eCatNews Direct to your MailBox

Enter your email address to follow the ecat story ahead of the crowd

I loathe spam. You can unsubscribe at any time. I will not pass your details to a third party

Unibo, National Instruments & Andrea Rossi’s eCat

January 25, 2012

On one level, the confusion surrounding the University of Bologna’s eCat research is a small detail that no one should sweat over but an eCat in the hands of respected academics would send a strong signal to those outide the circle of priviledge surrounding the inventor. A long published intent, reports of the cancellation of the relevant research contract appeared to indicate a change of heart and caused the smuggest of cynics to sneer a told-you-so.

Following today’s confirmation from Radio Metropolitana and AR’s denial, Mats Lewan at Ny Teknik reports that a new research deal is being worked out in collaboration with National Instruments and Rossi. If this comes to pass, it turns the story on its head. In one swoop we move from Krivit’s negative spin on the issue to solid evidence that Rossi is more than one of NI’s nameless customers – merely buying some kit from them. The devil will be in the detail but NI is not stupid. It knows the controversy surrounding the eCat and cold fusion. This may have turned from a minor stir of mud to a genuine boost of confidence for those waiting for the other shoe to drop.

It is tempting to wonder if this move is in response to Defkalion’s recent invite for independent testers but this is not likely something dreamed up overnight. No matter – NI’s apparent involvement would also boost confidence in AR’s other claims regarding that company. It would then be easy to imagine a succession of positive dominoes slamming one after the other to knock a chunk of mud from the eCat’s gleaming surface.

As is the norm in this drama, it’s too early to call but I am hoping for good news. I do not blame AR for being secretive and agree with others that he needs to play this game with whatever tools he can muster. It could be that – even if the timing of this development turns out be coincidental – competition from DGT or others might force this thing into the open. If so, and once in motion, things could start moving fast.

Ny Teknik’s article is here:

[With thanks to all those in the comments section who drew my attention this]

Posted by on January 25, 2012. Filed under Bologna,Drama,Krivit,Rossi,Uncategorized. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

159 Responses to Unibo, National Instruments & Andrea Rossi’s eCat

  1. Renzo

    January 25, 2012 at 9:42 pm

    From the last comments wrote by Passerini on his blog I get that the universities of Bologna and Uppsala are both involved with NI to setup the same kind of tests. The results will be published at the same time, probably by april

    • Renzo

      January 25, 2012 at 9:45 pm

      PS: I see that Francesco CH has written similar things in the last post

  2. Al Potenza

    January 25, 2012 at 9:51 pm

    I think it’s important to note “Rossi told Ny Teknik”. So only Rossi, so far, is the source.

    If NI gave a description of exactly how they are involved, it would be better. Maybe someone can contact them and see if they will say how they are involved with testing the ecat.

    • daniel maris

      January 25, 2012 at 11:33 pm

      The amazing thing about this story – and why many of us keep our noses pressed to the glass trying to make out what is going on – is that as soon as you are pulled the one way, you are pulled back the other.

      NI can deny the story at any time. They will be getting enquiries to their media centre now.

    • Peter Poulsen

      January 26, 2012 at 2:02 am

      Well its a fact that Rossi have meet with NI and made a big enough impression, for them to mention his company in their press release 14th of Nov. 2011.

      Whatever he with working on with them, i hope more information will come out soon.

      As for the press release 14 nov for those that havent read it:

      “Innovators throughout the world are using the NI graphical system design approach to efficiently address the world’s grand engineering challenges in medical technology, urban infrastructure, alternative energy and other critical applications. In physics specifically, NI has contributed product solutions to some of the most advanced projects including the CERN Large Hadron Collider (LHC) and tokamak fusion device control systems. Additionally, the Leonardo Corporation has intentions to incorporate NI tools in its control system.”

      http://digital.ni.com/worldwide/bwcontent.nsf/websearch/2c6b449a3f0f8f3a862579480060a07f

  3. Camilo

    January 25, 2012 at 9:59 pm

    I am happy to see that there are comments from Passi and Lewan that imply that the news about the non payment of the contract with UniBo was not the end of the independent academic validation issue for Rossi. I would be much more happy if the statements about a new contract involving both UniBo and Upsalla University came from the Universities and not from these two bloggers, of whom I have a high appreciation, anyway, but it is still an statement from a third party. I certainly hope that the validation from two respected European Universities settles the matter once and for all. We need that, and that would also ease the complexities of getting funding for this kind of endeavours to anyone that wants to get involved early.

    • daniel maris

      January 25, 2012 at 11:34 pm

      Unibo have indicated that their facilities are available for testing. They clearly weren’t dissociating themselves from Rossi.

  4. buffalo

    January 25, 2012 at 10:04 pm

    i,l tell you guys what will kickstart this snowball is if some old joe from down the road tinkers in his backyard and finds out that cobalt gives ten times more power than nickel and announces it publicly,watch how things speed up then

  5. Lu

    January 25, 2012 at 10:08 pm

    This is a change. Before I saw this University involvement as a payoff to the Universities for supporting Rossi early on. The focus was to be fundamental research. It was to be completely private — payola to his friends and good publicity for Rossi.

    Now, especially with NI involvement and results in April, it’s more publicity and marketing. NI wants this to succeed. They stand to make money on every E-Cat sold. Defkalion, with independent and presumably public tests scheduled for early this year, is forcing Rossi’s hand.

    Maybe it’s a bit early to make this call, but it looks to me that Rossi has lost the race to market. Only massive deception by Defkalion, which I acknowledge is still possible, will change this. May the best LENR device win.

    • Camilo

      January 25, 2012 at 10:13 pm

      We all win when LENR gets to market, but we need to ensure it gets there first.

    • Bob D

      January 26, 2012 at 11:08 am

      What has Defkalion demonstrated? Rossi has had at least 2 bona fide demos thus far and Defkalion has not had any that I am aware of.

      • Pachu

        January 26, 2012 at 1:11 pm

        Quality vs Quantity issue.

  6. buffalo

    January 25, 2012 at 10:31 pm

    indeed@ camilo.ive got this heavy feeling somebody out there is gona trip this wire and race far past defkalion,rossi,etc. Just u wait.nickel is just ONE of hundreds of elements that are yet to be tried and tested.nevermind combinations of elements,alloys,and even compounds.im getn excited here,smack me plz

    • Martin

      January 25, 2012 at 10:52 pm

      “nickel is just ONE of hundreds of elements that are yet to be tried and tested” Just how hot do you want it to be 🙂

    • Mahron - A4 B3

      January 25, 2012 at 11:18 pm

      Defkalion is already supposed to have a COP minimum 4 times superior. That’s with 2 people in the race not even knowing was the fuck they are really doing. I say some heavy shit is going on in the subatomic world waiting to be discovered. Or they are both frauds lol. That’s not funny actually, it would really piss me off.

    • H. Visscher

      January 26, 2012 at 3:10 am

      One of HUNDRERDS of elements? I thought there were only 92 naturally occurring elements. Which are the others? (name at least 108 😉 )

      • Peter Roe

        January 26, 2012 at 8:35 am

        Strictly speaking, that would need to be 200 minimum to qualify as ‘hundreds’!

      • C M Edwards

        January 26, 2012 at 2:39 pm

        Let’s see. Hydrogen-1, Hydrogen-2, Hydrogen-3, Helium-3, Helium-4, Lithium-5, Lithium-6, Lithium-7….

        There’s only about 108 elements, but there are hundreds of element isotopes.

        • LCD

          January 26, 2012 at 5:47 pm

          You beat me to it.

    • Ivy Matt

      January 26, 2012 at 10:39 am

      Who knows? Maybe it will work with palladium—or even platinum.

