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I Fooled Defkalion Says Andrea Rossi

November 24, 2011

Not sure what to make of this. Talking of Defkalion, Andrea Rossi says that he led the company a false trail. They took the bait, thinking that he would be selling small eCats in October. In doing so, it wrong-footed them and upset their plans to present a fake version of the same. As we all know, according to AR, he has the goods and they do not. What puzzles me (among lots) is that in public, the inventor has been reasonably consistent about disagreeing with Defkalion’s small-unit strategy. The only way I can parse this apparent inconsistency is by assuming that the following statement is not true or that, while he disagreed with DGT’s way of doing things, the contract allowed them to take whatever route they desired within their territory. In other words, he publicly disagreed but planned to service their roll-out plan.

Am I missing something? One thing is certain – this is an absolute admission by AR that he engages in misdirection. So, is this recent statement a lie or is it true and he lied to Defkalion? I do not have a problem with these sort of tactics. I put great store in personal honesty but understand the need to be wily in business and politics when swimming with sharks. This confirmation of misdirection should be front and centre when we’re trying to figure out what’s going on.

We have less than a week before Defkalion put themselves on the spot. It will be interesting to see if they deliver hot air or scalding oil.

 

  • Andrea Rossi

    Dear Hampus:
    Soon, but remember that such R&D will be closed doors made and not public. I repeat: no more public tests will be made. We will make only closed doors R&D and tests for our Customers made along the test protocols agreed upon the purchasing contracts. No more information will be released until proper patent protection will be granted. Too many vultures fly around, ready to steal critic info. Look to what is going on around the Balcans: there are clowns saying they have a technology copied from us, actually they have just a moke up, waiting for the piece of info they need to make a real copy. They believed we would have been selling in October the small E-Cats, so announced they would have made a demo in october ( buying a model, disguising it as a copy made by them). But it was just a trap we made. Conclusion: from now on we will be more sealed than ever, and we will be open exclusively with our Customers.
    To put for sale the small unts we need:
    1- safety certification
    2- granted patents
    We are working on both the issues and I think they will be addressed within 1 to 2 years from now.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

[With thanks to Arian]

Posted by on November 24, 2011. Filed under Business,Defkalion,Rossi. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0. You can leave a response or trackback to this entry

71 Responses to I Fooled Defkalion Says Andrea Rossi

  1. Sojourner Soo Reply

    November 24, 2011 at 4:32 pm

    Rossi is absolutely Machiavellian. Having been put through the political meat grinder in the past in Italy, he’s obviously learned a few things over the years. Good for him. I love a good business fight. May the wiliest coyote win. I’m hoping it’s Rossi. I notice all the knives are out in the open now. Fun.

  2. John Dlouhy Reply

    November 24, 2011 at 4:45 pm

    —I Fooled Defkalion Says Andrea Rossi—

    I would say he has fooled a lot of people, present company included. The truth will eventually surface and it IS entertaining observing the events and trying to interpret them properly. I’m glad to see our fearless leader has jumped on the “Rossi misdirection” boat, although after dozens of examples of contradictions previously, I thought that boat had already sailed. Well, better late than never.

    I will say this. I was worried that the entertainment value of this saga was starting to wane after the Oct. 28 demo, but it seems to be getting its second wind. Some are comparing Rossi to Wile E Coyote, and others to the Road Runner, mee-meep! This shows just how opposite the views are from both sides of the fence. I will continue to sit up on that fence as I prefer the view from up here!

    • Marc Cleiren Reply

      November 24, 2011 at 5:22 pm

      Hi John,
      Seems you are a kindred spirit in this..

      I love technology and I love the psychosocial construction of reality, as well as personality disorders in action. I will not give any judgement on Rossi’s tormented self, but am closely following all reactions to the announcements and the potential earth-shattering invention. Being a scientist/psychologist myself, I thoroughly enjoy this unfolding drama/tragedy, and the lessons it will hold for the future. I guess that somewhere next academic year I will have brilliant material to illustrate my classes on group processes and individual behavior.

      I am up on that fence and like the view too..

      Sincerely,
      Marc Cleiren

      • John Dlouhy Reply

        November 24, 2011 at 5:47 pm

        There’s lots of room up here!

        • Nathan Hulse Reply

          November 24, 2011 at 6:46 pm

          Its almost as entertaining as a mud wrestling match between Dickie Dawkins and Richard Milton. Pass the popcorn!

          Marc, if this episode doesn’t yield enough brilliant material, at least you have the original Pons and Fleischmann saga to fall back on…

  3. A. Goumy Reply

    November 24, 2011 at 5:24 pm

    I believe it’s the first time AR accuses openly Defkalion of trying to steal his technology. So, it’s now an open war between both parties. The show is more and more fascinating!

