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Defkalion Goes Dark

February 29, 2012

From Defkalion’s forum:

The statement of fact that they have taken no money from licensees is interesting. If it was not true, anyone who paid them would start screaming no matter what an NDA said. Thus all the money is likely to come from the original players who have either been duped by one or two central figures (that seems unlikely but not impossible) or they have deluded themselves (and that seems even less likely. Or they are genuine. Or? Once more, however, the pattern predicted by those crying foul marches on.

This is a disaster of their own making. They announced the tests and then made and will possibly break their unprompted promise. It seems to me that they needed the oxygen of publicity to recruit interested partners and now that publicity has served its purpose and is becoming a nuisance.

We are a private company with our own strategy. We believed in the operation of a forum in our website because LENR should be accessible by all. We aimed to counter many conspiracy theorists. Our goal was to stress that we would handle the commercialization of this technology with social responsibility.

Throughout the lifespan of this forum we maintained minimum control, accepted negative comments openly, and provided a lot of technical and commercial information. The situation now is different in that our openness creates problems that can damage the success of this project.

This technology has international implications in energy, politics and business. A large amount of knowledge, resources and nerve are required. Our company is capable in handling all of the above and will succeed in bringing this technology to the people. In order to achieve this, we must finalize the technology with certifications, fine-tune our products with licenses, and start mass production with blue prints for our partners.
During these difficult months ahead, we see no need for the forum to exist. We do not need to provide answers, explanations or justifications for what, how and when we are doing something. We need to handle sensitive matters as opposed to manage publicity. In so doing, all activity on this forum shall be frozen.

Regarding test results: We clearly stated in our announcement that “test results may be published”. It is impossible to know the communication policy held by each government Authority or indeed the selected “internationally recognized and reputable scientific organization” that we have accepted to conduct tests when they verify the existence and validity of LENR.

Regarding being a scam: We are self financed. We have not borrowed from banks, individuals or governments. Our business plan ensures that licensees pay only after final verification of our end-product and our deliverables for production. Everything we have done is with our own money at our own risk. We have no responsibility to issue any information to anyone. Having said this, we have no intention to falsify, alter actual facts, or harm any persons. The only high stake losses are those encountered by us, no one else.

Socrates once said that “whenever people are deceived and form opinions wide of the truth, it is clear that the error has slid into their minds through the medium of certain resemblances to that truth.” Defkalion is not responsible for people who read the internet’s unverified sources, create impressions and new truths, eventually ending up in confusion.

The information out there is a lot. It is information that has been created and at times even altered according to the author’s aims. If there is any deception, it is out there. A fate regrettably encountered by Mr Rossi who did so much for LENR’s publicity.
Our responsibility is to produce a working prototype for humanity not to satisfy a few curious scientists, journalists, enthusiasts and skeptics. There will be plenty of room for constructive commentary on our final product.

Until Defkalion Green Technologies has its product, we shall no longer get involved in the games and blogs of online media. Our next announcement in the coming months will be that of a successful and certified product.

We thank those who supported our initiative, apologize to those who enjoyed the exchanges, and commit to all our honest intention to see this project succeed. Until further notice in the coming months, this forum shall remain inactive.

DGT

Posted by on February 29, 2012. Filed under Competitors,Defkalion,Media & Blogs. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

599 Responses to Defkalion Goes Dark

  1. buffalo

    March 3, 2012 at 10:36 am

    mmm.the ultimate would b a solid state system direct conversion to electricity in a lenr battery.Nickel metal has a surface film of nickel oxide,a semiconductor so slow burn heat emission should be able to induce a peltier voltage across it

    • X-prize

      March 3, 2012 at 4:23 pm

      Since most of the comments on this thread don’t relate to the original subject, I guess this would apply to replies also:

      Knock, knock.

      Yes can I help you.

      We would like to speak to Mr Rossi, please.

      I am Mr. Rossi.

      We have a complaint that you are manufacturing small nuclear devices here in Miami. We must request that you take us to your factory.

      There must be some kind of mistake, I don’t have a factory.

      Well Mr. Rossi we have enough information that seems to suggest the opposite, you are going to have to come with us until we can sort this all out.

      Honey, I must go with these gentlemen, you are going to have to watch over our baby e-cats for awhile.

      You hear the door closing, as Rossi is whisked away.

      ******************************

  2. John Milstone

    March 3, 2012 at 10:57 am

    New Krivit article: http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2012/03/02/pettersson-finds-major-flaw-but-still-believes-in-rossis-e-cat/>http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2012/03/02/pettersson-finds-major-flaw-but-still-believes-in-rossis-e-cat/

    Roland Pettersson (University of Uppsala, retired) still believes that the E-Cat works, even though he found serious flaws with the placement of the thermocouples.

