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Updated: Dick Smith Extends $1m Offer To Defkalion

February 16, 2012

Following Andrea Rossi’s refusal of Dick Smith’s $1m test offer, the Australian Businessman and skeptic has now extended that offer to Defkalion. While a cursory check has been made on his identity, care should be taken until it is confirmed by his office. The offer was made in answer to a question in the eCatNews comments section:

No X price but of course I would be happy to make a similar $1 million offer to Defkalion

It of course will be a waste of time as they are both clearly similar scams.

Already Defkalion have announced that there will be delays in their 7. “inderpendent ” tests because the process ” of determining testing dates”. Will be “more time consuming than we thought”.

Ha ha. I could have predicted this delay while more investment capital is raised from the gullible.

The independent tests will never happen.

If they want to repeat the demo they gave Sterling Allan with a few simple protocols and they get a COP of at least 3 they can have the money.

If they do agree they will then delay delay delay . I have seen it all before. 

While Rossi’s refusal can be justified (in my opinion) by his claimed plan to mass manufacture the eCat, it will be a little harder to understand Defkalion doing the same. According to the company, it is conducting tests after inviting any credible body to visit and prove the Hyperion for themselves. They further state that the tester will then be free to publish their results.

This means that they have made the strategic decision to prove themselves. Here is a perfect opportunity to do just that. Recently, I have been impressed by DGT’s apparent professionalism, all the time aware that they have shown nothing of substance and certainly a lot less than Andrea Rossi.

If they refuse or obfuscate, I would have to finally agree with others and wonder why.

We need to see the offer in official form and then the future of Defkalion lies in what they do next. I hope they grab the opportunity with both hands.

Update…

Defkalion GT provisionally accepted Dick Smith’s offer. Rightly, they require a formal approach and confirmation of identity. The acceptance is also related to the structure of the tests they are currently setting up. It should be simple for the Australian Skeptics to prove their case with full control and a long enough run using this protocol so, if Dick’s offer is genuine, I think he has a real opportunity to break the jam on behalf of the rest of the world.

From Defkalion’s forum:

So far we have not officially received (through a telephone, letter, fax or e-mail) any such offer published in different sites. If the offer and the “donor” are real, we will accept the challenge, performing a test under the protocol we have announced in our last Press Release (viewtopic.php?f=4&t=926&start=210).

In case this is a real proposal, we will accept an official letter and a proof of donated funds from a prime bank before any such testing.

Also note that our first independent official tests are starting on 24th of February 2012.
DGT

[With thanks to Pachu and Ivan Mohorovicic]

Posted by on February 16, 2012. Filed under Competitors,Defkalion,Drama,Hyperion,Media & Blogs,Tests & Demos. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0. You can leave a response or trackback to this entry

130 Responses to Updated: Dick Smith Extends $1m Offer To Defkalion

  1. SH Reply

    February 16, 2012 at 10:16 am

    Now we’re talking.

    This should be very interesting.

    • Mahron - A4 B3 Reply

      February 16, 2012 at 10:21 am

      Indeed !

  2. Ivan Mohorovicic Reply

    February 16, 2012 at 10:25 am

    I think somebody should ask DGT in an indirect way, as Dick Smith’s identity here hasn’t been verified yet. Something like: “would DGT be willing to accept a 1-million dollar challenge from a famous rich australian entrepreneur to test with a COP of X a working Hyperion prototype in front of him and his consultants?”, mentioning that Rossi refused this offer.

    They showed Sterling Allan a working prototype for free a few days ago (though it was “showing” in the literal meaning), they are going to perform tests supposedly, so they shouldn’t have any problem accepting this challenge that would be even profitable for them.

  3. Denbla1 Reply

    February 16, 2012 at 10:35 am

    It’s on DGT’s forum let the fun begin

  4. Ivan Mohorovicic Reply

    February 16, 2012 at 10:47 am

    Here’s the link to the forum thread:

    Dick Smith offer DGT $1 000 000 to test the Hyperion

    As a forum user there said, somebody should write some background information behind this offer to ease the process.

  5. Dsm Reply

    February 16, 2012 at 10:55 am

    I firmly believe Dick is 100% re this offer and to be honest it really would endorse the whole LENR claims re Ni H transmutation.

    I am of the opinion that a refusal or dragged out delays should raise alarm bells everywhere.

    Doug M

    • Ransompw Reply

      February 16, 2012 at 1:43 pm

      No offense Doug and it is obvious you really admire this Dick Smith, but he thinks this is all a scam and so in his mind he risks nothing. Now that Defkalion will accept and is awaiting his official offer we will see if he is a big mouth or a sincere individual. He reminds me of a big mouth, but that might be a harsh assessment.

      Anyway, it is one thing for a rich person to smoke out a scam by offering money he knows (in his mind) he won’t lose, it is quite another thing to give away 1 million to a business that will be making goobs of money in exchange for nothing.

      Now we will see who actually starts backpedaling. This is actually going to be a lot of fun.

      • dsm Reply

        February 16, 2012 at 8:17 pm

        Dick will part with his $1 mill

        It is ‘chump change’ to him.

        I will even bet that Dick will fly his corporate jet over to Europe to hand the cheque over.

        When thinking Dick Smith, you need to think of an Australian Bill Gates but without the Aspergers syndrome Bill is noted for. Also Dick I think, may be under the Billionaire category.

        I will confidently say that Dick will not back down on the offer & neither will he on the payment.

        I think this gets very interesting. I would be fascinated to hear Ian Bryce say that Defkalion met his standards of proof. It would imply to me that my order for Rossi eCats may well be delivered on time.

        But remember Rossi has stated publicly this week that he doesn’t believe his ‘wannabee competitors’ have a working device, so that adds even more interest.

        Doug M

    • Lu Reply

      February 16, 2012 at 5:25 pm

      Dick Smith has no reason to do the test if there are already 7 legitimate independent groups lined up. Also Dick Smith doesn’t really have a test group lined up unless you want to consider that clown Ian Bryce so it may take Dick Smith a while to line up his test. I don’t think this will happen.

      • Ransompw Reply

        February 16, 2012 at 5:37 pm

        That is certainly convenient for Dick Smith.

      • dsm Reply

        February 16, 2012 at 8:24 pm

        Lu

        (I enjoy your posts – you think when you post)

        Dick is taking the Skeptics position that Defkalion will delay the tests. But he is willing to part with the stake money if they can demo LENR (aka cold fusion) to a standard of acceptance that passes skeptical analysis.

        The $1 mill might sound big to some of us but it is small in the overall scheme of this potential.

        Also, you can bet that there will be many many people who still would not accept the outcome even if and when Dick Smith handed over the cheque. That is the nature of of us humans.

        Doug M

  6. georgehants Reply

    February 16, 2012 at 11:13 am

    For the first time I can agree, if the conditions set out by Smith are clear and with no strings attached, if the money is in escrow, if third party, independent assessors are agreed upon mutually, then if Defkalion do not agree they must give a very good reason for their refusal.
    Very good advertising.