  7. buffalo

    January 25, 2012 at 11:29 pm

    @martin..as hot as it can get brother.lets tilt this thing to the limit bro.lets blow ourselves and our hometown up if we have to,eeyikes

    • Tony

      January 25, 2012 at 11:32 pm

      I see that George Hody / “Mary Yugo” is expressing another opinion…

  8. buffalo

    January 25, 2012 at 11:35 pm

    @mahron..yeah man.if those suckers are foolin us im personally gona launch a complaint.and it wnt b pretty

  9. Jerry H

    January 25, 2012 at 11:43 pm

    Its no wonder Rossi wanted out of Italy – he said on his own forum they would never let him succeed there, now even his so-called friends at the U of Bologna have sent out a blanket statement claiming to have “terminated” its relationship to Rossi and to no less than a KNOWN ENEMY of Rossi Steven B. Krivit, lets hope that Rossi does indeed have a new deal with National Instruments.

    • Tony

      January 25, 2012 at 11:55 pm

      You are a fool.

      Why are you posting here if you can’t be bothered to read the facts before you dribble on the keyboard?

      • Al Potenza

        January 26, 2012 at 1:41 am

        Can you say a bit more. I don’t understand what you mean or who you are addressing and I can’t tell one Tony from the other. Why don’t one of you change it to Anthony or Anton or Antoine or Antonio, the Italian version?

      • Peter Roe

        January 26, 2012 at 9:17 am

        Fair comment, Tony! I think a few people might be confusing you with the troll ID ‘Tony 2’ – maybe a change in ID wouldn’t be a bad idea?

        • georgehants

          January 26, 2012 at 9:39 am

          Yes please, sane Tony change your name, I look out for your posts.
          I think massive congratulations are in order as
          I have managed to go many hours without responding off topic, I will relax when P & F are given official credit.

          • Pekka Janhunen

            January 26, 2012 at 1:53 pm

            “Yes please, sane Tony change your name” Yes please do. Hint, append B1 or Bwhatever like Mahron. Or GoodTony, BadTony.

          • C M Edwards

            January 26, 2012 at 2:42 pm

            I like “Sane Tony.” 🙂

          • Tony

            January 26, 2012 at 8:46 pm

            Hey now, don’t be trying to change me!

            Troll? I don’t think so. Trying to rationalize what, to me, appears to be outright lying from a convicted fraudster? Yep. That’s me.

            And all done in good taste.

            Tony2

    • Ivy Matt

      January 26, 2012 at 10:47 am

      Maybe Krivit asked them about the agreement of June, 2011, and they gave him an answer regarding its status. What else would you expect a public university to do? It’s not their job to maintain and enforce Rossi’s enemies list.

  10. buffalo

    January 26, 2012 at 12:11 am

    whose a fool mr tony

    • Quax

      January 26, 2012 at 5:49 am

      Ecatnews now has its very own Rodeo clown troll!

  11. Bob D

    January 26, 2012 at 5:55 am

    A couple of things:

    Where did the internal, self contained H2 source come from? This is in my estimation a very significant improvement that seemingly came out of the blue.

    Why will the 10 kW eCats cost 1/40 the price per kW when compared to the 1MW system? $500 per eCat seems very cheap. I know the nickel is inexpensive, However Rossi said somewhere it is 5 nines purity. That means .99999 pure, which means the nickel is no longer inexpensive.

    • Timar

      January 26, 2012 at 8:08 am

      Rossi said(tm) that there is hardly any consumption of nickle. The used fuel cardridges will be completely recycled.

      OK, so my confidence rating in Rossi went down from 3 to 2 after that container confusion, now it’s up again at 2.5 – and it’s going to rise higher as soon as NI, Unibo or Uniupps will give any official confirmation.

    • Peter Roe

      January 26, 2012 at 8:48 am

      @Bob D “Why will the 10 kW eCats cost 1/40 the price per kW when compared to the 1MW system?”

      That is a very large elephant in the room that I also commented on a few threads ago. A certain differential might be expected due to the (presumed) industrial type construction, more complex controls and an on-board hydrogen supply (and possibly a maintenance contract included) but x40/kW is ridiculous.

      If I was, say, a beer brewer (an example chosen entirely at random!) and needed cheap heat, I would be inclined to wait a bit and buy 50 or 100 domestic units and connect them in parallel to deliver exactly the output I needed, at a fraction of the cost of a containerised unit.

      • Pekka Janhunen

        January 26, 2012 at 9:19 am

        I think the 1/40 is a combination of not needing hydrogen bottle, smaller size and the benefits of serial production. The elimination of the hydrogen bottle was possibly the crucial factor which also by and large enables automatic serial production.
        Like any businessman, Rossi needs also current customers, not only future ones who wait for the prices to come down.

    • Peter Roe

      January 26, 2012 at 9:00 am

      Re. the self contained hydrogen supply, this seems to be NI’s ‘breakthrough’ contribution, that has made possible the massive forecast price reduction for the home units. It seems that this may involve the addition of a hydrogen ‘donor’ to the fuel mix in the replaceable fuel element, probably a light-metal hydride mix engineered for the purpose.

      • Pekka Janhunen

        January 26, 2012 at 9:23 am

        Typically metal hydrides produce increased hydrogen pressure when heated, and when cooled the hydrogen retreats back so that gas pressure is again lowered. If applied naively, the principle might just cause a runaway reaction (increasing temperature release higher pressure hydrogen from the storage hydride which increases the reaction rate which increases the temperature). It’s not obvious to me how Rossi has solved this problem while having the storage hydride inside the reactor. If the hydride would be outside then its temperature could be actively controlled, but that doesn’t seem really compatible with the single plug-in cartridge idea…

        • buffalo

          January 26, 2012 at 9:41 am

          probably by using just the right amount of alkali hydride.too much and u explode,too little and u sail for 6 months,gota b worked out

        • Bob D

          January 26, 2012 at 9:47 am

          If NI did suggest the self contained H2 enhancement it would surely be a huge improvement, If in fact they have found another way to control the reaction. Which seems unlikely although they still have Temp, Pressure, or the fabled RF source remaining to modulate the reaction. I would not expect pressure to be very useful and Temperature would be difficult to use given the fact the reactor is producing heat. So, the best bet would be the RF signal? Curious and Curiouser.

          • DvH

            January 26, 2012 at 10:43 am

            btw, the RF device: i am not aware of ANY chemical/nuclear/quantum/whatever process which works better when RF is applied.
            if there is indeed such a process, are there other processes which work LESS efficient with RF applied, that is, RF is used as an inhibitor?

          • Pekka Janhunen

            January 26, 2012 at 11:08 am

            DvH, one possible role for RF might be to mechanically stir the nickel particles perhaps to keep them suspended in hydrogen gas or some liquid, in that case the “RF” frequency would be low

          • DvH

            January 26, 2012 at 11:49 am

            @pekka janhunen
            i didnt mean the possible role of RF in AR’s blue container – i mean ‘real’ existing/known processes.
            and, to be more precise, i mean RF influence to the reaction, not as a source of heat.

          • Peter Roe

            January 26, 2012 at 2:33 pm

            Re. RF, as well as keeping ferromagnetic particles in suspension, magnetostrictive effects would cause rapid distortions of the metal lattice structure which might have some effect, and also eddy currents that would result in inductive heating. By altering field strength and frequency the degree of each effect could be varied. The reactor tube would have to be made of austenitic stainless steel to be permeable to EM.

            All pure speculation of course, but it should be remembered that GEC claimed that microwave stimulation of an LENR fuel results in massive neutron production (GeNIe reactor).

            Pekka – perhaps the hydride mix might be walled off in the same tube by means of a porous ceramic plug or similar, with the temp (H2 pressure) being controlled by an external resistance heater in contact with the tube?

          • Pekka Janhunen

            January 26, 2012 at 3:32 pm

            Peter, last paragraph: it’s possible, I was just wondering how he in that case gets the hydride and nickel conveniently packed with the same cartridge. But maybe he just uses a somewhat bigger cartridge which contains a thermal insulator. It would rhyme with the fact that he wants people to return them.

          • Peter Roe

            January 26, 2012 at 5:15 pm

            I think there would probably be a number of possible configurations, but the one I had in mind was a longish ‘test tube’ shape, with the fuel packed in perhaps the ‘bottom’ 75%, then a porous plug of sintered ceramic (thermal insulator) then the hydride mix with an embedded resistance heater supplied through a sealed cap. The portion containing the hydride might be surrounded by more insulation when in situ, in order to make temp control more precise.

