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Set Hyperion-eCat Battle Alarm for Wednesday November 30th

November 28, 2011

The expectation bar has been set high. I hope they do not dissapoint. This from DGT’s forum:

Dear all,
We will release the expected info pre-announced on November 14th 2011, on Wednesday, November 30th 2011.
Thank you for your attention
Defkalion GT

 

[With thanks to Georgehants]

Posted by on November 28, 2011. Filed under Defkalion. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0. You can leave a response or trackback to this entry

32 Responses to Set Hyperion-eCat Battle Alarm for Wednesday November 30th

  1. CM Edwards Reply

    November 28, 2011 at 5:48 pm

    DGT From Nov. 14th: “We will release a complete outline of our developments wthin the next two weeks.”

    I await their outline with eager anticipation. With luck, they will flesh it out a little.

  2. georgehants Reply

    November 28, 2011 at 6:04 pm

    Shall I put my Champagne in the fridge, it has been in and out a few times, well yes I think I will, just in case.

    • John Dlouhy Reply

      November 28, 2011 at 6:18 pm

      Whatever you drink to drown your sorrows, I would put some of that in the fridge too. I never hurts to hedge your bets…

      • georgehants Reply

        November 28, 2011 at 6:24 pm

        Ha, John I always have some red wine for that.

  3. Shane D. Reply

    November 28, 2011 at 6:06 pm

    I like the tone. They will “release the EXPECTED info PRE-ANNOUNCED Nov 14th”.

    The expected info is a “COMPLETE OUTLINE OF OUR DEVELOPMENTS” from that 14th press release.

    There you have it, they’ve laid it on the line. It’s hard to imagine them doing this with some “imaginary technology” as LCD calls it.

  4. Dale G. Basgall Reply

    November 28, 2011 at 6:12 pm

    Hopefully they will show us a product ready for production on one of their Hyperion latest versions. A real product I can plug my shop saw into.

    They could just show us a not quite ready product for manufacturing and let us know production is only a couple months away.

    I hope they say the home models have been designed and rendered and that production will begin soon.

    Also the powder which is most likely what is important to them also, to claim stability and demonstrate it. I am looking forward to their announcement.

  5. Rick Meisinger Reply

    November 28, 2011 at 6:30 pm

    To believe that DGT is going to come though, one also has to disbelieve that what AR has said on this issue. My money is on Rossi.

    • daniel maris Reply

      November 28, 2011 at 7:16 pm

      Rick – Really – perhaps Rossi was kist mistaken in his assessment of DGT’s capabilities.

      • Rick Meisinger Reply

        November 28, 2011 at 7:43 pm

        AR and associate Christos Stremmenos are in a position to know. AR knows what technology has been transferred (AR states that no core technology has been transferred) and Christos is still on DGT’s board last I have heard. AR is in a lawsuit with DGT and has legal discovery rights.

        • corey h Reply

          November 29, 2011 at 1:43 am

          Defkalion has categorically stated that not AR nor anyone else is in court with them.

  6. Shane D. Reply

    November 28, 2011 at 6:41 pm

    For reference, this is a DGT press release from 10 Oct 2011:

    The technological breakthrough of LENR (or CANR) is no longer speculation. It is a fact that will eventually change the world’s energy problems and its sociopolitical divides through cheap, clean and green energy. The world needs LENR as a new energy source. Although change will not happen over-night, LENR will help reduce CO2 emissions, lower the cost of energy, and provide longevity to our planet’s energy needs.

    Defkalion sees its role with responsibility and asks the community at large to continue its support.

    Defkalion has:
    • Enhanced technology and engineering on Rossi’s invention or similar inventions
    • Prepared business models for international expansion
    • Established a strong network of global contacts
    • Prepared legislative and certification procedures
    • Ensured national, regional and international network in politics and business
    • Prepared global financing

    Defkalion has worked in close partnership with Andrea Rossi for a very long time to prepare a commercially viable and industrially applicable product using his invention. Defkalion invested a lot of money to evolve Rossi’s E-Cat lab prototype into its Hyperion product. Defkalion is now at the stage where its industrial prototype is ready for production.

