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eCat Innovation

December 29, 2011

An article in the What-If? Series. The following suspends any disbelief.

Let us assume that very soon we will be on our way to a pollution-free, inexhaustible and inexpensive, cold fusion future. It sets the mind spinning.

What if?

We often talk about the possible financial, geopolitical, environmental and social implications, but what about enterprise and invention? Most agree that, while there will be blood on the carpet and many losers, there is also a good chance that we’ll get an adrenalin shot to the heart of the world economy. Remember the overblown dotcom bubble? One of the main drivers of that situation was confusion. While hundreds of thousands of early adopters knew what it was all about, they were swamped by the horde who suddenly feared that they would miss the gold. Thousands of high net-worth individuals were desperate to board the elevator but had no idea where they were going.

Wind forward. You are part of a miniscule set; aware and mentally preparing yourselves for the coming change. This time, many of the benefits are obvious: We love to dream of clean water for everyone and the end of wars for oil. I love that dream too and will talk about it again in a future article. For now, I wonder about immediate inventive solutions. Whenever a major change happens, a wave of innovation follows. Cars led to cat’s eyes. Electricity led to tens of thousands of products. Books led to libraries.

So, keeping things practical, what do you think might follow? Be aware: if you have a billion dollar idea and post it here, the public will own it and no one – including you – can patent it.

As an example: I would like to see a tiny eCat. At the moment, we imagine a hefty boiler heating some circulating fluid. This makes sense to get things moving. Functionally similar to existing boilers, it is easy to marry to current infrastructure. Remove a conventional boiler from the design, substitute an eCat, connect it to the installed pipes and we’re good to go.

If, instead, we had a small sugar-cube (sized) heater that could talk to others of its kind, you could distribute them round the room or under the floorboards. They could clip together to replace a traditional  radiator, fine control  effected by turning units on and off through the inbuilt switch with simple remote intelligence. [Note that this would only work if the reaction was so understood that stamping out the device by the billion would lead to stable and predictable results.]

In this way, we get rid of the extra expense of the plumbing. A hot water unit could be made from the same cubes. At first, this would appear to be more expensive but it could easily be far cheaper than the current approach, turning the heat source into a universal commodity churned out by the billion. Small units would snap together to make medium power devices, medium units join to create beefy ones.

I can see lots of problems with this imagined approach but believe the benefits of mega-mass-market production might make it worth someone’s candle to try solving them.

You might argue that clumping these things together will lead to poor thermal response and I would agree. Perhaps those needing that quality could slot into a lattice piping water between and around each one. We get the commodity benefits with versatility.

Then there is control. How is it powered? What about recharging? Could future developments lead to tiny devices that last for years? If yes and each cube only costs a few dollars you simply swap them out as needed like ultra-lasting thermal batteries.

The biggest issue may be radiation and other aspects of safety. Reducing the surface/volume ratio would mean that each tiny device had to support relatively more shielding. DGT seems to get round that problem but it would require investigation.

Please feel free to rip this apart. I am not married to it but wanted to start the conversation. What is your idea? Rent an eCat – installed free for a monthly fee smaller than the current fuel bill? Tiny modules that can warm feet or something to roll out following a disaster? No matter what, where do you see the problems and what are the potential solutions?

Let’s have some fun with this.

Posted by on December 29, 2011. Filed under products,Uncategorized. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

104 Responses to eCat Innovation

  1. Martin

    December 29, 2011 at 4:58 pm

    A tiny e-cat in the sump of my car that keeps the engine warm and ready to go in the depths of winter, another in the car that keeps the interior warm.

    An mini e-cat stove for use in a Teepee type tent for winter camping

    • quax

      December 29, 2011 at 5:07 pm

      Are you seriously suggesting that we’ll keep driving combustion powered vehicles if the ecat turns out to be real?

      • Martin

        December 29, 2011 at 6:40 pm

        As far as I know there is no e-cat engine or motor on offer yet, and if one becomes available how long do you think it will be before there’s one in your car.

        • ostap

          December 29, 2011 at 9:22 pm

          Cars powered by LERN is interesting stuff I think. What would it look like? Heat powered engine might be much bigger than combustion one. And if energy is cheap could we see the renaissance of big muscle cars with long fronts?

        • quax

          December 30, 2011 at 1:00 am

          Electric cars are already available – hydrogen fuel cell technology is fully ready for the market.

          If the ecat is real and electricity and hydrogen become dirt cheap then my next car will most certainly not have a combustion engine.

          • ostap

            December 30, 2011 at 12:07 pm

            Isn’t it dirt cheap comparing to gasoline right now? I think the hydrogen fuel cells technology is dirt expensive right now. Also dirt complicated. Also dirt unsafe with its 500 bar tanks. The best car that type is Merc F125 prototype and serial one planed for 2025 year being an S-class model. So add some 5 years for normal car to appear. I better throw some nickel brick into my car and ride for months.

        • Scott

          December 30, 2011 at 4:21 pm

          Here’s the ecat engine – ready to go.

          • norm

            January 4, 2012 at 7:46 pm

            There is mention of the Cyclone engine, but thats a fuel burning engine. What you want is the waste heat engine from (the same company). It operates at 500F to 700F and would be perfect. They’re planning on a 100hp model. Perfect for a steam car.

            The 16hp to 25hp models would also be perfect hooked up to the eCat for generating electricity at your house. The “leftover” heat could provide your hot water. There may be enough electricity to provide heating.

      • Michael

        December 29, 2011 at 7:15 pm

        Yeah.. we’ll be stuck with about 1 billion fossil burners for a few years..but I just had a thought.. we will be able to make hydrogen – dirt cheap – use that instead..conversion kits are bound to appear.. I’ll be using ethanol as that will become cheap too.. made of garden refuse!

        • Pekka Janhunen

          December 29, 2011 at 8:11 pm

          Agreed, although I would suggest liquid ammonia (NH3) instead of hydrogen because it’s easier to store. Ammonia can be made from hydrogen and air rather easily (Haber-Bosch) and it’s already now handled and transported in massive amounts. When burned, ammonia’s energy content is about half of diesel fuel: not splendid, but reasonable.

          • LCD

            December 29, 2011 at 8:58 pm

            Innovation in hydrogen storage and fuel cells will improve for cars. Fossil fuel combustion will be a thing of the past.

          • quax

            December 30, 2011 at 1:03 am

            If energy is cheap you can easily have hydrogen produced in your own garage from distilled water.

          • LENR4you

            December 30, 2011 at 4:13 pm

            For small units in the power range below 20kWel or 50kWth
            this technique “Rossi closed Ni-H Reactor” cooled with a cooling medium at 200-400 °C, then heat exchanger generating steam with min. 20 bar, then steam turbine or engine, condenser a lot of pumps, etc. are not practicable.
            For these low power ranges is this the right way:
            Convert LENR Energy (Ni-H Reactor) inside a Stirling Engine, where the working gas and the reaction gas are the same: hydrogen.
            The advantage of using H2 as working gas == cooling medium is that the cooling power density is very high. The H2 flows trough the hot Ni Powder and cool it very effectiv. Result is that the temperature of the Ni powder can be much higher than in the cloosed Rossi Ni-H reactor.
            More advantages are:
            There is a periodic pressure fluctuation to trigger the reaction.
            Powerregulation over the mean pressure of the hydogen gas inside the stirling engine.
            No water or thermo oil is used to convert the thermal energy to mecanical energy.
            Cooling power density is very high.
            Fits for power ranges under 20kWel for use in households and cars.
            The Ni powder must be fixed inside the Stirling engine with a membrane or by sintering.
            Warm Regard

  2. Kim

    December 29, 2011 at 5:11 pm

    LENR is a real

    Please stop denial, its proven.