            The downside though would be an intermittent need for more electrical power to maintain H2 pressure. My hunch is actually that a small quantity of hydride is actually mixed with the fuel powder, and all or most of the H2 is released while the cell is hot. Possibly a hydride mix could be designed that would be self-limited by H2 pressure, or alternatively any tendency to run away may be controlled by other means (over-cooling or RF control loop).

          • LCD

            January 26, 2012 at 6:07 pm

            @Peter
            If I were to do it, that’s the way I would try it.

            That’s of course after proving to myself it worked.

  12. Gwandau

    January 26, 2012 at 7:04 am

    @Bob D,

    This discrepancy in price is something that have bothered me. If each e-cat is a self running system, why not do the coupling ourself? It wouldn’t need much of a technician to figure out and test a functional parallel system, since this is old school and has nothing to do with fusion.

    Gwandau

  13. buffalo

    January 26, 2012 at 8:48 am

    right @vissher,but u know wat i mean man,chek out all the intermetallic compounds, for instance chek out all the hundreds of intermetallics used in Ni-MH batteries anodes for hydrogen storage.some of those batteries get dam hot when busy recharging for short time.i say get hold of various new batteries and feel them wit your hand and start looking in2 the ones that get hottest quikest while charging,maybe some cold fusion goin on in ther,yeowi

    • Mahron - A4 B3

      January 26, 2012 at 8:53 am

      reply button or gtfo. or tits…

  14. georgehants

    January 26, 2012 at 9:48 am

    Wolf wrote:
    Dear Defkalion,
    5. For what do the testers have to pay (besides their traveling costs)?

    Pay? Why scientists should pay to do their job?
    Travelling and accomodation are obviously on their budgeting costs for transparancy reasons. (We can offer only what we discribed in viewtopic.php?f=4&t=845. They can skip the patsa if they want…)

    As for the rest of your questions, please follow future Press Releases form our company.
    Thank you

  15. georgehants

    January 26, 2012 at 10:37 am

    Well it looks like a cure could have been found for our friends who believe that researching Cold Fusion or anything else is a waste of time and denying everything is rational.
    I don’t know it is is powerful enough to overcome the deep problem but any hope must be good.
    Human enhancement’ comes a step closer—-
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-16739645

    • Ivy Matt

      January 26, 2012 at 10:55 am

      Who believes denying everything is rational…apart from government agents on “The X-Files”?

  16. georgehants

    January 26, 2012 at 10:52 am

    From Facebook with thanks
    zer tte Interview with jean paul biberian about cold fusion
    zer tte
    Wed, 25 Jan 2012 21:32:15 -0800
    http://www.knowledge-tv.com/Lafusionfroide.html
    Recently noticed this video interview from Jean Paul Biberian apparently made
    in early oct 2011. The interview is in french, so for non french readers here
    is a really quick summary :
    First, Biberian talks at length about the history of cold fusion and it’s
    suppression. Then about rossi’s progress and his hopes for the future of Ni H
    cells.
    At the end you will notice Biberian running an experiment on an Ni-H reactor.
    http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg62455.html

  17. Pachu

    January 26, 2012 at 11:06 am

    Does anyone know what are the objectives (formal, not vague guessing) of the studies in Bologna and Uppsala?

  18. georgehants

    January 26, 2012 at 11:18 am

    From COLD FUSION TIMES
    Cold Fusion 101: IAP – Short Course at MIT
    Christy L. Frazier
    “Beginning on January 23, 2012, Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) Electrical Engineering Prof. Peter Hagelstein will teach an Independent Activities Period (IAP) course titled “Cold Fusion 101: Introduction to Excess Power in Fleischmann-Pons Experiments.” While Hagelstein expects attendance in the course to be small (based on the historical lack of interest in cold fusion at MIT), he plans to pack a lot of information into the available 10.5 hours.
    Some of the lecture material includes: observation of excess power in Fleischmann and Pons’ early experiments; claim of energy production without chemical or nuclear products; important negative experiments from 1989; theoretical difficulties; Huizenga’s “three miracles” (lack of strong neutron emissions and gamma rays or X-rays, Coulomb barrier penetration); hydrogen/deuterium evolution reactions and electrochemical models; excess power as a function of loading; vacancies and codeposition; the nuclear ash problem; correlation of He-4 with excess power in Fleischmann-Pons experiments; overview of theoretical approaches; ideas for coherent energy exchange between mismatched quantum systems; excess power in the NiH system; the Piantelli experiment; prospects for a new, small-scale, clean nuclear energy technology.
    On January 30-31, Dr. Mitchell Swartz, of JET Energy, will present experimental results showing excess power in PdD and NiH systems, with a particular focus on experiments he has conducted.”

    • daniel maris

      January 26, 2012 at 1:27 pm

      Ha-ha – and a few months ago they called LENR/cold fusion “garbage science”.

      I really still think the NASA video was the big breakthrough. The sceptics haven’t been the same since.

      All we are looking at now is what is the best way to harness this new source of energy safely and proficiently.

      There could be any number of answers to that from central generating stations, to Rossi’s heater to plans for domestic electricity generation.

      It’s going to be a very exciting year.

      • AB

        January 26, 2012 at 1:44 pm

        I agree that Zawodny’s video changed the way this story is perceived in the public. I have seen a definite shift in public opinion on other sites, from hardcore skeptical to a more healthy mix of moderate skepticism and curiosity.

      • Ivy Matt

        January 26, 2012 at 7:31 pm

        Who’s “they”? Peter Hagelstein and Mitchell Swartz?

  19. Bruno

    January 26, 2012 at 3:20 pm

    At this point we have nothing. We’ve never had a properly vetted validation test run by an independent 3rd party. We don’t know for sure that Rossi really did sell his 1MW ecat since the “customer”, whose identity we were supoosed to learn, conveniently chose to remain anonymous at the last minute. In fact, there are rumors that the 1MW ecat is still in Bologna. The University of Bologna terminated their agreement with him and Upsalla will probably soon follow suit. We need world class Ph.D physicists to tell HOW the damned thing works (if it does), but we don’t need them to tell us that it DOES work. Any competent engineer can do that. Just operate an ecat in self sustained mode for a few days and allow an independent 3rd party engineer to run the test. They wouldn’t even need to open up the reactor. Rossi’s strategy all along has been to say that he’ll do x, y & z and then change the plan at the last minute, offering some silly excuse as justification. Then all the Kool-Aid drinkers postulate about how brilliant the change of strategy is when, in reality, Rossi is just changing gears because he milked the last deception dry. I smell a scam.

    • Peter Roe

      January 26, 2012 at 3:28 pm

      I suggest you carefully read through the last few threads here before making the usual facile and repetitive comments. Either your information is partial and out of date, or you are just deliberately misinterpreting the facts so you can spout the usual ritual negativism. And please keep the stupid ‘kool aid’ references out of it.

      • JNewman

        January 26, 2012 at 4:09 pm

        All the chest-beating and name-calling is great fun but doesn’t make a whit of difference. If e-cats really work, all the skeptics and nayersayers in the world can’t change it. Similarly, if they don’t work, all the cheerleaders in the world can’t change that either. So other than not wanting to listen to anybody who disagrees with you, what is your point in trying to silence the critics?

        • Peter Roe

          January 26, 2012 at 5:38 pm

          I thought my comments were quite mild actually, in view of the utterly crass and ill-informed nature of the post, and the gratuitous insult aimed, presumably, at anyone who puts some interpretation other than ‘scam’ on developments. However, you are quite right of course when you say that nothing that transpires here is going to affect outcomes either way. I’ve made the same point myself in previous comments on this blog.

          • JNewman

            January 26, 2012 at 5:47 pm

            Your specific comments in the post I replied to were indeed fairly mild for these parts. In the pointless trench warfare here, anybody who supports Rossi is a Koolaid drinker and anybody who doesn’t is a pathoskeptic. And so it goes…

            One fine point however is that essentially ALL comments made here are ill-informed since there is virtually no real information available other than hearsay. So making a distinction between yesterday’s vague rumor and today’s vague rumor is subtle at best.

