March 27, 2012 at 3:02 am

            Daniel,

            Yes, the evidence is encouraging. Now if we only had a device, product, or gizmo that works!

        • RonB

          March 27, 2012 at 12:07 am

          Do you think it will be reported on the evening news? Should I cue up the Tivo and put in a sell order on gold?

  3. Harry Perini

    March 26, 2012 at 11:10 pm

    I was one of the first to order a home Ecat from Andrea Rossi. I will submit it for test as soon as I receive it. Please send money.

    Dick Smith Reply

    March 26, 2012 at 9:46 pm

    Good little earner -who will be first.

    It does not seem to occur to anyone that as a result of Rossi and Defkalion having rejected my $1 m offer that it is available to be won by the first person who purchases one of their units and makes an arrangement with a respected scientific body to do a simple test and confirm that it works as claimed!

    Sounds like a pretty good way of turning $2 k into $1 m to me.

    • dsm

      March 27, 2012 at 12:15 am

      Harry
      .
      LOL 🙂 🙂
      .
      Noooo yoooou won’t 🙂 – I had 2 eCats on order the day Rossi put them on his web site. I’ll claim the $mill & will get Ian Bryce to do the eval before I take it under police escort to the Atomic Energy Center at Lucas Heights. Sydney.
      .
      So what will stop me from winning – Rossi won’t deliver before Feb 2013.
      .
      So what chance do any of us have of winning it ?
      Zilch !
      .
      DSM

  4. Dick Smith

    March 27, 2012 at 3:09 am

    Are you aware that Rossi’s ECAT demonstrations have been exposed, and there is no surviving real demonstration of excess power – see http://www.skeptics.com.au (Cold Fusion technical article) for a summary,

    • Ransompw

      March 27, 2012 at 3:37 am

      I have to say Dick that citing the Australian Skeptics for anything has no more credibility to me then Rossi. Most of us have debated the various demonstrations since the beginning. None can prove a nuclear process and of course there are many ways to scam the results. That said, without a hidden energy source which can be speculated about but has not been proved, the demonstrations did demonstrate excess power and that can’t be questioned.

      Essen and Kullander’s test saw the temperature of the water input rise beyond the energy input. And that is even if NO steam was created, but we know from observation that some was created.

      Your Society is incorrect. Rossi may be scamming and I won’t dispute that possibility, but that evidence is unidentified and excess power is unquestioned. (Not enough to rule out a chemical process, but that process is also unidentified)

      • CuriousChris

        March 27, 2012 at 8:51 am

        “but that evidence is unidentified and excess power is unquestioned. (Not enough to rule out a chemical process, but that process is also unidentified)”

        You keep hoping. there is no excess energy at all. None Nada not a drop. Wet steam carries away the moisture.

        Watch the video below
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uviXoafHWrU
        And do some simple math.

        Where is the steam.
        why did it ‘condense’ into the bucket
        What was Rossi doing at the controls?

        Its simple really and when one finally admits to having wool pulled over their eyes, it all becomes clearer.

        LENR may be possible. Though I have my doubts now. But Defkalion and Rossi? Nope they are just scammers.

        • georgehants

          March 27, 2012 at 9:10 am

          CuriousChris, allowing that total clear proof is not yet secured, but much fair evidence for a Cold Fusion effect —
          How do you feel about the millions of lives that possibly have been lost because of the denial and lack of research by main-line science.
          The open-minded, unbiased research to confirm that Cold Fusion is a myth would have cost a few millions.
          Would that have been wasted against the benefits if it showed the effect to be genuine.

        • Ransompw

          March 27, 2012 at 1:54 pm

          Curious:

          Please read the March test attended by Essen and Kullander. Excess power was identified, it has nothing whatsoever to do with the quality of the steam.

          If you are going to come here and post about Rossi being a scammer at least have a credible set of facts to back up what you say.

          • CuriousChris

            March 28, 2012 at 8:55 am

            So you didn’t consider the video. Why not you were touting it not that long ago.

            In my opinion Kullander and Essen are not credible witnesses. They did not account for liquid exiting the device via a pipe and running down the drain. Yet they admit it did. “To the right at the chimney, a black hose of heavy rubber, for high temperatures, carries the hot water/steam to the sink on the wall of the adjacent room.” The design of the ecat means that cooler water percolates out the pipe into the sink.

            The only report I viewed was very light on for details. Perhaps you can point me to one with some more data.

            This is the report I viewed…

            http://www.nyteknik.se/incoming/article3144960.ece/BINARY/Download+the+report+by+Kullander+and+Ess%C3%A9n+%28pdf%29.

        • LCD

          March 28, 2012 at 1:28 am

          So Curious, presumably Focardi and Levi are lying, naive, self-delusional, and/or bad with math.

          • CuriousChris

            March 28, 2012 at 9:02 am

            Actually I do believe they are implicit in the fraud. I have contacted both. Levi did not respond, Focardi did. but as soon as I asked for clarification he stopped replying.

            At first I believed they were fooled now I am pretty sure they are in on it. It is my belief that either or both of them could pressure Rossi into doing a proper test with proper calorimetry.

            So why don’t they?

            If Rossi proves to be the fraud he appears to be then they are jointly responsible for making many people believe in the Ecat.

            There is already a black cloud over Focardi. If we are to believe Piantelli then Focardi is a thief as well.

      • daniel maris

        March 27, 2012 at 9:14 am

        If he was scamming it would be much more likely to be through a hidden cable or bogus instrumentation, but that begs the question of why Rossis’ results weren’t a lot more impressive. Perhaps in that sense he is a supreme psychologist and knows how to work people’s minds but it seems a little unlikley. If you’re a scammer claiming to have the X device that solves the world’s energy problems why not make it appear that you have that in a clear manner through your scam? Odd.

    • CuriousChris

      March 27, 2012 at 8:18 am

      Sorry Dick I skimmed that article. its just a rehash of what Ian claimed.

      Referring to a neurologist as some sort of credible expert is like asking a butcher for advice on diamonds.

      While I am sure Ian is good at whatever he does for a day job if he is going to investigate something he should spend more than a few minutes coming up with one scenario and then trumpeting to the world as “The answer”.

      I personally don’t think Rossi did anything like that. It credits Rossi with more intelligence than I think he really has. He is a scammer and simply uses words to convince the gullible and hopefuls of what they “want” to hear. When someone wants to hear what you have to say then you can say anything and they will believe you.

      Rossi’s technique uses misplaced thermocouples wet steam and pipes which take away the excess water into the drain in right front of every ones eyes.

      Classic Scamming.

  5. spacegoat

    March 27, 2012 at 3:11 am

    ShaneDś posting about Mitsubishi and Toyota appear to be the first really new, exciting and positive data to appear since 1989. I am excluding Rossi/DGT blogging and excluding the numerous experiments that have been unreliable and small.
    @Admin
    probably deserves a new thread.

    • Shane D.

      March 27, 2012 at 3:57 am

      spacegoat,

      I find it exciting also. Unlike academicia, where scientists are employed to play with a chalk board, attend faculty tea parties and tease their hair into bloody messes to look Einstinian, in private industry they only hire scientists that can produce.

      If they don’t then it’s out the lab and onto the street. No tenure to protect them. Very harsh, but also very conducive to finding marketable products. So when they speak, the world tends to listen.

      There have been many other tantalizing reports for years of private industry delving into cold fusion, but none that I can think of so prominent as this…two great Japanese conglomerates coming forward in a public forum, in front of the CERN group and reporting positive results.

      If 120 CERN scientists can brave their colleagues wrath by appearing at a Cold Fusion Colloquium in the belly of the hot fusion beast, then surely they can also become objective adherents in the study.

      As the article says, it’s hard not to take notice when private industry steps forward like this. I agree.