  4. 123star Reply

    November 24, 2011 at 5:42 pm

    I think that the whole Defkalion Green Technologies is an invention of Rossi. It appears (source http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2011/11/12/swedish-public-radio-turns-spotlight-on-lewan-and-ny-teknik/#comment-2514) that

    1)Ampenergo.com domain was registered the same day that PRAXEN DEFKALION the so called parent company of Defkalion Green Technologies was incorporated in Cyprus (28-DEC-2010).
    2)defkalion-energy.com domain was registered on 13-JAN-2011 one day before the first public demonstration of the ecat (14-JAN-2011)

    I think that all this is an over-complicated plot hatched by Rossi! We should rather discuss how he could have devised a better scamming plan!

  5. Sojourner Soo Reply

    November 24, 2011 at 6:05 pm

    You people are hilarious. Business wars are not fought over “scams.” Give it up, already. It’s unfortunate you don’t put your talented imaginations to work writing fiction or revisionist history. You all seem very capable.

    • Stephen Reply

      November 26, 2011 at 12:37 am

      “…It’s unfortunate you don’t put your talented imaginations to work writing fiction or revisionist history….” What make you so sure of that, you have not managed to track us all down and get our backgrounds on the ‘Net yet?

  6. Thicket Reply

    November 24, 2011 at 6:09 pm

    It all makes sense when you accept that Rossi is a compulsive and habitual liar. Inconsistencies make zero difference to him. He can and does contradict himself, and does so with a straight face. Rossi is incapable of discriminating between truth and lies. He impulsively says things that are total nonsense, and does it with conviction. He makes things up as he goes. A fundamental part of executing the ‘Big Lie’ is that most people are incapable of accepting that someone could be so obvious and brazen about their lies. There is no sublety with Rossi. The whole contradictory mess is wide open for everyone to see. Nevertheless, many people won’t or can’t see it. They analyze minutiae trying to make some sense of what explicitly makes no sense at all.

    Rossi has gone ballistic a few times, most notably with Defkalion. There’s no one as indignantly vocal as a habitual liar who actually was telling the truth for once. Defkalion knows nothing of Rossi’s ‘secret’. There is no ‘secret’, so Defkalion doesn’t have it. Rossi couldn’t give the ‘secret’ to Defkalion because it doesn’t exist. No wonder Rossi is ticked. Instead of paying Rossi money, Defkalion refused to pay and set off on their own cold fusion campaign. Defkalion is muscling in on Rossi’s scam.

    • daniel maris Reply

      November 24, 2011 at 10:41 pm

      Thicket –

      Well you didn’t take up my previous invitation which I now augment:

      Focardi co-operated with Rossi for four years developing a number of prototypes. Is Focardi deluded or demented or deceiving or deceived?

      As for Defkalion, we should know by Tuesday next week what exactly they are claiming and what their evidence is to back up their claims. It seems to me there might be something behind their technology.

      • Tony Reply

        November 24, 2011 at 11:25 pm

        Deleted by Admin.

        Defining experienced scientists as old, deluded men grasping at the last straws of their careers as an argument is stupid – it says more about you than them. It also brings down the tone of the discussion.

        That’s twice. Please read the guidelines linked in the menu.

        Paul

        • Sojourner Soo Reply

          November 25, 2011 at 4:10 am

          This post was positively hateful. I’m appalled at the disrespect for Focardi. Simply appalled. You go too far with this. You need to be outed, too.

      • Thicket Reply

        November 25, 2011 at 1:22 pm

        Daniel

        I responded in detail to your question about Focardi. I suggest you go back and read it. It describes in detail why your question is intellectually dishonest.

        Also, you didn’t ask the question of me. You asked it of Tony2.

  7. Sojourner Soo Reply

    November 24, 2011 at 6:22 pm

    Thicket: You’re confusing being Italian with being a sociopathic liar. Rossi’s behaviour is perfectly normal, perfectly Italian, and perfectly human. People who perpetrate “Big Lies” are more apt to have emotion deficits, not emotion surpluses. They lack “affect,” their faces are devoid of emotion, they lack passion, etc. They are generally cold, calculating, and always have their emotions under control, as befits “control” freaks. Take a look at our Prime Minister. Now, there’s somebody perfectly capable of executing a “Big Lie.” I bet you support him, too.

  8. Dale G. Basgall Reply

    November 24, 2011 at 6:33 pm

    Here we go again, another mary-go-round, just another episode of a ” we were led to believe story ” . Re reading my posts here now and the ones I have posted on this site, recites this story. Not the story for the validity of the powdered fuel, but for the more important story of a typical independent CEO (Rossi) claiming to be an inventor that is doing this story simply to be monitarily enriched.

    The principle issue here is dishonesty, for whatever reason leads others to believe things that are not so. How many times does someone have to deceive you before the trust dies out, trust in being told a simple story that isn’t infested with greed and crap. There is no legit reason to deceive in this science issue.

    Rossi is a sick man right now, obviously due to his past experiences, and lies are not a funny game thing.

    Rossi had no obligation at all to tell the general public about his new e-cat home model, and picture it before it ever existed, but he did. He piled in deceptive tests and disclosures. Rossi had no working e-cat, just the cool name and some bells and whistles existed. Rossi used information from others to advance his own claimed invention which is not disclosed. How much black can be claimed to become white in this story, who knows?