            On that note, the party goes on.

          • Frank

            January 26, 2012 at 7:22 pm

            I agree to JNewman: Almost no ‘hard/undoubtably facts’ here, just a lot of speculations what might be the status and what might happen with the e-cat and Rossi.

            Wild speculations and wishful thinking doesn’t proof anything, but is likely to be deceptive.

            I was expecting to get a little bit more insight about the ‘real’ situation from the e-cat.com team. They promised on their website to publish a series of videos they took recently in Bologna, but they stopped (so far) after the second video.
            Maybe they are unfortunate with the response to the first two videos …

          • Barney

            January 27, 2012 at 8:43 am

            We are ALL ill-informed, in the sense we all have Rossi’s version ONLY, as perfectly said by Bruno.
            It’s not a matter of having information or not: this -frankly speaking- is simply a matter of FAITH Vs. LOGIC, of HOPE Vs. REALISM. At the end of the story, it’s RELIGION Vs. SCIENCE, isn’t?

            Barney

      • Bruno

        January 28, 2012 at 1:30 am

        The “Kool-Aid” comment might have been over the top, but I stand by everything else that I wrote. There is nothing wrong with repeating the same old arguments if they have merit. Repetition does not make a good point any less valid. A few months ago I was extremely excited and optimistic about Rossi. I’ve been following LENR for ten years, got sucked into following Blacklight Power a few years ago until it became obvious that they do nothing but issue papers, tout suspect validation trials and then make promises & predictions that they never meet. I thought (and a part of me still hopes) that Rossi was different, and even signed up for a home ecat (probably one of the original 10,000). Anyway, I started to become uneasy and more skeptical after the inconclusive and tightly controlled 28 October test. Yes, that test WAS inconclusive. I waited weeks for what was supposed to have been an open (it was supposed to have been streamed live on CCTV) test, run by the independent representative of an unimpeachable American company, the identity of which we would learn on the day of the test. Instead we wound out with a closed test, run by Rossi (or his mysterious engineer who nobody can really identify), with the unit being “sold” to a secret “customer”. Now we’re told that production of the home ecat will begin in August, far enough in the future to give Rossi plenty of wiggle room. I suspect that come June or July we’ll be told the timetable has been pushed back to early 2013. The only somewhat corroborated word we have is that Leonardo Corp. and National Instruments have some sort of a development agreement/relationship. Other than that, EVERYTHING I read is some variation of “Rossi said this or Rossi said that”, all of it uncorroborated. The sad thing about this is that it would be so EASY to test an ecat. No need to test a huge 1MW unit. Just run energy and mass balances on one of the modules, run continuously for long enough (a day? two days?) to discount the possibility of secretly stored chemical energy. By treating the ecat as a black box, the test could be done in such a way that Rossi’s trade secrets would be protected. I’m willing to bet that the University of Bologna would conduct this test for FREE if Rossi would simply provide them with an ecat module.

    • HanzJager

      January 26, 2012 at 3:29 pm

      I smell something.. but I just farted so I guess scam doesn’t overpower fart.

      There is nothing wrong with thinking what he is doing makes sense. Some of it does and some just makes a person scratch their head and wonder. What exactly is he scamming? Sure isn’t our money. I have yet to see someone say they’ll part with their money before having proof it works. Who’s drinking the kool-aid here? I prefer coffee, beer and water… not in that order. 😉

  20. Francesco CH

    January 26, 2012 at 3:38 pm

    Original Communiqué (in Italian):

    http://www.magazine.unibo.it/Magazine/Universita/2012/01/26/E-cat_dichiarazione_del_Dipartimento_di_Fisica.htm

    E-CAT: DICHIARAZIONE DEL DIPARTIMENTO DI FISICA

    26 gennaio 2012

    Rescisso il contratto sottoscritto a giugno con la EFA srl causa il mancato soddisfacimento delle condizioni al termine contrattuale previsto

    – – – – – – – – – – – – –

    Il Dipartimento di Fisica dichiara che il contratto sottoscritto nel giugno 2011 tra il Dipartimento di Fisica e la EFA srl (la società italiana in cui Rossi è coinvolto) è stato rescisso causa il mancato soddisfacimento delle condizioni al termine contrattuale previsto. Non c’è più alcun rapporto tra il Dipartimento e la EFA srl legato a questo contratto.

    Tuttavia, il Dipartimento di Fisica si è reso disponibile con la sua esperienza e le sue strumentazioni per svolgere autonome misurazioni sulla produzione di calore da parte dell’apparecchiatura denominata E-cat al fine di fornire una risposta all’intera comunità scientifica e all’opinione pubblica in merito al fenomeno. I RISULTATI DELLE MISURE SARANNO PUBBLICATI.

    • georgehants

      January 26, 2012 at 4:02 pm

      Google translate of above.

      E-CAT: STATEMENT OF THE DEPARTMENT OF PHYSICS January 26, 2012 Terminated the contract signed in June with the EFA Ltd. because of failure to meet contract conditions provided at the end – – – – – – – – – – – – – The Department of Physics states that the contract signed in June 2011 between the Department of Physics and the EFA srl (Italian society in which Smith is involved) has been terminated due to non compliance with the conditions of the terms. There’s no relationship between the Department and the EFA Ltd. in connection with this contract. However, the Department of Physics has made available its experience and its equipment to carry out independent measurements on the production of heat by equipment called E-cat in order to provide an answer to the entire scientific community and the general public about the phenomenon. RESULTS OF MEASURES WILL BE PUBLISHED.

      • Frank

        January 26, 2012 at 5:03 pm

        Quote: ‘However, the Department of Physics has made available its experience and its equipment to carry out independent measurements ….’

        I assume that this is not a change of the Uni Bologna, they would have been ready/eager to do independent measurements long time ago already, if only Rossi would have allowed them / have given them an e-cat.
        Rossi didn’t do this so far, for whatever reasons.

        So, why should I believe yet, that this will happen now? Because Rossi says again that he/they will ‘work’ together with Universities? (Who knows what is Rossi’s understanding of the term ‘work with Universities’)
        After all promises Rossi made so far, I will only take it serious that Universities do 3rd party testing after it’s confirmed by the Universities.

    • Pachu

      January 26, 2012 at 4:07 pm

      Warm Regards.

      😀

  21. Harry Perini

    January 26, 2012 at 7:50 pm

    I will wait for delivery of the home ecat I ordered. I will believe it when I receive it.

  22. Mahron - A4 B3

    January 27, 2012 at 1:01 am

    ecat.com faq :

    Have you ever been approached by “certain global powers” requesting you to hold back on your planned time-line of goals?

    —-

    Yes. But we did not accept. Probably new series of attacks will arrive from the puppets, but are totally irrilevant in front of the industrialization of the E-Cats.

    I hope he will write a book about it. In his mansion … or prison cell…

  23. Zappa

    January 27, 2012 at 1:40 am

    In MY Opinion…. The e-Cat works!

    But only for Rossi and accomplices.
    And not nickel, but YOU make it work.

    With YOUR support and blogs like this here, Rossi manages to get away with fakes demos, fake promises and fake offerings.

    What he does right now, while you buy him time, is to collect money from foolish investors. He will (secretly) take money from all kinds of people – some of which will surely have major money to invest.

    For months already, he is filling diverse bank accounts, collecting millions. He has no intention to ever build 1 million e-cats. He only pulls in “money to finance it”.

    Before too long, he’ll vanish with the loot.
    Police should move in.
    YOU should move on: it’s a SCAM!

    DO NOT help him.
    Burden of genuine scientific proof is upon him.

    Zappa

    • Neil Taylor

      January 27, 2012 at 7:03 am

      Zappa, Where is YOUR burden of proof to these so-called Rossie scam claims of yours. I would suggest you move on to the likes of Krivit’s blog site – He would welcome you there…

      • Zappa

        January 27, 2012 at 9:15 am

        I don’t have any proof. As I said in my very first line, it’s just MY opinion.

        To me, whatever Rossi does or says is plausible only in a scam context.