      • Bob D

        March 27, 2012 at 10:58 am

        Shane,

        It is quite probable some country that has the most to gain will achieve whatever major breakthrough this world needs in the Energy field.

        It was a Japanese guy that FINALLY found the secret formula to white light LED’s. An interesting story about perseverance while his bosses thought he was wasting his time and their money.

        • spacegoat

          March 27, 2012 at 12:04 pm

          Bob D, please post a link. Sounds interesting.

          • Bob D

            March 28, 2012 at 6:47 am

            Spacegoat,

            Something like “White light LED breakthrough”

            should find something. The article I saw was in a mag a few yrs back.

  6. Dick Smith

    March 27, 2012 at 3:40 am

    But why would Mitsubishi be wasting their money when they can simply puchase a unit from Rossi?

    • C M Edwards 9%

      March 27, 2012 at 2:34 pm

      Because they can’t.

      Come on Dick, you know that! 🙂

  7. dsm

    March 27, 2012 at 3:46 am

    I am beginning to believe (well have done for a while) there are several people here who post, who might well be paid shills to shill one side of the discussions or the other. Others have raised this specter but now it seems real to me.

    On the one hand there appears to be those who post streams of politely worded statements and opinions that appear to be an attempt to wear others down.

    It also seems there may be shills who use the tactics of posting spin and fabrication when any important factual information is posted that they want to harm. The tactics of spin, fabrication and when needed insults get used in the hope the target gets so frustrated that the discussion degenerates into slanging and moves away from the important information originally posted. Then the shill can step back and point the finger at the target as being ungentlemanly.

    It does seem that there are folk here who have no interest at all in the validity of some of the information. And it seems this applies to both extremes of the discussions.

    Just a 0.2 cents worth

    D

    • JKW

      March 27, 2012 at 5:45 am

      I think that whatever is posted in this forum (and similar ones) has negligible impact on progress (or lack thereof) in LERN research. So who pays the shills? What is the return on investment?

      • dsm

        March 27, 2012 at 9:24 am

        information about who holds what patents is very significant as to where this could lead

        For example if someone was hell bent on trying to damage any evidence that could harm Rossi’s claims it could be used in a challenge in court over prior art

        just some thoughts

        DSM

      • Peter Roe

        March 27, 2012 at 10:09 am

        Given the trillions of dollars at risk when the first ‘new energy’ source hits the streets (whether CF or something else) the ‘ROI’ is simply the effect on public perception. Large corporations think nothing of spending tens, maybe hundreds of millions on planting their own version of reality in the minds of the masses through ‘news management’, editorialising, direct advertising and the purchase of polititians, so spending a few dollars on hiring some shills represents a trivial cost and a relatively huge return on investment.

        If blogs such as this one were allowed to operate unhindered and as intended, casual readers would engage with the story and their expectations would be raised. They might even start demanding systematic research and a halt to new nuclear build in the meantime. Instead they see the negativism and the endless accusations of ‘fraud’, ‘scam’ etc. and the equally endless refutations of the same debating points and half truths raised over and over. So many who might have become involved simply leave instead – as intended.

        Literally every day that the moment when nuclear power station building is stopped, and the oil juggernaut grinds to a halt, can be delayed, represents another few hundred billion in the pockets of the energy corporations. So finding a few people who are more than willing to act as trolls and earn a bit on the side at the same time, is a completely logical step.

        It is literally inconceivable that those whose interests are threatened would not use every single tool available to them to try to damage the progress of an energy source that will finish them, no matter how unquantifiable the effects of any given tool might be, and how small the potential effect.

        • Bob D

          March 27, 2012 at 11:06 am

          Peter R,

          While you are on the subject, if there are any special interests that fund shills or trolls I will offer my services in that venture.

          • Peter Roe

            March 27, 2012 at 11:28 am

            I’m afraid you’ll need to ask milstone, thicket, popeye, jami et alia about the current market for employment in this area and for any useful contacts. They’ll probably tell you they do it for their own amusement though.

          • John Milstone

            March 27, 2012 at 11:48 am

            They’ll probably tell you they do it for their own amusement though.

            Yup, it’s a hobby.

            As far as I know, no one is paying people to post in these various forums. If you know of someone who is, please give me their contact information. I would be delighted to convert a hobby into an income-producing business.

            In reality, the belief that “big oil” or “big government” or “Illuminati” are somehow suppressing LENR throughout the world is even more paranoid and delusional than the belief that LENR is somehow the world’s salvation, even though no one has ever been able to use it for any practical purpose at all.

          • Thicket

            March 27, 2012 at 11:57 am

            Peter Roe

            You’re the one who thinks skeptics are paid. Are you now telling us that you just made that up? You have no evidence? You count on the skeptics to support your delusional fantasy?

            I for one welcome our new reptilian overlords, praised be their names. I have reported your destructive behavior to them. They have granted me the knowledge that you will one of the first to be assimilated and digested.

            *Thicket sneaks up on Peter Roe, turns his tin-foil hat switch to OFF and sneaks away cackling under his breath.*

          • Peter Roe

            March 27, 2012 at 2:10 pm

            Milstone and Thicket: I was giving you the benefit of the doubt by assuming some purpose to your repetitious negative posting, maintained for over a year, as the alternative is that you are loonies. However I would have to admit that Thicket’s apparent belief in reptilian overlords does seem to support the second possibility.

        • spacegoat

          March 27, 2012 at 12:32 pm

          High confidence fact:
          Private interests in 147 companies control 80% of the worlds economy:
          http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21228354.500-revealed–the-capitalist-network-that-runs-the-world.html

          High confidence fact:
          Politicians are bought by these private interests.
          (No reference, this is self evident)

          High confidence fact:
          Main stream media are dying a death.
          (Look up recent Financial Times report)

          ==> private interests (not lizards) with an agenda at odds to the common good, are clearly using the new media (internet sites) for promotion. Blog posts are part of this.

          That said I do not believe posters here are in this fraternity. Though I did at one time have my doubts about the prolific popeye.

          Overall, this sites content is too intelligent (= unpopular) to attract the interest of paid bloggers. (Thanks to the leadership of Paul)

  8. Jami

    March 27, 2012 at 7:01 am

    “There have been many other tantalizing reports for years of private industry delving into cold fusion, but none that I can think of so prominent as this…two great Japanese conglomerates coming forward in a public forum, in front of the CERN group and reporting positive results.”

    You’re at least one (Mitsubishi) or two (Toyota) decades late with that revelation. Iwamura published back in 2001. Higashiyama followed a year later. There has been a lot of controversy about their conclusions (Krivit wrote a lot about that) even within the LENR community. Toyota has been on and off on LENR. Since Fleischmann’s retirement back in the mid 90s they haven’t shut it down entirely but fundung is nothing anywhere near what it was.

  9. Jami

    March 27, 2012 at 7:10 am

    “I backed Elon Musk, correctly, against sceptics when he first set up. I didn’t understand rocketry but I read a lot about his ideas and formed a judgement.”

    Yeah, well – look at it this way: You could have tossed a coin. That would have given you a 50% chance, too. I don’t know about Elon Musk but you’re wrong about LENR.

    • Ransompw

      March 27, 2012 at 1:37 pm

      So your flip came out differnet then his or are we to assume you actually know what you are talking about?

  10. georgehants

    March 27, 2012 at 8:11 am

    From EcoFriend.
    The Big Question Will cold fusion really end world’s energy crisis
    Andrea Rossi is set to prove to the world that cold fusion is indeed a viable and reliable power source which can power our homes in the years to come He …
    http://www.ecofriend.com/big-question-cold-fusion-worlds-energy-crisis.html

  11. georgehants

    March 27, 2012 at 8:14 am

    ScienceDaily: Your source for the latest research news and science breakthroughs — updated daily
    Does the Brain ‘Remember’ Antidepressants? More Proof for the Power of Placebo
    March 26, 2012 — Using a placebo pill appearing identical to the real thing, researchers have found that how the brain responds to antidepressant medication may be influenced by its remembering past antidepressant …
    http://www.sciencedaily.com/news/

    • CuriousChris

      March 27, 2012 at 10:22 am

      Geez George give up will you. You keep up this placebo mantra. Its old. its science, it was first used medically in the 1700’s

      You rant on about this so much it would appear you are brainwashed. This sort of thinking is common amongst religious zealots. An idea is sold to them so strongly they cannot and will not accept the idea is wrong, even when faced with overwhelming proof.

