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Dick Smith LENR Prize

February 29, 2012

Dick Smith, the Australian entrepreneur and a doyen of the Aussie Skeptics’ Society, recently offered $1m to anyone who could prove they had a LENR device capable of producing an output of 1kW or over. Asked to formalise this offer, he has now set up a website to do just that. To set the challenge on a solid foundation, he has also agreed to a press release and to link the new site from a recognised Dick Smith Net address. He is travelling on vacation at the moment so please be patient.

Originally destined for the inventor of any winning machine, the money is now promised to the institution that verifies it instead. I am not sure why an inventor would risk exposing his invention under that scheme. To counter this, DS suggests that it would be fine for the two parties to negotiate a split by mutual agreement beforehand. Now we have a situation where the initial filter is in the hands of any qualified testing body. Protective of their reputation, their good name will be worth much more than $1m but the inducement is large enough to make it worth their while looking at any credible claim that passes the first BS scan.

For the inventor, the financial reward is a down payment on the true prize – validation. Winning that will likely be worth a fortune.

Careful not to put words into DS’s mouth, my guess is that his sceptical mindset has crafted this structure. After all, he expects anyone who claims such a thing is a fraud while a credible institution can be trusted to protect their good name. My concern is to try to turn a well-motivated negative into a positive for the LENR community and (just-maybe) the world.

With luck, Andrea Rossi or Defkalion will make this challenge redundant. If not, then we need to recognise that the science born as cold fusion (whether fusion or something else) will be in a vulnerable situation. Working for over two decades in the scientific, wilderness, the achievements of the early pioneers is nothing short of miraculous but they are engulfed by a fog of nonsense that is difficult to break from.

There is a lie doing the rounds that needs to be challenged. It comes in many guises but can be reduced to the following paraphrased comment:

It has taken over two decades and millions of dollars of research and all the cold fusioneers have managed are a few dubious experiments with tiny and debatable amounts of excess thermal energy to show for it. Even if their results are real, the unimpressive outputs would not combine to heat a cup of tea never mind form the basis for an energy revolution.

The truth is closer to this:

If you were to take a lump of coal (say) and in some strange land found that it sometimes ignited and you were not sure why, you might conduct an experiment. Putting a flame to it, a few months later it does indeed catch fire. Encouraged you get another lump from the same seam and try again. This time after three months nothing happens even though (as far as you can tell) everything was the same as before. You try another and another and after a year or so you start varying the parameters one by one. You try a lump from another mine, dip it in water, stick it in a vacuum, grind it up, mix in some impurities etc, etc. Again, something seems to work but when you try again it suddenly doesn’t – another multi-month dead end. There is no doubt about the effect – you have seen and measured it – but it is difficult to prove as the years slip by and others laugh at you.

From all the evidence, it appears that LENR researchers now understand the primary reasons for the long timescales and sporadic success. They think they know why materials from the same batch did not perform equally. Some can reproduce their results on demand. Credible argument revolves around competing theories. Celani has discovered a way to make a wire sense the reaction, perhaps giving us a powerful tool for future research.

We are on an exponential curve of discovery. The idea that going from mW to kW is a leap too far, is nonsense. It would be like saying that, because it took thousands of years to notice the heat generated by rubbing two sticks together, it will take thousands more to make enough to cook with (never mind burn down the forest). We would have to be incredibly unlucky as a species for some roadblock to stop us graduating from controlled and repeatable cold fusion at small power to larger outputs. The miracle is in its existence, not its macroscopic scale. That is engineering. All indicators signal real potential and anyone who harps on about it not having made a cup of tea is a fool or twisting words to resemble a lie.

I hope that Dick Smith and others with the resources to make things happen take this thing by the scruff of the neck and make it so. Bypass the negativity. Cold fusion is not too good to be true. Science is telling us so. Buried within this prize is something worth fighting for.

If you have not invested money in Defkalion or Rossi without proof then why not give them the benefit of the doubt? Perhaps a number of small engineered refinements hard-won through thousands of quick and dirty experiments took AR from rubbing sticks to making tea. Perhaps the combination of a catalyst to make atomic Hydrogen, finding the right Ni grain size and tubercules, the best pressure and temperature range, the way to use energy bursts to control the beast – and so on – led to the seemingly impossible. Perhaps this is why so many close to him are still there. Perhaps this is what he and Defkalion are fighting over. Perhaps that is why credible organisations are not dismissing him out of hand.

Do not believe or invest until you have proof but beware the devil on your shoulder whispering that all of this is impossible or that it is too good to be true. It is not.

I fully understand why the genuine sceptics think the way they do. History is on their side and I will continue to warn people about uncritical acceptance. I consider myself a sceptic but only in the sense that the understandable secrecy surrounding this subject induces a pattern that matches those of past frauds – but only to a degree.

Dick Smith is the first skeptic with money to put it where his mouth is. He does so in a way that indicates he is open to genuine proof. If it comes, I hope he will run with what we’ve learned and, no matter what, take a calculating look at what he can do for the world through this incredible science that is destined to someday bring us in from the cold.

 

Posted by on February 29, 2012. Filed under Defkalion,Drama,Politics,Tests & Demos. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

156 Responses to Dick Smith LENR Prize

  1. GP

    February 29, 2012 at 12:55 pm

    Instead of wasting any more time on this guy, it would be better to use it on something like the Roland Pettersson report, which seems more relevant at this point.

    • Stephen

      February 29, 2012 at 2:07 pm

      I agree… except on the fact that Pettersson’s report is more relevant. I think it is a very irrelevant news too. I am still waiting for a proof that eCat/Hyperion actually does what it is claimed to do. Knowing how many bottons are included in the box is quite uninteresting in my opinion.

    • PL

      February 29, 2012 at 2:50 pm

      I also agree. I’ve lost 100% respect for this thug known as dick smith.

      dick smith writes,
      “It has taken over two decades and millions of dollars of research and all the cold fusioneers have managed are a few dubious experiments with tiny and debatable amounts of excess thermal energy to show for it. Even if their results are real, the unimpressive outputs would not combine to heat a cup of tea never mind form the basis for an energy revolution.”

      * Cold Fusion has been verified by notable academic scientists such as Dr. Rob Duncan who has a PhD in Physics, who specializes in measuring energy, and who is vice-chancellor of research at the University of Missouri.

      * The American Physical Society recommended Dr. Rob Duncan as the best scientist to verify Cold Fusion claims.

      * After spending days taking measuring & analyzing the Cold Fusion experiments, Dr. Rob Duncan said on a national television interview, “I found that the work done was carefully done, and that the excess heat as I see it now is quite real.”, and “I never thought I’d say that.”

      http://www.globalfreeenergy.info/2010/09/24/cold-fusion-proof/

      I know the mentality of this thug. One of the leading LENR research companies could put up the money to build numerous LENR units in-parallel to achieve the 1KW, but then this thug would essentially say, “But it doesn’t produce excess heat 100% of the time. Sometimes it can take over a month before the effect is noticeable.”

      You’re making headline story on my website, dick. I wouldn’t support any product you sell now or in the future.

