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$1m Challenge Is Dead

February 21, 2012

Dick Smith’s $1m challenge to Defkalion ended when the Australian businessman pulled out. Citing Defkalion’s insistence on secrecy as a deal killer, Smith will watch the outcome of the forthcoming Hyperion tests before deciding what to do next.

The result is unsurprising given the Aussie’s determination to publish events and communications as they happen. Convinced that both Rossi and Defkalion are conducting a scam, he felt no need to hide his scorn and many watchers (this one included) could see where things were headed from minute one. The hard sceptics will blame Defkalion and many others, Smith.

One thing is evident, living with this story and its twists and turns, it is easy to forget how complex the subject is. It became quickly obvious that Dick lacked an understanding of those intricacies and while that is understandable, it put him at a disadvantage when trying to convince others that they should listen to his wisdom. That is a shame because absent detail, he could see a clear pattern unmuddied by distracting textures.

Before he appeared, I was gathering pros and cons to revisit a post I made some months ago looking at evidence for and against the eCat. Then, I concluded that anyone certain that this was a scam was not thinking straight or did not know enough about it. The subsequent revelation that the 1MW container had not been shipped was heaped on to the mystery of the secret customer and then the second customer that was to be revealed before AR apparently changed his mind.

Dick Smith’s appearance coincided with the NI reveal and I have to admit that the pattern I saw develop at Steorn was beginning to look very familiar.

You might think eCatNews has gone to the dark side but that is not so. My confidence is dented but not destroyed. Always reserving judgement, my scepticism was pragmatic – hope dressed in a show-me frame, I always felt there was enough circumstantial evidence to make this worth following. That is what I think now. Dick Smith’s certainty is misplaced in my opinion but it is well meant. I hope that no matter what happens with the eCat or Hyperion he decides to do something positive to promote LENR. To start, he should talk to people in the field to understand what is going on and he should join the rest of us to learn as we watch Defkalion and Rossi explode or change the world.

With the $1m challenge gone, the floor is Defkalion’s. So far, they have managed an air of professionalism. Let’s hope they produce the goods over the coming weeks. I would place a bet that they will demonstrate LENR convincingly but I will reserve a call on Hyperion’s utility until we know more. Hope is tinged with realism but it is still there.

We should not forget how important a successful demonstration of a robust and controllable cold fusion reaction is. In 1989 it sparked world headlines. Shrouded in so much controversy, who knows what will happen next?

Posted by on February 21, 2012. Filed under Competitors,Defkalion,Drama,Hyperion,Media & Blogs,Tests & Demos. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0. You can leave a response or trackback to this entry

344 Responses to $1m Challenge Is Dead

  1. Dick Smith Reply

    February 22, 2012 at 5:23 am

    Tpburnett. The way these scams work is that the scammer is ever saying that the product is ever just around the corner. They then get well known people involved to give credibility .

    In the case of Rossi my offer was so simple that he new that he could not substantially delay any testing however in the case of Defkalion they knew that the tests can be delayed for months while they can say that a well known skeptic is involved with them. And all the time they can sell distributorships..

    I will say it again . There is no such thing in the world as a LENR unit producing KW power levels. The evidence is clear to any reasonable person.

    Just because a small number of scientists claim they can get some type of a low power reaction does not mean for one second that the Rossi and DKN claims are true. In fact the large amount of time spent by the best experts in the world getting nowhere in relation to decent power outputs gives even more evidence a scam is taking place.
    Commonsense is all that is necessary.
    So please don’t keep saying I should have signed the secrecy agreement with DKN. That would have given them what they wanted.

    • Methusela Reply

      February 22, 2012 at 8:30 am

      What are the details of the NDA? You throw it around like a man waving a gun, but what if you’re firing blanks (via the gun, of course).
      Please get post the details – you’re behaving like a scam artist here!

    • Steve Robb Reply

      February 23, 2012 at 3:53 pm

      I hope no one reading this persons posts believes this is the real Dick Smith. Dick Smith is an overachiever and knows how to use the language whereas this impostor uses “new” rather than “knew” and “there” rather than “their.” Why sir do you create a fraud while at the same time accuse others of being frauds? I suspect you are one of those who believe that the end justifies the means or you are desperate for attention.

      • Methusela Reply

        February 23, 2012 at 5:29 pm

        Unfortunately they do.

        Paul, the owner of this site, believes it is him.

        The critics want to believe it’s him as it exactly matches their viewpoint.

        I don’t think it’s him, due to his unprofessional attitude.