    He says that although he’s seen several demonstrations, he was never able to do any testing of his own.

    • Jami

      March 3, 2012 at 11:40 am

      Pettersson: “No, it’s the same, it seems to work.”

      Makes you wonder what would have to happen in order for Pettersson to NOT believe that “it seems to work”.

      • Ransompw

        March 3, 2012 at 12:42 pm

        Well knowing how Krivit works, Pettersson probably told him but Krivit, being the “Master of the half truth”, conviently left it out.

        Of couse in the article on New Energy Times just below the Pettersson article Krivit stoops to a new low, calling himself an authority on LENR, thoroughly and scientifically studing the phenomena, clear outright fabrication. He’s a business major and from his writing he clearly has NO scientfic understanding of anything.

        • Jami

          March 3, 2012 at 12:50 pm

          He doesn’t call himself an authority on LENR. He quotes NBF. (But I agree – just by quoting it and not playing it down kind of hints at what his ego must be.)

          • Ransompw

            March 3, 2012 at 1:07 pm

            By the way, he has Pettersson in a phone interview about being present for another demonstration and all he gets is what he quoted. No, well how did this come about?, who invited who?, who else was present?, what was the purpose of the meeting?, which of the Rossi devices did he observe?.

            It is all the things he obviously left out of the article which is most telling. The information must not have fit into his agenda.

          • un passante

            March 3, 2012 at 2:55 pm

            the quick laconic interview could also be telling of what Petterson think of Krivit.

            BTW Krivit seems unable to see that what it is clearly a new attempt at hitting Rossi’s credibility bites him back because the only real news is Petterson still thinks that “it seems to work”. ie he couldn’t see anything making him doubt it was no more worthy of attention.

            krivit’s pathetic tactics exposed again:
            – read the title “Pettersson Finds Major Flaw But Still Believes in Rossi’s E-Cat” (present tense as if petterson had just found a new “major flaw” and he told about it)
            – read the actual interview, nowhere petterson talks about any flaw nor did krivit explicitly asked of him seeing any flaw. he did only say it couldn’t do his own test and that it was a demo.
            – krivit plays some magician trick with words in order to suggest that petterson may have hinted that… etc etc

            look, I may be not good in spotting scientific fraud but I am good at spotting intellectual scammers.

        • AB

          March 3, 2012 at 1:54 pm

          That a scientist believes the e-cat is real despite suboptimal thermocouple placement should tell Krivit something: that the energy produced was still large enough even after factoring in the 20% uncertainty introduced by the thermocouple placement. Alternatively, that Petterson is aware of other evidence.

          • Jami

            March 3, 2012 at 2:05 pm

            You mean a water temperature of 80C would be large enough? Actually it would violate the second law of thermodynamics because with the input power measured. It MUST be close to 100C. Rossi’s claim stands or falls within the narrow band of less than 1% uncertainty.

          • Ransompw

            March 3, 2012 at 2:09 pm

            1% uncertainty? That is nonsense.

          • Jami

            March 3, 2012 at 2:25 pm

            Why is it nonsense? The smallest uncertainty in the temperature makes the differnce between boiling water and dry steam (or it could make the difference if Rossi’s machine would be in any way capable to produce dry sream – which it isn’t). Making dry steam requires about 6 times as much energy as just heating the water – pretty much exactly what Rossi claims his COP is.

          • AB

            March 3, 2012 at 3:05 pm

            Jami, we’re talking about a test which consisted of two circuits: a steam circuit connected to a heat exchanger which was connected to a water circuit. The thermocouples were placed on the water circuit.

          • John Milstone

            March 3, 2012 at 3:42 pm

            That a scientist believes the e-cat is real despite suboptimal thermocouple placement should tell Krivit something: that the energy produced was still large enough even after factoring in the 20% uncertainty introduced by the thermocouple placement. Alternatively, that Petterson is aware of other evidence.

            Or… Pettersson is trusting Rossi to be telling the truth about the E-Cat, whether that trust is justified or not.

            There is an video interview with Kullander and Essen, where Kullander starts with the disclaimer, “Well, first you have to believe what Rossi is telling you…”. He then goes on to list all of the “evidence” that Rossi has told him about.

            Much of the “support” for Rossi from a handful of LENR researchers is based on believing that Rossi is telling the truth. The whole thing falls apart if Rossi is lying. And, there’s plenty of evidence that Rossi is lying.

          • Jami

            March 3, 2012 at 5:41 pm

            AB,

            my fault. I mixed up the tests. The Oct. 6 one was that with the mircale heat exchanger who’s primary Tout read somehow lower than secondary Tout, wasn’t it? I think Horace Heffner did a pretty good job showing that the measurement errors alone would account for a COP <1 – even if no additional trickery would have been used.