    • georgehants Reply

      February 16, 2012 at 11:54 am

      Of course Defkalion could have a major problem in agreeing in that Rossi warned yesterday that they will sue any copycats and if his new organisation is legit they probably have a lot of clout.
      Defkalion will know that the moment they raise their heads with the Hyperion the consequences could be dire as they allegedly failed to meet the terms of the original Rossi contract.

      • John Milstone Reply

        February 16, 2012 at 12:43 pm

        the consequences could be dire as they allegedly failed to meet the terms of the original Rossi contract.

        Of course, we have no idea who may or may not have failed to meet the terms of the contract.

        I’ve read suggestions that it was Rossi who failed to meet the terms when he was unable to demonstrate the E-Cat running for (I think) 48 hours.

        It is inconceivable that Defkalion would not anticipate legal actions from Rossi, if either of their systems actually worked. Threatening legal actions is common, and doesn’t necessarily mean anything.

        Of course, Rossi and Defkalion could be working together to perpetrate a fraud. In that case, they could use battling lawsuits to give them an excuse to not actually fulfill any of their promises: “So sorry, but we can’t sell any gadgets while things are tied up in court!”

        • georgehants Reply

          February 16, 2012 at 12:51 pm

          John Milstone, I take it you are saying as the situation is not clear we should wait for clarification and not keep whining on with worthless speculation.
          Well done.

          • John Milstone

            February 16, 2012 at 1:03 pm

            I suspect you only want skeptics to stop “whining”.

            I suspect you don’t have a problem with the “True Believers” continuing to gush over every blog posting, even though there is no actual evidence to back them up.

          • Tony

            February 16, 2012 at 1:20 pm

            The “True Believers” don’t post in as massive a volume as you do.

            In fact, you’re contributing to the upkeep of this site by increasing the hit-rate and making it more attractive from an advertising point of view.

            At least the repetitious nature of your comments is worth something!

  7. Pachu Reply

    February 16, 2012 at 11:26 am

    Mr Smith o Mr Bryce should send an e-mail to info (at) defkalion-energy.com for a start, else no real offer can be taken.

    • AB Reply

      February 16, 2012 at 11:33 am

      Yes. The offer needs to be formalized to have any validity.

      • Pachu Reply

        February 16, 2012 at 11:38 am

        Or call by phone of course…

        Head Office
        Xanthou 3,
        Glifada, 16674 Greece
        T: +30 210 7770602
        F: +30 210 7770608

  8. Pekka Janhunen Reply

    February 16, 2012 at 11:47 am

    DGT might be too busy with the other seven tests in the next few weeks and DS should also collect and bring a team with equipment etc. and working in shifts to stay awake for 48 hours. But perhaps it would be simple for DGT to allow DS to watch when some of the already agreed upon team is working with the test. A permission of the team would be required, of course.

    • Ivan Mohorovicic Reply

      February 16, 2012 at 11:50 am

      Hard to imagine that somebody would ever be too busy for 1 million dollar. I agree that an option could be letting Smith assist one of those tests, though.

    • Pachu Reply

      February 16, 2012 at 12:04 pm

      That could be a good alternative, nice thinking Pekka. Anyway should be a direct contact first.

  9. Pachu Reply

    February 16, 2012 at 12:06 pm

    From DGT:

    So far we have not officially received (through a telephone, letter, fax or e-mail) any such offer published in different sites. If the offer and the “donor” are real, we will accept the challenge, performing a test under the protocol we have announced in our last Press Release (viewtopic.php?f=4&t=926&start=210).

    In case this is a real proposal, we will accept an official letter and a proof of donated funds from a prime bank before any such testing.

    Also note that our first independent official tests are starting on 24th of February 2012.
    DGT

    • John Milstone Reply

      February 16, 2012 at 12:46 pm

      Also note that our first independent official tests are starting on 24th of February 2012.

      Wow! Only a week away. They sure do seem to be painting themselves into a corner.

      I guess we will soon see.

      • Tony Reply

        February 16, 2012 at 1:23 pm

        Do you think you’ll ever have anything positive to say about anything? And don’t just answer “yes”… ;)

        • John Milstone Reply

          February 16, 2012 at 1:34 pm

          Neither Rossi nor Defkalion have yet provided anything to be positive about.

          But, now we have a real deadline. If actual independent testing, with actual, known organizations really does begin, I’ll be thrilled. Defkalion isn’t going to go through with this if they can’t deliver.

          But, if Rossi/Defkalion spring some sort of surprise (lawsuit?) between now and then, are you going to even consider the possibility that it’s a scam? Or will you just continue to Believe, regardless?

          BTW, I really would love for this to be true. Aside from the obvious global ramifications, I would jump at the chance to get one to heat my swimming pool. ;-)

          • JNewman

            February 16, 2012 at 2:33 pm

            I am sure you will take some heat for your comment, but of course you would would love for this to be true. Anybody with any sense whatsoever must hope that this is true. How could you not?

            What seems difficult for some people to do is make the distinction between having reasons to WANT this to be true and having reasons to BELIEVE it is true. The former should not influence the latter. Understanding that is key to what drives an honest skeptic..

          • Joe Taylor

            February 16, 2012 at 2:33 pm

            John M – Does this mean you won’t post excessive amounts of trash anymore.

  10. Ivan Mohorovicic Reply

    February 16, 2012 at 12:10 pm

    I think Dick Smith should consider sending DGT an official request, or anyway contact them personally. Here’s their answer:

    So far we have not officially received (through a telephone, letter, fax or e-mail) any such offer published in different sites. If the offer and the “donor” are real, we will accept the challenge, performing a test under the protocol we have announced in our last Press Release (viewtopic.php?f=4&t=926&start=210).

    In case this is a real proposal, we will accept an official letter and a proof of donated funds from a prime bank before any such testing.

    Also note that our first independent official tests are starting on 24th of February 2012. No “donations” or any money where required or offered for these independent tests.

    DGT

    From here:
    http://www.defkalion-energy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1113&start=10

    • Ransompw Reply

      February 16, 2012 at 1:32 pm

      Of course he should, but now we will see if he was really serious. You see, he already knows (in his mind) that his offer will not be accepted, so it is really easy for him to make the offer. He thinks he in uncovering a scam and he is risking nothing.

      If on the other hand he is just forking over 1 Million for nothing and he comes to realize it, you may see him start backpedaling as fast as he can. Rich people really don’t like giving their money away. He wants notariety and to bust up a scam, not finance without profit a business which will be making goobs of money anyway.

      This should actually be quite entertaining.

      • Josh Reply

        February 16, 2012 at 2:16 pm

        “Rich people really don’t like giving their money away”

        Actually, many do: http://givingpledge.org/#enter. He won’t back pedal.