  2. Dick Smith Reply

    February 22, 2012 at 5:31 am

    And surely it is obvious that ordering a Rossi machine is just what he wanted.
    Remember the customer who ordered the 1MW unit? It never happened but it allowed further months of credibility.
    That’s what would have happened with my order. So get used to it- there are no units anywhere giving even KW power levels – you have been lied to.

    • RyanWLocke Reply

      February 22, 2012 at 5:41 am

      Good post Dick and valid arguement.

    • Methusela Reply

      February 22, 2012 at 8:31 am

      How do you know it never happened? I’m suspicious that it never happened as well but have more evidence of it actually happening than not.

      Could you please provide clear evidence of your claim?

  3. spacegoat Reply

    February 22, 2012 at 6:03 am

    Summary after 300 posts of catch-up:

    Unfortunately, the Dick Smith Distraction Show goes on.

    Very few people are concerned about the integrity of the DGT tests. Tests are the only exit for the circular babble that we have all been suffering from, for a year.

    The following test criticisms keep getting raised, answered, raised answered …

    1. DGT require the testers to sign a non-disclosure agreement. (This was best answered by Lu above in this thread.) This is normal to protect their invention, but obviously it will not apply to protocol of the test, otherwise there would be no point in having a test. I will try and find out if this agreement will be published.

    2. The upcoming test is of a bare unit, calorimetry tests of a production unit come later. The purpose of testing a bare unit was best and convincingly explained by our only physics professional poster Pekka Janhunen, earlier in this thread. This approach is to reduce to the bare essentials to check the 4 objectives in the Protocol:

    Measurement of excess heat produced.
    Measurement of “bare” Hyperion Reactor COP
    Measurement of radioactivity during testing
    Measurement of reactor’s stability.

    The heat and COP objectives obviously must demonstrate a reaction that could not come from chemical sources for the given mass/volume of the rector.

    3.The bare units may have cold air blown over them to keep stability. This is a gift to the pathoskeptics and will lower the COP, thus the units will have to perform better than they would otherwise need to.

    Regarding the conduct of the tests, DGT stated:
    “Most of third party tests will be broad cast (via Internet live stream) with the acceptance of the testers. We have been prepared and equipped to do so already”

    The names and hopefully qualifications of the test teams will be published before the tests.

    • dsm Reply

      February 22, 2012 at 7:06 am

      “The following test criticisms keep getting raised, answered, raised answered …”

      Where ?

      There are no answers of fact just words & promises.
      No one in the world has yet demonstrated a working commercial ready LENR device. But more than one company has asked for deposits !!!. So will the world change on 24th Feb nup, how about 24 Mar nup, 24 may nup ……

      And you keep sucking it all in.

      Doug M

      • Veblin Reply

        February 22, 2012 at 8:41 am

        Dick Smith says.
        True Believers.
        There is no such thing in the world as a LENR unit producing KW power levels.

        Dick Smith’s Mini-me says.
        True Believers.
        No one in the world has yet demonstrated a working commercial ready LENR device.

        It must come from the DS-DSM talking points memo.

        • dsm Reply

          February 22, 2012 at 8:56 am

          State something of fact I can talk to – gibberish doesn’t work

          Cheers

          Doug M

    • dsm Reply

      February 22, 2012 at 7:14 am

      Another conundrum question for the true believers

      Rossi said this recently … so was dear Eng Rossi lying or was he telling the honest truth … please tell me !

      (if you say he lied then when has he told the truth, if you say he is telling the truth then where does the hyperion fit in. Roosi knows what they have, he went into partnership with them to produce it).

      http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=580&cpage=3#comment-185350

      2- COMPETITORS: WE NEVER COMMENT ON OUR COMPETITORS, BUT STILL WE DO NOT SEE ANY COMPETITOR ON THE MARKET AND NEITHER ON THE HORIZON. WHEN WE WILL FIND PRODUCTS WHICH WILL COMPETE WITH OURS, THEN WE WILL HAVE COMPETITORS, BUT NOW IT IS NOT THE CASE. I AM ABSOLUTELY SURE THAT WITH OUR PRICES NOBODY WILL BE ABLE TO COMPETE, ALSO FOR THE NEW TECHNOLOGY WE HAVE DEVELOPED FOR THE E-CATS AND FOR THE PRODUCTION LINE WE ARE MAKING. BY THE WAY: IF SOME COMPETITOR WILL BE ABLE TO COPY OUR TECH AND MAKE SOMETHING REALLY WORKING ( WHICH DIDN’T HAPPEN YET) OUR ATTORNEYS WILL WORK ON THE CASE.

      • Pekka Janhunen Reply

        February 22, 2012 at 7:45 am

        Concerning DGT, I think he says that he doubts that they have managed get the catget working without his help, but even if they have they cannot compete with him in price. -I’m not sure if I understood your question.

