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Presidential Candidate Hopes For Cold Fusion – Update

December 9, 2011

UPDATE (See end of post)

A little over two weeks ago, we were talking about Andrea Rossi’s invitation from Senator Bruce Tarr to visit Boston to explore the possibility of eCat manufacturing in Massachusetts. Reading the tealeaves, it seems that Tarr maintained a healthy touch of scepticism but even so, the invitation was remarkable and I wondered then if we were seeing the tip of a larger movement among the power-brokers towards the possibility that cold fusion was real. Many wondered if Rossi was simply looking for investors, hoping to do a deal under the table for buckets of money in one of those tiresome over-complicated fraud stories they make up.

Today, we get another surprise. David Bernstein of the Boston Pheoenix spotted something unusual in the transcript of a Washington Examiner interview with US Presidential candidate Mitt Romney. Almost jokingly, he mentions cold-fusion and his hope that a solution can be found so that it can be used to produce electricity. As Bernstein notes:

It is unusual, to say the least, that a campaigning Presidential candidate would know anything about cold fusion, let alone recalling off the top of his head the university that conducted an experiment more than two decades ago. It is even odder that a campaigning Presidential candidate would voluntarily cite, in an on-the-record interview, the promise of a science considered by most physicists to be a total hoax. Frankly, you might expect it from Newt Gingrich, not Romney.

The full transcript is here and the audio is on YouTube and embedded below. Romney:

I do believe in basic science. I believe in participating in space. I believe in analysis of new sources of energy. I believe in laboratories, looking at ways to conduct electricity with — with cold fusion, if we can come up with it. It was the University of Utah that solved that. We somehow can’t figure out how to duplicate it.

 

Listen from 3.30 on, to get the comments in context. It’s worth doing this because you will hear him chuckle as he mentions cold fusion. It left me wondering if he was making a joke. I decided he was not but cannot discount the possibility or that the remark was an error (confusing cold fusion for something else). Is this a coincidence too many? Are we truly beginning to see signs of an underlying change in the landscape? As with most things in this story, we cannot be sure. Phrased in such a light-hearted manner, if Rossi pans out, Romney can point to this record and look pretty damned smart. If the eCat does not live up to its promise, he can always say he was joking or that it was a slip of the tongue. Clever, really. He should have been a politician.

 

UPDATE:

Reading some of the comments here and on Vortex got me wondering. On the one hand, his exposition sounds confused. He talks about conducting electricity and then links that to CF and U of Utah. Like others, I thought he may have meant superconductivity but decided against that because of the Utah connection. What if, however, he had recently been briefed on cold fusion, its possible implications and the current controversy surrounding it? He is not deeply conversant with hard science but is extremely good at parsing the words he needs to throw out at the appropriate time. On this occasion and put on the spot, he wants to mention superconductivity but the recent cf brief trips him and he gets the two confused. This is why he laughs and tries to cover up the hiccup. Given the nature of the subject, most people on the planet would not blink at his words so they might just disappear. To him (rightly) it is a minor fluff. It is only those of us watching closely (thank you Mr Bernstein) who notice at all.

That explanation may be a stretch. However, that cf was on his mind, complete with its links to U of U and the problems of replication (all trotted out in a confused stumble) is hard evidence that this scienceless person was briefed. Deliberate mention of cf or error, the brief on its own is pretty significant.

 

 

[With thanks to georgehants]

 

Posted by on December 9, 2011. Filed under Media & Blogs,Politics. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0. You can leave a response or trackback to this entry

85 Responses to Presidential Candidate Hopes For Cold Fusion – Update

  1. Tony Reply

    December 9, 2011 at 8:20 pm

    Taking the Mickey? Not sure, the subject must have been on his mind though. I get the impression he started seriously but reacted to his audience very quickly.

  2. art Reply

    December 9, 2011 at 8:30 pm

    I wonder what might have been his most-recent course in any kind of science – high school biology, perhaps.

    • Stephen Reply

      December 9, 2011 at 10:42 pm

      Biology? Isn’t he a mormon?

  3. Mahron Reply

    December 9, 2011 at 8:31 pm

    Nobody is going to look very smart if rossi is the one showing up with the holy grail. Given the resources he has and the fact that he is a team of one.

  4. Iggy Dalrymple Reply

    December 9, 2011 at 8:41 pm

    Romney and Gingrich are the brainiest guys in the presidential race. Romney ran a venture capital company and being a Mormon, would be familiar with the Univ of Utah.

  5. Nathan Hulse Reply

    December 9, 2011 at 8:50 pm

    The excerpt sounds as fumbling and as it looks on ‘paper’. If only cold fusion were the secret to good political oration!

    “I believe in participating in space.”

    He sure does have a way with words, huh.