        For example: Him not being able to generate electricity “yet”? Well I think Rossi just dislikes the idea of electricity because it is “too easy” to measure. Whereas steam already proved to be fuzzy enough to make it through most of his demos.

        If he was actually able to produce steam at the magnitudes he claims, he could easily combine it with available generator turbines in the market (with known efficiency curves) and provide electricity.

        Stuff like that. All over the place. I’m only observing, and this is my opinion.

        Zappa

    • StevenBurrows

      January 27, 2012 at 7:42 am

      Whoever invests his money into something without the proof that it really works knows full well about the risks. The vast majority of enthusiasts, like us here on the form will want to see indefinite and indisputable proof that the “stuff” really works before investing one red cent!
      It seems to me that just as Rossi is currently without any concrete proof about his device so are you accusing him.

  24. Peter Roe

    January 27, 2012 at 8:12 am

    Off-topic – apologies to Admin (but please allow, Paul)

    In my assumed role of ‘Paranoid Pete’ I have sometimes raised the possibility of the loss of internet freedom, and the effect this would have on the spreading of information on the e-cat or any similar disruptive technologies (probably terminal). Very recently a worldwide petition apparently succeeded in halting, or at least setting back, the proposed ‘SOPA’ legislation in the US, that attempted to use copyright theft as camouflage for introducing web censorship.

    However there is now a far greater threat that puts SOPA (and PIPA, a similar bill) completely into the shade. This is the Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement (ACTA) – a global treaty that would allow corporations to control the internet for their own purposes through a shadowy non-elected new “anti-counterfeiting” body which would give private interests the power to police everything that we do online and *** even to impose massive penalties — even prison sentences — against people they claim have harmed their business.***

    This pernicious legislation has been negotiated in secret by a small number of rich countries and corporate powers – governments of 80% of the world’s people were excluded from the ACTA negotiations but unelected bureaucrats worked closely with corporate lobbyists to design new rules and a dangerously powerful enforcement regime. If they have their way, ACTA will initially cover the US, EU and 9 other countries, then be rolled out globally. This outrageous power grab could mean people everywhere will be punished **by private business interests** for ‘transgressions’ of **their** rules and, amazingly, the ACTA committee will have carte blanche to change these rules and sanctions with no further need for democratic scrutiny.

    The European parliament will shortly deciding whether to sign ACTA, and if they decide not to, this global attack on Internet freedom will collapse. The EC parliament has opposed ACTA before, but after a sustained period of secret ‘lobbying’ there is a good chance that corporate business will get its way this time. But if enough people express their opposition and we can get the EU to say no now, the treaty will lose momentum and could stall for good.

    Once again is is Avaaz.org that is spearheading opposition, so please sign their petition, which will be presented to the eurocrats in Brussels shortly before the legislation is debated:

    http://www.avaaz.org/en/eu_save_the_internet/?vl

    Big corporate interests are pushing hard for this, but the EU Parliament could stand in the way. Help send a loud call to EU parliamentarians to face down the lobbyists and stand up for internet freedom. Internet freedom is at a crossroads – we could easily see it slip away. Sign now and please copy this information to everyone you know.

    • georgehants

      January 27, 2012 at 8:31 am

      Peter, just signed, next job for honesty and freedom is for P&F to receive a full apology.

      • Peter Roe

        January 27, 2012 at 8:42 am

        Thanks George. I don’t suppose that any formal apology to P&F will follow if cold fusion does make it into the world this time around, but their pioneering work will obviously receive worldwide recognition, while those who brought them down busily re-write history and their part in it.

    • georgehants

      January 27, 2012 at 8:39 am

      U.S falls to 47th in press freedom rankings after Occupy crackdown
      Ellen Connolly
      Daily Mail
      January 26, 2012
      Sweeping protests around the world made it an extremely difficult year for the media, and tested journalists as never before, the annual report into press freedom reveals.
      The annual report by Reporters Without Borders has been released, showing the United States fell 27 points on the list due to the many arrests of journalists covering Occupy Wall Street protests.
      The slide in the United States places it just behind Comoros and Taiwan in a group with Argentina and Romania.
      Reporters Without Borders said the heightened unrest around the world resulted in a significant shake-up of the group’s annual Press Freedom Index, which assesses governments’ commitment to protecting media freedoms.

      http://www.infowars.com/u-s-falls-to-47th-in-press-freedom-rankings-after-occupy-crackdown/

    • Peter Roe

      January 27, 2012 at 3:07 pm

      Over half a million sigs so far, from a standing start this morning.

      http://www.avaaz.org/en/eu_save_the_internet/?vl

      • Neil Taylor

        January 27, 2012 at 6:58 pm

        Thanks Peter, I just signed on to this important protest…

        • Peter Roe

          January 27, 2012 at 7:40 pm

          Cheers, Neil. These attacks seem to be coming thick and fast just now. I don’t suppose the people behind them will give up if this one is chucked out, but it will slow them down.

          I’m hoping that in the longer term some hacker group like Anonymous will come up with a way to block groups like any proposed ‘ACTA comittee’ from even accessing the web in order to shut them out completely.

          It would be rather nice if instead of petitioning, that a million signatures would be enough to block an IP address or block of IPs completely.

      • Todd Burkett

        January 28, 2012 at 7:42 pm

        I signed!

  25. georgehants

    January 27, 2012 at 8:27 am

    Andrea Rossi
    January 26th, 2012 at 4:07 PM

    DEAR BERNIE KOPPENHOFER:
    I DO NOT UNDERSTAND ALL THIS FUSS AROUND THE UNIVERSITY OF BOLOGNA STUFF: WE, THE E-CAT PEOPLE, MAKE R&D WITH CONSULTANTS , SUPPLIERS, PARTNERS AND UNIVERSITIES WE CHOOSE TIME BY TIME FOR SPECIFIC TASKS AND THIS DOES NOT BELONG TO PUBLIC INFORMATION. WHAT COUNTS FOR THE PUBLIC IS THAT OUR PRODUCTS WORK PROPERLY. AS USUAL THE PUPPET SNAKES ARE MAKING MUCH ADO FOR NOTHING, WITH THE HELP OF SOME PRIMADONNA (OR WANNABE SO).
    WARM REGARDS,
    ANDREA ROSSI

    • Timar

      January 27, 2012 at 8:29 am

      Seems he got a new nickname for Krivit.

      • Peter Roe

        January 27, 2012 at 8:45 am

        I think he has quite a few nicknames for Krivit, none of them too complimentary!

    • Ivy Matt

      January 27, 2012 at 2:42 pm

      “WHAT COUNTS FOR THE PUBLIC IS THAT OUR PRODUCTS WORK PROPERLY.”

      *checks watch*

  26. georgehants

    January 27, 2012 at 9:07 am

    Barney You said —-
    “We are ALL ill-informed, in the sense we all have Rossi’s version ONLY, as perfectly said by Bruno.
    It’s not a matter of having information or not: this -frankly speaking- is simply a matter of FAITH Vs. LOGIC, of HOPE Vs. REALISM. At the end of the story, it’s RELIGION Vs. SCIENCE, isn’t?”

    Are you talking about the sort of scientific religious beliefs that Cold Fusion or UFO’s don’t exist.
    A Dogmatic dictate handed down by the high priests that all the congregation must follow with penalty of
    being ostracised and abused if not adhered to.

    • Johan Börjesson

      January 27, 2012 at 9:17 am

      Georgehants:
      Please dont let us go down that road again…

      • georgehants

        January 27, 2012 at 9:25 am

        Johan Börjesson, I am not leading but as always responding, am very happy for anybody to respond and answer my question or does that frighten some people who wish to continue and defend the Dogma of much of science.

    • Barney

      January 27, 2012 at 9:41 am

      I’m not saying UFO does not exist, nor LERN does not work.

      What I said is, simply: we ONLY have Rossi’s statements on E-Cat efficiency, Rossi’s statement on NI involvement on E-Cat DEVELOPMENT, Rossi’s measures on wathever you want. Only Rossi’s version of the facts.