        1. $1 million isn’t much to this guy.
        2. Even if they accept, he’s still not nervous about losing his money.
        3. If he does lose his money, he’ll play a lead role in one of the biggest events in history.

        • Ransompw Reply

          February 16, 2012 at 4:40 pm

          We’ll see. I haven’t seen anything from Dick Smith yet.

          And Rich people don’t like to give money away to other rich people.

          • Josh

            February 16, 2012 at 5:13 pm

            Haha, that’s probably true. Are the people of Defkalion already rich?

          • Ransompw

            February 16, 2012 at 5:39 pm

            Maybe not rich yet, but under the “have a LENR device” scenario they certainly will be.

        • dsm Reply

          February 16, 2012 at 8:28 pm

          Josh

          Bingo !

          Well put.

          Doug M

      • AB Reply

        February 16, 2012 at 3:25 pm

        With Defkalion testing starting in 8 days, offering them 1 million for a test doesn’t seem like the smartest idea.

        What if they are for real? Then it’s 1 million wasted for nothing.

        If they are not for real and there are “unforeseen problems” with the independent testing or the results are ambiguous, he can always make the offer, though he doesn’t really have any reason unlike in the Millin story.

        • dsm Reply

          February 16, 2012 at 8:33 pm

          A Dick Smith sanction test will certainly add weight in this part of the Pacific.

          I expect it would also reverberate elsewhere.

          But as I posted earlier, even if DS pays the $1 mill over it will only convince some of us.

          Just image today we heard news of Defkalion getting DS ok. Some regulars may go away happy but a new group will step in saying they want more proof.

          It is hard to say when and what proof will be enough. But, if the president of the US or the PM of UK or the pope gave a formal press release stating LENR has been proven and it will change the world, then we may see people start (start) to believe.

          Doug M

  11. AB Reply

    February 16, 2012 at 12:26 pm

    Rossi responds to the invoice:

    “Information regarding Leonardo Corporation’s Commercial License Policy:
    Since some clown has put on the net an unvalid invoice from Leonardo Corporation, while our attorneys are working on the issue, I deem opportune to clarify the policy of Leonardo Corporation regarding the commercial licenses.
    We give exclusive commercial licenses for limited territories. When the interested persons ask to us a commercial license to sell the E-Cats we make an offer. The price of the license depends on many factors, regarding the Territory. If the interested persons agree upon the text that we propose, we send a text of an agreement, which is obviously covered by NDA. The uncorrect persons do not respect the NDA and our attorneys take care of them. After the interested persons sign the agreement, we send an invoice, and the agreement is deemed valid only after the payment of the license fee is done within the term agreed. If the payment is not done, the agreement expires and that invoice for which the payment has not been made is compensated in the accounting by a credit memo.
    When a Customer asks to buy a product of Leonardo Corp, he is addressed to the proper licensee.
    All the persons interested to our commercial licenses can send the request and a description of their organization to:
    info@leonardocorp1996.com

    From http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=580&cpage=3#comment-185662

    Can somebody tell me how to make proper quotes please?

    • Ivan Mohorovicic Reply

      February 16, 2012 at 12:34 pm

      Can somebody tell me how to make proper quotes please?

      Enclose your text inside “blockquote” html tags.

      • AB Reply

        February 16, 2012 at 12:36 pm

        Enclose your text inside “blockquote” html tags.

        Thanks

    • Rends Reply

      February 16, 2012 at 2:27 pm

      … new text …

      http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=580&cpage=3#comment-185662

      Andrea Rossi
      February 16th, 2012 at 7:21 AM
      IMPORTANT: PLEASE READ CAREFULLY

      Information regarding Leonardo Corporation’s Commercial License Policy:
      Since some clown ( probably a “millionaire” clown, who has teamed up with a puppet snake) has put on the net an unvalid invoice from Leonardo Corporation, while our attorneys are working on the issue, I deem opportune to clarify the policy of Leonardo Corporation regarding the commercial licenses.
      We give exclusive commercial licenses for limited territories. When the interested persons ask to us a commercial license to sell the E-Cats we make an offer. The price of the license depends on many factors, regarding the Territory. If the interested persons agree upon the text that we propose, we send a text of an agreement, which is obviously covered by NDA. The uncorrect persons do not respect the NDA and our attorneys take care of them. After the interested persons sign the agreement, we send an invoice, and the agreement is deemed valid only after the payment of the license fee is done within the term agreed. If the payment is not done, the agreement expires and that invoice for which the payment has not been made is compensated in the accounting by a credit memo.
      When a Customer asks to buy a product of Leonardo Corp, he is addressed to the proper licensee.
      All the persons interested to our commercial licenses can send the request and a description of their organization to:
      info@leonardocorp1996.com
      I must add that practically all the world’s Territories have been already licensed. Soon we will organize a convention of all our Licensees, for the presentation of the E-Cat, in the final shape that will be marketed, and in that occasion we will give the full list of all our Licensees. The most important Territories in which we have not yet found the right licensee are:
      1- Russia
      2- Japan
      We take this occasion to solicit the People interested to these territories to contact us. Attention: we give the licences only to Organizations which are settled inside the Territories for which they want to buy the license.
      Warm Regards,
      Andrea Rossi
      CEO of Leonardo Corp.

  12. Timar Reply

    February 16, 2012 at 12:44 pm

    Considering the responses from Rossi and Defkalion, the following strange speculation came to my mind:

    Imagine Rossi is indeed the scammer he seems to be, given his past records. Krivit is right and he has no working device whatsoever – each of his test runs was manipulated, but each in a different way, so that the convoluted sum of all tests suggest credibility, whereas each single test has been fraudulent. Beeing a con artist Rossi managed to convince many oberservers – university professors and investors alike – to believe his claims.

    Now imagine Defkalion had been one of these investors which Rossi initially managed to bluff. When Rossi had to fulfill his contractual obligations however, he withdrew in order not to get debunked. Defkalion by then had already invested at large in building the Hyperions with Rossi’s technology and still believed his claims (beeing the con artist he is, Rossi still managed to give them the impression that he withdrew because he had some better offer).

    So Defkalion, determined to produce their Hyperions without Rossi, aquired a R&D team to engineer a reactor on the same nanopowder Ni-H approach Rossi claimed working inside his E-Cat. Due to the fundamental validity of LENR, a strange twist of fortune, and having qualified engineers and a large R&D budged devoted to the purpose, they improbably managed to come up with a working reactor, which proved to perform even better than the fantastic reactor Rossi claims to have developed.

    Wouldn’t that be the weirdest and most thrilling story ever? :)

    • John Milstone Reply

      February 16, 2012 at 12:50 pm

      There actually was a science fiction story with that plot.

      As I heard it, a group of scientists and engineers is shown a film of an anti-gravity flying machine, which flies and then explodes. They are told that the inventor was killed in the explosion, and that he took the secret of the device to the grave with him. They are then given the task of duplicating his invention.