    • Peter Roe Reply

      December 11, 2011 at 4:36 pm

      “The problem with political jokes is they get elected.” ~Henry Cate, VII

      Why is it that a certain breed of used car salesman type politicians often have a head that is physically too large for their body, like this one? It certainly isn’t to house their huge brains.

  6. Ghost Dawg Reply

    December 9, 2011 at 9:15 pm

    Krivit Interviewed on LENR for Intelligence Agency

    Posted on December 8, 2011 by Steven B. Krivit

    LINK: http://newenergytimes.com/v2/government/Intel/Krivit-LENR-Interview-IARPA.shtml

    • admin Reply

      December 9, 2011 at 9:17 pm

      Thanks, GD. I’m already working on that. Fascinating stuff.

      Paul

    • CM Edwards Reply

      December 9, 2011 at 10:00 pm

      Fascinating!

      Krivit makes a fair case for the Widom-Larson hypothesis – as fair a case as can be made for any theoretical explanation at this point. He also gave some good references.

      He flatly denies the existence of LENR devices with potential practical applications three times. That ain’t just Rossi bashing. He must have a low estimation of Piantelli and Ahern’s work, too, to be that adamant.

      It makes sense that IARPA would have at least a passing interest in this topic. It’s a pity their contractor indicated that Krivit was the only subject they planned to interview, but at least he posted the interview.

    • Pekka Janhunen Reply

      December 10, 2011 at 9:57 am

      Krivit seems to be so certain about “WL theory” that he doesn’t even consider other models and possibilities. Whereas to me, WL theory basically doesn’t make much sense. It explains the Coulomb barrier problem by invoking virtual neutrons, but leaves unexplained the absence of strong positron annihilation gammas, the absence of longer lived radioactive isotopes and the absence of directly emitted high-energy gammas. And creating the virtual neutron itself is highly questionable: the energy barrier is anyway as much as 1 MeV, hard to gather it together from few eV chemical stuff. Even in white dwarfs, protons and electrons prefer to stay as protons and electrons, only in neutron star pressure they coalesce to neutrons. I think there are other explanation attempts such as Arata’s, Miley’s, Kim’s, which look more promising than WL. Or something completely different that no one has yet thought about.

    • Thicket Reply

      December 11, 2011 at 2:23 pm

      Wow. Krivit sure is a diabolical, sneaky guy.

      He gives a long interview on LENR and he doesn’t mention Rossi once! What a masterful stroke of diversion, since we know that Krivit has a personal vendetta against Rossi. Krivit takes any opportunity to besmirch Rossi’s world-changing cold fusion technology. Rossi is right. Krivit is a paid snake. He’s just trying to lull us into a false sense of security. Don’t fall for it!

      Hey, wait a minute. I bet Krivit did slam Rossi at great length, but he left that part out. I encourage someone to send an FOIA request to the Intelligence Agency to get the full scoop on what Krivit actually said. Is there no depths that Krivit won’t sink to in his crusade against Rossi?

      Of course, the Intelligence Agency may be the ones that are paying Krivit. A FOIA request would be pointless.

      Don’t let the snakes get you Andrea. We’re with you all the way.

      Note: For those that don’t understand the point of this post, it’s a sarcastic dig at all the Rossi believers that continuously attribute all sorts of nefarious tactics and devious motives to Krivit.

  7. raul heining Reply

    December 9, 2011 at 9:20 pm

    Romney will say whatever necessary to get a vote.
    He and the likes do not believe in evolution, climate change and a bit of equality, why should they believe in cold fusion or LENR? Their big objective is to get
    a pipeline from Canada.
    Regards
    raul

  8. CM Edwards Reply

    December 9, 2011 at 9:21 pm

    Given the combination of political campaign infighting with cold fusion’s bad reputation, Romney will be blasted for this in the mainstream media.

    Perhaps we’ll get more mainstream news about LENR? :)

  9. Richy Roo (@RichyRoo2011) Reply

    December 9, 2011 at 9:55 pm

    He says ‘conducting electricity with cold fusion’, could be be getting confused with super-conductivity?
    As a previous poster mentioned, the last time any politician did a science course would be high school :( Probably a causal relationship between their mathematical illiteracy and the financial and other problems we have.

    • Nathan Hulse Reply

      December 10, 2011 at 3:25 pm

      “Probably a causal relationship between their mathematical illiteracy and the financial and other problems we have.”

      If, conversely, the USA had a technocratic presidency, the situation might be no better. This is where we’re heading in Europe…

    • Ivy Matt Reply

      December 12, 2011 at 6:53 am

      I think the word he was looking for was “generate”.

  10. Stephen Reply

    December 9, 2011 at 10:47 pm

    “…looking at ways to conduct electricity with — with cold fusion, if we can come up with it. It was the University …”

    “conduct” electricity? problem with the English language or he just doesn’t know what the hell he is supposed to be taking about? Or, like the typical presidential candidate, a total moron?