      • Ivy Matt

        February 29, 2012 at 8:51 pm

        The statement you quoted may possibly be an accurate summation of Dick Smith’s views, but it is not a quotation of his words.

      • Mark Doherty

        March 2, 2012 at 11:31 am

        I have followed Mr Rossi’s tale from the very start. I have moved from Hope & enthusiasm to skepticism and mild anger. A test or demonstration of Genuine excess energy in the order of 1kw would not be difficult to do, if you really had such a device. Mr Smith made his money the hard way. With genuine hard work, & his honesty is above reproach. Mr Smith has a long history of walking the talk. The longer Mr Rossi only produces excuses, the more he looks a genuine fraud.

  2. Mahron - A4 B2

    February 29, 2012 at 1:00 pm

    He should spend is money on allan sterling. He got some shit done.

    • Methusela

      February 29, 2012 at 1:53 pm

      He could buy around 32,000 Raspberry Pi devices for that amount, and give them away to schools and colleges.

      ANONYMOUSLY.

      Instead, he progresses towards his self-aggrandisement (not to mention his canonisation by the Aussie Church of Skeptics).

      • PL

        February 29, 2012 at 2:56 pm

        In my firm opinionm, dick knows full well he wouldn’t give up his dirty $1m if his life depended upon it. It’s far too easy to come up with endless debatable excuses.

  3. Ransompw

    February 29, 2012 at 1:26 pm

    So in Dick Smith’s infinite wisdom, he sets up a prize encouraging the independent testers (not that they would) to both falsify their findings and/or collude with the LENR inventor. Brilliant! And this is the guy with years of business experience we should all respect.

    • Methusela

      February 29, 2012 at 1:59 pm

      LOL.

      The world of ozemite is obviously a very different place…

    • Tomas Douting

      February 29, 2012 at 2:03 pm

      It is this appearance of the possibility that a testing organization could take outside monies in association with some test they perform that will likely create a situation in which no reputable testing organization could possibly accept this challenge.

      The independence of their testing is the lifeblood of such organizations. I would suspect that there would be no offers accepted under these conditions except by organizations which have no interest in maintaining a reputation for independence and ethical behavior.

    • Roger Bird

      February 29, 2012 at 2:15 pm

      I was thinking the same thing. Any institution could do a perfunctory test say that it did not work, and then collect the money. It is sort of like positive feedback.

      • Al Potenza

        February 29, 2012 at 3:28 pm

        Could you explain that or say it with different words? I can’t grasp what you mean. (thanks)

        If they say it doesn’t work, how does anyone collect the money?

        • Roger Bird

          February 29, 2012 at 4:52 pm

          Oh, they have to prove that it is true. And with their reputation on the line, I guess I got that wrong. Sorry.

          • Al Potenza

            February 29, 2012 at 8:42 pm

            OK, thanks for clearing it up.

  4. Ivan Mohorovicic

    February 29, 2012 at 1:27 pm

    I’m under the impression that individuals/entities in the pre-industrial stage, able to produce LENR devices generating excess heat in the order of kilowatts of power wouldn’t need a mere 1 million dollar and put to risk their IP when the potential of such discovery is worth trillions. If they ever allow testing on prototype devices of such scale, it’s unreasonable to expect them to be 100% open before they hit the market.

    There instead are plenty of scientists that work more or less openly on devices in the several-milliwatts to several-watts excess heat range who could use that money for research and the advancement of LENR science. Wouldn’t it better for everybody to focus the efforts of these “stunts” on them, as of now?

  5. Ransompw

    February 29, 2012 at 1:33 pm

    Not to mention the fact that the main purpose of a prize is to encourage investment into breaking some barrier to success and his prize doesn’t even do this. I can”t imagine anyone more clueless.

  6. Haldor

    February 29, 2012 at 1:56 pm

    An update on my conclusions so far:
    1. Investors can’t read and they absolutely don’t do their due diligence.
    2. Andrea Rossi is a magician.
    3. All (as in 100% of them) Scientists can be fooled easily.
    4. Nobody listens and only MONEY talks.
    5. We all like jump to conclusions.

  7. Stephen T.

    February 29, 2012 at 1:57 pm

    Defkalion have responded to the NyTeknik article on their website. Very interesting.

    • Mahron - A4 B2

      February 29, 2012 at 2:05 pm

      link or did not happen. tits or gtfo.

      • Methusela

        February 29, 2012 at 2:35 pm

        LINK Milstone style, as requested.

        • John Milstone

          February 29, 2012 at 2:44 pm

          I called it yesterday: LINK

        • Mahron - A4 B2

          February 29, 2012 at 2:49 pm

          ho thanks. I was looking for something bigger. I scrolled right passed it.

          So much data to assimilate.

      • Stephen T.

        February 29, 2012 at 2:52 pm

        Nasty?

        • Mahron - A4 B2

          February 29, 2012 at 2:55 pm

          no. just internet slang.

    • Peter Roe

      February 29, 2012 at 2:34 pm

      @DGT: “Nytechnik article is 100% wrong based on pure speculations of the journalist. We expect his response after a direct communication with him.”

      As a commenter on the forum called Celsus says, if ‘100% wrong’ is correct, then virtually everything DGT have said about the tests is nonsense. I think they need to take an urgent look at what is being said on their behalf by whichever member of their janitorial staff is manning the post and get someone with an ounce of PR savvy in place asap.

  8. Haldor

    February 29, 2012 at 2:40 pm

    Mats Lewan updated his article already.

    • C M Edwards 9%

      February 29, 2012 at 3:04 pm

      Yep.

      http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3419346.ece

      The entire test was coducted over 24 hours starting Friday, not 96 as previously promised, with the control subject running for only 12 hours. DGT’s spokesman also stated that 2 other test labs have already completed their trials.

      So, IMHO, we can expect to start seeing reports and summaries of results by the middle of April. Failure of the tests is the only legitimate reason to withhold them longer than that.

      • JNewman

        February 29, 2012 at 3:10 pm

        Interesting but puzzling. Why are the tests 24 hours instead of 96? What about all the business about published protocols, independent equipment, sweeping the room, etc. etc.? I guess it all changed for some reason. But it’s all positive, right? At least I’m sure it looks good to at least some people.

        • Stephen T.

          February 29, 2012 at 3:15 pm

          Looks OK sort of. Interesting developments. I want data like a dying man in the desert wants water. Guess we have to wait. Nothing new about that part.

        • Veblin

          February 29, 2012 at 3:17 pm

          Don’t twist things. They said that group from the Greek Government only tested for 24 hours. The other testers may well want their full 96 hours. Dick Smith thinks 6 hours is all that is needed.

        • C M Edwards 9%

          February 29, 2012 at 3:24 pm

          My guess is either poor planning (denied permission to test over a holiday weekend) or partial failure.

          Partial failure is a bit far fetched – if their Hyperion craps out on day one, then they’re already planning a second run with the control and there’s four days to fix it up and get it back on the test stand. So I’m leaning toward poor planning. Or excellent planning, depending on how suspicious you are…

          As for the test protocols, I keep seeing people post here and there that they’ve seen them. I sure haven’t. What’s up with that?

      • Methusela

        February 29, 2012 at 3:11 pm

        Not April 1st, I hope.