    So Defkalion is doing the only thing it can do as a manufacturing company to shake a flaky inventor from it’s backside. This is a story for Holywood, just what we need now in real time. If this story turnes out to be as it is obvious today one wonders what other facts could be distorted.

    No harmful emissions? No Gammas? No Fusion? kind of obvious accompanied with no disclosures of a product. Do we the people want the real true answer regarding LENR, or just want to continue on with our sites and information we find later is no more than a very interesting story?

    Heres a story with possibilities:
    This technology is far more advanced than any of us are led to believe. It was reproduced from reverse engineering many years ago. There is an engine using this technology existing and in a delta winged aircraft but of course it really doesn’t exist, right. Ha, that’s what others have “led us to believe”, like our Italian friends.

    • 123star Reply

      November 24, 2011 at 7:36 pm

      I am from Italy, should I be ashamed? :P

      • Stephen Reply

        November 26, 2011 at 12:43 am

        Lamborghini et al. Just these cars have erased past and future shame from the soul of the Italian people for eons to come. Be proud. And for the shoes too.

  9. DvH Reply

    November 24, 2011 at 6:38 pm

    here is a thing about the skeptics and the believers: so far, what is known is, let’s say ‘discussable/questionable’ – thats whats going on here all the time.
    i am making a list of events/facts, which can convince me to say ‘ok, i am wrong, the believers and AR were right from the beginning’. i am not asking for the secret formula.
    can the believers write a such list of events/facts which would make them say ‘ok, now i have my doubts’ – or ‘ yes, it was a fake’? Something smaller than AR on live-tv admitting ‘yes i cheated you all’ ??

    • Sojourner Soo Reply

      November 24, 2011 at 7:08 pm

      I haven’t yet seen a single thing that makes me think Rossi is “cheating” anybody. Not a single darn thing. Nothing. Nada. Zip. Zilch. When I see such a thing, I’ll point it out. But, so far, nothing. And worse, despite all the efforts of the skeptics, they’ve not coughed up a single convincing “fact” that makes me think otherwise. On the contrary, I find them to be bigger liars than I could ever imagine Rossi to be. They skew, misrepresent, delete, or otherwise ignore facts. That works against them, not Rossi.

      • Dale G. Basgall Reply

        November 24, 2011 at 8:24 pm

        Soo; your statement-”I haven’t yet seen a single thing that makes me think Rossi is “cheating” anybody. Not a single darn thing. Nothing. Nada. Zip. Zilch.” makes me question as to who of any of us posting on this site said that Rossi was cheating anyone?

        Which came first? The skeptic or the illusion Rossi gave all of us ? Someone told us (Rossi) that there was a new product that does cold fusion and without evidence of that we then became a little sketpical of the story we were led to believe as the months past.

        It seems that an open mind is what we have kept and not as you state, the liars we have become. The burden of proof is on Rossis shoulder to substantiate his claims and not the burden or the skeptical minded as you state, regarding the validity of what comes from the claimed inventors mouth in words only, which cannot be factually substantiated.

        I am evaluating your statement from the perspective of a person being told that devices existed a year ago, and I have no factual evidence whatsoever today that what the claimed inventor is stating is actually reality and exists in a three dimensional form.

        I take it personally when someone uses names to describe people as you did, I don’t judge that your bad for that at all, just hopes that you will evaluate this situation un biased and at face value. That would be more becoming of a scientistic overview.

        • Sojourner Soo Reply

          November 24, 2011 at 9:34 pm

          Sorry, but certain skeptics have called Rossi a liar many times. Those same skeptics deliberately misstate and misrepresent historical facts. That makes them liars. I don’t know about you because, to be honest, I don’t read your posts very often, Dale. So, I’m not apologizing for my use of the word “liars.”

          • John Dlouhy

            November 25, 2011 at 12:54 am

            I never call Rossi a liar, I just point out his lies.

      • Stephen Reply

        November 26, 2011 at 12:48 am

        This might be because your technological background is sorely lacking. Rossi is not offering a new philosophical concept to the world, but a chunk of hardware. Of all of us, you should still be sitting on the fence.

  10. Sojourner Soo Reply

    November 24, 2011 at 6:38 pm

    Try not to lose it, okay? It makes me nervous. lol

  11. Tom Baccei Reply

    November 24, 2011 at 7:07 pm

    I would not recommend that any of the folks contributing on this page take up poker. Rossi is playing poker. It does not mean that he has no hand. Thicket folds, SoSoo calls with a pair of eights. Rossi is on the button, and is managing his table image in a very clever way. My play is that he is on a semi-bluff, where he has a very good drawing hand, but not yet the nuts. Question is, “what are the pot odds?” And of course he is not the only one at the table, like Defkalion and Miley and Chan (now! wow!) and Ahern.

    So I would caution all of you. A magician distracts, and deflects your attention. ROssi is only PART of the magic show, and he is, in my opinion, beyond a doubt, the distraction. So, if you want to know where the dove comes from, don’t watch the flashing cape, but the magicians other hand.