    Most likely, all of the above. Damn, now I have this cartoon show’s music from the mormon episode playing in my head (” Dumb dumb dumb dumb…”)

    • Nathan Hulse Reply

      December 10, 2011 at 2:57 pm

      If you spun his chair, rest assured, you’d find a hole for a hand in the small of his back.

      “I do believe in basic science.”

      Newspeak. He believes in reductionism; everything can be explained by the existence of God.

      “I believe in participating in space.”

      It only reads/sounds marginally better when taken in context!

      “I believe in analysis of new sources of energy.”

      Why use the word ‘analysis’ rather than ‘research’ or ‘exploration’? Analysis is the task that his handlers have their minions perform (the important part of the process, eh Mitt). No doubt he conflates scientific, political – and maybe even theological – modes of analysis.

      “I believe in laboratories, looking at ways to conduct electricity with — with cold fusion, if we can come up with it.”

      This is how cold fusion re-enters mainstream discourse? God save us all!

      “It was the University of Utah that solved that.”

      Rember that guys, it was an American wot done it, not an Italian or a Jap.

      “We somehow can’t figure out how to duplicate it.”

      Who knows Mitt, but I’d be satisfied with replication.

      Romney is concerned with God, patriotism and whatever snippets of the zeitgeist his handlers prime him with. I doubt science is really ‘on his radar’! Not that I think his little outing was insignificant, of course. It reveals that awareness of LENR is propagating within GOP circles, and what is more, a GOP candidate has been advised to speak of it in favourable terms. No doubt OPEC is not amused.

      ‘I believe in…’ Oh shut up, already!

  11. admin Reply

    December 10, 2011 at 12:04 am

    Post has been updated…

    Paul

  12. Married 2 my Yugo Reply

    December 10, 2011 at 1:28 am

    Krivits response as posted above shows a strange bias.
    He at once states hat Pianatelli/Focardi experiments are valid research but passes over Rossi who has direct affiliation with professor Focardi and indirectly, Pianatelli.

    If i for example dispute Einstein, but uphold examples of the work of Bose, what then do I say about joint Bose/Einstein collaboration.

    Could someone explain this disparity?
    Its as if Focardi was a valid experimenter until Rossi came along.

    I say this with no bias on towards Rossi, pro or con.

    • Sojourner Soo Reply

      December 10, 2011 at 4:28 am

      Poor you. Seriously.

    • GreenWin Reply

      December 10, 2011 at 5:07 am

      Who cares? Mr. Krivet is a reporter.

    • LCD Reply

      December 11, 2011 at 4:52 am

      No I agree with you completely. I saw the same thing and immediately wrote a scathing yet polite comment which on wire will never see the light of day

  13. Neil Taylor Reply

    December 10, 2011 at 3:32 am

    To me it looks like a calculated political move that may pay off for him over this next year when much of the current LENR happenings will shine through all the BS of the past. If that happens, and I believe it will, he will then be out in front of the pack promoting and supporting LENR with answers to many of the energy, environmental, and financial problems plaguing our world…

  14. Casey Reply

    December 10, 2011 at 8:35 am

    Mittens is from Massachusetts, former Governor and all, so he was probably aware that Rossi paid the State House a visit and why.

  15. Spyros Reply

    December 10, 2011 at 12:15 pm

    In my country, for a long time, we were laughing with “He’s a clever american President, he can chew gum and walk simultaneously”.
    But I’m becoming bitter and I apologize.
    There’s no hope if a new device fall in the hands of politicians. Look at the world they have made!

  16. Peter Roe Reply

    December 10, 2011 at 12:45 pm

    This particular specimen looks to me like the typical shallow self seeking but entirely vacuous talking head that US politics attracts (as opposed to the slightly deeper, self-seeking… that the rest of the world gets). It seems unlikely he will play any significant part in the Ni-H story. However the significance, as admin has said, is that he has clearly been briefed on the latest energy developments, even if he has utterly failed to understand the briefings and managed to screw up his sound bites as a result.

    Probably much the same briefings are being whispered in the ears of other politicians who are slightly better equipped to understand, e.g., Frau Merkel of Germany, who as has been mentioned has a background in science research. As Spyros says, this may not necessarily be a Good Thing, but apparent support, even from politicians who are not equipped to understand what they have been briefed to support, is better than dismissal or blanking in an attempt to protect their paymasters’ interests.

    Indeed, if this type of incident is repeated, it would be a strong indication that the energy corporates have decided to ‘allow’ CF (presumably as they intend to take control of it) and are now beginning to brief their glove puppets accordingly.

  17. Dale G. Basgall Reply

    December 10, 2011 at 2:17 pm

    RE; video, and I can interpret the intent of the speaker to re-arrange and intently turn a pre- destined failing economy into more spending and a different place to live.

    Economy gets better when people spend more, requires more energy, and that’s been common for years here in the U.S.