        • Stephen T.

          February 29, 2012 at 3:16 pm

          That would be perfect. Don’t tempt them. I sure hope it is sooner.

        • C M Edwards 9%

          February 29, 2012 at 3:28 pm

          April 1st is my birthday. But I’m told that I’m already getting presents, so please don’t wait on my account, DGT…

      • John Milstone

        February 29, 2012 at 3:20 pm

        Until at least one of these “well-known” organizations steps up and identifies themselves (which should have happened before the tests started), there is no particular evidence that any tests are actually taking place.

        • C M Edwards 9%

          February 29, 2012 at 3:40 pm

          The UL response to an inquiry posted in a previous thread about Rossi strongly suggests that a lot of the test labs for Defkalion will not come foreward until Defkalion does. And it’s safe to bet that Defkalion isn’t going to until they have a lab report with positive results.

          Even if it’s all positive results, I still think we’ll be sitting around waiting for at least a week before DGT starts naming names.

          It doesn’t take more than a month to summarize measurements and put some signatures on it, though. And there are three labs and counting now, according to Defkalion. They can’t all run late for the same reason. If we haven’t heard anything by April, we’ll know Defkalion is responsible.

          • John Milstone

            February 29, 2012 at 8:13 pm

            C M Edwards 9%: You’re comparing apples and oranges.

            U.L. won’t release any information on their own because that information belongs to the customer. Rossi can release any information he wants about the process. Rossi’s excuse that he is prohibited by an NDA from doing so is nonsense.

            OTOH, the whole point of the Defkalion testing is to prove to the public that their device really does work. If they were really serious about this, they would not have allowed the testers to remain anonymous. The fact that they allowed that is very suspicious.

            U.L. might be an appropriate choice to test Defkalion’s device. They could probably do a good job. And, if Defkalion asked them to do so publicly, they would have no trouble with that request.

            However, U.L. isn’t likely to do this for free. They (just like UniBo and NASA when dealing with Rossi) would require payment for their work. The biggest problem with Defkalion’s plan is finding credible organizations that are willing to provide publicity to Defkalion for free.

          • C M Edwards 9%

            February 29, 2012 at 9:37 pm

            No, not apples and oranges, just test labs.

            The test lab will not come forward until Defkalion does.

            Therefore, the current silence of the test labs is all Defkalion’s fault.

          • John Milstone

            February 29, 2012 at 10:55 pm

            Remember when Rossi was supposedly going to have both the University of Bologna and University of Uppsala do independent testing of his device? As I recall, one of the points that killed one or both of those deals was the the Universities insisted on doing their tests openly, which Rossi rejected.

            There is no reason a testing organization would require, or even allow, “private” testing in this type of situation. If “secrecy” is a requirement, it is one imposed by the “customer” (Rossi or Defkalion), not the testing agency.

      • Mahron - A4 B2

        February 29, 2012 at 3:20 pm

        Things are starting to look good again. Except no open research is being done on the discovery of the century.

  9. C M Edwards 9%

    February 29, 2012 at 2:49 pm

    I think this is a bad idea.

    In this “reward the lab” scenario, there is no disinterested third party. The objectivity of the test lab is compromised by the appearance of only getting payed for a positive result. There can be no reliable proof without reliable third party testing, and actively pursuing Smith’s offer would be a serious conflict of interest for the test lab.

    You’d get more reliable results by just handing out e-cats to randomly selected homeowners in exchange for regular progress reports.

    A positive report funded by Dick Smith on these terms just opens one more question of fraud.

  10. kwhilborn

    February 29, 2012 at 2:58 pm

    Nice article. Focusing on the money as an incentive instead of a skeptics tool.

    I predict 2 things.

    a) There will be at least a few LENR cars on the road before the end of the decade.

    b) Dick Smith will not have agreed to any test conditions where he lost 1 million dollars in the same time. I believe he thinks LENR is not possible and once he does realize he will not pay a penny.

    This was a great article.

    Dick Smith has endorsed the view that all LENR researchers are idiots including American organizations like NASA and MIT. He has alleged that the excess power is derived from wrong wiring.

    He insults some of the worlds top scientific organizations, and yet many people think he is some kind of skeptics savior. I just think he is sadly uneducated on the topic.

    I was hoping we’d heard the last from this fool, however this article made it less painful.

    Thanks

    • spacegoat

      February 29, 2012 at 3:31 pm

      Thankfully DS has moved his GRANDSTAND !!!!!!!! to another website. This site can return to considering evidence.

  11. Jami

    February 29, 2012 at 3:02 pm

    Why did Mats cross out what he’d written? He was just quoting an anonymous source. Now if that source is contradicted by Xanthoulis, he can point that out, of course. But either his source did say what he worte it said, or it didn’t.

    • C M Edwards 9%

      February 29, 2012 at 3:09 pm

      It’s not like he removed the information from the anonymous source.

      It’s the Internet – Everything’s a rough draft.

    • B Fast

      February 29, 2012 at 3:30 pm

      He didn’t delete, he lined through. We don’t need to go to internet archives to find out what he said.

      • Jami

        February 29, 2012 at 3:42 pm

        “crossed out” and “lined through” were the same thing, I thought.

  12. Joe Shea

    February 29, 2012 at 3:17 pm

    A commenter wrote, “There instead are plenty of scientists that work more or less openly on devices in the several-milliwatts to several-watts excess heat range who could use that money for research and the advancement of LENR science.”

    Well, look at the sceintists at the University of Tasmania who created an onboard hydrogen kit for diesels and said they improved mileage by 80%. The work was underwritten by Ballard Power, which promptly seized it and has kept it hidden for 4 years – except for use on their own trucks!

    • Al Potenza

      February 29, 2012 at 3:30 pm

      Link if you can, please?

      • Mahron - A4 B2

        February 29, 2012 at 3:33 pm

        Yeah ! Let’s move on to that story.

  13. PieEconomics

    February 29, 2012 at 3:22 pm

    Dick Smith should look at what NanoSpire claims: Diamonds, metals, and rare earths produced out of ordinary water, in addition to producing excess heat, using a desktop supernova event.

    There’s extensive due diligence about NanoSpire on my blog page entitled Cold Fusion, Comedy? http://pieeconomics.blogspot.com/p/cold-fusion-comedy.html

  14. Denbla1

    February 29, 2012 at 3:35 pm

    From JNOP, Rossi seems to be commenting on DGT test

    Martin
    February 29th, 2012 at 4:11 AM
    Dear Andrea,

    Mats Lewan told about à test on 20 februari. Can you tell us some more
    About this test? Goal, pictures etc

    Best regards,

    Martin

    Andrea Rossi
    February 29th, 2012 at 7:53 AM
    Dear Martin:
    We started the tests of the domestic reactor. The technology is completely changed, new patents have been applied for, an intense testing program is going on. With very good results. The data are totally covered, we are talking of the unit that will me made in 1 million pcs/year, we will not give any data before the next Autumn. No pictures will be available until the product will be for sale. The strategy with which we will annichilate the competition must remain secret to the last moment. By the way: if there is out there some clown that thinks to buy a bulk of E-Cats, change the body and say”here is our product! We copied it from Rossi because we are the Mandrake of the copycat!” better forget it from now. Our sales will go exclusively to our Customers and our Licensees and we will be very much aware of where our E-Cats will go: no bulk sales outside our sales network, and a price too low to allow a profitable reverse-engineering. By the way: we are receiving very strange and pretty much clownesque requests of pre-order for tens of thousands of E-Cats from the Aegean area…. By the way: all the investors who think to make money investing in companies who are copying our patents, both pending and granted, better prepare an army of attorneys: we will not only make extremely competitive prices, but also will defend in all the competent Courts our Intellectual Property. Better to know this from the very beginning.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • Mahron - A4 B2

      February 29, 2012 at 3:45 pm

      What a great world we are going to live in. Instead of energy being controlled by 10000 people, it will be brought down to one guy with a patent. I hope his attorneys are battle ready and bullet proof.