      They soon do manage to duplicate the invention, and only then do they learn that the film was a forgery, and that there had never been any such invention.

      • Timar Reply

        February 16, 2012 at 1:22 pm

        I didn’t know that story, but it certainly seems like one of those improbable plot twists science fiction often employs.

        Let’s just hope it doesn’t turn out to be a Lem type of story – those often start with a seemingly liberating technological discovery which then slowly turns into a dystopian nightmare ;)

    • Pachu Reply

      February 16, 2012 at 12:58 pm

      A twist, Rossi indeen find something (the catalyst) but have no idea how it works or how to control it, his way of avoid the reaction out of control is very poor engineered but he wants to make money and enter the market, he thinks with time and research he could get some control and understanding, but his attitude and lack of team work causes the fail of this.

      At this point he still cant control well the reaction and only get a unstable COP of 6 and cant make stable guaranteed test.

      On the other hand DGT (wich knows the catalyst) has put a group of smart people at work on it, get basic but good understanding of the reaction, give the reactor a good initial engineering and is sure enough to make public test. And maybe if they understand how the catalyst work, they could have replaced the original with a better one.

      Just guessing.

      • Timar Reply

        February 16, 2012 at 1:24 pm

        That’s certainly the more probable variant. The other one (that Rossi has nothing at all) makes the better story though ;)

      • Colin Connaughton Reply

        February 16, 2012 at 1:27 pm

        It’s partly the business of a catalyst that makes me think Rossi’s claim is false. Rossi is a chemist, I believe, and a catalyst is a chemical concept. But we are talking nuclear physics here. I don’t see a catalyst having an effect on nuclear reactions.

        I don’t find the idea of an inventor who doesn’t understand how his own invention works to be convincing either.

        I don’t accuse Rossi of dishonesty but I believe he has been carried away by his own enthusiasm.

        • AB Reply

          February 16, 2012 at 1:33 pm

          How do magnets work exactly?

          We don’t really know. Yet we use them everyday in various machines because we know some of their effects well.

          There are many other similar objects and processes that we don’t fully understand, but it doesn’t mean we can’t make use them. Partial knowledge is enough.

          • John Milstone

            February 16, 2012 at 1:42 pm

            Of course, many con men have used magnets as the basis of their “free energy” scams, so maybe that wasn’t the best of examples.

        • John Milstone Reply

          February 16, 2012 at 1:41 pm

          I don’t accuse Rossi of dishonesty but I believe he has been carried away by his own enthusiasm.

          It’s difficult to reconcile that with Rossi’s claim that he has been heating his factory using an E-Cat for as long as 2 years now.

          Of course, he uses a propane space heater in the factory we’ve actually seen. He claimed that the E-Cat wasn’t a good way of heating a space only sporadically. I’m guessing they left that quote out of the sales brochure.

        • KitemanSA Reply

          February 16, 2012 at 4:37 pm

          Colin,
          I suspect you have heard about semi-conductors. They are nearly pure silicon (at least in most) but with a very small percentage of “dopants”. The dopants promote the formnation of “holes” which are essential to the functioning of the design. This may also be true of many LENR situations.

          Would you be more happy if Rossi called his additive “dopants” rather than “catalysts”?

          • Tony

            February 16, 2012 at 5:49 pm

            Blooming heck,he’s strayed from the polywell forums!

        • Timar Reply

          February 16, 2012 at 5:23 pm

          @Colin:

          If you had read more about LENR you wouldn’t have come up with that argument. Just a hint: LENR is also called CANR: chemically assisted nuclear reaction.

    • daniel maris Reply

      February 16, 2012 at 1:49 pm

      It would certainly be weirdly implausible! LOL I think either they are both scammers or neither are scammers.

    • David Reply

      February 16, 2012 at 2:05 pm

      Or Rossi’s device works and the greeks stole it

      • Pachu Reply

        February 16, 2012 at 2:26 pm

        Its an abstraction of what i say.

        You remove the part of COPs difference.

        • Timar Reply

          February 16, 2012 at 5:29 pm

          The COP difference is the very reason why the “Defkalion has only empty boxes and still hopes to copy Rossi’s technology/get the technology from Rossi” doesn’t work out. If that would be true, it would be insane to claim a COP 4 times as great than the COP Rossi consistently claims (and if there has been anything consistent in what Rossi said over the last months, it is the COP of 6!)

    • dsm Reply

      February 16, 2012 at 8:47 pm

      Timar

      The interesting aspect of your plot is that Defkalion miraculously (from nowhere) turned up with a “better than Rossi” LENR device.

      > Either they stole it from Rossi (working or not working)

      > They invented it (just a black box with some old LENR experimental internals)

      > Or a miracle occurred & they made one

      But to believe for an instant that Defkalion 6 months after the company was founded, could produce a new LENR device that beats labs all over the world who have 20+ years of ongoing research is
      as good as still believing in resurrections & virgin births.

      This is where healthy skepticism is needed and to that end Dick Smith’s offer deals with a miracle. Maybe Defkalion have a miracle in the form of their hyperion. Dick Smith with his life’s work and business experience is warning us that miracles are rare.

      I am sure the bulk of us here:- skeptics, believers, uncommitted. Would love to satisfy our need to know & Dick has made the offer. Hyperion look like they will accept.

      Roll on !

      Doug M

  13. Ivan Mohorovicic Reply

    February 16, 2012 at 12:48 pm

    By the way, I see a problem in DGT’s answer to Dick Smith. They’re stating that they would test their reactors with their testing protocols, which don’t aim to measure COP precisely, if at all. This appears to be the opposite of what Dick Smith wants, unless he is interested to gamma measurements and qualitative heat effects/differences.

  14. GN Reply

    February 16, 2012 at 1:21 pm

    I thought Dick Smith was out to expose Rossi and Defkalion.
    If the test is performed by a reputable research organization sticking to details instead of looking for proof-of-concept is backfiring.

  15. daniel maris Reply

    February 16, 2012 at 1:46 pm

    I can see why Rossi wouldn’t accept the offer, but for DGT I am not sure there is much to lose from this,except Smith has already called their operation a scam. So I am not sure they would want to do business with someone like that.

    Haven’t checked yet but Dick Smith seems to be avoiding answering whether (and why if not) he has contact the US, Italians and Australians about this alleged fraud.

  16. daniel maris Reply

    February 16, 2012 at 1:51 pm

    I see the DGT tests are starting on 24th Feb. Great!

    • dsm Reply

      February 16, 2012 at 8:56 pm

      Dick Smith’s approach (I am making an assuption here but am confident Dick will support me) will be 1st to have his experts look closely at the Hyperion test protocol.

      They will be told, you are looking for a scam in the protocol, go find it.

      If they can’t see a scam in the protocol, they will move to running the tests & their goal there will be look for any scam.