    There is not that many more years of fission materials left in the world, at the current rate maybe 50. Very limited, so the advancements in the CF sciences to come will allow people to use more energy and pay less money. More money for everything else and so on, and another baby boom. People plump, warm, and happy.

    I think everyone posting on this forum realises the limitless industrial impact just one product working from any manufacturer regarding the Rossi e-cat method would produce on world markets immediately. The thought of that is exciting!

  18. Mike Reply

    December 10, 2011 at 2:24 pm

    Seems like he wants to hedge his bets for future energy sources: not sure if he knows any more than the rest of us
    After mentioning cold fusion he promotes his 2007 speech re government assistance to basic science and licensing of discoveries: as if he wants to imply he would finance cold fusion research
    But further on with nuclear power he again wants government to finance new nuclear technology
    Also wants to give money back guarantees to contractors in current nuclear schemes if the government cancels

  19. Dale G. Basgall Reply

    December 10, 2011 at 3:35 pm

    In response to the video link George sent to admin. after I watched it I remembered a rant on msnbc from a reporter on this subject of the video.

    If you haven’t seen it already go to;

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1lJd2eLG0M&feature=youtu.be

  20. quax Reply

    December 10, 2011 at 4:21 pm

    Spiegel.de the most read German news site has an article on Rossi:

    http://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/technik/0,1518,801836,00.html (text is of course German).

    This is a pretty big deal as this as mainstream media as it gets in Germany.

    The article is pretty objective but the frustration with Rossi not allowing for objective tests is quite palpable.

    • AB Reply

      December 10, 2011 at 4:48 pm

      The Spiegel article says that, according to experts, the e-cat violates thermodynamics. Seems like the so called experts are uninformed about the purported mechanism and LENR in general.

      Other than that it seems like a skeptical but fair article.

      • georgehants Reply

        December 10, 2011 at 5:03 pm

        AB. The E-CAT if true would “violate thermodynamics” in the sense that the energy would have to arise outside of known physics, to a layperson the difference is nitpicking.
        Until the gap of the energy’s origin is filled it does violate thermodynamics.

        • AB Reply

          December 10, 2011 at 5:27 pm

          “… violates second law of thermodynamics, which states that no inexhaustible energy source can be built.”

          Seems more like a smear attempt by an “expert” than genuine discussion.

          • georgehants

            December 10, 2011 at 5:35 pm

            AB, please explain where the energy is coming from in Cold Fusion.
            I will be happy to learn from an “expert”

          • Dale G. Basgall

            December 10, 2011 at 6:07 pm

            If your theory is found to be against the second law of thermodynamics I can give you no hope; there is nothing for it but to collapse in deepest humiliation. — Sir Arthur Stanley Eddington, the Nature of the Physical World (1927)

            It is customary to classify supposed over unity machines according to which law of thermodynamics they purport to violate:
             
            An over unity machine of the first kind produces energy from nothing, giving the user unlimited ‘free’ energy. It thus violates the law of conservation of energy:
             
            An overunity machine of the second kind is a machine which spontaneously converts thermal energy into mechanical work. When the thermal energy is equivalent to the work done, this does not violate the law of conservation of energy. However it does violate the more subtle second law of thermodynamics. Such a machine is different from real heat engines (such as car engines), which always involve a transfer of heat from a hotter reservoir to a colder one, the latter being warmed up in the process. The signature of an over unity machine of the second kind is that there is only one heat reservoir involved, which is being spontaneously cooled without involving a transfer of heat to a cooler reservoir. This conversion of heat into useful work, without any side effect, is impossible, according to the second law of thermodynamics.

        • quax Reply

          December 10, 2011 at 8:45 pm

          This may be nitpicking to you but if you ever want to understand the underlying mechanism these kind of questions are imminently relevant. And I can ensure you that you won’t be able to significantly improve these devices unless you can understand them. A working theory is an incredibly practical thing.

          incidentally Ahern’s theory postulates localized violations of the 2nd law of thermodynamics.

          Don’t think that this alone could account for these phenomena (assuming they are real).

          I find phonon based explanations or Widom Larsen approach more convincing.

          • Rockyspoon

            December 14, 2011 at 3:52 pm

            Yet I find WL to be incomplete–so incomplete that it doesn’t settle several major questions in my mind. Seems like the answer to how the CF (or LENR/CANR) process works should be more robust, so WL doesn’t do it for me.

            I’m interested in what happened to Ahern’s scheduled expose` of his theory–has he been bought off or capitalized to leverage his theory into a workable unit?

    • Peter Roe Reply

      December 10, 2011 at 5:37 pm

      It may be simple serendipity that it is a mainstream German news medium which is the first to cover Rossi’s devices, but in view of the sensible German decision to ditch nuclear fission, and the scientific competence of their leader, this may be the leading edge of something important.