    Defkalion has held direct business discussions with 62 interested companies who visited our offices in Greece and witnessed our work. Small industry and large energy players internationally were all impressed by our progress in technology and engineering. More are still coming. Despite this phenomenal progress, Defkalion never made promises.

    Our aim has always been to inform and demonstrate to public our progress when the final product is ready for use, thereby avoiding any speculations.

    Today, Hyperion engineering has completed version 7. We were surprised to see our old designs used in public testing. We were confused why our old designs were implemented wrongly, as well as witnessing insufficient use of instruments and testing protocols. We also identified confidential (yet shown in public) special instruments designed in collaboration with Rossi and prepared by Defkalion. These actions have already paved the way for more negative criticism (unworthy) against the inventor, which do not give credibility to his important work.

    The plethora of positive and negative comments is not helpful, as pointed out recently on the Vortex mail archive:
    (http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@es … 52357.html).

    Defkalion fully supports and endorses this technology. Our mission is to introduce this technology on a global scale, responsibly. To date, we have self-financed all R&D and business development phases without asking for a single penny from anyone (private or public). We will soon be ready to announce the results of our extensive R&D with Hyperion final products.

    Athens, October 10th, 2011
    Defkalion GT S.A.

  7. 123star Reply

    November 28, 2011 at 6:47 pm

    Again about Defkalion Green Technologies: does it really exist? Is it a Rossi double?

    My Pro & cons for its existence:
    PRO:
    -They have a nice website with forum and flash animations (http://www.defkalion-energy.com/).
    -There is a picture with Defkalion logo on a device, i.e. at least, they put an effort to stamp a logo on a metal case!
    (see http://www.tovima.gr/science/article/?aid=430840 http://www.tovima.gr/files/1/2011/11/18/Hyperion-1%5B1%5D.jpg)
    -There are some pictures with lab equipment and devices, but there is no clue of the location where they were taken, as far as I know (see the pictures at http://ecatnews.com/?p=1310).

    CON:
    -There is no office, factory, or picture of the company building, AFAIK.
    -It was incorporated recently (2011) and also the domain defkalion-energy.com was registered recently (see http://ecatnews.com/?p=1428&cpage=1#comment-9912)
    -They haven’t sold a product yet, AFAIK.

    Have you anything to add/correct on this list?
    The same question, goes for ampenergo, too. Does it really exist?

  8. John Dlouhy Reply

    November 28, 2011 at 6:53 pm

    A Python’s Full Monty?

    Rossi is fond of referring to his opponents as “snakes”. If that title is suitable for his lesser foes like Krivit or Celani, a threat the size of Defkalion could be considered a “really big snake”, one that is ready to wrap itself around poor Andrea and squeeze the life out of his business plans.

    Poised to announce a market ready device to compete with the E-Cat, Defkalion has lately stolen some of the attention away from our favorite Italian soap opera. The E-Cat demonstrations so far have left us all uncertain and wishing for more proof. With the big announcement on Wednesday, Defkalion has, at least, the chance to change that pattern. We can only hope, in the words of John Cleese, “now for something completely different!”

    • georgehants Reply

      November 28, 2011 at 7:15 pm

      John, we must remember that beyond all the theatrics and emotion lies the fact that Rossi and Defkalion have risen awareness of Cold Fusion beyond the ability of main-stream science to hide it.
      As stated earlier why with Cold Fusion fully verified does not every journal and science magazine be full of reports of any advance, just like these Cold Fusion sites that we all read and comment to.
      The press do not report, because science does not openly report to the public the true position and advantages of Cold Fusion, they are hiding it, WHY.
      I do not mean for them to have to report Rossi and Defkalion but Cold Fusion in general.

      • Eric Woudenberg Reply

        November 28, 2011 at 11:15 pm

        @georgehants: “Rossi and Defkalion have risen awareness of Cold Fusion beyond the ability of main-stream science to hide it”

        Hi George, thank you. Yes, they’ve helped bring it in to the mainstream. My only quibble is with the part where mainstream science is trying to hide it.