      If this same zealotry is applied to things like the ecat, It is no wonder you cannot face the facts.

      So yes if you have had an antidepressant and you are given a placebo and told its an antidepressant, it could mimic the original antidepressant simply because your remember what the original antidepressant was like.

      • georgehants

        March 27, 2012 at 10:46 am

        Morning Chris, if you judge believing in the Truth to be brainwashed then I agree I am.
        Please name one fact I am not facing.
        I believe that fair and unbiased research into the placebo that has been used for thousands of years by Which-doctors and Sharmen etc. could prove it’s veracity.
        If proven it could save much money and unwanted side-effects etc.
        Please move to your question and answer challenge and lets see what you are made of.

        • CuriousChris

          March 27, 2012 at 10:07 pm

          Facts
          1/ Science recognises the placebo effect
          2/ Science particularly medical science uses it constantly
          3/ The effect is so well known and so strong if you do not allow for it in scientific tests your test is thrown out without consideration.

          Just some of the facts you have refused to acknowledge in previous posts.

  12. JKW

    March 27, 2012 at 8:49 am

    “Andrea Rossi is set to prove to the world that cold fusion is indeed a viable and reliable power source”
    “Using a placebo pill appearing identical to the real thin”

    – Rossi is a placebo pill for a viable and reliable power source.

    • spacegoat

      March 27, 2012 at 12:47 pm

      Thanks Ryan.
      Yet another piste towards fusion, running incidentally because it is being used to test weapons.

      … But we were assured by fellow posters that all fusion pistes were being properly managed and funded.

      Not

  13. georgehants

    March 27, 2012 at 9:18 am

    Is there one skeptic willing to have a clean question and answer debate with me on the benefits of irrational skepticism.

    • CuriousChris

      March 27, 2012 at 10:23 am

      is there a believer who will have a clean question and answer debate about irrational belief?

      • C M Edwards 9%

        March 27, 2012 at 7:41 pm

        It’s easy to set up a return matrix.

        LENR has three choices: TRUE(T), FALSE(F), and SCAM(S).
        SCAM is worse than FALSE because it involves additional losses beyond the simple presence/absence of LENR.

        The subject has three strategies: DENY(A), DOUBT(B), BELIEVE(C).
        DOUBT is a variable strategy based on evidence. The other strategies are independent of the evidence (“pathological”).

        ___T__F__S__Outcome
        A_-1___0__0__-1
        B_0___0__0___0
        C_1___-1__-2__-2

        The believers fall hard if it’s a scam, but hopping on the bandwagon early reaps benefits if it’s true that the denier and the doubter miss out on by sitting tight. The believers lose their outlay in all cases, though, so they only get a net positive return for real LENR. They don’t rake in extra rewards after the big reveal, either

        The denier gets rewarded neither before nor after the big reveal, and they miss out on the benefits later – they never get on board. But with no outlay in any case, they suffer nothing if there’s no LENR.

        The doubter also suffers nothing if there’s no LENR, but they lose their outlay if it’s real and get no reward from early investment. The doubter only benefits from real LENR if they immediately turn around and invest after the big reveal.

        Thus, with no net loses, the best strategy is to be a Doubter who’s ready to defect to the Believers at a moment’s notice.

        • CuriousChris

          March 27, 2012 at 10:04 pm

          So fence sitting it is?

          • C M Edwards 9%

            March 28, 2012 at 2:32 pm

            I like it here on the fence. The view is good.

            I try not to badmouth the Believers too much, though. For all I know, I could be one tomorrow.

        • dsm

          March 27, 2012 at 10:43 pm

          LOL – Like it 🙂

          Looks like Scientific approach to religion

          Thanks – I’ll buy the conclusion 🙂

          DSM

  14. georgehants

    March 27, 2012 at 9:59 am

    From Facebook with thanks, sorry no link given.
    Giuliano Bettini
    Last night Italian television, in prime time, he again briefly recalled Cold Fusion.
    Under “Voyager”, RAI-2 on, the Celani’s conference at CERN was cited with great emphasis. Particularly they said: “The Cold Fusion has officially landed at CERN.”
    This is important IMO because it has reached millions of Italian viewers.

    • John Milstone

      March 27, 2012 at 11:53 am

      The Italian TV program “Voyager” covers all sorts of silly things. The fact that they are covering Rossi does not add any credibility at all to his scam.

      • georgehants

        March 27, 2012 at 11:59 am

        Morning John, keep it up your continual ranting just shows open-minded fair people the irrationality of main-line science acting like you.
        Yes main-line science does in places act like this man.
        Do any scientists wish to be associated with his or his comrades views.

  15. georgehants

    March 27, 2012 at 10:26 am

    Is somebody interested in Cold Fusion willing to research every paper and opinion from main-line science condemning and failing to replicate the Cold Fusion effect.
    Science needs everyone of these reports and the individuals concerned named so that if the effect is confirmed or rebuked their history is available for everyone to see.
    No hiding, no denials, no fooling the public, just the Truth.

    • Ivy Matt

      March 27, 2012 at 9:18 pm

      Why are you so concerned about the names of the individuals involved? Do you think there should be some sort of punishment for failure to replicate the cold fusion effect?

      • Quax

        March 28, 2012 at 3:03 am

        Burn’ em at the stake!

  16. georgehants

    March 27, 2012 at 10:29 am

    CuriousChris Reply
    “is there a believer who will have a clean question and answer debate about irrational belief?”

    Chris, I happily volunteer, I am not a true believer in anything but a fair optimist but I hope that will do for you.

    Please you begin, what is your question.

    • CuriousChris

      March 27, 2012 at 10:09 pm

      If I believed I’d get a rational response from you George might consider it.

      But look above at the placebo effect post from you above for just one example of your irrationality.

      Perhaps your doctor has you on a placebo and its not working?

      • dsm

        March 27, 2012 at 10:45 pm

        Asperger’s syndrome – be kind !

        D

        • Quax

          March 28, 2012 at 3:11 am

          My boy has a mild form of Asperger, he is in most circumstance hyper-rational way beyond what’s normal. He is only throwing fits when something is not fitting his routine.

          Whatever George has it’s not Aspergers.

          As there has been the idea of paid shill’s thrown about I can honestly say that nothing turns me more off LENR than the behavior of believer like George. This is of course irrational and so I try to filter this out.

          Still given the effect, I think the oil and gas industry should sponsor him for his antics.

          • dsm

            March 28, 2012 at 5:29 am

            Quax
            My dearest young daughter has Aspergers bless her soul. Poor darling has little ability to understand other people.s feelings but is a loveable girl even if she can’t retain friends.

            Her high points are a great sense of rythm even if she was terrible at sports. Also she has a photographic memory of hit tunes & tv show themes. Rarely ever misses one.

            D

  17. John Milstone

    March 27, 2012 at 12:02 pm

    FYI, Krivit has a new blog posting, which demonstrates that in Rossi’s April 28, 2011 “test”, the output temperature measurements confirm that Rossi was changing the power level going in to the E-Cat just as Mats Lewan was recording the steam coming out of the outlet hose. This was just prior to Lewan catching Rossi’s hand on the power control in that same video.

    http://newenergytimes.com/v2/news/2012/Proof-of-Rossis-Deception.shtml

    • spacegoat

      March 27, 2012 at 1:07 pm

      Wow. Rossie Says confidence down to 1%

      How anyone can read this NET report and the previous one about ARś career, and maintain a higher than 50% confidence is beyond me.