      The decision to phase out nuclear energy, and the fact that ‘renewables’ cannot make up the shortfall in the short/medium term, means that Germany is very much in the market for new energy sources. Until now, all N. European mainstream news media have maintained an unbroken silence on the topic, so the appearance of this article may well be significant. Other countries may soon follow this lead.

      The very last citizens of North European countries to hear about Rossi will be those of the UK (our politicians are totally up the ar*e of the nuclear industry) and of France (Electricite de France has too much to lose, so same reason in spades).

      • Ivy Matt Reply

        December 12, 2011 at 6:56 am

        Regarding the decision to ditch nuclear fission, maybe the Germans are just optimistic about Wendelstein 7-X.

        • Peter Roe Reply

          December 12, 2011 at 8:51 am

          Wendelstein 7-X is just an experiment in confinement. Even if it produces any useful results it will be decades before these might lead to a useable hot fusion reactor.

          “Hot fusion is the energy source of the future – and it always will be.”

  21. georgehants Reply

    December 10, 2011 at 6:09 pm

    For AB and any other scientist who needs to learn science from a retired second-hand dealer.
    The second Law states that no Energy can be gained or lost in a closed system, Until the source of the energy for Cold Fusion is identified (and gains a Nobel Prize for the finder)it cannot be proven that the energy is not originating from a limitless unexplainable source, which would reduce the second law to an approximation within the presently known laws of physics of our classical World.
    The second law would have to be modified to say it holds as long as we don’t include this unknown source of energy.
    Most scientists work from the second law as a Dogma instead of as a open-minded scientists should do use it as a guide but never say it is immutable.

    • georgehants Reply

      December 10, 2011 at 6:20 pm

      Paul I am only answering comments is that OK.

    • Pekka Janhunen Reply

      December 10, 2011 at 6:42 pm

      George, I think you mixed the first and second laws. Dale explained it correctly above.

      • georgehants Reply

        December 10, 2011 at 6:49 pm

        Pekka Janhunen, yes possible but please interpret my comment to cover perpetual motion machines where if the energy is being introduced from an unexplainable source it until explained would resemble one.

        • Rockyspoon Reply

          December 14, 2011 at 3:56 pm

          What resolves the conflict in that case is that the system described isn’t “closed”–energy from another source outside the “system” is being utilized, which makes it appear like a perpetual motion machine.

          Remember, there’s a bunch of energy tied up in matter: they estimate the amount of matter converted into energy in the Hiroshima atomic bomb was around 1 gram. That’s a good example of how much energy there is in matter! So it doesn’t take a lot of matter to make, for example, the relative small amount of heat coming from an E-Cat over a short period of time.

    • AB Reply

      December 11, 2011 at 12:32 pm

      You missed the point George, Rossi isn’t claiming to create energy from nothing. The cited expert makes a rebuttal to a claim that hasn’t been made. He is either intentionally dishonest or uninformed.

      • georgehants Reply

        December 11, 2011 at 1:01 pm

        You missed the point AB, what does it matter what Rossi claims, the point is that Energy could be created from nothing.

  22. georgehants Reply

    December 10, 2011 at 6:14 pm

    Dale wonderful Quote from Eddington,have you read some of his others such as—-
    Eddington also says: “We begin to suspect that the stuff of the world is mind-stuff. The universe looks more like a thought than like a thing.
    Please read my above reply, I would really appreciate your comment as I could be wrong (but very unlikely)

    • Sebastian Reply

      December 10, 2011 at 10:36 pm

      This is just a badly investigated article. He got so many facts wrong or left important ones out, respectively. Also, it is rather outdated.
      The author doesn’t judge the e-cat but reading statement like “violates the second law of thermodynamics” as a physicist’s quote makes me sick.

      Still, millions will have read this article since it was on the front page of “Der Spiegel” magazine (online edition).

      The better German language article can be found here: http://www.heise.de/tp/artikel/35/35803/1.html (or here: http://esowatch.com/ge/index.php?title=Focardi-Rossi-Energiekatalysator)

  23. georgehants Reply

    December 10, 2011 at 7:05 pm

    I am not being very clear, the answer I am looking for is, if the Energy is coming from a source unexplainable it would seem like magic until the source is explained.
    Excepting that it could prove a non closed system, energy from another source but until that source is discovered more energy is coming out than is put in.
    This could prove another source or thermodynamics is in error.

  24. Barão Reply

    December 10, 2011 at 8:40 pm

    this is a video about LENR, and the strong suppression of this technology.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htgV7fNO-2k

  25. Shane D. Reply

    December 11, 2011 at 2:08 am

    Nothing like mixing politics and science! Guess the next step is to add religion also?

    … oh, I see that Romneys Mormon background has been included, so what is that phrase? Politics and religion and “never mix”?

    Can we skip this stuff and go right at the science part. The web is overloaded with politics and I come here for an escape.

