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World-Wide Domestic eCat Sales From Day One

January 5, 2012

I have to admit surprise. AR announces that sales will be Global from the get-go once they go live (hopefully Autumn this year) in the US. This will happen after they receive accreditation. Since any such system is not universal, it may simply be a pragmatic push to spread the tech through a global army of enthusiasts, entrepreneurs, educators and researchers rather than something intended to match the US effort at launch day.

If US accreditation is successful, the ensuing publicity will likely cause a stampede at the very time politicians in Nanny States become aware. Unless the safety certification process is also being mirrored in the EU and other major customer hubs, I can’t see many getting through the gates.

Perhaps his partner has a global presence and is helping but that may just be wishful thinking.

Given Rossi’s European roots, I hope he has this covered.

Mario
January 5th, 2012 at 9:17 AM

Dear Andrea,
When will the E-cat Home be available in europe (Belgium)
Could it also be in Autumn 2012? Or will the first delivery in america.
The price setting is good news for my small purse.
Warm Regards,
Mario

Andrea Rossi
January 5th, 2012 at 10:09 AM

Dear Mario:
When we will put for sale the 10 kW E-Cats ( presumably in Autumn 2012) the sales will be made worlwide by internet and by our licensees, the same day all over the world. Of course in the meantime we will have made all the necessary certifications.
We are organizing not only the production, but also the logistics for the distribution with specialists.
Warm Regards,
Andrea Rossi

I wonder where Defkalion will be in the race then?

[With thanks to Arian]

Posted by on January 5, 2012. Filed under Business,licencing,Roll-Out,Uncategorized. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0. You can leave a response or trackback to this entry

78 Responses to World-Wide Domestic eCat Sales From Day One

  1. arian Reply

    January 5, 2012 at 5:14 pm

    New article from dvice.com about e-cat

    http://dvice.com/archives/2012/01/e-cat-household.php

  2. Camilo Reply

    January 5, 2012 at 5:21 pm

    In the case of Chile, if it has CE certification, it will enter without nobody even noticing it is a game changing tech. Even without it, if it’s shipped as an electric water heater, then nobody will figure it out.

  3. Peter Hunt Reply

    January 5, 2012 at 5:38 pm

    THe US Government will stand in the way fro pure self serving bureaucratic reasons. The NRC will find it hazardous – which it might be – the insurance co’s and energy industry – from wall to wall – will unleash it’s congressional might and will fight it like crazy. Indeed the impediments – no matter what advantages in climate change and reducing the rate of limited resource consumption.

    Until the international competition is getting way ahead of anything we have will it be released for selective use here in the US.

    This is going to be a real revelation on what and how this “democracy” operates, I am sorry to say. Look for asia to lead on this.

    At a senior age who has been supporting LENR since 1990 I am discouraged.

    • georgehants Reply

      January 5, 2012 at 6:07 pm

      Peter three things—–

      We should all celebrate every job lost to technology improvements. E-CAT = many.
      Only productivity matters to the World, to supply all needs and fair luxuries.
      With no money and finance half the population would be out of work.
      with all these unemployed sharing the necessary work everybody could retire at say 45 if they wished.

    • CM Edwards Reply

      January 5, 2012 at 6:49 pm

      I’m not as pessimistic about the US Government suppressing this technology.

      Make no mistake, there’ll be political infighting. There always is where money is involved. But there are limits to the power of corporate interests to suppress information. I believe that politicians who want to be re-elected will eventually line up with public opinion.

      I have no doubt that balance of public opinion will be positive.

      There will be bureaucratic hurdles. There is no way around them. However, there are ways over and through them. I expect a standard operating procedure will be quickly established.

      • RichyRoo Reply

        January 5, 2012 at 11:52 pm

        I disagree with your argument but agree with your conclusion. If the MSM dont cover it, Joe 6 pack wont know it exists and cant vote accordingly, thus politicians wont be worried.
        The ECat will be brought into the market for the sole reason that only a new energy source can save the banking system.

        • Peter Roe Reply

          January 6, 2012 at 9:13 am

          Exactly. The technology can ONLY succeed in the US if those who control the banks and the corporate media decide on balance to ‘allow’ it. In turn this will only be the case if ways are found that allow the introduction to be fully controlled in a way that will not damage existing interests, and will yield profits equal to, or greater than, any potential losses and write-offs. This will include the inevitable losses that will be suffered by the nuclear industry and ‘big oil’, both essentially owned by the banks.

          There is no visible sign at present that this might be the case, other than Rossi’s slightly inexplicable euphoria.

    • spacegoat Reply

      January 5, 2012 at 11:46 pm

      Correct Peter … the Nanny State countries are in a dilemma … whether to lift some of the mafia like take-take burden on the people’s energy supplies …. or whether to release the engine of vastly increased productivity that “free energy” gifts to us.