      If people are fair minded, they would agree that these reports cast grave doubt.

      Only hope is that AR is a bumbler, unable to perfect the effect, but after the divorce, DGT got lucky and developed something useful.

      But what would then be ARś angle? Bookrights on a global deception? Playing for time to properly develop something?

      • John Milstone

        March 27, 2012 at 1:38 pm

        But what would then be AR’s angle? Bookrights on a global deception? Playing for time to properly develop something?

        Why make it more complex than it needs to be? His “angle” is most likely getting investors to give him money without having to actually do anything beyond running a charade. After all, he has publicly stated that he had sold franchises in “every country” other than Russia and Japan.

        • georgehants

          March 27, 2012 at 1:40 pm

          John, you really are not up to the job. please ask mousetrap to replace you with somebody with a little more ability.
          You are making fools of the irrationals.

    • Ransompw

      March 27, 2012 at 1:34 pm

      John:

      That is really weak even for Krivit. If he is saying the data suggests some change in power by Rossi for a short interval while Lewan filmed the hose, then Lewan’s test which saw over half of the water vaporized confirms Rossi’s device. Because the rest of the time it was allegedly operating at a similar level.

      I think it is much more likely that by removing the hose from under the water a change occured back in the ecat that would account for a subtle change.

      10 to 20 seconds is not going to effect the vaporized steam.

      • John Milstone

        March 27, 2012 at 1:42 pm

        I think it is much more likely that by removing the hose from under the water a change occured back in the ecat that would account for a subtle change.

        The article addresses that point. Removing the hose from the water would reduce any back-pressure, which would, if anything, lower the temperature.

        10 to 20 seconds is not going to effect the vaporized steam.

        Sure it would, if the water were already just below the boiling point. Keep in mind that the temperature being measured was the outpouring water, not the temperature of the heating element.

        • georgehants

          March 27, 2012 at 1:45 pm

          John, that was all covered in 1910 please keep up with events or are you still maintaining a flat earth.

        • Ransompw

          March 27, 2012 at 3:32 pm

          John:

          10 or 20 seconds of increased energy supplied is not going to have a signifcant effect on a two hour test. Come on.

          • John Milstone

            March 27, 2012 at 4:02 pm

            If the E-Cat wasn’t turning all of the water into steam, then Rossi’s claims of over-unity are wrong.

            And, what we see is that Rossi apparently had to “goose” (increase) the power output for the few seconds when the output steam/water was being observed.

            Rossi’s behavior, the temperature measurements and the fact that the quantity/quality of the steam being dumped into a bucket are all consistent with a device that was not producing significant amounts of steam, except for the few seconds when Lewan inspected the output. And, that happens to be exactly when Rossi fiddled with the heater controller.

            This highlights the earlier question of why, if the E-Cat were producing 100% steam, it nevertheless emptied into the bucket as water?

          • Ransompw

            March 27, 2012 at 4:21 pm

            First, I never said Rossi claims of Overunity were right. That is a red herring.

            Rossi goosed the power for a few seconds for what purpose? It could not have changed to overall 2 hour result. To show a little more steam on video, BS. It could not have happened that fast.

            Your point that it was not producing a significant quantity of steam except for a few seconds is inconsistent with reality and is a fantasy. You don’t see half of the water disappear unless it was producing a significant quantity of steam for over two hours. I dare you to do a simple test by barely producing a quantity of steam running it through a hose and into a bucket of standing water allowed to cool by ambient air and come away with only half the water you input ino to the system.

            You won’t do that very very simple test because you full well know the result.

            If you can’t make a better argument about the April 28 test then that please don’t bother. It is insulting.

          • CuriousChris

            March 28, 2012 at 10:49 pm

            It requires barely a second to turn hot water into steam. especially a very small volume of hot water.

            It does take a fair bit of energy though. Turning a heater up is one way to supply that energy.

            Every one seems to forget Rossi leads people to the ammeter and displays the current. no one sits there and watches it. So for most of the two hours he could be running much higher current.

            Essen and Kullander they could have got distracted while Rossi turned up the heat and that caused the kink in the heat graph.

            The power input needs to be graphed. Not a simple ammeter. hell he may have even got smart enough to use the earth lead. but I seriously doubt that.

    • Peter Roe

      March 27, 2012 at 8:54 pm

      John, its odd but you forgot to mention this from Mats Lewan commenting on his first video (as did Mitch Randall):

      “Then another strange data: A similar but steady increase in temperature between 14 and 14:30, up to 100.8 degrees, with no apparent reason (I’m quite convinced Rossi didn’t touch the equipment during this interval). Then suddenly decrease to 100.6 at 14:30.”

  18. John Milstone

    March 27, 2012 at 12:05 pm

    So, have we found any signs of Miley’s world-shattering confirmation that he has a LENR device that can produce 350 Watts forever? The one that supposedly is ready to be used as a power source for interplanetary space probes?

    Or is that a negative data point that we are going to ignore, since it doesn’t support conclusion we want?

    • AB

      March 27, 2012 at 12:37 pm

      Admin, could you please show some spine and remove obnoxious trolls such as John Milstone and Jami?

      • georgehants

        March 27, 2012 at 1:07 pm

        AB, Agreed but in a way it is good to keep them around to show scientists how much they are being led by the same type of people on the scientific administration.
        Any scientist who now cannot look at the question, should UFO’s or the Placebo Effect be as openly and unbiasedly researched as Cold Fusion is being as silly as these irrational skeptics so willing to display their irrationality for us all to see.
        Any scientist who says Cold Fusion should not be researched with appropriate funds and manpower is a disgrace to their profession.

        • spacegoat

          March 27, 2012 at 1:15 pm

          George, I would value your opinion on the two NET reports referred to above. Play the game and look at this evidence.

          • georgehants

            March 27, 2012 at 1:20 pm

            spacegoat, I am always happy to play any game as long as it is based on TRUTH, Logic and Common Sense.
            To complicated to answer your question please dilute to a single question.
            Thank you

          • spacegoat

            March 27, 2012 at 1:47 pm

            George, after having read the NET reports on ARś career and alleged demonstration fraud, how is your confidence affected in AR Cold Fusion?

      • spacegoat

        March 27, 2012 at 1:13 pm

        MaryYugo obviously transformed her identity, with the press of a few keys in the box marked Name.
        What makes you think Admin can remove obnoxious trolls?

        • John Milstone

          March 27, 2012 at 1:25 pm

          I’m just asking a question.

          If you are afraid to face the fact that Miley was a no-show, that’s your problem.

          • georgehants

            March 27, 2012 at 1:30 pm

            John, you really are not up to the job. please ask mousetrap to replace you with somebody with a little more ability.
            You are making fools of the irrationals.

          • AB

            March 27, 2012 at 1:33 pm

            There are no reports on Miley’s event yet.

            That doesn’t stop you from spinning your own condescending narrative on it that marks you as a troll.

            All you do on this site is trying to drag down conversations into the ridicule and enticing verbal fighting.

          • spacegoat

            March 27, 2012 at 1:44 pm

            Jhon M, I was merely commenting on the futility of banning aliases. No offence intended.

          • John Milstone

            March 27, 2012 at 1:46 pm

            georgehants, you keep repeating yourself.

            That’s a sign of oncoming senility. You should see your doctor and have yourself tested for Alzheimer’s disease.

          • Methusela

            March 28, 2012 at 6:42 am

            @John: Pot, Kettle…

        • AB

          March 27, 2012 at 1:31 pm

          You’re not suggesting to surrender to the trolls aren’t you? WordPress offers tools to manage situations like this. A regular house cleaning though temporary IP-based bans and permanent bans of IPs of sites that offer anonymous browsing services will keep the less sophisticated trolls at bay and force the more sophisticated trolls to change their tune.