    That Krivit “interview” is odd to me. It just doesn’t resonate in a truthful way. It sounds so contrived. It all seems so self serving. Is it all for real? Weird is all I can say.

    If anything, and it’s not some concoction on his part, Krivits comes across very poorly. He sounds much more close minded than those he accuses of being close minded. With him there is no common ground for debate; if you are against his theory, then you are dogmatic. If not, and you agree, then you are accepted by me… THE Stephen Krivits.

    HE acts God-like (sorry I threw in the religion thing), as if he reigns supreme over the LENR field and all must bow to him.

    He’s almost threatening to those that don’t agree with him and the direction he thinks the LENR field should go.

    He’s worse then the hot-fusion scientists back in F/Ps day. He refuses to even acknowedge any “industrial” applications of LENR. Rossi doesn’t even exist!

    He obviously played a positive role early on in the “cold fusion” field and, I detect, let it go to his head. At this point he is in the narcissitic realm and what he says should be taken with a grain of salt.

    The guys weird… sorry.

  26. Eric Woudenberg Reply

    December 11, 2011 at 2:18 am

    From Rossi’s Blog:
    ——————————-
    Dear Andrea Rossi

    In your opinion the collaboration with University of Bologna will start before the next March or not?

    Francesco Fiorenzani

    Dear Francesco Fiorenzani:

    As I already repeated many times, all the R&D work we are doing with our Consultants is totally confidential and we are not going to give any information about it. If reports will be made, it will not be before 1 year from now, and such information will regard only the data we will deem publicable, since all the R&D is paid by us, not by the taxpayer, so that it will be totally proprietary.
    We will not even disclose the names of the persons which will make the job.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.
    ——————————-

    He’s definitely staunching any hopes for an independent verification.

    Has anyone besides me stopped spreading the ecat gospel to friends and acquaintances?

    • daniel maris Reply

      December 11, 2011 at 3:12 am

      Eric –

      Well I have been cautious I think but it is has been a rollercoaster ride. I believe it still is, because although we seem to have stalled somewhat at the moment, I don’t see real evidence of a scam. As for Bologna, the most important thing is whether they formally announce that they are in contract with him. That is what lends credibility to the process.

      I think I said I would give Rossi one year from the October demo, since it was he who said from hereon the market would decide. If there are no signs of bona fide customers after one year (i.e. by Oct 2012), well yes I think I would conclude that this is scam or delusion.

      • Eric Woudenberg Reply

        December 11, 2011 at 8:47 am

        The thing that struck me was the defensiveness in his reply. Someone is asking politely whether in Rossi’s opinion testing will start by March. He responds with impatience, maybe even anger.

        This is not promising. There may not be evidence of a scam, but there is also little evidence that his work will merit world wide interest anytime soon.

        • daniel maris Reply

          December 11, 2011 at 11:12 am

          Yes, he did sound defensive. It wasn’t an encouraging reply for those of us who sense that LENR is genuine. Maybe he’d had a bad day in the lab or maybe this guy has asked him other questions which have annoyed him!

  27. LCD Reply

    December 11, 2011 at 4:57 am

    Rossi ‘s somewhat delusional. He’s selling 1MW reactors to the public!! Let me rephrase … He’s selling R&D units to the public! Who is he kidding. His customers will know more than he will about the ecat.

  28. ost Reply

    December 11, 2011 at 6:57 am

    There is kind of profession to catch people on a lie by their face, eyes, gestures. And we have videos of Rossi and Focardi talking about ecat…

  29. daniel maris Reply

    December 11, 2011 at 11:10 am

    Ost –

    Yes – reading body behaviour can often tell you if people are lying (nose scratching, closing the eyes at certain points, pulling the ear, verbal slips etc). I have never noticed any of those when Rossi and Focardi speak. Of course they could be deluded and telling the truth as they sincerely believe it to be, but mistakenly so. Some people can train themselves to lie convincingly or even can do so naturally. Most people can’t.

  30. georgehants Reply

    December 11, 2011 at 11:47 am

    • Pekka Janhunen Reply

      December 11, 2011 at 2:01 pm

      Surprisingly good article, among the best of that type

  31. Dale G. Basgall Reply

    December 11, 2011 at 11:47 am

    The powder, the nickel; it seems quite a bit of potential energy could be liberated by simply calculating the energy required to cause it (nickel) to exist and then extract the potential stored energy in some way.

    Potential energy, the phenomena; it seems this potential could be limitless and how do we make that usefull. Many deviations beginning at the potential, to the end result of work, that is what we are after.

    So to Reply to George, I agree that we should not use the theories or calculations of past to determine a potential we cannot yet explain in science physics.

    I am in belief that; Mr. Rossi obviously jumped the gun so to speak, he either interpreted a feeling he had or he had some type of inside information on this work (yet undetermined) he has exhibited to us, that others were also making observations of anomolous energy. He clearly wanted to be the first to exploit the technology.He did not in my opinion, but catalyzed the introduction as a new phenomena in a way Hollywood would.