    • daniel maris

      March 3, 2012 at 2:54 pm

      But it’s not just Pettersson is it? George Miley also accepts the reality of Rossi’s device:

      http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg64013.html

      • John Milstone

        March 3, 2012 at 3:35 pm

        I don’t see that Miley has “accepted the reality” of Rossi’s gadget. Miley has only stated (AFAIK) that there should be more testing, which Rossi refuses to do.

        Miley also mentions the rich variety of unnatural isotopes he produces with his device. Based on the available evidence, Rossi’s device produces NO unnatural isotopes.

        The sample that Rossi claims was transmuted in his E-Cat appears to be identical to what one would get if one simply mixed the proper ratio of natural Nickel and natural Copper, as purchased from a chemical supply store.

  3. Tom Baccei

    March 3, 2012 at 12:32 pm

    The evidence that this site has been taken over by a cabal of pro pathskeps is overwhelming. The amount of time and energy spent by several of them is insane unless there is a specific goal of discrediting Rossi and DGT without a shred of fact or evidemce to support their assumptive claims. In what other area of fringe research, science, or research is even a small fractipn pf this relentless welter of half truths, insane logic and pack blind certainty evident? As I have said before, show me a single victim! Find me the hidden wire, or battery. This assault is part of a scam of its own, of far greater proportions than any grab for a few million being made by Rossi andDGT. This site has allowed them free reign, and perhaps those with open minds and still genuine skepticism should browse elsewhere and watch how once again the same pack of snakes and pathoskeps will hunt you down to poison yor worldview.
    And NO this is NOT based on my undying belief in LENR Rossi, or DGT. It comes from the place where I despise propagandists, and efforts to control peoples minds with clever, self serving debating tricks and lies. Yes,it is a rant. You all deserve more than that. Admin, why did you let valuable site turn into pathoskep home page?

  4. John Milstone

    March 3, 2012 at 12:36 pm

    Makes you wonder what would have to happen in order for Pettersson to NOT believe that “it seems to work”.

    I’ve noticed that when I’ve gone back and read, or listened to, the entire quotes of scientists who support Rossi, there is almost always a statement along the lines of, “assuming Rossi is telling us the truth” or “assuming Rossi is correct”.

    It’s clear that Rossi has not provided enough independently verified data to prove anything. He has run wiz-bang demos that look good, but that are useless as evidence.

    Most of the scientific support Rossi does have is based on the assumption that Rossi is telling the truth. They have to willfully ignore the mountain of evidence that Rossi is not telling the truth about anything that can be verified.

    • un passante

      March 3, 2012 at 3:23 pm

      isn’t it unfortunate that those gullible idiots don’t pay attention to the advices of the great John Milstone? you should flood them with e-mails!

      • John Milstone

        March 3, 2012 at 5:40 pm

        Isn’t it unfortunate that you have absolutely nothing worthwhile to say?

        • un passante

          March 3, 2012 at 6:55 pm

          I had to say exactly what I implied in my sarcasm. And I do think it’s worthwhile.

  5. SH

    March 3, 2012 at 1:55 pm

    http://www.e-catworld.com/2012/03/the-e-cat-and-the-ether/

    Actually i want to recommend the sincere people on this blog to leave, and let Paul and his FUD army slowely but surely transform this site into moletrap 2 in peace.

    There are other great blogs, with more practical comment sections i might add, e.g. Frank’s e-catworld.com or Ben’s e-catsite.com.

    SH

    • Ben

      March 3, 2012 at 2:29 pm

      Two fine alternatives…if I do say so myself 🙂

  6. Jami

    March 3, 2012 at 2:16 pm

    “There are other great blogs, with more practical comment sections…”

    I made the mistake of clicking on your link. Is that what you call a “more practical comment section”? Dr. Antonio Ruggeri rambling on about about the universe? I think not even PESN would touch Ruggeri with a 10 foot long pole if you gave Sterling Allen a million bucks (on second thought – he might).

    • SH

      March 3, 2012 at 2:35 pm

      Thats not the comment section, thats the guest post/”latest story”

      The comment section is where you are typing your negative crap right now.

  7. JNewman

    March 3, 2012 at 3:00 pm

    So when people post things you think are incorrect, misleading or unfair, you can do one of three things:

    1) Ignore their posts.

    2) Explain what is incorrect, misleading or unfair about what they said.

    3) Insult or attack the poster or try to get them banned from the site.

    Clearly the “sincere” people here are opting for #3.

    • RonB

      March 3, 2012 at 3:14 pm

      lol – you really crack me up!

      Personally I like the debate since I’m on the fence and ok to wait for 12 to 18 months for the factual proof. After reading a few posts it’s easy to spot the people that are just going off and I skip those (just like some of you skip my posts) :p

      I’m on the fence about LENR in general. Accepting Rossi or DGT is a ways off for me. It seems easy enough to put a reactor in a cloud chamber and poking a hole it the shielding and giving a demo of that.