        • dsm Reply

          February 22, 2012 at 8:55 am

          “I think he says”

          Where does he say he thinks ? – I read an emphatic statement re nothing on the horizon ?
          He set Defkalion up to market eCats so he knows what he is saying.

          Perhaps we all read what people say quite differently. In matters of global importance clarity matters.

          Doug M

  4. Quax Reply

    February 22, 2012 at 6:25 am

    Dick, I think you are utterly justified to deny Rossi the credibility he’d gain by ordering one of his machines. This simply cannot be a substitute for a test.

    On the other hand in dealing with Defkalion I really would like to know the content of their NDA. I think that would be very informative. They don’t seem to have it published on their forum – at least my search for it came up empty. If they flat out refuse to open up the content of their NDA then this will certainly add to the suspicion. Did you get to see the NDA?

    As for LENR research, to my knowledge there has not been much mainstream science activity since the early cold fusion days.

    So it would be nice if there was a “large amount of time spent by the best experts in the world getting nowhere in relation to decent power outputs”.

    If that was the case LENR at least would be mainstreamed and top notch theoretical physicists would try to find a theoretical explanation of what exactly is going on.

    As it is this field was left for dead and came back rather surprisingly due to the dedication of a handful of scientists who were brave enough not fear for their reputation. All this research was done on a shoestring budget. That is why the idea that a small shop might be able to find a winning LENR “secret sauce” is not completely implausible. Although I certainly wouldn’t bet my money on it.

    • Methusela Reply

      February 22, 2012 at 8:37 am

      Indeed, what were the contents of the NDA? You’re being ingenuousness by using it as an excuse and not telling us what is it was allegedly preventing you from saying.

      I mean, if it was preventing you from parading about naked on Aussie TV covered in ozemite whilst surrounded by busty young blonde women – well, that’s quite understandable.

      Come on, if you want to be trusted, give us the details of the NDA!

    • CuriousChris Reply

      February 22, 2012 at 8:54 am

      I agree.

      Did Defkalion ask you to sign an NDA about the contents of their NDA?

      If Defkalion have unfair terms in their NDA then that should be bought out in public. Defkalion would not be the first company to do such. An example I have used previously is software companies started asking software reviewers to sign a contract that says they will not speak negatively about the software under review. Totally corrupt in my view. Is this the sort of thing in the NDA?

      • Justin Reply

        February 22, 2012 at 12:19 pm

        I don’t think DS gave himself (or us!) the opportunity to even see the proposed NDA.

        FWIW: I’m pissed off. I worked in a Dick Smith store as a kid, this guy is a hero of mine for the reasons he is a hero to many in this part of the world…

        And he’s just done a huge disservice to what I’ll call ‘the skeptic movement’ of which I consider myself a member.

        My bets are on Rossi and Defkalion either being frauds, or being Steorn style incompetents; fooling themselves into thinking they’ve achieved magical outcomes.

        [NB: I'll buy that LENR is real at some level]

        I -WANT- to be wrong about them, I -WANT- one or the other or both to have something real (although a small part of me fears that humanity with unlimited energy will find a way to crap on the planet trying to fix it)

        But Dick, you stuffed this, BIG TIME. Not only did you fail to be sufficiently rational and accommodating to **achieve** your goal of exposing a scam; but you acted and behaved in a manner that is only explained by your having FAITH that there was a scam, and DIDN’T NEED TO PRODUCE ANY EVIDENCE OF THAT – even when you were perhaps on the brink of doing so.

        Not only did you manage to not convince anyone who might or might not be sending money to a AR or D scam; you FAILED the skeptic community, because you FAILED to put your own FAITH BASED BELIEF to one side long enough to get to producible evidence.

        EVIDENCE, the stuff that matters, to skeptics at least – like for example a proposed, unreasonable, NDA.

        Goddamn it DS; you were supposed to be one of the good guys; and despite your patronage of Australian Skeptics, I’m a much better, much more principled skeptic than you. And that makes me sad.

        • psi Reply

          February 22, 2012 at 1:16 pm

          @ Justin:

          “I’m a much better, much more principled skeptic than you. And that makes me sad.”

          An entirely appropriate response. You forgot to mention that Mr. Smith found it impossible to state his objections without maligning Mr. Rossi and Defk. — Real skepticism, like your own, doesn’t require that, does it?

          That’s the difference between saying “My bets are on” and “They are…..” Who, at this stage, can disprove your bet? Others may chose a different bet — that’s our choice. If you are right, the judgments (and jail) will follow. If you are wrong, I get the impression you’ll be enough of a mensch to admit it.