  12. Sojourner Soo Reply

    November 24, 2011 at 7:10 pm

    Hey, I never call with a pair of eights after seeing the flop. Unless I catch something, I fold. Speaking of which, I think I’ll go blow some playdough over at PokerStars right now. :)

    • Tony Reply

      November 25, 2011 at 12:44 am

      SS,

      I’d go all in against this with a pair of deuces. You have to see that all of this latest stuff is more smoke and mirrors, right?

      You’re a smart gal. You would never, ever, ever in a million years bet with this, playdough or not. AR is already stringing the rubes out with the 2 year delay in the home power unit (which does not exisit and never will) and the promise that the big money will be here. He can make up any number of sales for his 13 MW plants (what a farce that is on the face of it) as long as none of the customers are are ever revealed. Please remember that this is the same guy who said he had a plant running a factory heating system for two years. Two freakin’ years and it never made headlines? The company that supplied power to that plant would’ve been the first ones to shout about it since they would have noticed a significant drop in energy usage at the plant and would have immediately sent inspectors out to look for meter tampering. AR can not direct you to this company and that alone screams fraud.

      You are all good people. I am, too, but you have to see this for what it is. Get a picture of the factory where these things are being made. No patent issue there. Have a paying customer step forward and announce that they are they are the vanguard of the new energy revolution.

      If this was real there would already be a Virgin Energy listed and Branson would be smacking his lips at the trillions to be made.

      At last check, I see Virgin Galactic but no Virgin Energy. Seems like one of the most astute business guys on the planet believes there is more money to be made shuttling folks into LEO than buying into a revolutionary LENR business.

      Tony2

  13. Roger Barker Reply

    November 24, 2011 at 7:15 pm

    Rossi continues to contradict himself. Let’s see what DGT come up with early next week.

    • Pekka Janhunen Reply

      November 24, 2011 at 7:50 pm

      Well, when I saw “But it was just a trap we made. “, I thought it meant that there was some trap that Rossi had “made” i.e. cleared through. His English is a problem sometimes. What do Italians think?

      • Sojourner Soo Reply

        November 24, 2011 at 8:17 pm

        It simply means they “set a trap” for DGT.

    • Pekka Janhunen Reply

      November 24, 2011 at 8:22 pm

      Although I must say that resolving that sentence linguistically either way doesn’t make Rossi’s theory as a whole much more sensible. It doesn’t make sense that someone could buy from Rossi only to sell again, and somehow not get caught and make profit.

  14. Anapopei Reply

    November 24, 2011 at 8:02 pm

    I suggest that Defkalion removes their references to Rossi’s patent, patent applications and ecat tests on their homepage and that they re-write their “White Paper”. It seems a bit..eh… unprofessional to forget this when things are as they are. Besides this, my guess is that Rossi is right – Defkalion does not have anything, they are just pretending.

    • Sojourner Soo Reply

      November 24, 2011 at 8:31 pm

      Nah. They have it, via Stremmenos. He just won’t admit it, because it’s a betrayal of his word to his UNIBO friends and colleagues, and Rossi. I’m sure Rossi realizes this, but sometimes it’s hard to face the fact you’ve been betrayed by people you trust. It calls into question Focardi, too, as far as Rossi is concerned. If Rossi were to admit to himself the possibility that Focardi told Stremmenos, then the whole little group falls under more than a cloud of suspicion. Of course, Focardi knows too, but it suits his purposes to deny it, for a lot of reasons. Levi, I’m not too sure about, but odds are he knows too. So much intrigue. Sometimes you need to tell yourself a few lies, in order to keep the peace. It’s sort of like a marriage, eh? :)

      • Anapopei Reply

        November 24, 2011 at 8:36 pm

        Both Rossi and Defkalion tend to lie. Rossi is the only one of them who, so far, has said anything that turned out to be true. I’m with Rossi on this.

  15. Peter Roe Reply

    November 24, 2011 at 8:30 pm

    While we are waiting to find out, here is an interesting article on cold fusion and cheap/free energy in general – and how it might be a very bad thing!
    Mike Adams, Natural News:
    http://www.naturalnews.com/026116_energy_free_population.html

    • Nathan Hulse Reply

      November 24, 2011 at 10:46 pm

      What would Malthus make of free/cheap energy? I think the author may be falling foul of FUD. Population growth since the industrial revolution obvious hasn’t simply been driven by increase availability of energy. What about the Haber process, poverty and lack of education in women, for example? Personally, I’m not a technological optimist – not by a long shot – but given the recent warnings from the IEA and the scenarios associated with a 4C, or even 6C increase in global mean temperature, is it not better to grab the opportunity with both hands?