    • Jami

      February 29, 2012 at 3:50 pm

      “an army of attorneys”

      Thats scamming basics. In order to stall everything, get in the attorneys and from there on in it all becomes fantastically easy. Another year of delay? Blame it on the lawyers. Another million required here and ther? Blame it on the lawyers. Still nothing new to report? There would be, but the lawyers said you shouldn’t. Defkalion, naturally, will respond in kind and both will live happily ever after without having to show anything at all.

    • Peter Roe

      February 29, 2012 at 6:29 pm

      Bit of a disconnect here. On the one hand, warnings about someone planning to re-badge ecats and a “pre-order for tens of thousands of E-Cats from the Aegean area” which couldn’t be much clearer. On the other hand, warnings not to get involved with “companies who are copying our patents” because we will sue them.

      So DGT are simultaneously going to put e-cats in new boxes to meet their demand, AND they are going to build rip-off ‘Hyperion’ e-cats.

      I wish Rossi would make up his mind which it is.

      • un passante

        February 29, 2012 at 7:47 pm

        translation from Rossian language:

        1. I will crash any competitor!!
        2. Those moth%$&%&5 have nothing!!!!
        3. If they have something I will start a war!!!!!!

        I guess he needed some time to relax after writing that.

        [maryugo mode on]the most bizarre scam ever with great acting[/maryyugo mode off]

    • Al Potenza

      February 29, 2012 at 7:13 pm

      “new patents have been applied for”

      Aren’t patent applications public? Has anyone seen these?

      • Ivy Matt

        February 29, 2012 at 9:02 pm

        Patent applications must be made public 18 months after filing in most countries.

    • un passante

      February 29, 2012 at 7:37 pm

      This is Rossi starting to fear that defkalion did actually manage to steal his secret sauce.

      or Rossi going on with the most bizarre fraud ever involving him and a group of greeks pretending to be fighting over a new technology in order to fool Dick Smith.

      p.s. I don’t think that there are really “tens of thousands pre-orders” coming from greece. that is rossi (and his weird sarcasm) saying “those &%$%$%& got nothing!!”

  15. Denbla1

    February 29, 2012 at 3:36 pm

    or JONP even 🙂

  16. Grégory

    February 29, 2012 at 3:42 pm

    “Originally destined for the inventor of any winning machine, the money is now promised to the institution that verifies it instead”

    I stopped reading here. Dick Smith is so obviously playing one stunt after another to try to save his reputation but it’s now crystal clear to me that wether or not eCart is true, DS million is not. It’s not here, it’s not on the table, and nobody will get it. There was no clear answer on why not to buy the 1MW plant, and now there is the new new new offer, each time redesigned because the previous one was actually on its way to force him to actually put a real million on the table.

    • PL

      February 29, 2012 at 3:52 pm

      Even if dick made his insincere deceptive challenge official, it’s usually to easy to wiggle out of them. I’d like to see dick clarify in writing, signed, that clearly states the experiment does not need to produce endless non-stop power. It’s well know that proven legit Cold Fusion / LENR experiments have a delay issue, and sometimes a stability issue. All dick would need to say is, “So sorry charlie, your device doesn’t always produce 1KW.”

      Hey dick, if you can prove that the food products you sell are better than other food products, then I’ll buy them. haha

  17. Grégory

    February 29, 2012 at 3:50 pm

    … and let met guess, where does he mention any contractual commitment from his side to pay the million ? Putting his reputation on the line here clearly is not enough, as he will obviously always come up with something to justify himself escaping the role he offered to play.

  18. Quijote

    February 29, 2012 at 3:54 pm

    Mr. Dick Smith is beginning to bore

    • Mahron - A4 B2

      February 29, 2012 at 4:03 pm

      That was already two or three posts ago.

  19. Tom F

    February 29, 2012 at 4:04 pm

    Wonderful analysis. I like the coal and fire analogies.

    What is disturbing about Dick Smith is his comparison of LENR to “fuel pill” and the Firepower fiasco in Australia. It’s unfortunate what happened in Australia, but there is no comparison. Firepower was strictly a money raising scheme with zero interest in technology.
    LENR seems to be the opposite where the principal researchers are putting their own money and sweat and lives on the line. Look what happened to LeClair and Lebid and their radiation exposure and sickness because of their different approach to LENR.

    Also, the laws are different in the United States, Australian fraudsters in the Firepower scam essentially were unpunished, So we can understand Smith’s outrage. But if it happened here, they would have received long prison terms and asset confiscation. Rossi would not be in the United States with those realities facing him, if he had nothing.

  20. Alex

    February 29, 2012 at 4:07 pm

    Talk about broken promises and failure to deliver!!!

    Dick was going to get expose the scoundrels with open communication and published email, but he couldn’t figure out how to record a Skype call and publish a pdf of the NDA he was asked to sign.

    Dick was going to get the best and brightest to help him test, but never came up with a sensible testing protocol, or a reasonable objection to Defkalion’s.

    Dick has said goofy things (like the ungrounded wire nonsense) that he’s never been held accountable for, yet he’s still listened to as he churns out these uber-skeptical, I-dare-you proposals that offer no chance of changing things.

    As Paul has said, e-Cat shows signs of being something less that the inventors claim, but guys like Dick Smith only muddy the waters by making the skeptics look more ridiculous than the free energy promoters.

    Let’s start a small fund to visit Defkalion and see what’s up… a video camera and some simple testing equipment could take us a long way. Dick, can we put you down for $1,000?

    • Methusela

      February 29, 2012 at 4:09 pm

      He never saw an NDA.

      • Alex

        February 29, 2012 at 4:23 pm

        He never saw an NDA.

        Well, that’s kinda dumb… if you’re a serious guy you get a copy of the NDA and negotiate which clauses are acceptable.

        It’s not like they can ask you to sign an NDA for their NDA 🙂

        • Methusela

          February 29, 2012 at 5:33 pm

          Yes, you got it right: it was dumb, inexcusably dumb.

  21. PL

    February 29, 2012 at 4:07 pm

    The author of this blog site said it well, “All indicators signal real potential and anyone who harps on about it not having made a cup of tea is a fool or twisting words to resemble a lie.”

    If rossi’s ecat turns out to be a fake, then lets hope someone hires a notable Private Investigator to investigate these endless fakes, and people such as dick smith. If there’s an undisclosed group pumping out these endless fakes, then maybe dick smith and rossi are on the same team. Don’t think it’s not possible. Big Oil was recently caught paying millions of dollars to people under the table who are against the global warming movement.