          • Justin

            February 22, 2012 at 2:03 pm

            > “state his objections without maligning Mr. Rossi and Defk. — Real skepticism, like your own, doesn’t require that, does it?”

            No, but neither does it prohibit it. Forthright expressions of opinion don’t bother me (at least, I try not to let them – the faith-based very personal maligning of DS to me were worse, since he was an active participant at this forum); and expressions of opinion as-though they are fact seem to be part of the human condition.

            Anyway, that’s fine; that didn’t bug me. A lack of ‘I’ statements might not make for civilised discourse, but that is a different issue to -acting- and making impositions on faith based judgements (like offering $1M, or snatching away such an offer), while simultaneously portraying one’s self as a sceptic.

            > “If you are wrong…”

            I re-read my comment; there’s nothing there for me to be wrong about, except my revised impressions of DS. But I think you are alluding to the “my bets …” comment. It might be nit-picking, but that’s not actually disprovable, and I will probably continue to believe that based on the evidence available to me at the time, my bets were well placed — albeit losing ones.

            If I’m wrong about DS (despite the evidence heretofore) I will of course apologise.

            But above all, thank you for your civilised reply.

        • Ivy Matt Reply

          February 22, 2012 at 6:57 pm

          Ah, but at least he was scrupulous in refusing to lend any credibility to Defkalion.

  5. charles sistovaris Reply

    February 22, 2012 at 7:27 am

    A valid point made by Krivit :

    “Rossi confirmed that the invoice he sent to Millin was real but that it was canceled for nonpayment. Rossi also claimed that he licensed Energy Catalyzers to people in “practically all the world’s territories.” If this were true and if the licensing process were similar to the one shown here, then Rossi took money from people in “practically all the world’s territories” for a product that he did not have.”

    http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2012/02/21/brief-summaries-of-recent-new-energy-times-articles/

  6. Antonella Reply

    February 22, 2012 at 8:39 am

    @ AB

    would you please contact nikola.duper at gmail.com

    it is for sub on this http://vimeo.com/37164649

    Thank you :)

    • AB Reply

      February 22, 2012 at 11:07 am

      Fatto. Pare che altri si stanno già occupando di questo, comunque vedrò se posso aiutare. Il filmato è di quasi due ore!

      • valeria Reply

        February 22, 2012 at 7:32 pm

        Ciao AB
        no, nessuno se ne sa occupando: stamattina ti ho scritto la mail di Nikola da Passerini…

        nikola.duper at gmail.com

  7. georgehants Reply

    February 22, 2012 at 9:16 am

    Morning,Well as we come toward another possible demonstration that will confirm the Rossi discovery I have put my champagne back in the fridge.
    Only one thing to say, now is the time that the skeptics can do a little self analysis.
    Any skeptic that is Wishing that these tests are a failure, (regardless of what they say), is a very unpleasant and selfish person, as they are giving no thought to the millions who could gain from the technology.
    My personal view again, from the beginning I have stated, I believe 99.9% that Rossi is legit, that has not once made me ever put up a post encouraging others to think the same.
    Evey post I put is to say, do not abuse and prejudge and if this turns out bad I will say the same for the next scientist who is struggling against crazy irrational skeptics.
    I will repeat for the slow minds — Any skeptic that Hopes these tests fail is a very unpleasant and selfish person.
    (there are several exceptions, I will only mention one, the genuine people who are afraid that such a new technology could be dangerous for the World)
    Lets hope not.
    -
    “The Union of Concerned Scientists says the Bush administration manipulates and suppresses science. The administration points out that the Union of Bought and Paid for Scientists disagrees.”
    — fark.com

    • CuriousChris Reply

      February 22, 2012 at 9:43 am

      That’s the problem George. “99.9% convinced.” why should you be that convinced? Are you privy to something none of the rest of us are privy to?

      I am not even 1% convinced its real. Nor am I 1% convinced its a fake. I have seen nothing to cause any form of conviction, except well perhaps Rossi is incredibly good at shooting himself in the foot. Of that I am about 79.2357% convinced.

      The only realm for conviction is religion, oh and maybe LENR fraud.

      Wishing it was so, doesn’t make it so.

      • georgehants Reply

        February 22, 2012 at 9:51 am

        CuriousChris, please speed up your brain I clearly stated it was my personal opinion that I like anybody do not need to justify in any way.
        If I am STUPID enough to use my personal beliefs in anyway to distort the Truth or the search for the truth as many do, then I would be a pathetic waste of space.
        I will not answer anymore stupid questions.
        Do not anybody try and justify a position of hoping these tests fail.
        There are not any, (exceptions excepted) besides cheap personal gratification of thinking one was always right to abuse and deny.