      • John Dlouhy Reply

        November 25, 2011 at 1:30 am

        I think Malthus would understand that increased productivity would permit the population to continue growing until it reaches the next limiting factor, whatever that might be. It wouldn’t be arable land limits because vertical farming would have become viable. I suppose disease, of people directly, or of food crops indirectly, has always resurfaced as a brake on human growth throughout history. Of course there is always war “uhuh, what is it good for, absolutely nothing” except reducing population and levels of wealth, its pretty good for that.

        I personally believe that energy is the fundamental basis of almost all of our wealth. Increased wealth in a society is usually accompanied by an increase in the level of education (although it sometimes seems America is challenging that notion) and with higher education comes lower population growth. It could be, that the next limiting factor is actually the wealth effect as second and third world countries are empowered, and their newly educated masses opt for smaller families. I mean, who really wants children when you have an accountant that can tell you what they really cost? (I assume your smart enough I don’t have to add smiley faces when I’m joking…)

        • Nathan Hulse Reply

          November 25, 2011 at 3:53 pm

          “I personally believe that energy is the fundamental basis of almost all of our wealth. Increased wealth in a society is usually accompanied by an increase in the level of education (although it sometimes seems America is challenging that notion) and with higher education comes lower population growth. It could be, that the next limiting factor is actually the wealth effect as second and third world countries are empowered, and their newly educated masses opt for smaller families.”

          If LDCs follow the same trend as developed nations… A technological leap could alter the pattern of population dynamics once again, but I don’t buy the notion that free/cheap energy almost certainly implies a Malthusian catastrophe, as that article suggests. I would agree that it is not unreasonable to contend that – given the population dynamics of wealthy, technologically advanced societies – free/cheaper energy might stabilise global population.

          “I mean, who really wants children when you have an accountant that can tell you what they really cost?”

          Ahhh, a petit-bourgeoise pandemic of technical illiteracy and low fertility… Hark, a utopian future awaits!

  16. Sojourner Soo Reply

    November 24, 2011 at 8:59 pm

    • admin Reply

      November 24, 2011 at 9:09 pm

      Thanks, So Soo. That link is already posted here:

      http://ecatnews.com/?p=1412

      Keep them coming, though. I do appreciate the collective power of the group.

      Paul

      • Sojourner Soo Reply

        November 24, 2011 at 9:40 pm

        I missed it the first time, then. I’m still waiting for a Canadian article to appear, but so far not a word. There’s a guy on my FB page who’s posted links about Rossi’s E-cat on our Energy Minister, Joe Oliver’s, FB page. They’ve all been deleted, seven times now. So much for that whole “free speech” thing with government ministers. That’s the tarsands nonsense for you. He’ll keep posting the stories, I’m sure. We’re persistent here in Canada when we’re trying to get our government’s attention. Or when we’re in the mood to just bug the hell outta them. :)

        • H. Visscher Reply

          November 24, 2011 at 11:15 pm

          I am also still waiting for a response from CBC in regard to the email I’ve send them…

          • Sojourner Soo

            November 24, 2011 at 11:31 pm

            I had no idea you were also Canadian, H. You should “friend” Joe Oliver and bug him, too.

      • Greywolf1943 Reply

        November 25, 2011 at 5:24 am

        Yes Admin… But SSoo link had “comments” and some were from Mayyugo… It was fun to read again the same regurgiteted crapola, of how Rossi failed to give a demo unit for test to reputable university, scientists, schools, MIT, the navy, the army etc… etc…

  17. Loop Reply

    November 24, 2011 at 11:39 pm

    Few things to mention, by the EU law Rossi were breaking the law if this story is lie that he will be selling the 10KW units to the customers.
    Not only that he made announcements of that plan but he started to collect the names, addressees and etc from the people.
    Telling to the public now, that he didn’t had intention to sell any 10kw unit and that he made up the story just to foll the Defkalion is the bigger lie than if we found out in the future that E-cat story is a complete lie, because you have right to make lies if you didn’t take the money or take any direct interest into the customers.
    Taking the customers information he bounded to semi-contract and its enough for sentence to jail, it want be long sentence 2 years max, but he could be processed for that one.

    I hope that he didn’t fooled the people with the 10kw units.

    The second thing is that I think that if this E-cat story is not the lie, the idea of making only the big units is just partially the thing which would help the people and the planet.

    The only hope for the humanity is that people could get the small units in their hands for their personal usage in order to make the people independent from the governments and from the corporations.

    This planet said enough is enough to the corporations and governments.

    • Stephen Reply

      November 26, 2011 at 12:56 am

      “…the customers information he bounded to semi-contract and its enough for sentence to jail…” What is the legal definition of a “semi-contract”, I dare ask???

    • DvH Reply

      November 26, 2011 at 1:37 pm

      the announcement of AR to produce and sell small ecats to customers is not much more than a ‘statement of intention’. for what would you sue him (whom?) if there is no customer ecat at the end of 2013 ? giving the name to the non-binding waiting-list is volunteerly.
      would AR sell the customer ecats? or some company? what kind of ecats?
      everything is too vague – i dont see the waiting-list as an evidence or counter-evidence for anthing – i see it as part of the scenery

  18. Aussie Guy Reply

    November 25, 2011 at 12:19 am

    I have not found any strange behavior in my commercial dealings with Rossi. I totally understand and accept what he asks of his customers and he accepts my requirements on him. I know he works 16 hours a day as I do (if needed) as there are about 8 hours a day when there is no almost immediate email response. The commercial offerings and terms he has made to me, TOTALLY eliminate any chance of fraud. I agree that he is wasting his time engaging type kickers and those in sheep’s clothing asking for tests when all they really seek is to steal his IP.