        I’d use Hanlon’s Razor here: “Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.” Granted there are some scientists who feel Cold Fusion is a threat (e.g. those at DoE funded projects), but I think the great bulk of scientists are still curious, and are suffering simply from herd mentality more than anything.

        Also, I think it helps to distinguish scientists from science. I would say “science”, meaning the process of investigating reality that humans have developed, is fundamentally open to new phenomena. I agree that certain scientists may not be however.

        • John Dlouhy Reply

          November 29, 2011 at 12:18 am

          Good points Eric, and I especially agree with your last one, drawing a distinction between science and scientists. Many don’t quite understand the strength of science and the scientific method apart from the failures of some who claim to follow it. Science is hard. It is against human nature in many respects. Much of what George rails against is in fact the failure of people to properly do science, not science itself.

          The idea that we can ask questions, and then by careful design answer them ourselves is just amazing. I built a van de graagg generator with a friend and while we were getting it to work we realized that the moving charged belt actually represented a current. So we stuck a meter on the ground and sure enough were able to measure it. After that, optimizing it to produce 10 inch sparks was relatively easy. That’s my small example of using the scientific method, hypothesize, then measure to confirm.

  9. daniel maris Reply

    November 28, 2011 at 7:20 pm

    I think we are definitely getting into the “put up or shut up stage”. Defkalion need to give some really convincing proof of what they have. I don’t mean handing it over to a lab or peer reviewed articles – I mean getting their device into the real world and showing us it works.

    • Roger Barker Reply

      November 28, 2011 at 7:26 pm

      Yes, I agree. I’ve been quietly confident of DGT even though they have not produced anything at all. Now you might say that is hypocritical of me given I bag Rossi for his endeavours but the facts remain that Rossi’s demos/tests have been jokes.

      • Peter Roe Reply

        November 28, 2011 at 8:07 pm

        Roger, I think that calling Rossi’s demos ‘a joke’ may be a little harsh. However, many long-term observers from the sidelines are now feeling a little battered by the failure of each successive development to be conclusive enough to trigger any kind of real shock wave in the media (as opposed to a number of lukewarm but hopeful articles scattered here and there).

        But I’m reasonably sure this can’t be an accident. Rossi is a serious and highly intelligent man, and if ‘results’ have always been left open to some alternative (fraudulant) explanation, then that, for some reason, is how he wants it. For example, there was no convincing reason at all to leave the diesel generator running during the 1MW test. The cooling fans and pumps would have required a few tens of kilowatts at the most, and could have been hooked to the building mains. Heating could have been supplied by a propane heater or similar, so the genset could have been shut down as soon as stable self sustaining operation was achieved, leaving nothing for the skeptics but idiotic hidden chemical heat sources etc. The fact that is was left running couldn’t have been and oversight – it MUST have been to provide the skeptics with what they wanted – a fraudulent ‘explanation’ (just like earlier failures to instrument properly, or cutting short a run) – even if the genset rating was in fact insufficient to provide the actual output observed.

        Rossi seems to want this story to leak out in dribs and drabs, until the cumulative weight of the evidence begins to enter the collective consciousness outside of groups such as this one. I believe he said that somewhere that he doesn’t want the introduction to be ‘disruptive’, presumably in order to minimise opposition by vested interests and the potential dangers to his own skin. I think the inclusiveness may have been his way of ensuring this, although allowing AP to attend the demo (even if they failed to report on it) admittedly does not seem to be in line with this idea.

        If Defkalion is going to go full-on with immediate or impending domestic and other product releases, it is going to be enormous fun watching the captured mainstream media morons trying to pretend nothing has happened. Well I live in hope anyway.

        • Roger Barker Reply

          November 28, 2011 at 8:17 pm

          I think you give Rossi too much credit, as if he has some master plan in mind. I think the word to describe Rossi is “cunning” but deceitfully so. If Rossi truly had a working cold fusion device there would be so many ways for him to provide conclusive evidence but at the same time milk as much profit out of it as possible.