      As you point out, Asia will take the humanitarian route (the latter) and leave the West far behind.

      On previous threads it has been amazing how Nanny State residents have been calculating disgusting governmental tax plans for them, including remote surveillance that probably costs more than the ecat. Laughable. Serfdom abounds in the Nanny States.

      • Peter Roe Reply

        January 6, 2012 at 8:29 am

        @spacegoat: “Laughable. Serfdom abounds in the Nanny States.”

        Wrong. Cynical realism and a great deal of anger abounds in the banker-controlled states.

        The rest of your analysis is probably correct. It will be interesting to watch for signs of internal warfare among our ‘masters’.

    • Mark Goldes Reply

      January 6, 2012 at 12:53 am

      The E-Cat may prove not to be nuclear.

      Should that be confirmed, the NRC would not have jurisdiction.

      However, it may interfere with patent positions. As that would mean it likely incorporates prior art previously patented by Randell Mills and BlackLight Power and/or Thermacore, which obtained a U.S. Patent on a Nickel Hydrogen non-nuclear system in 1993.

      • CM Edwards Reply

        January 6, 2012 at 2:55 pm

        The NRC has jurisdiction over X-ray tubes and other non-nuclear sources of ionizing radiation, too.

        They may decide that the E-cat is outside their jurisdiction, but with reports of radiation emissions from LENR, you may be certain that someone at the NRC will be asking about it. Once they officially admit it exists, that is.

  4. Al Potenza Reply

    January 5, 2012 at 6:20 pm

    Robert Leguillon has written Rossi about the testing at the University of Bologna which, many hoped, was scheduled to begin soon. Thus far, Rossi has not responded. You can read the Vortex post here:

    http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg60556.html

    If Rossi fails to follow through with confirmation by “UNIBO”, it may be a long time before we know whether his invention will ever amount to anything useful. If he won’t trust UNIBO with an ecat, how can he trust customers when he sells them one? IMHO, something here doesn’t compute right. I hope Robert gets a reassuring answer.

  5. Mahron Reply

    January 5, 2012 at 6:36 pm

    Still no new on research. If the product price is so low that reverse engineering will be a “Hobby”, why no spill the beans to research labs right now ? He has a big enough head start.

    Who knows what will be discovered once they understand whats going on. Maybe it works with all kinds of fuels and maybe even better.

    I hope it has already started in secret somewhere. Otherwise Every day is a wasted day.

  6. Martin Reply

    January 5, 2012 at 7:47 pm

    World wide sales, Well that answers my earlier question. Things sure are moving at a pace now, can’t help but think the Nationa Instruments connection is the second catalyst

  7. Jesse Reply

    January 5, 2012 at 7:54 pm

    What happened to AmpEnergo? Are they still involved?

  8. Kim Reply

    January 5, 2012 at 11:33 pm

    Andrea Rossi
    January 5th, 2012 at 11:47 AM

    Dear Bernie Koppenhofer:
    Thank you for your suggestions, but be sure, we are a well fueled warship.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    Would this “well fueled warship be a Navy Contract???

    Respect
    Kim

  9. Thinkin1 Reply

    January 6, 2012 at 1:34 am

    Rossi is sounding remarkably optimistic…
    Just from a practical point of view (without interference from the fossil fuel lobby etc.) I really think it will take him longer than that to get through the numerous regulatory hurdles for such a new and untested technology especially on a global scale… for example insurance issues and building codes which vary from place to place within countries. These regulatory bodies need to know beyond a reasonable doubt that e-cats won’t be exploding people’s houses on a regular basis.

    • Peter Roe Reply

      January 6, 2012 at 8:48 am

      “Rossi is sounding remarkably optimistic…”

      He is, isn’t he! When people behave like Rossi, it usually means they have some new and game-changing information that no-one else has. The new buoyancy seems to date from the the announcement of the breakthrough by NI, so it is possible that the ‘breakthrough’ may make approval and regulatory processes less problematic in some way. Perhaps the core process no longer emits any significant radiation, or he now has a confirmable theory of operation that involves a new physics that is non-nuclear in the conventional sense (if so he will not need the UniBo study).

      The only other possibility I can see is that he has received some promises from near the top that approval is not going to be a problem in the US, where he seems to be focusing his efforts. In this (seemingly unlikely, for all the reasons prviously mentioned in this thread) case, then the rest of the Western world would fall quickly into line.

      • Pekka Janhunen Reply

        January 6, 2012 at 9:16 am

        The promise-from-the-top scenario is possible, and at the same time worrying: no one is in a position to give such a definite promise. While a backing of his corporate partners is certainly very helpful, one cannot know beforehand the outcome of a certification process. Starting the process in more than one country would be a good idea.

        Maybe he has already received some sort of official US decision, based on behind the scenes testing in Bologna or elsewhere, that the ‘catget’ is not considered as a nuclear device. This is of course pure speculation.