          • spacegoat

            March 27, 2012 at 1:42 pm

            AB,
            Maybe some language in this thread is impolite and undesirable, but it comes from all quarters. I believe trolls and the stupid are best left in the open. Here, I am not referring to anybody on this site.

            Maybe cleaning temp IPś is feasible for large sites, but our Admin has a day job.

          • JNewman

            March 27, 2012 at 1:53 pm

            There is no doubt that this would be a far better website if it only permitted comments by people who agree with AB.

          • Peter Roe

            March 27, 2012 at 2:34 pm

            @JNewman I want to agree but obviously can’t! Very amusing ‘catch-22’.

          • JNewman

            March 27, 2012 at 4:27 pm

            Speaking of amusing Catch-22’s, George is desperate to debate irrationals.

      • Quax

        March 28, 2012 at 3:16 am

        Admin could you then please also remove people like George.

  19. georgehants

    March 27, 2012 at 1:10 pm

    From Facebook with thanks.
    Bas Elshof
    Next scientific venue:
    “10th International Workshop on Anomalies in Hydrogen Loaded Metals”
    10-14 April 2012 near Sienna.
    One of the organizers and sponsor is Francesco Piantelli and his company Nichenergy srl.
    http://www.iscmns.org/work10/

  20. georgehants

    March 27, 2012 at 1:55 pm

    spacegoat, you asked.
    George, after having read the NET reports on ARś career and alleged demonstration fraud, how is your confidence affected in AR Cold Fusion?

    I do not care one iota about Rossi’s career.
    He either has something substantial or he does not.
    In the meantime I will not abuse him or call him a liar, I will wait for the situation to clear.
    If he is a liar then it will become clear in time and those who wish can attack him with some justification, if they so wish can do so, I will just feel sorry for a sad human being.
    Prejudgement in any situation is in error.

    • spacegoat

      March 27, 2012 at 2:43 pm

      We all judge and discriminate a thousand times a minute. It is biology. You obviously wish to keep your views private for some reason. However I am sure you would advise your granny about bogus meter readers entering her house.
      Same applies here. We and the non-posting readership are not robots. Nobody is asking you to call anybody a liar. You probably participated in Quax survey. I am simply asking if there is a change in the light of the 2 NET reports.

      To quote an artists song title I am currently listening to .. you appear to be a Blossom Tree Optimist. (the first name calling I have done. But I hope it is received positively) 🙂

      • georgehants

        March 27, 2012 at 2:53 pm

        You are making assumptions and trying to say things I have not said.
        You are therefore an irrational.
        Put any clear question and I will answer to the best of my ability.
        For you to irrationally make assumptions of what I am saying is clearly a waste of many words, or trying to create an illusion of my supposed frame of mind is not only irrational but close to insanity.
        If you want the Truth then ask your question.
        The Truth is much simpler.

        • spacegoat

          March 27, 2012 at 3:54 pm

          I post a reasonable and short question as you asked and you repeat your stock reply to unwanted questions – the mantra about Rationalism, Truth and Logic.

          You remind me of the android Data on Star Trek, on a bad day when his emotion chip was playing up.

          There were two assumptions:
          1. “You obviously wish to keep your views private (Clause 1) for some reason (Clause 2).”
          Clause 1 is true because you decline to give them. Regarding Clause 2, the reason given “Prejudgement in any situation is in error.” is just some more android-speak.

          2.”However I am sure you would advise your granny about bogus meter readers entering her house.”
          If this is false then more evidence of robotic nature.

          • georgehants

            March 27, 2012 at 4:07 pm

            spacegoat, your question was —-
            George, after having read the NET reports on ARś career and alleged demonstration fraud, how is your confidence affected in AR Cold Fusion?
            I replied —-
            I do not care one iota about Rossi’s career.
            He either has something substantial or he does not.
            In the meantime I will not abuse him or call him a liar, I will wait for the situation to clear.
            If he is a liar then it will become clear in time and those who wish can attack him with some justification, if they so wish can do so, I will just feel sorry for a sad human being.
            Prejudgement in any situation is in error.—
            You have since moved off at a tangent of irratinal tripe.

            If you wish to disagree or argue, my reply is above, please do so keeping just slightly to my reply and not veering of at some tangent more akin to life on Mars.
            Thank you,

    • RonB

      March 27, 2012 at 3:15 pm

      George,
      Please correct me if I’m wrong but I think that Rossi himself said that he had “fooled” DGT by giving them false information at some point, if this is true, my momma would call that a lie.

      I’m with you though, I am happy to wait and see how this all turns out. As for his checkered past, I’ve never heard Rossi’s side of the story.
      Maybe he’s made mistakes in the past but in my book mistakes are good.

      “He who does nothing never makes mistakes.”

      • georgehants

        March 27, 2012 at 3:25 pm

        RonB, thank you for a rare sensible question.
        Rossi either has a working device or he has not.
        I will not abuse him or disbelieve him until proven false.
        In his isolated position human lies, exaggerations etc are to be expected.
        I will not prejudge with Rossi or any other claim.
        Would I invest, NO not without being shown to my satisfaction a working device.
        If he is a liar it does not prove another claim is a lie, all must be seen individually, obviously.
        “He who does nothing never makes mistakes.”

        • RonB

          March 27, 2012 at 3:47 pm

          George,
          To my way of thinking, there’s plenty of reasons for Rossi to be doing what he’s doing.(maybe not exactly in the way he is doing it) – I mean, you’ve got to love a man who could come up with the word “Clownery” lol

          To be honest, if/when/what Rossi is doing is of lesser interest to me than the discussion of the whole extra heat from a Ni/H reaction.
          To me that’s just phenomenal.

          I’ve been busting my butt trying to figure out how it might be possible.

          One curious clue that I’ve found is that in Piantelli’s report about the temps involved in his Hi/H2 reaction is that it’s very near the curie point of Ni as well as the annealing point of Ni.
          Depending on the purity of the Ni, the grain growth will be different and occur differently.

          1. Grain growth in 99.5% nickel is commonly controlled by diffusion in bulk in
          contrast to the pure nickel, where some type of interface diffusion operates.

          http://www.metal2012.com/files/proceedings/metal_09/Lists/Papers/086.pdf

          Maybe a pink X, not sure though.

          I’m still thinking it would be so awesome if metallic hydrogen was being formed in the bowels of the setup.

          • georgehants

            March 27, 2012 at 4:00 pm

            Ron, we must always bare in mind that Rossi et al could be frauds.
            The science of Cold Fusion is exciting to any true scientist who is not living to an irrational agenda.
            Some Senior scientists do not want their life’s work of preaching that the Laws of Nature are cast in stone and immutable blown to hell.
            Some, work in hot fusion and would rather see millions die than themselves have to move to another laboratory.
            Some are just dead-brained irrational skeptics.
            If anything good is to come of Cold Fusion it must be that science becomes responsible and honest.
            Throw away this insane attitude that something is not possible.
            The World is Quantum and totally unknown.

          • Ivy Matt

            March 27, 2012 at 10:00 pm

            In the meantime I will not abuse him or call him a liar, I will wait for the situation to clear.

            I will not abuse him or disbelieve him until proven false.

            I will not prejudge with Rossi or any other claim.

            Some, work in hot fusion and would rather see millions die than themselves have to move to another laboratory.

            Refraining from abuse and prejudice may be a reasonable stance to take, but you maybe could be a little more consistent.

  21. georgehants

    March 27, 2012 at 2:04 pm

    John Milstone, would you like to participate in my challenge to any skeptic for a simple clear question and answer session to debate the justification of irrational skepticism.
    CuriousChris has bottled out and done a runner. so be it, so long as he doesn’t try to deny his lack of balls.
    Paul will confirm that I claim the scientific discovery that no skeptic will debate and answer simple questions.
    Have you got the balls or are you another mouth without content.