    • Alex

      February 29, 2012 at 4:30 pm

      Right… a lot of us seem to think Paul is coming at this the right way… skeptical, but hopeful. So, let’s do something to move this process along.

      In an ideal world a group of forum posters who don’t know each other would not be the ones on the cutting edge of testing breakthrough technology (or exposing colossal fraud), but…

    • Tony

      February 29, 2012 at 5:32 pm

      Actually, that’s completely wrong about the payoffs from big oil to anti-GW folks if you’re talking about the leaked documents by Gleick. The report stating that has been fairly well vetted and is viewed as a forgery by Gleick.

      http://www.consumerenergyreport.com/2012/02/23/how-to-kill-the-global-warming-cause/#more-9514

      Tony2

  22. Harold Baker

    February 29, 2012 at 4:38 pm

    I see some of the other people here feel the same way as I do about this Dick Smith character. He is just a waste of time, and we wish you would not bother reporting his publicity seeking antics. I have decided not to read any more articles about him, and save my time and energy for real news on LENR

  23. Ben

    February 29, 2012 at 4:41 pm

    Dick is already wiggling. Look at the disclaimer at the bottom of his web site.

    “Disclaimer: In regard to any controvesy over claiming the Reward.

    It should be noted that if, following the announcement, major controversy is created by other respected scientific institutions claiming that the test has not been conducted correctly, the money will be held until this controversy has been resolved. It should be noted that the offer is for a genuine evidence of a working one kilowatt unit that is accepted by the majority of reasonable people in the scientific community.”

    So apparently independent verification itself is not good enough to win the $1M. The results also have to be accepted by “the MAJORITY of REASONABLE PEOPLE in the scientific community. What does that even mean?

    The Dick Prize is a joke…and a bad one at that.

    • AB

      February 29, 2012 at 4:58 pm

      The disclaimer is incredibly stupid.

      Dick, the majority of the scientific community is NEVER going to accept a single positive LENR test. They’re going to want many, at different institutions. This prize isn’t going to help genuine LENR research out into the spotlight. It’s only going to be claimed when LENR is already in the spotlight.

  24. Lu

    February 29, 2012 at 4:52 pm

    Let’s see, he the sole arbiter of the award of the prize. So far he will only accept input from the following:

    Australia: ANSTO (Australian Nuclear Science and Technology Organisation), University of New South Wales
    USA: NASA, DARPA
    Sweden: University of Uppsala
    Italy: University of Bologna
    (more will be added as details are provided and accepted via eCat News site)

    On top of that they have to write a completely political and unscientific statement along the lines of what’s on his web site, something a scientific organization will never do.

    I don’t get it with this offer as it will never be awarded short of a renegade scientist making a mad dash to retirement.

  25. Quax

    February 29, 2012 at 4:55 pm

    Frankly, I am surprised at how much animosity Dick Smith has generated here. To me it seems that even hardcore ecat believers should be happy for anything that gives additional incentive to perform more conclusive LENR tests. In the end it doesn’t really matter where Dick is coming from as long as his price scheme works towards that end.

    Well, maybe something to ponder for a future poll.

    If you haven’t taken my poll yet for gauging the likelihood of the e-cat being real, please indulge me and spend five minutes on it. The poll will stay open throughout the week and I will share the results next week:

    http://tinyurl.ms/4rcf

    • Mr. G

      February 29, 2012 at 5:00 pm

      I did the poll and encourage others to take part in it.

      G

      • Quax

        February 29, 2012 at 6:12 pm

        Thank you Mr. G and to all the others who have already voted! 🙂

  26. Thicket

    February 29, 2012 at 5:06 pm

    Lol. You guys are hilarious. Some of you asked Dick Smith to make his $1 million official, which he did.

    Now all the negative Nellies are oozing with skepticism. You question Smith’s methods and motives.

    Your close-minded pathoskepticism (patho part is sarcasm) makes you reject anything that goes counter to your beliefs in Rossi and Defkalion.

    Smith is a very succesful entrepeneur, published writer, former Australian of the year with a penchant for stunts and publicity.

    Yet believers choose to believe a convicted felon and his prodigal Greek offspring.

    By the way, Smith was right when he predicted that Defkalion would delay with their much anticipated February demonstration. Everything we know so far says that the demonstration was a kludge. Expect more delays, ad infinitum.

    Rossi is continuing his delays. Apparently there will be nothing more until autumn.

    The perpetual delays by Defkalion and Rossi are hallmarks of an investor scam.

    • Quijote

      February 29, 2012 at 5:36 pm

      Delays in the ITER project are enormous, … ITER is another scam?

      • Mahron - A4 B2

        February 29, 2012 at 5:47 pm

        It’s because of the cafeteria.

        • Methusela

          February 29, 2012 at 5:54 pm

          It’s the lack of caffeine in their coffee.

      • Jami

        February 29, 2012 at 5:58 pm

        ITER is something that’s based on known physics. We know ITER can work because the sun works. Delays due to technichal difficulties and the usual funding games (“Oh, we just found out we’ll need yet another billion”) is almost to be expected. Doesn’t change the reality of it, though. And of course it doesn’t mean that ITER won’t eventually be scrapped due to not enough money or difficulties beyond the scope of the technology or change in political priorities. But a scam? No.

        • Mahron - A4 B2

          February 29, 2012 at 6:03 pm

          It is also our best chance to not return to stone age after petrol and uranium are gone. Unless of course LENR saves our asses then we can spit at the face of the past without regretting it.

          • Peter Roe

            February 29, 2012 at 6:43 pm

            There is enough thorium around to power our civilisation for generations. Unfortunately, thorium reactors are technically difficult to build and potentially quite dangerous (although nothing on the scale of uranium/plutonium reactors).

            It is possible that they might also be used to recycle long half-life nuclear waste into products with shorter half-lives, and so reduce the high level waste dumps that no-one wants in the same hemisphere, let alone next door. Politicians don’t like thorium reactors because they can only be used for peaceful purposes (no bomb fuel). That’s why they didn’t get built as the obvious first option in the 50’s.

          • Jami

            February 29, 2012 at 7:34 pm

            I wonder what Kirk Sorensen thinks about all this Rossi and Defkalion stuff and the money involved. Apparently China is now getting serious about Thorium.

      • Ben

        February 29, 2012 at 6:21 pm

        Hot fusion in general is a scam. It has all the hallmarks. Big promises, poor results and constant delays and cost overruns. I can’t imagine ITER being any different.

        If he moves like a duck, talks like a duck and act likes a duct…

      • Ivy Matt

        February 29, 2012 at 9:07 pm

        Nope, just politics as usual. Oh, wait….

    • Iokl

      February 29, 2012 at 5:37 pm

      Dick Smith is just getting YOUR treatment, you should be happy for him!

    • Methusela

      February 29, 2012 at 5:49 pm

      Thicket, you are, as usual, missing the point.

      Really, you ought to judge Dick according to his behaviour in this particular arena, like you judge Rossi by his.