        It’s mysterious how Leonardo could start selling worldwide at the same date, as if there could be some simple universal solution to certification. Perhaps (although this sounds also unlikely) the customer has to sign some paper that frees the manufacturer from all liabilities.

        • Pekka Janhunen Reply

          January 6, 2012 at 9:38 am

          Speaking of certification, some things are surprisingly little controlled nowadays. A few weeks back a cargo ship needed piloting in stormy weather in the rocky Finnish archipelago. When the ship ported after her adventurous trip, the customs officials found that she was carrying 150 tonnes of explosives and 69 Patriot antimissile missiles. The explosives were packed loose in the cargo hold so that some of the boxes were broken. It turned out that the missiles were a normal shipment to South Korea who had bought them from Germany. The ship had come to Finland to pick some unrelated cargo to China.
          The point is that the port authorities had no automatic way of getting to know about the dangerous cargo in this case. After they knew, they declared a 1 km evacuation zone around the ship in the harbour.

          • Peter Roe

            January 6, 2012 at 10:03 am

            Astonishing! The international arms industry apparently has some ‘special license’ to do more or less whatever it wants.

            There was also the gamma-emitting shipping container with an unshielded cobalt-60 source in it, that was found in an Italian port earlier this year.

            Probably hundreds of very dangerous shipments take place every week. Double standards seem to be the norm everywhere.

  10. Dale G. Basgall Reply

    January 6, 2012 at 9:08 am

    Re admin. statement; “Given Rossi’s European roots, I hope he has this covered.”

    Is there Home Depot’s in Europe?

    That’s where the parts on the first demo’s were purchased I bet! Anyway the plumbers bag in the first few videos was classic. Didn’t they show “the plumber” a small framed skinny guy huddled in a corner, “like an egor”. He could tell how Mr. Rossi built the first demo e-cat’s using the plumbers tools.

    Re admin question; “I wonder where Defkalion will be in the race then?”

    Answer-Last.

    • Peter Roe Reply

      January 6, 2012 at 9:29 am

      “Is there Home Depot’s in Europe?”

      Not here (UK) but there are several fairly large ‘white goods’ distributors and DIY stores. Most of them are busily going bust at the moment due to the economic situation.

      • Alain Reply

        January 6, 2012 at 10:53 am

        there is a few Home dépot in france, but they don’t have a good network.

        in france I hesitate between Darty, who is very good in home electronic (white and brown) and base it’s success on good servicing. however they are not experienced in heavy construction products (plumbing, furnace…).

        and Home-Depot like chains, like Leroy-Merlin, Castorama, Bricorama… but they are not good in servicing themselves. they simply have local contracts with small construction/repair enterprises…

        for me LM/carto/Brico chains could be good to sell and find subcontractants, trained by a local builder…
        Darty may rather change it’s model to train it’s workforce to maintain e-cat devices, but should subcontract the installation to trained plumbers.

        finally the french way could be:
        - one company like saunierduval take the license and build furnace/boiler with e-cat inside
        - they make (subcontract) school for plumbers, and give diploma, that allow to install and maintain those devices.
        - once you want to install such a device, you ask saunierduval where to find an agreed plumber that can install and maintain their machine safely.

        however who knows ? maybe someone will invent a new model like some did with internet, or like Darty or Carefour long ago…

  11. georgehants Reply

    January 6, 2012 at 10:07 am

    With no money or finance there would be nobody to cause any problems to the Cold Fusion release as the only criteria for production would be that it puts more people out of work to enjoy their lives.
    Silly but true.
    People seem to never be able to say the present system is crazy lets build a new one from scratch and integrate it slowly into the old.
    Not Capitalism, not Communism but a completely new way based just on production and leading to fairness and rewarding those who do most for society and not just themselves.

    • Guru Reply

      January 6, 2012 at 1:51 pm

      WHO will decide for amount of “rewarding” these successful inventors and scientists ?

      a) Council of older guys ?
      b) Central committee of pale red bolsheviks ?
      c) Kabbal of highest 300 ?

      George, no tricks. You must write/invent “WHO” !!

      • georgehants Reply

        January 6, 2012 at 2:15 pm

        Guru, You like everybody on this page can easily think of the answers to all problems and questions.
        Try looking at the positives and find answers to any negatives, nothing can be worse than the system used at present.

        • Guru Reply

          January 6, 2012 at 3:27 pm

          this is your typical smooth escape.

          George write exactly how will functional your system without money !

          • georgehants

            January 6, 2012 at 5:05 pm

            Guru, Nothing smooth I have no wish to discuss things with people who are just negative.
            I made the serious point that you or anybody can easily answer your question if you think, so why are you accusing me of evasion.
            If you cannot think of an good answer to the problem at least lets see your best try.