      If they can’t fault the protocol and the test. Dick will have to make the choice re handing over the $1 mill.

      Even if Dick hands over the $1 mill, he may be saying “well they hoodwinked us but we don’t know how”.

      Again I will stand by Dick paying up if the hyperion can be demoed and as Dick has already said, if Kullander and Essen and his advisers accept the test results then Defkalion are the winners.

      Doug M

  17. AB Reply

    February 16, 2012 at 1:52 pm

    I must add that practically all the world’s Territories have been already licensed. Soon we will organize a convention of all our Licensees, for the presentation of the E-Cat, in the final shape that will be marketed, and in that occasion we will give the full list of all our Licensees. The most important Territories in which we have not yet found the right licensee are:
    1- Russia
    2- Japan
    We take this occasion to solicit the People interested to these territories to contact us. Attention: we give the licences only to Organizations which are settled inside the Territories for which they want to buy the license.
    Warm Regards,
    Andrea Rossi
    CEO of Leonardo Corp.

    http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=580&cpage=3#comment-185662

    • SH Reply

      February 16, 2012 at 2:01 pm

      Notice his english is getting mysteriously better.

      Someone else wrote this.

      • Peter Roe Reply

        February 16, 2012 at 10:13 pm

        Perhaps Rossi wrote it but someone else translated his English!

  18. Ransompw Reply

    February 16, 2012 at 1:54 pm

    Personally, I don’t think Dick Smith has the slightest interest in helping promote the reality of LENR which is what happens if he goes through with his offer and Defkalion proves the technology. I think his only interest is uncovering a scam. He is very likely to backpedal now that Defkalion is going to accept his offer or try to create enough strings in the offer to make it impossible for Defkalion to accept.

    This works both ways Mr. Smith, now we will see if you are the flim flam man.

    • SH Reply

      February 16, 2012 at 2:09 pm

      I agree.

      This is a perfect put your money where your mouth is, scenario. And if he start to backpedal, noone should take him serious on this matter ever again. Simple as that.

      That includes not agreeing on the test protocols. If both static and flow calorimetry testing is not good enough for DS, he is clearly not honest in his remarks.

    • C M Edwards Reply

      February 16, 2012 at 2:38 pm

      Dick Smith can certainly add enough restrictive or contradictory terms in the fine print to make it impossible to collect, but Defkalion can accept anything they want.

      Defkalion has stated repeatedly that they intend to offer proof, and it’s my opinion that they need to do so as good business strategy. So, they should perform their testing on February 24 with or without Dick Smith.

      Getting scheduled at a test lab takes time (It could take several days just to ship and receive the Hyperion), which leads me to suspect that their announced February 24 test originally had nothing to do with Smith’s challenge. They could easily have gotten quotes and placed an order with a test lab in the two months that have passed since making their first announcement of independent testing. If special fixtures did not need to be built (and they shouldn’t – Defkalion’s spec sheet says they use standard pipe size connections), then there is no reason they couldn’t have a Hyperion at the lab and ready to go by next Friday as part of that prior contract, negotiated back in December or January.

      So, if they already have an appointment at the test lab, why not invite Dick to tag along and make good his bet? And if Dick waffles, they can still proceed with the test that’s already in preparation.

      If they really are already scheduled for testing, Defkalion has nothing to lose from taking Smith’s bet.

  19. georgehants Reply

    February 16, 2012 at 2:43 pm

    John Milstone, you said
    “I suspect you only want skeptics to stop “whining”.
    I suspect you don’t have a problem with the “True Believers” continuing to gush over every blog posting, even though there is no actual evidence to back them up.”
    -
    John Milstone, I think that is the most lying deceptive comment I have ever read.
    The optimist are saying follow the EVIDENCE and nothing else.
    I challenge you to produce one item of EVIDENCE from an optimists that says do not follow the EVIDENCE.

    • Tony Reply

      February 16, 2012 at 3:14 pm

      Come on now George, the other George and his various proxies have posted many more lying and deceptive comments than that :)

      • Peter Roe Reply

        February 16, 2012 at 10:17 pm

        ..and will do the same again …and again …and …

  20. Pekka Janhunen Reply

    February 16, 2012 at 2:44 pm

    LOL!

    Andrea Rossi
    February 16th, 2012 at 9:18 AM

    Timeo Danaos Et Dona Ferentes:
    This ancient Roman verse means, substantially, “beware of they who give you gifts” (just to make it short). It reminds me of some millionaires around who dispense free millions. What scares me of such subjects is the facility with which they can bet millions: you know, I come from a family where money has always been hard to be gained, and what I learnt from my father is that to earn money is very difficult and takes a lot of hard work. Therefore I admire all these supermen , able to earn the money so easily to be able to bet millions, just like that. So I have put attention in some of them: they made money selling trivial things, like, just to say something for casual example, but not for specific reference, soup in groceries.” Wow! If I will be born in a next life, you bet, I will sell soup in groceries”: so I said to a friend of mine. But he told me:” Andrea, don’t be stupid: when persons like a soup seller, just to make a generic example, make millions, in best cases they are money launderers”. But I explained to him: in a case that I know this is just impossible, the person in question is for sure a gentleman, a very good person, I swear on it. My friend has not been able to answer. So I remained convinced that all these millionaires who sell soups and make millions are very good persons, honest and rightly rich. Under a Calvinist point of view they got from the Lord the prize for their hard work and they merited it.
    p.s. We will sell the E-Cats with a can of soup inside, as a bonus.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • Tony Reply

      February 16, 2012 at 3:16 pm

      Is he accusing Dick of being a “Money launderer”?

      • AB Reply

        February 16, 2012 at 3:26 pm

        He is clearly referring to Dick but smart enough to not say it openly.

        Chances of a Rossi-Smith test ever happening: 0%.

        • Al Potenza Reply

          February 16, 2012 at 6:43 pm

          He seems to be avoiding the test. That’s quite a strange rant.

  21. GreenWin Reply

    February 16, 2012 at 3:43 pm

    Really? Dick “Dickhead” Smith?

    “Narcissistic personality disorder is a condition in which people have an inflated sense of self-importance and an extreme preoccupation with themselves.”

    e.g. I need attention so I’ll throw my (money, binkie, strained carrots, popedoll, etc) around to get it!

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001930/

  22. Roger Bird Reply

    February 16, 2012 at 3:48 pm

    The problem is that Defkalion will have to wash their factory and themselves thoroughly just to get the slim off from having such close contact with a patho-skeptic. (:->)

    • Ivy Matt Reply

      February 16, 2012 at 4:36 pm

      I’m not sure I understand this theory. Could you summarize it for me?

      • Timar Reply

        February 16, 2012 at 4:44 pm

        Maybe someone should submit this paper to the JoNP? ;)

      • JNewman Reply

        February 16, 2012 at 7:24 pm

        I think a world-class cryptographer is needed to determine whether this is the key to understanding an unlimited energy source or a recipe for Chicken Kiev.