        • CuriousChris Reply

          February 22, 2012 at 9:57 am

          You spend a great deal of your time ranting against those who would have an opinion other than yours. So yes you do use your personal beliefs we all do and its wrong to state otherwise.

          Please find a post of mine where I indicated I hoped LENR would fail. Quite the opposite is true. I actually felt quite sickened when I thought it was dead in the water. but recent events have revived my hopes.

          • georgehants

            February 22, 2012 at 10:00 am

            CuriousChris, please speed up your brain, did I say YOU, wake-up, I said anybody who thinks that way.
            It is like talking to a kindergarten except their lack of intellect is naturally exceptable.

          • dsm

            February 22, 2012 at 8:33 pm

            Chris

            You have to make allowances for George. He means well but when you engage him directly only do so if you intend agreeing with him 100%

            Else

            … (as you are seeing).

            Doug M

            (very Aspeger’s like behavior)

        • John Milstone Reply

          February 22, 2012 at 10:44 am

          George, I see that you’re in a particularly rude and insulting mood today.

          Maybe you should drink some of that champagne you talked about. Or maybe you’ve been drinking too much of it, and should stop.

          • georgehants

            February 22, 2012 at 10:47 am

            John Milstone , as you clearly cannot think of one single rational point or question I will ask you one —
            Do you hope the Defkalion trials are successful.
            Thank you.

          • John Milstone

            February 22, 2012 at 11:03 am

            George, of course I hope they are successful. A working, production-ready device of the type described by Rossi and Defkalion would massively change the world for the better.

            But Rossi’s behavior has been exactly what a con man would do (secret customers, secret factory, no independent testing, no demonstrations that exclude fraud, etc, etc, etc), so unless and until he finally provides some proof, it is reasonable to conclude that he can’t provide any proof.

            I am eagerly waiting to see the results of Defkalion’s testing. I suspect that they will fail to produce any proof that excludes the possibility of fraud, but I will carefully review whatever evidence they produce and base my judgement on that.

            Now, let me ask you a question: Are you even capable of posting a comment without being rude and insulting?

    • John Milstone Reply

      February 22, 2012 at 10:32 am

      George:

      If you don’t believe in Santa Claus, you must want there to be no Santa Claus, and that makes you a very selfish and unpleasant person.

      Your argument is silly. We would all love for this to be true. But truth doesn’t care what we want.

      Facts are facts, and wishful thinking is wishful thinking.

      And you don’t seem to be able to tell facts apart from wishful thinking.

      • georgehants Reply

        February 22, 2012 at 10:35 am

        John Milstone It may make you feel better to attack irrationally but you just make yourself look a fool.
        Please make one short point or objection that I have not already answered.

    • Ivy Matt Reply

      February 22, 2012 at 7:09 pm

      I hope for some advance similar what Rossi has claimed to achieve. The more likely I think it is to be true, the more hope I am able to spare for it.

  8. georgehants Reply

    February 22, 2012 at 9:18 am

    From Cold Fusion Times.
    Infinite Energy Editors Visit the JET Energy Cold Fusion/LANR Demonstration Setup at MIT
    Feb. 21, 2012 – William Zebuhr of Infinite Energy magazine examines the JET Energy Cold Fusion/Lattice Assisted Nuclear Reaction Solid State Open Demonstration setup at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (Cambridge, MA), after reviewing the data obtained during its month of operation at MIT. At this higher electrical input power level, the energy gain was 764% over input.
    http://world.std.com/~mica/cft.html

  9. Anders F Reply

    February 22, 2012 at 9:36 am

    NI Corroborates Rossi Statements

    This collaboration has been at the level that Rossi has frequently alluded to in his comments on JONP and, specifically to comments he made earlier this week. Over the past several months he has frequently stated that he was working with National Instruments on E-Cat development. I specifically asked Ms. Betts if these statements were exaggerations or outright lies on Mr. Rossi’s part and she informed me that THEY WERE NOT, and that indeed Mr. Rossi has been portraying Leonardo Corp’s work with National Instruments accurately.

    http://e-catsite.com/2012/02/21/ni-corroborates-rossi-statements/

    • Antonella Reply

      February 22, 2012 at 10:22 am

      thank you, Anders

    • georgehants Reply

      February 22, 2012 at 11:26 am

      Anders F, good find, always worth waiting for the Truth before prejudgement.

  10. SH Reply

    February 22, 2012 at 9:50 am

    Here you go Dickie.

    This is a list of the people you are going to publicly apologize to very soon for your fraud accusations and your rude, arrogant and insulting behaviour. This is NOT something you can weasel yourself out of.