      • spacegoat Reply

        January 6, 2012 at 3:27 pm

        No Who is necessary to decide on “rewarding”.
        Ultimately … Access to land+ unlimited energy => food, water, materials availability for all => people will have security to reorganize as they wish. Change will come bottom up.

        Science may return to a spirit of true discovery with its own intrinsic reward. Newton, the greatest scientist who ever lived had no patents or marketing deals. Stephen Hawking finds it adequate to sell a few books. When I qualified as a scientist the only options were teaching or helping to design the vaporization of millions. Thus I left science.

        Not everyone is motivated by more money, but they are forced into this struggle to obtain the essentials of life. If LENR ramps up, it will provide life’s essentials and material security for all. Then, the major political issue becomes land.

        • Pekka Janhunen Reply

          January 6, 2012 at 3:46 pm

          spacegoat: “Then, the major political issue becomes land.” Yes, and space.

        • georgehants Reply

          January 6, 2012 at 6:19 pm

          spacegoat, yes everybody is entitled to all basic living needs including housing and it works up from there.
          All working people can achieve higher rewards but only by work for society including entertainment sport etc.
          Nothing except personal effects can be left to children etc. they start again from fresh.
          no super rich but everybody rewarded for their own efforts, fairly.

  12. georgehants Reply

    January 6, 2012 at 10:24 am

    The answer for replicating the unknown reaction in Cold Fusion could have been found.
    With this method it could be found by Quantum computing the conditions found in the E-CAT etc.

    http://physics.aps.org/synopsis-for/10.1103/PhysRevLett.108.010502

  13. georgehants Reply

    January 6, 2012 at 10:57 am

    Sorry guys a bit late for Christmas and New Year
    Herbal drug reduces the effects of alcohol

    http://medicalxpress.com/news/2012-01-herbal-drug-effects-alcohol.html

    • CM Edwards Reply

      January 6, 2012 at 3:03 pm

      Thanks, George.

      I have a friend who’ll probably want one for his yard.

  14. arian Reply

    January 6, 2012 at 4:53 pm

    #
    Andrea Rossi
    January 6th, 2012 at 11:42 AM

    Dear K. Dobrolecki:
    We must make a distinction between the price of the industrial plants and the price of the domestic plants.
    For the industrial plants ( the 1 MW plants) the price from 2012 will be around 1,500.00 US$/kW, moreless 10%.
    The domestic E-Cats of 10 kW will be manufactured with a different technology and with a very good economy scale, due to the fact that we have started the production of 1 million pieces; such scale, obviously, will reduce by an order of magnitude the costs. If all goes as I hope and as I am working for, the 10 kW E-Cats will cost between 100 and 150 US$/kW. This fact will:
    1- allow to everybody to buy an E-Cat
    2- cancel the competition
    The reverse engineering will be, I think, impossible, due to a system we invented for this purpose, but even if somebody will succeed to do it, it will anyway be impossible for him to compete economically. The 1 MW plants have a totally different technology and engineering.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • Dale G. Basgall Reply

      January 6, 2012 at 5:41 pm

      The statement Mr. Andrea Rossi made in the text of the e-mail furnished by arian “The reverse engineering will be, I think, impossible, due to a system we invented for this purpose, but even if somebody will succeed to do it, it will anyway be impossible for him to compete economically.”, clearly indicates the type of individual that is in doubt that what he has is protectable. These statements are diversionary. Andrea Rossi has nothing but his hot air and bad attitude for others.

      He is the kind of individual that will make claims of his success by showing an incomplete non stable operating device that obviously cannot be tested to satisfy others that would clearly show if his claims are true or false to others, and making the statement contending it is “impossible” for others to do what he has done and therefore in my eyes paints his own face (Rossi) black.

      His statement is appalling and untrue given it’s best merits. Mary Yugo said it best and truthful when asked why are you so interested in LENR and the reply from Yugo was the interest in how scams like this can be more powerful that actual working machinery. That was the jist of the comment on this site months ago.

      This is what is killing the LENR, the person that put’s something out contending it would be “impossible” for others to replicate “his” non working devices. And that in specific that he designed a method to prevent reverse engineering. Anyone with common sense reading statements like the ones Rossi is making is surely getting amusement like on Saturday Night Live.

    • Mahron Reply

      January 6, 2012 at 5:58 pm

      Thats great !

      So if the ecat works, It will be a black box generating energy unlike anything else before by a physically unknown method. Funny stuff really.

  15. arian Reply

    January 6, 2012 at 5:34 pm

    The beginning of a new era

    Book written by Camillo Urbani

    Camillo Urbani profile
    I am a physicist and in the last twenty years I have devoted myself to study the phenomenon of cold fusion and free energy. Given that the main problem is the lack of a shared theory that can explain the phenomenon, I thought I’d share my knowledge. In a forum of more ‘followed on the subject (www.energeticambiente.it) I opened a thread that has had some success with the public in which I wrote last year.