      Dick made a disingenuous offer, as he expected to be refused, then backed out using the never seen NDA as an excuse.

      Using that past history, I don’t trust Dick.

      Extending out of this arena, we find the Wilberforce Award: lots of publicity in the Aussie press about that, but there’s a disclaimer on the award’s website that allows him to never make the 1 million AUD payout.

      I neither believe, or trust, Dick, DFG, or Rossi.

    • Ransompw

      February 29, 2012 at 6:06 pm

      Thicket:

      Even you can appreciate the problem with offering alleged independent testers an incentive not to be accurate. Given a million reasons not to be objective, who is going to test the accuracy of the independent testers. But, instead of acknowledging the serious problem with Smith’s offer you have to post the above which is hilarious, since your mantra will not allow you to be objective.

      • Thicket

        February 29, 2012 at 9:07 pm

        Ransom

        Yes. I can see the difficulty of providing incentives to organizations not to be accurate. Perhaps Smith is too trusting. He’s counting on the integrity of credible organizations to tell the unvarnished truth. All it takes is one ‘credible’ organization to not be totally truthful and his million is gone.

  27. popeye

    February 29, 2012 at 5:40 pm

    PL:

    Cold Fusion has been verified by notable academic scientists such as Dr. Rob Duncan who has a PhD in Physics, who specializes in measuring energy, and who is vice-chancellor of research at the University of Missouri.

    but found *not* to be proven by 17 of 18 experts enlisted by the DOE to examine the best evidence and interview the best researchers. All of these experts had PhDs in physics, and some were even trained in *nuclear* physics, something extremely rare in the field of LENR.

    And if Duncan “verified” the claims, then why was he so cautious in his recent interview on Cash-flow, where he said “until someone […] really proves it, and shows a black box that really does put out 20 times more energy than it consumes. When somebody does that, then […] [that] will be enough to kind of convince the world to jump in,…”. He wouldn’t say that if he believed someone had already done it.

    And if Duncan verified Energetics claims (which include a COP of 25, and tens of watts), why is it that in the 3 years since, neither he nor Energetics has published anything on the results in the peer-reviewed literature? There are plenty of conference proceedings, and so on, but nothing under peer-review. Duncan knows how it works. What’s he waiting for?

    Moreover, if Energetics claims have merit, then they can get something like a watt of power from a tiny Pd foil without input power (heat after death) for hours on end. Why wouldn’t they put that foil in an isolated thermos of water, and watch the temperature climb? That would have made a pretty accessible demonstration for 60 minutes. Instead, the best they could do was show Duncan doing a calculation in a notebook.

    The American Physical Society recommended Dr. Rob Duncan as the best scientist to verify Cold Fusion claims.

    No. That was the lie 60 minutes got caught on. The APS put out a press release after the show explicitly denying the claim. They were never contacted, and never supplied any names to 60 minutes.

    What happened was that a member of APS, who insisted he never claimed to represent the organization, gave a list of names to 60 minutes. Presumably they interviewed several and found one that seemed gullible.

    After spending days taking measuring & analyzing the Cold Fusion experiments, Dr. Rob Duncan said on a national television interview, “I found that the work done was carefully done, and that the excess heat as I see it now is quite real.”, and “I never thought I’d say that.”

    That’s also a fairly cautious statement. He doesn’t say the source is nuclear. Over the 3 years, he has made more definitive claims, but he seems to have backed off again, as the quote from his recent interview (above) shows.

    But the real problem I have with the claim is that it was necessary to spend days measuring and analyzing to verify an energy density of GJ/g. It’s trivial to prove a few tens of kJ per gram. How can be so hard to prove a million times more?

    One of the leading LENR research companies could put up the money to build numerous LENR units in-parallel to achieve the 1KW, but then this thug would essentially say, “But it doesn’t produce excess heat 100% of the time. Sometimes it can take over a month before the effect is noticeable.”

    I doubt that any company make a convincing nuclear kW by putting many of their mW devices in parallel. With higher power, it’s not so easy to claim an artifact as a real effect. And the objection that it may be chemical scales with the number of devices. Rossi already showed that 100 devices in parallel is no more convincing than a single device. In fact, that Oct 28 dog and pony show was far less convincing — if that’s possible — than some of his previous shows.

    • Methusela

      February 29, 2012 at 5:51 pm

      Good god, masses of text and most of it complete drivel.

      • Ben

        February 29, 2012 at 6:26 pm

        Yes, that is why Pops is on a short leash around here…or at least was. The limit of 5 posts a day seems to have been discarded with the emergence of Dick Smith so I would expect to see more of the same.

        • Peter Roe

          February 29, 2012 at 6:53 pm

          Even at five posts per day his verbiage is going to out-gun everyone else put together. Even using ‘Page Down’ it takes three clicks to get past his posts!

          • Thicket

            February 29, 2012 at 9:16 pm

            I found Popeye’s post interesting and informative. The peanut gallery jabs from Methusela, Ben and Peter were contentless drivel. That’s nothing new.

            I’m guilty as well. This post is contentless drivel. Gads!!! The three of you are having an effect on me.

  28. popeye

    February 29, 2012 at 5:46 pm

    kwhilborn:

    a) There will be at least a few LENR cars on the road before the end of the decade.

    Hey, you’re too late. Mallove & Rothwell predicted that in 1994. I thought they meant the 90s, but maybe they meant this decade. No matter. There’s room for a lot of wrong predictions in cold fusion.

    Dick Smith has endorsed the view that all LENR researchers are idiots including American organizations like NASA and MIT.

    At most, he has endorsed the view that some people within NASA are idiots, and given its size, it’d be surprising, if there weren’t a few. NASA has not formally backed cold fusion as an organization.

    And at most he has endorsed the view that one person at MIT is an idiot. MIT specifically states they do not endorse the material presented in free-time, non-credit courses like the one Hagelstein gave. And the experiment was done by an external person.

    • Quax

      February 29, 2012 at 6:20 pm

      Popeye, not to pick on you in particular, but I think your post nicely demonstrates why Defkalion/ecat turning out to be a scam would be disastrous for the more credible LENR research.

      No matter how much they try to keep themselves at arm length from Rossi, quite naturally the public will jump to the conclusion that this is all one of the same.

      • Jami

        February 29, 2012 at 7:24 pm

        I don’t know whether that would really mean much. Today most of the field either ignores or ridicules LENR. When Rossi and Defkalion crash, this will probably shift a little towards ridicule – but for LENR research itself it’ll all be status quo ante (meaning “prove/scale it”), won’t it?

        • Mahron - A4 B2

          February 29, 2012 at 7:39 pm

          ridicule doesn’t kill as we say in french. It’s won’t stop it if real and useful.

        • John Milstone

          February 29, 2012 at 8:01 pm

          If Rossi is a fraud, then not only is he discredited, but a significant portion of the LENR “universe” will be discredited.

          Focardi, Levi, Celani, Kullander, Essen, Jed Rothwell, and many others have all staked their reputations on the “fact” that Rossi’s device is legitimate.

          None of them would ever be taken seriously again if it turns out that they couldn’t distinguish between a breakthrough and a fraud in their area of expertise.