    • georgehants

      March 27, 2012 at 2:40 pm

      John Milstone now appears to have done a runner.
      I repeat no irrational will get involved in a simple question and answer debate.
      Is there any scientist on these pages who would like to participate to defend main-line sciences stance on Cold Fusion.

      • John Milstone

        March 27, 2012 at 4:07 pm

        George, believe it or not, I have other things to do than to follow every little silly pronouncement you place on this forum.

        I’m not interested in debating you because you don’t debate, you pontificate.

        You would, as you’ve done dozens (hundreds?) of times before, drag the discussion to your other pseudo-science beliefs. I’m not interested in debating holistic medicine, UFOs or Bigfoot.

        I’ve been advised several times to just ignore you when you get in your manic phase, as you are now. I think I’ll take that advise.

        Have a nice day.

        • georgehants

          March 27, 2012 at 4:12 pm

          John use any excuse you find that helps you coverup the Truth.
          You are a gutless wonder like all irrational skeptics who shake in their boots at the thought of a fair question and answer debate.
          Everyone has seen your worth, now be sensible and go hide in the shrubbery.
          If you wish to prove yourself lets have a fair simple question and answer debate on Cold Fusion or any subject you wish.

      • CuriousChris

        March 27, 2012 at 10:12 pm

        Actually I was celebrating my Wife’s birthday. But hey you think whatever it is you think.

  22. Schist

    March 27, 2012 at 2:12 pm

    Thicket Says:
    “Part of a lawyer’s job and training is to present and debate a case, regardless of whether he/she thinks the case is valid. It’s often a matter of Orwellian double-think. The lawyer presents the case as persuasively as possible, despite having no personal conviction that the case is valid.”

    Would it be worth it to a law school to keep lists of oddball forums like this one, and assign students to take part in the debates?

    If that is the case with Ransompw, acting here as a believer, does he have a counterpart acting as a skeptic?

    It may be that several law schools are assigning pairs of students here, and that the majority of posters are arguing with other would-be lawyers.

    • georgehants

      March 27, 2012 at 2:16 pm

      Schist, as long as in either case their brief is to come to an honest and truthful conclusion then much can be learnt.

    • Ransompw

      March 27, 2012 at 3:11 pm

      To set the record straight, I am not a would be lawyer. I have been practicing for over 30 years. Second, I don’t to my knowledge have a counterpart posting as a skeptic, although maybe one exists and is not fully disclosed. I think pigeon holing people is inappropriate. After all we all are “believers” in something. So labeling me a “Believer” is a little off the mark. I am not a skeptic however, in that I don’t approach issues from the negative side.

      To me it is not surprising that LENR has been slow to develop for three reasons, first, the climate created after 1989 discouraged people from investing effort in this area. Second, most of the experimentation was using Palladium in heavy water and electrolysis. Based on recent developments I suspect that will prove to be a poor way of stimulating the reaction. Third, we are just learning the science of nanotechnology and I think this is likely the playground of LENR.

      So all the posts by Popeye and others citing the poor progress as evidence against LENR is to my way of thinking really weak. I think progress will accelerate as we learn more about the reactions at the Nano level. That is why I am a so called “Believer”. I think we are just learning the use and control of physics at the atomic level and personally I think we can’t imagine where that knowledge will lead.

      Rossi very well could have a LENR reactor but I doubt he can control it and I have even more doubt he will develop it into a commercial product.

  23. georgehants

    March 27, 2012 at 2:21 pm

    Nearly time for the irrationals to start calling foul.
    The rationals are making to much sense (clearly not allowed) ban the Rationals, don’t listen to the rationals.
    the World is flat, science never makes mistakes, Rossi is lying.
    Never look at Truth, just deny everything and progress will stagnate. Wonderful.

  24. georgehants

    March 27, 2012 at 2:25 pm

    Lerner’s Focus Fusion Meets the Boron Fuel Line
    Dr. Eric Lerner’s Focus Fusion machine at Lawrenceville Plasma Physics (LPP) in New Jersey is heating and confining an ionized gas at record temperatures equivalent to over 1.8 billion degrees C, as described in a paper published March 23rd in Physics of Plasmas, the most often cited journal devoted to plasma physics published by the American Institute of Physics.
    http://newenergyandfuel.com/http:/newenergyandfuel/com/2012/03/27/lerners-focus-fusion-meets-the-boron-fuel-line/

    • Ivy Matt

      March 27, 2012 at 10:12 pm

      They must have copied Rossi’s patent. How else could they have achieved this type of result so quickly?

  25. georgehants

    March 27, 2012 at 2:30 pm

    From Vortex.
    [Vo]:the desktop supernova
    Axil Axil
    Mon, 26 Mar 2012 23:28:48 -0700
    *From the PieEconomics web site as follows:*
    *2/22/12: A new NanoSprire **press
    release*
    * states: “Nanospire has announced that its investigative study on fusion
    created by cavitation in water has come to an end.” It’s good that they
    have stopped testing for now. During the nuclear fusion reaction that
    occurred when they did their test, “Hundreds of wave trains and vortices
    appeared everywhere and are permanently burned into walls, objects and
    trees surrounding the lab.” [See Krivit’s second link, above.] Well,
    according to Google maps (25 Jesse Daniel DR, Buxton, ME) the Buxton
    Vehicle Registration is located about five hundred feet from the lab, so I
    hope none of the people getting their cars registered got irradiated when
    the desktop supernova occurred.*
    http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg64495.html

  26. georgehants

    March 27, 2012 at 3:07 pm

    Andrea Rossi
    March 27th, 2012 at 8:13 AM
    Dear Antonella:
    We know perfectly who some puppeteers are: our intelligence system is working together with the Law Firm we have engaged for this issue. We are collecting and analyzing every single phrase the Puppets, Snakes (and Clowns) are publishing in paper press and in Internet. We prefer not to sue puppets and puppeteers ( and Clowns) so far because we will be stronger when our working plants will be public: at that point we will give to the Court all the necessary evidence to win both on criminal and in civilistic fields this battle. For now we are just preparing all the necessary publications, comments, evidence, documents, addresses, etc, etc. I start the battles when I am sure to win. So far they had the sensation that our Group can be libelled for free: it is not so. All the proceeds that we will earn from these trials will be donated to families we have already selected that need money to cure the cancer of their children.
    If you are interested to this issue or have information for us, please contact
    info@leonardocorp1996.com
    Thank you for your kind attention,
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • spacegoat

      March 27, 2012 at 4:05 pm

      georgehants
      If a paedophile sex offender moved next door to your home offered to walk your 7 year old daughter to school I am sure (yes! an assumption) you would not maintain “Prejudgement in any situation is in error.”

      According to those NET reports ARś behavior is very very suspect. To maintain a haughty silence is laughable.

      And how about your non-evidence based assumption that the irrationals have run off from debate? Please chastise yourself.

      • AB

        March 27, 2012 at 4:15 pm

        Your comparison is lame. Rossi had problems with the law but was absolved of major charges in the end. So you’re comparing a criminal with a major offense (and a morally abhorrent one) to someone who is guilty of some tax related offenses.

        As for NET, Krivit is increasingly desperate to trash Rossi’s reputation. I have not had the time to properly review his latest smear piece but the ones before were worthless (but effective in influencing the casual reader). Krivit stopped making useful articles on Rossi last summer, his commentary on steam was appropriate.

        • John Milstone

          March 27, 2012 at 5:15 pm

          Rossi had problems with the law but was absolved of major charges in the end.

          Do you have any actual evidence to support that?

          In particular, his 8-year prison sentence for bankruptcy fraud in 2000 appears to have never been absolved. If you have any actual evidence that it was, I would love to see it.