    In the quest to make myself understood even by less experienced, I wanted to explain some basic concepts of physics to allow everyone to understand what he was talking about and why science can not accept the cold fusion so easily. I then introduced some concepts of quantum mechanics in this field can help us to understand something more ‘.

    Since the work was interesting I thought I would group the more ‘relevant in a book. Of course there is no intention to give an official theory, but just some ideas to give the reader a chance to get an idea. I think anyone interested in reading fluently and find information. I hope that disclosing this information may be of interest, and help the cold fusion to be something a little ‘less mysterious.

    http://www.ecatnews.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/E-cat-english.pdf

  16. georgehants Reply

    January 6, 2012 at 6:02 pm

    From Facebook to a link below.
    Friday, January 6, 2012
    Even Francesco Celani of the WSEC 2012 (II)
    After the post the other day , where I lingered on the promoters and sponsors of the 2012 WSEC, as I warned this afternoon between the comments, I agree with you all something new about the participation of Francesco Celani Congress.
    Francis has authorized me to anticipate that an announcement of Geneva will be of great scientific value. He added it already delivered to the abstract organization of the congress, last paragraph. Gustav R. Grob (which I mentioned in the first post I dedicated to WSEC 2012) has gladly accepted the integration.
    I will give you a preview of the draft of the paragraph in question (tomorrow will make the entire downloadable abstracts will be included in the official acts of Congress and replace the already released versions):

    These weeks in our group, working with long and thin wires coated with HAVING the surface micro-nano-particles, get re-confirmation of a phenomenon, by us, in some previous experiments seldom Observed: the specific alloy used (Cu-Ni) , That Usually has T emperature P osito oefficient C (PTC) of the resistance, if Absorbs large amount of Hydrogen, changes to N eGate CT. Such phenomenon is Correlated to anomalous heat production and heat Increases as the anomalous increases. Such phenomenon if key will be kept under full control, Because ITS can be Observed behavior with simple instrumentation, it can well open the door to systematic work, worldwide, to find the “optimal” material and operating point.
    I believe that physicists and engineers will not escape that if Celani has been right, we were finally a real “markers” of cold fusion.
    Goodnight and see you tomorrow.

    http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2F22passi.blogspot.com%2F2012%2F01%2Fancora-su-francesco-celani-al-wsec-2012_06.html

    • spacegoat Reply

      January 7, 2012 at 11:49 am

      Rossi: “The reverse engineering will be, I think, impossible, due to a system we invented for this purpose, but even if somebody will succeed to do it, it will anyway be impossible for him to compete economically.”

      Rossi could have become very wealthy AND gone down in history as the man that birthed LENR to the world.

      But now it is plain to see his avarice and delay is revolting. Apparently he is the man with the keys to future human prosperity and happiness … and all he can think about is making Everest like money mountains!

      How much time has been spent on ensuring “impossible reverse engineering” and ensuring a million unit capable production? This delay is causing tremendous human suffering (not least in Ecatnews followers :-) . A proper announcement and authentic demonstration, say in a receptive high-technology country, like Singapore would have focused the world’s attention. Now, I fear the world will be focused on the charade in the Middle East that is about to erupt.

      Disappointed with Rossi.

  17. JNewman Reply

    January 6, 2012 at 7:35 pm

    As someone who has spent 25 years working on bringing new technology into the marketplace, I would point out that there are two rules of the game that are uncontrovertible and unchanging:

    If you want people to buy new technology, you have to prove that it works.

    If you plan to manufacture in quantity a device containing new technology, you have to have already solved all the problems of building a single one of them.

    If anybody thinks these things are unimportant, they are not living in the real world.

    • CM Edwards Reply

      January 6, 2012 at 7:58 pm

      Have you told Microsoft Corporation about Rule Number 2?

      What did they say? :)

    • Thicket Reply

      January 6, 2012 at 8:20 pm

      JNewman

      Are you Joseph Newman, the person who developed the Energy Machine?

      Newman’s claims were that his device produced more mechanical energy out than electrical energy put in.

      The Energy Machine claims have been around since the mid-1980s. It’s widely regarded as pseudoscience. As a result of legal actions, the National Institute of Standards and Technology tested the device for several months. Every test showed that the energy output was less than the power input from the battery pack.

      Newman’s court challenge failed. His patent was denied, and subsequently withdrawn by Newman.

      The case is now cited in the USPTO’s Manual of Patent Examining Procedure as an example of an “inoperative” invention that can’t have any utility, concretely as a perpetual motion machine.

      In August 2007 the state of Alabama Securities Commission issued a cease and desist order against the “Newman Energy Corp”, because it was selling unregistered securities of its company

      • JNewman Reply

        January 6, 2012 at 8:41 pm

        Um, no.