          • Methusela

            February 29, 2012 at 8:06 pm

            This of course applies in reverse, Mr Milstone 🙂

          • John Milstone

            February 29, 2012 at 8:20 pm

            @Methusela: Absolutely. If Rossi turns out to really have a production-ready 10KW LENR reactor, then Krivit, Ahern, the mainstream physics community and all us “psycoskeptics” will be shown to be fools.

            Of course, Rossi could have proven all of us wrong any time during the last year or more, and yet he has chosen to continue to act as though he can’t produce a working device under controlled conditions.

            The touchstone for detecting a fraud of this nature is simple: Has the “inventor” allowed any independent testing of the device?

            If the answer is “No”, then it’s almost certainly a fraud. Note that Rossi still falls under this category. So does Defkalion, at least unless and until one of these “well-known” testing organizations step forward.

          • JNewman

            February 29, 2012 at 8:21 pm

            That is correct. It would be serious blow to the reputation of a pseudonymous person on the internet.

      • JNewman

        February 29, 2012 at 7:43 pm

        Quax, the problem here is the opposite. For many people here, their confidence in LENR in general leads them to jump to the conclusion that Rossi and Defkalion have what they say they do. Conversely, by not keeping other LENR work at arm’s length from Rossi, that work is now thought of as part and parcel of the same thing.

        An interesting thought experiment: if Rossi and his mysterious step-child had never entered the scene, what would you say is the current status of LENR? What is it currently capable of and what are its current limitations? How would you answer that if you had never heard of Andrea Rossi?

        • Quax

          February 29, 2012 at 8:51 pm

          Don’t think I am the most representative person to asks this. Since I graduated in physics but no longer work in this field I in part satisfy my physics cravings by keeping track of the more moribund research activities.

          Stuff that’ll be spectacular if it’ll turn out to be true while passing my highly subjective “not completely implausible” threshold such as LENR, the Podleknov effect, Heim theory etc.

          So I was aware of ongoing small over unity LENR claims before Rossi mania.

          Continue to think they are worthwhile to research.

          • JNewman

            February 29, 2012 at 9:06 pm

            Your position seems completely reasonable. I really wonder about many of the others here. What did they think of LENR before Rossi mania and if they are capable of putting aside Rossi and his claims, what do they actually believe about the current state of LENR apart from Rossi? The question is whether people can even do that anymore, or whether Rossi mania (as you put it) has permanently colored their assessment of the field.

  29. popeye

    February 29, 2012 at 6:25 pm

    Tom F:

    Wonderful analysis. I like the coal and fire analogies.

    But burning coal doesn’t need a continuous input from another energy source. It’s all self-sustaining from the get-go. If there were a reproducible self-sustaining cold fusion experiment, it’d be a different story. There are isolated, erratic claims of heat after death, but they’re not notable enough to even merit a mention on the 60 minutes show.

    And fire is not scaled up heat due to friction, so that doesn’t work. And anyway, fire was controlled before they figured out how to make it by rubbing sticks together.

    The quote he disses is much closer to the truth than the lame analogies, to my mind.

    <pP
    What is disturbing about Dick Smith is his comparison of LENR to “fuel pill” and the Firepower fiasco in Australia. It’s unfortunate what happened in Australia, but there is no comparison. Firepower was strictly a money raising scheme with zero interest in technology.

    The argument goes that that is also true of Rossi and Defkalion.

    LENR seems to be the opposite where the principal researchers are putting their own money and sweat and lives on the line.

    I don’t think anyone thinks LENR is all a scam. I think it’s likely mostly delusion and incompetence, as Koonin put it (a 23-year old opinion that has stood the test of time), but most researchers are probably sincere.

    But it is a fertile field for scams because of all the cognitive bias and devoted believers. It’s pretty easy to spot them though. They are probably the ones run by people with a background in fraud instead of physics (Dardik and Rossi), and a background in medicine (Dardik and Mills) seems to work too.

    • Methusela

      February 29, 2012 at 6:42 pm

      Don’t respond.

      This is how he trolls.

  30. MK

    February 29, 2012 at 7:16 pm

    A little bit (totally) of topic (and for the more technology interested): http://lawrencevilleplasmaphysics.com/
    LENR and Hot Fusion head to head??

    MK

  31. Stephen T.

    February 29, 2012 at 8:17 pm

    Defkalion have shut down their forum. Looks like for months at least. Statement on their forum now.

    • Methusela

      February 29, 2012 at 8:22 pm

      Poor Rossi, Sauron’s eye is back on him again 😉

    • Jami

      February 29, 2012 at 8:30 pm

      I had such a feeling when this guy calling himself “Boggle” posted for the first time:

      http://www.defkalion-energy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1237&start=20

      That all sounded very much like whoever was posting for DGT before.

  32. Stephen T.

    February 29, 2012 at 8:21 pm

    • JNewman

      February 29, 2012 at 8:25 pm

      “Our next announcement in the coming months will be that of a successful and certified product.”

      I guess that means we should not hold our breaths for those test results…

    • Mahron - A4 B2

      February 29, 2012 at 8:25 pm

      Going all socrates on us, assholes.

      • andreas

        February 29, 2012 at 8:59 pm

        Perhaps the one comment a day was too much work for them?

    • Methusela

      February 29, 2012 at 8:29 pm

      I blame Dick Smith.

      • Al Potenza

        February 29, 2012 at 8:54 pm

        OK. But please explain to me how offering a million dollars for something they claimed they were doing for free would be to blame for their shutting down all public discussion of their claims? Could it be they could not meet the challenge?

        • Mahron - A4 B2

          February 29, 2012 at 8:56 pm

          OK. But first please explain to me how “I blame Dick Smith” can be taken as a serious comment ?

          • Methusela

            February 29, 2012 at 10:23 pm

            You are, of course, correct. It wasn’t.

            Seems like the French and the English might actually be on the same wavelength…

    • Lu

      February 29, 2012 at 8:55 pm

      Wow. Defkalion’s rambling makes no sense at all. Self-financed? What about the licenses they are selling? Haven’t they heard of a public relations contact? Most legitimate companies employ them to deal with the public. Defkalion’s press releases and forum communications were decidedly amateurish, an embarrassment if you ask me. Defkalion’s lack of response to their own failures in keeping their own promises is a public relations disaster. Quite frankly, they could not control or stand up to the little scrutiny they’ve underwent.

      I’m a very open-minded person and will not jump to conclusions unnecessarily but under the circumstances my view is they do not have viable LENR commercial device–not even a lottery ticket’s chance of having one. I may be wrong–and I hope I am, but at this point I will no longer pay attention to this company and consider them fraudulent.

      Go Andrea Rossi!

    • AB

      February 29, 2012 at 8:57 pm

      Recently the question why Defkalion was running a forum at all crossed my mind repeatedly. There is no reason why a company in a position such as them, assuming they are genuine, would need it at this stage of development.

      They answered my question:

      We believed in the operation of a forum in our website because LENR should be accessible by all. We aimed to counter many conspiracy theorists. Our goal was to stress that we would handle the commercialization of this technology with social responsibility.

      It seems that herding demanding believers and disbelievers is starting to get difficult.