    AG

    • Don Witcher Reply

      November 25, 2011 at 5:22 am

      A bit of sanity in this madness from a guy who has some facts. Thanks AG

  19. H. Hansson Reply

    November 25, 2011 at 12:22 am

    Note that Greece people are anything but stupid (they are lazy and work-shy). I find it hard to believes that 20 Greece engineers for years have been working closely to prepare a production with Rossi without gaining any knowledge of the internal operation of the eCat.

    Next week we will learn more about this. Stay tune..

  20. AH Reply

    November 25, 2011 at 12:33 am

    Michael McKubre has interesting info about an old eCat demo.

    His slide……
    Ampenerco Run II
    – September 25, 2009, New Hampshire
    – 64 liters H2O
    – Tin 23 C, Tout 46 C, time 4 hours
    – Average Pin <40 W, Pout ~400 W, Gain ~10

    His words……
    "People that I know and trust have stood in front of Rossi's reactor and come away convinced that it really is doing more or less what Rossi claims. This includes my ex-Program Manager at DARPA — very very intelligent man. … Good friends of mine." … "This [Ampenergo Run II] test was witnessed by good friend of mine – also a very smart guy."

    Part 6/8 of his presentation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3N3dWlIPUQ

    • Eric Woudenberg Reply

      November 25, 2011 at 2:51 am

      Thanks for that AH. McKubre is one of the most trusted CF research scientists IMHO. He’s conducted many positive excess heat experiments at a major lab (SRI) and appears to be very careful in his work and statements.

      So, based on chain of trust transitivity (Me <- McKubre <- McKubre's trusted friend(s) <- Rossi's Demo), I'm confident Rossi's eCat is for real.

      But, as McKubre says, he hasn't had any luck being able to get an eCat to run tests on at SRI.

      Who else is on tenterhooks waiting for DGT's news in the next few days?

  21. OnTheWaterfront Reply

    November 25, 2011 at 1:32 am

    Rossi didn’t fool Defkalion, he is Defkalion, the “company” was conjured up to give him more credibility, just like the rest of is shell corporations (leonardo, ampenrgo, etc)

    The Ampenergo.com domain was registered the same day that PRAXEN DEFKALION the so called parent company of Defkalion Green Technologies was incorporated in Cyprus (28-DEC-2010).
    http://www.drcor.mcit.gov.cy/portal/page/portal/Eforos/dttSearch_en?cn=DEFKALION

    I would also point out that the defkalion-energy.com domain was registered on 13-JAN-2011 one day before the first public demonstration of the ecat (14-JAN-2011).

    • 123star Reply

      November 25, 2011 at 9:59 am

      Oh! I posted the same info some hours ago citing you as the source (I put a link to Krivit’s blog).
      So, do you think Rossi’s plot is over-complicated? I mean what would you have done differently if you were to play the rogue part??

      Cheers!

      • OnTheWaterfront Reply

        November 25, 2011 at 1:55 pm

        I would have used a Chinese front company, huge manufacturing base and little publicly available information.

        Rossi seems to have a habit of choosing names for his shell corporations that are similar to real corporations, I would assume this is done in order to create credibility\confusion. Take the Leonardo Corporation which on their website gives the impression that they are a subsidiary of a corporation named EON srl. Well EON srl is not a company as far as I can tell, but E.ON srl is a large European corporation, and Leonardo Corporation (A New Hampshire corporation) it seems is nothing more than a bad webpage with a bogus address and phone number. This brings me to Leonardo Technologies Inc which is an Ohio corporation originally named USA Nuclear Laser that changed their name to Leonardo Technologies Inc, they are a real company with some government contracts, Rossi’s name is nowhere to be seen in relation to this company, and several news reports I have read seem to be getting the two companies mixed up.
        (Leonardo Technologies Inc Articles of incorporation can be found here)
        http://www2.sos.state.oh.us/pls/bsqry/f?p=100:1:4404192179223582

        (Also Leonardo Corps Articles of incorporation say nothing about EON srl)
        http://www.sos.nh.gov/imaging/11185327.pdf

        • Stephen Reply

          November 26, 2011 at 1:00 am

          You should really not be telling the magician’s tricks, they’ll get angry.

        • DvH Reply

          November 26, 2011 at 1:53 pm

          its not so easy to succesfully install a complicated mockup in the days of google…
          on the other hand, some kind of public information is needed, it wont be trusted when it’s too mysterious and hidden.
          and everything could be so simple and transparent if it where real…
          an interesting question is: was is all planned like this from the beginning? or is it adjusted as things evolve? is AR the mastermind? is there some spin-doctor in background?