          • LCD

            November 28, 2011 at 9:45 pm

            I think Rossi probably has some psychological disorder that when taken into account puts his behavior in perspective. I think he does have something but I think he is really scared because he doesn’t have a theory and he doesn’t really know why his ecat works. Brian Ahern’s patent shows the differences and similarities between his approach and Rossi’s and also provides some reasoning as to why Rossi may not be getting consistent results. I suggest people read it.
            http://www.sumobrain.com/patents/wipo/Amplification-energetic-reactions/WO2011123338A1.pdf

            I have a link to it on my website if you want to try to collaborate with others on replicating his methods.

          • Peter Roe

            November 29, 2011 at 9:56 am

            Tom Blakeslee said this of Rossi: “Rossi is stubborn and goes out of his way to annoy those who attack him. He knows that he will have the last laugh and enjoys letting critics dig themselves in deeper.”

            I think he is playing a strategic game that has to cover the instability issue but at the same time get him some ongoing income from what he has at the moment, and that the duality he leaves open is a part of this. He definitely has ‘issues’ but then most people do, to one extent or another. His result in eccentric behaviour, irascibility and obsession, but also seem to produce results.

            Re. Aherns patent, he certainly seems to be trying to cover all the bases – hydrogen and/or deuterium, nano-particles made from 8 different metals and all alloys of these, four catalysts, particles suspended in dielectric liquids or in sintered ceramics of three specified metal oxides, pulsed electrical stimulation, terahertz EM and even cavitation, plus presumably all permutations therof.

            But how many of these possible arrangements has he actually tested, and how many produce anything interesting? This is sort of the reverse of Rossi’s approach, where (apparent) real-world results are backed up by the sketchiest of patent apps and a vague general theory. In Aherns case it seems that his patent includes a level of detail that is clearly intended to capture any later-developed arrangement that employs any of his suggestions, and actually produces a useful amount of energy, but without having actually done so himself at this point. I hope Rossi’s development partners have hefty legal departments.

  10. Iggy Dalrymple Reply

    November 28, 2011 at 10:05 pm

    Beware of Greeks bearing grift.

  11. charles sistovaris Reply

    November 28, 2011 at 10:39 pm

    Interesting exchange in between S. Krivit & T. Blakeslee.

    http://newenergytimes.com/v2/sr/RossiECat/A-Conversation-With-Thomas-Blakeslee.shtml

    Interesting because it is the 1st times (I know of) Krivit recognizes some value to a different opinion from his. It also adds weight to the hypothesis of an unstable/unpredictable e-cat and the subsequent “evasive” – to say the least – attitude of Rossi when asked for a solid demo….

    My optimism is back. Can’t wait for the Defkalion announcement…

    • daniel maris Reply

      November 28, 2011 at 10:59 pm

      Thanks for that. A very interesting exchange.

      I am hoping Defkalion is going to come up with a practical demonstration of lengthy operation.

  12. Brad Arnold Reply

    November 28, 2011 at 11:03 pm

    Maybe a Defkalion threat will push Rossi into a different mode, to hire a PR firm and get his face out there as well as LENR technology. Surely by now Rossi has hired the people to build his manufacturing company, so he can turn his attention to being the front man for his company. Can you imagine all the free publicity he could get for LENR and his company if he went on the talk show/TV appearence circuit??

    By the way, what is particularly exciting about Defkalion is that they were saying before that they would offer a full range of LENR devices from the industrial size down to the home size. The sooner we are off the grid the better!