    Mr. Rossi “is” the catalyst that got a reaction started in all of us. I truly understand what he is doing. He is in a certain stage of awareness as an independent inventor. The awareness that no matter what the patent laws state and the rights someone has when granted a U.S. patent it is human character to force others to “lead”-”follow”-or, “get out of the way”.

    I knew from the onset of this saga regarding Mr. Rossi that the paperwork would eat him alive and allow others to simply “follow closely”. The thing is that he had a great opportunity with defkalion but reacted as a jounior inventor. His unprofessionalism by view of the attitude he has exhibited shows he is not capable of furthering the science he has catalyzed within all of us concerned.

    I continue to speak with others regarding versions of past machines claiming over unity and breaking the laws of currently used physics. I am always listening but find 100% of the time that the current laws of physics work in the world as well as in space, and the only new science with any of the past devices claiming over unity was in the minds of a person who has newly discovered and observed something they cannot explain, and based only on their awareness at the scientific level.

    I respect companies and people that do not intend to lead a person to believe, that have a real product, that have real safety concerns, and the wherewithall to professionally see the project through to the end goal. Mr. Rossi is simply doing the best he can in a new world he created for himself and it doesn’t look like an easy gravytrain.

  32. georgehants Reply

    December 11, 2011 at 12:16 pm

    Dale you said,
    “So to Reply to George, I agree that we should not use the theories or calculations of past to determine a potential we cannot yet explain in science physics.”

    Thank you for taking time to understand my hopelessly put comments.
    I of course am not trying to argue that thermodynamic laws are in error in this reality.
    I have put a question on PESN that I hope this time explains my position, no answers yet.

    A question please, for the experts on thermodynamics, I only talk in generalities not technicalities.
    What would reduce thermodynamics to an approximation in our 3/4 dimension known reality.
    What discoveries of beyond known science, other dimensions, zero point energy, Quantum, anything, that like Relativity reduced Newton to a special case.

    • Dale G. Basgall Reply

      December 11, 2011 at 1:56 pm

      Zero Point and Quantum measurment theories have been directed in research by several with really deep pockets. Example is, from Nov 16,2009 to Nov 16, 2010 I personally witnesses 15 million U.S. dollars vaporized in a quest for zero point.

      Fortunately the science team was more concerned with the theory and the possibility of producing unknown fluctuations that travel theroetically forever in time and space presumed unaffected by mass. They will not proceed with a device prior to it being explained, that is respectfull.

      I know this may seem a little far out, but current international physicists and mathematitions
      on teams researching these fields start at the same point.

      Comparing all religions and studying all known graphics like “ruins” and really deep stuff. Then living with these people like “Chi gong”, “monks” and so on for several weeks and then on to people that can do extra ordinary things.

      So to get into a new theroy (TOE) it begins inside oneself and requires a total openness to new things possible. I am excited about the new sciences emerging, it appears science is now going to admit that prayer works through a quantum fluctuation vibration that many are trying to establish the algorithm for.

      So with due respect George, your comments do make sense.

      • georgehants Reply

        December 11, 2011 at 4:11 pm

        Dale may I humbly bow to a true scientist. You appear to use the three gifts we are all given.
        Truth.
        Common sense. which says that if something like the Quantum is outside of commonsense but all measurements to the most accurate of any in science, confirm it, then common sense says except it and widen ones common sense.
        Logic.

  33. Chan Reply

    December 11, 2011 at 1:56 pm

    Just do it!
    1. RFG essential to HEAT tiny Cu particles which behave as short circuit. It also acts on Fe by way of movement of particles which become individual magnets. It also aligns Ni particles as if bowling pins ready to be assaulted by oscillated hydride ions.
    2. Always use Cu for chamber. It has a permeability of 1. Steel is a shield.
    3. I buy Mg powder from http://www.americanpyrosupply.com/Products-PYROTECHNIC_METALS.html
    place in metal container with attached tube for evacuating and pressurizing with H. Heated to 250 C and as it is cooled an uptake of H creates the essential MgH2.
    4. Mix molar % of MgH2 30 (100% excess) Ni 30, Cu 20, Fe 20 in glove box. You might try igniter such as ANTIMONY TRISULFIDE or LITHIUM BOROHYDRIDE in tiny catalytic amounts.
    5. Experiment with RFG to determine sweet spot for initial heating and then sweet spot for maintaining reaction, modulating pulse rate, frequency and power. Wave shape is important. Half wave sweet spots also exist.
    6. Follow up success with miniature scale oil dispersion method using Delphi FD0009 Fuel Pump and heat exchanger http://www.amazon.com/Plate-Copper-Brazed-Exchanger-Stainless/dp/B0039WRMKC/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1323609048&sr=8-9 from Amazon.
    7. I flush expansion space in larger tube at top with “Barbecue” Propane, shut off from atmosphere and allow slight pressure by occasional venting.
    Hope this is of help.
    Chan

    • arian Reply

      December 11, 2011 at 3:54 pm

      Hi chan

      why you don’t make a video from your work?