          • Stephen

            November 28, 2011 at 11:53 pm

            never mind that, just keep looking at the left hand…

  22. Matthew Reply

    November 25, 2011 at 3:41 am

    One thing you got to admit about Rossi is the fact that he can play a good game. The guy is intelligent and could easily play us all for fools. The guy’s likely laughing his backside off tonight!

  23. Matthew Reply

    November 25, 2011 at 4:45 am

    I found this very interesting about Andrea rossi’s past. I won’t be doing business or taking this man seriously at all. Entertaining, yes, but NOT trustworthy!

    January 8, 1992: Rossi indicted with 8 others, based on false invoices related to building a factory. [Italian] [English]

    April 12, 1992: Rossi found guilty, sentenced to 4 months, suspended, for illegal transport, storage, but acquitted on illegal dumping. [Italian] [English]

    March 24, 1993: Rossi sentenced to 8 months in prison, suspended, for violating the rules related to waste disposal. [Italian] [English]

    March 9, 1994: Rossi’s Petrol Dragon company forced to shut down over toxic waste issues. According to the story, there was no sign of Rossi actually converting wast into fuel, and one of his customers had claimed to be purchasing the fuel from Rossi well over a year after Rossi’s plant had been shut down. [Italian] [English]

    March 28, 1995: Another story describing the industrial waste left in silos by Rossi’s company, Petrol Dragon, which had supposedly been converted into fuel. [Italian] [English]

    March 29, 1995: Background of Rossi’s jewelery business, and the charges of fraud related to phony gold shipments. [Italian] [English]

    March 30, 1995: Rossi and four others accused of fake invoices for sale of tens of kilos of gold.” [Italian] [English]

    April 6, 1995: story about charges of money laundering and tax evasion related to false billing for the transfer of 46 billion ingots of gold (2,323 lbs.). [Italian] [English]

    May 24, 1995: Rossi arrested for “criminal association aimed at the false invoicing and tax evasion.” [Italian] [English]

    January 25, 1996: Rossi complains about the loss of Petrol Dragon, claims innocence. [Italian] [English]

    February 20, 1996: Preliminary hearing on gold fraud charges. [Italian] [English]

    April 25, 1996: Article with Rossi’s boasts of a process to convert waste into fuel, and description of the warehouses storing the unprocessed waste. [Italian] [English]

    September 25, 1996: Article about criminal conspiracy to commit fraud and false tax invoices, along with five accomplices. Rossi claimed to have shipped “60 billion” (Lira?) of gold which didn’t exist. [Italian] [English]

    March 19, 1997: Rossi’s conviction for illegal storage and disposal of toxic waste was upheld by the Court of Appeals. [Italian] [English]

    May 23, 1997: Rossi sentenced to 2 years, 8 months for tax fraud. He created fictitious invoices between four companies he managed. [Italian] [English]

    February 24, 1998: Two of Rossi’s employees get plea deal. [Italian] [English]

    October 23, 1998: Article about the cleanup efforts from the toxic waste sites left by Rossi’s company. [Italian] [English]

    June 1, 2000: Described as “Fugitive in the U.S.”, Rossi is arrested in Rome for aggravated fraud and bankruptcy fraud” Accused of being “on the run” for about a year. Accused of leaving “dozens of stores in Northern Italy overflowing [with] industrial sewage.” [Italian] [English]

    October 20, 2000: Rossi sentenced to 8 years for fraudulent bankruptcy. [Italian] [English]

    October 19, 2003: Article about how Rossi’s customers are having to pay millions of Euros to pay for the cleanup of the toxic waste dump sites left by Rossi’s company. [Italian] [English]

    November 27, 2004: Rossi acquitted on toxic waste dumping charges. 41 million Euros were spent to clean up the waste dump left by Rossi’s company. [Italian] [English]

    Conclusions:

    Rossi was convicted for fraud related to building a factory in southern Italy (apparently trying to claim earthquake-related subsidies).
    Rossi was convicted of dumping toxic waste, as well as conspiracy and tax fraud, along with a number of others. Parts of this conviction were eventually overturned. It’s not clear whether this included the conspiracy and tax fraud, or just the dumping.
    There was never any indication that Rossi was actually converting waste into oil. It appears that this was a scam to launder money. The waste was simply stored and eventually dumped.
    Rossi was convicted of fraud related to shipping gold internationally. This had nothing to do with his convictions related to Petrol Dragon. Apparently, Rossi had a thriving jewelery business while he was committing the gold shipping fraud.
    Rossi was convicted of fraud related to the bankruptcy of a company that was involved with Petrol Dragon. This resulted in an 8 year jail sentence.
    After that, Rossi appears to drop off the radar in the Italian press until he shows up with his E-Cat.

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2811976/posts?page=20#20

    • Adam Reply

      November 25, 2011 at 9:54 am

      All old news Matthew.

      Anyone following the ecat & Rossi for a while are well aware of this.