  33. Tony

    February 29, 2012 at 8:31 pm

    Defkalion is shutting down their web site.

    Tony2

  34. Tony

    February 29, 2012 at 8:34 pm

    Sorry. Maybe just the blog/Q&A section but they’re going quiet.

    Tony2

    • Al Potenza

      February 29, 2012 at 8:48 pm

      Here’s the link:

      http://www.defkalion-energy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1278&sid=515eb67407290a6f35aa007f74d53d9a

      I hate to say it but shutting down discussion forums is a hallmark for scammers. They can’t stand to have their prospective investors read credible but negative aspects of their claims. BAD SIGN! VERY BAD SIGN.

      Of course Rossi never had a forum and what he allows on his blog is, as most of us here who have tried asking him stuff know, heavily censored ahead of time.

      • Al Potenza

        February 29, 2012 at 8:55 pm

        Sorry Stephen T. Didn’t see your link until I had posted mine.

        • Tony

          February 29, 2012 at 9:01 pm

          Me too, ST. I’m never first with anything. I got really excited thinking I broke the story of the millenium and here I was just a poor hanger-on.

          Story of my freaking life.

          Tony2

          • Mahron - A4 B2

            February 29, 2012 at 9:04 pm

            there there. next time.

          • JNewman

            February 29, 2012 at 9:09 pm

            Why don’t you just make up something? Nobody checks anyway.

        • RonB

          February 29, 2012 at 9:31 pm

          lol Newman.. sad but true

  35. Ransompw

    February 29, 2012 at 9:10 pm

    With Defkalion’s latest bombshell, I am sure the skeptics will be out in force. For them this will be just another piece of evidence for the scam they have predicted with 100% assurance.

    So should we join them in proclaiming scam and agree that at this point the evidence supports 100% assurance of scam? And even if we did, would our vote really matter in the end? Personally, I doubt it is a scam and have become less convinced of scam over the last few months. Do I have any real evidence it isn’t, NO. Would I think of investing in Rossi or Defkalion, NO WAY. Certainly, not without some conclusive behind the scene proof of their product. Of course if I had that, I wouldn’t be paying any attention to the skeptics and I surely wouldn’t be posting to this site. All the delays and public relations goofs will be more then forgiven if the technology proves out, so really what does Defkalion care either if we followers of this drama are irritated?

    But if this technology is real, if LENR, “Cold Fusion” is about to prove real to the world, I can not imagine the behind the scenes action which is taking place and which will take place in the coming months. The pressure on Rossi and Defkalion will be ENORMOUS. If they think they have seen attention up to this point, think again as the movers and shakers in this world learn this technology is real. We may be living in unprecidented times and how this is going to all shake out will in word be one for the history books.

    So do I think this is a scam, I really don’t. And for the skeptics, don’t try to convince me with your logical arguments, this is a gut feeling. I would never invest based on a gut feeling and I am not trying to convince anyone else. And you don’t have to save me from myself, I am perfectly happy to wait and see if you dudes are right. Time will tell who is right and if wrong, I am plenty big enough to admit it. But, I do think something may be up and I for one don’t think it is scam, try revolutionary technology.

    • dsm

      February 29, 2012 at 9:17 pm

      Ransompw

      You sure got this bit right

      “would our vote really matter in the end?”

      Good call

      Doug M

      • Methusela

        February 29, 2012 at 10:28 pm

        No, ours don’t.

        It’s the people that chuck money around that are listened too, in the end.

        • RonB

          February 29, 2012 at 10:55 pm

          That’s a fact. Recently I came across something that said statistically most elections were won by the person that spent the most on the campaign.

        • Jami

          February 29, 2012 at 10:57 pm

          You should tell that to my wife.

    • timycelyn

      February 29, 2012 at 9:34 pm

      @ Ransompw,

      Thanks for so well capturing my feelings, and expressing them more succinctly than I would have been able to. I know all the reasoned parallels with past ‘scams’ (although that seems to be a devalued very elastic word these days)look quite persuasive, and I would not invest one penny in it at the moment – not that anyone is asking me to.

      But my guts tell me it isn’t one of those, this only has some of the appearances of a ‘scam’, and there are other motivations for the players to behave this way.

      If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and looks like a duck….it’s a duck. Well yes, but as we know, sometimes it grows up into a swan.

      Waiting is hard, though.

  36. Thicket

    February 29, 2012 at 9:30 pm

    Ransom

    I translate ‘gut feeling’ to mean ‘belief’. I don’t think I’m misrepresenting you. You’re in the same category as many other believers on this forum.

    As for skeptics being out in force over Defkalion’s bombshell… pfffft. You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink. Skeptics can point out all the evidence for a scam, but believers will still believe.

    Defkalion pulled the plug on their forum before when things got too hot for them. It’s not a surprise that they did it again. Maybe they’ve got their investor suckers sewn up and don’t need any more public exposure.

    It was interesting that Defkalion got more credibility on this and other sites simply by putting some words on their forum. Heck, there were folks here who discussed their testing protocol in detail. It just shows how strong wishful thinking can be.

    • Methusela

      February 29, 2012 at 10:31 pm

      Well, all forums attract a certain number of ‘cranks’…

    • un passante

      February 29, 2012 at 10:42 pm

      also sprach the scam believer

    • Ransompw

      February 29, 2012 at 10:57 pm

      Thicket:

      I really wouldn’t call it a belief so much as a feeling based on all the evidence available. I think a lot of the evidence can fit a scam secnario or a revolutionary technology scenario.

  37. Dick Smith

    February 29, 2012 at 11:13 pm

    Methusula. Big difference between me and you

    You don’t post under your own name.
    What could you be hiding?

    Could be nothing or something very serious. -everyone be warned!

    • Peter Roe

      March 1, 2012 at 7:31 am

      I’m fascinated, Dick. Could you specify a little more clearly what danger ‘methusula’ represents, that we should all be on guard against?

      If you can’t perhaps you could sit on your hands rather than making such stupid comments?

      • Methusela

        March 1, 2012 at 9:01 am

        Laughs Maniacally.

        [ Twiddles carefully waxed moustache, pulls cloak over face, and stalks out of the room ]

  38. Dick Smith

    February 29, 2012 at 11:15 pm

    I can’t wait for the book to be written on the Rossi -Defkalion Affair.
    Readers will have difficulty in believing the story I reckon- just like the Firepower book!

    • Ransompw

      February 29, 2012 at 11:38 pm

      Yeah, but the comedy part will involve you.

  39. Dick Smith

    March 1, 2012 at 1:02 am

    I enjoy reading these posts, especially the ones that are critical of my intentions.
    Keep it up. Will make great quotes in a book.

    • Philip Hardcastle

      March 1, 2012 at 10:43 pm

      Well Dick you might want to include the bit in your future book where you said to me that any person wanting to manufacture something would be mad to make it in Australia, and that I should go to China.

      • Antti

        March 5, 2012 at 2:56 pm

        Well, you should if you’re worried about your bottomline.

  40. Philip Hardcastle

    March 5, 2012 at 9:28 am

    Dear Admin,

    Can you please remove my post of March 1, 2012 at 10:43pm re Dick Smith.

    Thanks

    Philip Hardcastle