    2 possibilities now exist

    It will become part of our lives in
    all its glory… or

    They have plans to distract us with WW3


    • Pekka Janhunen

      December 29, 2011 at 5:17 pm

      There is no them. They are us. Vacuum is a better approximation to government than a conspiracy.

      • Peter Roe

        December 30, 2011 at 9:39 am

        Pekka, that may be the case in Finland, but it isn’t in the US, or in any other country that lives in the shadow of the US, such as here in the UK.

        That is why no single mention of CF has been made in any US or UK mainstream news medium, it’s why we hear virtually nothing about the real consequences of the Fukushima disaster while at the same time huge secret taxpayer subsidies are fed to the nuclear industry to build more of their deadly machines for future generations to deal with.

        It is also why we are taxed dry in the name of being ‘green’ while the bankers and other parasites get unbelievably rich on the back of taxpayer money, trading the utterly futile ‘carbon credits’ introduced by their pocketed politicians.

        The degree of quiet corruption in government is quite staggering and infects all areas of life where ‘big pharma’, ‘big oil’, the nuclear industry and any other players with money to burn can buy all the ‘influence’ they need to achieve their ends, while the interests of the people are just pushed aside.

        • Pekka Janhunen

          December 30, 2011 at 11:13 am

          I don’t know. Anyway here is one true story. I wrote about the Rossi reactor in my Electric Sail column inside the Finnish Space Research Society magazine in August. This magazine is small, it has 200 distribution among space and technology minded people. Anyway, I got one interview request on Rossi based on that, from “Technology & Industry” magazine which is mainstream, from a journalist who had earlier interviewed me on the E-sail and solar power satellites. I answered the questions, then there was silence. After 3 weeks I asked about it, I asked if they perhaps got too varying opinions and therefore didn’t publish. The answer was that she indeed had gotten different opinions, but that that wasn’t the reason why the article wasn’t made. The reason was that she had forgotten to finish it because of other work. This happened in November. After that I haven’t heard anything.

          In my opinion, a big factor is that the thing is simply too big for 95-99% people to grasp. They don’t actively resist it, but they simply turn away as if it didn’t exist. Another big factor is the non-professional look of the JONP, the fact that one has to dig the messages from several places. JONP kind of yells: this is not ready, don’t come here yet. I hope it’s intentional from Rossi.

          • Peter Roe

            December 30, 2011 at 11:58 am

            There is some truth in what you say Pekka, but I stand by my earlier comments about political corruption (the EU is probably the best proof of that just now).

            I must admit that I have tried to explain what is happening to some people I regard(ed) as intelligent, even one or two with scientific backgrounds, only to watch them glaze over then try to change the subject. This is not complicated stuff, so it can’t be that. It’s as if they sensed a ‘threat’ to their belief systems, and just couldn’t handle that.

            I have tried but failed to think myself into a mindset that simply rejects and ignores evidence that induces discomfort because it doesn’t fit into a fixed world-view, but failed completely. I literally can’t understand such a reaction, but it does seem to be the rule rather than the exception.

            Apparently only relatively few individuals have any real capacity to think ‘outside the box’ – many seem to have been completely conditioned to behave and react almost completely automatically, and will not play any part in any changes in our society flowing from the e-cat or any other ‘black swan’ breakthrough.

            However I think that those at the very top – the heads of banks, energy cartels and so on, will be briefed by people who are fully aware of the possibilities and will proceed to pull political strings accordingly. We’ve already seen their first moves, and more will follow soon.

  3. Dave Tyson

    December 29, 2011 at 5:16 pm

    Excellent article. This is precisely the discussion that needs to take place. 99% of humanity can clearly see this technology would be beneficial. Unfortunately some within the entrenched establishments of world power will think differently. Most people don’t understand the direct link between the value of the U.S. dollar and oil. With the OPEC agreements, (currently disintegrating), a rapid decline in the value of oil would result in a rapid decline in the demand for dollars. This could have a devastating effects on the global economy which has already over leveraged real assets by at least 30:1. I believe this coupling of currencies to oil reserves is being dismantled. At the same time the entrenched interests playing the game are using all manner of deception to maintain their grip on power. This being the ability to create valued or desired money from nothing. This is the root of power. These technologies would end that potential and are not new. Anyone who studies these reactions knows they have been reproduce many times. Admittedly not in a sustainable way. Even so as a society shouldn’t this be our focus? Where are the research dollars and the mainstream media attention? The ONLY thing that is going to bring this technology out is awareness. We can all agree if this ecat system works as advertised it will be an incredibly liberating technology. Why then can’t our mainstream media determine if this works or not? Is this not their job? Should they not get to the bottom of this? With all the resources at their disposal all they can do is say it defies the laws of physics which are at best incomplete to begin with. In conclusion the tide is turning. The geopolitics landscape is shifting rapidly. All I want is for people to understand there are very powerful interests who think it better they maintain control of your freedoms. Understanding this will end their time in power.

  4. Neil Taylor

    December 29, 2011 at 5:21 pm

    LENR devices of all sorts will eventually replace most if not all devices and circumstances where fossil fuels are now required. That said, just look around and see/imagine where and what impact’s this will have on the way our world presently works.

    As you said there will be a lot of “blood on the carpet” initially, but society as a whole will benefit after a period of economic change and re-stabilization.

    The opportunities are soon coming and many will capitalize on this discovery. I believe the impact will be very similar to what happened during the industrial revolution, only take place much much faster.

    Bring it on…

  5. daniel maris

    December 29, 2011 at 5:27 pm

    To be used in emergency famine situations or post earthquake.

    They would be used with Big Dog:

    They would carry in emergency supplies over difficult terrain. They would operate in teams with some drawing moisture from the air or collecting from local water sources,in order to replenish the steam boilers (which would use condensers). Alternatively I guess they could operate on stirling engine priniciples.

    They would beam back real time video to base,and would carry searchlights for night travel.

  6. arian

    December 29, 2011 at 5:31 pm

    Extraordinary Evidence of nuclear reaction in cold fusion experiment.

    Scientists at the U.S. Navy’s San Diego SPAWAR Systems Center have produced something unique in the 17-year history of the scientific drama
    historically known as cold fusion: simple, portable, highly repeatable,unambiguous, and permanent physical evidence of nuclear events using detectors that have a long track record of reliability and acceptance among nuclear physicists.

    • Peter Roe

      December 29, 2011 at 6:54 pm

      Completely incontrovertible proof of room temperature nuclear reactions – 5 years ago! It just beggars belief that establishment physicists and research directors can ignore evidence like this.