      • DvH Reply

        November 25, 2011 at 10:20 am

        the list might explain why major news-channels are a little shy to report about ecat. they find this when they do a background check of AR. and they cannot simply ignore it. should they include it in the news-report? so, the best option is to sit and wait what happens.

      • Stephen Reply

        November 26, 2011 at 1:05 am

        …And are very busy keeping their eyes shut, their hands over their ears, while yelling “I CAN’T HEAR YOU LALALALALALALALA!!!”

        I wonder if the customer (“…one of his customers had claimed to be purchasing the fuel from Rossi well over a year after Rossi’s plant had been shut down…”) was a Colonel working for NATO?

      • JDS Reply

        November 26, 2011 at 3:39 am

        Not old news to me !
        This is very useful information.
        If E-Cat is real then it would appear to me that Rossi has ‘lifted it’ from other scientists.

    • DvH Reply

      November 25, 2011 at 10:03 am

      well, quite an impressive collection. some might see it as an obstacle to take AR and his moves serious, some might see it as historical fact, that government, courts and oil-industry try since many years to suppress AR’s break-through.

  24. Bernie Koppenhofer Reply

    November 25, 2011 at 8:32 am

    You “forgot” to add this little bit of detail about your Google searches:

    “Note that sometimes Google Translate translates “Andrea Rossi” into “Andrew Smith”

  25. Thicket Reply

    November 25, 2011 at 1:31 pm

    Matthew

    A good summary reminding us of Rossi’s past. As usual, there is someone who dismisses this as being ‘old news’ as if that’s some kind of justification to minimize the information.

    It says a lot about human behaviour when large numbers of people assign credibility to Rossi’s cold fusion claims. The guy is a hardened, experienced fraudster. He’s not even very good at it, given his convictions and jail time. Yet there is a collective ‘naa-naa-naa, I don’t hear you’ chanting from believers thinking that this con-man has somehow discovered the technological breakthrough that will solve the world’s energy issues.

    • Sojourner Soo Reply

      November 25, 2011 at 6:18 pm

      Thicket: You know darn well the only reason Rossi had legal difficulties in Italy with Petroldragon is because the Italian government passed legislation making the by-products of his waste-to-fuel technology “toxic waste.” Governments often do things like this, when trying to protect and safeguard other interests, for whom Rossi’s technology may have been perceived as a threat. There is no story here. Rossi defrauded no one. You know it, too. Unless one can defraud oneself? Anyway, beyond that, at least Rossi’s keeps on trying to find alternative sources of energy. I expect before this fight is over, he might well be found on the wrong side of some nation’s law somewhere, once more. That isn’t proof that Rossi is a scam artist; it’s proof that governments are filled with corporate fascists.

      • Stephen Reply

        November 26, 2011 at 1:09 am

        “…That isn’t proof that Rossi is a scam artist; it’s proof that governments are filled with corporate fascists…” Chinese parents kill baby girls, so that must be a proof that women are evil, right? Absurdity abounds today.

  26. Jonny English Reply

    November 26, 2011 at 4:08 pm

    Rossi was setup for a fall in Italy, to be honest everybody and his dog avoids paying tax in Italy and avoiding paying duty on gold is not regarded as a cardinal sin. Anyway his waste treatment plants turned crap into fuel oil. One has to understand that in italy the largest source of crap is the Mafia itself. They run the rubbish collection big time. It was not appreciated when Rossi began to turn Crap into Fuel oil by the mafia that rossi would not cut them in on it. So the rest is history. Rossi was procecuted for having toxic untreatable waste mixed in with his treatable stuff when an inspector came around. Obviously a couple of mafia types thought it would be funny throwing untreatable waste into his waste pile to recieve the roth of the mafia sponsored authorities. This is what made Rossi leave for the new world..
    Rossi’s principle problem as i see it is that he has no prior art, cannot protect his patent as it is not worth the paper its written on. This does not mean to say that he has not got anything, on the contary , i believe he has , and what is more, no one enters into a large investment with rossi with the intention of manufacturing if you do not know what manufacturing involves. Any production line will require specialised machines and processes. These have to be costed and understood for in any business plan to hold water. it is therefore logical that for Defkalion to plan to manufacture they would have been told what processes had to be completed to produce a working kernal. If you have you own team of scientists working on the problem and being given the clue of what manufacturing proceses are required will inadvertintly give you the Rossi secret. So Rossi is telling the truth when he says he did not tell the greeks , but then again the greeks are not stupid. To produce in any quantity you need to know what the components are on you production line. The Greeks have the upper hand tho..they actually employ staff qualified enough to find, understand and improve anything Rossi may have stumbbled accross. One notes that the latest demo was a rip off of a MK3 Defkalion design. Defkalion now states that they are on mk7. Anyone investing in rossi must ask themselves ( asuming its all real) how protected is my investment? Unfortunately Rossi has made what was a golden investment opportunity in him now a dim risky enterprise..No one wants to invest in prop powered aircraft when a jet engine is around the corner..

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