          And, no, Rossi’s self-serving web site is not evidence.

      • georgehants

        March 27, 2012 at 4:22 pm

        spacegoat, you asked me a question I replied, please keep to my reply or clearly ask another question.
        After that you are talking such rubbish that it not worth answering.
        if you wish to join me in a simple question and answer debate that the irrationals have run away from please be my guest.
        I wait for your first question on a new comment.

  27. georgehants

    March 27, 2012 at 4:18 pm

    Come on you irrationals your fighting to convince scientists that dead-brained denial of any subject that is taboo against established Dogma should be hidden.
    You are losing the debate, all the irrationals run away when faced with a simple question and answer session.
    Your philosophy is at stake, at least lets have five or six of you ganging up on me, two is far to easy.

  28. georgehants

    March 27, 2012 at 4:30 pm

    JNewman commented —
    Speaking of amusing Catch-22′s, George is desperate to debate irrationals.

    John you tried to hide well up the page but you have been found,
    Are you ready to join me in a simple question and answer debate that every irrational before you has run away from.

    • JNewman

      March 27, 2012 at 4:40 pm

      If by “John”, you are speaking to me, you have misspoken. It is not my name.

      You wish to debate with an irrational. I wish to debate with a complete crackpot. Why don’t we both agree that neither of us has found a suitable opponent?

      • georgehants

        March 27, 2012 at 4:48 pm

        JNewman, sorry about the John. what could I have been thinking of Ha. Ha.
        We all take it that abuse is your excuse for backing out of a simple question and answer debate, you are the 6th. irrational to bottle out.
        I think having showed like the rest of your ilk that everything you say is bullshit and you are afraid to put your Logic Truth and Common Sense to the test you had best retire to the Irrationals alcove.
        Please don’t come on preaching your distorted wisdom again, you are a proven farce,

        • JNewman

          March 27, 2012 at 4:50 pm

          Indeed. I have been soundly defeated in the crushing grip of your Logic. Now have a drink to celebrate the fall of another opponent.

  29. Al Potenza

    March 27, 2012 at 4:39 pm

    Krivit’s latest article, done in cooperation with Lewan, is very damning of Rossi. In answer to Ransompw, yes, a brief increase in heat in Rossi’s system would be quickly reflected in an increase in steam at the end of the output hose.

    The original ecat is a small, comparatively light system which should respond quickly to increased power put into the large pair of heaters with which Rossi equipped it.

    I am always struck by the location of the large external heater. The only thing it can heat is the cooling water! It has no intimate contact with the “core”. What can its purpose be other than to heat the cooling water? How can that possibly have anything to do with “safety” as Rossi has said multiple times?

    I think this new revelation may have Rossi dead to rights.

    • Ransompw

      March 27, 2012 at 4:41 pm

      Al:

      How does 10-20 seconds of increased input energy effect the results of a 2 hour test? Please explain it.

      • Al Potenza

        March 27, 2012 at 4:59 pm

        That’s not the right question! The overall result of the test has been critiqued elsewhere. The new Krivit post demonstrates that Rossi has no reason to touch the control knob except to cheat by making the system show more steam. It does not mention the overall experiment’s result. It’s not about that.

        If you specify the results and calculations you are referring to with respect to the entire test, I’ll try to address them but I think your concerns have been discussed many times. Despite what you’ve written, the reason for doubting Rossi’s energy output measurement is that in those experiments, the steam is not dry.

        And, as you know from many similar discussions, Rossi could have used any of at least three standard methods of calorimetry to clarify his data. He was told about every one of them in meticulous detail on the Vortex forum and on his own blog. He has always refused to do any of them.

        • Ransompw

          March 27, 2012 at 5:47 pm

          Al;

          The supposition is that Rossi turned up the power briefly to fool people into believing he was making large quantities of steam when IN FACT, he wasn’t. The problem is he did make large quantities of steam in the April 28 test, of that there can be NO doubt.

          See Lewan’s Report:

          http://www.nyteknik.se/incoming/article3166569.ece/BINARY/Report+test+of+E-cat+28+April+2011.pdf

          I would point out that Lewan measured the water run through the system at 11707 grams or 11.707 Kg and conservatively measured 11160 grams during the almost three hours the device was allegedly making steam. The other 547 grams of water was run through while it was heating the water to boiling.

          All of the water was collected in a bucket, it was not run down a drain as in the other test.

          The energy input for the three hours while Rossi’s device was allegedly making steam was 1123 watts (65 watts of which was needed for the controls), so 1058 was available to effect the 11160 grams of water. It would take 1026 watts just to raise the temperature of the input water to the boiling point. With absolutely 100% efficientcy of the heater which is impossible only 1/2 of 1% of the water would have been turned to steam (and again, 100% efficientcy is impossible so really the input energy wasn’t enough to vaporize any of the water.

          YET over 1/2 of the input water was missing from the bucket at the end of the test. Impossible unless a significant amount of the water was vaporized.

          • Al Potenza

            March 27, 2012 at 6:26 pm

            @Ransompw

            I can see we’re going to have to disagree about the old tests and I don’t want to rehash all the details because it’s extremely tedious to locate them in the original documents and reports.

            The obvious thing to do would be to ask Rossi to repeat the test using conventional methods of calorimetry and an independent group of scientists to do the test under his supervision. I’ve often wondered why he doesn’t do this. Haven’t you?

          • Ransompw

            March 27, 2012 at 6:30 pm

            Al I stopped trying to understand Rossi a long time ago. Under any scenario you can imagine his actions are bizarre, and that is true even if you think he is a scammer.

      • John Milstone

        March 27, 2012 at 5:23 pm

        Ransompw: Rossi’s “test” was two hours of producing a tiny amount of steam, which percolated water through the E-Cat, and didn’t demonstrate any excess power.

        Then, for the few seconds where someone was actually examining the outflow, Rossi increased the power being added to the system in order to produce a reasonable amount of steam.

        To accept Rossi’s claim that excess energy was produced, you have to believe that he converted all the water flowing into the E-Cat into steam. The fact that it collected in a bucket on the outflow side as water shows that it wasn’t all, or even mostly, steam.

        Water flowing out means no excess energy. Rossi fiddling with the power settings at the exact moment someone was examining the outflow means Rossi was intentionally faking the results.

        • Ransompw

          March 27, 2012 at 5:58 pm

          John:

          The measured input energy wasn’t enough to vaporize any water. You can’t lose 1/2 the water under that scenario.

          You certainly could argue that Lewan’s estimate of energy produced is incorrect, I agree and it is certainly less then he estimated, but you can’t say significant overunity greater then 1 kilowatt wasn’t produced. There is no question that this test showed overunity of at least 3/1 (more like 4/1) consevatively.

          You can’t just say Lewan was wrong so no excess energy was produced, that ignores the evidence.

          • John Milstone

            March 27, 2012 at 6:50 pm

            You can’t just say Lewan was wrong so no excess energy was produced, that ignores the evidence.

            A test conducted in Rossi’s facilities, with Rossi’s preparation. If you want to believe that Rossi didn’t use one or more tricks, you’re welcome to do so. I don’t believe it for a second.

            If I’m reading Lewan’s report correctly, he ended up with 5.4 Kg of water in the outflow container (starting with none??), but he’s assuming that all of that water was vaporized and re-condensed. I find that unlikely, especially given the video evidence from other tests that the E-Cat spews liquid water out with a tiny amount of steam. So that cuts the energy needed to convert the water into steam in half.

            Lewan also didn’t do more than a simple test of the electric power supplied to the device during the test. As far as I recall, no one ever tested the theory that Rossi was using the “power on the ground wire” trick.

            There’s also the fact that in this test, Rossi didn’t “unwrap” his device, so we don’t know what may or may not have been inside. Alan Fletcher’s review of that particular test doesn’t indicate that it was particularly convincing (LINK).