  13. 123star Reply

    November 28, 2011 at 11:45 pm

    E-cat technical data as of 29 november 2011
    http://ecat.com/ecat-products/ecat-1-mw/ecat-1mw-technical-data

    Thermal Output Power 1 MW
    Electrical Input Power Peak 200 kW
    Electrical input Power Average 167 kW
    COP 6
    Water Pump Pressure 4 Bar
    Water Pump Ranges 30-1500 kg/hr
    Water Input Temperature 4-85 C
    Water Output Temperature 85-120 C

    Let’s choose maximum pump speed: 1500 kg/hr is 1500/3600=0.417 kg/s.
    Say that the water is heated from 20 to 100 °C, 80 degrees difference.
    Specific heat of water 4.181 kJ/(kg*°C)
    Power required(in kilowatt, or kJ/s) = (Specific heat)*(temperature difference)*(flow in kg/s) = 4.181*80*0.417 kW = 139 kW.
    If we use the maximum temperature difference 120-4=116 we get:
    Power required= 4.181*116*0.417 = 202 kW.
    If the internal pressure of the water (due to the pump) is 4 bar, there cannot be steam even at 120 °C. Right?!? Therefore we don’t have to consider any latent heat of vaporisation.
    (see http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/boiling-point-water-d_926.html , 4 bar = about 58 psi)

    So Rossi has been honest in his data sheet, except “Thermal output” and “COP”.
    He has a COP of about 1 (not 6!), so that’s a nice electrical heater.
    Please correct me if I am mistaken.

    References:
    http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/boiling-point-water-d_926.html
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_capacity

  14. Aussie Guy Reply

    November 29, 2011 at 12:11 am

    The 1 MW plant outputs STEAM at 1 Bar. I suspect the max 4 Bar pressure of the pump has to do with the dynamics of the output energy control system and the necessary ability to flood a rector getting too hot with enough cold water to quick drop it’s temperature and to then get it back under control.

  15. Aussie Guy Reply

    November 29, 2011 at 12:21 am

    To get enough steam temperature and pressure to efficiently run a turbine, Rossi has developed the ability to generate steam at 450 deg C using a high temperature primary fluid. This would suggest he is using a steam generator / heat exchanger to do this. At that steam temperature he can use upto ~450 Bar of pressure and still get good quality steam. Go Rossi GO.

    • corey h Reply

      November 29, 2011 at 1:55 am

      he needs to switch to Supercritical-CO2 then he could fit the turbine/generator in his 1MW plant’s spare room.

  16. andreiko Reply

    November 29, 2011 at 3:59 pm

    De weerbarstigheid van de wetenschap en politiek is volkomen begrijpelijk door de economische belangen die ook voor hen op het spel staan ,gigantische projecten vallen in duigen, de nieuwe en oude economie moeten op elkaar afgestemd worden ,overheden zullen proberen te remmen, maar de geest is uit de fles en die krijgen ze er niet meer in, het circus gaat beginnen!

    Googlated by Admin (Andreiko, please do this in future – or post in English if you are able]

    The unruliness of the science and politics is perfectly understandable by the economic interests for them at the stake, huge projects are in ruins, the new and old economy must be attuned, governments will try to brake, but mind from the bottle and they get no more, the circus begin!

  17. Nixter Reply

    November 30, 2011 at 4:13 am

    What an exciting time to be alive! We may be about to witness a rebirth of our entire Planet, inconceivable changes are in motion, Rossi’s Ni-H reactor technology will soon reach a near infinite and unstoppable inertia. Scientific knowledge will be dragged along, willing or not, Richard Garwin will finally have his cup of tea, made from water boiled with energy from a “Fusion like”, reactor that operates in a manner that we cannot yet fully explain.

    Those asking for the information to be presented in a peer reviewed journal.”, were correct to do so, this is the accepted scientific methodology, but Andrea Rossi is an Engineer, his primary goal is to get this technology into civilian and Industries hands, so he can get the process started quickly and make a, (HUGE!), profit from selling them. The two camps are so far apart in intent and outcome, that they may as well come from different universes. To wait one to two years for peer reviewed scientific publication, instead of going ahead with rapid high volume production, will serve to unnecessarily delay this exciting new energy sources implementation. Build them, and let the reality of the fully functioning hardware speak for itself. The peer reviewed data will be published in due time, the idea that the reactors should not be made, or that they cannot possibly function until we can fully explain “exactly” how they work it is obviously silly and wrong, especially when you finally do have operational hardware in the field.

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