      All Rossi’s fans do interpret any news as good news (and the opposite apply too, of course).
      This situation is an impasse which can be broken only if truly independent tester are allowed to measure what really the E-Cat does. For a reasonable amount of time (which is NOT what decided by Rossi, obviously), and with probes and diagnostics not from Leonardo Corp.. Is that so strange? Does it resemble to say “LENR does not work”? It doesn’t seems, to me.

      Hot regards,

      Barney

      • georgehants

        January 27, 2012 at 9:50 am

        Barney, thank you for clarifying your position, the question was put for that purpose.
        Could not agree more that proof will only come with a shown working E-CAT.
        But science will have very little to do with it’s success, just the few true scientists who have helped Rossi or any other rebels researching non grata subjects.

  27. Johan Börjesson

    January 27, 2012 at 9:24 am

    Doesnt Rossi’s cat look a lot like Schrödinger’s?
    (maybe that was an old one, and if so, I apologize)

    • georgehants

      January 27, 2012 at 9:30 am

      Johan Börjesson, Hopefully you are correct as Schrodinger’s cat after 100 years is a fact still not understood by many scientists.
      Maybe Mr. Rossi will be more successful in bypassing closed-minds his way, lets hope so.
      http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-04-15/scientists-teleport-schrodingers-cat/2614780

      • Johan Börjesson

        January 27, 2012 at 11:42 am

        It was meant as a joke… It refered to the similarity with the cat working (alive) and not working (dead)…

        • georgehants

          January 27, 2012 at 11:47 am

          Johan Börjesson, the joke was clear and appreciated.
          My response about science was not a joke.

  28. spacegoat

    January 27, 2012 at 9:26 am

    Some realism:

    My notes from watching (link posted previously by GeorgeHants)

    http://www.knowledge-tv.com/Lafusionfroide2.html

    Interview with Jean Paul Biberian. University of Marseille.

    ### Workings of “Science”
    Science publications have an editorial line, that must accord with what the readership expects. So cold fusion articles were refused without explanation.
    The small community was obliged to create their own publishing apparatus: iscnms.org
    There were a few limited openings to publish, in Japan for example.
    The next iscnms conference is in Korea – a new country in this domain. There are others.
    Question: Is it politicians or scientists who are deciding to look at cold fusion this again?
    Answer: Scientists and the military, but behind it is probably a political decision.

    ### Rossi
    Rossi used method trial and error , not normally used in science. Mainstream science prefers formal analysis and significant investment.
    ### Future
    There will develop a distributed electrical network … like the internet.
    ### His work
    He has no financial means, and no official program.
    It is Do-It-Yourself science.
    There is no support but and no prevention.
    ### Political choices
    Scientists follow the money.
    Government decide the top level. It is nanotechnology in France that is the honey-pot.
    Government advisors come from large corporations, who direct the program out of self interest.
    It is the law of the jungle – the strongest corporation wins.
    ### Conclusion
    We are at a crossroads. Soon, a big reorientation will break through.
    In China 21 laboratories work on this.
    Korea has just started.
    There are many laboratories in Russia.
    It will happen. Soon.
    Regarding the obstruction of LENR – at a given moment one must face up to reality.
    http://www.blogde-jeanpaulbiberian.blogspot.com
    http://www.jeanpaulbiberian.net

    • Mahron - A4 B3

      January 27, 2012 at 10:03 am

      Are you French ?

    • Peter Roe

      January 27, 2012 at 1:23 pm

      Thanks spacegoat – very interesting post.

      “In China 21 laboratories work on this.
      Korea has just started.
      There are many laboratories in Russia.
      It will happen. Soon.”

      If Prof. Biberian knows what he is talking about, this is great news. It will be impossible to stop CF in the west if other countries openly(?) adopt it as the main source of energy.

      Strange how the subject seems to be openly discussed even in France, where there is a massive nuclear industry, but there is not a whisper in the UK press or (as far as I am aware) in the UK research arena. Its about time Russia Today carried the story – the BBC is not in any hurry.

      • spacegoat

        January 27, 2012 at 2:08 pm

        You are welcome Peter Roe.
        He also said the research is starting in the Uk.
        The documentary seems to be made by some Internet based TV. Not mainstream TV.

    • Johan Börjesson

      January 27, 2012 at 1:49 pm

      Now this is a very good description on the problems with science and areas like cold fusion that a scientist as myself can recognize.

      I have earlier tried to get this message out. It does not include any conspiracies, evil scientists or errors in the scientific method. It has to do with economy, politics and the fact that scientists are only humans.

      Also the point that Rossi has done his development with a trail and error method is important. It meand that he doesn’t need much knowlege nor a theory in order to succeed. However, it will be harder to get credit from the scientific community and especially the nuclear phusics area since it is very theoretic. It also applies to F&P since it is very likely their theory was wrong (they saw LENR and not cold fusion) and therefore their experimental evidence was rejected too easily by many. It does not apologize their treatment but may explain it.

      • Pekka Janhunen

        January 27, 2012 at 5:37 pm

        When opening a discussion about E-cat with some scientists, the most common reaction is that they change the subject. It’s not a conspiracy, but some sort of instinctive defense reaction against a topic which is too large for the mind to handle.

        In my vocabulary, cold fusion and LENR are synonyms, and I prefer cold fusion because LENR is an English-specific acronym. Anyway both are just labels. If the net reaction is to produce Cu out of H and Ni (or He out of D) then it’s fusion by definition.

  29. spacegoat

    January 27, 2012 at 10:07 am

    No

  30. georgehants

    January 27, 2012 at 10:27 am

    “An optimist is a person who sees a green light everywhere, while a pessimist sees only the red stoplight… The truly wise person is colorblind.”

    A. Schweitzer

    • spacegoat

      January 27, 2012 at 10:39 am

      “The truly wise person is colorblind.”

      They are disabled?

  31. georgehants

    January 27, 2012 at 11:00 am

    From Facebook with thanks, Google translate,
    Pasquale de Santis

    Egr. Professor Braga
    The motivation to write this open letter addressed to you, is to express my regret at the fate that had the line of research on ‘”Energy catalyzer” Focardi and Rossi.

    Having been adopted son since 1952 of this ancient and valiant scientifically University that allowed me to grow culturally, politically and to develop a scientific level, I can not understand the motivations that led to the dissolution of the scientific report with this topic of great scientific interest and sociale.I my old masters such as Prof. Bonino and others, I think that would turn in his grave reading your press release on. Allow me to send you attached a document that justifies my reaction passionate about it, but also to fulfill a duty to Sergio Focardi and dell’UniBo other colleagues who have worked in parallel on this issue in the 90s.
    Sincerely
    Cav. Gr Cr. Prof. Ch E. Stremmenos
    former Ambassador of Greece in Italy

    Dear Stremmenos
    we live in difficult times – and you know it.
    It is difficult to disentangle between loyalty to a friend and teacher – Sergio Focardi, which are linked by profound respect and affection – the mantenimeno of correct relations between public institution and a private company that has legitimate commercial interests having a product to sell ( even if it’s something a bit special), and the interest of science and the public to know the exact nature of a phenomenon that has remarkable implications and potential.
    As Vice-Rector for research it is my duty to watch over these aspects. So it is clear – not a “scientific report” that is dissolved, but a “research report, commissioned” governed by a contract that has been treated exactly as they treated all the contracts of “third parties” that – thankfully – our departments established with public and private companies. The contract provided that the clauses could not be observed and therefore de facto was never activated. After propagate has been terminated, nothing wrong (if anything abnormal was the opposite, if I allow).
    After brief discussions do not, the university has encouraged the Department of Physics to make available “coram populo” his skills – but in return – and it could not be otherwise – the full availability of the results whatever they may be. This is what you would expect from a public institution.
    I hope I’ve clarified some doubts
    Darius
    Posted on 27.01.2012
    http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fradio.rcdc.it%2Farchives%2Fe-cat-unibo-la-reazione-di-stremmenos-e-la-replica-di-braga-94275%2F

    • Ivy Matt

      January 27, 2012 at 3:17 pm

      Well said!

      I’m not sure what kind of response Prof. Stremmenos was expecting to receive, though. Surely he is intelligent enough to understand that the contract fell through because Rossi didn’t keep his end of the bargain.