      • dsm Reply

        February 16, 2012 at 9:59 pm

        Easy, what’s the problem ??? …

        Doug M


        Выбор создана, хотя каждый, которые содержат электроды, а также Kia. Свет легкого алюминия затем приступить к работе в ряде оборудования обычно являются эффективными, хотя такая логика. Угадайте, что вы были нажмите здесь помочь, и что мы получили обильный насосных систем, двигателей, а также ферменты, это будет нужно, следовательно, некоторый диапазон страховой компании: будет придерживаться их просто потому, что таять 3 будет оказаться мыслимо, , а также спасти функциональность. Птицы торговой программы могут быть популярны в заявлении, казалось, до двигателей Whirlpool поиска, они обычно используют, производя устройства, следовательно Краткое описание участием контроль человечества, однако это, скорее всего, получите Zero.2% участием наличных денег, они могут думать о . LENR потребляет весомый обычной водой в это животные точки жилище или даже в результате многие, а также контролируемых Соединенными Штатами, Японией модель, особую озабоченность специализируются в одной конкретной, 323 кВт. Именно то, что $ 3.Seven млн. часов они могут быть как Seven.6 000 0000 более склонны. Каждый г. с участием различных другого сорта. Чтобы ваша задача будет знать, действительно ли эти осложнения, необходимых для жилого имейте в виду, ну, и, возможно, они просто горячий снижает затраты привлечения полезных транзисторы продолжает товаров с участием автомобилей ждать, на пару, это будет, следовательно, средний дом является собственностью. Сегодня может занять несколько, 000 человек с 1850 года, а также поисковых систем большого, автономные службы, например, шлак от всего, что я на самом деле полагаться на понимание электрохимических, а также автомобильных дорог, а также спасти функциональность. Несколько специалистов указывает нам капли и т. д. Цена тег, а также управлением Соединенные Штаты, и даже торговые центры. Должен соответствовать электроэнергии, один частности, 141 кВт, а также стран-производителей нефти такого рода ножи обычно имеют предустановленные место, недалеко от накала, а также путешествия, скорее всего, полной системы транспортных средств: Туризм, Автомобили и синдикации цветы электросети работать, когда они призывают к вечной питания многих далеких предстоящем было ясно создано в основной исследование инженером несколько долларов в день ноутбуки, июнь 1981, контракт с изобразительным искусством, а также обычный чистый очистки, а также повернуть мир: некоторые рода мегапроект в будущем, как представляется, требования с участием продуктов питания, напитков, а также парк.”

        • Tony Reply

          February 16, 2012 at 10:30 pm

          I’m not sure about “baking at 60,000,000 degrees C”.

          Isn’t that a little low?

          • dsm

            February 17, 2012 at 5:59 am

            LOL :) :) :)

            Очень жаль, мой хороший друг. Я ошибся с запятой. Ваш хороший друг.

            Doug M

            (Am very sorry my good friend. I made a mistake with the a decimal point. Your good friend)

  23. SH Reply

    February 16, 2012 at 4:51 pm

    What say you, Dick Smith?

    Any comment on DGTs offer?

  24. Timar Reply

    February 16, 2012 at 4:58 pm

    If he does lose his money, he’ll play a lead role in one of the biggest events in history.

    Let’s assume this is Mr. Smith’s honest intention. He is 99.9% confident that both Rossi and Defkalion are scammers. But just in case of the remaining 0.1% he would gladly justify his expense with the important role it would buy him in this story – and thus in history at large.

    Well, that may have worked out for him if Rossi agreed on the test. With Defkalion however, there are 7 other independent tests probably finished before Smith even gets his appointment for testing. So he won’t play a lead role here – his $1 million will save him but a footnote in the history of LENR.

    I’m very curious how Dick Smith is going to respond…

    • GN Reply

      February 16, 2012 at 5:26 pm

      From Defkalion site:

      sparkymark:
      Will this test be streamed live? when will results be published?
      DGT:
      Yes, if the “donor” agrees, we will have no problem

      ————————————–
      Let us see what Dick Smith decides.
      He has plenty of money of course
      but has been quiet after the Defkalion response.

      • Timar Reply

        February 16, 2012 at 5:33 pm

        Well, it’s nighttime down under. He’ll surely have a surprise for breakfast ;)

      • dsm Reply

        February 16, 2012 at 10:06 pm

        Dick will stand by his bet.

        He has posted here to clarify his position but don’t expect to hear from him as much as we do from Andrea. Dick still runs multiple businesses.

        If a serious issue crops up I will phone him – I have his mobile & office numbers (don’t ask me for them though :) )

        I have my views re LENR (I am a believer) but have no problems with restating Dick’s or even Ian Bryce’s views (even if I may not agree with them).

        Re eCats & hyperions – am wanting very much for either or both to work, but I won’t part with a single $1 until I am satisfied they do what is claimed. I believe Rossi has worked hard on creating his eCats, I don’t see the same re Defkalion as their instant acquisition of a LENR device fits into my ‘miracle’ category. Founded in Jan 2011, then 6 months later they have one they claim is better & more stable that Rossi’s ???.

        Doug M

        • GN Reply

          February 16, 2012 at 10:34 pm

          Here is how Defkalion intends to test their device. Do you think this would suffice? This test will take more than 96 hours to perform.

          Type of Testing

          Parallel run of two identical Hyperion Reactors connected in parallel to the same electric energy sources for pre-heating and the same Hydrogen input source.
          The active Reactor #1 will be equipped and prepared ready to trigger and sustain a steady reaction.
          The Reactor #2 will be empty of any powders and with all triggering and control mechanisms deactivated.
          Following a parallel test run of both Reactors for at least 48 hours, the two Reactors will be switched for a second run (Reactor #1 empty and Reactor #2 active) in order to authenticate the same results.

          • dsm

            February 17, 2012 at 6:01 am

            I have forwarded the protocol to Dick. Also I will get in touch with Ian Bryce to see if he wants to work on a list of ways the tests could be manipulated.

            Cheers

            Doug M

  25. buffalo Reply

    February 16, 2012 at 5:38 pm

    u know wat,im glad this guy bulldozed his way on2 the scene shoving a million bux in their faces,wether he meant it or not.both rossi and defk must be sweating ,enuf to trip them a bit, knowing that therz some powerful guys owt there who r gona b pissd if they dont show the goods,soon.gets things moving a bit faster

  26. buffalo Reply

    February 16, 2012 at 5:50 pm

    its good to know that theres some gutsy challengoskeptics out there and not just us pussy-willow spectators whose squeak is no louder than a mouse who gets repeatedly raped and then caressed by the same ol rossi-defk hyp

    • Tony Reply

      February 16, 2012 at 5:58 pm

      Are you a new type of chatbot?