    Andrea Rossi, Sergio Focardi, Guiseppe Levi and their co-workers and partners.

    Defkalion GT board:

    George Sortikos, born 1942 – Chairman 
    Engineer. Ex banker and industrialist (high tech ceramics). Ex president of the state owned Greek Industrial Investment Bank (ETBA) in 80-90s and founder of Omega Bank.(90s) 

    George Xanthoulis, born in 1987 – Deputy Chairman, 

    Aurel David, born in 1969 – Board member
    Swiss, Banker with vast experience in project finance and logistics. Ex president of a Montenegro Bank.

    Alexandros Xanthoulis, born 1954 – CEO, representative of Praxen
    Macro-Economics, Greek-Canadian. Former EU officer, Head for Energy and Financial Reconstruction EU delegation in Central Asia (90s).

    Christos Stremmenos, born 1932 – Board Member
    Chemical Engineer. Professor (retired) in the University of Bologna, ex Ambassador of Greece in Italy

    Ioannis Chatzichristos, born 1958 – Board Member
    Mathematics/Systems theory, vast experience in software development, management and IT project management. 

    Andreas Meidanis, born 1953 – Board Member
    Industrialist 

    Mouafak Saouachni, born 1961 – Board Member
    Medical doctor, Greek-Israeli, responsible in labour health and environmental safety

    Andreas Drougas, born 1945 – Board Member
    Mathematics/IT, ex-executive consultant in LARCO (Greek Nickel mining co, now state owned), vast experience in management consulting and IT

    …And the rest of DGTs employees and partners.

  11. Dale G. Basgall Reply

    February 22, 2012 at 10:23 am

    Reply to admin, statement; ” My confidence is dented but not destroyed.”

    The Mr. Dick Smith issue was a smoke out show, no validity, and a set up for whatever answer was intended.

    Defkalion could have just said come on over and let us fire this bad puppy up in front of you Mr. Smith, and started it up, (watching the gammas) watched it run 6 hours and ……. do ya think they would have ever collected the million? No should be the logical choice, why?

    It’s all about gaining publicity for someone, the public eye, why? I don’t know but it seems wrong for a man with Mr. Smiths wealth to make a mockery of the technology just because there are less than pleasant people working around it. He could offer the million for further development of the technology.

    This Mr. Smith thing would not have shown anyone if the Defkalion device is functional, it’s setting in a lab like a piece of art with no function other than to make it look like progress has been made.

    Why are the tests for weeks, can’t you tell if the thing is working in just a few hours? No is the answer because no substantial energy gain can be calculated in a short period of time. Kind of like the car in the garage that you wanted to restore.

    You got er up on blocks, no wheels, no seats and the transmission is missing but! The engine starts hard and runs on just a cylinder or two but it has a V-8 in it. The owner starts it up for you and sais look how good this thing runs.

    If it won’t drive and there is nothing to compare it to then you may have to hire a set of 7 mechanics to watch it run on blocks and tell you what the chances of it actually driving are, in a percentage while most are trying to find out if the engine is actually running cause they can’t see it or hear it running.

    That’s a great test and at this point in time is nothing more than time delays to make others think they have the working goods.

    Defkalion and Rossi have both proved to be rotten apples, the way they talk to others and the way they have been willing to deceive us is monumental. Why do we as people love to get lied to and we keep coming back for more.

    Because we know the technology has great potential when developed, it seems to be better for the environment than “burning” the fossil fuels into the atmosphere, but who is it better for, really?

    Mr. Smith should just let us all know what he thinks will come of all this. Just a straight up statement in reference to where he thinks this will head, a definite statement and not just well I think this is bogus, the claims that is, from Rossi and Defkalion but I am going to spend that million to further research and get this on the right path for all the public that I care about.

    Admin this event Mr. Smith should not make any difference in this site or your beliefs, just a direction has been viewed for you to take, like a message that tells you to watch for another development from someone else and search out if there are others working on LENR devices.

    Mr. Smith had no intentions of paying out that million or it would have gotten done already.

    • spacegoat Reply

      February 22, 2012 at 12:18 pm

      What a caricature of the reality. DGT lay on the most rigorous test possible and you call it evasive! LOL.

      This upcoming test excludes Production machines for perfectly valid reasons, that have been posted many times on this site, without any scientific riposte.

      I challenge Dale G. Basgall and DSM (georgehants asked if this is short for Dick Smith Miniature?) to come up with a scientific critique of the upcoming tests.

      The answer as to whether a new energy technology has been developed will be a scientific answer.

      Talk science gentleman (something that DSM refers to as gibberish, but don’t let that stop you).