      Co-deposition (nickel plus hydrogen?) could make mass producing tiny CF thermal batteries a piece of cake: some efficient means of converting heat energy to electricity is desperately needed. It seems they would need shielding though.

  7. Josh

    December 29, 2011 at 5:32 pm

    I’m interested in the financial impacts of essentially free energy. In theory it would be hugely deflationary as energy costs decrease – both direct like heat and transportation, but also indirect such as the energy costs embedded in the cost of every product and service.

    Massive deflation would mean massive defaults as less money cirulated. At the same time, there would be many new opportunities to experience: increased travel/tourism, potentially more free time as the cost to live decreased, previously unfeasible services would now make financial sense… very interesting to dream!

    But I wait to really dream, because I’m not convinced Rossi has what he claims. As he requested, I’ll judge him by his product – or lack thereof.

    • John

      December 30, 2011 at 11:01 am

      Josh, what you say really gets to the heart of this, though you didn’t know it, lol, no offence intended.
      The powers that be are fighting hard against this for exactly the economic reasons you mention. It’s just incompatable with the current economy/power system. (and therefor them being king of the castle)

      The sad thing is the crazy logic of your last sentence. Thinking like that makes it POSSIBLE for the (quite evil) people trying to suppress LENR to stop people realizing how important it is.
      You remind me of some guy that after seeing the Amazing Talking Dog complains that it used bad grammar.

      The thing is LENR is REAL – that is indisputable – and it makes a civilised future Possible. Of course the problems can be solved – the fine details of the performance of the first product are not the issue – the important thing is that THEY WILL try to stop it. How can we help it to live with the “establishment” willing to totally ignore or smear something so important.

      Persionally I see it as perfect energy source for the new lifestyle/culture/economy we need to creat for our future on this planet – after the nasty economy has crashed and burned.g

  8. charles

    December 29, 2011 at 5:38 pm

    Where do you start? A change of mind, and Bingo! Free energy. We’ve known that energy can be extracted from some mysterious place called “the void” since JP Morgan bought out and shelved Tesla.
    There’s been a variety of ways to do this, magnetic systems, hydraulic systems, solid state electrical systems, quick catalytic reactions that split water and the recombining provides more net energy gain, by a long shot. Japan put together a water powered car. The point I am making is that many different types of free energy devices can be used for a variety of purposes and situations. Once the Popular Paradigm in Place is broached, (“Law” of thermodynamics, for example), the genie is let out of the bottle, Pandora’s Box has been opened, and all possibility is available. In this particular instance of LENR, or Cold Fusion, Rossi and the E-Cat and it’s ancillary developments that are the Key that has opened the Box to our Suppositions (the “Law”) and shown them to be ideas attempting to define reality, rather than functioning cornerstones of reality that cannot ever be altered.
    So, now that the probverbial cat is out of the bag, what’s next? Well, the sky, literally, and more. What with an end to war, desalinization and water purification, the ability to turn deserts into farmlands, to farm indoors if need be, will transform the Earth. Transformation, unprecedented transformation is next. This is the Next Step in the Evolution of the Earth and the Human. This is what is thought to happen to a planet of beings with the capacity for intelligence when it matures. This, my friends, is Paradise Coming, and soon, Paradise. All the vast lands that lie empty across the globe are now the home of anyone who wishes to be in solitude, and in nature. Imagine a Flying House, that provides all the basics, deliciously and spaciously appointed, and designed to your aesthetic tastes. Imagine this house landing in some picturesque desert location, where Solitude might refresh the human soul. Or a voyage to a distant land, or a mountantop to watch the sunset. Or spending a few days or a week near the North Pole, to view the next Aurora Borealis, and photograph it. Imagine doing whatever it is you wish to do with your life. This is what shall come to us. There are tough times ahead, those in “power” will be loathe to give it up, some families think it is their birthright to use endless populations of starving for their maids, cooks, slaves, sexual and otherwise, soldiers, armies etc etc, all can be had for handfuls of rice when people starve. Poverty is deliberate. This is one of the imbalances that will have to be corrected in the Human soul, for there are those who would sunder the earth, have a world war, so they may remain Elite. What is hard is picturing the nature of the struggle that must pass before the inevitable Freeing of the World happens. Let us hope and plan with love, that the least among us, the deluded warmakers, and power control issue insanities are seen for what they are, serious dysfunctions in sustainability of compassionate civilization. Let us try to ease the trauma of those entrenched in old ways as the shock of unforseen transformation pulls the rug out from under them. Like Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do”. For each of us, we must move towards the compassion and interconnectedness that will allow Paradise to flourish in the face of transformational fear. Prepare Thyself, for Change for the Better is Coming. Thanks for letting me share my thoughts.

    • John

      December 30, 2011 at 11:06 am

      Thank You Charles.

  9. Peter Roe

    December 29, 2011 at 5:51 pm

    In the spirit of Paul’s lead:

    How about many of the world’s food problems solved by huge floating greenhouses on many calmer coastal waters or large lakes. These could comprise hundreds of large self contained barges moored to one another and anchored to the sea floor, each with an easily repairable metal-framed, plastic glazed geodesic greenhouse, or just an inflatable plastic-film dome.

    Each CF powered barge would use limitless fusion power to desalinate water, extract CO2 from the sea and provide artificial lighting 24/7. Algae could be grown in tanks to extract minerals required for plant growth, which in turn would be supplied to hydroponically grown crops, both algae and crop plant growth being augmented by the addition of CO2.

    Output from the floating islands (via submerged or floating pipes and conveyors) would be clean water, food crops of virtually any kind, and biomass for any purpose including plastics and liquid fuel production (if still needed) and for further mineral extraction.

    • charles

      December 29, 2011 at 6:00 pm

      what a beautiful idea.

    • admin

      December 29, 2011 at 6:01 pm

      Cool idea, Peter.


    • Ben

      December 29, 2011 at 6:17 pm

      That’s a Nobel idea Peter.

    • HanzJager

      December 29, 2011 at 6:30 pm

      Great thoughts Peter! I have been thinking about what this would mean for indoor agriculture. Being from Wisconsin I know there would be a huge interest in large indoor greenhouses for fresh produce during the cold months! Time to get some plans together just in case this turns out to be legit. 😉

    • Pachu

      December 29, 2011 at 7:00 pm

      Thats the spirit, excellent.

    • Charles Stewart Jr

      December 29, 2011 at 9:39 pm

      The ultimate in transportation will be an electricity generating ecat that can directly drive electric motors in our cars or alternately, if necessary, an electricity generating ecat storing energy in an EESU which in-turn drives the electric motors. How you doing with that EESU EESTOR?

  10. Paul42

    December 29, 2011 at 6:13 pm

    One LENR reactor running the air conditioner for your house. Another one inside your clothes dryer. Another one in an electric plant with the waste heat going into the water heater. Another one in your furnace.

    Micro units in your cell phone, lap top, tablet generating all the energy they need for the life of the product.

    Energy intensive products like aluminum & steel will drop radically in price. Wood will drop very little and will become a relatively expensive building material.

    The infrastructure changes required to support all of this are bigger than you can imagine. The job market for engineers & scientists will be tremendous.