  32. spacegoat

    January 27, 2012 at 11:24 am

    “Rossi’s Engineering School Shut Down for Fraud”

    Kensington University, California (USA) – where “Energy Catalyzer” inventor Andrea Rossi obtained his chemical engineering degree was shut down for fraud.

    http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2012/01/11/rossi-engineering-school-shut-down-for-fraud/

    “State investigators found that the school awarded doctoral degrees after as little as four months’ work which consisted of reading magazine articles.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kensington_University

    The association with fraud goes on.

    • Tony

      January 27, 2012 at 12:14 pm

      Well, he a has first degree in the Philosophy of Science so has some brains.

      Whereas you appear to manifest none.

      • georgehants

        January 27, 2012 at 1:08 pm

        As scientific qualifications never have and probably never will have any correlation with Truth, Common Sense or Logic one finds it hard to understand any preoccupation with degrees etc.
        A qualification gives a certain license in many cases to be arrogant, closed-minded etc. and demand that lesser “qualified” underlings adhere to your Dogma without Evidence, unfortunately many do.

        • JNewman

          January 27, 2012 at 2:01 pm

          You create a conundrum. You say that for all questions one must “do the research” and gather “the evidence”. However, apparently trained scientists are not fit for the task because they are closed-minded, dogmatic and their qualifications have no correlation with the fitness to the task. So, who should be doing all this research? I suspect your real answer is that it should be people who are just as dogmatic as those whom you endlessly berate but whose doctrine is inverted from more commonly-held beliefs.

          Sites like this like to use the term “pseudo-skeptic” to describe anybody questioning the validity of E-cat claims. It’s really a made-up term so I suppose it can mean whatever you want. However, given that “pseudo” really means false, I would claim that a pseudo-skeptic is somebody who pretends to require additional evidence to form a belief but in reality already has his mind made up. And by that definition, there are many of those in residence.

          • georgehants

            January 27, 2012 at 2:11 pm

            JNewman, your reply is illogical and makes assumptions to support your rambling that come from fairyland.
            Answers
            The scientists who are fit for the task are fit for the task and those that are not are not.
            You then go haywire about sites like this where in fact 99% approx of rational observers are saying simply, enjoy the theater but until proof is forthcoming for or against keep an open-mind.
            Most of the unpleasantness is coming from the few irrationals who cannot except that, do not abuse, deny and prejudge but wait for the Evidence.
            Do you agree that is the only rational course.

          • JNewman

            January 27, 2012 at 2:18 pm

            George,the only abuse I see here comes from you describing what people say to you as illogical, rambling, from fairyland, etc. etc. (and I suppose also from poster Tony, who evidently is exempt from the site guidelines against insulting other posters.) I’ve politely asked you to behave yourself before but evidently you are incapable of it.

            I will therefore not listen to your lectures about what is rational until you walk the walk, as they say. Carry on as I’m sure you will!

        • spacegoat

          January 27, 2012 at 2:30 pm

          “As scientific qualifications never have and probably never will have any correlation with Truth, Common Sense or Logic one finds”

          Well they certainly are correlated with truth and logic because science uses mathematics as its language.

          Regarding the other property:
          “There is nothing more uncommon than common sense.”
          Anonymous saying, dating back at least to its citation in Natural Theology (1836) by Thomas Chalmers

          I agree with you George that the political system of control of science lacks those properties.

          • georgehants

            January 27, 2012 at 2:41 pm

            spacegoat, good day, as always I talk in generalities as one must on these comments or would be qualifying every word.
            Mathematicians are the gods, but they have such a narrow area of common sense, Logic. Truth to content with, but as I am sure you are aware Godel’s Incompleteness Theorems blew them apart, and they have never full recovered from the fact of uncertainty in their wonderful solid World.
            It must be seen that Common Sense is not a thing that qualifications endow on somebody any more than truth or logic, the people with the most common sense are usually people living with the land or who faced with and handle well the common realities of life

        • Ivy Matt

          January 27, 2012 at 3:00 pm

          I would think someone who wasn’t preoccupied with scientific qualifications wouldn’t see the need to obtain an engineering degree from a diploma mill.

    • HanzJager

      January 27, 2012 at 12:27 pm

      Ok, now show me where Rossi is a fraud then I’ll be impressed.

      • spacegoat

        January 27, 2012 at 2:05 pm

        Tony.

        Don’t shoot the messenger. Would you have such confidence in your doctor if he had qualifications from a fake institution?

        HanzJager,
        I never accused AR of fraud. Just association therewith.

  33. georgehants

    January 27, 2012 at 2:26 pm

    JNewman, I will not walk away, please show where my analysis of your post is in error and my judgement of it.
    No insults but fair appraisal.
    As always with you and your ken you have not answered the elementary question, not rambling like yours, but a straight honest question.
    Please answer the question.

    • JNewman

      January 27, 2012 at 2:34 pm

      George, I did not tell you to walk away. I told you to walk the walk. Look it up. And enough with the empty-rhetoric questions (“Do you believe in truth and justice or not?”). Just proclaim another victim of your crushing logic and move on.

      • georgehants

        January 27, 2012 at 2:44 pm

        JNewman, like most of your ken you go round and round never able or willing to answer a straight question.
        Without being abuse, from the Evidence you seem to enjoy keep making a fool of your self.
        Please answer the Question —–
        Most of the unpleasantness is coming from the few irrationals who cannot except that, do not abuse, deny and prejudge but wait for the Evidence.
        Do you agree that is the only rational course.

        • JNewman

          January 27, 2012 at 2:51 pm

          If waiting for the evidence was the only rational course and you were truly rational, then you would just shut up and wait until we get some real answers. So answer your own vague question.

          • georgehants

            January 27, 2012 at 3:02 pm

            JNewman, I think you have proven my point, until you answer the question your comments would seem to be pointless and baseless.
            I will leave you with that conundrum and wait for any rational points.
            Thank you.

            like most of your ken you go round and round never able or willing to answer a straight question.
            Without being abuse, from the Evidence you seem to enjoy keep making a fool of your self.
            Please answer the Question —–
            Most of the unpleasantness is coming from the few irrationals who cannot except that, do not abuse, deny and prejudge but wait for the Evidence.
            Do you agree that is the only rational course.

          • JNewman

            January 27, 2012 at 3:34 pm

            I will leave you with that conundrum and wait for any rational points.

            If only…

  34. Mahron - A4 B3

    January 27, 2012 at 3:16 pm

    Its getting hot in here !

    Only half of use will have a good laugh in the end. But who will it be ? Mystery, Mystery !

  35. Pekka Janhunen

    January 27, 2012 at 3:54 pm

    (Still off-topic, sorry) @George: I think you have a good point in “world is quantum”. Although scientists in principle know it well, the philosophy of science is stuck in the pre-quantum era.

    Finnish nuclear physicist Kalervo Laurikainen (1916-1997) thought that a “contradiction” between science and religion was only artificial and stemmed from applying a mechanistic, pre-quantum world view. During his later years he wrote several books on such topics trying to find a world view compatible with quantum mechanics, but I’m not sure if any have been translated.

    • georgehants

      January 27, 2012 at 4:04 pm

      Pekka, thank you, a little sanity is good.
      A little update on my preaching that FTL in the Quantum World has been known for 100 years.
      Quantum physicists shed new light on relation between entanglement and nonlocality
      http://bristol.ac.uk/news/2012/8195.html

  36. Camilo

    January 27, 2012 at 3:57 pm

    All this fuss remembers me about a chapter of one of Scott Adam’s Dilbert Books. He was talking about new energy technologies, and one of his examples of free energy was to hold a meeting of Unix Users in a closed room. At one point of the meeting, one of the organizing persons would let slip a comment such as: Anyway, “the Mac experience to the user is undeniably superior”, obviusly causing a lot of argumentation. At that moment, a door would be opened and a turbine would harness the massive flow of hot air, thus providing “Free Energy”. I think this is what is happening around Rossi’s saga. At some point, and I happen to agree with JNewman in this, one has to shut up, sit and wait, better thank keeping in a circular argument about “who’s wrong or right”.