      • dsm Reply

        February 22, 2012 at 8:38 pm

        spacegoat

        “Talk science gentleman (something that DSM refers to as gibberish, but don’t let that stop you).”

        Sorry but that is just emotive garbage. How am I supposed to respond to that ?. There is no response because it is more gibberish.

        I really am sorry that any of my questions posed offend you to the extent that you can’t be civil.

        I am sure we are mostly ordinary likeable people who in any other situation would get along well. Trading insults is emotive and hinders any progress. It shows a lack of control.

        Doug M

  12. georgehants Reply

    February 22, 2012 at 10:59 am

    As our Mr, Milstone seems to be having trouble understanding and answering my simple question perhaps I could make it general —-
    Is there anybody on these pages willing to say that they hope the Defkalion tests are a failure.

    • georgehants Reply

      February 22, 2012 at 11:06 am

      John Milstone reply to my above question —-
      February 22, 2012 at 11:03 am
      George, of course I hope they are successful. A working, production-ready device of the type described by Rossi and Defkalion would massively change the world for the better.
      But Rossi’s behavior has been exactly what a con man would do (secret customers, secret factory, no independent testing, no demonstrations that exclude fraud, etc, etc, etc), so unless and until he finally provides some proof, it is reasonable to conclude that he can’t provide any proof.
      I am eagerly waiting to see the results of Defkalion’s testing. I suspect that they will fail to produce any proof that excludes the possibility of fraud, but I will carefully review whatever evidence they produce and base my judgement on that.
      Now, let me ask you a question: Are you even capable of posting a comment without being rude and insulting?

      • georgehants Reply

        February 22, 2012 at 11:09 am

        John Milstone, it is wonderful to see that you are on the optimists side and cheering for Defkalion. Well Done.
        Have you put your champagne in the fridge to celebrate any success with the rest of us hopefuls.

  13. RonB Reply

    February 22, 2012 at 12:04 pm

    Karl Benz might have invented the first auto but Henry Ford is probably the one that most people today would claim to be the inventor because he made it available for the mass market. I can see some things in common with what’s going on in the LENR field.

    Curious how DGT doesn’t really even claim to have a LENR invention. I wonder what they call it?

    —- From DGT’s WebSite ——-
    Science
    Many have labeled Cold Fusion with positive and negative connotations. It has also been referred to as LENR and CANR. Most of these terms hold behind them thousands of hours of research work, all hoping to achieve the ultimate energy dream: limitless energy.

    However, overall, a stigma has created ambiguous feelings of aiming to reach the end of the rainbow. The science behind the products of Defkalion is none of the above, even though it is identified as such in current media coverage.

    ————– end of snip ———

    • spacegoat Reply

      February 22, 2012 at 12:21 pm

      They rightly have not called it anything other than a complex multistage reaction, because theory has not caught up yet.

      • SH Reply

        February 22, 2012 at 1:21 pm

        They call is ‘CALENR’

        Or chemical assisted low energy nuclear reaction

        ..from the hyperion spec sheet.

        • SH Reply

          February 22, 2012 at 1:24 pm

          is = it

  14. psi Reply

    February 22, 2012 at 1:06 pm

    I will pay .25 cents to Dick Smith if he’s man enough to apologize to BOTH Andrea Rossi and Defkalion (Def. being covered under the grandfather clause):

    http://e-catsite.com/2012/02/21/ni-corroborates-rossi-statements/

    This money has been placed in escrow in a small jar on top of my dresser drawer. I assure you that it is not funny money, but actual U.S. currency. The conditions are as follows:

    1) Dick Smith must write an email to each party, starting with a real salutation, viz “Dear Mr. Rossi.” Communications beginning “Dick Smith here” or similar locutions appropriate to a 13 year old California girl texting a member of her posse with the answers to the algebra quiz will be ignored and result in no payout.

    2) Dick Smith must include the words “I apologize” somewhere in the letter.

    3) Dick Smith is free to politely reiterate his opinion that LENR, or more specifically the technologies of Rossi and Def., are impossible, but he shall desist from further slander in this communication, or else it will be ignored and no payout will result.

    4) Dick Smith shall in the email include the explanation that, as a result of obtaining further information on Rossi’s discussions with N.I. via the online e-cat discussion community, he has reassessed his opinion of both LENR and the e-cat and is aware that there is some *possibility,* however slight, that neither is a fraud. He will state a willingness to be ruled by evidence, not prejudgment, and wish both parties the best of luck with their endeavors.

    This challenge is openly posted because I don’t have Dick Smith’s email and, frankly, can’t be bothered to find it. That would require actual work on my part, beyond the great expenditure of energy already undertaken to escrow said .25 cents and write this missive.