  11. Mahron

    December 29, 2011 at 7:05 pm

    Hard to imagine what will happen, so many things will be possible with such cheap unlimited energy.

    I just hope someone finds a way to use the fusion process to power rockets. The moon would become next door and a mission to mars would not be a quasi suicide mission.

    • Mahron

      December 29, 2011 at 7:12 pm

      and miniaturized also, that would be pretty cool.

    • Paul42

      December 29, 2011 at 8:03 pm

      Take a look at the PDF files that have been released by NASA. They seem to think that this the ideal answer for trips to Mars, etc…

  12. Frank

    December 29, 2011 at 7:24 pm

    Deleted by Admin

    Sorry, Frank but this is not the post to remind us about lack of evidence. It suggests suspending disbelief. If you can do that, please join in.


  13. Pekka Janhunen

    December 29, 2011 at 7:35 pm

    For motors and generators, CF faces similar problems of miniaturisation as other heat engines like RC model plane motors (plus the radiation shielding issue about which it’s hard to say at the moment). For heaters, although a heat engine is not required, the core temperature must still be properly controlled to avoid runaway, so they probably cannot very extremely small either if the cooling is based on fluid circulation.

    However, if efficient enough thermoelectric chips can be invented, perhaps a fully solid state heating plus electric power device might be possible. Perhaps one could control the core temperature well enough by somehow modifying the properties of the surrounding thermoelectric elements so that no liquids or moving parts would be involved. Such a device might be possible to make rather small, like a battery. If 3 mm radiation shielding is enough as claimed in Hyperion specs, the radiation shielding mass of a tiny reactor core would be a few tens of grams only.

    A biomimetic concept for miniaturisation might be air cooling like the air tubes that insects are using, combined with thermoelectric chips for getting some electric output. Then one likely needs some moving parts in modifying the shapes of the tubes.

  14. Mary 'Thunder Thighs' Yujo

    December 29, 2011 at 8:22 pm

    I think that Dr. Bushnell has also addressed the idea that CF/LENR power could essentially mean unlimited scale desalination. Reversing desertification in sub-saharan africa. The aquaducts we build could defeat evaporation via volume and brute force with the secondary positive effect of leading to RAIN. This could be especially transformative for Israel’s dead sea valley, potentially restore that inland sea which is dwindling away, which is quite sad.

  15. Harry Perini

    December 29, 2011 at 8:42 pm

    I am one of the ten thousand who ordered a home LENR from Rossi. I hope to get the version that generates electricity. I will mount it in my electric automobile.

  16. georgehants

    December 29, 2011 at 8:43 pm

    As many scientists think we are heading for the next ice-age E-CAT’s could be used to pump carbon- dioxide and CFCs into the atmosphere to increase global warming.

    • Peter Roe

      December 29, 2011 at 9:21 pm

      Isn’t it astonishing that although the research looks at entirely natural prehistoric climate cycles that Prof. Tzedakis is still induced to say that “some scientists argue that it’s possible the changes we are making by pumping CO2 into the atmosphere could ultimately help usher in the next ice age.”

      It seems the the Al Gore/IPCC/BBC/UEA (climategate) agenda is still firmly in place, but shifting its ‘predictions’ rather rapidly. As most actual evidence (as opposed to rigged computer climate models) now points to a cooling phase starting c. 1998, rather than a continued warming phase, we are now supposedly causing an ice age with our profligate ways, rather than a universal desert (or was it universal floods). I suppose the possibility that things just naturally warm up and cool down over a period is no use to any agenda.

      Heads we win – tails you lose.

      • georgehants

        December 29, 2011 at 9:38 pm

        Peter, re. climate one usually finds that the most basic common sense will always win, keep an open-mind and cover every eventuality.
        Could not agree more with your architecture point, when economics is eventually sorted out and people are not wasting their lives, there will be much time to build quality again like our ancestors.
        The E-CAT may well help with all of these things.

    • Pekka Janhunen

      December 30, 2011 at 9:00 am

      While the warming effect of CO2 is clear, ice ages are still an almost complete mystery. They seem to roughly obey the astronomical rhythms (precession, obliquity and eccentricity periodic variations), but the insolation changes imposed by those variations seem to be far insufficient to explain massive glaciations. Thus, to make things match one needs some strong amplifying mechanisms. To prevent shorter timescale instabilities of the system, those mechanisms should have long response times, comparable to the astronomical forcing timescales. But no one seems to know what those mechanisms might be.

      In any case, ice ages are slow processes so managing them by geoengineering should be possible, with or without CF. For warming, there are some very efficient artificial greenhouse gases known, or space mirrors forged from asteroid materials might also be handy.

      • georgehants

        December 30, 2011 at 9:19 am

        Pekka, don’t forget the mammoth puzzle, where many have been found living in a temperate climate suddenly frozen to death within hours with full stomachs, the area then being arctic still today.

      • Peter Roe

        December 30, 2011 at 10:00 am

        “managing them by geoengineering should be possible, with or without CF”

        The evidence that widespread aerosol spraying at high altitude (‘chemtrails’) is routinely taking place, especially over the US, seems fairly robust.

        It seems possible that these may be experiments in climate control, although as the intent seems to be to increase cloud reflectivity and reduce solar radiation reaching the ground, they may be going in the wrong direction entirely.

        CF would radically increase our power to conduct such projects, but in view of our current knowledge of the interwoven complexities of climate science, any such attempts at geoengineering would be extremely unwise at the present time.

        • georgehants

          December 30, 2011 at 10:07 am

          Peter if climate control why not in the open, Why secretly.

          • Peter Roe

            December 30, 2011 at 11:18 am

            Hello George.

            I for one would object quite strongly to someone assuming the right to tinker with the planet I live on, if I had absolute proof that attempted geoengineering was taking place. I think a few billion other people might as well, especially if such tinkering turned out to be not in the best interests of the common herd. Hence the secrecy I suspect.

  17. Peter Roe

    December 29, 2011 at 8:54 pm

    And on the ‘downside’:- the resurgence of concrete!

    In recent years building construction has been moving away from concrete towards lighter-weight and often ‘renewable’ resources – principally timber framing, natural claddings and insulation. Even business and institutional buildings are avoiding concrete in favour of lightweight cladded-frame-and-glass construction.

    The reason is to a large extent the cost, which in turn is due to the ’embedded energy’ required to make and transport the stuff. But take away the energy cost, including the transportation costs, and you have an extremely cheap and versatile material made from chalk, limestone, clay and whatever cheap or even waste materials you want to bulk it out with. As paul42 pointed out earlier, timber could become a ‘luxury’ material by comparison.

    ‘High tech’ concrete mixes can substitute for corrosion prone steel in many civil engineering projects, but is often avoided because of the relative (to steel, usually) cost. You could even use the stuff to build the barge hulls for my ‘floating farms’ or any other floating installations (there is a 20m x 6m concrete barge built in the ’50s at a nearby maritime museum that proves the principle very well) – or for vast onshore hydroponic farms and algae tanks situated close to the sea, or to a river or lake.

    But (and this the the downside I referred to) perhaps the house building material of the future will be concrete (again). I hope that this time around there will be architects capable of using the material to build something other than the depressing grey monoliths of the ’50s and 60’s.