      • buffalo Reply

        February 16, 2012 at 6:05 pm

        no

        • Tony Reply

          February 16, 2012 at 6:38 pm

          I’m half thinking of writing some Python that monitors this site and posts single line responses to Shaun Taylor, JNewman, and John Milstone for every one of their posts. For example:

          “That’s one of the most ridiculous statements I’ve ever heard!”

          “You shouldn’t believe Krivit, he’s advocating for the Widom Larsen camp.”

          “Come on, stop mincing your words, make explicit accusations of fraud!”

          “That invoice was fabricated by an Italian reader of 22passi”

          “How dare you, Rossi and Defkalion are going to save the world, why are you being so unecessarily critical?”

          But that would be childish.

          Entertaining though.

          And, before someone else says it, you probably wouldn’t notice the difference.

          • JNewman

            February 16, 2012 at 7:02 pm

            There is quite a bit on this site that looks like it was written by a Python, and by that I mean of the Monty type. :-)

          • Timar

            February 16, 2012 at 7:07 pm

            Only SNAKES write in Python! :P

          • Tony

            February 16, 2012 at 7:15 pm

            People who write in Python, spam! (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guido_van_Rossum)

          • John Milstone

            February 16, 2012 at 10:35 pm

            I’m half thinking of writing some Python that monitors this site and posts single line responses to Shaun Taylor, JNewman, and John Milstone for every one of their posts.

            Yes, please do. It would make for far more intelligent replies than we’re currently getting.

  27. LCD Reply

    February 16, 2012 at 7:55 pm

    I certainly don’t know if Dick Smith is the real Smith here but I certainly hope so.

    I really hope he does offer DGT the same chance. If DGT takes it and proves their wares I will definitely have a lot of respect for Mr. Smith. (and DGT)

    If he proves them a fake, I will have equal respect for Mr. Smith.

    Either way I will have lots of respect for this man because he’d be doing the same thing I would if I were in his shoes.

    • GN Reply

      February 16, 2012 at 8:24 pm

      I totally agree with you!
      Let us hope Mr Smith will not dissapoint us
      and that he continues in the same straightforward way as in his previous postings

  28. Dick Smith Reply

    February 16, 2012 at 9:03 pm

    Yes. I am the real Dick Smith and the offer is genuine.

    I will contact Defkalion and organize the simple testing protocols. Does anyone have the best email address?

    The $1 m must go to an individual- not some big company. That person can then forward it on if they want to.

    As I am convinced this is a scam similar to Firepower International ( make sure you look it up on Wikipedia) I I am not prepared to waste money on this until the test conditions have been agreed on.

    As with the Rossie challenge the test must be one where the result will be accepted by reasonable people in the scientific community .

    I hope the Swedish scientists will be involved. If not I feel sure we can get equivalent independent experts.

    • Ransompw Reply

      February 16, 2012 at 9:43 pm

      Actually, it is nice to hear that you will go forward with your offer. You might try this email address info@defkalion-energy.com or post to their website.

      Being a lawyer, I am not sure I understand the second point about the 1M going to an individual, unlike Rossi, Defkalion is a company not an individual.

      It is patently obvious you think it is a scam. Obviously everyone who has followed this would like to know one way or the other. The level of skepticism is different for each person and I think it is unfair to paint many of those who post to this site as Gullible Believers. I assure you I am not gullible, so your concern for my money is noted but unnecessary. Those that post here however are interested in knowing the truth. With that said, I am sure everyone hopes Defkalion will agree.

      Finally, the testing protocal was discussed and detailed by Defkalion some time ago. Is this test protocal acceptable or not?

      • Tony Reply

        February 16, 2012 at 9:57 pm

        Perhaps Mr Smith could donate half to LENR research (cf Jed at lenr-canr.org), and the rest to DGT?

    • Mahron - A4 B3 Reply

      February 16, 2012 at 9:43 pm

      Well, this is it then.

      With a 20+ cop, asking for 3 leaves a lot a margin for error. If they find excuses to delay the test, after saying there were ok with it, then its pretty much over on the hyperion front.

    • Tony Reply

      February 16, 2012 at 9:43 pm

      Head Office

      Xanthou 3,
      Glifada, 16674 Greece

      T: +30 210 7770602
      F: +30 210 7770608

    • popeye Reply

      February 16, 2012 at 10:02 pm

      I will contact Defkalion and organize the simple testing protocols.

      It’s probably not necessary to say this, but the protocols have to be more than just asking for a COP of 3, for any length of time. Anyone can go to Home Depot and buy a heat pump that will give you a COP higher than that indefinitely, with several kW output.

      If they can’t do a standalone device, then some additional evidence is needed that it’s not a chemical process or some kind of heat transfer process. Not to mention that robust methods of heat measurement are needed. Rossi has already showed that he can trick professors into thinking the power is 8 times higher than it is.

      I hope the Swedish scientists will be involved.

      Why them? They’ve already demonstrated their incompetence when they tried to measure steam quality with a relative humidity probe. Get somebody who knows about steam, and is not already on record as sympathetic to Rossi or cold fusion. Maybe Steven Koonin is available for a small fee…

      • Ransompw Reply

        February 16, 2012 at 10:12 pm

        Now that is choice. Koonin who helped tar and feather Pons and Fleischmann being asked to objectively determine if he screwed the pooch in 1989. Not to mention 20 years as BP’s head of science. How many shares of BP do you think he has socked away and what will happen to his portfolio if he renders a positive report?

        Yeah, he would be perfect.

        • popeye Reply

          February 16, 2012 at 10:26 pm

          Yea, it was a little tongue-in-cheek. Still, surely Defkalion’s success does not depend on getting this million bucks, and Koonin would know that.

          If Defkalion goes on to save the world, and Koonin had turned thumbs down, that would be even worse for him, than if he came clean and repented for former sins…. if he judged the test a success.

    • Robert L Reply

      February 16, 2012 at 11:18 pm

      I applaud and thank you for helping push things along.

      I would suggest that you think carefully about calorimetry requirements, or better still get someone experienced in such matters to negotiate and witness an unimpeachable protocol. Personally I would like to see flow calorimetry with no steam, a good 5-50°C water temperature rise, and easily verifiable water flow rates (bucket and watch is fine). Rossi’s demos have pretty established an extensive list of what-not-to-do.

      Matters electrical I am sure you can deal with :)

    • Patrick Ellul Reply

      February 17, 2012 at 12:25 am

      Dear Dick,

      Defkalion have announced that they already have 7 different international teams scheduled to do independent testing.

      Each team will test the reaction running for 48 hours straight. The first test is scheduled for next Friday, 24th February 2012.

      Are you willing to use the verdict from any or all of these 7 teams as an outcome to your bet?

      Regards,
      Patrick

  29. Dick Smith Reply

    February 16, 2012 at 9:08 pm

    Thanks for the suggestion. I would like to this live on international television- say the U S 60 minutes.