        • Thicket Reply

          January 6, 2012 at 9:33 pm

          Cool. My apologies for the suggestion. Joseph Newman has been developing new technology for 25 years, but it’s pseudoscientific garbage.

          • JNewman

            January 6, 2012 at 9:56 pm

            No offense taken. Imagine developing pseudoscientific garbage for 25 years… That must be technology composting.

  18. JNewman Reply

    January 6, 2012 at 8:03 pm

    Microsoft doesn’t sell new technology and who says they are living in the real world anyway?

  19. arian Reply

    January 6, 2012 at 9:42 pm

    • Renzo Reply

      January 6, 2012 at 9:52 pm

      Let’s bet how long it takes for the first MY comment :)

  20. arian Reply

    January 6, 2012 at 10:15 pm

    from http://e-catsite.com

    U.S. Department of Energy official Al Opdenaker in another e-mail in response to an LENR inquiry. A member of the e-Cat Facebook community (Cold Fusion “Andrea Rossi” Method),David Lang, recently wrote Mr. Opdenaker thanking him for the open-mindedness he expressed regarding LENR in the e-mail exchange posted on this site a couple of weeks ago. In response, Mr. Opdenaker wrote:

    “I was a total skeptic in 1989 with P and F. It sounded like total craziness to me. I have switched to a willing to see how things go with the Rossi device and several other similar ideas that are currently out there. I have tried not to get wrapped up in whether it is cold fusion or LENR or even magic if it can be demonstrated to work, I will accept it. Several people I respect say that the Rossi device can lead to real advances in energy in the next 10 years or so and that sounds like really good news for all of us. The proof needs to be in the pudding as they say. Let’s look at the experimental results and the theoretical backup and it can be judged from there.”

  21. Thicket Reply

    January 6, 2012 at 10:39 pm

    In a JONP response to Jonatan, Rossi stated that he was making 1 million eCats.

    Hokey smokes! Let’s do some calculations. If that takes Rossi one year, he would have to produce two eCats every minute! This isn’t something you do in your basement workshop. He must have a ginormous plant somewhere. No wonder he says that he’s very busy. Funny that we haven’t seen any evidence of the plant. Just like we haven’t seen any evidence for just about anything that Rossi says.

    • Tony Reply

      January 6, 2012 at 11:25 pm

      Coincidentally, this is also the number of comments that you will post in 2012 on various sites. Fortunately, you have yet to discover the darknet otherwise we could quadruple that…

      • Thicket Reply

        January 7, 2012 at 1:55 pm

        Tony

        Awwww… did I piddle on your dreams again? Suck it up. (:->)

        • Tony Reply

          January 7, 2012 at 2:45 pm

          “Piddle on my dreams”? So, you have discovered the darknet after all…

    • daniel maris Reply

      January 7, 2012 at 1:12 am

      Well, manufacture in the modern age is a lot easier than say 50 years ago. I think if you gave me a proper design for metal casings and so on, I could get those manufactured in China within 2-3 months.

      I doubt Rossi will make a million e cats in 2012 but by the end of 2012 he may have the infrastructure in place for million per annum production.

      First of all let’s see if we can hear what is happening in terms of certification.

  22. H. Visscher Reply

    January 7, 2012 at 4:02 am

    I’m beginning to get tired in running after all these carrots Rossi shows before our eyes…

  23. georgehants Reply

    January 7, 2012 at 9:25 am

    Well the Financial Times gives a very fair review to a book giving many of the facts as to why Cold Fusion And Rossi have to suffer such a battle to be excepted.
    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/8ec688c6-3610-11e1-9f98-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1ilLOrugJ

  24. georgehants Reply

    January 8, 2012 at 11:18 am

    A little hard to follow Thicket’s intellectual outburst but I will try.
    It is a lovely day in the UK. and it looks like we all have a long wait for Rossi, but I am sure there will be updates, meanwhile perhaps Defkalion will fill the void.
    Andrea Rossi
    January 8th, 2012 at 5:28 AM

    Dear Guido Chiostri:
    We will do the presentation as soon as the certifications will be completed. Perhaps September.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  25. Renzo Reply

    January 8, 2012 at 1:39 pm

    To readers who have the hobby of astrology I can say that Rossi was born in Milan on june 3, 1950 at 8:50am

  26. JNewman Reply

    January 8, 2012 at 5:39 pm

    One should take note that certification (which in this case must at least refer to CE certification and presumably also UL certification) is not something done in secret by mysterious entities or cronies. E-cats or Hyperions will have to be delivered to appropriate test organizations.

    CE – “Products considered to have a greater risk have to be independently certified by a notified body. This is an organization that has been nominated by a Member Government and has been notified by the European Commission. These notified bodies act as test labs and carry out the steps as listed in the directives mentioned above and then decided whether the product has passed. A manufacturer can choose its own notified body in any member state of the European Union but should be independent of the manufacturer and a private sector organization or a government agency.”