    • quax

      December 30, 2011 at 1:16 am

      Transport cost is not an issue if you use the “aerogel” of concrete. These supper light weight concrete blocks are a very common building material in Europe (used them myself there before moving to Canada).

      In North America it’s almost impossible to get them. No idea why.

      • Peter Roe

        December 30, 2011 at 9:21 am

        I used them myself in a recent building project. It’s handy being able to cut blocks with an old hand saw! Unfortunately they are only good for internal low-load walls, and no use at all where load bearing is required. They’re not cheap, either.

  18. Todd Burkett

    December 29, 2011 at 8:59 pm

    Coin size reactors, you could start the process by holding them over a Lighter, give out enough heat for cooking in Third World countries, stop the reaction by dropping it into a cup of water. I would envision it would be permanently sealed with the right amount of hydrogen for the amount of nickel. You could probably get a few thousand dinners out of it.
    On a larger scale when we go to Mars, find a lava tube, those can be hundreds of meters in diameter and miles long, use enough reactors to keep the interior at about 65°, and Mount a few to the ceiling generate sun spectrum light , Throw a few in the underground lakes keep the water warm and go fishing.
    How about hot-air balloons that stay aloft permanently?
    How about heat pumped lasers?
    How about tanks, that use rail guns and make their own artillery shells out of dirt, basically never run out of slugs to throw.
    As well as tanks that can submerge in lakes and rivers and the ocean.
    Or an RV that never needs to be fueled generates its own electricity. I guess the list goes on and on!

    • Peter Roe

      December 29, 2011 at 9:28 pm

      Nice one!


    December 29, 2011 at 9:13 pm

    Franks comparison of the E-Cat to spammer e-mails from Nigeria, reeks of desperation. E-Cat data no longer being challenged? Now people are just stupid if they believe in this “too good to be true” effect? Wow, thanks for being the intelligence police Frank.

  20. Camilo

    December 29, 2011 at 9:14 pm

    I am particularly interested in the combination of LENR and MagnetoHydroDynamics MHD for the development of UFO Like aircraft. The thing is that the only missing piece for a fully functional MHD manned hypersonic craft (mach 20 cruise speed) is the energy source capable of generating a high frequency current that can ionize the surrounding air and propel the craft free of sonic booms due to a combination of MHD and Coanda effect lift. This technology is allegedly already developped for military purposes, but we need it in the civilian world. This development would mean cheap and very fast flights to everywhere in the planet for everyone.

    • Pekka Janhunen

      December 30, 2011 at 9:23 am

      To my knowledge it has been and is under development, but mainly only for flow control (at engine intake etc), or for an “MHD bypass” type primary propulsion (Russian AJAX project).

      For the primary propulsion system application, a key challenge would be the rejection of waste heat and getting high enough W/kg from the heat engine converting CF heat to electricity. For reasonable Carnot efficiency the waste heat must be rejected at much lower temperature than the CF core. Having carbon nanotube high-temp ‘superconductor’ cables would also help to generate the strong magnetic field without cryogenics.

  21. fumanchu

    December 29, 2011 at 9:59 pm

    What if the US Dept of ______ researched this “reaction” back in the late 80’s and realized the process could be weaponized and without a lot of tech or imagination? How do you think that would have played itself out in the scientific community? Not saying that this is likely the case, but it would be one hell of a genie to try to get back in its bottle…

  22. Vic

    December 29, 2011 at 11:53 pm

    The simplest Stirling engine of them all, the Fluidyne is a beautiful partner for the e-cat. The combination would provide an extremely efficient water pump, with two check valves and the water as it’s only moving parts. Apart from the obvious agricultural benefits, e-cat powered fluidynes could be retrofitted to existing hydroelectric power stations for electricity generation, where the generators and power transmission infrastructure is already built, ready and waiting.

  23. The Duece

    December 30, 2011 at 12:19 am

    The barges mentioned earlier could be readily and cheaply built of ice.

  24. quax

    December 30, 2011 at 1:23 am

    I like the technology of this start-up better than Sterling engines. No moving parts.

    • Brad Arnold

      December 30, 2011 at 6:01 am

      Thanks for the tip!

    • Peter Roe

      December 30, 2011 at 10:17 am

      If it lives up to the claims this device looks very interesting. It seems that this company and half a dozen other novel engine producers may be making pitches to Rossi through proxies in JoNP! (

  25. Vic

    December 30, 2011 at 1:46 am

    The extreme cold of our planet’s north and south poles seems to me to be an exploitable resource. They could provide the “cold sink” for heat engines, while e-cats provide the heat source. For example, many of our metal smelting industries could be located at the poles to take advantage of their higher temperature gradients.  
    Of course this assumes that mankind manages to conquer the global warming issue first, and that we’re able to control greenhouse gases to such an extent that we can heat the poles with our e-cats without melting them to death. We could in effect, mine Earth’s entropy.  

  26. kwhilborn

    December 30, 2011 at 1:51 am

    Tiny ecat would still require either a lifetime supply or reloading of nickel. The current reactors are as small as a D battery so they do not have to be huge.

    It is okay to go a month or so with no new content on ecats. Making up stories just to get people reading has already been done to death.

    “What if..”
    “What if..”

    I just want proof that it is real and stable. Nothing more.

    • Peter Roe

      December 30, 2011 at 11:23 am

      We literally have a fight for the future coming very soon. Let’s enjoy ourselves while we can.

  27. Brad Arnold

    December 30, 2011 at 5:57 am

    There isn’t a doubt: desalination. The single biggest benefit to LENR is the ability of mankind to rapidly and cheaply step up production of desalinated clean water.

    BTW, one of the most profound implications of LENR is portability, where a person can live anywhere and still have power like they are living on the grid. This will enable mankind to settle anywhere, greatly expanding population and living standards.

  28. georgehants

    December 30, 2011 at 9:34 am

    One of the first scientific reports to correctly publish Newtons wonderful Alchemist contributions equally to others in the title. Also a good article showing Quantum biology creeping into reality.
    Alchemy may be a very important use of the E-CAT technology to remove all radioactive waste.

    “The article on Isaac Newton covers one of the greatest and most influential physicist, mathematician, astronomer, natural philosopher, alchemist, and theologian of all times.”

  29. arian

    December 30, 2011 at 9:48 am


    Documented evidence for thermal energy observation
    in nickel and hydrogen, in 1959.

    This excerpt from Journal of American Chemical
    Society, 81,5032 (1959). Research by R.J.Kokes,
    and P.H. Anderson. They were studying adsorption
    of hydrogen on Raney nickel and observed “strange
    feature of exothermic reaction”. Perhaps if they
    had done an elemental analysis or calorimetry
    analysis they would have found thermal energy
    generation in excess of any possible physical
    chemistry reaction ( that is, a nuclear
    reaction), but no one can fault them, in 1959, for
    not doing an elemental analysis of the nickel
    after the exothermic reactions. What they observed
    predated the Piantelli work by 30 years, and the
    Rossi catalyst by over 50 years.

    Raney nickel can be made from nickel/magnesium
    alloy, with other elements added before leaching
    of the alloy to promote catalytic activity. That
    leaves residue magnesium in the Raney nickel, and
    can contain promoter elements like copper,
    strontium, and so on, depending on the initial
    alloy composition before leaching.