    Please note, however, that nothing in this communication (in sharp contrast to Mr. Smith’s repeated public statements about both Mr. Rossi and Defkalion), in any way defames or questions the integrity of Mr. Smith.

    This offer is good for forty-eight hours and may be redeemed by Mr. Smith’s reply on this forum with copies of said communiques including meta-data proving beyond reasonable doubt that the communications are legitimate.

    Best of luck.

    Gentlemen and Ladies, start your engines. We may have a winner here. Dick, think of all the good work you could do in the world with that .25 cents.

    Sincerely,

    Psi

    • Peter Roe Reply

      February 22, 2012 at 2:27 pm

      Just because you are wealthy enough to risk losing 25 cents, waving it around does not give you the right to try to dominate this forum with your obviously biased views, or to display your almost complete lack of knowledge and comprehension of the issues involved. In any case, how do we know you are the real psi, and have really put the money in your escrow jar – you could be anyone, just pretending to be who you say you are. You may not really have 25 cents. Or even an escrow jar.

      Besides, I don’t think your offer is genuine and that even when Dick Smith apologises to all and sundry (as I’m sure he plans to do anyway, even without your bombastic intervention) you will just find some way to weasel out of handing over the 25 cent prize.

      • SH Reply

        February 22, 2012 at 3:34 pm

        lol!

      • psi Reply

        February 24, 2012 at 8:52 pm

        Peter, I do have .25 cents and an escrow jar. I’m dead serious. I’m not in this because I have an inflated sense of self importance or need for attention, promise. In fact I will *prove* to you that I have the money. Just give me another day or two to find my camera cable and I will provide unquestionable proof that I am 100% serious about this.

  15. vbasic Reply

    February 22, 2012 at 3:36 pm

    Defkalion or Rossi doesn’t need Smith his 25 cents or his good opinion. Maybe a year ago that money may have helped them. But if their licensing reports are true, they may have 10x or 100x that available to them. It sounds like Smith wants a piece of the action and the publicity.

  16. Peter Hunt Reply

    February 22, 2012 at 5:20 pm

    Little Dickie is a clear four flusher.

    All hat and no cattle. Dance and promise but no delivery.

    I wonder who pays him for this act?

    • GreenWin Reply

      February 23, 2012 at 4:10 am

      We hear little dickie works for Intel. A bad chip that makes!

  17. Roger Bird Reply

    February 23, 2012 at 2:36 pm

    I don’t understand why secrecy would stop Dick Smith. What difference does a secret pact between Dick Smith and Defkalion make? He would still have a bet and would still embarrass Defkalion. Surely he should understand that Defkalion has trade secrets that they must protect at all costs.

    I am more inclined to believe that Defkalion called Dick Smith’s bluff. Dick Smith did not want to lose $1,000,000. He also did not want to look like a fool. Hey, Dickie, it’s too late.

    • RyanWLocke Reply

      February 24, 2012 at 9:52 pm

      How is it too late?

    • RyanWLocke Reply

      February 24, 2012 at 9:53 pm

      This thing hasn’t even started yet. Birdey

      • Roger Bird Reply

        February 26, 2012 at 4:49 am

        When someone calls someone else’s bluff, and the someone else backs down, the someone else looks like a fool.

  18. RyanWLocke Reply

    February 24, 2012 at 10:18 pm

    This is getting juvenile. Anybody heard anything bout tests.

  19. psi Reply

    February 25, 2012 at 3:21 am

    Patience, grasshopper.

  20. Jimbo Reply

    February 28, 2012 at 5:58 am

    Well I’m from Australia, and can state that Dick Smith is indeed a little odd. However, he is no idiot, and I fully agree that a test needs to be done. Dick et al have stated possible measurement errors, ie earth lead carrying current etc, so a proper test eliminating this is needed. Also any COP value <= chemical boosting, must also be eliminated.
    I believe in this technology, and have done since the original experiments in 1989. However I am suspicious at the BURST nature of this excess energy. I'm wondering if the overall output of the machine LONG TERM reduces down to what would be expected with conventional technology???
    WHY for the sake of all, can't an experiment be done that is completely unambiguous for all to see???
    Let's move this technology beyond the "faith" stage, to actual "IT WORKS", now lets find a theory to explain it, and get the technology out to everyone???
    Until then, I'm afraid I have to beleieve that all current claims are either fraudulant in whole, or part. The story so far is the same story as all other scams. So if this stuff works, CHANGE THE STORY!!!! NO MORE SCAM, just FACTS!!! (It's very hard to argue with FACTS!!!). PLEASE… SOMEONE…. MAKE THIS HAPPEN!!!!! FACTS!!!! NO MORE EXCUSES!!!!

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