    UL – “To establish certification, samples of a product submitted by manufacturers for certification are tested and evaluated. Testing and evaluation of samples of products submitted for certification can be performed in UL’s laboratories or in laboratories qualified by UL assessment and ongoing monitoring. Only UL reviews the results of all testing and evaluation and decides if the product is eligible for certification.”

    So if these products are to be certified, this should be a visible event both in Europe and the US. Claims of certification in progress should be verified.

    • Dale G. Basgall Reply

      January 8, 2012 at 6:43 pm

      To JNewman; good post, very clear and correct.

    • Peter Roe Reply

      January 8, 2012 at 8:46 pm

      JNewman, any idea where to look for public access online applications databases please?

      • JNewman Reply

        January 8, 2012 at 8:57 pm

        Sorry, I don’t. For those who follow things Apple, there are always online leaked photos of bits of new iPhones, iPads and the like that are undergoing certification testing. If there are really e-cats and Hyperions that have been sent to test labs, somebody should be able to ferret that out. Maybe some of the more enterprising journalists on these websites can give it a whirl.

    • DvH Reply

      January 9, 2012 at 5:10 pm

      IIRC, there is some RF-stuff inside the eCat to ‘motivate’ the fusion-process. Isnt it necessary to have a FCC number for devices which emit electromagentic waves? AFAIK, there is a public database for that: when u have a chinese no-name notebook, you can find out the real manufacturer / assembler by looking up the FCC-number.

  27. arian Reply

    January 8, 2012 at 6:13 pm

    very funny :)

    Defkalion GT

    Job position offer- LENR pathological sceptics only

    Even though radioactivity emissions from Hyperions is far below WHO limits, someone from our R&D team brought into our attention an idea “threw” in other Internet forums: use of canaries birds as a biological detector to study any biological effects on these tinny creatures. In order to run this “project” a special job position, to take care of our canaries, is offered .

    The perfect candidate for our canaries care position should have the following minimum characteristics:

    1. Been a proved sceptic in LENR (with no doubt). The maximum posts/day/site against LENR is required in applications in order to validate such characteristic of the candidate.(Criteria code SC). This is mandatory requirement as far as we do not offer any special insurance coverage for radioactivity hazardous in our job positions due to an emergency cost cut-off program (we have to phase “killing competition”!)

    2. Have a lot of free time to spare (number of general posting/day in the Internet is also required in application). (Criteria code: FT)

    3. Been anonymous (please refer to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoDPV5O7Dds to see why) -Caution:Our birds can leed to self destruction! Criteria code: a-cat

    4. Basic knowledge in nuclear physics, chemistry and bird avionics (high school level). Please refer to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFa5JA9Fau8 to see why. Criteria code: PH

    We offer:

    1. Basic Greek salary hair cut as per recent IMF instructions,full medical coverage, 4 meals/day and a bed/bath within one of our labs.
    2. Free unlimited access to the Internet.
    3. Nice view of the Hyperion’s experiments in our test-labs. No NDA is required as far as we and our products do not exist for a real sceptic candidate.

    Please send your application in this topic (job-position link in our site is sometimes out of order)
    DGT

    • Dale G. Basgall Reply

      January 8, 2012 at 6:37 pm

      arian are you serious? is this for real? This will be a movie one day.

      Wow great advertisement and is this believable? Someone in DGT must have read the Saturday Night Live post. Like Rossi said they took the bait and thought I actually had a home LENR device.

      Do you think their softening because of lack of evidence or do they have a home model perfected?

    • DvH Reply

      January 9, 2012 at 5:13 pm

      is the bath with warm water? or only cold??

  28. arian Reply

    January 8, 2012 at 6:55 pm

    They are teasing maryyugo :)

  29. Don Witcher Reply

    January 9, 2012 at 12:07 am

    In the US I would assume that certification for the home E-cat means that it would be certified by the Air-Conditioning,Heating, and Refrigeration Institute (AHRI). The link to their website certification info is
    http://www.ahrinet.org/ahri+certification+programs.aspx
    By receiving an AHRI “mark” the equipment is then recognized by DOE and other government and state agencies as meeting industry product standards and depending on the specs as possibly being eligible for ENERGY STAR standards and eligible for governmental incentive programs that might be in place.

    The website has interesting info and I sent a query to Rossi asking if by certification he meant obtaining AHRI certification and a AHRI certified Mark but my query apparently wasn’t acceptable for his spam filter.

    • Peter Roe Reply

      January 9, 2012 at 8:39 am

      “my query apparently wasn’t acceptable for his spam filter”.

      That makes me rather uncomfortable.

  30. Mary 'Thunder Thighs' Yugo Reply

    January 9, 2012 at 5:01 am

    Gibby at it again.
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/markgibbs/2012/01/08/the-e-cat-real-or-surreal/
    Seems in a bit of a fright the majority is in the ‘yes’ e-category in his poll of Forbes readers.