          • Ransompw

            March 27, 2012 at 7:26 pm

            John:

            I am not arguing that Rossi couldn’t have rigged something to input more energy, but other then your suspicion and speculation you have no evidence of any such additional energy source.

            And I already said that Lewan’s estimate that all of the water was converted to steam is likely incorrect.

            But, over 11.707 Kg of water went through the ecat and only 5.4 Kg remained and in fairness to Lewan, some of the steam likely did re-condense.

            You have nothing to dispute my anaysis that O/I was at leat 3/1, nothing except you don’t believe Rossi and you think it is a scam. Wonderful evidence.

          • John Milstone

            March 27, 2012 at 8:12 pm

            I am not arguing that Rossi couldn’t have rigged something to input more energy

            OK, so I guess our only dispute is that you believe Rossi to be honest (at least when it comes to the performance of his E-Cat) and I don’t.

            I would point out that in the test in question, there’s no mention of either unwrapping the insulation from the E-Cat, nor of weighing it before and after, so it’s possible that at least some of the “missing” water could have been retained in or around the E-Cat, hidden by the insulation.

            I would note that the performance of the E-Cat in this test is no more impressive than my one-mug coffee maker, if you assume that both are converting only a small amount of water into steam. It “processes” about 125ml of water per minute (7.5 liters/hour) out of its reservoir, using no more than 800 Watts. In this test, the E-Cat only moved 3.8 liters/hour using (assuming no fraud) 378 Watts.

          • Ransompw

            March 27, 2012 at 8:25 pm

            John:

            No, I don’t know if Rossi is honest about his Ecat, but without proof I am not going to assume he is cheating. You on the other hand have made it clear you DO KNOW that he is cheating somehow.

            That’s the difference I see.

            And your one mug coffee maker is making hot water, not vaporizing over 50% of the water with 800 watts. If it does that let’s you and I go into business.

          • John Milstone

            March 27, 2012 at 8:41 pm

            And your one mug coffee maker is making hot water, not vaporizing over 50% of the water with 800 watts. If it does that let’s you and I go into business.

            I guess I’m just not the salesman that Rossi is.

  30. 123star

    March 27, 2012 at 4:49 pm

    georgehants, congratulations! 31 posts dated March 27! You should be banned like Maryyugo for >5 posting spree! 😀

    • georgehants

      March 27, 2012 at 4:54 pm

      123star, you appear to be the 7th irrational today.
      Would you like to debate with me in a simple question and answer session the advantages and gain of irrational skeptical to mankind.
      If not please take your puerile comments to the mouse-hole website,

      • Al Potenza

        March 27, 2012 at 5:03 pm

        George, unless I mistake the owner’s purpose, this forum is to discuss the ecat, Rossi, Defkalion and similar topics. It’s about making LENR with nickel and hydrogen.

        You may have other concerns of a more general nature but this might not be the best place to bring them up. When you do, it’s harder to follow the discussion the forum is intended for. Thanks for understanding.

        • georgehants

          March 27, 2012 at 5:08 pm

          Al Potenza, you spend all your life debating evidence that is out of date and forgotten.
          I do not interfere with you please, unless you wish to discuss in a simple question and answer debate the benefits of irrational skepticism do not interfere with me.
          Do you not think the previous 7 irrationals cannot look after themselves.
          I agree their abilities to face the Truth are very limited but there you go.

  31. georgehants

    March 27, 2012 at 5:14 pm

    Well 7 irrationals with no balls or confidence in their views.
    Now I am retiring for the night so you can all come out and make out how brave you are.

    • Frank

      March 27, 2012 at 5:44 pm

      Poor George – nobody likes to play with him …
      😉

    • JKW

      March 29, 2012 at 1:45 pm

      Good riddance.
      34 posts in this thread, irrational ravings day after day. How tiresome… I am for imposing a limit.

  32. JNewman

    March 27, 2012 at 5:27 pm

    Perhaps the afternoon show is over. Pity. It would actually have been quite entertaining to see somebody try to explain the benefits of irrational skepticism. LOL!

  33. Thicket

    March 27, 2012 at 5:43 pm

    I think it’s time that Rossi got a new coffin. His old one doesn’t have any more room for nails.

    We have another definitive example of fraud by Rossi. As a reporter, Krivit is relentless in his pursuit of the con-man. I think he’s doing a tremendous job. There was no reason for Rossi to touch the heater controls if the eCat was real. The fraud is so very simple. There are no hidden devices or weird chemical reactions. There is no sophistication. There are fraudulently placed thermocouples or heat input when folks aren’t supposed to be watching.

    • Ransompw

      March 27, 2012 at 6:00 pm

      He made the same claim 8 months ago, this isn’t new.

      • Al Potenza

        March 27, 2012 at 6:29 pm

        He doesn’t claim it’s new. It’s more evidence for the same hypothesis, namely, that Rossi perpetrated a rather lame but effective fraud.

  34. parallel

    March 27, 2012 at 6:34 pm

    Having waded through the ~800 mostly turgid comments so far, I feel moved to add that while Ransompw described the situation of Dick Smith’s offer well for those with elementary knowledge of the business world, perhaps a more basic explanation is required for others.

    Mr. Smith said he was only concerned with a “black box” result, but how that black box works is a proprietary secret. It would be extremely foolish for Defkalion not to require any such information, however acquired, be held confidential by a non-disclosure agreement.

    I largely agree with you georgehants. The skeptics go on about things that cast doubts on the value of the COP. They do little to disprove the E-Cat works. As you and many others have stated, we will have to wait and see before a proper judgment can be made. It is hard to visualize a fraud when Rossi is not seeking investors. In fact, I wish I could invest in it. Probably a better bet than EEStor’s EESU that has tempted me. (More fun than a lottery ticket.)

    It maybe that some truly have difficulty understanding. See
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUFyVzaWT2o&feature=player_embedded#t=6s and consider her vote counts as much as yours. Better not to feed the trolls.

    • Al Potenza

      March 27, 2012 at 10:19 pm

      “Mr. Smith said he was only concerned with a “black box” result, but how that black box works is a proprietary secret. It would be extremely foolish for Defkalion not to require any such information, however acquired, be held confidential by a non-disclosure agreement.”

      I don’t think so. If all the testers get to connect to is input power and output power, and the device, as advertised, makes no radiation, then how could anyone find any secrets of what’s in it?

      I think the secret that they are afraid for someone to find out is that it doesn’t work in a way that proves the source of power is nuclear.

    • John Milstone

      March 27, 2012 at 10:22 pm

      It is hard to visualize a fraud when Rossi is not seeking investors.

      Ampenergo supposedly invested a lot in Rossi. The appear to have disappeared.

      Rossi claims to have sold “franchises” for every country in the world, with the exception of Russia and Japan.

      Where did you get the idea that Rossi wasn’t seeking investors?

  35. parallel

    March 28, 2012 at 3:16 am

    Al Potenza wrote:
    “I don’t think so. If all the testers get to connect to is input power and output power, and the device, as advertised, makes no radiation, then how could anyone find any secrets of what’s in it?
    I think the secret that they are afraid for someone to find out is that it doesn’t work in a way that proves the source of power is nuclear.”

    You don’t think. How is the Hyperion reactor verified to be LENR and not chemical or a battery? Defkalion’s open testing invitation included opening the reactor and transferring the powder from one to the other. Perhaps you think the testers would close their eyes while verifying the powder transfer? Just being there offers opportunities to find out about the technology in many different ways.

    Milstone,
    How do you know any money was transferred for the franchises? Rossi said that would only happen after the customer had run their own tests. You know nothing about Ampenergo. At least I have spoken to Craig Casarino.

    One might deduce that given the relationship of genes and IQ that you are related to the lady in the video linked above. Prove this wrong. Remember skeptics require that said proof must be published by a well known university to be acceptable.