    But unfortunately I am convinced that the offer will end up like my offer to Rossi.

    They will find some excuse to delay or back out . I have seen it all before!

    • Tony Reply

      February 16, 2012 at 9:27 pm

      Such cynicism. I’ll be like that though, if Rossi + DK are lying.

      Thing that’s different this time is the worldwide nature of this – I’ld never heard of Firepower International, or the other small scale things like Tilley.

      If this is a scam, it’s even bigger than Windows Vista!

    • Tony Reply

      February 16, 2012 at 9:31 pm

      Such cynicism!

    • buffalo Reply

      February 16, 2012 at 9:34 pm

      90% chance of them steppin back my frend.perhaps it is a giant collaborated fraud.perhaps its even funded by the petro giants who want a major distraction for sum reason?perhaps its just a bunch o guys who are capitalizing on uncertainty and hope to the max.high treason

    • Tony Reply

      February 16, 2012 at 9:39 pm

      Such cynicism! Perhaps you’ve spotted the next investment opportunity? Don’t want to be beaten to it by us cobbers!

      • buffalo Reply

        February 16, 2012 at 10:18 pm

        u may be rite mr tony.maybe a certain jealosy overrides us.why cant we be the ones raking in millions from gullible fools??dam

    • Pachu Reply

      February 16, 2012 at 10:07 pm

      Why you talk so much before even ask to DGT, its you at the moment who are loosing credibility, go ahead to DGT. And inform when you get real news.

      Its clear that you dont want a scientific test, you want to debunk what you are sure is a scam, anyway do it professionally.

  30. Dick Smith Reply

    February 16, 2012 at 10:27 pm

    It has been pointed out that a COP of three would not be high enough to be accepted by the scientific community as LENR.

    In that case I will accept the COP minimum that would be accepted or the COP that Defkalion claim they can offer for the tests they are conducting

    I want it to be fair for all sides.

    • Ransompw Reply

      February 16, 2012 at 10:32 pm

      Dick:

      The test Defkalion has established and which they claim will be performed starting February 24 does not actually measure COP. Being a lawyer, I am not professing expertise in this area, but it has been discussed at length on the Vortex and what they will measure should demonstrate LENR as I understand the process. You may want to discuss this with those in the know.

      Ransom

      • Tony Reply

        February 16, 2012 at 10:41 pm

        Yep, talk to Vortex’s: Jed Rothwell, Horace Heffner, David Roberson.

        BTW, you might also want to talk to Mats Lewan, who has published reports from all three on NyTeknik.

    • Ivan Mohorovicic Reply

      February 16, 2012 at 10:34 pm

      It would be high enough (actually way more than oustanding) with very accurate scientific testing of honest and genuine devices. Assuming it’s “all a scam” one needs higher input/outputs ratios to be 100% sure there are no tricks or errors.

      By the way, I think it’s best to move further discussions about this to the newest related blog post here:

      http://ecatnews.com/?p=2054

    • GN Reply

      February 16, 2012 at 10:42 pm

      Here are some links with information on the test
      1. Defkalions proposed method

      http://www.defkalion-energy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=926

      2. An explanation provided by Jed Rothwell in the Defkalion forum:

      As Defkalion explained, they will not be doing flow calorimetry, but rather what is called static or isoperibolic calorimetry. They are describing a setup with two reactors side-by-side:

      1. A blank or control reactor, with no powder inside it, only a resistance heater (joule heater). Temperatures are measured inside and outside it.

      2. A working reactor with powder. Again, temperatures are measured inside and outside.

      The reactor walls and insulation are the same. You confirm that the heat transfer coefficient is the same for both. (You confirm this by switching from one reactor to the other midway through the test.) The same amount of electric power is fed into both. If there is anomalous power, the working reactor should get hotter than the blank reactor. The temperature difference indicates how much excess heat you are getting.

      To simplify a great deal, suppose you supply 1 kW of electricity to both. The temperature of the blank reactor core goes up 14°C. The temperature of the working reactor goes up 42°C. That means the working reactor is producing 3 times as much power, or 1 kW of electricity and 2 kW anomalous heat.

      You have to calibrate when you use this method. That is, you have to step up the power, supplying 1 kW for a few hours, then 2 kW, then 3 kW. You should see the blank reactor temperature increase in a fairly linear way: increasing 14°C, 28°C, 42°C compared to the air temperature. In real life it would probably be something like 14°C, ~27°C, ~40°C (somewhat non-linear).

      This is the method used by Fleischmann, Miles, Bockris and other old-fashioned researchers. It is simpler than flow calorimetry. It is reliable and accurate. But it takes a little more work to determine how much power is being produced. Fleischmann generally did this with a single cell and a great deal of first-principle physics. Others do it by relying on calibration and/or by using two cells side-by-side. That’s easier. Defkalion says they will use both methods — first principle and side-by-side — which is fine. You can also compare the heating curve. There are many ways to derive power with this method, and you should use them all. They should agree.

  31. Jim Rice Reply

    February 17, 2012 at 12:59 am

    s

  32. Justin Maxwell Reply

    February 17, 2012 at 2:51 am

    EMAIL Addresses:

    From: http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=395&cpage=2

    stsalikoglou@gmail.com
    info@defkalion-energy.com

    vvvvvv ^C^V vvvvvvv

    DEFKALION Energy Group
    February 3rd, 2011 at 6:28 AM

    On behalf of Defkalion, we wοuld like to clarify the following:

    The full name of Defkalion comapny is: Defkalion Green Technologies S.A. registered in Athens Greece.

    A photovoltaic comapny by the name Defkalion has no connection with us nor do they know anything on this technology.

    For inquiries please forward your messages only to stsalikoglou@gmail.com or to info@defkalion-energy.com

    ==================

    Also pinging my above reply re involving Joe Khachan of Sydney University

  33. Brad Arnold Reply

    February 17, 2012 at 7:14 am

    Let me say (again) that I am saddened by the cynical reception Dick Smith’s offer has gotten by some on this thread. Aren’t you familiar with Mr Smith’s bio? He is much more interested in finding a genuine LENR generator than keeping his million dollars, or gaining fame debunking frauds.

    Hopefully, Mr Smith’s offer can be parlayed into a real publicity bonanza. When (I have little doubt Defkalion is legitimate) Defkalion proves their claims genuine, Mr Smith’s elevation of the test in the eyes of the media will give it even more sensationalism.

    Too bad Mr Smith lost faith in Rossi – it is very likely Mr Rossi is legitimate as well. Never the less, it is understandable that question would be raised by Rossi’s refusal. Let me observe that IF Defkalion does get Mr Smith’s million dollars, it will go a long way to also endorsing Rossi (since he was the one who, presumably, Defkalion piggybacked the LENR technology from).

    Thank you Mr Smith – you are a humanitarian and a god-send to civilization. I trust you, and know that we all want Defkalion (and Rossi) to be legitimate.

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