    Now how did ye olde mummy mary (moletrap.co.uk) miss the comment section on this one? Her corporate masters will now exile her to a awinefarm in the west country!

  31. Dale G. Basgall Reply

    January 9, 2012 at 7:28 am

    Regarding the certifications, I believe it ends up dependent on intended areas LENR is to be released in, the scope that is. For example; a product going out to the medical community falls under hospital guidelines, which require UL and CSA certification if any field effect transistors are used in the electrical/electronic circuitry.

    So if this technology applies to the general public it will take certain certifications that validate what the manufacturer is contending is true. If in addition it is to be used in schools or medical applications then additional certifications are needed.

    The food and drug administration in the US Kansas City office FDA did not reply to my e-mail regarding what concerns they felt would be regulated on these LENR devices to come.

    In jist it will come down to an intended market. I do know however that rules and laws are seriously overlooked when manufactured in deprived areas. FDA regulates on effected area of manufacture, so if your in bf egipt manufacturing a device needed by many and the local employees are from a financially deprived area then rules bend like rubber bands, pathetic at best. Let me restate this a little, the fines amounts become dependent upon area of manufacture of a device.

    I don’t think CSA or UL have anything else as responsibility, just to certify correctness and the FDA set’s some of the boundries. Maybe on LENR devices going to the market will be certified easier if the need to many people is evident.

  32. Ivan Mohorovicic Reply

    January 9, 2012 at 9:54 am

    By the way, lately Francesco Celani has written a series of emails to 22passi blog explaining what he will talk about during WSEC 2012 at Geneva in the next few days and answering related questions that people made on that blog. This was the important bit of the full abstract available there:

    In these weeks our group, working with long and thin wires having the surface coated with micro-nano-particles, get re-confirmation of a phenomenon, by us, seldom observed in some previous experiments: the specific alloy used (Cu-Ni), that usually has Positive Temperature Coefficient (PTC) of the resistance, if absorbs large amount of Hydrogen, changes to Negative TC. Such phenomenon is correlated to anomalous heat production and increases as the anomalous heat increases. If such key phenomenon will be kept under full control, because its behaviour can be observed with simple instrumentation, it can be open the door to systematic work, worldwide, to find the “optimal” material and operating point.

    1: Original post about the World Sustainable Energy Conference 2012 (partially in English)

    2: Post containing an important excerpt from Celani’s abstract to his talk (partially in English)

    3: Post regarding the WSEC conference (downloadable press conference in English)

    4: Celani answers some questions and clarifies a few things (I) (in Italian)

    5: Celani answers some questions and clarifies a few things (II) (in Italian)

    There’s also been a short discussion about this on Vortex-l mailing list.

  33. georgehants Reply

    January 9, 2012 at 10:17 am

    From Facebook

    Giuliano Bettini
    Sunday, January 8, 2012
    One more email from Francesco Celani
    http://22passi.blogspot.com/2012/01/ancora-una-email-da-francesco-celani.html

  34. Ivan Mohorovicic Reply

    January 9, 2012 at 11:19 am

    New information about Piantelli will be disclosed during the WSEC 2012 Conference in Geneva, starting tomorrow:

    http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l%40eskimo.com/msg60762.html

  35. spacegoat Reply

    January 10, 2012 at 9:37 am

    Looking at the Specification Sheet from Hyperion I am amazed at how they have taken a basic principle and added so much electronic surveillance and self-destruction crap that it probably costs 10 times more make than it otherwise would. Speaking of wood, I think most of us will continue to burn it in the Third world.

    Their product is so far away from “New Fire” as you can get. Fire is cheap and has immediate utility. It is controlled by the possessor.

    With a Hyperion (an probably an Ecat) the owner has to sign away their privacy and probably their health. I am referring to the GSM monitoring devices.
    On the subject of GSM health I refer you to http://www.magdahavas.com and here “http://www.optimumhealthtips.net/health/wifi-update-council-of-europe-seeks-wifi-ban-in-schools/
    “Council of Europe Seeks WiFi Ban in Schools”

    The possessor cannot even change the gas bottle without expensive intervention by a “qualified” rip-off artist boiler man.

    These people have taken public domain science and engineered a lock-down by governments of any future societal change.

    Instead of going down in history as liberators of the human spirit they will go down as greedy maintainers of the status quo.

    Let’s hope this science gets engineered somewhere in the Thirld world, the place where energy is most needed for development. We will not be buying Hyperions or ecats.

  36. Neil Taylor Reply

    January 11, 2012 at 12:48 am

    Yes, if the Hyperion is indeed real I see no way for them to compete economically with the announced E-Cat pricing, not with all this frivolous stuff attached to the HYPERION. Perhaps if they were to include electrical generation with there units, then they would have an immediate marketing edge, frivolous stuff and all…

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