    Here is the procedure for Raney nickel synthesis,
    using aluminum as the leach element. It would need
    to be adapted for use with magnesium to make the
    volume of catalyst required for megawatt reactors.

  30. Pekka Janhunen

    December 30, 2011 at 9:51 am

    This is a bit far out, but perhaps SETI has been looking at wrong place around solar type stars for technological life. If technological life is independent of stars due to fusion, it could exist anywhere where there are some smaller or larger rocks. And since it could, it almost certainly would, if for no other reason but to save itself when the host star turns into a red giant.

    Similarly, we could in principle settle the galaxy by hopping to the nearest solar system (4 light years away), instead of having to travel to the nearest earthlike planet which is probably at least hundreds of light years away. Perhaps the main feasibility question then becomes: what is the minimum size of a closed ecosystem that can support a human population indefinitely. If one learns to live within closed space habitats (made of asteroid materials) in our solar system indefinitely, copying the concept to other solar systems and moving there becomes possible. The only thing is that during the ‘hop’ (which could be relatively ‘slow’) one doesn’t have asteroid resources available so one has to pack enough materials.

  31. georgehants

    December 30, 2011 at 10:02 am

    One of the greatest opportunities of the Cold Fusion saga is for people to realise that the establishment is corrupt, biased and totally incompetent.
    We have the opportunity to never again hide the UFO phenomenon or any other mystery because people are frightened to speak up.
    UFO’s are a proven phenomena that are either Mental (strange in every case of multiple sightings, radar tracks or other confirming evidence) physical or beyond known science.
    In any-case the establishment led brain-washing that most people are taken in by, can now with Rossi’s help be seen for the unscientific crap that it is.
    The World is Quantum not classical.

    • spacegoat

      December 30, 2011 at 3:56 pm

      georgehants said: “The World is Quantum not classical.”

      Perhaps this is not true:

      “Frank Znidarsic observed a velocity within some ** cold fusion ** and gravitomagnetic experiments. He discovered that the quantum condition is the result of a classical impedance match that occurs when the velocity of light within the electronic structure of the atom equals the velocity of sound within its nuclear structure.”

      • georgehants

        December 30, 2011 at 4:21 pm

        spacegoat, behind every classical event at a deeper level lies the Quantum, where you draw the line is up to you, but everything is ultimately Quantum and at a deeper level probably something else.

        • Neil Taylor

          December 30, 2011 at 6:22 pm

          Georgehants, Just pondering this question,

          How fast does a thought travel as in forms of mental telepathy, etc. Does it exceed the speed of light and what does it consist of? Would that fall into the Quantum theory?

          • georgehants

            December 30, 2011 at 6:38 pm

            Neil, thank you, allowing for the fact that I haven’t a clue, taking entanglement into consideration that shows a instantaneous communication implying faster than light or as is expected in many areas that everything is connected, I could only say further research is certainly in order.

            It may well be beyond even the Quantum.

          • Peter Roe

            December 30, 2011 at 7:45 pm

            For what it’s worth, my intuitive feeling is that nothing ‘travels’ between 2 quantum-entangled particles, so c is not compromised. I suspect that all particles (i.e, all mass) are ‘intrusions’ into 3D space from a 4D environment, in the same way that a very fine 3D rod inserted through a hypothetical 2D space would appear to the 2D inhabitants to be a tiny circular object.

            When two particles become entangled they may conjoin to form a ‘loop’ or perhaps a v- or u-shape in 4D space. This single 4D object would then intersect our 3D space at 2 points – the ‘particles’ we observe.

            Imagine instead of a fine rod passing through 2D space at a ‘right angle’ to our three dimensions, a ring or solid ‘v’ formed by joining 2 ‘rods’ instead. For a 2D creature, there would now seem be two circular objects, which might move apart or together, depending on how large the ‘ring’ or ‘vee’ is, how fast it moves in 4D space and how far ‘through’ the 2D universe it has moved, and at what angle (in the 4th dimension). Any force exerted on either ‘intrusion’ (particle) would now affect the 4 dimensional object, and so be instantaneously reflected by the second particle/intrusion.

            I won’t push the analogy any further or it will fall apart, but I’m sure the general idea is clear!

            Just leave the Nobel prize in the porch if I’m not in.

          • Peter Roe

            December 30, 2011 at 7:57 pm

            Correction – losing track of my dimensions!

            3rd para, please read:
            Imagine instead of a fine rod passing through 2D space at a ‘right angle’ to the 2D plane, a ring or solid ‘v’ formed by joining 2 ‘rods’ at one end. For a 2D creature, there would now seem be two circular (spherical, to them) objects, which might move apart or together, depending on how large the ‘ring’ or ‘vee’ is, how fast it moves or rotates in 3D space and in which direction relative to the 2D world. Any force… etc.

          • Neil Taylor

            December 31, 2011 at 1:16 am

            Thanks guys, I understand completely now – uh – It seems (for now anyway) the best explanation seems to be that all things are instantaneously connected? Anyway, good food for thought (pun intended).

            Happy New Year to you all…

        • spacegoat

          December 31, 2011 at 3:12 am

          I agree that energy and matter do appear in some situations to be quantised, however it is extreme to take this simple concept and derive non-sensical multiverse theories and a veritable worship by scientists and the MSM of the God of Random. You know … that God that is invoked whenever scientists cannot explain a subject … such as the creation of Life or the Universe. Both explained by them as random fluctuations.

          Perhaps you have not bothered to look at the Znidarsic stuff, but he basically drags back the physics of the subatomic back to classical common sense Newtonian physics.

          Regarding the velocity of light, John Bell stated in a NewScientist interview, probably in the 80’s, that the Alain Aspect experiments showed the universe is one of three things. 1. completely predetermined with no free will. 2.Completely connected at all points. 3. look up the interview.
          As per a previous poster in this thread, it appears to me that 2 is correct.

  32. georgehants

    December 30, 2011 at 10:13 am

    Paul you have shown how popular and productive a web page can be without naysayers continually giving negative views that we are all well aware of.
    If only all pages where only for positive, forward moving ideas on every subject, then the year of enlightenment will have been achieved.
    Positive, open-minded, unbiased, rationally skeptical thinking is the only way to progress.

  33. georgehants

    December 30, 2011 at 10:55 am

    From e-Cat Site, Peter you are famous.
    Plan X: I Want My Future Back!

    • Peter Roe

      December 30, 2011 at 11:28 am

      Yes, I’ve been poking my nose in on Ben’s site too! Most recently about the fantasist calling himself ‘Chan’ who is spreading his crap about sub-nuclear Ni-H explosives into a number of e-cat sites. I think he is a mole, out to discredit CF by fearmongering and planting misinformation about replication.

  34. John

    December 30, 2011 at 11:13 am

    One area where this tech is particularly applicable is aircraft. This is because a large proportion of the take off weight of an airplane is the fuel. So an eCat plane could carry much more and of course to any distance.

    But me, I dream of a ocean going boat that I only refuel once a year.