      I would be very grateful if you do that.

    • Peter Roe Reply

      December 11, 2011 at 3:55 pm

      Are you saying you have conducted this experiment Chan? If so have you published details elsewhere?

      If not, what is the source of the information please, particularly the use of magnesium hydride as a catalytic hydrogen donor?

      What form does the RF induction heater take in the configuration you describe?

  34. arian Reply

    December 11, 2011 at 3:28 pm

    #
    Andrea Rossi
    December 10th, 2011 at 3:43 PM

    Dear JPA USA:
    We are working very hard to fulfill the program you talk about. As I said, maybe in a couple of years we will be able to sell the domestic units. For the 1 MW ones we are already in the market and the price will be cut 50% soon, while the electric power will arrive faster than expected, thanks to the big work we are doing with our Customer.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  35. georgehants Reply

    December 11, 2011 at 4:15 pm

    If Rossi is a scam he spends an awful lot of time keeping up with technology.

    Francesco Fiorenzani
    December 11th, 2011 at 8:03 AM
    Dear Andrea Rossi
    Do you anything about ORC ? ORC is
    a product by Turboden and it could be
    a valid solution for e cat to convert
    thermal power in electric power
    warm regards
    Francesco Fiorenzani

    Andrea Rossi
    December 11th, 2011 at 8:27 AM
    Dear Francesco Fiorenzani:
    I know ORC. For us the efficiency is too low. Is a very good system for waste heat streams.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  36. arian Reply

    December 11, 2011 at 5:39 pm

    New website about lenr and replication of e-cat.

    http://www.apteryxoz.com/Home.aspx

    • Peter Roe Reply

      December 11, 2011 at 5:52 pm

      Very swish template! Possibly a new home for the frequenters of the mysteriously-disappeared ecatbuilder.com.

  37. Blanco69 Reply

    December 11, 2011 at 9:03 pm

    Sorry for off topic question but what happened to Ahern? Did he speak? I’m not seeing any chat on the content, or lack thereof, of his theory. Was Tom B not there?
    Blanco.

    • Tom Baccei Reply

      December 11, 2011 at 9:14 pm

      Blanco69, I went but unfortunately Dr. Ahern decided at the last minute to cancel his presentation. His slides were made public however. Search around on this site and you can find a link to them.
      Tom B.

  38. Blanco69 Reply

    December 11, 2011 at 9:35 pm

    Thanks Tom, Why do you think he pulled out?

  39. GreenWin Reply

    December 12, 2011 at 2:05 am

    On some authority, Ahern has been subjected to threats. I suppose we can expect more of this as the incumbent energy industry tries to derail LENR.

    • Tom Baccei Reply

      December 12, 2011 at 1:30 pm

      Please clarify this comment. I, for one, would prefer that this sort of claim be made with some justification. Rumors and agitating propaganda can only serve to discredit LENR advocacy. Remember, if it IS a “war” over the perception of truth and reality, THEY have all the gravitas of the establishment on their side. If claims cannot be validated, they will be made to look like “more bull from this fringe group.” I do not mean to criticize GreenWin, but would like to see either some evidence for this claim, or a retraction of it.
      :-)

      Tom B.

      • GreenWin Reply

        December 13, 2011 at 3:27 am

        Tom, I understand your concern but the statement remains intact. I will however refer you to Hank Mills’ summer story on “Cheap Cold Fusion…”

        http://pesn.com/2011/07/03/9501862_Cheap_Cold_Fusion_to_Save_World_Billions/

        And a reminder that many good scientists in this field are regularly referred to as “courageous.” Courage is a laudable human trait required in the face of… threat.

      • GreenWin Reply

        December 13, 2011 at 5:06 pm

        And we should not dismiss the “phishing attack” on the Citi5 website, or repeated cyber attacks on Rossi’s site. Or the disappearance of ecatbuilder… Or Brian Josephson’s silencing or…

        Maybe the incumbent powers will simply roll over?

  40. georgehants Reply

    December 12, 2011 at 9:06 am

    • CM Edwards Reply

      December 12, 2011 at 3:21 pm

      While the neutrino bursts in question are detected a few nanoseconds before the predicted arrival time, they are not arriving before emission. So, the prediction in the old New Scientist review is not supported. However, even that still contradicts special relativity, which predicts a spacelike path for a massive particle.

      Even if this can all be settled just by plugging in a higher value for c in the second postulate of relativity, I’m happy to see it. Any loophole in relativity is potentially one step closer to a stardrive. So, this is another claim for which I am eagerly awaiting proof of reproducibility.

      Go, neutrinos, go!

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