      • JNewman

        March 3, 2012 at 3:33 pm

        I like the debate too. At least from those who actually are interested in debating as opposed to insulting people and ranting about paid pathoskeptics. There is much pretense of neutrality here, but precious little evidence of it. People who claim to have an open mind about Rossi and DGT are suspiciously sensitive about any questioning or criticism directed toward those parties.

        Being on the fence about LENR is reasonable. There is a substantial body of data in the field but it is a serious leap of faith to interpret it as a compelling argument that the technology has great practical potential. I don’t actually see people here as “true believers” in some mesmerized sense. What is prevalent here is the complete inability many posters have of distinguishing between the consequences of the current state of the rest of the LENR work around the world versus that of Rossi and DGT. If Rossi and DGT are for real, then LENR is a technology ready to play a major role in the world. If they are not, then LENR is a curious laboratory phenomenon still awaiting practical development. This logical confusion is one of conflation. People can’t seem to separate the reasonably convincing but not very impressive existing work in LENR with the highly implausible but potentially earthshaking claims of Rossi and DGT. I keep asking people here what they believe to be true of LENR if Rossi and DGT didn’t exist, but nobody seems to want to answer that.

        Anyway, it is entertaining.

        • MK

          March 3, 2012 at 4:06 pm

          I do not know whether Rossis device or the Defkalions claim are true. The available information can be interpreted in both directions.
          Lets assume there was no Mr. Rossi. In this case I would not have got the first piece of information in January of 2011 and I would not have collected a lot of information…
          Leaving Rossi and Defkalion aside but using the knowledge I gathered: LENR is real but still deep in the laboratory state. The conditions to stimulate LENR are on the edge to be understood. There are some theories that are a good first guess (I like the Widom Larsen theory, but I think it is not yet complete). From my point of view it will take some more years to make first pre-industrial but usefull devices (still assuming that Rossi and Defkalion were not there!)
          JNewman: Was this how you meant your question and what you would accept as an answer?

          MK

          • JNewman

            March 3, 2012 at 4:23 pm

            MK, absolutely. Your answer is perfectly reasonable. It is also probably fairly typical. Many people here have gotten interested in LENR as a result of Rossi’s announcements last year. Once you do some research, you can understand the enormous gulf between what Rossi claims and what others have reported. Does that make it false? Certainly not. But what other have reported certainly doesn’t make Rossi’s claims true. Thanks for replying!

          • Ransompw

            March 3, 2012 at 4:56 pm

            The only disagreement I have is the likely time to advance this technology. Since the tests are really inexpensive and the time to do them short, I expect rapid development of this process once the scientific community acknowledges without hesitation that the nuclear effect is real.

            The only thing that would hold back progress is the process itself. In other words does it have serious flexible limitations. Even then with the low cost and rapid test results time to implement will likely be short for first generation products. Also, next generation is likely to follow on a path similar to the personal computer, very rapidly.

  8. buffalo

    March 3, 2012 at 4:05 pm

    entertainment is the name of the game brother.the owners of this website r makin a bundle frm us doodles.i rekon ecat-porn wil be next on the spinnoffs of the fiasco

    • JNewman

      March 3, 2012 at 4:25 pm

      Right! Paul is probably shopping for a private island right now with the proceeds from this website.

  9. M MacDonald

    March 6, 2012 at 8:49 am

    All this talk from people with opinions, c’mon guys, do something, all you need is a cu chamber ni powder a can of Hydrogen and you can make one — less talk more action.

    Sincerely, if all the thought started by this was directed to action, we could beam Scotty up by now!

    Where are the people doing replications??

    What have they got to say, more importantly, why are they not comenting here?

  10. Dick Smith

    March 7, 2012 at 12:40 am

    so what is the latest on the tests and those involved?

    Can someone give me an update as this is an important issue
    does anyone actually have a direct contact with anyone at Defkalion?

    • hempenearth

      March 7, 2012 at 1:58 am

      Hi Dick,
      You might try praying to the spirit of Socrates! I think they are mostly asleep right now.
      Cheers

  11. John Milstone

    March 7, 2012 at 12:58 am

    What tests? There were never any tests!

    We have always been at war with Eastasia.

  12. Quax

    March 7, 2012 at 6:45 am

    Not sure how active this thread is anymore. But anyhow, if you are interested in the results of last weeks survey please head over to http://hotandcoldfusion.wordpress.com

  13. Frank Foster

    March 11, 2012 at 8:31 am

    What happend to the tests? It is now 3/11/12

  14. Al Potenza

    March 13, 2012 at 5:24 pm

    test. was having trouble posting.