  35. georgehants

    December 30, 2011 at 11:42 am

    Peter said,

    “Hello George.
    I for one would object quite strongly to someone assuming the right to tinker with the planet I live on, if I had absolute proof that attempted geoengineering was taking place. I think a few billion other people might as well, especially if such tinkering turned out to be not in the best interests of the common herd. Hence the secrecy I suspect.”

    But Peter we can see that they are not “tinkering” but putting millions of lives at risk with Cold Fusion and how many other things.
    The World now has the Internet, it now just has to see that the maryyugo’s are a reflection of the establishment, not to be feared but put in their place of irrational small-minded naysayers.
    Most people are afraid to stand up and say UFO’s are important, we the people demand honest, unbiased, professional (if that is possible by science)investigation NOW.
    People must stop being led by fear of ridicule when there is nothing less ridiculous than investigating unknown proven phenomenon.

  36. Dale G. Basgall

    December 30, 2011 at 12:08 pm

    There was so many good posts on this article that I had two cups of Starbucks instant reading the posts, it was great, the spirit of the posts.

    Peter the greenhouse and “floating farms” is a winner that no one could deny. The other posts were equally as pleasant to read.

    There is a way to extract electrical energy from the exothermic reaction and as admin started the conversation regarding miniturization where the size is slightly bigger than a regular ice cube and the powder is sealed with a thin layer of material collecting electrons. The hydrogen can be produced internally in a sealed capsule type gismo.

    A program has to be written and the units come with a cd that puts your personal laptop to use as the monitoring and control means for the electrical output. The new laptops today are as good as any National Instrument or Texas Instrument equipment as far as microprocessor control. You would need some simple cmos ttl circuit configuration along with an opto or two.

    It feels good to just exercise the brain with possibilities and feel a common goal.

    Great article admin.

  37. Peter Roe

    December 30, 2011 at 12:34 pm

    George, I don’t really understand what you intend when you say “they are not “tinkering” but putting millions of lives at risk with Cold Fusion”. Do you mean that by suppressing these technologies they are in effect, killing people? If so, then clearly that is the case.

    As for the maryyugos, they seem to be something of a spent force these days. Most people concerned know who and what they are. They were just a hastily arranged first attempt at altering perceptions of Rossi’s work, and something a bit smarter will be used next (‘Chan’ may be an early warning).

    However tactics of that nature are like trying to stop a train by putting twigs on the track. When things get serious (full disclosure by a 1MW customer, price catalogs and demos of domestic CF boilers) I think things will get really dirty, and sites like this one may possibly have problems staying up.

    (Paul, it may be an idea to publish your IP address in the fixed content – it is more difficult to block or interfere with access if people have your IP in addition to a web address. ‘Paranoid Pete’).

    • Peter Roe

      December 30, 2011 at 12:45 pm

      Paul – please ignore that last comment – I’ve just found that Cloudflare does not allow direct IP access.

    • georgehants

      December 30, 2011 at 2:04 pm

      Peter, yes, you see what I am saying it is not only sciences fault but ours for allowing them to get away with stupid incompetence.
      As if you follow Defkalion site I have destroyed any last vestige of maryyago’s influence.
      He is irreverent as are scientific dead-brains telling us that UFO’s are not a real phenomenon.
      Paul I am sure shudders every time I mention UFO’s but I use this example to prove the insane attitude that the scientific establishment has engendered in people.
      All the examples I give are proven anomalies that should be investigated with vigour.
      Near death experiences, OOBE, Telepathy, Remote Viewing, Etc. Etc. are all proven anomalies that science tries hard to debunk and avoid.
      Time for you and me to enlighten the World, these are proven examples of reality and the dumb-brains like maryyago who try to hide them are doing the World A great disservice.
      I am going to bed for a couple of hours.

  38. Dave Shriver

    December 30, 2011 at 2:06 pm

    I would like to see the simple return of local greenhouses. Most of these in the northern USA are closed, most likely due to the very high cost of heating them during the winter. With eCats, the cost of heating would once again be affordable.

    However, we need to beware of the Dark side possibilities. Lets hope the “free” energy of the Ni-H LENR does not lead to our world becoming like Giedi Prime, the Harkonnen home-world of the “Dune” novels.

    Just because we CAN do a thing, does not mean we SHOULD do it.

    • Peter Roe

      December 30, 2011 at 2:28 pm

      The output from tens, even hundreds of millions of small e-cats would only amount to a tiny fraction of the energy arriving from the sun. There should not be any unforseen problems as the relatively small amount of additional heat energy will largely just be radiated into space at night.

      However, if there were untoward effects, we could just resume the road we’re on (assuming we ever get off it) – ever increasing insulation standards, low energy lighting, non-heat-producing energy sources (wind, hydroelectric, tidal, etc), pricing up and taxing energy costs to limit usage, allowing the banks to impoverish the middle classes to reduce consumption, etc.

      • Pekka Janhunen

        December 30, 2011 at 2:43 pm

        Yes, this was discussed here some months back. Roughly, if we would use 100 times more energy then nowadays, the global mean temperature would increase by 2-3 degrees C. Local effects are another and much more complex question.

  39. Burt

    December 30, 2011 at 2:27 pm

    No grid, no cords,
    No energy lords.

  40. arian

    December 30, 2011 at 2:46 pm

    Defkalion GT

    Defkalion is not using the term “e-cat” since the brake of our contract with EFA, nor any other similar term proposed by other third parties inventions.

    We have stated already and very clearly that there is no association between our products or business with any third party IP/business.

    It is true that some discussions in other Internet forums keep on confusing Hyperions and e-cats, lions or other animals. We are not responsible on this. Our product’s specs are public already and our business principals, vision and goals have been stated in this forum topics quite clearly.

    We have express our respect and we keep on respecting everyone in LENR trying to get results or to build products, without trying to “kill” no-one with any infringement or any cheep marketing tricks, as you claim. This respect is also for Andrea Rossi’s on what he has achived or tried so far.

    If you think the above are not correct, please provide links for any public statements or comments of ours that can prove your claims.

    Thank you

  41. arian

    December 30, 2011 at 2:50 pm

    Defkalion GT

    Out of the several proposed theories trying to explain the “brake” of the Coulomb barrier, there seems to be one more proposed here: a nano Chack Noris squeezing protons with his bare hands :D. One more challenge for our theorists of the R&D team to check if this is feasible, next to the famous pleasure sensor problem that our R&D has resolved already (videos on a pleasure sensor working prototype will be released “later” for sceptics) 😉

    Out of the humor, which is acceptable, please keep in mind that we characterize the reaction within Hyperions as Chemically Assisted Low Energy Nuclei (or nuclear) Reaction. And there is no humor involved in such characterization.

    As for the “catalysts” involved, we will have no problem to write their names on the Hyperion’s product plates, as Coca Cola or Pepsi are doing with their self-destructive products. Of course this will happen following the licensing of Hyperions. Then silvio.caggia can address his speculative questions to others to get his answers.


  42. Greg Daigle

    December 30, 2011 at 3:18 pm

    eCat and electric vehicles are a natural. An electric vehicle (EV) retrofitted with a 1kW eCat with thermoelectric generator could trickle charge Li-ion batteries continuously. Better yet, for those of us in northern climates we need not worry about depleting the battery to heat the passenger compartment as it would be supplied directly by the thermal output of the eCat. Other electric accessories including AC could similarly be powered by the eCat without impacting the performance or mileage of the EV.