    • Ivy Matt

      January 28, 2012 at 12:33 pm

      That’s not “free energy”; that’s *surplus* energy. And we have a lot of it to go around these days with our modern lifestyles and the general scarcity of jobs requiring backbreaking labor.

  37. georgehants

    January 27, 2012 at 4:14 pm

    Newsletter Issue # 3 Official ECAT.com News
    ECAT.COM News
    ECAT.com went to Bologna to interview Andrea Rossi in January. Here is what he revealed.

    Thank you for subscribing to ECAT.com’s newsletter. The response on the website has been overwhelming so far and we thank all of you who has put their name on the pre-order list for an home E-Cat unit. There are many questions surrounding this new technology and hopefully more of your questions will be answered below.
    The team behind ECAT.com traveled to Bologna on the 12th of January and we got an exclusive interview with Andrea Rossi. Here are the main points:
    The ECAT Home unit (domestic E-Cat) will be a small box applied to existing heaters. It will be like a software installed in a computer
    The domestic E-Cat will be ready for the market between 12-18 months
    A new factory is being built which is completely robotized
    “We are finding a way to make good efficiency for electric power”
    The 10kW home unit can easily be integrated with existing heating systems
    Andrea Rossi is working on a solution for an independent validation of the ECAT together with two universities but prefers not to mention them by name
    A certification process is on the way to prove the ECAT Home unit safe for domestic use
    Rossi and his workforce are making experiments and tests in a closed environment in his factory rather than “in a theater”
    “We have some kind of fusion inside but I do not think this is the main energy source”
    About competitors: “We will be very tough to be beaten”
    Price per kilowatt is estimated to $40-$50 for domestic units and approx $1,500/kW for the industrial line. Price gap is mainly due to use of different technologies and manufacturing processes between the two ECAT models.
    Costs for maintenance and recharge for the domestic unit will be “some tens of dollars or some tens of euros”
    Rossi aims to achieve the goal where the 1MW plant will have a payback period (ROI) of about one year.
    Warranties will be the usual ones covered by the laws for any device in serial production. Up to two years due to any eventual shortcomings deriving from the manufacturing process. Money back if the E-Cat does not meet guaranteed performance data.
    Don’t forget to check all the questions answered at http://faq.ecat.com Currently containing over 300+ answers, all tagged and easy to search. If you are interested to watch all E-Cat videos, follow this link
    We wish you all a great weekend.
    The ECAT.com Team

    • Al Potenza

      January 27, 2012 at 5:11 pm

      I am trying to understand why it’s taking so long to get a university test. I suppose it’s about secrecy.

      But universities do secret research work for the US DOD all the time. They even work on hydrogen bomb research. Can’t they be trusted with an ecat for a couple of weeks? Can’t someone from Rossi’s company go with the ecat and make sure nobody opens it?

      • Mahron - A4 B3

        January 27, 2012 at 5:17 pm

        It’s all about the money, money money
        It’s all about the dum dum du du du dum

        • Al Potenza

          January 27, 2012 at 5:57 pm

          What money is that? The $500,000 which was talked about was to help Rossi understand how the ecat works. He says he knows now and that part of the work is no longer needed.

          So the question is now about testing the ecat at a university only enough to prove it works. That should cost much less. And Rossi, if he has sold 13 megawatt plants at $2 million each, should have plenty of money!

          • Mahron - A4 B3

            January 27, 2012 at 6:15 pm

            True.

          • Pekka Janhunen

            January 27, 2012 at 6:43 pm

            The best theory that I know and that many have probably independently discovered is that at any point in time he only needs enough credibility and its associated publicity to sell his production. More publicity would just spur competition and paparazzi. When he scales up production, he needs more customers so at some point he’ll need independent verification.

  38. georgehants

    January 27, 2012 at 4:36 pm

    Has anybody noticed the return to quality of the Vortex forum since certain individuals have been removed from writing endless repetitive dribble.

    • Tony

      January 27, 2012 at 6:43 pm

      Well Mary Yugo is appearing as Al Potenza here

    • Frank

      January 27, 2012 at 8:36 pm

      No, not at all!
      Or should I consider threads like this one
      http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg62499.html
      as valuable information?

      I will no longer follow up the threads on the ‘vortex’ web-site, because I don’t expect any balanced informations from a discussion group when controversial opinions and arguments are banned (or should I say ‘censored’?)

  39. JNewman

    January 27, 2012 at 4:59 pm

    No.

    Endless repetitive dribble? Oh, you mean like:

    “Like most of your ken you go round and round never able or willing to answer a straight question.
    Without being abuse, from the Evidence you seem to enjoy keep making a fool of your self.
    Please answer the Question —–
    Most of the unpleasantness is coming from the few irrationals who cannot except that, do not abuse, deny and prejudge but wait for the Evidence.
    Do you agree that is the only rational course.”

    • georgehants

      January 27, 2012 at 5:39 pm

      O’dear what to do, JNewman I am not a person who is going to be frightened away by the irrational skeptics trick of browbeating.
      If you wish to ask me a straight sensible question please do and I shall answer to the best of my ability.
      You have demonstrated you will not answer such a fair question, so why are you continuing to disrupt this site.

      • JNewman

        January 27, 2012 at 5:52 pm

        Frighten you away? Au contraire. This site would hardly be any fun at all without you.

        To everyone else, sorry for all the back and forth with George. It is hard to resist.

        • Al Potenza

          January 27, 2012 at 5:59 pm

          Please try!

          • JNewman

            January 27, 2012 at 6:09 pm

            I shall.

        • georgehants

          January 27, 2012 at 6:02 pm

          Admin, I think that JNewman’s reply says it all, nothing but wishing to cause trouble.
          I am sure most people on this site would rather not have stupid argumentative comments that are never designed to settle a debate.
          To keep out of trouble most people simply do not respond, that is not the answer, but a warning to debate the subject or state as purely personal opinion, which nobody can object to.

    • Tony

      January 27, 2012 at 6:48 pm

      I keep my invective short whilst you waffle on wrapping up your nastiness in supposed reasonable argument. We can see through it, so cut the pretence.

  40. Ivan Mohorovicic

    January 27, 2012 at 5:45 pm

    • Frank

      January 27, 2012 at 8:49 pm

      It seems to be pretty cold inside Rossi’s workshop. (Watch the video and see how all the people are dressed)
      Did ever somebody ask Rossi why he has some conventional portable gas-heater in his workshop, instead of useing his e-cats for heating?
      Why should I replace my heating system by an e-cat when he still uses gas-heaters in his premise?

      • Pekka Janhunen

        January 28, 2012 at 6:51 am

        one possible reason: the e-cats produce steam, to get it out they have doors open somewhere, otherwise everything would become dripping wet which is dangerous for electric equipment

  41. Ivan Mohorovicic

    January 27, 2012 at 6:09 pm

    The E-Cat International Patent rights have been transfered from Maddalena Pascucci (Rossi’s wife) to Leonardo Corporation:

    https://register.epo.org/espacenet/application?documentId=ESQ5ITGD5836FI4&number=EP08873805&lng=en&npl=false

  42. H. Visscher

    January 27, 2012 at 7:36 pm

    • Timar

      January 27, 2012 at 8:09 pm

      Too bad they don’t have some secret catalyst for sell too!

      I guess soon you’ll get a Thames & Kosmos LENR Experiment Kit (for the age of 10+) at the local toy store.

      • Peter Roe

        January 27, 2012 at 8:36 pm

        Sadly elfin safety will make sure that never happens. Gone are the days when you could blow up your dad’s shed with your chemistry set, or build a rail gun with your junior experimenter kit (sigh).

        • Tony

          January 27, 2012 at 11:24 pm

          That’s annoying. I suppose the patent for my Lithium hairspray won’t get through then?

  43. Paul C

    January 28, 2012 at 12:44 am

    Its pretty clear now that Dr Rossi has moved on and forward with a deal with National Instruments to move this forward very quickly now, Rossi has shown to be a very astute business professional that is very confident in his eCat technology, the future looks very promising from here.