    I could see this technology making it to thin-layer technology… everything from emergency blankets infused with a nickel/hydrogen matrix activated upon exposure to air… to wallboard or even wallpaper that warms up when lights are on and cools down when lights are off.

    As with electronics, the really interesting ideas will come about as the technology evolves from specially designed implementations to become embedded in everything things… and from there to becoming ubiquitous and pervasive in our environment.

  43. Tomas Douting

    December 30, 2011 at 3:33 pm

    With a serious nod to the concerns for those who might be motivated to toss monkey wrenches into the works, the more fanciful side of my brain is drawn toward the treatments that the fiction writers have given to nearly unbelievable advances in technologies. Verne and Clarke are excellent examples, as many of us already know Clarke’s Third Law: “Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.” (“Profiles of The Future”, 1961)

    I am also reminded of the fictions of Heinlein. His shipstone matches many of the characteristics of the near miracles we are discussing here. Without any description of what is inside the device Heinlein describes a world in which a shipstone of modest size can power a home or business for a year, small shipstones power electrical appliances, cars, aircraft and more, and the result eliminated the necessity for the power grid. In his insightful prescience the shipstone itself must be recharged from time to time (and the contents and process are tightly held secrets). There is a vague reference to some nuclear nature in that the device responds with nuclear detonation if an attempt is made to dismantle it.

    His envisioned world was not entirely utopian.

    There may be lessons learned from the musings of fiction writers.

  44. georgehants

    December 30, 2011 at 8:04 pm

    Peter, re. your last, is it not wonderful that your inter-dimension interpretation is as good as the cleverest scientist on the planet, because nobody knows.
    Does it not feel good to speculate freely on a reality that science in general is frightened stiff to even admit exists.
    Time for people to openly speculate on UFO’s and other proven phenomenon without fear of being abused by dead-brain science or a maryyugo.

    We will have to wait many years for our Nobel Prizes as Cold Fusion is going to use up the next decades worth.

    • admin

      December 30, 2011 at 8:21 pm

      George, please stop the repetitive UFO comments and the constant and repeated attacks on a body that does not exist (science). There are many sites on the web that are better suited to such discussions.



      • georgehants

        December 30, 2011 at 8:24 pm

        Sorry Paul, carried away with the good that Rossi is doing to highlight the faults with much of science.
        Will fall into non controversial line.

  45. David

    December 31, 2011 at 1:08 am

    If there is anyone reading with a strong mathematical background, would it be possible to try and do some crude calculations to determine how much Nickel and Hydrogen would be used up annually once LENR reactors become common place?

    Also my concerns regarding this tech are as follows;

    One. I don’t know exactly how much Hydrogen and Nickel is available on earth to use in this way. But burning things such as fossil fuel, although Not good as far as co2 goes, at least makes the elements in the waste products available to be recycled back into the compounds they were before they were burned. Whereas with LENR the elements themselves are (transmuted?) into other elements. Making copper and iron? More abundant and Nickel and Hydrogen more rare.

    Two. I fear people will become irresponsible when energy is cheap and some of the great work some of us are doing to take us into a world of zero carbon buildings with no fuel bills etc will be pointless in many eyes.

    Third and finally. I have real fears as to what the near future holds if/when this tech becomes available. An what it will do to the economies of countries and the way they will respond to this. E.g what will Saudi Arabia have going for them once oil is worth x amount less than it is now?

    My hope is that this will be the hammer which will smash the grip the corrupt ruling elite have on the world. An that we will finally go forward together into a resource based economy. We have the technology to free mankind from all that ails us. An if this technology can give space travel a huge boost then the problem of over population would in say 100 years not be such a problem anymore. Once we spread to the asteroid belt and begin mining more resources so that we may build our cities in the stars…

    Yours hopefullyt, David Robinson

    • Pekka Janhunen

      December 31, 2011 at 11:56 am

      (1) If one assumes that only Ni62 and Ni64 react to produce Cu63 and Cu65 are Rossi currently maintains, then to produce all the energy we nowadays consume by NiH fusion would require running all the presently produced nickel through that process. The process turns 5% of the nickel into copper and the rest 95% remains as nickel usable for other purposes. If Earth is not enough, there is plenty of nickel in the asteroid belt. The largest iron-nickel asteroid is 16 Psyche with 200 km diameter.

      (2) If energy becomes cheap and clean, using it would not be irresponsible as such. But of course disturbing nature and people with noisy machines, excessive constructions and excessive lights should be avoided. Biosphere is the rare or perhaps unique thing that we must guard.

      (3) Places like Alaska, Gulf of Mexico, Norway and Russia would be hit first because there oil and gas are more expensive to exploit than in the Middle East. Their oil and gas business might even disappear entirely. The price of oil would be expected to drop to a level where it’s still marginally profitable to produce in Saudi Arabia and other places where the production is cheapest. Oil is also needed for plastics and asphalt, so it would be expected to survive longer than coal and gas.

      As a consolation, usually technical revolutions have been peaceful in the past (steam, train, coal, electricity, computer, internet). Luddites who break machines are still a rarity in history.

  46. RERT

    December 31, 2011 at 5:08 pm

    At risk of stating the obvious, but the eventual effect of very cheap energy will be to render cheap those things with high energy content.

    My favourite is titanium: stronger and lighter than steel, and corrosion resistant. Maybe your car will never rust or need painting.

    In a similar vein, ceramics would be much cheaper, as would artificial diamond. The latter is an excellent conductor of heat, so might find surprising new uses. Things might not wear out so fast.

    Another use of cheap energy would be in transport. People are already willing to live an hour from work, and they don’t really care how far away that is, if the cost is low enough. With energy at zero cost people would probably live further from the office, and travel to work faster, either on the ground or in the air in personal aircraft.

    Another interesting question, which I don’t know the answer to, is the energy content of IT. Given a chip has dozens of lithographic steps, and starts with crystalline silicon, it can’t be zero. I’d place a small bet that energy costs would be at least 10% of the cost of a chip – before IP and monopoly pricing is added.

    I’m rambling now – Happy New Year! and back to the brandy…

  47. Tomas Douting

    December 31, 2011 at 6:41 pm

    Many are able to see it likely that a variety of things that have large energy content will eventually cost less. Hopefully the education of new engineers can keep pace with the opportunities to manifest the most complex of those changes in new products, techniques and processes.

    Is it a given that all things will be less costly? Will there be some things that become more valuable to have? Jed suggests that land may be one thing that becomes more valuable as the need to congregate into cities is no longer as pressing.

    And so where will we live? I employed an engineer who in the late 1990’s telecommuted across the continent to work for us because he preferred to live in a place where he could enjoy his leisure passion of competitive sailing. It was an astounding success for all concerned. I suspect the lower energy costs will allow people to live as far from the “office” as they wish. The occasional travel will be less costly. I would like to do the same – but certain things just require too much hands-on. I shall have to wait for an even better improvement in telepresence and more rapid of transit.